Sonic Team, Good Job! (net cash cup update)

[Inazuma]

for those who dont know the backstory:

the net cash cup ultimate attack event came to psu jp ver but ST totally messed up. they removed most of the missions in the game and gave us 5 very horrible event missions. the only decent mission available was the labs, and thats where nearly everyone was stuck at for an entire week.

well, after a week of seeing this and recieving many complaints, Sonic Team did the right thing and gave us nearly all the good missions back. very well done ST! i wanna give a big thanks to them for fixing psu and making the players happy again.

btw, the event missions are still there for those who still wish to do em. but by giving us back most of the old good missions, we have more options open to us for missions to do.

[Retehi]

http://apocalypse-tribe.com/rdfox/face.jpg

[NPCMook]

Wheres the "I don't care button"?

I personally would love to have the ultimate attack come to the NA/EU servers, even if they do suck

Why? Well because, they give me a chance to get some random goofy S rank weapon that I may enjoy using while I'm helping a friend level or when we are just goofing off and tearing through a low level map to get to our real goal point and missions


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NPCMook on 2007-03-01 21:12 ]</font>

[Niered]

Grats, its whiners like you that get cool events ruined so you can go "lvl ure jawbz lol".

Seriously I wish ST hadnt, and just told you all to suck it up and play. From what Ive heard and seen, their amazingly fun, and the reason for doing them ties in so damn well to the story it gives me goosebumps.

So go play RO while your pouting please.

[Lyrise]

On 2007-03-01 21:10, NPCMook wrote:
Wheres the "I don't care button"?

I personally would love to have the ultimate attack come to the NA/EU servers, even if they do suck

Why? Well because, they give me a chance to get some random goofy S rank weapon that I may enjoy using while I'm helping a friend level or when we are just goofing off and tearing through a low level map to get to our real goal point and missions




Agreed. and I'm on the JP servers too. Sadly, its become all about the money now. The only reason why everyone's going back there isn't because ST made a poorly planned event. It's because other missions have better short term rewards/boards. Next week, they release 2 more missions to the event. I can almost guarantee you if they pay better (yeah right) everyone will swarm the place.

Why I keep playing the event? I want to help the community. I also like the pace of the missions, and I don't have to worry about dying since there's no death count.

I'm beginning to wish that the 1 week of lv3 luck reward apply to say, the top 500 people rather than for everyone since they're the ones doing all the work anyway.

Edit: Fire Valley B on Moatoob is arguably the best place to level PAs, jsut too many enemies in there, 3x lv80 + 1 PM, we can get the S grade, but we can never seem to kill everything off in there...

Edit #2: While it takes 131 kills to get S, we're at 191 and still killing,...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2007-03-01 21:54 ]</font>

[Kamica]

Sonic Team messed up alright...messed up on the purpose of the game if they cannot get people to stop grinding the missions with the best payout for one whole week.

May I ask you one question? What is so much more important about S2 Labs that you cannot wait to play that when the event is over? What goal or equip will not be able to gotten by waiting? Nothing. S2 Labs will not end, netcash cup will. Instead, by actually participating in the event, you can have goals that are not only personal but goals as a community whole. More>Less

As for the missions being bad? Sonic Team could make the "perfect" mission that is more fun in every way than any other mission and if it gave no reward, you would still call the mission sucky. Do not try to argue otherwise. I know the way you work.

[Ryo_Hayasa]

I really don't mean to continue the negetivity of this thread, so excuse me. However:

Now with the old misisons back up, won't the motivation to complete the event mission by the entire JP community be stunned? well, it will. since everyone won't be forced to do these missions. Meh, we'll see. I assume now that parum will never be purified.

[VanHalen]

And now the planet Parum lays in ruin because the Guardians wanted Mission Points instead.

[Ryo_Hayasa]

On 2007-03-01 22:33, VanHalen wrote:
And now the planet Parum lays in ruin because the Guardians wanted Mission Points instead.



