Question about game timeline... and an opinion.

[OnnaWren]

Does PSU still use the old AUW calendar? Or is any date mentioned at all in the game? I haven't found anything pertinent offline, so I'm hoping that an online player might enlighten me.

Also, on an unrelated note, why, oh why did Sega have to turn my favorite race into an elitist clique of utter CAST-holes? Whyyyyyyy...? *sob* (I liked their underdog status in PSO so much better.)

[OdinTyler]

Been wondering about the year myself. Long ago, I figured out PSO was AW3084. I mean cmon...Crossing 3084...HELLO? But you gotta wonder about PSU. Generally its been 800-1000 years between games. Maybe if there were a sound test, we'd know. Id like to see other people's ideas on this.

As for Casts, you gotta realize that human arrogance breeds android arrogance. Its been done many times over in sci-fi. Creations are known to emulate the best & worst of their creators. Mirrors, really. Besides, it made for a good storyline to prove that non-mechanical beings were just as worth of respect as any other race.

[Simmerl]

Personally, I think the Casts in PSU look boring.
Just odd-coloured humans wearing metal boxes instead of pants.

It's much closer to Wren and the like, but I still miss the PSO android design.

[Genji]

According to the Japanese timeline, I think PSU (story mode) takes place roughly around AC0100.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-01-20 12:43, Genji wrote:
According to the Japanese timeline, I think PSU (story mode) takes place roughly around AC0100.



Correct. PSU does not follow the AUW timeline.

[Genji]

And since I'm sure people will ask for a source:

Source Thread (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=131881&forum=20)

Direct link to scans
Page 1 (http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7609/psupg1rh6.jpg)
Page 2 (http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/386/psupg2pe3.jpg)

As for a translation, I believe EspioKaos (http://EspioKaos.com) is working on it.

[OnnaWren]

Hmm, either a Palman deviance or parallel planetary development? Interesting. It's not Algo, but it's not Earth, either. I wonder why they ditched the calendar? It causes confusion for old hats like myself... x_x

Nevermind. I ramble. Better to be silent than to have the smackdown placed on me... again.

[Laranas]

On 2007-01-20 12:44, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-01-20 12:43, Genji wrote:
According to the Japanese timeline, I think PSU (story mode) takes place roughly around AC0100.



Correct. PSU does not follow the AUW timeline.

And if the two worlds were linked, the AUW timeline would've died with that "ancient civilization" anyway.

[natewifi]

what does AUW stand for?

[Reginaldo]

I have a confession..

I've never played any Phantasy Star game...only psu and pso http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[Genji]

On 2007-01-20 15:48, natewifi wrote:
what does AUW stand for?



After Unification War

[Laranas]

On 2007-01-20 16:25, Reginaldo wrote:
I have a confession..

I've never played any Phantasy Star game...only psu and pso http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

Considering the ending to PSIV, there really shouldn't be a PSO or PSU... that considered, you don't have to worry about important facts you may be missing, the series ended a long time ago.

But it's a great series that you should play.

[Simmerl]

On 2007-01-20 16:34, Genji wrote:
After Unification War



Oh? I thought it was "After United by Waizz" or however you wish to romanize that king's name.

[Sinue_v2]

I wonder why they ditched the calendar?

Simply, because the series are not connected.


And if the two worlds were linked, the AUW timeline would've died with that "ancient civilization" anyway.

Not necessarily, as if the two series were connected - PSU could easily be a prequal to PS. There's several millions of years of history between the time when the Profound Darkness (or the race which spawned it) was sealed away - and the start of Phantasy Star I. That's a lot of time for multiple civilisations to rise and fall away.

PSU couldn't take place after PS anyhow - at least, not in Algol, simply because of the fact that there is no more Palma/Parum as of Phantasy Star II.


Considering the ending to PSIV, there really shouldn't be a PSO or PSU... that considered, you don't have to worry about important facts you may be missing, the series ended a long time ago.

True, and while the series are "offically" unconnected - putting the pieces together into a solid storyline and connecting the series is quite feasable. Expecially when you consider that (at least in the Japanese version) the Profound Darkness wasn't a singular being so much as a conglomeration of many, many spirital beings. Defeating the Profound Darkness wouldn't necessarily destory the conciousness, but would destory it's primary focus of power - and a lesser being (such as Dark Falz) would simply attempt to become the new power focus. This explains nicely the fact that Dark Falz is desperately trying to "Evolve", and why he takes Rico as a host so that he can have a coporeal anchor in which to focus his energy. Perhaps the Profound Darkness itself had a human host at it's core - it's final form was definitively female.

