Kubara guns are terrible.

[Edman]

And florescent bulbs.

I used to have a 3* Buster at 5 grinds, and a florescent bulb at 5 grinds. The Buster had +3 ATP and at least +10 (More, but I can't remember exactly) ATA. The pp was the same. I didn't bother going past 5, and maybe it would have helped a little. But the permanently low ATA and risk of breaking didn't really win me over.

And I know rifles are worse. look HERE (http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Rifles) and compare the grind stats. Kubara weapons have decent starting grinds, but get worse each level. Everyone thinks the get better, but I've tested it myself and they get worse.

I synthed a Raihoc and compared it to the Falgohoh I could have had. It had 500 less PP, 40 less ATA, and recharged at 10pp instead of 16. A little more ATP sure, but not enough to sacrifice that much everywhere else.

If you aren't convinced, go to the item database and look at the other ranged weapons. Kubara weapons are weak. They don't grind well. They recharge slow. It makes sense that a 6* kubara is named after a 1* GRM; the stats are pretty much that low.

If you've had better results (or can prove that PSUpedia is wrong) I really wouldn't mind hearing about it. Maybe melee/force weapons work better?
I want to use Kubara(I think they look better), but they just don't seem worth it.

[Dj_SkyEpic]

Not the Kubara Alteric bow +10 :3

[Laranas]

An Alteric (6* Kubara Bow) +10 is about equivilent to a Ulteri (9* Yohmei Bow) +7/8 in ATP, while the ATA isn't bad either. I don't know about other guns, but in that example the Kubara version is great. It starts out low, but becomes the best bow in the game -- right now.

[deedger]

its all up to how you play, if you want all the high #'s than get a normal weapon like everyone else but personally i would rather have a weapon that i made and grinded instead of having the same stuff as everyone else. its just a different way to play!

[VanHalen]

i have a light flourescent bulb grinded to 4 and its pretty good to me i might grind it more so i can get some more PP out of it though T_T and anyway my bulb as way more attack power than my palasara

[Dj_SkyEpic]

6* Alteric Bow +10 stats:

PP:1274
Att:667
Acc:268
Ata Req: 83

9* Ulteri bow +0 Stats:

PP:1238
Att:595
Acc:300
Ata Req:142

I'm sticking with the Alteric for now until I can grind that Ulteri I have.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dj_SkyEpic on 2007-01-16 22:17 ]</font>

[Edman]

Yeah thats true. I forgot to consider who uses them, I can't use a bow so I'm not sure how they stack up.

If the weapon had better PP but lower power it would be great if you're really trying to drop SE's on the enemies. Personally I just pound things with a shotgun up close or drop traps if I need a freeze/virus out there.

But thats a good point.

Though I wont deny that some kubara-specific weapons are amazing; I've been set on the Degahna cannon since day one.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Edman on 2007-01-16 22:18 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Edman on 2007-01-16 22:23 ]</font>

[Niered]

On 2007-01-16 22:16, Edman wrote:

Though I wont deny that some kubara-specific weapons are amazing; I've been set on the Degahna cannon since day one.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Edman on 2007-01-16 22:18 ]</font>



QFT. Amazing, undeniable, complete truth.

[foamcup]

Kikamics aren't bad either. I mainly use my cards to inflict virus while I strafe around to heal, so the better accuracy helps there. I'll move up to Ageha-Kikami when I get the ATA. Has anyone checked out the bonus it gets with Ageha-senba? It doesn't seem worth it to go back to using such a low armor considering I get slapped around wearing a Har-senba.

[Remedy]

25% more ATP and ATA for the weapon and 25% more DFP for the armor.

[RandomTask]

Looking at the stats for both of the 6 star Kubara rifles (the Riflic and Raihoc) we can conclude that they are both more powerful then even the 9 star Phantom Rifle that just came out(without being combined with Phantomline). This is the same with most all of the Kubara guns. Catch is, you have to grind them to at least 8 for them to shine, Grinds 9 and 10 usually giving you the biggest gains. Kubara weapons do not suck, they are the best weapons in the game if you can take them to 10.


