Well, this is rather interesting

[Dre_o]

Before I start, I'm posting this here in hopes of avoiding the usual onslaught of stupid morons. Please post considerately. Not to mention this is probably a rant.

Well today in school I got to thinking: "Hmm...how would I like to be burried?" Which of course my initial reaction is: "Well I'd want to go in a pair of blue jeans and a T-Shirt with a copy of Rainbow 6: 3 in one hand and Pokemon Pearl in the other."

From there it just started getting worse. I began to wonder, hmm....would I even want to go to heaven?...Just think about it. Stuck, for the rest of eternity in a nice and happy place where there are no human problems, no suffering, no day is different from the next, no arguements that eventually lead to stronger bonds. Nothing but happyness and glee.

But then to the contrary, would I like to spend my eternity in Hell?....Hell no! (XD) Eternal pain and suffering? Damned to the end of time? Nah, even that would eventually get boring and meaningless eventually.

So then I began to think. I'd probably rather live life over again. Like start life off from about age 5 and live life again. Of course, one would probably change stuff up, like location we lived in and the likes. I just think I'd rather live life, good bad and neutral all in one package. Unfortuanetly, one would begin to lose the value of life at that point, especially if we knew that this was another life and nothing but another was waiting for us down the road....so would our memory have to be wiped clean? But if it was, what would be the point? Just living life again? Existing the exact same way we had in the past?

No. We'd have to change it up. We would be able to mentally know about this "next life" but we wouldn't be able to consciously alter our decisions or lives about it. We would also perfer to change things up every once in a while. Perhaps add a little girl into the family for a lifetime or something (I've got 2 brothers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif )

Ugh....I don't know....my hands are beginning to become a little tired saying that I typed this at almost full speed. Not to mention this whole talking about death is getting a little depressing....

Well then, now that I've wasted enough of your time (yes, even those of you who just skimmed it), tell me what you think about a subject like this. No, this doesn't have to become religously correct (for I don't fully belive in God), lets just keep the flaming of people's Jesus/Abraham/Allah/Zeus to a non existant level ok?

I predict this post gets 10 replies http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Out_Kast]

What's odd is that I also think about this around... once every 3 or so weeks. Just the thought of eternal life gives me the creeps.
And what do you even do in heaven? Is it like life, but in death? Or does your consience just sit there over your grave and watch as everyone comes round.
Also, wouldn't you get bored?
...
The answer is yes http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
But it'd be pretty awesome if you suddenly got granted the power to do anything you wanted, whenever you wanted (i.e. build yourself a mansion out of cloud and live in it in pure luxury [but forever!?]).
Weird thoughts.
And I think about that other life aswell. I always assume I'll come back to life again, but for all I know, I could have been through 1495 previous lives, and not know a thing about any of them.
Another thing I often wonder about is childhood. Why is it that no-one can remember anything from birth until they were around 5 or 6?
Odd.
Not something I like thinking about, in any case http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[DikkyRay]

You arent alone, i myself wonder what will happen to me when i die.
Luckily i believe in God so that comfoorts me.(100 bucks i get flames for that XD)
But eh, i posted already, dont plan to ever look in this thread again lol

[Scejntjynahl]

I become worm food. My energies will disperse into entropy and my consciousness wil be lost to me for all time.

[EphekZ]

On 2007-02-12 14:31, Scejntjynahl wrote:
I become worm food. My energies will disperse into entropy and my consciousness wil be lost to me for all time.



and that's the blatant truth. kinda sucks, but whatever. i'd really like to see what happens when you die. it'd be kind of cool to die for an hour or two, see what happens and then come back you know? hell, if something does happen after you die and you come back, something like that would ultimatly change your life. knowing that and what not. Thing is I kinda fear death, not so much at the first part, but just thinking what happens to your mind and such, it is rather depressing to just be gone. it would probably help if I was religious, believing, or rather being able to believe and having that faith, seems nice.

edit: is it possible for a skeptic to be religious? perhaps that's why I don't have faith. seems contradictory; skeptic, but having faith in something that has no form or anything, that just lives in ones mind.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EphekZ on 2007-02-12 15:09 ]</font>

[Sinue_v2]

I've been thinking about this for awhile as well - mainly because I'm half-way through reading Dante's "Divine Comedy". I have to say though that Hell (or at least some parts of it) and purgetory by his account wouldn't be so bad... the upper layer of hell at least, because of all the increadilbly intelligent and impressive people there. People who's only sin was dying without having faith in Christ. (I haven't really reached the parts on Purgetory yet, but from the synopsis it seems that Purgetory is reserved for those who lived sinful lives and then repented at the last moment).

