Forces, are they needed?

[Caliban_King]

I was thinking about this a little yesterday, and I think I all of a sudden dislike forces.

As far as buffing and healing goes, I can do that for myself with items. If the forces buffs are much better than my X-arides, I can't tell. Items are faster anyway, if I can, I like to try and keep moving.

Techs they use on enemies sometimes blind me. Granted, I can fight off the map just fine, but for me it's more fun when I can see what I'm hitting face-to-face.

And, well, I guess thats it. I can do for myself the two things I'd normally like most about classes like the Force, all while being able to see.

I'm not against forces, I'll still group with them and so on, but the question remains,are they needed?

Or better yet, can they serve a function that I or anyone else can't do themselves?

[ljkkjlcm9]

well, if you don't have infinite meseta, they are very nice for healing you and buffing you. Plus they're not meant to be the main damage dealers, but they're very good support for when I'm in there taking the hits.

THE JACKEL

[Sychosis]

Is any singular class ever truly NEEDED?

[Akaimizu]

Actually, I find forces to be great damage dealers as well.

I actually find everybody to be a great support, as long as everybody is thinking of each other when fighting. Well, ok, the Hunters not so much, but even they can use considerations for the best use of the entire party.

A combined assault allows you to easily take down stuff that normally would give you trouble, and at a fraction of the cost.

[Pengfishh]

Rarely matters what class is in a party of six.

[Dre_o]

I figure it's not so much the Class as it is the SKILL of the users.

Example?: My brother and I (FO and HU, respectively) can handle just about any S Rank mission you throw at us, getting an S result on that mission in reasonable time. How? Simple, our skill out weighs the enemies' power.

EDIT: I've seen 6 man teams lose 2-3 men at a time just because of lack of skill.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dre_o on 2007-02-12 13:35 ]</font>

[Caliban_King]

No, no one is ever NEEDED, least not in PSU. Which is nice.

Maybe I'm just thinking of them too much as typical MMO support/healer class. Seeing as we're all Duncan Mcleod, I guess it doesn't matter too much what you are.

But they still make it hard to see>_<.

[-Ryuki-]

Are ForteFighters needed? No, but they are still welcomed.
Are ForteTechers needed? No, but they are a valuable asset.
Are ForteGunners needed? Yeah. There's just some things you can't do without SE, and Rangers do it best.

[Shadow_Wing]

Are ForteGunners needed? Yeah. There's just some things you can't do without SE, and Rangers do it best.

Word Ryuki

Teir 3 buffs are better than the store bought ones, which are teir 2

[-Ryuki-]

Tier^

[Ryno]

...omg

[Yuicihi]

Before Hybird, they make pretty good support. After, they become Nuking and Support specialists.

Regardless, a party can always use the added insurance of a Force.

[Soukosa]

On 2007-02-12 13:36, RyukiZero wrote:
Are ForteGunners needed? Yeah. There's just some things you can't do without SE, and Rangers do it best.

Since we all know that only fGs are capable of using decent SEs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

Though all classes have a use and none of them are entirely mission critical.

[Almalexia]

. . .Nobody is perfect and forces are definitly needed to keep the really stupid people alive. God, you have no idea what kind of stupidity I've seen in some parties. Why would you LET burn/virus/poison continue to eat up your HP? Why would you sit at half hp..K you get the point. And forces are there for the stupid people who don't bother to use sols to "free" others who can't help themselves out of freeze or paralyze>_>.

For the smart/know how to dodge/use sols/use anti/players, forces can focus on dealing damage and they are really good for that. I'll say that in a party without any type of force no matter how less damage we all take - very noticable when once isn't present.

I take less damage now that I abuse the knowledge of elemental armors, but I'm never going to feel "they aren't needed" or any other class that matter. There is always couple of reasons you will need someone. Always.

[SolomonGrundy]

Forces are the most likely to resta you, or reverser you. So I love them.

While most of the forces I partied with weren't exactly on the stick with buffs and debuffs I can't really get all that excited about that aspect, But I can say that a Fortecher Resta is very muchy appreciated.

I partied with a guntecher the other day; Cast. That resta was...less helpful.

[Yuicihi]

On 2007-02-12 13:58, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Forces are the most likely to resta you, or reverser you. So I love them.

While most of the forces I partied with weren't exactly on the stick with buffs and debuffs I can't really get all that excited about that aspect, But I can say that a Fortecher Resta is very muchy appreciated.

I partied with a guntecher the other day; Cast. That resta was...less helpful.

