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View Full Version : How popular is this game? Or more importantly, the modern Ph



Pelican
Jan 6, 2007, 02:08 AM
It never seemed like a ton of people played PSO back in either the DC or cube/Xbox days...I was pleasantly surprised at the announcement of PSU both because it seemed like Sega had plummeted as a company and because I never thought the game was terribly successful.

Now my question to you all is...how popular do you think PSU is currently? I just got this game last night and I'm already in love with it just like I was back when I first got PSO. I would hate for Sega to immediately drop support for the game after a few months if not many people were playing.

What do you guys think?

Dj_SkyEpic
Jan 6, 2007, 02:12 AM
Long term fans of the series of Phantasy Star would love it. MMORPG players would keep it as their second life, considering another game would be their first.

On a serious note... This game is very very good. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif-b -b

JaiBlue
Jan 6, 2007, 02:16 AM
I think sega will support this game until about 2020.

MayLee
Jan 6, 2007, 02:20 AM
That's a long time. o.o

Sinue_v2
Jan 6, 2007, 03:01 AM
Long term fans of the series of Phantasy Star would love it.

Not necessairly... while I do like PSU, playing it comes with the constant feeling of a knife in my back slowly twisting. It feels like they're humping the glory of the old series (as well as PSO) for a quick buck. Worse, they're treating the PS franchise in much the same way they've been treating the Sonic series. Many old PS fans gave up on the franchise with PSO - and PSU has lost yet another wave of long-time fans... many of who won't be back until the original development team is.

I'll most likely stick with it - but I will always have mixed feelings about it, and I'll never shake the tendancy to wonder what PSU could have been... what SHOULD have been.

imfanboy
Jan 6, 2007, 03:33 AM
"Their latest games are like the videos terrorists release, with your favorite characters draped in rags, abused and humiliated."
- Penny Arcade on Sega


Kind of sums it up for me. they used to be great. Now, they're just riding on the past. -_- Ah well. I still like PSU, it's just... well... missing that je ne se quois something.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: imfanboy on 2007-01-06 00:35 ]</font>

-Shimarisu-
Jan 6, 2007, 03:48 AM
Actually with the exception of the first game, I thought the entire series of original RPGs was lacklustre at best.

Back then I edited a popular zine for import RPGs. I played LITERALLY 70 or so of them. Compared to Ys? Dragon quest 3 onwards? Final Fantasy 4, 5 and 6? Dragon Slayer Legend of Heroes? Shining Force (oK not technically an RPG but meh).

Phantasy Star was just very "meh" for me. Especiallly considering the year 2 was released. I know people love it but bear in mind it's literally all you had back then. It really is a shambles of bad design and poor use of the abilities of the Sega Megadrive. LOL all you like, back then I was playing epic CD ROM games. PS2 was a damn shame, what they COULD have donme with that good idea for a storyline, hell the poor memory management meant the narrative could fit on one side of A4 paper. :/

3 was... odd. 4 was um, well late in the Megadrive's life, when SNES was getting epics like Chrono Trigger. Nothing really special.

Loved PSO and PSU though.

You're suffering from the effect of nostalgia!

Sega have always been a bit crap really. Just very charming abd innovative in their design and every sso often they produce a real gem.

Pelican
Jan 6, 2007, 04:17 AM
I think nostalgia is a big factor as to why you guys don't like PSU as much as PSO. Even if Sega made the perfect sequel, it'd still be hard to satiate fans simply because the magic in certain regards cannot be recreated.

Here, I think they did a damn good job.

Sinue_v2
Jan 6, 2007, 05:40 AM
LOL all you like, back then I was playing epic CD ROM games

Uh.. there really weren't many "Epic" CD-Rom games back then. At least not on this side of the ocean. Most of them consisted of craptacular FMV Adventures. Gabriel Knight II: The Beast Within being one of the better games ever printed on a CD Rom from that era. And even then - it was the end of that era. Not counting, of course, the regular old DOS games which were only on CD for the purpose of adding voice acting rather than as a main component of the gameplay. The Mega-CD didn't release until 91 in Japan, two years after PSII had already been out. PSIV would have benefitted - and indeed, they had one planned which made use of the MegaCD's capabilities by adding fully animated cutscenes, world maps four times larger than anything in the previous games, and scores more dialouge. The project was scrapped, though, because of budget concerns compaired to how poorly the MegaCD was selling. PSIII was handled by a completely different development team. Hell many in PS's own fandom still considers it a "side game".

PS:EotM is what replaced RoA, and IMO the game is every bit as much a classic as CT or FFVI.

Pengfishh
Jan 6, 2007, 06:32 AM
Ooh, I loved Gabriel Knight 2 when I was a kid. Must have played that through ten times. Saw the guy who played Von Glower in a softcore porn once, too. Yep.