It's cool, the CASTs of that planets were kinda jerks anyway.

What? Is it really wrong to wish death to an entire planet due to their supiority(sp.) complex?

[A2K]

Well, considering CASTs are a significant minority (although they do rule it) and the planet is actually populated mostly by billions and billions of humans...

[Lyrise]

On 2007-03-01 22:33, VanHalen wrote:
And now the planet Parum lays in ruin because the Guardians wanted Mission Points instead.



And yet, the sad part is, even Moatoob's rewards are pretty decent, even in terms of Mission points (90 for S on A, 54 for A).

[Inazuma]

amazing how you guys can complain about having more options open to you. if you still wanna do the event missions, your free to do em. the more content the game has, the better rite? if less content was better, why move on to psu in the first place? the original pso only had 4 levels.

ppl want meseta in a game based around meseta? how shocking. if sega designed the event better, ppl would want to participate more. they did a good job w/ these events in pso and they were extremely popular there. they just didnt design the event as well this time.

everyone has their own style and goals. someone may wanna purify seeds to help get the % to 100, and someone else may wanna earn meseta to buy an item. and rite now, its possible to do both of those. everyone wins.

[Lyrise]

On 2007-03-01 23:16, Inazuma wrote:

ppl want meseta in a game based around meseta? how shocking. if sega designed the event better, ppl would want to participate more. they did a good job w/ these events in pso and they were extremely popular there. they just didnt design the event as well this time.



I can agree with some of your points, but my question to you: since good design is subjective, how would you have designed this event?

edit: using PSO is a bad example. Everything is so easy to accomplish in PSO, all Sega could do is provide extravagant things for the player, because it was the only thing they did NOT have.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2007-03-01 23:27 ]</font>

[VanHalen]

Girl: Mommy when are the Guardians gonna put out the fires?
Mother: I don't know the president said he was sending them out.
Guardians: *not giving a crap about the fire missions Holtes City burns to the ground 50 billion meseta in damage*

The thing is weren't the missions taken out for storyline purposes? I wouldn't mind that even if I was running low on cash nothing beats getting into character in things.

[Lyrise]

It was, but ST caved because a good number of people complained (not the majority, mind you).

[PJ]

On 2007-03-01 23:16, Inazuma wrote:
amazing how you guys can complain about having more options open to you.

Ironic, since you only do a select few, "Good missions," as far as rewards go. Efficiency robot?


if you still wanna do the event missions, your free to do em. the more content the game has, the better rite? if less content was better, why move on to psu in the first place?

They reduced the missions so that the community could help eachother out to get these rewards. But I guess the Japanese servers aren't full of all that community togetherness that I had gathered from the cup in BB.


ppl want meseta in a game based around meseta? how shocking. if sega designed the event better, ppl would want to participate more.

PJ translates: Gives us higher satisfaction NAO instead of reward later.


they did a good job w/ these events in pso and they were extremely popular there. they just didnt design the event as well this time.

PJ translates 2: They weren't very fun really, but they gave us a lot of EXP. So it was popular.


everyone has their own style and goals. someone may wanna purify seeds to help get the % to 100, and someone else may wanna earn meseta to buy an item. and rite now, its possible to do both of those. everyone wins.

So, instead of helping out your community get these prizes, it's better to keep doing what you've been doing for months, and what you'll be doing for months onwards. Bravo.

[Inazuma]

On 2007-03-01 23:25, Lyrise wrote:
I can agree with some of your points, but my question to you: since good design is subjective, how would you have designed this event?

edit: using PSO is a bad example. Everything is so easy to accomplish in PSO, all Sega could do is provide extravagant things for the player, because it was the only thing they did NOT have.


you say using pso is a bad example, yet it worked so well there and the players enjoyed it. sounds like a good example to me.

so first off, id leave all existing content there.
the ppl who want to do the normal missions should be able to. the event missions would be filled w/ monsters and have good rewards. they should be better than normal missions so ppl wanna do em. makes sense rite?