Personally, I was raised Roman Catholic - and I still hold to many of their beliefs and tennants... however I can't just blindly accept their explanation for everything. I know there is a life after this one. I know Jesus Christ is (at least my own) savior and gateway to this afterlife. Much beyond that I can't say. If god is as omnipotent and omnipresent as they say - then there's no possible way we can concievably have the slightest idea about who he truely is and what his plans for us are. We know about as much about god as a goldfish in a tank knows about us.

[Almalexia]

The movie Bicentinnial man taught me that eternal life comes with a huge sacrifice and certainly huge enough for me to never want to live forever.

You can't die with your lover; IMO the best way to go in this world aside from sleeping.

Eternal life is actually an Eternal prison. You are fated to repeat the same things over and over and over again. You will meet great people and they pass on while you remain. It will get depressing. And Depression is far worse than death - dealing with that for an eternity would be. . . .well suicide attempts would be everyday but to no avail.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Almalexia on 2007-02-12 15:54 ]</font>

[Garroway]

An interesting topic that I find myself thinking about a great deal actualy (I'm not getting any younger after all). The only real truth about the entire concept is that nobody knows for sure what happens to our concious when we die. I've read many books on various religions and they all seem to come back to faith without proof. The most difficult concept for me is in the christian religions in where there is a concept of the devil, whom we should beware of. The devil will tell us lies. The foundation of the religion is blind faith in something that cannot be proven, even considering it blasphemy to doubt. The entire concept seems counterintuitive to me. On the scientific side of things we really have even less to go on. It seems every decade we're changing the rules about what we used to believe as indisputable fact. At the subatomic level the very laws of the Universe change and we start quantifying in probability rather than an absolute value. In the grand scheme humans know next to nothing about the space we inhabit. So pondering death naturaly leads me to ponder my very existance. Perhaps as a flawed being, my perception of reality is also flawed. Perhaps everything that I see and hear and feel is only a small part of something greater and more complex than what I am able to sense with my imperfect body. Even the concept of time seems like a clumsy device used by humans to break apart reality into a more percievable concept. Something our pitiful minds can make sense of. You wonder what happens when you die. I'm not sure I even know what life is. My birth into this body and this world might have been my start point, but I don't know if it was the start of a new chapter of existance or if it was the start of my existance.

To understand death one must understand life. I don't believe that humans are capable of understanding life. We may find that when our bodies die, reality is actualy different than we were able to percieve. Perhaps it's end of your conciousness, and this was all some cruel joke afterall. Perhaps some day we'll know.

I like to think that we'll continue on in some form, learning as we go.

[Daikarin]

We don't even know exactly what heaven or hell is, no use thinking about those two meanings especially if we don't know what they are. Don't go by what preachers say or by what you read in books.

If you're curious about death, research it thoroughly until you can create a body of knowledge from it. You're right, though. Studying death is depressing. Personally I prefer to simply let it come to me.

[WrathOfMegid]

Ya know, Dre_o, I almost envy people who believe mankind's suffering is a positive experience. Me, I find it wholly unnecessary. People think, "Eternal life sucks, man. Everyone around you dies, you get bored, blah blah blah, whine whine whine, piss piss piss, moan moan moan." Can't it be different? Why can't everyone have eternal life? Why does everyone assume that eternal life is only reserved for a chosen few, and the world continues as it was around them? Are we not human? Can we not learn? Imagine:

Unlimited time to do everything. No setbacks. Everyone you know and love is there supporting you, encouraging you. No pain to destroy you, no hurt to ruin a perfectly good relationship. I admit, good can be derived from hardship, but hardship is not necessary to derive good.