Riflic [kubara] PP: 870 Attack power: 341 On-target hit power: 107
Degree of strengthening PP Growth Attack power Growth Degree of strengthening PP Growth Attack power Growth
+1 954 84 367 26 +6 1272 50 478 21
+2 1038 84 390 23 +7 1306 34 499 21
+3 1105 67 413 23 +8 1340 34 520 21
+4 1172 67 436 23 +9 1374 34 556 36
+5 1222 50 457 21 +10 1408 34 602 46
[raihoc] [kubara] PP: 935 Attack power: 330 On-target hit power: 111
Degree of strengthening PP Growth Attack power Growth Degree of strengthening PP Growth Attack power Growth
+1 975 40 354 24 +6 1127 24 458 19
+2 1015 40 376 22 +7 1143 24 477 19
+3 1047 32 398 22 +8 1159 16 496 19
+4 1079 32 420 22 +9 1175 16 530 34
+5 1103 24 439 19 +10 1191 16 573 43

[Itsuki]

And I know rifles are worse. look HERE and compare the grind stats. Kubara weapons have decent starting grinds, but get worse each level. Everyone thinks the get better, but I've tested it myself and they get worse.

I synthed a Raihoc and compared it to the Falgohoh I could have had. It had 500 less PP, 40 less ATA, and recharged at 10pp instead of 16. A little more ATP sure, but not enough to sacrifice that much everywhere else.

If you aren't convinced, go to the item database and look at the other ranged weapons. Kubara weapons are weak. They don't grind well. They recharge slow. It makes sense that a 6* kubara is named after a 1* GRM; the stats are pretty much that low.
Rifles are a bad one to look at since falgohoh are so good and because they grind like tenora. weapons (meaning they get the majority of what they're going to get from the last 2 grinds).

But if you really want to compare:
1698pp 544atp 154ata <-- Falgohoh +10
1408pp 602atp 107ata <-- Riflec +10
1422pp 582atp 188ata <-- Phantom +5

Cards have lower ATP for higher ATA. Crossbows have lower ATP for higher PP. Theres other similar tradeoffs. And some are all for looks and end up almost exactly the same as their originals (such as the twin handguns).

You also have to consider that kubara have fixed synth rates (to my knowledge), so you can synth them without having a proper PM. And you have to consider on all servers except for the US PC/PS2 is probably cheaper to synth kubara than it is to synth normal. (atleast last time I synthed kubara on the jp server, kubara wood ran for like 200 meseta).

[Edman]

Random task, did you notice the way kubara weapons grind less, and not more?

Kubara go up (ATP):
+26,23,23,23,23,21,21,21,36,46= +263
GRM go up (ATP):
+29,26,26,26,23,23,23,23,40,51= +290

PP is the same way; but level 10, GRM guns have more. So you might as well synth the GRM because its easier, and grind it because it will always be better at the same level.

And they aren't more powerful unless you do grind them to at least 8. But at that point the accuracy is almost half the phantom.

And unless you glitch for grinds, it would probably be cheaper to get the phantom.

[Edman]

how do you know the stats for phantom+5? there aren't grinder As yet. Either way, why would it only go up 40 ATP for 5 levels, while the others go up at least 100 by that level?

[RandomTask]

GRM go up (ATP):
+29,26,26,26,23,23,23,23,40,51= +290

Which GRM weapon grinds like this?

[Edman]

Rifles, look at the chart I linked earlier.

http://psupedia.info/index.php?title=Rifles

[Laranas]

On 2007-01-16 22:58, RandomTask wrote:
GRM go up (ATP):
+29,26,26,26,23,23,23,23,40,51= +290

Which GRM weapon grinds like this?

Definately not a handgun I've touched.

[RandomTask]

Jp has A Grinders...