-Shimarisu-
Jan 6, 2007, 06:50 AM
On 2007-01-06 02:40, Sinue_v2 wrote:


Uh.. there really weren't many "Epic" CD-Rom games back then. At least not on this side of the ocean. Most of them consisted of craptacular FMV Adventures. Gabriel Knight II: The Beast Within being one of the better games ever printed on a CD Rom from that era. And even then - it was the end of that era. Not counting, of course, the regular old DOS games which were only on CD for the purpose of adding voice acting rather than as a main component of the gameplay. The Mega-CD didn't release until 91 in Japan, two years after PSII had already been out. PSIV would have benefitted - and indeed, they had one planned which made use of the MegaCD's capabilities by adding fully animated cutscenes, world maps four times larger than anything in the previous games, and scores more dialouge. The project was scrapped, though, because of budget concerns compaired to how poorly the MegaCD was selling. PSIII was handled by a completely different development team. Hell many in PS's own fandom still considers it a "side game".

PS:EotM is what replaced RoA, and IMO the game is every bit as much a classic as CT or FFVI.



Did I say I was playing them on a Mega CD? Nope, I wasnt.

etlitch
Jan 6, 2007, 07:22 AM
On 2007-01-06 00:48, -Shimarisu- wrote:
SNES epics
terraenigma, earthBound and Romancing SaGa.

Never forget.

Alisha
Jan 6, 2007, 07:53 AM
On 2007-01-06 01:17, Pelican wrote:
I think nostalgia is a big factor as to why you guys don't like PSU as much as PSO. Even if Sega made the perfect sequel, it'd still be hard to satiate fans simply because the magic in certain regards cannot be recreated.

Here, I think they did a damn good job.



no

in pso you didnt really have to worry about money or this new stupid paper siscors rock style of game play and forced teamwork. you have less freedom to play how you want.

Genji
Jan 6, 2007, 08:19 AM
On 2007-01-06 04:53, Alisha wrote:

On 2007-01-06 01:17, Pelican wrote:
I think nostalgia is a big factor as to why you guys don't like PSU as much as PSO. Even if Sega made the perfect sequel, it'd still be hard to satiate fans simply because the magic in certain regards cannot be recreated.

Here, I think they did a damn good job.



no

in pso you didnt really have to worry about money or this new stupid paper siscors rock style of game play and forced teamwork. you have less freedom to play how you want.



The fact that meseta was worth close to nothing in PSO was horrible. It also made the game less challenging. In PSO, my bank was always maxed out and my character's inventory was aswell. I only used meseta to restock on mates and fluids, or to buy junk to raise MAGs. Now I have to allocate my money between recharging my weapons, upgrading, and buying new gear and clothes.

As for playing how you want, PSO was much more limited than PSU. Characters in PSU are way more customizable, you can be any race you want and not be limited class-wise (such as Casts being able to use TECHNICs now, male/female Newmans can be rangers or hunters). Honestly I'm glad I no longer look similar to a majority of the online population. And teamwork isn't forced, it's completely optional.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genji on 2007-01-06 05:20 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genji on 2007-01-06 05:23 ]</font>

10ofDiamonds
Jan 6, 2007, 09:27 AM
Ok, I have a rather unpopular opinion on Sega (cause its rather optomistic)

Ya. Like after it became a second developer, Sega sucked. It sucked hard. But recently it seems to be aware that it sucks. It seems like they are going back to basics. This is especially evident when you look at the new Sonics (which apparently are supprisingly good quality), and to a (allegiadly lesser extent) PSU.

Personally I think people don't like PSU because it really isn't a traditional MMO. Before getting it I re-did Kingdom Hearts 2, and moved surprisingly easy into PSU. Even now I juggle PSU with Devil May Cry and am more than satisfied with the action in both. But I digress. PSU to me, is like a offline-action/RPG. Meaning Stats don't matter too much, and basically as long as you use decent weapons you can be succesful. Thats usually doesn't happen in MMOs.

So ya, in conclusion. I think PSU will be like a good wine, as Sega starts to stand on its good foot again, people will slowly build up the community and play PSU. Hopefully Sega will keep building up PSU with its updates (which it defently is doing right now)

Thrash777
Jan 6, 2007, 10:08 AM
It has a large fan base, but it doesn't tend to reach out to the normal gamer as it is an online game with a fee, and some people like simpler games.

Compared to others like it, such as FFXI, Guild Wars, and WoW in a sense, it can compete with them, but there is no clear victor, they all have their own fan bases of which people will religious stick with one type, so you can always people playing PSU, but whether that number increases is another question...

A2K
Jan 6, 2007, 12:45 PM
The game is probably as popular as they'd hope it would be. As much as any company would like a "runaway hit" this certainly isn't as such, but it's found its own comfortable little niche.

As far as it is a game with "Phantasy Star" on it, I find it to be mostly solid and a worthy addition, if not rough around the edges. It has flaws; no big deal--so has every other game in the series.