Think about that for a few moments; The reasoning should come to you. educate;

[omegapirate2k]

Dude, why would you post this, it's like a big sign that says "FIGHT HERE"

[Almalexia]

LOL @ not appreciated a Guntecher atleast trying to be supportive to a party. When you hear that "ding" sound from thier tech and it's white, RUN to them. God.

Oh what's the use, only fighters will appreciate supports.

[Esufer]

"Forces, are they needed?"

Is the pope jewish?

[Rashiid]

do we really need hunters? all ya do is knock everything all over the place, not letting our powerful hits, hit

rangers, yeah, there cool, but we can cause SEs too

[mananas]

I was going to say "Are any classes needed?" but several beat me to it.

[McLaughlin]

Are these topics ever needed?

The answer to both is no. Just like a Fighgunner, or a Fortefighter, or any singular class isn't NEEDED. The thing is, it's FAR more efficient to have a _______techer because you don't need to waste resources on something a Force can do without thinking.

These topics only ever start supremacy wars.

[Jey]

This is a stupid flamebait topic.

Of course forces aren't needed, but neither are you.

[RadiantLegend]

RESTA FTW!!!!

[Esufer]

PSU needs forces like Fat Children need cupcakes.

They're nice to have. But dependency on them is bad for you. =P

[McLaughlin]

On 2007-02-12 14:31, Reigast wrote:
PSU needs forces like Fat Children need cupcakes.

They're nice to have. But dependency on them is bad for you. =P



That is the best metaphor I've seen in several months.

[Ravennittes]

All classes arn't needed. HOWEVER, without ANY classes, a mission is never started or completed. Thus, the needed element is players. Without them there is no game. Without them there is no fun. So I will state the obvious: every class has a niche to fill which can't be taken away as they excell in that area, over and beyond all other classes combined.

[DizzyDi]

Forces don't do damage?
lolwut?

[pso123hrf]

To pee, or not to pee...

I say yes because they can do 500+ to enemys or 350+ to multiple. When your doing Bruce B, how the fuck are you going to heal Bruces' bald head?

I'm part force [Guntecher ] (looking sexy with my cards) and I do more SE's than you will EVAH see.

:3

PS (edit) I don't heal at all...got tired of that. Just thank me for the Paralysis >:3

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pso123hrf on 2007-02-12 17:53 ]</font>

[gundam0079]

ive noticed that the amount of Forte techers in the ps2/pc players have dropped and that GT and WT are takin over the healin responsibilites

[Drake_24]

Yes Forces are needed =) we can deal great damage if the person uses the right spells and also I dont really care for buffs I like to kill things with Foie and what not http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[SolomonGrundy]

That is the best metaphor I've seen in several months.



you should listen to more Rap then. The exact line is "I love you like a fat kid loves cake"

-50 cent

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


oh, and it's not that I didn't appreciate the Guntecker resta. Hell, I appreciate my 410's resta (all 96 points of it!), it just made me appreciate Force Resta *more*

[Arigan]

On 2007-02-12 13:23, Caliban_King wrote:
Techs they use on enemies sometimes blind me. Granted, I can fight off the map just fine, but for me it's more fun when I can see what I'm hitting face-to-face.

Honestly, as a force, I'd feel way worse about this if I hadn't played in the early days with hunters all using any PA with knockback they could while I had to use diga or foie to do much of anything damage wise. . . but I did play then, so I don't really feel bad about making it impossible to see anything with dambarta.

As far as the rest goes, I agree with pretty much everyone else, no classes are NEEDED.

[egn56]

lmfao yep us cast guntecher or resta blows, but debuffs are great.

Are forces needed necessarily? no.
Are forces good to have? yes. Support is one thing, and than they sadly can do massive amount of damage if they are fortetechers....(cheap diga)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: egn56 on 2007-02-12 18:48 ]</font>

[Sekani]

On 2007-02-12 13:36, RyukiZero wrote:
Are ForteFighters needed? No, but they are still welcomed.
Are ForteTechers needed? No, but they are a valuable asset.
Are ForteGunners needed? Yeah. There's just some things you can't do without SE, and Rangers do it best.


Congrats, you lose the internet.

[PMB960]

On 2007-02-12 17:50, pso123hrf wrote:

I say yes because they can do 500+ to enemys or 350+ to multiple. When your doing Bruce B, how the fuck are you going to heal Bruces' bald head?



500? Thats it? At level 70 it is more like 2K+ to lightning enemies with 700+ to multiple. I say Forces are well liked in parties but not necessary. One major problem though is that people get too dependent on them.

