PSU-PC: Wartecher or Guntecher?

[Flwl3ssCowboy]

Making my 3rd character a Female Human, but not sure whether to make her a GT or WT:

DO NOT WANT:
no SE4
high PP refill cost (lol @ tight budget)
really low max PA level
edit: "pure" class or PT

DO WANT:
Decent ATP
SE4
Manageable money-wise
either WT or GT onry

obviously I'm going to have to make sacrifices one way or the other, but I'm just not sure which to make



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Flwl3ssCowboy on 2007-02-15 08:34 ]</font>

[Tiyr]

Wartechers don't get SE4. So for that alone you'll have to go guntecher. Also, WTs can't get anything above lvl 20, so there's that. GT's get pretty gimpy melee (why they get any is beyond me, and why anyone would melee with a GT is even more confusing) and tech skills, but get bullets to 30. Neither class has very good ATP. Of the force hybrids, WT get more but have terrible ATA. That said, bows ignore armor, so GTs can do some pretty good damage with them.

But ranged / force characters tend to spend more money on refills. I don't think the difference will be that horribly severe, though, since I use most of the main GT weapons on my FG and don't have many problems.

[Flwl3ssCowboy]

thanks, im gunna see if anyone else has an opposing argument or their own opinions before i make my decision

[Shiro_Ryuu]

well, for one thing, neither War or Gun techer have all 3 of what you want. Guntechers have SE4, but their ATP sux. Wartecher ATP is also not the best, maybe like in the middle, better than fT, PT, and GT, but nto as good as Fortefighter, Fighgunner, and Fortegunner. Wartechers also don't have level 4 SE, so they lose out on 2 of the things you want. I think Fortegunner may have all 3 of your wants since you use less PP when using guns which means less pp charging, 3rd best atp(only Fortefighter and Fighgunner have better atp), and SE4 with rifles. Well, just trying to help. In the end though, it all comes to preference of either melee or ranged if you still insist on either GT or WT. well, those are just my 2 cents.

[Akaimizu]

Very true. The wants don't seem the constitute any hybrid class. Since they all kind of side with a straight Ranger, it sounds more like a ForteGunner is your calling. Hybrids make best on a good combination of their abilities, which means sacrifice a little of one thing to support with another. However, unless your Wants list is longer, and with more things you want to do; I don't see the need to go hybrid for you.

Or do you really want to Melee a lot? In general, if you really want the best of Status Effects from guns, you generally have to give up great melee.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-02-15 07:46 ]</font>

[MegaBUD]

WT dont have SE4... lol

[Flwl3ssCowboy]

I'm easily willing to make sacrifices, as I wanna get a bonus for at least ONE of my characters (since this one's human the job'll be a hybrid class)

Considering the Bow thing, I'll just go wif GT, SE4 may compensate for lower ATP in the long run

Massive damage isn't a must for me, just as long as i do GOOD damage in some form, and like i said, I don't mind making some sacrifices so in this case I'll go GT, the other characters I have are FG and fF-wannabe anyway http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif time for a change in play

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Flwl3ssCowboy on 2007-02-15 08:11 ]</font>

[Callous]

Guntecher for sure. they have the exact same ATP as Wartechers* and you get lv 4 SE. Also, gun PP lasts a hell of a lot longer than hunter PP (unless you use basic attacks a lot, but that's really ineffective).

That said, you should really just consider going Fortegunner.

*At lvl 1. Don't know what it looks like at lvl 10.

[Flwl3ssCowboy]

WT have more at lv 10 i think, also i dont wanna do a "pure" class or PT. Hmmmm.. should add that to the list...

[Akaimizu]

Believe me. You'll definitely get a change in play with a Guntecher. It's a challenging class, but it's so rewarding when things *click* with it. To tell the truth, the dynamic way I feel I must play, definitely influences my feelings about most everything else, I've played online, for a while.

It makes my old online characters feel a bit shallow. Not that they weren't fun to play, but I don't get quite the same level of fast-thinking with such constant demand of my awareness (about everybody, every action, and thing in the room) that I get, with them.