I find that Sega as a whole needs to put more care into these games, really. The actual developers need to get more into gear with design while the suits could be at least a teensy bit more flexible when it comes to deadlines. It's not good for anyone to be putting out games that aren't even sound on the technical side of things (bugs, etc.--see Sonic 2006).

ShinMaruku
Jan 6, 2007, 01:02 PM
You want this to be better, first off assininate ST (Might seem abit over the top but it's Sonic Team that's the problem) All off them fuckers need to be gone. They are stagnatating the game bring in some newer guys and then give them the conept to work with.
Game is great but yeah it's still half assed.

PMB960
Jan 6, 2007, 02:32 PM
I don't know how Sega is doing financially but it can't be very good. Lately it seems like they stopped trying for many games especially the latest Sonic, I mean come on the camera is a physical object that can knock you off the edge. That hasn't been a problem since the Half-Life days. For some reason though they seem to put in a ton of effort on 2D Sonic games, the one for the DS was very good. Other games could have been very good and some of their decisions don't make sense. They could have used the F-Zero GX engine for Sonic Riders but instead they chose to do something totally different that made the game well not horrible but not very good either. As for people complaining that the game changed too much if they did only change very little or nothing at all from PSO most people would complain it is too similar to the original. Sega did a good job by changing somethings to attract new people but not changing it so much you alienate the fans of the series. I hope Sega turns around so that I can see more of these games in the future but it doesn't look like they have gotten their act together yet.

ShinMaruku
Jan 6, 2007, 02:40 PM
Sega is in good shape as it'sd Sega Sammy Holdings and with Virtua Fighter they are cleainin up ther charts so they are doing fine it's just some of their branches need a good leaning out and replacement.

Zato-2TWO
Jan 6, 2007, 06:49 PM
My take on why a lot of people don't appreciate PSU as a good 'MMO' is because it is totally unlike any other MMO out there. You can't play PSU like you play WoW or L2, because it's more than just putting the best gear with the best stats and watching numbers fly; it's a whole different experience. For some people it doesn't work out, because these are the kind of people who enjoy stat-crunching and watching numbers pop out of monsters. For others it offers a whole new experience of online gameplay, serving up a new style of MMO action and interactivity. That's what I enjoy about PSU, that I'm not just watching my person whack at monsters while numbers fly; it's more action-oriented than any other MMO on the market.

I managed to convert two long-time WoW players to PSU some weeks before the game came out, and they also appreciate PSU's gameplay (though they really joined up for totally different reasons; one friend because he's a mecha-nut and wanted to play a CAST, the other because PSU allowed him to make a little girl character =P).

Sinue_v2
Jan 6, 2007, 07:00 PM
Did I say I was playing them on a Mega CD? Nope, I wasnt.


Gabriel Knight II: The Beast Within being one of the better games ever printed on a CD Rom from that era. And even then - it was the end of that era. Not counting, of course, the regular old DOS games which were only on CD for the purpose of adding voice acting rather than as a main component of the gameplay.

Gee... do you recall GK:II ever being on the SegaCD? Did the Genesis run on a DOS OS? Obviously I wasn't keeping this strictly within the realm of consoles. I would assume you were referring to the PC platform, since no console (or at least, no console worth a shit and capable of getting "Epic" games) was released durring the timeframe you're talking about.

Honestly, I have a hard time believing any kind of "epic" game was released anywhere near the time PSII was because CD-Rom technology was very new and very expensive at that point in time. Not a lot of companies would want to risk the investment in a fledgling technology. Sierra and LucasArts were two of the first major supporters of CD-Rom technology - with King's Quest V being the first high-profile game being released on the format in 1992. At least, outside of Japan. Though I can't really see too many true Japanese "Epics" comming out on CD before that time since PC gaming at that time was really driven by the western markets.

Unless.. you mean those silly SSI AD&D RPG's which didn't start getting good until Menzoberranzan in 1992.

So please.. explain.. because I was playing PC CD-ROM games at that time as well - and honestly the only companys really pushing the envelope at that time and taking real advantage of the CD-Rom technology were the Adventure game giants who drove the industry. Sierra, LucasArts, and Infocom. Hence, why many of the earliest CD-Rom games were Adventure games or FMV which were trying to grab a piece of the percieved pie.

Parn
Jan 6, 2007, 07:02 PM
On 2007-01-06 11:32, PMB960 wrote:
I don't know how Sega is doing financially but it can't be very good.
Sega's doing great financially. They're doing better than ever in the company's history, in fact. The Sega of old that people keep hoping for is long gone; the Sega that made great games but wrote constant red ink. There's no way that the company will return to that.

No matter how bad some of us think Sonic games are, they are selling better than ever and are a favorite for kids.

Ronzeru
Jan 6, 2007, 07:12 PM
Pa-pa PARN!

ShinMaruku
Jan 6, 2007, 08:11 PM
SEga still makes Greta games VF is pure greatness that's Sega's sole property that's without peer and is fitting as AM2 had some hardworkers where wereas Sonic Team is a bunch of elitist dicks that need to die.