For instance: I am alive, and I am glad. I've never had any near death experiences, and I had no existence before life by which to compare my current state. I am happy to have life, but I have never had to lose it. So joy can be found despite a lack of hardship.
So I say: Hope for eternity, look for a belief that would seem too good to be true, because what else is worth believing? If perfect happiness can be had, why must we limit its scope? If you think your current version of eternal life lacks some element, upgrade it! Just because everyone around you says, "Hey, Bob, jumpin' off this cliff is funnnnnn...." doesn't make it true. Seek truth as for hid treasure. And don't settle for half-assed, cynical perceptions.

[hollowtip]

On 2007-02-12 17:00, Garroway wrote:
I don't believe that humans are capable of understanding life.


Either that or we're searching for meaning when in actuality, there's no such thing.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hollowtip on 2007-02-19 20:23 ]</font>

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2007-02-12 15:07, EphekZ wrote:
is it possible for a skeptic to be religious? perhaps that's why I don't have faith. seems contradictory; skeptic, but having faith in something that has no form or anything, that just lives in ones mind.


You just have to be choosy concerning what you're skeptical about. Start by being skeptical about mankind's ability to actually know as much as it thinks it does about the universe. Once you've acknowledged that regardless of how much we think we know (and how often our "facts" have been absolutely turned upside down upon new observations), there's still staggeringly more out there that we don't know, you'll find that faith becomes easier to accept.

Only a fool is sure he knows everything.

[VanDarkmind]

Well, I've got my own version of Life, having a sense and an Idea of the topic death. (And hey, I've just missed being depressed somehow)

In short- I would say - it's quite familiar to RPGs. Not about getting as much mesetas and the best Special Weapons. No. What I'm talking about is experience.
have you ever thought about it, when you realized that you have learned something essential and looking back to the time where you have been a totally stupid little child? (Hey, I don't blame children for being stupid http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif)
Realizing how experienced you are in some way (Whatever it is), Knowing you have reached something you wanted to have, isn't that, what it's all about? ( meh, this confers to PSO somehow. Levelup http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif)

Dieing and getting reborn (how some people believe in. I don't know if I do, but I'm not saying it isn't true) Might be some sort of new beginnig in a different way. Just like playing a HUney to LVL 200 and starting with a Racaseal next.

Maybe there's nothing in the End at all. Well, souds creepy but I suppose when it's over, it is over.
I don't think we can get bored in paradise. We're not having a Body that limits our abilities of imagination or sense. We're freed from our body when we're dieing (well, maybe not, I don't know. I have no experiences, or I cat remeber them http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif) So we're freed from every senses that are depending on having a body (Biochemical proceedings that are forcing us to do stupid things sometimes or something like an Adrenalinerush)

I suppose, everything has it's meaning and everything has it's place in this world. Good or not (I'm not a friend of the traditional belief of Good and Evil)

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2007-02-21 10:01, VanDarkmind wrote:
Well, I've got my own version of Life, having a sense and an Idea of the topic death. (And hey, I've just missed being depressed somehow)

In short- I would say - it's quite familiar to RPGs. Not about getting as much mesetas and the best Special Weapons. No. What I'm talking about is experience.
have you ever thought about it, when you realized that you have learned something essential and looking back to the time where you have been a totally stupid little child? (Hey, I don't blame children for being stupid http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif)


I suppose that it's worth pointing out that RPGs, and particularly, the systems that they're built on, are designed to model real life. There may indeed be something we can learn from them, yet.

I find it interesting that we can be so responsible with our resources in an RPG, and at the same time, so flippant with them in the real world.



Realizing how experienced you are in some way (Whatever it is), Knowing you have reached something you wanted to have, isn't that, what it's all about? ( meh, this confers to PSO somehow. Levelup http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif)


The trouble is, we tend to run out of steam after reaching our goals. It tends to be the persuit of our goals that drives us, as this is what gives us something to do. All to often, we find that once we've met our goals, there's nothing left to do with them.



I suppose, everything has it's meaning and everything has it's place in this world. Good or not (I'm not a friend of the traditional belief of Good and Evil)


A dictionary I looked it up in, defined "Good" as "That which contributes to the general well-being of the Universe". I thought that was a good definition. That makes "Evil", "That which is contrary to the general well-being of the Universe". I think these are both good definitions. They both leave plenty of room for trivial things that are unlikely to have any impact, therefore being neither Good nor Evil, but Neutral, and they provide a good foundation for my personal philosophy that the most important thing you can have is Balance. That is to say, things that are "traditionally" described as being either Good or Evil both need to coexist to balance the other out, otherwise, the universe will be bent toward one or the other, and too much of either will have negative consequences. Extremes in any direction are bad.

