SA nerfing of a lifetime. (new update related)

[Lyrise]

First of all, this thread is going to be something we importers are going to use as a way to document all the rebalances that has happened in the game as a result of the new update. Most hunters....will not be very pleased with the results.

Twin Sabers:

Assault Crush: Damage boosted (180 > 185%)
Rising Crush: Damage buffered (195% > 180%)
Splendor Crush: Damage boosted (145 > 155%)

DoubleSabers:

Tornado Dance: damage boosted ( 165 > 170)
Gravity Dance: Damage boosted (120 > 130)
Spiral Dance: Damage lowered (145 > 135)

Spears: ( a LOT of you will hate this one)

Deus Duggas: damage dropped (190 > 160)
Deus Robad: PP use reduced

Sabers:

Rising Strike: damage lowered (180> 160)
Gravity strike: damage lowered (145 > 140)

Twin Daggers: ( alot of people will hate this one too)

Renkaibuyouzan: large damage drop (165 > 138)




More to be added as time passes, haven't listed any other changes like targeting or PP reduce.

BTW, this new update, fixes the unlimited synth retries bug AND to the disappointment of many, the clothing glitch.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2007-01-18 01:56 ]</font>

[Itsuki]

WTs == bent over and taking it.

[Nani-chan]

Yeah, was about to say Dus Daggas and Renkai were good damage for my Beast WT.. Dus Dagas especially was a good 300-600 x 5 combo. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Lyrise]

On 2007-01-18 01:58, Itsuki-chan wrote:
WTs == bent over and taking it.



Of course, they still hold their advantage as the most defensive class in the game. It only makes sense to keep them from dominating the offense too.

[Remedy]

please please please please please PLEASE GET ME DAMUBARTA INFORMATION

[Lyrise]

No techniques were even touched in the rebalanced. Only a few bullets, and a ton of Skills.

[Retehi]

Oh god no. What bullets were touched? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Remedy]

Which bullets?!

[Alisha]

im sure few will agree but this update is full of win. i'm eager to see how sword pa's were effected.

[Itsuki]

Full list of what was touched:

Skills:
Sword - all
Knuckles - Ult PA
Spear - all
Double Saber - all
Axe - all
Twin Saber - all
Twin Dagger - Renkai
Twin Claw - all
Saber - all
Claw - all

Bullets:
Shotgun - all
Longbow - Ult PA
Laser - all
Twin Handgun - Ult PA
Crossbow - Ult PA
Machinegun - All elemental (Ult was untouched).

EDIT: Keep in mind, this is not necessarily nerfs. Some were made stronger, some only had PP cost changes, some were nerfed to hell. Case by case basis.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-01-18 02:08 ]</font>

[Retehi]

Can you give specifics on the bullets though? What was "nerfed", and what was made better?

[Itsuki]

On 2007-01-18 02:09, Retehi wrote:
Can you give specifics on the bullets though? What was "nerfed", and what was made better?



If I could get on, I would tell you. With time this will be updated. Not everything has been tested yet.

Another example of what needs to be tested still is the Sword PAs, which I don't think had any percent changes. Which means range/number of hits had to have been changed. (unless I couldn't follow the channel talk correctly and it was a PP change).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-01-18 02:12 ]</font>

[Remedy]

On 2007-01-18 02:06, Alisha wrote:
im sure few will agree but this update is full of win. i'm eager to see how sword pa's were effected.I agree. Good to see the noob cannons getting shut down (Renkai, I am looking square at you).

[Sexy_Raine]

All I got to say is they better not nerf the shotgun's x5 lv3 SE's at close range, or I'm going to be pissed. I enjoy abusing that.

[Alisha]

i'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that both shotguns and lasers were buffed. and if swords got an increase in the number of targets they can hit... i'll be in the shower >.>

[Remedy]

Raine, they don't have L3 SEs, they have L2 SEs. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

It would be NICE if the had L3 SEs, however.

[Soukosa]

Wonder what they did to the Ult Longbow PA. Probably buffed the machine gun PAs since so far, they kinda suck.

[Zato-2TWO]

I, as many others probably will, tearfully mourn the loss of the swimsuit glitch. However, if Itsuki's observation on the glitch's mechanics are correct, then that means duping should be fixed too!

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2007-01-18 02:28, Remedy wrote:
Raine, they don't have L3 SEs, they have L2 SEs. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

It would be NICE if the had L3 SEs, however.



Oops, must've typed too fast. I wish it was 3 too.

[Itsuki]

Straight from Wren -> Shotguns got a 10% atp boost, Mechs got a 15% atp boost and elemental % boost. (maybe shotguns will outdamage cards now XD)

[Alisha]

from irc chan.

mechguns 15% atp boost

shotguns 10% atp boost.

[Lyrise]

All ultimate bullet arts that inflict debuffs, will now inflict lv3, instead of 2.

[Sexy_Raine]

Sweet, shotgun gets incresed damage. Can't wait to abuse the 5x damage at close range now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Retehi]

Thank you Lyrise, and Itsuki-chan, wonderful news for bullets. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Retehi on 2007-01-18 02:46 ]</font>

[Alisha]

On 2007-01-18 02:38, Lyrise wrote:
All ultimate bullet arts that inflict debuffs, will now inflict lv3, instead of 2.



wow isnt that pretty nice for guntechers?

[-Shimarisu-]

I quit PSU.

No really, this has pretty much ruined my characters.

[Ether]

On 2007-01-18 01:56, Lyrise wrote:

Rising Crush: Damage buffered (195% > 180%)
Spiral Dance: Damage lowered (145 > 135)
Deus Duggas: damage dropped (190 > 160)
Rising Strike: damage lowered (180> 160)
Renkaibuyouzan: large damage drop (165 > 138)

fixes the unlimited synth retries bug AND to the disappointment of many, the clothing glitch.


Lame, lame, LAME. Why would you nerf hunters, buff what already seemed like the strongest ranger weapons (shotgun) and leave forces?

Nerfing never does anything but piss people off. If you want to adjust the balance, buff whats weak, not completely ruin whats strong.

[Weakness]

On 2007-01-18 03:43, Ether wrote:

On 2007-01-18 01:56, Lyrise wrote:

Rising Crush: Damage buffered (195% > 180%)
Spiral Dance: Damage lowered (145 > 135)
Deus Duggas: damage dropped (190 > 160)
Rising Strike: damage lowered (180> 160)
Renkaibuyouzan: large damage drop (165 > 138)

fixes the unlimited synth retries bug AND to the disappointment of many, the clothing glitch.


Lame, lame, LAME. Why would you nerf hunters, buff what already seemed like the strongest ranger weapons (shotgun) and leave forces?

Nerfing never does anything but piss people off. If you want to adjust the balance, buff whats weak, not completely ruin whats strong.



In theory lowering the stronger stats is doing the same thing as raising the lower stats.

On a side note, thank god I am a ForteGunner.

[Miyoko]

You COULD keep buffing everything, and not nerfing anything... Untill everything is overpowered, and they do a complete, global nerf. ;p

[Lyrise]

On 2007-01-18 03:43, Ether wrote:

On 2007-01-18 01:56, Lyrise wrote:

Rising Crush: Damage buffered (195% > 180%)
Spiral Dance: Damage lowered (145 > 135)
Deus Duggas: damage dropped (190 > 160)
Rising Strike: damage lowered (180> 160)
Renkaibuyouzan: large damage drop (165 > 138)

fixes the unlimited synth retries bug AND to the disappointment of many, the clothing glitch.


Lame, lame, LAME. Why would you nerf hunters, buff what already seemed like the strongest ranger weapons (shotgun) and leave forces?

Nerfing never does anything but piss people off. If you want to adjust the balance, buff whats weak, not completely ruin whats strong.



In this case, it's what needs to be done. High PA damage modifiers + high element damage modifiers = more detrimental to balance than if you nerf everything else.

[Ether]

Still, I don't think a 30% drop in damage was needed. A level 1 dus daggas on the US server is now the same strength as a level 30 one on the JP server, minus the extra combo hits. Thats a bit extreme

[Itsuki]

On 2007-01-18 03:56, Ether wrote:
Still, I don't think a 30% drop in damage was needed. A level 1 dus daggas on the US server is now the same strength as a level 30 one on the JP server, minus the extra combo hits. Thats a bit extreme


But on the other hand, Hunters are extraordinarily overpowered when compared to other classes in the JP version.

When it comes down to it, this is a big nerf to the highest damage classes (hunters) and a big buff to the lwoest damage classes (rangers).

[Ether]

Hunters should be the highest damage class though

Granted this is all Segas fault for using percents to balance everything, its just like in PSO v2 where at high levels certain weapons benefit too much from your own base atp, and the numbers start to get out of control. The only difference now is that Sega can ruin your character overnight.

[-Shimarisu-]

My main's a fucking ranger, I play with a fortefighter, I like him doing all the damage while I back him up.

MY MAIN'S A RANGER AND I'M STILL SO FUCKING ANGRY.