It'll definitely be a learning experience for you. Because you're a Hybrid, you'll get some initial disappointments, because the magic of being one happens in experienced discovery. It doesn't immediately show its ability, at face value, like the non-Hybrids.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-02-15 08:39 ]</font>

[foamcup]

You really do not have a choice. If you want SE4, then you have to play guntecher. I just switched my newman to guntecher, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. GT can use Poison G and Burn G, so we can be backup trappers. I just got insei-sou to level 21 last night, so now I can hit the big guys with infection. As a newman, my resta isn't completely terrible, it just lacks range. One more class level OR two more character levels and I'll be able to use 9* wands. Since I'm level 69 though, it has to be class level. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif A majimra combined with a force unit should give me a respectable resta.

If you ever played a RAmar on PSO, this is basically how the class feels in my opinion. People ask me what class I am, I say RAnewm. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Akaimizu]

Insei-Sou is an excellent Bullet. Congrats on getting it to 21.

I've used an Armor-attached TP boost, myself. It's a small reason why my Techs work a little better than expected.

[ssl118]

GT for S rank Twin Handguns. That's reason enough for me.

[Flwl3ssCowboy]

On 2007-02-15 09:12, foamcup wrote:
If you ever played a RAmar on PSO, this is basically how the class feels in my opinion. People ask me what class I am, I say RAnewm. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


RAmar ftmfw

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-02-15 10:50, ssl118 wrote:
GT for S rank Twin Handguns. That's reason enough for me.



Heh heh. That's also reason enough for Tynselle. Nothing beats a *good* pair of Twin Gunnies!!!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-02-15 11:11 ]</font>

[omegapirate2k]

On 2007-02-15 11:11, Akaimizu wrote:
Nothing beats a *good* pair of Twin Gunnies!!!


Agreed. Twin gunnies are pwnage on bread.

[chibiLegolas]

I can only share my experiences as a GT (since I never played a WT).
But as a hybrid class, it's both unfortunate and conveniant that our techs never improve past 10. That pretty much limits our choices to buffs and debuffs. But at the same time, we wouldn't have to spend time improving them (except resta). So you're pretty much concentrating most of your time trying to get to SE4.

But at the same time, if you're looking for decent ATP, you're in the wrong class. Maybe it's just me, but with all the games I've been into (I'm a caseal lvl 39, GT 3), my damage output is only in par to non ranger characters 10 lvls below me. But I'm not playing GT for damage. I'm more concerned with tagging everything to get to bullet 21, and keeping everyone buffed.

As for PP usage to $ recharge costs...
I haven't played other classes to have anything to compare to, but I feel that I spend a good share of $ at the recharge cube myself. Anywhere from $700-$1100 in a B run with 4+ ppl (is that alot?).
Since I'm concerned with getting all my bullets to 21, I pretty much have to empty all my shots in my pallet. I just gotta make sure I carry enough guns for the mission.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif'

On the other hand, I'm still using C wands since buffs/debuffs aren't TP related. You just need a wand with good PP storage. So I'm saving a bit of $ that way at the recharge cube.

[Akaimizu]

Yes. These are all definite issues and growing pains of the Guntecher. I've experienced pretty much all of them. I also was an early experimenter for testing out certain bullets at level 30, to see if there's a big boost at the end or not. In general, as others have said, it's better to get multiples to 21 than the select few to 30. There's a heck of a lot of that (circa)80 hours of straight usage in order to raise a single bullet to 30, in some of these guns. (Time tested was with Twin handguns).

Also, eventually you'll have a bit of a choice as to which of your better guns you'll use the most. If you go the Twin Handgun route, you'll probably have 2 in your pallette. They are utilitarian guns, but they drain quickly as a single equip. I tend to go between the two, and they generally last a lot longer that way.