Nukei
Jan 6, 2007, 08:14 PM
Sega makes games? I thought they just publish them. xD

KiteWolfwood
Jan 6, 2007, 08:31 PM
I was a big fan of PSO. I was highly dissapointed with PSU. They took out everything that was fun about PSO and added everything hated in other mmorpgs.

Parn
Jan 6, 2007, 08:34 PM
What are those things that you speak of? I'm curious.

Zer_01
Jan 6, 2007, 09:24 PM
sometimes i wish i had the wealth of old school sega gaming experience that some of you have.

and as such i can only evaluate what i think of the game in somewhat limited terms as far as experience is concerend.

out of the box, i ate PSU's story mode like candy, yes it seemed a bit stale, but come on ITS CANDY! being a veteran of PSO on DC and BB on PC, i missed some of the mechanics of the old game, but i was delighted more often than not.

and as far as the popularity of the game goes, there will always be the inherent limit of the PS2 console and the ability to upgrade and expand the game. but that hardly will deter die hard fans, the game doesnt cover any real new ground, but so what?

i miss some of the other little tidbits associated with other MMO's, but it doesnt stop me from enjoying a bit of good old fashioned whoopin with a big weapon.

-Shimarisu-
Jan 6, 2007, 09:27 PM
On 2007-01-06 16:00, Sinue_v2 wrote:

Did I say I was playing them on a Mega CD? Nope, I wasnt.


Gabriel Knight II: The Beast Within being one of the better games ever printed on a CD Rom from that era. And even then - it was the end of that era. Not counting, of course, the regular old DOS games which were only on CD for the purpose of adding voice acting rather than as a main component of the gameplay.

Gee... do you recall GK:II ever being on the SegaCD? Did the Genesis run on a DOS OS? Obviously I wasn't keeping this strictly within the realm of consoles. I would assume you were referring to the PC platform, since no console (or at least, no console worth a shit and capable of getting "Epic" games) was released durring the timeframe you're talking about.

Honestly, I have a hard time believing any kind of "epic" game was released anywhere near the time PSII was because CD-Rom technology was very new and very expensive at that point in time. Not a lot of companies would want to risk the investment in a fledgling technology. Sierra and LucasArts were two of the first major supporters of CD-Rom technology - with King's Quest V being the first high-profile game being released on the format in 1992. At least, outside of Japan. Though I can't really see too many true Japanese "Epics" comming out on CD before that time since PC gaming at that time was really driven by the western markets.

Unless.. you mean those silly SSI AD&D RPG's which didn't start getting good until Menzoberranzan in 1992.

So please.. explain.. because I was playing PC CD-ROM games at that time as well - and honestly the only companys really pushing the envelope at that time and taking real advantage of the CD-Rom technology were the Adventure game giants who drove the industry. Sierra, LucasArts, and Infocom. Hence, why many of the earliest CD-Rom games were Adventure games or FMV which were trying to grab a piece of the percieved pie.



I can't believe you wrote all this stuff and forgot about the first CD console ever, anmd indeed most successful until the release of the Sony Playstation, the PC Engine CD ROM. Yep, it only got two or three "epic" RPGs released in the USA, but they made things like Phantasy Star 2 look like junk. It was mostly the poor handling of the spasce on the ROM that let that game down though. They could have done much, much more with it.

Always makes me laugh how Americans don't know anything about the PC Engine, because in the UK you were awesomely cool if you had imported one, and it never even got a release there. Blasted the Megadrive out of the charts in Japan too.

Ys Book 1 and 2 was released in 1990 in the USA, and AFAIK that was the same year PSII came out? And Dragon Slayer Legend of Heroes came out around that time (turn based CD RPG). That was about the time I played them both too. Sorry, but that and a lot of stuff on SNES made PSII look bad. I was more impressed with Shining Force and Landstaker, can't even think of a decent turnbased RPG on MD tho. Maybe that's why Sega fans love Phantasy Star so much. They had nothing else.

Parn
Jan 7, 2007, 12:30 AM
So I just finished playing some good ol' Phantasy Star Online again after all this time. Here are my thoughts:

1. Oh my God, the controls are awful. It's like having driven a Ferrari for the past few months, then suddenly trying to get around on a riding lawnmower. It's a tremendous downgrade, no exaggeration.

2. The graphics are atrocious. The techs look like crap (zonde looks like ramen noodles and barta's puffs of blue clouds look horrid), the animations are stiff, and the while the environment textures are sharper, the areas are confined and gives you a feeling of claustrophobia... nevermind the horrid looking character models. PSU's are waaaaaay better.

3. PSO's combat sucks majorly, now. It doesn't even come close to being as awesome as PSU's combat.

In other news, less than a week before I get nearly naked on PSU, another plus for the game! I sure couldn't show any skin in PSO. A cryin' shame, I tell you!