OK tell me why ranger needs a fucking DAMAGE bonus again when we can stun a fuckton of shit and make the game 100% easier for everyone? So what are rangers now, the new fortetecher? Let's stand still and rape everything from a distance, nobody else need exist. Seriously I don't want my class to be a piece of piss to play, and that's why DESPITE qualifying for fortetecher I didn't touch that shit. I wanted to backup hunters, who are the damage dealers.

Let's look at rangers and forces cheer while the hunters cry. This ranger is fucking WEEPING over this.

Oh yeah and my secondary was a wartecher. I'd like to not suck plz k thx.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-01-18 04:20 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

The game was fucking perfect from my perspective and I was never jealous of the hunters damage.

This is all a result of silly babies complaining to ST cause they want to pwn up shit as a ranger and be seriously unbalanced, just as they were in PSO.

[Sc0pe]

any news on the single claw PP cost?

[McLaughlin]

Umm...

If I read that right, Rising Strike got dropped substantially. Do they LIKE making everyone use a particular weapon? I love Sabers, but there's only so much I can do with 0 damage >_> The PAs are weak as **** sd they were. Now they're useless.

Thanks for ****ing Fighgunner up the ass ST. You tanked Sabers, Twin Sabers, Twin Daggers, Single Daggers, and (by the looks of it) Twin Handguns, and Handguns.

I feel horribly for Wartecher though.

[Magician]

Any concrete info of the adjustment to Shousen Totsuzan-ga?

It's the only PA I use, the others are of little concern to me, but at level 30 the claw PA tops out at 150%. Seems skill PA are getting the shaft, I just hope the drop on the claw isn't too severe.

[-Shimarisu-]

I still want to know how you can sodding well justify releasing stats in a fucking book and letting people go out and spend freaking HUNDREDS OF HOURS on building characters based on that information then piddle all over it.

[MayLee]

Wow, could it get any worse? o.O

[McLaughlin]

What's worse Shim, Assault Crush is down to 145%

At least this makes being on the fence about resubscribing a whole lot easier.

[-Shimarisu-]

Oh I forgot how much PP Rising Crush eats up too, so much so that fighgunners only pull it out when it's needed to help the party because 50 fucking vandas are on their asses.

Here's a good idea Sega. INCREASE the PP cost. Make it do 1 damage a hit, capped. Make all characters rated over 6 out of 10 on the "hotness" scale wear sackcloth. And a paper bag over their heads. Apply your evaluation of this based on results of equations garnered from figures attained at complete random points on the character create scale.

[Hydra_Zephon]

User has received a warning for this post.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Arislan on 2007-01-18 06:55 ]</font>

[karryt]

On 2007-01-18 02:00, Lyrise wrote:
Of course, they still hold their advantage as the most defensive class in the game. It only makes sense to keep them from dominating the offense too.

Ah, but from what I've seen, WTs have hardly dominated anything offensively. I'm a level 57 WT 5 and I do okay damage, but nothing compared to what the fortefighters are doing.

I'm afraid taking spears and twin daggers away as effective weapons for WTs leaves them with little to offer to an S rank party. Sure they have a lot of defense, but what good does it do them if they do little damage, do little status effects, and have gimped techs compared to fortetechers? Wouldn't you rather just grab another ranger, fortefighter, or fortetecher?

[-Shimarisu-]

Renkai requires skill not to get hit, you try having to stand in a herd of monsters and pull it off, it only works on small fry, I would NEVER use it in a dangerous situation unless I postioned myself right. Just because most of the people using it are fucking noobs does not make everybody using it a fucking noob. Rising Crush did less damage but flung shit in the air - the ideal hunter support PA. God I LOVED that PA. Past tense being the operative.

[Miyoko]

Wow, people are going overboard about this. Is it really going to affect you THAT much? Since when is the nerf of a PA, something you don't even use for 100% of your attacks (I hope) going to completely break your character? Controll type PA's aren't losing their crowd controll aspect...

A lot of these nerfs aren't even really that huge. I'll agree that some of them seem a bit excessive (Dus Daggas, for instance), and some of them really deserve it (Renkaibuyouzan. Say otherwise and you're a twit. Sure, it's fun as heck to use, but good lord, let's call a spade a spade; is it overpowered.), but for the most part, doesn't seem to be all that bad... Noticble? Probably. But how much longer is it going to take for you to kill a mob? 5 seconds? 10, maybe?

-Shimarisu-, if you're getting upset like this over these nerfs, you should've seen the City of Heroes "Enhancement Divirsification" nerf. They technically nerfed some abilities by over 103% ;p

[Nayte]

Sega could have just made changes on sly and you'd all be none the wiser. I think i and everyone else will survive, even with the changes.

[Ether]

On 2007-01-18 02:17, Remedy wrote: agree. Good to see the noob cannons getting shut down (Renkai, I am looking square at you)


LOL you sure got confident once you found out dambarta wasn't touched. Hypocrite much?


On 2007-01-16 03:18, Remedy wrote:
Damubarta > life itself.

<3 my Damubarta. <3 <3 <3


On 2007-01-16 17:42, Remedy wrote:
Nothing tops 700+ damage per second to almost everything I can look at.

So how a spell that rapidly hits everything around you in a huge aoe, causes stun every hit, with a high chance to inflict level 3 freeze isn't overpowered, but Renkai is

lol noob cannon (http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1705/itsovercu0.jpg) (and thats not even level 21+ and no element)

[Para]

Ouch Renkai took a nasty hit... but its more on par with moubu now imo.
Too bad I plan to only spam yoyo daggers only XD

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2007-01-18 03:43, Ether wrote:

On 2007-01-18 01:56, Lyrise wrote:

Rising Crush: Damage buffered (195% > 180%)
Spiral Dance: Damage lowered (145 > 135)
Deus Duggas: damage dropped (190 > 160)
Rising Strike: damage lowered (180> 160)
Renkaibuyouzan: large damage drop (165 > 138)

fixes the unlimited synth retries bug AND to the disappointment of many, the clothing glitch.


Lame, lame, LAME. Why would you nerf hunters, buff what already seemed like the strongest ranger weapons (shotgun) and leave forces?

Nerfing never does anything but piss people off. If you want to adjust the balance, buff whats weak, not completely ruin whats strong.



totally agree. I hate how they weakened of of the PAs yet they powered up the most broken PA of them all, Tornado Dance.

[trust_kill]

Wartechers just got destroyed.

[SabZero]

Do we get the glitch fix now or only with a later update?

[Razelchen]

I have to agree with Shim. My fortefighter (lvl 55/5) just was able to afford good Elemental Twin Daggers, Spears and Knuckles (one of each element = 18 total). Now they gimped two of my main weapons. And I am broke too. They were my favorite weapons and not only for the damage. I don't like the slow sword.

@Miyoko

You can't compare that to City of Heroes. The Devs in CoH never ever stealth nerf and don't forget they adjusted the mobs with ED, so technically you are still doing the same dmg. I love ED because I am now free to slot something else, instead of just 6 slotting dmg.

[Arislan]

Hydra - While we don't have many rules around here, we do monitor and enforce the ones we do have. We don't appreciate the flaming of other members, and especially dislike the use of racial slurs. Please do either in the future. I understand you're new, and I would suggest reading the forum rules to become more acquainted.

[Johan]

On 2007-01-18 06:45, Razelchen wrote:
I have to agree with Shim. My fortefighter (lvl 55/5) just was able to afford good Elemental Twin Daggers, Spears and Knuckles (one of each element = 18 total). Now they gimped two of my main weapons. And I am broke too. They were my favorite weapons and not only for the damage. I don't like the slow sword.

@Miyoko

You can't compare that to City of Heroes. The Devs in CoH never ever stealth nerf and don't forget they adjusted the mobs with ED, so technically you are still doing the same dmg. I love ED because I am now free to slot something else, instead of just 6 slotting dmg.



The only thing they adjusted was XP gain, to compensate for killing stuff slower. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif ED was still probably good for the game overall, though.

[fireant]

On 2007-01-18 02:35, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Straight from Wren -> Shotguns got a 10% atp boost, Mechs got a 15% atp boost and elemental % boost. (maybe shotguns will outdamage cards now XD)


Cool, i was hopeing for some Mechgun love http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_ak.gif

[Seira7]

Any news on the first single dagger PA, Buten Shuren-zan? That baby is my bread and butter. Too bad about all the hunter nerfs. Hunter is my favorite class to play, so the allure of this game has lost a bit of its sparkle for me -_-

[Gen2000]

ST trying to kill off what little population this game had? Hm.


Twin Daggers: ( alot of people will hate this one too)

Renkaibuyouzan: large damage drop (165 > 138)

Ouch... but will they really stop Renaki spamming though? Just spam it 3-5(6,7 8?? lol) times more for the kills instead now?

[RadiantLegend]

hmmm. i just want to know one thing...

Please oh please dont tell me they nerfed the 2nd axe PA. Please oh please. I dont want to quit this game.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-18 08:15, Gen2000 wrote:
ST trying to kill off what little population this game had? Hm.


Anyone remember HUcasts with high-% mechguns from the original PSO? The weapons that took serious cuts are all exactly like that. Low base ATP (and huge % boosts on total ATP from element) w/ rapid fire attacks.