The original series itself proves that Dark Force/Falz can survive without the Profound Darkness around - since Phantasy Star III takes place well -after- Phantasy Star IV.

So yeah... while it's not offical, it certainly is possible, and perhaps even probable depending on how you look at it.


I thought it was "After United by Waizz" or however you wish to romanize that king's name

Offically, it is "After Unificiation War". Though the "Unification War" is never clearly detailed in history to the best of my knowladge. If you want to connect the series together, the timelines fit well enough that you could consider the unification war to be the same campaign Waizz Landale led to unify all of Palma. However it's offically refering to some war on Coral which unified the 10 major nations of that planet. (Which is silly, IMO, since they continued to war as seperate nations well after the supposed "unification" occured.

[OdinTyler]

Originally it was AW (After Waizz) named after Waizz Landale (yes, ancestor of Alis). He pretty much 'set up shop' in Algol at this timeframe. At some point it became AUW, which yes, stands for After Unification War (which is oddly strange because after the war in Gurhal, the races became 'somewhat' united too).

Now why would you get rid of the calendar that worked for both Algol AND Ragol? Makes no damn sense to me. I CAN understand where the new unit comes from. Its 100 years after the great war in Gurhal. But what does the unit stand for?

Missing AW...

[A2K]

On 2007-01-23 08:29, OdinTyler wrote:
Now why would you get rid of the calendar that worked for both Algol AND Ragol? Makes no damn sense to me. I CAN understand where the new unit comes from. Its 100 years after the great war in Gurhal. But what does the unit stand for?


According to the bottom right corner of the second image, AC stands for "Allied Century", while BA stands for "Before Alliance" (well, "Ally", but... eh, you know).

I wonder what their previous calendar was like? Surely they had one preceding the Tripartite Treaty...

[Akaimizu]

The only thing that makes it tough to really connect everything together, is the whole development of stuff. PSU has the most technologically advanced casts I've ever seen. And then there's the magic thing.

Phantasy Star I had magic, in the old times, however, after that, magics were lost. Technics kind of replaced magic but not fully. Gone is the ability to resurrect. You died, you died completely. Not sure if IV changed this all around, since that's the only one I haven't jumped into, yet.

[Sinue_v2]

PSU has the most technologically advanced casts I've ever seen.

Just because something is more advanced, doesn't mean it couldn't have come before events we're presented with. In fact, that point is actually accentuated in PSU's dialouge when (I believe) Dr. Tomrain reminds Ethan that even though the ruins are 18,000 years old, they were far more advanced and chides him for assuming that "ancient" is synonamous with "primitive".

If we were to assume that PSO and PSU are all connected into a singular continuity - there could have been multiple instances of civilization rising and falling throughout the millenia. Between the time of Algo's genesis and the defeat of the Profound Darkness lies millions upon millions of years. In contrast, the main PS series takes place over the course of just two thousand years. In that time, culture in the system went from slightly futuristic where space travel was just starting to become a mainstay of society, to hyper advanced under the control of computer AI, to midevil, to Renessance. Palma and Motavia changed orbits and underwent substancial changes themselves. Motavia was completely terraformed into an Eden and primary agricultural center of the system - and Palma was completely destoryed.

So PSU's level of technology does absolutely nothing to attempt to date the series... even if the levels of technology are similar. Both societies have access to photon energy (In PSO it's a new thing, while in PSU it's a well established and researched technology).. which only means they both tapped the same resources. Which should be expected though.. I mean, if you take two seperate cultures which have no contact with each other - but who both live around an abundance of water, you would expect similar technological discoveries - such as ships, nets, ect.


Phantasy Star I had magic, in the old times, however, after that, magics were lost. Technics kind of replaced magic but not fully. Gone is the ability to resurrect. You died, you died completely.

The whole deal with techniques and magic is never very well explained in the game. You have to read up on it in other materials, which is questionable in it's cannonity.