It's also best if the opposites are closer together, as this makes them easier to balance. If they are radically different, then any balance achieved will become unstable.

Consider, for example, what's happening between Western culture and Middle-Eastern culture, right now. Western culture places great value on personal rights and freedoms, while Middle-Eastern culture places great value on strict obedience, with very little freedom. They are not perfect opposites, but they are radically different. The end result is that coexisting is difficult and violent, because very little compromises can be met. The only balance possible is very unstable. The only real solution is to identify the cause of the chaos, and remove it from the world.

[Chloe1987]

Im not scared to die im just scared not to see the people i love again, i dont really think about death since theres no point because im going to die at somepoint anyway so i will find out - or not - then.

[DizzyDi]

Oh you guys are getting real deep in here.
I've also sat around and pondered on life, the universe, and everything.
I've come up with my own meaning of life: although we all have similar experiences in life, no two people's lives are the since. So its hard to define something that is so dynamic and varied, to define it would be lke putting it into box. So therefore the only real meaning of life is to just live.

And to comment on Meira\'s meaning of good and bad. I read a philosophy book that defined good as "something that has reached its goal or aim." So a good movie, a good meal, and a good basketball player are all things that have reached thier aim.
Movies a meant to entertain, so a good movie would be entertaining.
Meals these days are expected to taste good as well as fill you up, so a good meal would do just that.
And basketball players are sopposed to contribute on the court to the team's score, to hinder the other team, and the like, so a good basketball player would do just that.

I'm not really afraid of death. Its inevitable. Its something that will catch us all eventually, so fearing it is just wasted emotion at best. There was a time that I thought about what it would be like to just stop existing when you die, like you conciousness would be lost forever, and I think thats a pretty scary thought. I like to think that we continue existing somewhere, whether it be on this plane of existence or not.

[Firocket1690]

On 2007-02-22 07:56, DizzyDi wrote:
I'm not really afraid of death. Its inevitable. Its something that will catch us all eventually, so fearing it is just wasted emotion at best. There was a time that I thought about what it would be like to just stop existing when you die, like you conciousness would be lost forever, and I think thats a pretty scary thought. I like to think that we continue existing somewhere, whether it be on this plane of existence or not.


Sure. I'm still curious what comes at the end. But its' everybody else's fear of death that stops us. That's why cops think people who attempt suicide are "mentally unstable" Oooooh, yes. I've been here before. Kinda.

And such are the things that drift around one's mind when contemplating the meaning of life. No, seriously.

Well, it's that same fear that drives a bunch of people. People knowing they have a limited time before they die would motivate them to do more things, take more chances, try doing more, and "making more" of their lives.

Simultaneously, that same knowledge, knowing that we're all going to die anyway, saps the motivation out of some people, and then they lose motivation to pursue any opportunities, as it won't matter. we'll all end up dead someday.

Typically, I'd suggest the latter, more cynical perspective, but if one does go out and "make more" of their time of existance, then it usually inspires others to do the same, and people would be more active. Otherwise, people would be moaping around, living their mundane lives, practically just... waiting to die.

well, this is just a theory, but I think on another level, some people see life as a competition. Something like, being able to achieve more money, social status, respect, fame, etc. Just knowing that you're a step above other people, have done more in life than others. that itself might be the reason people are the way they are.

but! what of the selfless people, taking time of their lives to help others? where do they fit in? Is this if karma really exists, then there would be a benefit to this, but otherwise.. it's a waste of time. Well, it might fill in insecurities, and make them feel good about themselves, otherwise, no benefits.

I've had similiar thoughts for a while, and .. just never found a way to phrase it properly. thanks, dre_o.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Firocket1690 on 2007-02-25 01:51 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Firocket1690 on 2007-02-25 02:03 ]</font>

[Polyconsoler]

On 2007-02-25 01:49, Firocket1690 wrote:

but! what of the selfless people, taking time of their lives to help others? where do they fit in? Is this if karma really exists, then there would be a benefit to this, but otherwise.. it's a waste of time. Well, it might fill in insecurities, and make them feel good about themselves, otherwise, no benefits.