Except Spear of course which was a high base ATP weapon with rapid-fire attacks O_o' ... I admit I'll miss Dus Daggas. It was like The People's Weapon, anyone could kick ass with one of those. If it turns out Sword / Spinning Break is better now I'll just switch and focus on making and carrying swords.

WarTechers who are bitching about techniques: what, can you not cast Damubarta or something? Jesus you just got a ton of retardedly powerful new spells that require standing in melee range, which should be something you're really good at. Cry more.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-18 08:58 ]</font>

[Maridia]

Some of us WT's are more built for melee than for techs, that's all. We aren't all newmans lolz

[Skuda]

As sad as I am about dus daggus, I knew it was coming.

I'm really worried about all the claw and twin claw PAs though. I've been focusing on claws, and if they get a total nerf bombing, I'm screwed.

[Pure-chan]

HU doing a little less
+ RA doing a little more
--------------------------
Angst D:

[panzer_unit]

No info on Axes or Knuckles, among other weapons Pure. I don't think you'd feel bad about those things getting boosts or at least being left alone.

[Laranas]

I stopped using Renkai much, so it doesn't affect me too much thankfully. I'd hate a nerf like that earlier.

[RadiantLegend]

>_< no info on axe?????????

[Reiichi]

Dus daggas and renkei were overpowered. We all knew this. Balancing those are fine....

but....

why the heck boost rangers?

And if I lose my glitched clothing setup then I just lost 75% of my will to play the game. It hurts that much ;-;

[ShinMaruku]

On 2007-01-18 08:59, Maridia wrote:
Some of us WT's are more built for melee than for techs, that's all. We aren't all newmans lolz

I guess then I'm lukcy then.. I can still roast.... but if you really are pissed bout the nerfs you can be evil with ATP on weapons but know you guys wouldn't do that so, you can either wait for that to hit the US or if they have sense when it comes to US make it more apt than this silliness they got.
I say it once and I'll say it again, we need a newly staffed ST.

[Gen2000]

BTW, this new update, fixes the unlimited synth retries bug AND to the disappointment of many, the clothing glitch.

Haha, just noticed this. Oh wow, so much for getting hard to find/super expensive Boards and just only having to worry about mats. I feel this will fuel hacking even more. Did the clothing glitch really hurt anything? A few assless Casts running around but it was nothing major. The clothing mix options already suck now they take away one of the few ways to make your char unique. GG.


It's Sonic Team not Sega... AM2 would slap the shit outta ST. VFFT for the win.

So true.

[Wheatpenny]

If the atp they took off of Dus Dagas gets added to Anga Redda I might forgive ST.

By the way I heard that protransers are gona get their own special traps called EX traps..can any of you importer fellows confirm this?

[Maridia]

Oh god, I just saw the part about the clothing glitch XD NOOOOOOOOOOO!!

Well, guys, have fun with it while you can. Take loads of pics and store them away to pine over when the update finally makes it here. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-01-18 09:42, Wheatpenny wrote:
By the way I heard that protransers are gona get their own special traps called EX traps..can any of you importer fellows confirm this?


oh... oh my... time to dust off those All Your Base macros.

EDIT: yeah track down the one Protranser on the JP servers and ask what the scouter says about their power level plz.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-18 09:51 ]</font>

[Pure-chan]

On 2007-01-18 09:06, panzer_unit wrote:
No info on Axes or Knuckles, among other weapons Pure. I don't think you'd feel bad about those things getting boosts or at least being left alone.



I dunno... I'm not OCD about dps/optimization, so I'm really not worried either way. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif A little bump in damage, or reduction in PP cost for Twin Claws would be sort of nice.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I wish they'd reduce the PP usage of twin saber arts so that we can spam the PAs for them more often. sux that they weakened down rising crush though, but I'm sure its still helpful in sending the mobs flying all over the place.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

well, I am glad to know that twin sabers got damage boosted for the other arts. but I am pissed that shotguns get more damage, rangers aren't even supposed to be damage dealers, what the hell sega?

[panzer_unit]

I thought shotguns were there so Rangers could substitute as a halfass hunter if required. What is this, Everquest? Let classes have some diversity.

[Lyrise]

Ok, to whoever said that Tornado Dance shouldn't have been boosted, consider this: Tornado Dance costs 40 PP per use. Maybe it's just me, but 40PP is a LOT for one use.

To another person who must've misread my OP, Assault crush damage went UP, not down.

To everyone in general, while myself and a ton of the Japanese community loathe some of these changes, its pretty much concensus that these were VERY necessary. The only reason why we didn't like it, and I'll admit, is because some of these created an all too easy comfort zone for us.

Though there are still some changes that should never have been made, and I'm pretty sure that those are the ones ST will try to re-adjust again given the high level of complaints on some of them. Such as why Renkaibuyouzan was nerfed, and Butenshuurenzan was NOT.

[Rizen]

Why shouldnt rangers get damage boost? Its not like we will be blowing hunters or forces away in damage with one little boost. Anyway, Figunners can use shotguns right?

[Axel3792]

WTF Dus Daggas!? noooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Gazette]

Ouch, renkai didn't need THAT big of a hit...
So much for my WT using melee...

The only attack my newman can pull out now for high damage is rising crush...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gazette on 2007-01-18 10:15 ]</font>

[Rizen]

I think I remember Itsuki saying somewhere that if you unplug your cable after you check your synth, it is an automatic failure. So you can not reuse the same charge on the board anymore with this patch.

[February]

On 2007-01-18 10:08, Rizen wrote:
Figunners can use shotguns right?



nope

[ArcanaSaber]

as with the others I prefer Assault Crush over the other 2.
Mass mob wise, AC for easy win ; D

and with Spear getting gimped like that I dont feel as bad using a weaker weapon choice lol.

[Lyrise]

On 2007-01-18 10:22, Rizen wrote:
I think I remember Itsuki saying somewhere that if you unplug your cable after you check your synth, it is an automatic failure. So you can not reuse the same charge on the board anymore with this patch.



Not quite. They fixed this problem the best way possible. The moment the synth timer hits 0:00, the command for cancel is disabled.

[Rizen]

On 2007-01-18 10:30, heavenly6 wrote:I just went to check the list (I have the game idling) Twins, Handguns, Crossbow and mech guns.

All very nice choices of guns. Main reason I want to make my Protranser secondary Figunner. Also the double saber you gave me also helped me decide (still in his inventory). http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif


On 2007-01-18 10:31, Lyrise wrote:Not quite. They fixed this problem the best way possible. The moment the synth timer hits 0:00, the command for cancel is disabled.

Ah nipping it in the butt eh? Looks like ST is looking for best solutions...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rizen on 2007-01-18 10:38 ]</font>

[February]

It's not a bad selection at all. It gets the job done, 'cause at least you can still use guns for boss fights and melee for whatever else http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Rizen]

Yeah, the twin saber boosts also make me happy. Now Im waiting to see how they buffed traps >> <<

[Reiichi]

Synth cancelling fix only really hurts 360/JP. I guess this means the price of scape dolls will go down!

[Sgt_Shligger]

user received a verbal warning for this post.
keep up the good work.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2007-01-18 23:25 ]</font>

[Gulkeeva]

Looks like... the update is going to help me out on what I already use with lowered PP cost/damage boost. I mainly use axe anyway. Its nice seeing criticals of 1300~1600 on several targets... mobs dying everywhere.. OH MY GOD THE CARNAGE!

GOing to miss the clothes glitch.. I hope we get the... "other" swimsuit soon O_o

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gulkeeva on 2007-01-18 10:53 ]</font>

[Itsuki]

On 2007-01-18 10:47, Reiichi wrote:
Synth cancelling fix only really hurts 360/JP. I guess this means the price of scape dolls will go down!



Not at all, because of the huge inflation, rare drop only boards are only obtainable by drop only (atleast not obtainable by the beginner hackers). This means you're still going to see an increase in the value of Halarods and Claire Doubles.

[Syanaide]

The Dus Robado lowered PP cost makes me happy.

Alternatively, the Twin Daggers nerf makes me excited. Like all hunters, I abuse and love Renaki Buyou-zan, but having a godly PA like that is quite ridiculous. I'm a Fortefighter, but half of my pallete is Twin Daggers, and I don't even get S Ranks in them.

Nerfing it gives me (and hopefully others) more incentive to use other weapons.

[XHunter]

Well i'm assuming....that all the changes to skills, techniques...will all be the same for the 360 but will the swimsuit glitch and unlimited synth be fixed for the 360?

[Reiichi]

Did anyone post the changes to sword yet? Spinning break might be on par with dus daggas now (higher damage but slower) but I hope it gets buffed even more same with tornado break having to compete with a lower pp robado.

Swords overall should really be designed to be king over spears, as less jobs can use them.

[Zato-2TWO]

Did any of you guys stop to think that if this rebalance doesn't work out well with PSU JP, that PSU US/EU might not get it? If I recall correctly, the bane of PSU JP importers was the fact that JP have to test the acid first, and deal with all the bugs and problems so that US/EU doesn't. If this rebalance really causes problems for the game, perhaps US/EU won't receive it at all and only take the bug patches.