Look! (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpsu.fei-yen.jp%2Fwiki%2Fhtml%2FDB2FC9F0B4EFB6AFB2BD.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)

MEIRA-EDIT: Made the link friendlier to lower resolutions. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2007-01-16 23:56 ]</font>

[Edman]

Ok thanks, i just wanted to be sure. Even though it took forever to figure out what the hell the translation was trying to say. Doesn't look like I'm grinding my phantom any time soon.

But still, the last 5 levels do take it up a lot more than the first.

[Edman]

The difference here is I'm using the US PSUpedia and you're using JP version. Which means either:

A)the US version is wrong, and therefore all of my arguments are as well
B)the JP version has different weapon grinding.

I really wouldn't mind being wrong, as I said I would definitely use Kubara if they were worth it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Edman on 2007-01-16 23:34 ]</font>

[RandomTask]

Well for me, that GRM rifle still has about 50Atp less at +10. Being a Fortegunner, I don't really need the extra ata. PP is another thing that really means nothng to me. These guns have enough PP to where a +/- of a hundred or 2 doesn't matter. I'm also a fan of how the Kubara guns look but maybe thats just me.

[RandomTask]

Well for me, that GRM rifle still has about 50Atp less at +10. Being a Fortegunner, I don't really need the extra ata. PP is another thing that really means nothng to me. These guns have enough PP to where a +/- of a hundred or 2 doesn't matter. I'm also a fan of how the Kubara guns look but maybe thats just me.

[Edman]

Alright, I'm going to make some kubara weapons and see which wiki is right. And probably correct the US version.

<Edit>
And then I remembered that the problem is the US page's GRM stats. I already started working on the Riflic, so screw the Falcon. I'll just fix the wiki so it matches the JP version; theres no way our stats could be that much better.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Edman on 2007-01-17 00:15 ]</font>

[Itsuki]

On 2007-01-16 22:51, Edman wrote:
Random task, did you notice the way kubara weapons grind less, and not more?

Kubara go up (ATP):
+26,23,23,23,23,21,21,21,36,46= +263
GRM go up (ATP):
+29,26,26,26,23,23,23,23,40,51= +290

PP is the same way; but level 10, GRM guns have more. So you might as well synth the GRM because its easier, and grind it because it will always be better at the same level.

And they aren't more powerful unless you do grind them to at least 8. But at that point the accuracy is almost half the phantom.

And unless you glitch for grinds, it would probably be cheaper to get the phantom.



C-rank grm go up like that, not B-rank. B-rank are
19,17,17,17,15,15,15,15,27,34 = 191

PP follows a similar pattern of Kubara having a considerable more amount per grind.

[RandomTask]

Yea, I think the US one is wrong because the Falcon sucks and the Falgohah or whatever is Yohmei not GRM.

[Zato-2TWO]

Shigga Brada
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Zato-2TWO/psu20070117_184919_000.jpg

Shigga Damduc +10
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Zato-2TWO/psu20070117_185002_001.jpg

The comparison
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Zato-2TWO/psu20070117_185015_002.jpg

That's as much as I have to offer.

[Carbinne]

Yeah Kubara rifles are pretty much giant balls of suck. I used to use them because they were black but after getting Falcon (7) and Riflic(7) I noted there was practically no difference stat-wise. Anyone insane enough to pull a kubara rifle to 10 is either insane or likes wasting B+10s on crap weapons. Unless they get like 200 ATP boosts in those last 2 grinds (which I'm pretty sure they don't since I think I saw a Riflic 10 in a shop somewhere) they're pretty mediocre. The Raihoc looks sweet but comparing PP levels to a Falgohoh is like night and day. If you mainly group, well, the kubara rifles are fun because of coolness points and all, but if you're soloing it helps to have the extra PP stock/recharge rate that the Yohmei 6*s have. I carry 4 +8 Falgohohs and they do solid damage and last awhile. If I really wanted to slam things for damage, I'd adjust my setup so my Phantom set is on and swallow an Agtaride.