[Garnet_Moon]

70 Newearl fT10

2700 to 1 enemy
1400 to 3 enemies
1000 to 6 enemies

However, we do more than just damage. We are also the best healers in the game. In addition, we have the best buffs too. Are we valuable? Yes, yes we are. Are we needed? Hardly. Some maps are better with a WT as the heal/buff bot, and others can be done with all fG/GT's. *shrugs*

[Rashiid]

si, were not needed, but i agree w/ the guy that said ppl grow on them too much

i had 1 guy run in circles around me when he was 1/4 health gone (still bright green)....im like WTF USE A DIMATE!

it was againts De Ragan and my diga tops everyones damage in tha party, and he wants me to stop just to heal his booboo....

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2007-02-12 19:38, Rashiid wrote:
si, were not needed, but i agree w/ the guy that said ppl grow on them too much

i had 1 guy run in circles around me when he was 1/4 health gone (still bright green)....im like WTF USE A DIMATE!

it was againts De Ragan and my diga tops everyones damage in tha party, and he wants me to stop just to heal his booboo....


Exactly. Let them use mates from time to time. If they get a dependency on us they will be utterly useless in the more serious missions. Resta 21+ has a large range, sure, but it's not as big as everybody thinks it is... I stress every time I do Dimma S that I want a backup healer. GT or WT preferably. Not because I can't handle it, but it's hard to be by everybody in such an open and deadly zone. Hell, I refuse to do Desert Goliath S without at least 2 other people with resta. That's not lazy, that's called when I die we have 2 others to keep people alive while I resurrect with scapes and rebuff myself.

[Rashiid]

ive managed to diciplin a couple of mah friends, now they never need forces,
*sigh*, i wish there was an easier way to teach ppl....

[Sychosis]

On 2007-02-12 19:42, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2007-02-12 19:38, Rashiid wrote:
si, were not needed, but i agree w/ the guy that said ppl grow on them too much

i had 1 guy run in circles around me when he was 1/4 health gone (still bright green)....im like WTF USE A DIMATE!

it was againts De Ragan and my diga tops everyones damage in tha party, and he wants me to stop just to heal his booboo....


Exactly. Let them use mates from time to time. If they get a dependency on us they will be utterly useless in the more serious missions. Resta 21+ has a large range, sure, but it's not as big as everybody thinks it is... I stress every time I do Dimma S that I want a backup healer. GT or WT preferably. Not because I can't handle it, but it's hard to be by everybody in such an open and deadly zone. Hell, I refuse to do Desert Goliath S without at least 2 other people with resta. That's not lazy, that's called when I die we have 2 others to keep people alive while I resurrect with scapes and rebuff myself.



Heh, I remember a time when you hated forces.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2007-02-12 19:48, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-02-12 19:42, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2007-02-12 19:38, Rashiid wrote:
si, were not needed, but i agree w/ the guy that said ppl grow on them too much

i had 1 guy run in circles around me when he was 1/4 health gone (still bright green)....im like WTF USE A DIMATE!

it was againts De Ragan and my diga tops everyones damage in tha party, and he wants me to stop just to heal his booboo....


Exactly. Let them use mates from time to time. If they get a dependency on us they will be utterly useless in the more serious missions. Resta 21+ has a large range, sure, but it's not as big as everybody thinks it is... I stress every time I do Dimma S that I want a backup healer. GT or WT preferably. Not because I can't handle it, but it's hard to be by everybody in such an open and deadly zone. Hell, I refuse to do Desert Goliath S without at least 2 other people with resta. That's not lazy, that's called when I die we have 2 others to keep people alive while I resurrect with scapes and rebuff myself.



Heh, I remember a time when you hated forces.


So do I! This kid's growin' up and ditching the childish "j00 suck!" way of thinking! T_T

[Sychosis]

That's what we need around here, less stupid! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Palefire]

As far as buffing and healing goes, I can do that for myself with items. If the forces buffs are much better than my X-arides, I can't tell. Items are faster anyway, if I can, I like to try and keep moving.

Trust me, they are. Items can only buff you so much, you can only carry so many of them, and you can only use them once. Zodiaride is a poor substitute indeed for Zodial that's even only at level 10. And when you use that Zodiaride, it's gone forever.

Me, I'd rather use my carrying space for loot.


Techs they use on enemies sometimes blind me. Granted, I can fight off the map just fine, but for me it's more fun when I can see what I'm hitting face-to-face.

And, well, I guess thats it. I can do for myself the two things I'd normally like most about classes like the Force, all while being able to see.