[RyuKisargi]

I don't mind. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

But I better still be half-naked when I relog on Friday! :E

[Shadow_Wing]

Deus Duggas: damage dropped (190 > 160)
T_T not my overly broken Dus Duggas T_T

Still don't expect a Ranger to out damage a Hu with this update...

[Gamemako]

God. Damubarta is still psycho-strong and they nerf all of my Wartecher's melee skills.

I was about to post about why Hunters were unfairly the weakest class. But SEGA beat me to the punch and made them weaker still. Great idea.

Seriously, before those changes, rangers already outdamaged hunters. SE4 burn in S-ranks can tear off 800-1300 a tick on many opponents, and a ranger can safely toast 5 enemies at a time while adding on 300 damage per shot.

And rangers are so goddamn easy to play -- no worries about elemental percent or PA leveling or anything. It's all automated. Just line up and shoot. Not bloody fair.

[Gazette]

Really WT did get the short end of the string on this.
Though Renkai is overly used, people have to remember it really is the only viable PA we have to use aside from the single dagger PA once S ranks come out.
Assuming that the Ulti. PA isn't majorly powerful.

It looks like single sabers are the way to go for big numbers now.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gazette on 2007-01-18 12:05 ]</font>

[Shadow_Wing]

Big units really don't count since they only take up 5% of all the mobs in any givin stage. Rangers are designed to take down big units easily but I'm not gonna say with this update that Rangers will outdamage a Hunter with smaller units. Something about my fF friend doing 1200/hit with his axe against a vhara and I'm still hitting around 500-600 range.

And yes sure we get pretty easy time with our elements but have you ever leveled any ammo to 30? Ha PA leveling, my ex-Force friend admits that ammo leveling is more annoying and slower than tech leveling, and they congratulate me on the fact I got a good chunk of my ammo post 20+.

Me and my friend have pretty equal playtime, he's a fF and I'm a fG and hell he has all cept claws to 30 while my dark shot is STILL 19.5. Don't give me this we get it ez BS cause we really don't it's a pain in the azz to level up our ammo compared to Hunters.

[Sychosis]

While I am all for stopping the board exploit, I really do hope it hasn't doomed the PC/PS2 version to a horrible hackfest. I can already hear the BS justifications for hacking after their 49% failed once...

[Ryoki]

user scored a verbal warning with this post.
congratulations.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2007-01-18 23:27 ]</font>

[AC9breaker]

TRAP INFO PLZZZ

[Pure-chan]

Just think of how much this would have sucked after dumping meseta into S ranks... Better now, then after blowing 2X Mil on weps. Y_Y

[Jozon]

What in god's name did they do to my beloved axe?

would anyone happen to know when this update will affect NA?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jozon on 2007-01-18 12:57 ]</font>

[Reiichi]

Will only get worse for hunters on PC/PS2 when A grinders come out and rangers are running around with a full palette of +10 phantoms along with +10 shotguns and other toys. Remember the happy newbie days when rangers sucked for dps and hunters owned?

[Dein]

Looking at this list I don't see Fighgunner being hit that hard from my point of view. Gravity Dance and Tornado Dance are getting boosted while Spiral Dance gets cut down a little to even things out, Assault Crush is getting a little stronger like it was meant to be, the Ult Dagger PA will still be an even better choice now with Renkai's nerf, and Gravity Strike losing 5% is laughable. I can pull off 300-400 dmg hits with a store bought Rapier on fire based monsters as a lvl 66 FG 8 and Gravity Strike is only 23 still. I've got to ask though, why was Rising Strike listed as 180% > 160% for the change when Rising Crush is capped and sitting at 160%?

[ShadowDragon28]

I was afraid of this. *sigh* Why ST, why? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[McLaughlin]

Hopefully it means Rising Strike went from 160% to 180%.

[Ryna]

Let's keep the discussion related to the stats involved in the rebalancing of Photon Arts. If you want to discuss the implications of this rebalancing for various races/jobs, start a new thread.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-01-18 01:56, Lyrise wrote:
Deus Duggas: damage dropped (190 > 160)
Renkaibuyouzan: large damage drop (165 > 138)
Well, looks like it's time to ditch my Wartecher and start in on a Fortetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetetcher, yay.

Seriously, my Beast Wartecher will probably do more damage now with Dambarta than he will with melee, and that's just pathetic.



And WTF is with buffing ranger damage? What the fuck is this, PSO?

But yeah, pretty much everything Shim said is 100% true. This isn't a "rebalancing," it's an "unbalancing."

The Rising Crush nerf doesn't bother me too much, since the PA is best used to floor or stun-lock enemies anyway.

Dus Daggas, however, is good for one thing: damage. It's now practically worthless, meaning WT now has no strong multi-enemy weapon. Nerfing Renkai Buyou-zan only makes matters worse. Again, it's only good for fast damage, and it takes considerable effort to line up the enemies in such a way that you can effectively use it without taking an obscene amount of damage.

I hope that they at least lowered the PP cost of these, otherwise they are now more or less worthless.


And I pray to God that they didn't fucking nerf Buten Shuren-zan. If it got hit, then I'm seriously ditching my Wartecher, because there would be no point. Maybe I'll turn him into a Fortefighter, so he can actually do damage again.



In other news, I'm glad the synth glitch is being fixed, and I honestly couldn't care less about the clothing glitch. However, they need to hurry up and gib Braves Coat.

[DrewSeleski]

yeah renkai and dus both needed the nerf... but probably only for about half as much as it got.
About the ranger situation I don't know what got boosted, I think someone said shots and machineguns?? whatever going down the line of the things that were rebalnced ranger side, it seems like it's all the weapons I thought were shit. Shotguns, laser cannons and machineguns. I think it's good. Previously in my mind there was no reason to use these weapons. Crossbow and launcher were loads better than shotgun. Laser cannon.... well laser cannon was just a joke let's admit it. I hope they bounced it's SE up one level because that is really what it needs. Machineguns had thier use but if you were using them for the sake of doing damage you would soon run out. Not really sure whether they needed a boost or not though to be honest because I don't use one handed guns so I could be wrong.
I don't think rising crush needed nerfing. It was ridiculously low as far as damage goes. Not to say it wasn't a very good skill, it just was so dang hard to level it up with the low damage.

[Alisha]

i think many of you are missing the point. renkai and daggas were overpowered to the point that using anything else would be gimping yourself. renkai and dagas were like ryu.ken,and akuma and everything else was like Dan.

[Zorafim]

I am a heavy spear and twin dagger user, but I'm not too mad at this update. I will admit that Dus Daggas did too much damage as it was. Spear is the second most powerful weapon in terms of pure ATP, and you're adding the fact that you can attack 8 times with a nearly 2x modifier and the ability to stun on the last hit of the combo (knockback if it's the last hit). And as for Renkai, well, I thought it looked silly.

The newer two dagger and spear PAs are unharmed and Robado was even boosted by a small amount (good, because I was running out of PP much to fast when using it). These fulfill the same rolls as the first two in reverse, so I can do the same thing while having a much higher stun rate (the dagger PA stuns every two or three hits in its combo, while Robado stuns every hit in its combo. These are against weaker foes, though). They also look spiffier.

[omegapirate2k]

This is exactly what I was looking for, good reasons to use other PA's.

THANK YOU ST!!!!!

[Pure-chan]

T-T now my post about why posts were disappearing has disappeared??? H4><.



If anyone finds out about the changes to Axes and Twin Claws, I would be most appreciative.

[Nayte]

On 2007-01-18 14:56, Alisha wrote:
i think many of you are missing the point. renkai and daggas were overpowered to the point that using anything else would be gimping yourself.



*shrug* Ok, so how come i could outdamage others without having to use daggers or spears? Actually, ive never even used any kind of daggers on my fortefighter yet.

[DeadlyForce]

Do you think Axes will get an up or down? I hope they get a boost instead of what daggas got...Poor daggas..

[Neith]

Dus Daggas and Rising Crush eh?

Only the two PA's I use MOST. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif Ugh, not liking the sound of that.

The two bugs being fixed is annoying too.


Oh, and:

Reminds of that totally broken class from a certain other Sega Game... oh yes, RAMARLS from PSO.. Seriously, the last thing I want to see is Rangers trying to outdamage Hunters.

Whenever the US/EU server gets these changes, my Beast fF is gonna get hit badly- Rising Crush and Dus Daggas were my 2 main PA's, and they're both getting nerfed.

I swear to God, if Claw is nerfed by much, I'd be inclined to stop playing my Hunter anymore. Why did you have to hurt the Hunters so badly, and give Rangers damage buffs? Seriously, Burn/Infection do enough as it is, they didn't NEED a damage buff. So yeah, nerf Shousen Totsuzan-ga anymore, and I don't know if I could continue.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2007-01-18 17:53 ]</font>

[RuinedReBirth]

I don't mind a lot of these, but damn! Look at Daggers! That is going to *HURT* me!