As I understand it - Magic was never very prevelant in the Algol solar system. Lutz can use magic as one of his innate talents - much like his foresight ability (which the Divine Maiden seems to share) and because of his use of this talent to aid a minstral survive an attack on his village by a Leviathan - he was adopted into the Espers. Alisa's ability to use magic is unexpelained - but it's likely a talent passed on through the royal bloodline. The ability to cast magic would definately have put Waizz Landale head and shoulders above his peers when vyying for power. (Noone at the time had techniques). Myau could cast magic, but he was described as a rare genetic abnormality. Much like humans, Musk Cats who can cast magic are very rare - and no other of their race in the series has shown this talent.

The implimentation of Techniques in Algol is attributed to Lutz, but he didn't invent them. The only tidbit which explains this is a short comic series in S.P.E.C magazine called "The Outside Saga". Basically what happened was that shortly after the events of Phantasy Star I, Alis and Lutz were traveling to Dezolis when their space shuttle was sabotaged by loyalists to Lassic. The craft spiraled off course and eventually landed on a small habitable planet in another solar system. Lutz eventually returned to Algol with the knowladge of techniques that he learned or developed on this planet. Alis, however, stayed behind and went into crygenic sleep. This is seen as a precursor to Phantasy Star Gaiden. (However, in PSG, magic is still used rather than techniques. Alec had the ability to cast magic, poorly, but Mina's talent with magic can be explained since she is a direct clone of Alis. PS:G was actually the first apperance of Faleli - which is the first spell you see Rune cast in PSIV and establishes the clear difference between Magic and Techniques.)

At any rate, when Lutz returns to Algol he brings with him the knowladge of Techniques and spreads it among the populace to help aid them in defence against monsters and preforming daily tasks.

As for ressurection - that's not entirely true. You can still ressurect people in Phantasy Star II by using the clone lab. (Except Nei, since apperantly her DNA structure is too different to be compatable) You didn't actually ressurect anyone in PSIII or PSIV since "dead" were consdiered unconcious and were returned back to health after spending a night at the inn.

[Akaimizu]

True, but clones were not ressurections. It's quite possible the original body and everything died. A clone isn't exactly the same person, even though they sort of continue where they left off. I'm not sure if there is a canon explanation as to whether the clone is really the same person, body and soul, or just a new person that retains a good bit of the prior body's memories, a shell built from a template.

Someone can sort of try to mix everything together, but I would still believe that any attempt to mix them will draw a lot of people who have differing opinions on what really happened. They could be both right (given the holes needed to fill), but they would be just as unmoving about what they think happened. I guess, spacing them quite far apart, thus not really having to deal with inconsistancies is the safe method.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-01-23 11:58 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

A clone isn't exactly the same person, even though they sort of continue where they left off.

I would be more apt to say that they were the same people - since everything about that person's memories and personality were able to be stored (Data Memory) and retrieved when a new body was cloned.

There is no easy or definitive answer to this though - and the problems with it are touched in PSO: Ep III when Ino'lis betrays the Hunters and gets Kranz killed. He's still the same old Kranz, because his memories and all of who he is was recorded and placed into the clone. However, Ino'lis is still doubtful and feels responsible for his apperant death.

Actually, anyhow, magic wasn't the major ressurection method in PSI. Magic was rare and held only by a few select individuals. Most ressurections were preformed through religeous rituals. However, since that particular religeous institution (Catholosism apperantly) was abandoned (possibly forcably) by PSII's time they weren't around to ressurect characters in later games.

Magic could also ressurect, but as said, it was rare.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-01-23 12:06 ]</font>

[OnnaWren]

Hmmm... maybe the AUW calendar was used before the institution of the AC calendar?

And I don't see how Numans/Beasts could have possibly existed pre-PSII, since the Palmans were only begining to experiment with genetic manipulation at that time (life-forms created to survive on Motavia through breed improvements, etc.)... unless there was a lost civilization prior to AUW? But why then no Espers/Motavians/Dezorians etc?

Hmm. Every thought simply breeds more questions.

[Sinue_v2]

And I don't see how Numans/Beasts could have possibly existed pre-PSII, since the Palmans were only begining to experiment with genetic manipulation at that time (life-forms created to survive on Motavia through breed improvements, etc.)