but besides just being better missions in general, we need some event related fun. like good rewards for the milestones such as improved char, type, photon art exp, etc. also id bring back the individual pts and prizes like pso did. that was great for motivating ppl even more to do the event. what about if the only way to recieve the garment aura or real hand gun was to get one of the individual milestones? that would be another great reason to keep playing the event. even for someone who didnt want to keep the item to use, they could surely make a lot selling it, b/c of its rarity.

the motoob event mission is decent but that time limit sux. how bout the event missions have no time limits but it still keeps track of your clear time. the players w/ the best clear times can get a prize from the event, just like pso did. this way, those who like time limits and those who dont, can both be happy.

[Alisha]

the rivalry surrounding this event is starting to sound more like hardcore vs casual. if you only play a few hours a day i'm sure this isnt a problem for you. but if your the type that jumps on when they get home from work then stays on till they go to bed then i could see this event being a serious problem. ESPECIALLY since they are all fire and probally have that god awful fire seed music thats in the same league as the caves music. really theres no reason to care about the community. ffxi had a reason psu does not.

[Lyrise]

On 2007-03-02 00:08, Alisha wrote:
the rivalry surrounding this event is starting to sound more like hardcore vs casual. if you only play a few hours a day i'm sure this isnt a problem for you. but if your the type that jumps on when they get home from work then stays on till they go to bed then i could see this event being a serious problem. ESPECIALLY since they are all fire and probally have that god awful fire seed music thats in the same league as the caves music. really theres no reason to care about the community. ffxi had a reason psu does not.



It's not really about hardcore vs. casual since both sides seem to benefit from this one. Each planet has a different playstyle with regards to the event, so its not all purification. Most of the cool items you can get in this event, come from trading in banphotons, which are plenty in the event missions (in 2 hours of casual play I picked up 43). Furthermore, with no death count, means people can actually pick a place, like Moatoob which is a killfest, and gain some decent experience and mission points there, all while bringing in the money while having fun. Additionally, in the end when the event is all said and done the biggest rewards which would be the discounts form clothing, and the x days of level 3 luck apply to everyone, be they casual or hardcore player. I don't think there's an issue with the type of player this event appeals to, since it seems it could be enjoyed by all.

Midori> People in PSO can enjoy those events because PSU has some things PSO didn't have. An actual economy for one, and challenge is the other. Here, money becomes a focus to do the things players want, and levels, in conjuction with the level caps ST sets up.

Where I think is the flaw, is that people believe that they must have some kind of robot-like efficiency as far as progress goes, and as a result, people start to lose sight of having fun. In PSO, everything was dirt easy; you didn't need to get to level 200, by 150, you could pretty much lay waste to everything regardless of class, regardless of equipment.

That said, the only reason why people "enjoyed" the events, is because it was the only thing they could do, without going back to the pointless routine of gaining levels that didn't even matter. That said, ANY event ST puts up could be considered fun, considering the alternatives (that and the new items you can have). I think you can begin to recall the reasons why lots of Japanese players called PSOBB an "expensive chat room".

An important point that Alisha also brought up is hardcore vs. casual. This event definitely has both sides in mind, and that's why I also like it. Everyone has a chance to pick up some cool stuff, and casual players who'd like to catch up can, with new and EASIER ways of earning PA fragments. Additionally, with no deathcount to worry about, casual players get a chance to fearlessly rush into a battle with stuff up to level 95, which also challenges the hardcore players; this also allows both types of players to play together too.

Personally, I think ST is cought in an unfair double standard as far as this event goes. If they designed it like PSO, people start complaing about it being too much like PSO. If it's radically different, like the Ultimate Attack we have right now, people start complaining that it needs to be more like PSO. Wonder what's going to happen when the 2 remaining missions are released. Depending on the conditions of those 2 missions, I could be right, or I could be horribly wrong.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2007-03-02 01:20 ]</font>

[Lumaar]

Its a good thing to have more missions to play. I'll support that.