[ShinMaruku]

Remeber enough of a stink and they might not hit the US with what Japan got.
They best not frig with the glitches though...
I'd hurt their perv market.

[Rashiid]

i like this...im sick of ppl using twin daggers 1st PA over and over and over killing everything in thier path....

doesnt even make the game fun

[Alisha]

i'm happy with the changes so far. as someone who is not a fan of spears or twin daggers i was concerned about being looked down on for not using them. i'm still curious what was changed about swords though. simply changing the max targets hittable by swords would be sufficient,previously i think double sabers could hit more. and wow for crea swords if you can actually find something with enough target points.

[Hildigam]

Well....

Twin Daggers are a little overused as it is, that much maybe not but hey, I hace a fortefighter and gunenr, and I like my gunner more. Theoretically you spam your bullets and they jsut don't level. I solely used dark bullets for three runs in GOF S and gained a wonderful lvl 8-9.... So uping some damage isn't that bad anywhere on a RA personally. I do love my Daggas on my Hu though, but it is to the point that you kinda of expect everyon to have it at 30 anyway. Kinda like twin guns and the freeze bullets...

[Seira7]

Visually, I love the design of spears and twin daggers. I have always gone spear in games on my chars, if I could, it reminds me of the valkyrie character in sd3. So basically, if you didnt like spears or daggers before, the nerf is REALLY KEWL ZOMG!! Whatever...
I came from PSO where we had hundreds of cool looking weapons to choose from, but I have learned to like PSU because of the PAs. We are stuck with blander looking weapon options and now, even less PA options? Meh x2.

[Pinecone]

poo on sega for screwing up dus daggas, poo!
but on a very slightly happy note gravity strike was only downed 5%, thats not so bad...right?

[Pentence]

Personaly this isnt so bad and if ANYONE didnt see some of these comeing you clearly have NO INTEREST in TRUE balance.It was only mentioned DOZENS of times in all types of posts that dus daggas and the dager PA were broken.This is exactly why i didnt touch twin dagers hardly at all i used twin sabers.Also ill admit some of these seem ovrboard but this also proves that NOTHING is writen in stone.So before you go off the hinge remember this isnt the final note.

On a more personal level i do belive that since dus robardo(sp) with its downed pp usage makes sense.This is kinda funny to caouse i was just thinking to myself that wow dus dagas is REALY up there n this new pa is well...crap but i lvled it anyway since it hit multy enemys.Now im glad i did as it it looks to becoem more usefull.Finaly as far as i can see this will only serve to do one thing,make people ACTUALY try new PAs n weps.No longer will people feel bad that they cant pull that ABSOLUTELY AMAZING dps that ONLY one weapon can.They will feel like THEY can actualy choose n not have ST say here this rules this sucks take your pick.

[Zato-2TWO]

THE INTERNET MAKES PEOPLE INTO DRAMA-LLAMAS.

Seriously, stop crying. Please. It's saddening. No more 'OH MY GOD, PSU IS BEING DESTROYED BY NERFS'. It's silly, immature, and makes you look really really stupid.

As far as I see the nerfs? They're necessary. Daggas and Renkai were broken beyond relief, and they didn't even fit the purpose of their weapon! Twin daggers are meant to be quick-striking DPS weapons that don't give the enemy a chance to recover, and what do people use them for? AOE PA spamming. Spears are the multi-hitting weapon for the non-Hunter, meant to strike multiple enemies at once and keep them at bay while dealing moderate damage to each. What do people use them for? Xuber Damage PA spamming.

So people, stop crying. Stop declaring the apocolypse. Even if it is as bad as you say, you will continue to play this game. And if you quit because of a fucking NERF that NEEDED to happen, then you have some serious issues to work out.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-01-18 21:53, Pentence wrote:
Personaly this isnt so bad and if ANYONE didnt see some of these comeing you clearly have NO INTEREST in TRUE balance.It was only mentioned DOZENS of times in all types of posts that dus daggas and the dager PA were broken.This is exactly why i didnt touch twin dagers hardly at all i used twin sabers.Also ill admit some of these seem ovrboard but this also proves that NOTHING is writen in stone.So before you go off the hinge remember this isnt the final note.

On a more personal level i do belive that since dus robardo(sp) with its downed pp usage makes sense.This is kinda funny to caouse i was just thinking to myself that wow dus dagas is REALY up there n this new pa is well...crap but i lvled it anyway since it hit multy enemys.Now im glad i did as it it looks to becoem more usefull.Finaly as far as i can see this will only serve to do one thing,make people ACTUALY try new PAs n weps.No longer will people feel bad that they cant pull that ABSOLUTELY AMAZING dps that ONLY one weapon can.They will feel like THEY can actualy choose n not have ST say here this rules this sucks take your pick.



Yeah except they nerfed the twin sabers PA which costs so much PP ppl already hardly use it, despite its incredible capacity as support.

They didn't nerf it much, but jesus, if anything this thing deserved a boost. Reduce its PA cost. I LOVE people who use this PA.

[Turambar]

I'm just wondering to what degree people are angry because they truely believe these PAs did not need a nerf, and to what degree because you like those PAs.

[Lyrise]

I use Rising Crush, but 18PP is a lot to spend? There are tons more PAs that cost more, and do less. Even Assault Crush costs 20. It had to be taken down a bit too. 195% at max is a bit over the top, and VERY broken. If 18 PP is really considered a lot, then I suggest you start investing in a skillsave unit.

The fact that it was only taken down to 180% means it didn't get hit as hard as Dus Duggas did. I'm still using it right now, and I don't really feel a thing, just used a better pair of sabers to make up for the minor loss.

[Jarek]

Add another unsatisfied beast wartecher to the list. Tech damage is already laughable, and now my strike PAs will do less. These cuts may not add up to much overall, but it's still annoying. What to do, what to do..
Been meaning to get dus rabado started, guess the sooner the better.

[SolomonGrundy]

I'm a Fortefighter beast, who is ok with the three biggest nerfs posted so far (dus duggas, rising crush, and Renkaibuyouzan)

Despite he fact that this hurts WTs, the dagger PA was way over powered, there was no need to use a sword, really. As a fF, you hit hard enough to stun-lock baddies with 3 hit spin, and the damage is amazing.

Same too with Dus Duggas - hits 5 times in RAPID succesion. I leveled my Fist PAs out of love, but on the power scale, spears were where it is AT.

What I will add though, is that instead of BIG changes to those three PAs, they should have made smaller adjustments, and upped the damage of other PAs. It accomplishes the same thing, without leaving players feeling "nerfed"


They did the right thing with machine guns, which were useless. All other ranger weapons should have been left alone. Especially shotguns. In anything, they should have nerfed crossbow ATP. Rangers SEs end up dealing the most damage anway.

Finally, they should have nerfed a few techs. Shimarisu is right, certain force spells are a shu-win/lock. And forces were supposed to play more of a support role in PSU. Does not seem that way anymore.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-01-19 00:15 ]</font>

[imfanboy]

Wow, that's the first time that RAmarls have ever been called broken in my presence - usually, people were wondering why I bothered playing the Ranger class with the lowest ATP.

But honestly, I saw this coming. *shrug*

And the one thing all the "Drama-llamas" are forgetting is that a nerf can be counteracted by a buff later on - particularly if enough of the people who were whining say, "yeah, it needed a nerf, but not so much..."

I recall Dawn of War when the Orks were so overpowered at one point that EVERYTHING got nerfed - then, no one played orks, and it took some convincing to get the balancers to actually buff them back up slowly. I think the process is still ongoing, but I'm not sure.

It's a matter of achieving BALANCE, and it's a journey, not a one-stop shop.

[imfanboy]

Oh, and it isn't Dambarta that's unbalanced - it's the Newman TP plus the Fortetecher multiplier that turns Dambarta into the worldslayer that it is. Has nothing to do with the actual tech multiplier, which is relatively low (what, 130 at level 30?) or the cost of it (empties out rods faster than you can say "Wow that looks cold!")

So, unless they nerf Newman TP (which doesn't seem likely) Dambarta isn't going to change.

[Gazette]

The only thing that grinds me a bit is that Renkai dropped to laughable levels for WT's.
Assuming the 27% drop is there from the start, it drops to 128% when maxed at 20.

That's 8% lower than a current level 1 Renkai.
(Hell.. capped at 30 it'll only be 2% higher than a current level 1 Renkai)

Still, considering we still have the Ulti. PA to look forward to, I'm not worried...
SINCE IT'S JUST AS BROKEN!

10 hits at 170% at level 30
Or 6 hits at 160% at level 20

Sounds good to me.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gazette on 2007-01-19 01:05 ]</font>

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2007-01-19 00:46, imfanboy wrote:
Oh, and it isn't Dambarta that's unbalanced - it's the Newman TP plus the Fortetecher multiplier that turns Dambarta into the worldslayer that it is. Has nothing to do with the actual tech multiplier, which is relatively low (what, 130 at level 30?) or the cost of it (empties out rods faster than you can say "Wow that looks cold!")

So, unless they nerf Newman TP (which doesn't seem likely) Dambarta isn't going to change.