Sinue_v2
Jan 7, 2007, 01:04 AM
I can't believe you wrote all this stuff and forgot about the first CD console ever, anmd indeed most successful until the release of the Sony Playstation, the PC Engine CD ROM.

That's because the Turbo Graphics 16 was little more than a hiccup in the market over here, and really anywhere outside of Japan. Not that it was even REALLY popular over there. More popular than the Mark III and MD? Maybe - but that's not really saying much since Sega has pretty much always bombed their consoles over there.


Yep, it only got two or three "epic" RPGs released in the USA, but they made things like Phantasy Star 2 look like junk.

If you mean games like Tengai Makyo (Far East of Eden correct?) then I was not impressed with the series, and that's hardly what I'd call epic - even compaired to the SSI games which came out at reletively the same time. Even Sierra's QFG4 RPG/Adventure hybrids easily crushed those games IMO.. but then, QFG didn't make it's CD debut until 1993... and still, was little more than the DOS port with added voice overs. (Some very excellent VA's, mind you, but still).

I didn't play Y's until the Playstation era - but meh, the series has never struck me as real quality. Least, not anything I would care to play. Expecially in light of older RPG's for the PC such as Menzoberranzan and Betrayal at Krondor... not to mention PC RPGs that would come out in the PS's lifetime such as Baulder's Gate or Plane Scape.

If you think they were better than PSII, then more power to you. From what I've played of them (which was just - Tengai Makyo over at my friend Kevin's house) they weren't overly impressive, and not nearly enough to wrest my attention away from PS. Honestly, the only two series to do that have been able to do that were Quest for Glory and Elder Scrolls. And even then, I guess I wouldn't even call Quest for Glory epic.. with it's only really "epic" nature being that you can take the same character you started with across all five games in the series.


Sorry, but that and a lot of stuff on SNES made PSII look bad.

The SNES didn't get a lot of it's quality RPG's, at least in the states, until well after PSII had been released. Hell the SNES wasn't even released until almost 2 years after PSII was for the Genesis. Final Fantasy III wasn't even released until 1990, and they were still using the "Fighter/Monk/W. Mage" naming system for their characters. To the best of my knowladge, it wouldn't be until FFIV that they even started giving their characters NAMES.... and Final Fantasy IV wouldn't be released until a YEAR after PS III was released.

I don't even want to hear about the SNES - because by the time most of their good RPG's started comming out, the shift in RPGs from purely gameplay based titles to more character driven narratives was already well underway, and Phantasy Star had already played a it's role in making that change come about.


Maybe that's why Sega fans love Phantasy Star so much. They had nothing else.

I can assure you, that at least concerning me, this Sega fan had plenty else to play considering I owned the Genesis/SegaCD, SNES, a good PC, and had access to the TG-16/PC-Engine, Jaguar, Macintosh, ect. I wasn't restricted to one console, or one choice of games... I've played many others, and I still prefer Phantasy Star to a vast majority of games out there.

You could say that World of Warcraft or Everquest beat the shit out of PSU in terms of quality and make it look like junk. That doesn't matter though, to a good many of the posters here. We have access to those games, and yet we still play PSU because we like it better than what Blizzard or SoE is offering. It's the same deal with the classic Phantasy Star games. Even if YOU didn't enjoy them - many of US did... which is why we're fans of the original series. Not because we didn't have any other choices - but because something unique for every individual hooked them and still hasn't let go.

And please... it's no use trying to insult Sega. You won't be able to say anything about them that their hardcore fanbase hasn't already citisized them for, repeatedly - and at great length.

[/drunken rant]



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-01-06 22:05 ]</font>

-Shimarisu-
Jan 7, 2007, 02:06 AM
Tengai Makyo 2 is only regarded as one of the best games of all time, it's asctually in Famitsu's top ten ever.

So, eh.

Alisha
Jan 7, 2007, 02:21 AM
On 2007-01-06 21:30, Parn wrote:
So I just finished playing some good ol' Phantasy Star Online again after all this time. Here are my thoughts:

1. Oh my God, the controls are awful. It's like having driven a Ferrari for the past few months, then suddenly trying to get around on a riding lawnmower. It's a tremendous downgrade, no exaggeration.

2. The graphics are atrocious. The techs look like crap (zonde looks like ramen noodles and barta's puffs of blue clouds look horrid), the animations are stiff, and the while the environment textures are sharper, the areas are confined and gives you a feeling of claustrophobia... nevermind the horrid looking character models. PSU's are waaaaaay better.

3. PSO's combat sucks majorly, now. It doesn't even come close to being as awesome as PSU's combat.

In other news, less than a week before I get nearly naked on PSU, another plus for the game! I sure couldn't show any skin in PSO. A cryin' shame, I tell you!



while that may be true i prefered the simplicity of pso's combat. i prefer self reliance so i hate it when i have to depend on a ranger or force when a tengogh rolls around. as much as i like pa's i dont like the fact that you have to hold back in a team setting because of knockbacks. last i get the feeling that on S-rank twin daggers will be psu's version of mechguns. the difference here being that sega can change the pa %'s to balance things out but i doubt they ever will.