Of course, for best damage I find that crossbows are hands-down amazing. With my Lv 63/ Forte 7 char, Lv 29 Ice crossbow volleys do around 900 damage (assuming 3 shots hit) to Mizu S worms after a Lv3 atk buff spell. Worms? Annoying? Not anymore http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Kelevra]

All in all i don't know why you would use kuabara wood on anything?
1 -You Increase the gamble on synthing to make the weapon.
2 - You have to grind it 2 or 3 times to make it equal to the regular weapons (Gambling Further)
3 - You might end up with nothing rather than something? It seems pretty stupid to me?

[Carbinne]

Main reason to is because if you use it on a certain something you make one of the tip top tier bows in the entire game.

You could also make a Gur Nedac if you want more PP too since it gets a nice amount more, though the damage on it sucks.

[ayrista]

just for the record, my arb hadoc 6* +6 is stronger then my bulletmaster.

[Realmz]

On 2007-01-17 06:30, Carbinne wrote:
Main reason to is because if you use it on a certain something you make one of the tip top tier bows in the entire game.

You could also make a Gur Nedac if you want more PP too since it gets a nice amount more, though the damage on it sucks.



shoot, i love my ten shot limit with lv21 bullets, why would i want more PP

[foamcup]

On 2007-01-16 22:38, Itsuki-chan wrote:


You also have to consider that kubara have fixed synth rates (to my knowledge), so you can synth them without having a proper PM. And you have to consider on all servers except for the US PC/PS2 is probably cheaper to synth kubara than it is to synth normal. (atleast last time I synthed kubara on the jp server, kubara wood ran for like 200 meseta).



Can anyone verify the fixed success rate? I'd go buy a board, but come on, that's 20 scape dolls, and mainly because I don't want to have a board I can't synth stuck in my 450. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: foamcup on 2007-01-17 08:23 ]</font>

[Wheatpenny]

Speaking on the topic of Kabura Grinded Guns.
Anyone got the grind statistics each level for the
Gur Nedac. I made 2 for my future fortegunner and was wonderin how well that goes.

[isahn80]

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i100/isahn80/riflic.jpg

Best rifle currently available (that's legit, anyway). Not only is ATP and PP better than any A-rank, but the ATA requirement is low.

Sure, the Phantom Rifle/Phantom Line setup bonus is better, but I carry armor for each element and not all of it is Phantom Line...

Kubara pretty much sucks until you get it to +10. Then it owns.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: isahn80 on 2007-01-17 09:33 ]</font>

[Carbinne]

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5175/falgohohoz8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Superior. Though personally I stick with +8s for now.

[Edman]

Yeah, the US psupedia was wrong so i corrected it. My whole thing against kubara was based off my first 2 or 3 grinds and then checking that site for the comparison of the last flew levels. Turns out they were wrong.

But still, If you look at the regular GRM/Yomieh 6* rifles, they aren't that much worse at 10 grinds. The Falcon has about +30 pp and ATA over the Riflic, for -30 ATP. The only thing that would really change my mind is the fact that the Falcon is purple and the Riflic is dark gray.

And if you look at the level 10 grind stats of every weapon, the Phantom is still the best. with 641 atp (and at that point, around 160 bonus for phantomline) it's better than even the 8* kubara. That is, if you're insane enough to take the risk.

[Edman]

Oh, and they don't have fixed rates.

They have a fixed % drop from your regular rate if anything.

[panzer_unit]

Edman's got a good point: Kubara weapons grind awesome and are really damn nice at +10, but they don't own other options that badly. Sure Alteric+10 has a lot more ATA, but it's only 50 more ATP than the +10 Hikauri I'm going after... and on PS2 at least I can blow up a lot of Hikauri's for the price of one Alteric.

[JaiBlue]

How can anyone not like a gun thats say pow when you shoot it? *scratches head*

[Zato-2TWO]

Well for one thing, +10 Kubara weapons are important for us Protransers, who can't get their hands on S-rank weapons. At the very least until we have enough money to grind A-rank weapons to +10, or get the A-rank Kubara replicas to +10, this is the best we can get.