TP is the only shit us newman have going for us, and there is no benefit and no reward from being other classes. Because of that, I don't see our TP being overpowered.

[VanHalen]

On 2007-01-19 01:09, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2007-01-19 00:46, imfanboy wrote:
Oh, and it isn't Dambarta that's unbalanced - it's the Newman TP plus the Fortetecher multiplier that turns Dambarta into the worldslayer that it is. Has nothing to do with the actual tech multiplier, which is relatively low (what, 130 at level 30?) or the cost of it (empties out rods faster than you can say "Wow that looks cold!")

So, unless they nerf Newman TP (which doesn't seem likely) Dambarta isn't going to change.



TP is the only shit us newman have going for us, and there is no benefit and no reward from being other classes. Because of that, I don't see our TP being overpowered.



hey we can hit the hell out of things with guns and swords(not saying it would hurt alot but we sure as heck will hit it)

[Gazette]

^ And on that note

Usual 1 on 1 fight with my Wartecher:

Me: Hey you mob, yeah you! Bet you can't hit me!

*block*block*block*block*

Mob: Hey you, Newman, yeah you! Bet you can't kill me!

100 100 100 100 100 100 120 (OMG CRIT!)

Vil de Bear: Hey guyz what's going on in here?

*Zangrif Lariat Spin*

Me: Uh oh

*block*block*hit* *Gains more frequent flyer miles*



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gazette on 2007-01-19 01:24 ]</font>

[VanHalen]

^ very true our frequent flyer miles save us from death and then we can get back up and kick its ass.

Man i cant wait til i become fortefighter with my newman just 3 more job lvls.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2007-01-19 01:52 ]</font>

[Sexy_Raine]

My mysterious 4th slot, is(you guess it) another newman. Still in development, this 4th slot was to beGT, but to make it interesting, it will be GT/FG/FT, shifting between the 3 every once a day, being far more than just a normal hybrid.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2007-01-19 02:00 ]</font>

[Lastat27]

Anyone basing there character around a single weapon (Spear / Twin Daggers) did so because these two PA's were overpowered. You had to have seen this coming.

Also, I don't see any reason why people are complaining about this minor boost to Rangers. Sega targeted our three worst weapons (personally speaking) and gave them a slight damage boost.

-Laser Cannons are totally blown away by Rifle's faster shot rate, less PP cost, lvl 4 SE's, and equal damage. This mediocre gun doesn't deal status effects and has the same ATP as a Rifle. It needed a small % increase to be useful on a macro pallette.

-Machineguns and Shotguns getting a 10-15% boost is equivilent to 5-10 extra damage a bullet. It isn't even noticable. These two guns only hit for 10-30 damage on armored mobs and 100-150 on unarmored.

Anyone using a Shotgun or Machinegun doing this kind of damage in Bruce's would most likely be shunned by the party and possibly booted for lack of damage and then quickly replaced. Probably even after this update as well.

[imfanboy]

Are you high, Lastat? Or have you never been in a group with someone that uses a shotgun?

Shotguns do 100 damage a BULLET. That adds up to 500 damage a blast.

With my Newman FEMALE Guntecher (arguably the lowest ATP of any race/class combo capable of using shotguns, aside from PTs).

Without buffs or debuffs.

And not using an opposed elemental bullet.

With all of those, I'm looking at an EASY 700-900 points of damage with a single barrage a lot faster than a fortefighter could pump it out.

Half that for an armored mob. Still pretty decent. And when I solo Onmagoug A my ice shotgun carves through Tengoughs quicker than it takes to throw up Maya's home cooking.

Man, I'd want to see what a beast fortegunner could do with 'em - bet it'd be NASTY.


But yeah, they buffed up our (snicker, snort) weakest guns... and unfortunately gave one big nerf to the Wartecher.


Thankfully, they seem to be holding off on the nerfs for the US servers as of yet; probably want to see how it works out on the JP servers before subjecting us to it. Thank God the Japanese are there to take the hit first.

[Hotobu]

I just don't understand the short-sighted shotgun love around here. Sure they LOOK like they do alot of damage, but take the painfully low rate of fire, and combine it with the fact that you have to be in kissing range to do that kind of damage and they aren't any better for a single enemy than a rifle or dual handguns. With a shotgun you're either going to take alot of hits or constantly have to reposition yourself whereas with any other gun you can simply fire away unhindered due to being able to keep your distance.

If you're going to play like that, all things considered Crossbows are far superior.

Also [infamoboy] on the note of laser cannons I'd venture to say you aren't using them right. If you run around with nothing but an LC looking to shoot everything in sight then your arguement holds. If, however, you pull it out when the mob is properly grouped up you can easily get 3 - 5 hits. Furthermore it's rate of fire isn't all that bad, and it's damage is more than a rifle. I have to believe that you're not comparing the ATP of them on fair grounds as you may be comparing a leveled Rifle bullet to an unleveled LC one.

[panzer_unit]

Checking the JP wiki:
Anga Durega got damage and accuracy buffs. Nothing listed for Redda yet.
Didn't see anything for Knuckle or Sword arts.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2007-01-18 17:19, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Dus Daggas and Rising Crush eh?

Only the two PA's I use MOST. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif Ugh, not liking the sound of that.

The two bugs being fixed is annoying too.


Oh, and:

Reminds of that totally broken class from a certain other Sega Game... oh yes, RAMARLS from PSO.. Seriously, the last thing I want to see is Rangers trying to outdamage Hunters.

Whenever the US/EU server gets these changes, my Beast fF is gonna get hit badly- Rising Crush and Dus Daggas were my 2 main PA's, and they're both getting nerfed.

I swear to God, if Claw is nerfed by much, I'd be inclined to stop playing my Hunter anymore. Why did you have to hurt the Hunters so badly, and give Rangers damage buffs? Seriously, Burn/Infection do enough as it is, they didn't NEED a damage buff. So yeah, nerf Shousen Totsuzan-ga anymore, and I don't know if I could continue.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2007-01-18 17:53 ]</font>


I would have to agree with this, although I wouldn't quit any of my Hunters. If my Newman Wartecher is badly hurt melee wise, then I'm switching him to a Fortefighter, but I'll have to see for myself if its really so bad, if it isn't, then he'll stay. I also agree about Rangers being broken in PSO and I still think that they should NOT try to outdamage Hunters with their bullets.

[Weakness]

On 2007-01-19 08:11, Shiroryuu wrote:


I would have to agree with this, although I wouldn't quit any of my Hunters. If my Newman Wartecher is badly hurt melee wise, then I'm switching him to a Fortefighter, but I'll have to see for myself if its really so bad, if it isn't, then he'll stay. I also agree about Rangers being broken in PSO and I still think that they should NOT try to outdamage Hunters with their bullets.



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif We don't have to try, with level 4 SE's we can kill a Teng in a quarter of the time it takes you. Our damage per shot is respectable for our rate of fire (speaking in terms of rifles), and we can inflict the most damaging status effects out there without breaking a sweat. In my opinion, a ForteGunner with a Rifle, and properly leveled bullets, is already on the verge of being broken.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif Toss in a Phantom/Phantomline combo and we are just plain sexy.

[Akaimizu]

One of the reasons I still love the Twin Gunnies, and not simply because it's "in-character" to do so. So far, they still are attempting to do the support role my class is designed for. Never really the damage setter, but great for Status Effects on the "general" populace of monsters.

Though I have to admit, I do find myself having to go to the weapons of Status Effect 4(max) when dealing with the big guys. That's mainly because the Twin Guns really lose SE penetration beyond *leader* types.

[Rizen]

*still waiting for trap info*

[Zato-2TWO]

This thread gave me some insight into the future.

Because when they nerf rifles, all the Rangers will /wrist.

[Akaimizu]

Who knows. The main only thing rifles have, really, is the fact that they are one of the weapons that can attain Status Effect level 4. Damage-wise, they often get outdamaged by a lot of things. They've never collectively done better than twin guns, on me; and unless I'm really too worried about getting within twin gun range, on a boss, I tend to still favor them for overall better damage.

However, with good SE, on those large enemies that aren't the boss, rifles/bows can reign. Unless there's a secret I don't know about, I don't know if rifles really have an overall utilitarian advantage. Just a few specific useful situations to use them.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-01-19 09:18 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Hey, I found out something neat while looking for changes on the melee weapons I actually use... the new Twin Dagger and Twin Saber PA's max their damage at level 20 instead of level 30, and only climb on ATA after that. Their damage at lv20 is right on par with the higher-rated attacks, even before they get nerfed.

Very WarTecher-friendly.

Too bad all of the guys affected were too busy /emo and /wrist to do any research on their own fucking skills. Honestly, how much hand-holding do people need?

Zato: I wouldn't worry about losing rangers over a rifle nerf. If they're not pulling shotguns / laser cannons / grenades for DPS I don't know how much good they're doing anyway. Damage multipliers for the win.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-19 09:29 ]</font>

[Zato-2TWO]

Well, my fear is that once more Phantom sets go into circulation, anyone who can pick up a rifle will just get themselves a set and start popping 400's off of everything at rifle speed.