ShadowDragon28
Jan 7, 2007, 03:45 AM
For a game developed in *1988* as a first gen 16-bit console RPG (in a a cartridge) Phantasy Star II was a pretty awesome RPG. And still one of my favorites.

FYI, It took a year or more to be released in english in the US. As much as I * love* Ys Book 1&2 on the Turbo Grafix/PC-Engine CD-ROM;
I enjoyed the style and the pathos of story events in PSII far more than Ys Book 1 & 2. I mean the english version ever make it clear that the Seer died or why??? At least in PS II it was perfectly clear *why* Nei died and she was a major character not a supporting NPC...

There was little *close* "personal" connection between Adol and the Seer. So when the Seer "disappeared" or "died" it was like "what? Hm..ok..that stinks..ah well."
In Ps II, with Nei's death the player was like "noooo! she was in love with *main characters name here*" or some-such. 16-bit cartridges could not fit FMV anime, miles of still cut-scenes in 1988 or "red-book" audio music lol.

The styles of game mechanics between Ys and PsII where pretty darn different between games on Turbo CD and 1st Gen games on a cart-based console, and yet both types worked *well* for what types of games they were back then.

I could of cared less for Tengai Makyo, it was goofy and that's ok sometimes, but just didn't hold my interest.

I've played *far* worse back in 1988~1990. *has bad flashback of Might & Magic for the Genesis, eye twitches*


Along with the first Phantasy Star, and Ps IV:End of the Millenium the Ps series I love the same as the Ys series, Lunar, Grandia, and Shining Force series where I've enjoyed pretty much each major game in those series.

Several *select* SNES Rpg's are damn good too, but they where 2nd and 3rd generation dev. games. The *first gen* games on SNES (developed at the same time as PS II in Japan) were decent to outright undecypherable and boring to play IMO so those didn't compare to Ps II IMO.

IMNHO it's kind of pointless to compare games developed about a year or more apart for totally different formats (cartridge and CD-ROM/ 1988 vrs 1989-1990+ ). It a little like comparing Pitfall on the Atari 2600 to NES's Super Mario Bros. which is really silly IMO.

Developers always improve the quality of their work as they learn to use the full capabilties of the console's hardware and the software tools.


Addendum:

Will the complainers/bashers of PSU supposed "flaws" ever get tired of beating a dead horse that is the "flaws" or "dissappointments" with PSU. I think everyone here has read them over a dozen times. Please stop beating the dead horse?

Just my two-cents.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShadowDragon28 on 2007-01-07 01:01 ]</font>

huntlyon
Jan 7, 2007, 04:09 AM
PS 2, and 4 were some of the golden 16 bit RPGs, hands down...

in regards to PSU.. the series was rebooted with PSO, for better or worse.. you can't go home again... and you can't hire decent voiceactors to do it either apparently.



as someone that prefers controlled combat over macros and autoattacks of most MMOs.. PSU strikes one hell of a balance between action and RPG.

huntlyon
Jan 7, 2007, 04:10 AM
double post fun!


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: huntlyon on 2007-01-07 01:27 ]</font>

kazuma56
Jan 7, 2007, 04:28 AM
Don't want to look like i'm attacking you here ali, but i'm going to answer these anyway.

while that may be true i prefered the simplicity of pso's combat.

Although it was more simple, it was also broken... a Ranger using a spread needle could "stun lock" 5 mobs of enemies, you could do so with almost every weapon too... female and male animations were different and some made male double saber users look foolish because you can't manual evade at all (barring BB) likewise for female saber users.


i prefer self reliance so i hate it when i have to depend on a ranger or force when a tengogh rolls around.

I would've thought you'd come to "accept" it by now seeing as you play FFXI... which forces you to party with any job barring BST and possibly PUP.... but when compared to PSO... its not that different if you think about it, I believe sega made the game the way it is to make you solidfy at least 2 different jobs types as your "playing style" similar to FFXI's approach.. I believe a tengogh hates fire...using flame bullets/weapons would prove useful in "solo" situations shouldn't it?

as much as i like pa's i dont like the fact that you have to hold back in a team setting because of knockbacks.

this (in my opinion anyway) is a double edged sword in PSU's design, I believe that if you can deal good damage to an enemy and "protect" low hp characters with KB's it works... but if you do **** damage and are bouncing enemies rangers/forces deal better damage too it works against you.

last i get the feeling that on S-rank twin daggers will be psu's version of mechguns. the difference here being that sega can change the pa %'s to balance things out but i doubt they ever will.