[Reiichi]

For the price of a single +10 riflic you can get a set of 6 phantom rifles and a phantomline if not a set, not sure on the market of those now. Sadly the same could probably be said about a +10 falgohoh too, though to not as much of a degree. PC/PS2 only of course.

[Sephlock]

Am I spelling it wrong, or is NO ONE selling any Degahna Cannons on the 360? How much might they go for anyway?

-- I realize the price is going to be way out of my league, I'm just curious.

[isahn80]

On 2007-01-17 10:16, Carbinne wrote:
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5175/falgohohoz8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Superior.



Bullshit. The extra Att. of the +10 Riflic owns.

Honestly, you don't need PP with photon charges (which are cheap) and as a Fortegunner the Acc. bonus is negligable (Guntechers might want to pick this up though, since their ATA is lower).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: isahn80 on 2007-01-18 01:27 ]</font>

[Zato-2TWO]

Another thing I noticed about the Shigga Damduc +10 vs the Shigga Brada; the Damduc has INSANE PP regen rate. Tenora weapons are notorious for low PP costs and slow regen, although being the only shotgun manufacturers they can get away with having that. But the Damduc regens something like 10 PP per tick! With an empty Damduc, I could sit in an empty room, get up and make tea, come back and I'd have enough PP to take on another room!

The increased PP count of the Damduc is also outstanding. I can't measure how many shotguns I burned through before being able to use the Damduc, but now I rarely ever have to change out of it! If I run low, I could just let the regen kick in while running across long stretches, and I'll be good to go!

[imfanboy]

Yeh, I've noticed that with my Arb Hadocs, they have quite good PP regen rate, particularly for Tenora-based guns. Heck, they beat the heck out of GRM stuff too, and my attempts at getting a Ryo-Rayratore up to high grind have shown that the Ryo wouldn't be close to the ATP of the Arb Hadocs. sorry, no fancy stat pictures, but there IS this one of course:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/iamfanboy/steyrface.jpg

The stats at (10) are:

PP 864
ATP 221
ATA 86
COOL FACTOR 11/10...ERROR...ERROR...CALCULATORY BANKS FAILING....

Even at (5) it has 173 ATP - which is pretty darned good, considering.


....But because it does have pretty lousy PP (despite the high ATP), I generally keep a couple of backups. Which reminds me, time to synth some more... I only have 2, now. <_<


As far as Rifloc v. Falgohoh 10, I think I'd prefer the PP pool - Photon Charges are only cheap if you have an unlimited amount of meseta, and the Yohmei rifle, I think, looks more interesting than the GRM.

[Carbinne]

If ATP was the only thing that was important and PP didn't matter the only rifles we'd see would be the Phantom combo. But of course there are problems with doing that. I use Falgohohs for PP, burn status and good damage, Phantoms as blockbusters and 8* Crossbows with attack ups for huge damage + excellent freezing ability. +10 Riflic is solid, yeah, but I'm pretty happy with four Falghoh +8s.

[Edman]

On 2007-01-18 02:17, Zato-2TWO wrote:
Another thing I noticed about the Shigga Damduc +10 vs the Shigga Brada; the Damduc has INSANE PP regen rate. Tenora weapons are notorious for low PP costs and slow regen, although being the only shotgun manufacturers they can get away with having that. But the Damduc regens something like 10 PP per tick! With an empty Damduc, I could sit in an empty room, get up and make tea, come back and I'd have enough PP to take on another room!


Uhh... I dont know about you, buy my Tenora Shotguns charge at 12pp per tick. And last time I checked, 12 was more than 10.

I know because my shotgun took 12 pp to shoot. At 0 pp, one tick was exactly enough for a shot.

[DRO]

DELETE THIS THREAD QUICK!!!!


MY CAST MAKES A LIVING OFF OF SYNTHING KUBARA WEAPONS!!! YOU TRYIN MAKE ME FILE BANKRUPTCY??????

LOL J/K


BUT I DO MAKE A LOT OF KUBARA ITEMS...I JUST THINK THE ARE KIND OF UNIQUE

BTW

8* BEAM VULCANIC SUCKS!!!!!!!!