Currently there are no other sets that do this for weapons, so eventually we're going to see that the Phantom set will be 'standard issue' for rangers. If that happens, we're either going to see a Rifle nerf, or a Phantom-boost nerf (the latter being the more likely of the two should the situation arise).

[Pure-chan]

On 2007-01-19 08:48, Weakness wrote:

On 2007-01-19 08:11, Shiroryuu wrote:


I would have to agree with this, although I wouldn't quit any of my Hunters. If my Newman Wartecher is badly hurt melee wise, then I'm switching him to a Fortefighter, but I'll have to see for myself if its really so bad, if it isn't, then he'll stay. I also agree about Rangers being broken in PSO and I still think that they should NOT try to outdamage Hunters with their bullets.



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif We don't have to try, with level 4 SE's we can kill a Teng in a quarter of the time it takes you. Our damage per shot is respectable for our rate of fire (speaking in terms of rifles), and we can inflict the most damaging status effects out there without breaking a sweat. In my opinion, a ForteGunner with a Rifle, and properly leveled bullets, is already on the verge of being broken.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif Toss in a Phantom/Phantomline combo and we are just plain sexy.



@Weakness:

Teng are melee resistant, right?

Saying that you can kill teng in 1/4 the time (with SE's) as a HU (doing half damage) is a pretty imbalanced example in favor of RA. Additionally, even with my SE4 bullets, I'd still opt for traps over rifles for inflicting SE on Teng.

If in your opinion, a ForteGunner with a Rifle and properly leveled bullets is already on the verge of being broken, you may want to dial it down a notch and hope you don't get slapped by the next "rebalancing."

Toss in Phantom/Phantomline combo and you'll be just plain identical to every fortegunner on psu who meets the defensive requirement. (not unlike hunters with spears/twin daggers pre-nerf) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

@Panzer:

Thanks for the update. I'm happy to hear that anga durega got an ata/atp bonus. Considering how much work it is to level in relation to the new axe PA, it needed it badly. Any word on claws/twin claws?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2007-01-19 09:51 ]</font>

[Weakness]

On 2007-01-19 09:44, Zato-2TWO wrote:
Well, my fear is that once more Phantom sets go into circulation, anyone who can pick up a rifle will just get themselves a set and start popping 400's off of everything at rifle speed.

Currently there are no other sets that do this for weapons, so eventually we're going to see that the Phantom set will be 'standard issue' for rangers. If that happens, we're either going to see a Rifle nerf, or a Phantom-boost nerf (the latter being the more likely of the two should the situation arise).



Actually there are several other combos. One with a Card and some lower level armor, the Gigush and Gigushline, and a few more I can't remember. Not like Rangers are special.

Also note, with level 30 bullets that is already a 155% modifier. We don't need a Phantom/Phantomline combo to pull out 400+ numbers.

Granted Rangers will never come close to what a ForteFighter can do with an Axe firing off PA's, or what a ForteTecher can do. We hold our own, decent damage, level 4 SE's, and a quick firing rate don't make us anything godly... but it does make us pretty damned strong, and you know you all love level 4 freeze/infection.

Edit for add:


On 2007-01-19 09:48, Pure-chan wrote:


@Weakness:

Teng are melee resistant, right?

Saying that you can kill teng in 1/4 the time (with SE's) as a HU (doing half damage) is a pretty imbalanced example in favor of RA. Additionally, even with my SE4 bullets, I'd still opt for traps over rifles for inflicting SE on Teng.

If in your opinion, a ForteGunner with a Rifle and properly leveled bullets is already on the verge of being broken, you may want to dial it down a notch and hope you don't get slapped by the next "rebalancing."

Toss in Phantom/Phantomline combo and you'll be just plain identical to every fortegunner on psu who meets the defensive requirement. (not unlike hunters with spears/twin daggers pre-nerf) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

@Panzer:

Thanks for the update. I'm happy to hear that anga durega got an ata/atp bonus. Considering how much work it is to level in relation to the new axe PA, it needed it badly. Any word on claws/twin claws?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2007-01-19 09:51 ]</font>


http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Well melee fighters don't have to use melee weaponry. FighGunners can slap on twin handguns, and a FortFighter can use handguns. It isn't just Teng, but just big monsters in general that Rangers seem to dominate.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif Also note that there are few enough ForteGunners as is, I doubt the would swing the nerf bat at us. Now that the effects of the Phantom combo has been seen, the prices for Phantomlines has gone crazy. Not every ForteGunner (only job really able to make good use of this, even if GunTecher can use Rifles) has the ability to obtain a 9* gun and 7* armor at the highly inflated prices.

The only true thing that Fortegunners have going for them is level 4 SE's and their ability to stick them on a fairly consistent basis.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif Besides, when S rank rifles come out I am dropping the combo so I can use a Blackbull. That thing is just made of awesome and win.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Weakness on 2007-01-19 09:59 ]</font>

[Dymalos]

On 2007-01-19 09:09, Zato-2TWO wrote:
This thread gave me some insight into the future.

Because when they nerf rifles, all the Rangers will /wrist.



I won't care at all. I will continue to use my Ulteri which does a consistent 520 damage across all levels of difficulty.

[panzer_unit]

I'm thinking ForteGunner with the Gur Neda / Rabol Neda set would be the thing to run around with if you want to be like OMG DPS RANGAR BROKEN LOLOLLOLOLOLOL.

All large-size mobs = on the floor getting owned at an insane rate.

[majan]

well,of course it kind of pisses everybody off,but the only one I see worth nerfing were the twin daggers.I use twin daggers,and those things are rather overpowered.with 2 star daggers I can blow...and I mean BLOW through the dragon on C rank all by myself with my beast.furthermore,the speed at which that photon art levels up(9 hits total, first combo hitting 2 targets,2nd and 3rd combo hitting 3 targets = WTF amount of hits) doesnt necessarily keep up with the power increase.

dont get me wrong,Im not in favor of it whatsoever,but you kind of have to look at it frmo a reasonable perspective.
wartechers,I feel for ya and Im sorry your stuff got nerfed to crap.nothin a weapon upgrade cant fix.

besides,with shifta nowadays,we get a fairly good boost anyway.keep that in mind,wartechers.

[Thrash777]

WTF!? They nerf the hunters and buff the rangers!? It's always been like this. Non-hunters always complain about how much damage they do, when it's everyone favours anyway! They're the ones who are up front taking the damage!

Dus Daggas and Renkai Bouyou have just been ruined... they were my two favourites along with Buten Shouren... this sucks! >_<

[panzer_unit]

Spears: Dus Robando is probably worth keeping your spears for... 5 hits AOE / combo instead of 3 from Tornado Break is pretty good. You've got an axe and Anga Redda right? Tell me that didn't already put Dus Daggas out of a job.

Twin Daggers: come on the PA's cost next to nothing and the basic combo is 7 hits. Great weapon when you're just living off of PP refresh. They didn't need superpowered PA's to go with it. All you'll ever need is the first attack on the new PA anyway, just do that over and over again.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-01-19 11:28 ]</font>

[Seira7]

Well, fortunately I never leveled the twin dagger PA.
I just like the way twin daggers look, and feel all PAs should be useful, maybe nerf the overpowered PAs a bit but do not gimp them. Perhaps I havent read the thread thouroughly enough to find out, but was the single dagger PA or the second twin claw PA nerfed?
Very curious on that. And I guess I will start leveling the 2nd spear PA now...
If I can keep my single dagger and twin claws, I can live without Dus Duggas.

[TDCchaos]

what were the changes to sword?

[panzer_unit]

I've checked the japanese PSU-Wiki a bunch of times. No changes listed yet.

Knuckles, no changes listed yet.

Axe, only change listed is Anga Duraga: +10% ATP, +25% ATA.

[Pure-chan]

On 2007-01-19 13:37, panzer_unit wrote:
Axe, only change listed is Anga Duraga: +10% ATP, +25% ATA.



<3

[Jife_Jifremok]

Am I the only ranger who doesn't care so much about status effects? I'd rather have fun going point-blank with a shotgun, combining something with a saber (goes with my playstyle of mixing ranged with melee), knocking stuff down with grenade launchers (explosions are a nice bonus) or simply looking cool with the laser cannon. (Too bad lasers aren't THAT useful..like, why the hell can't they multi-hit enemies with multiple hit zones?)

Rifles bore me, just standing there going pluck pluck pluck. I have little choice but to use them on a boss though since they do even more damage than a grenade (except on the dragon, big fucking whoop) and the handgun's mobility advantage is made useless by the need to stop to aim to do any decent damage (except on the dragon, big fucking whoop). At least with a normal large enemy I can just rifle-infect it and then use what I want. And with groups of smaller things I can simply status them with my shotgun and enjoy it (or the status may not work much and I simply enjoy killing the shit outta them anyway). Maybe rifles need a nerf...or better yet, other guns need more power to them, especially lasers.