It's one helluva streach, but it's possible that PSU actually takes place just a few 20-30 thousand years after the final battle between the Great Light and the Profound Darkness. The Great Light was wiped out by the containment - which explains their lack of presence in that solar system. Perhaps the SeeD is a form of the original darkness which fought with the light, which would explain why they are attracted to A-Photons.

Perhaps Newmans and Beasts eventually evolved into Motavians and Dezolians over the years? From the dialouge in the game, we already know that Beast DNA is unstable - which has the immediate result in the race slowly loosing the ability to Nanoblast with each successive generation. Perhaps some of their feral DNA construction becomes dominant over time? The change into Dezolians could be a response to Neudaiz freezing over. As I said... a lot can change over several million years. It would certainly make a bit of sence though, considering that both Dezolians and Newmans worship the light - and they are both highly religous people.


unless there was a lost civilization prior to AUW?

Bingo. I think if PSU has any chance of being convincingly connected to the previous PS series - as it stands now it'll have to a prequal.

The whole idea of the games being connected in this fashion is pretty out there - and I'm sure it's full of holes. I wouldn't even attempt to try to seriously connect them until we have the whole story - and much of it is still in the process of being revealed.

Not to mention that the simplest answer - is also the correct one. They are not connected in a single continuity. PS, PSO, and PSU are all seperate storylines independant of each other.

[Dragnorok]

i think PSU may be a prequal to PSO where the RUINS lvl in PSO is one of the seed infected satelites from PSU that would have drifted away from the Gurhal sytem and crash landed on Ragol years before pioneer 1 reached it. Thus explaning y the animals on ragol suddenly got violent when the satelite was opened up, because they got infected by the seed and the creatures in the ruins would be seed forms. or something along those lines



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dragnorok on 2007-01-23 22:42 ]</font>

[OdinTyler]

Also, lets not forget that you COULD clone Nei up until that one fateful moment. So basically, we're supposed to believe that you could clone her over & over again & then...not? Nice, Sega! No, Ive not forgiven them for that! LOL

As for the timeline, I would like to know how it factors in with A(U)W. I have a calendar that converted AW to Earth years & vice versa. Wish there were an AW to AOC converter. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif It would just help...

[Sinue_v2]

i think PSU may be a prequal to PSO where the RUINS lvl in PSO is one of the seed infected satelites from PSU that would have drifted away from the Gurhal sytem and crash landed on Ragol years before pioneer 1 reached it.

That's an interesting idea - which you could probably make work if you developed it more. The only problem I really see off the bat is the seal and the presence of a terraformed interior. The seal on PSO's ruins reads: "Light makes darkness, a pair exists, but it doesn't always exist. Reincarnation goes forever. The rule is here. It should be sealed. MUUT DITTS POUMN". The pair existing could refer to both the Holy Light and the SeeD - and planets match up. Muut (Moatoob), Poumn (Parum)... and Ditts (Neudaiz).

As for the terraformed interior, I wouldn't know how to explain that in reguards to PSU. It matches very closely to the Sunken Palance in PSIII... the place where Orakio and Laya originally sealed Dark Force. In PSIII it was at the bottom of a lake - but in PSO it was at the bottom of a valley - which could very well be a dried up lakebed. There's also his Pandora's Box (sitting in front of his obelisk).. which thus far hasn't been present in PSU. Expecially since there is no real "Dark Force/Falz" presented yet in PSU. Dulk Fakis is presented more like a very powerful SeeD form.


Thus explaning y the animals on ragol suddenly got violent when the satelite was opened up, because they got infected by the seed and the creatures in the ruins would be seed forms.

That's actually already been explained in PSO. It was Dark Falz's influence which caused the creatures to become violent. There was no (known) "SeeD Infection". However, there was the D-Cellular infection - and the creatures infected by that (via Beta 772) were the Altered Beasts of the underground caves.

[Astarin]

On 2007-01-24 12:02, Sinue_v2 wrote:

Thus explaning y the animals on ragol suddenly got violent when the satelite was opened up, because they got infected by the seed and the creatures in the ruins would be seed forms.

That's actually already been explained in PSO. It was Dark Falz's influence which caused the creatures to become violent. There was no (known) "SeeD Infection". However, there was the D-Cellular infection - and the creatures infected by that (via Beta 772) were the Altered Beasts of the underground caves.