O.o


There's no reason spells from a FO should blind you...not when the enemies use the exact same spells against you. Besides, there's always the option of turning off the spell effects on your graphics card if it's that much of an issue.


That's what we need around here, less stupid! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif



Word...so much word. You win. Again.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Palefire on 2007-02-12 20:13 ]</font>

[Ryo_Hayasa]

I enjoy my Force support, with Two Fortetechers in a party, one with a Primary in support secondary in attack, and vice versa with the second techer, myself as the Fighgunner (for close range and long range battle) with my Wartecher bud who is always there to watch my back, Throw in a ForteFighter and a Fortegunner, Bam! that's a party good enough to topple just about anything.

No class is "Needed" in PSO no class was "Needed".

But it's nice to have a Force, or a strong hunter, or a well rounded ranger. Whatever makes the job of beating that boss, getting that S-rank, hunting that rare easier or faster.

[Schubalts]

The only needed class is the Rappy Knight, which will become available after you: synth a Rappy room decoration; get a Rappy Suit; AND get all other classes to 10.

[Alisha]

On 2007-02-12 19:38, Rashiid wrote:
si, were not needed, but i agree w/ the guy that said ppl grow on them too much

i had 1 guy run in circles around me when he was 1/4 health gone (still bright green)....im like WTF USE A DIMATE!

it was againts De Ragan and my diga tops everyones damage in tha party, and he wants me to stop just to heal his booboo....



i'm gonna call BS. if a force is outdamaging hunters on de regan they are probally fucking dumbasses and attacking the legs or something instead of the neck. or there is some type of level disadvantage.

it sounds like some forces dont know thier places. FF's can only do damage. FT can damage and heal.

[Tra]

Just pretend I'm a fortefighter that can buff when you party with me, because I only use trimates as far as healing goes and I'm always tanking the enemies http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[-Ryuki-]

On 2007-02-12 19:13, Sekani wrote:

On 2007-02-12 13:36, RyukiZero wrote:
Are ForteFighters needed? No, but they are still welcomed.
Are ForteTechers needed? No, but they are a valuable asset.
Are ForteGunners needed? Yeah. There's just some things you can't do without SE, and Rangers do it best.


Congrats, you lose the internet.

Nice try.

[Reginaldo]

All classes are necessary, it's called variety.

[Almalexia]

On 2007-02-12 22:58, Alisha wrote:

On 2007-02-12 19:38, Rashiid wrote:
si, were not needed, but i agree w/ the guy that said ppl grow on them too much

i had 1 guy run in circles around me when he was 1/4 health gone (still bright green)....im like WTF USE A DIMATE!

it was againts De Ragan and my diga tops everyones damage in tha party, and he wants me to stop just to heal his booboo....



i'm gonna call BS. if a force is outdamaging hunters on de regan they are probally fucking dumbasses and attacking the legs or something instead of the neck. or there is some type of level disadvantage.

it sounds like some forces dont know thier places. FF's can only do damage. FT can damage and heal.



You don't know the power of forces yet must be. Forces outdamage EVERYONE. Yes even DE RAGAN. My Diga, lvl10 does 595 damage to De ragan A. And that's on the stomach. Fighters need a few more swings before matching that damage.

They aren't gimped/hitting wrong areas. Forces are just that powerful.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Almalexia on 2007-02-13 06:58 ]</font>

[Tahldon]

On 2007-02-13 06:49, Reginaldo wrote:
All classes are necessary, it's called variety.



Why don't more people understand this?

[Neith]

Resta meeeeee

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

And that's why I love Forces. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

I see Forces as a privilidge more than a Need. I've done hard areas without a FO, it just ends with spending a lot on Agtaride/Defbaride/Zodiaride/Retaride/Dimate/Trimate etc, etc.. If the Force knows what Resta/Reverser and buffs are, then it cuts down my upkeep costs by a lot. Even nuking like crazy is nice DoT- as long as it's not at the expense of keeping the party alive.

FO is a good damage dealer, but my opinion is that their primary role is support. Of course, when you have people who refuse to use Mates at all, that can become a problem.

Edit: If you're gonna talk about damaging classes, look up Fortegunner. Burn Lv4 is broken, and having traps to back that up is crazy.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2007-02-13 07:36 ]</font>

[_Deliverance_]

gg on making a stupid fucking thread, dumbass.
If you can't see through my Radiga, then you don't belong in the frontlines.

[Dhylec]

Discussion is OK, but this topic is a flamebait from the start. Let's put it out before people get warnings.

So, cool off & do something else people.