[Sexy_Raine]

The rifles damage isn't overpowered, but the SE lv4 + speed is very abusable. I can sometimes get up to 5 enemies for burn before the first one's status wears off, and I could constantly rotate inflicting burn status between all enemies. And that can total a lot of damage on S missions.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2007-01-19 17:54 ]</font>

[Retehi]

On 2007-01-19 15:39, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
Am I the only ranger who doesn't care so much about status effects?


Yeah. You're just gimping yourself not using SE4 virus/burn/ice from a rifle. Also your team would benefit from those.

In before "it's mai style!!111".

[Ubersoldat]

As a fortefighter that uses spears 90% of the time, I think these changes are great. I think Dus Daggas will still remain one of the stronger PA's, but it no longer is going to OMGWTF out damage everything else in my arsenel. More variety and balance is always a good thing.

@ Shim - Please see a shrink about your Fortetecher complex. Thanks.

[zanotam]

guys there ARE other combo's besides phantom rifle and phantom lines. noobs sheesh!

[Vaxillus]

Sounds like lots of the whiners have stopped by now, but let's analyze Renkai for the hell of it.

1st combo = 3 hits x 2 targets (thought this was 3 but someone said it wasn't) = 6 potential hits
2nd combo = 2 hits x 3 targets = 6 potential hits
3rd combo = 4 hits x 3 targets = 12 potential hits

total potential hits = 24
assuming ~ 200 damage per hits (doable with a good elemental % at lvl 60 and easy once A grinders come out, even with the PA toned down)
24 x 200 = 4,800 potential damage for not very many PP. O_O
The fact that the PA even does damage with all those hits is a sin before god, and it's not exactly hard to get enemies around you when fighting standard mobs of Vandas and whatnot, and lets not forget the last hit causes knockback, leaving you safe and sound with nothing to counter attack.

As for rising crush, the result is like a missile landed in the middle of a mob: nothing is standing. It's increadibly useful for unclumping enemies, in fact the best currently out there.

Both these PAs were the first to reach 21 for my fF, even though I did my best to level things equally. Toning down the three most powerful techniques and boosting many of the others won't break hunters. I can't see a few relatively small boosts for rangers doing much damage either. Many of the complaints seem to be that supposedly common ground wasn't being found between the overpowered skills and the weaker ones, even though the list contains a significant number of skills that will likely recieve buffs. Anga Durega getting a 25% accuracy boost is nothing minor, and I'm sure we'll see more where that came from.

[Miyoko]

On 2007-01-19 15:39, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
Too bad lasers aren't THAT useful..like, why the hell can't they multi-hit enemies with multiple hit zones?


I dunno, I found my laser to be pretty useful when I was hitting 6 bel pannons in one shot for 165 damage earlier today... Maybe it's just me, but doing 990 damage for 18pp seems pretty cool. Even moreso when half the enemies were frozen ;p

Grenade launchers and Lasers are both very useful... However, they're both very situational, and require some careful thinking and skill on your part to best utilize them.

No weapon is useless. Try things out for a while, use them in different situations.

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-01-19 18:15, Retehi wrote:

On 2007-01-19 15:39, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
Am I the only ranger who doesn't care so much about status effects?

Yeah. You're just gimping yourself not using SE4 virus/burn/ice from a rifle. Also your team would benefit from those.

In before "it's mai style!!111".


Maybe I said it wrong. I do care abut status effects, but I don't care about them so much that I spam rifles just for the SE4 or would rush to level up my Dark Shot (though I would like to have it). When I level my bullets, I do like to spread the statuses around on the little guys. But status effects, especially the non-damage ones, are just not my first priority. And unless something is particularly tough, I am not going to slow down leveling my bullets of choice just to set something large on fire. (Usually I'm in a party that has SE4 burn anyway!) Maybe I'm gimping myself, but it's by hardly any significant degree.


On 2007-01-20 08:38, Miyoko wrote:

On 2007-01-19 15:39, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
Too bad lasers aren't THAT useful..like, why the hell can't they multi-hit enemies with multiple hit zones?

I dunno, I found my laser to be pretty useful when I was hitting 6 bel pannons in one shot for 165 damage earlier today... Maybe it's just me, but doing 990 damage for 18pp seems pretty cool. Even moreso when half the enemies were frozen ;p

Grenade launchers and Lasers are both very useful... However, they're both very situational, and require some careful thinking and skill on your part to best utilize them.

No weapon is useless. Try things out for a while, use them in different situations.

That's exactly my problem with lasers. They're only really useful on large groups. It makes no sense at all why a weapon so big and slow would only be useful on small enemies that could outmaneuver its shots if they had good enough AI to do so. It also makes no sense why I would do more damage plucking away at a Dimmagolus or Onmagoug wing with a rifle than a big cannon that *SHOULD* have been able to hit both wings and its head at once, depending on position.

[zanotam]

Alright, we know all about the PA adjustments but what about the trap adjustments they said they were going to do in JP PS2/PC

[EC_Subbie]

Wow, Shotgun boost = awesome. I was already doing 1100 a shot using my 9* Shotty with buffs/before boost... but at a slow fire rate, and it's a high risk weapon. The nerf to the other abilities though just means missions will be slower overall...

[Almalexia]

If single dagger PA's get nerfed and it appears to be comfirmed that it isn't, I'd be royally upset. I'm all for rangers getting stronger, I think they need it. Most of the time I'm the only fighter in a group and things are rather slow with 4+ rangers.

[Rashiid]

(pleaz dont touch techs!) /ends.wish.rant

[SirDeimos]

Does anyone else feel like they KEEP nerfing the hunters around here? When I first started Psu I loved my hunter now it seems like the higher level people get the more we get nerfed. Seems to me like the fortefighters/hunters keep getting schmoozed and the fighgunners get more each update, anyone else feel that way?

[Gryffin]

Nerfing no bueno para mi salud.

[Wheatpenny]

I have to say at first when I read this I was one of the first people to cry NERF and go have a funeral for all my 9* spears. And actualy I have been thinking lately and have changed my view. Deus Daggas got dropped from 190% to 160% I noticed my Axe PA cap out at like 160% and 150% respectively..Axe is supposed to be the most "powerfull" melee weapon in the game so looking back it realy doesen't make a hell of a lot of sense for spear to be out damaging axe so much. So yeah it realy isn't a nerf it is balancing.

As far as dual daggers I don't use them any but it seems to me that the lowering of their attack power may have been a little bit overboard when Sega jumped on the whole balancing bandwagon.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

[Nayte]

When/If Sega start messing around with race and class stats, then you should be worried.
This 'major' PA nerf isnt much.

[Keiya]

I'm just glad they finally nerfed the Noob cannons that are Daggas and RBZ.

That's ALL I used to see on people's equipment.
Spearspearspearspeardaggersdaggersdaggersdaggersda ggers.

I was getting pretty pissed that Daggas outdamaged my axe by a great deal, hell even Redda. I welcome these nerfs when it comes to Fortefighters....
And maybe now Wartechers will have to *painstakingly* level another PA to 20 >.>

[Pentence]

On 2007-01-18 23:18, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2007-01-18 21:53, Pentence wrote:
Personaly this isnt so bad and if ANYONE didnt see some of these comeing you clearly have NO INTEREST in TRUE balance.It was only mentioned DOZENS of times in all types of posts that dus daggas and the dager PA were broken.This is exactly why i didnt touch twin dagers hardly at all i used twin sabers.Also ill admit some of these seem ovrboard but this also proves that NOTHING is writen in stone.So before you go off the hinge remember this isnt the final note.

On a more personal level i do belive that since dus robardo(sp) with its downed pp usage makes sense.This is kinda funny to caouse i was just thinking to myself that wow dus dagas is REALY up there n this new pa is well...crap but i lvled it anyway since it hit multy enemys.Now im glad i did as it it looks to becoem more usefull.Finaly as far as i can see this will only serve to do one thing,make people ACTUALY try new PAs n weps.No longer will people feel bad that they cant pull that ABSOLUTELY AMAZING dps that ONLY one weapon can.They will feel like THEY can actualy choose n not have ST say here this rules this sucks take your pick.



Yeah except they nerfed the twin sabers PA which costs so much PP ppl already hardly use it, despite its incredible capacity as support.

They didn't nerf it much, but jesus, if anything this thing deserved a boost. Reduce its PA cost. I LOVE people who use this PA.


Agreed on this one but thats why i use the Yohmei twins.

[Lyrise]

I feel like an idiot for not noticing this sooner. Both sword SAs did get boosted statwise. Spinning Break and Tornado Break had their hit modifiers boosted, WAY up, from 60(65%?) all the way to 80%.

[Ghen]

On 2007-01-18 14:56, Alisha wrote:
i think many of you are missing the point. renkai and daggas were overpowered to the point that using anything else would be gimping yourself. renkai and dagas were like ryu.ken,and akuma and everything else was like Dan.



I think that is over exaggerating a little. Besides, I am a Saikyo master, bring on your Shoto-clones!

[Merumeru]

On 2007-01-18 09:06, panzer_unit wrote:
No info on Axes or Knuckles

XD i guess that may be a good sign, a sigh of relief for my 2 favorite weapons in the game; maybe this update will make them more popular if they arent hit in the crotch so hard X3