A viral "infection" that causes life forms to become violent and more powerful? Sounds like they're the same thing to me.

I actually rather like this the "PSU is a prequel to PSO" theory, especially if you don't try to link these games to the rest of the mainstream Phantasy Star series. Attempts to link them all always sparks debate due to the many complexities and plot holes that arise. Universe and Online can be linked with much more... ease.

[Akaimizu]

I would have it easier having PSU after PSO. In know people can say the development of CASTS wouldn't matter if civilization did a *restart* so to speak. However, even if I didn't mention how the PSU casts look like proper steady continuations of CAST work from Dr. Monty's (That newman inventor) experiments; there is a CAST bodywork in PSU that is written to be actually based off a particular famous CAST. That CAST's name is Elenor, who happens to be in PSO.

[Sinue_v2]

A viral "infection" that causes life forms to become violent and more powerful? Sounds like they're the same thing to me.

Sorry, I probably didn't explain that as clearly as I should have...

The native creatures of Ragol were not infected with any sort of virus or germ. They were influenced by Dark Falz's spiritual energy. His overwhelming hatred and lust for violence and revenge is what was imparted on the native creatures of Ragol. In this way, he controlled them in much the same way he controlled many of the people of Pioneer 2 such as Ult in "Soul of Steel" and the FOmarl you find in the "From the Depths" quest.

The Altered Beasts PSO were directly infected with D-Cellular factors - which caused their aggressive and radical biological & behavioral changes.

In PSU - the aggresive nature of the native creatures is directly attributed to infection by SeeD spores. (Advanced SeeD infections which cause mutations result as a prolonged exposure or massive exposure to SeeD spores.

The difference is between a spiritual force, and a biological one.


actually rather like this the "PSU is a prequel to PSO" theory, especially if you don't try to link these games to the rest of the mainstream Phantasy Star series. Attempts to link them all always sparks debate due to the many complexities and plot holes that arise. Universe and Online can be linked with much more... ease.

Not really - because the apperant lack of plotholes is simply due to not yet having people pick the theories apart with events from the games and inject their own theories based on those changes. The references and connections to PS in PSO are actually VERY direct and VERY easy to connect through offical canon. The only two real sumbling blocks are Coral (some of us try to connected it to PS by saying it's Copto from PS Gaiden - though it works even better as a stand-alone coincidental culture) and the lack of offical confirmation by Sonic Team.

As it is right now, PSO's connection to PSU (and PS's connection to PSU) require a great deal of conjecture and fanfiction elements - assumptions - to make it work. And as said, we don't even have the full PSU storyline, so serious connection efforts and conjecture will have to wait.


However, even if I didn't mention how the PSU casts look like proper steady continuations of CAST work from Dr. Monty's

Well, this theory that was presented assumes PSO took place after PSU. You cannot have a steady progression of Dr. Monty's work before Dr. Monty even existed. If you think it's easier to consider PSU a sequel to PSO - then write up a theory and share it. I actually have an idea in mind already for that contingency - and I agree that it would be much easier to connect PSU to PSO as a sequel than as a direct prequal.

(Though not because of clothing or art-style.. more to do with the similarities between the Germ and the SeeD infection. The containment system is plausable since the Great Light wasn't destroyed, and could possibly have created other containment systems in other solar systems.)


there is a CAST bodywork in PSU that is written to be actually based off a particular famous CAST. That CAST's name is Elenor, who happens to be in PSO.

I would consider that coincidental. You cannot connect the storylines in that way simply because there are far too many weapons and references to prior games to make logical sence. Sonic Team didn't put them in as plot-points, but rather just put them in as references for fans of the previous games.

If you went that route, you would be FORCED to acknowladge the PS/PSO connection due to the presence of weapons like Nei's and Rika's claw in PSO - and the Psycho Wand in PSO & PSU.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sinue_v2 on 2007-01-24 13:20 ]</font>

[Alisha]

linear line looks very reminiscent of the ruins. is it possible the ruins is the guardians colony? if another race war broke out the colony would probally be the most vulnerable. the only thing is if the guardians colony crashed on parum it would be lucky to not end up like palma. if ragol is parum perhaps the leukon knights came from relics sites. the leukon knights have long been a source of confusion for me.