But aren't Figunners the only class capable of S-rank daggers? spamming would deal alot of damage I can assume but a S-rank sword/axe would be even more damaging if there is ultimate PA's with good AOE's... it balances them out in the end with other melee classes I think.

As for the PS series of old... PSIV IS my favourite RPG to date as it was the one to bring me into the franchise and one that I actually picked up myself (cousin liked RPG's and he played and finished PS2 in the summer I spent with him when i was 7 or 8...don't remeber much of the story if at all), I concur with sinue's statements which basically can be referred to "different strokes for different folks" and believe that PS series (of old) WAS everything PS fans made it out to be.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kazuma56 on 2007-01-07 01:33 ]</font>

Alisha
Jan 7, 2007, 04:51 AM
i prefer self reliance so i hate it when i have to depend on a ranger or force when a tengogh rolls around.

I would've thought you'd come to "accept" it by now seeing as you play FFXI... which forces you to party with any job barring BST and possibly PUP.... but when compared to PSO... its not that different if you think about it, I believe sega made the game the way it is to make you solidfy at least 2 different jobs types as your "playing style" similar to FFXI's approach.. I believe a tengogh hates fire...using flame bullets/weapons would prove useful in "solo" situations shouldn't it?

thats a little different since if you encounter a melee resistant monster in ffxi you can still be useful by making a skillchain.

Zarbolord
Jan 7, 2007, 04:53 AM
In France its pretty popular, inversly from pso, psu ihas become quite a known game. A whole stock sold out in 2 days at the game store, that's only been beaten by the Wii, beleive me, that is good over here.

Sinue_v2
Jan 9, 2007, 12:32 AM
Tengai Makyo 2 is only regarded as one of the best games of all time, it's asctually in Famitsu's top ten ever.

It sure as hell isn't in my top 10, or many top 10 lists that I've seen. This is most likely largly attributed to simply different tastes in different markets. PlaneScape is generally reguarded as on of the best RPG's ever released as well, at least in western presses and fandom - but how well was it recieved in Japan? Oblivion has garnered critical acclaim in the west, but how has it fared in Japan? PSU is quite popular in Japan, and yet over her it's bombed and ridiculed in nearly every press outlet.


In Ps II, with Nei's death the player was like "noooo! she was in love with *main characters name here*" or some-such.

Ah, I think you read that wrong. Nei wasn't in love with Rolf, and he wasn't in love with her. He saw her as a little sister, and nothing more. In terms of romance, there never was a strong one between any of the characters - though Rolf and Anna were quite close, and Josh Kain had a huge crush on Nei that was never able to come to fruition because of her death.

The reason Nei insisted on accompanying Rolf - is because she KNEW who was behind the Bio-Monster outbreak. Nei wasn't really her own person - but a fractured and expelled segment of Neifirst's conciousness. In a sence, she WAS Neifirst. So Nei knew right from the outset of the mission that she was going to have to fight Neifirst, and that it would mean her death. Nei's theme is sacrifice. In fact, it was her sacrifice of everything to help those who scorned and abused her which drove Rolf to himself sacrifice everything when the entire world was against him. He went down in offical history as a criminal and a terrorist responsible for the Great Collapse and the destruction of Palma and the Mother Brain - the death of nearly 90% of the system's population.

Palefire
Jan 9, 2007, 01:42 AM
I can tell you this much: for casual gamers such as myself who can't be online all the time to play, PSU has been a dream come true. Most MMOs such as WoW have far too much of a time-sink factor for me to be able to play and enjoy myself; I want to spend my time hunting with my friends, not walking all the way to the field only to find out I only have 30 minutes to actually level before I have to go to bed. (City of Heroes brought the casual fun when it first came out, but now it too has become far too time-intensive in order to satisfy hardcore gamers who can be on the game the whole day)

Moreover, as Zato-2TWO so eloquently put it, "it's more than just putting the best gear with the best stats and watching numbers fly." There have been a few other MMOs that broke away from the whole stat-oriented combat cliche (the aforementioned City of Heroes, Star Wars Galaxies) and made playing much more interactive, and I've never missed it when I've played those games. Playing a Force, I have to divide my time between healing my party members (I party exclusively with a close-knit circle of offline friends) and dealing out damage. I can't even begin to tell you how much more fun it is to play my Force than the usual cleric-type or mage-type on any other game just from that interactivity alone.

So for those who would like to play an MMO but don't have the time for the usual number-crunching/XP grinding/farming that is -- quite frankly -- downright boring, PSU will be able to fill that niche quite nicely. There IS a viable casual gamer market out there...it's just a ashame that it's taken this long for someone to realise it.

-Shimarisu-
Jan 9, 2007, 10:28 AM
Sinue, I'm not gonna argue with you any more, because your main experience of the PC Engine is "Played it at my friend's house" and your experience of Ys has been nothing more than lacklustre PS2 ports and remakes. Whereas I owned every single one of those consoles back in the day, and had to review all those games. (We gave PSII 8/10 iirc, although I disagreed and thought it was only worth 7/10 tops, cripplingly slow it was even for its time.)