Helping other people is a waste of time? I tend to disagree. We're all in this crazy life together. If we don't support others, no one will be around to support us. Those who dedicate, say, their career to helping others are just taking it to the next level. If we truly do have only one life to live, and our own lives are already comfortable/content, shouldn't we do everything in our power to help others achieve the same?

As far as death goes... I don't believe in reincarnation or an afterlife in the normal sense of the words. We die, our bodies rot away and return to the earth. We become fertilizer for plants, those plants get eaten by prey animals, who are in turn eaten by predator animals. When those animals die, the cycle continues. In that sense, yes, I believe in reincarnation. It's like the trees and flowers and dear are my ancestors.

Ha >_> Do I sound like a hippie yet? It might sound silly to some people, but I find this belief very reassuring and comforting.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Polyconsoler on 2007-02-25 06:51 ]</font>

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2007-02-22 07:56, DizzyDi wrote:
And to comment on Meira's meaning of good and bad. I read a philosophy book that defined good as "something that has reached its goal or aim." So a good movie, a good meal, and a good basketball player are all things that have reached thier aim.


That is a dangerous definition, if used beyond its intended context. By that definition, a dirty bomb can be "good" if it successfully wipes out half a city, and leaves the other half blind and vomitting.

It sounds to me like that definition was written in the context of "Good vs Bad", where the subject may or may not be a reliable specimen of its kind, rather than the context of "Good vs Evil", where the subject's aptitude for benevolence is being described.

Certainly a valid definition of "good", but not one I would rely on to help me sort out the perils of the world.

[Firocket1690]

On 2007-02-25 06:28, Polyconsoler wrote:

On 2007-02-25 01:49, Firocket1690 wrote:

but! what of the selfless people, taking time of their lives to help others? where do they fit in? Is this if karma really exists, then there would be a benefit to this, but otherwise.. it's a waste of time. Well, it might fill in insecurities, and make them feel good about themselves, otherwise, no benefits.



Helping other people is a waste of time? I tend to disagree. We're all in this crazy life together. If we don't support others, no one will be around to support us. Those who dedicate, say, their career to helping others are just taking it to the next level. If we truly do have only one life to live, and our own lives are already comfortable/content, shouldn't we do everything in our power to help others achieve the same?


Fine. Aside from karma, "that giddy feeling", and assuming there's no afterlife, what do you get for helping others? an hour of life that could be spent elsewhere? loose change or a few bucks that could've bought something for yourself later? And such is the point of our will, and why we'd invest effort into things that usually won't return (IE, karma, or lack of)

Okay. Well, and then there's love, and how it can manage to make us twist our will to make someone else happy, but that is in a way, expecting soemthing in return; affection, or at least attention in some way.

my point stands

[Nixia]

On 2007-02-12 15:19, Sinue_v2 wrote:
People who's only sin was dying without having faith in Christ. (I haven't really reached the parts on Purgetory yet, but from the synopsis it seems that Purgetory is reserved for those who lived sinful lives and then repented at the last moment).



True, but a lot of their deaths--particularly the philosophers--preceded Christianity so it didn't matter how virtuous a life they lived, if they weren't Christian, they couldn't get into Heaven. Which sucks, really.

"For the only way to get into Heaven is to be Christian." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2007-03-01 09:24, Nixia wrote:
True, but a lot of their deaths--particularly the philosophers--preceded Christianity so it didn't matter how virtuous a life they lived, if they weren't Christian, they couldn't get into Heaven. Which sucks, really.

"For the only way to get into Heaven is to be Christian." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif


Actually, it's always been the same thing that earned a person passage into Heaven-- obedience to God. What that entails has varied; it used to require weekly sacrifices of lambs and doves or whatever, depending on what sort of week you've had; as well as various other rituals, some making more sense than others. Now it's as simple as recognizing what God did to demonstrate how He feels about you, and doing what you must to be, all around, a better person; though I suspect that there's a great deal of people who don't really understand it from that direction.