Fortunately, as you get further up in levels, and get better guns and wands; as expected, your out-of-pocket costs for a level go down with the same number of people, your character level. You also will be having higher effect percentages and accuracy. Though you'll periodically see *lucky* monsters that somehow beat your SE percentage odds, you'll be seeing your SEs kick in faster and more often than before.

You'll end up conserving a bit more, allowing the rest of the people to hit for constant damage, as you Status effect, move onto the next monster, conserving a lot of PP usage. With big monsters, your SEs do the *real* damage, while your bullets do some damage but mainly for stuff like infection/burn. So in a bit, you'll be like the anti-medic. Administering SEs so that your constant attack on it is being handled for you, while you badger another monster to get harmed by SEs.

Infection might be a good start, mainly since it combines with more status effects, especially if your friends like to use Freeze bullets and techs. I tend to find a lot more of that being used than not. Outside of a monster being on fire, there's usually always room for Infection.

One of the best breaks for a Guntecher, is those times in which you Status Effect (especially burn or infection) all monsters, rather quickly. That means you are free to travel around, and just play target practice with the monsters, knocking off even more HP off them. You'll do this casually, while you watch everybody's position, status, and health. That amount of freedom means you can be ready to react and be that *spare* healer, buffer, etc, while the monsters are still suffering from your SE and everybody else's attacks and techs. The trick is, don't go overzealous with the bullets. Lobbing a little extra damage is nice, but try to balance between your weapons so you aren't running out so quick. (yep. It's Load-balancing of a whole different meaning.) Just remember, SEs combined with Melee weapons slicing, combined with attack techs from Forces equals insane death to the monster. You'll save loads of meseta, and moments of empty resources, by not attempting to go Rambo.

You can also do this in reverse, if you've become the main Debuffer. That is, you start with a nice guarranteed debuff on the group (making things easier for everybody), and then you're free to step back a bit and attempt to status effect everything, just keeping yourself cognizant of when you might have to emergency heal, or whatever.

However, it takes a little while to get there. In the beginning, you'll feel a little underpowered due to the costs of doing the damage you'd like to do. More bullets to land an SE, and generally weaker SE effects. It all adds up to make it a bit of a struggle at first. Plus, weaker weapons will require more PP usage to kill monsters. Using traps is nice, but unless you have a lot of money on you, those are better options in your later game. Be selective. Just don't spread yourself too thin.

One thing people often don't pay attention to is Elemental + Accurracy percentages for guns. For general non-armored pests (which you do see a lot of), Twin guns deliver statuses faster than just about anything. They also conserve bullets better against a group than the Bow. Bow's are your big boy killers. Eventually, you'll gain a rhythm of various different tools you'll like to use on each major "defense-level-differing" group of monsters. This helps spread your PP usage between the arsenal, and you'll last longer in the fight, as well.

Take note these are basically a load of observations I have, from playing the class. They serve as stuff to expect. You can use this information to make your weapon selection (from the list of Guntecher ones) to formulate what kind of GT playstyle you want to work with, or simply expand on your ideas.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-02-15 12:03 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

Human females make excellent Wartechers. The animations for melee are slighty different than the mens, and in some cases (coff - single dagger - coff) better.

[GreenArcher]

It's easiest to play as a debuffer, because guntechers own with their offhand. You've got S handguns, crossbows, machineguns, and A cards. This stuff is your bread and butter of gunteching. You've got bows/rifles to stick big guys with SE4, but other than that you're wand/offhand is what guntechers are all about. You have some few other choices, such as Dual Handguns, Shotguns, and Laser Cannons.

What's great about playing a guntecher is there so much freedom.
You can play as a Force, Buff/Debuff/heal and throw in some offhand SEs.
You could play as a Ranger, and constantly pound the enemy with Shotguns and Bows/Rifles for pure damage.
You could play as an SE man, and spray SE with a crossbow and traps.

[pso123hrf]

Go guntecher...since you have the Female / Human part, having a gun in 1 hand and a wand in the other would make a good SE master.

If you like to melee, I say don't pick WT because they only get like 2 S rank weapons.

>:3