I may as well say Phantasy Star 1 was complete crap ( I don't think so, I think for its time it shits on PSII) because I only ever played it on the PS2 in 2004 or some shit, what would you think of that? I did actually play it on the Master System way back when, but I could base my entire perspective of the series on junky ports and dismiss your favourite series without even knowing what I was talking about. Then would you listen? Anyway the way you cast scorn on Ys is pretty insulting. Almost every game series since its release has borrowed aspects from it (what did Phantasy Star borrow? Clicky. http://www.falcom.co.jp/download/w_paper/image/ys2e_02m.jpg The talking, wise little cat creature guardians of Ys, yep. Oh and they're yellow too.)

I doubt you have played to the end of Tengai Makyo II anyway.

At any rate, old school gamer here and I vastly prefer PSO and PSU to the old series. Sorry!

Callous
Jan 9, 2007, 11:09 AM
PSU has so many things going for it. It's a shame its shortcomings means it still ends up as a soulless shadow of PSO. PSO wasn't very successful in terms of broad appeal. PSU won't be either and it won't ever become the cult success PSO was and to some extent still is.

That said, you'll very likely still be able to get a good game going a year or two from now. Doesn't take that many subscribers.

Shaidar
Jan 9, 2007, 11:39 AM
Don't misunderstand me now. PSU is great fun. I love it. However, it doesn't take advantage of the huge potential the PS universe has. And now I'm not talking about the story (which I hope will evolve since it, at this point, only has about three decent characters IMO), but the design and gameworld itself. I really wish I'll get to see an online PS game with freedom and exploration like..let's say PSIV, but with the gameplay of PSU.

Oh, and I agree with Palefire. And hey, grinding is actually fun in this game. :D



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shaidar on 2007-01-09 08:39 ]</font>

Xtian913
Jan 9, 2007, 11:53 AM
Like Shaidar, I agree with Palefire as well. Unfortunately I don't have that much time at night after work to play online, maybe three hours at maximum, so being able to just jump in for a while and play for a while at my level. Sure, I wish I was a lvl 60 and had all my Techs at 30, but that's also a fun part of it for me. To keep going and keep growing. I suppose if I had this game back in high school I would have been an addict - so maybe its good I have to cut my play time into short doses. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Sinue_v2
Jan 9, 2007, 09:40 PM
Sinue, I'm not gonna argue with you any more, because your main experience of the PC Engine is "Played it at my friend's house"

Yeah, that is my only experince with the PC Engine. The damned thing tanked over here, and didn't get crap for games. Why the hell would I buy one? The Neo-Geo spanked it. I guess I could import Japanese games, but honestly it wasn't worth the effort - expecially since I was enthralled with much better and more impressive games on the PC at the time. Expecially Adventure games which, at the time, ruled the PC market here.


Whereas I owned every single one of those consoles back in the day, and had to review all those games.

So you reviewed a bunch of import games that not a whole lot of people really gave a crap about? So what? Is that supposed to be impressive? Game Journalism is like, rock bottom jounalistic experience. Movie critics are held to higher reguard. You're the Gene Shallot of the game world, congratulations. I guess it doesn't matter, but I was offered the chance to review for TeamXbox when they first started out (I was modding over at PSX2Central at the time) and I declined the offer because I didn't think it would go anywhere. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. Opinions are only opinions. I simply don't agree with yours.


I did actually play it on the Master System way back when, but I could base my entire perspective of the series on junky ports and dismiss your favourite series without even knowing what I was talking about.

Ah, I see.. I touched a nerve because I don't like your "favorite" game series. Well whatever, because I haven't seen too many "Junky" ports of the original games. The Saturn Collection, the GBA collection, PC PSIV Port, and the PS2 collection are all (virtually) identical to the original games, with the exception the save game bug in the GBA version which is so rare it's not really much of a concern.


Anyway the way you cast scorn on Ys is pretty insulting. Almost every game series since its release has borrowed aspects from it

Yeah... and? Game series borrow from one another all the time. Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Star Ocean, Phantasy Star - they all pick up on what works from certain series and modify it to their own uses. What the hell makes Y's so special?

Look, I like Quest for Glory - but I'm not so pompous as to say that Elder Scrolls borrowed it's idea of incremental stat increase through practice of skills rather than abitrary leveling up. (and I'm sure QFG snagged that from somewhere else as well anyhow). It may have, it may not have.. but the fact is that games do this all the time. Big deal. It's not like Phantasy Star hasn't influenced other games.

At ANY rate: I never said Y's wasn't good - or weither or not I thought it was better than PS. I simply didn't care for Y's, on personal taste - and I certainly wouldn't call it "Epic". I know it may be hard for you to understand that some people just don't care for your favorite game series - but you're going to have to come to grips with it sooner or later.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-01-09 18:44 ]</font>