Sonic Team did a good job on bringing back some of the missions but that was because they made a HUGE mistake on taking them out the first place.

Its really bad losing all of those missions, especially if its practically all the ones people like. Ultimate Attack should just be an addition to the game instead. I wouldn't care so much if its just a special event that players can choose to participate and have fun, but Forcing someone to play and not make progress in their character is sometimes not fun(for me at least).

I would do whatever has the highest rewards. I hope that they will have Ultimate Attack missions with high reward.

This game was mainly about playing the mission with the highest reward in the beginning anyways. Every newly added mission would climb higher in rewards, especially from (A-S), (S-S2), etc. Some people would go for the better missions that give better rewards, I definetly would. But now that this event came, I'd probably do the one with the better reward.

The Net Cash Cup update yesterday was really compromising. We got some of the old missions back as well as the Ultimate Attack event stages.

Making progress is fun but if I was a max level character with exellent equipment that I will never need to change, I would do the Net Cash event if I can not make much progress on my characters.

[Rashiid]

JP complaining? now THATS sad.

[Magician]

At least ST heard the cries and did something.

They could've easily said, "tough, deal with it".

[Lyrise]

On 2007-03-02 04:26, Rashiid wrote:
JP complaining? now THATS sad.



No, YOU are the one that's just sad, if you think everything over oon the JP servers must be peaches and cream.

Where were you during PA rebalance, the breaking of the GH450s, and the first 2 months of PSUJP?

But getting back on topic before I derail this completely, personally, I find it a bit disheartening when a good number of people will profit from the event despite not having played even the smallest part (doing 3 runs don't count). Clearly, I would feel a lot better if ST would just strike out the week of level 3 luck, the clothes discounts and the frypan. Since those are community related goals, there's no way that the JP community as a whole deserve them.

Of course, that's just me (those that know me know I'm not normally like this, but just lemme get this out of my system will ya?), and this is after week #1. Who knows, maybe things will change for these last 3 weeks.

[Inazuma]

lyrise, by all means continue to do the event missions and enjoy em. no one is forcing you to NOT do em, so keep playing psu how you want and have fun.

stop getting so upset b/c others care about becoming stronger and making progress. a lot of ppl care about items, money, etc. they get a lot of enjoyment from improving their chars. let them have their fun too.

you say you care about the community but is that really the case? look at all the ppl who chose to play labs and lake. thats a huge amount of ppl. if you really cared about everyone, youd want them to have fun w/ psu too.

[Sychosis]

Forcing somebody into participating in an event they don't want to be a part of is just wrong IMO.

[Kamica]

On 2007-03-01 23:16, Inazuma wrote:
everyone has their own style and goals. someone may wanna purify seeds to help get the % to 100, and someone else may wanna earn meseta to buy an item. and rite now, its possible to do both of those. everyone wins.


Saving up meseta to buy something is reasonable. Heck, if you can NAME some things then I won't consider you a n idiot for thinking the way you do. I have done endless grindng myself before to try to get a really good deal (mostly high % elemental armor for a low cost) from a player shop that still wouldn't be there for long if I waited. THAT is reasonable grinding. However, if you wan't meseta to spend on something that will still be there after the event is over or you are saving up for something in the future, your visions of "fun" are screwed.

[Inazuma]

On 2007-03-02 10:30, Kamica wrote:
Saving up meseta to buy something is reasonable. Heck, if you can NAME some things then I won't consider you a n idiot for thinking the way you do. I have done endless grindng myself before to try to get a really good deal (mostly high % elemental armor for a low cost) from a player shop that still wouldn't be there for long if I waited. THAT is reasonable grinding. However, if you wan't meseta to spend on something that will still be there after the event is over or you are saving up for something in the future, your visions of "fun" are screwed.


preparing in advance is for idiots and its not fun? thanks, i was doing things backwards all this time and didnt realize it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Inazuma on 2007-03-02 10:55 ]</font>

[Lyrise]

On 2007-03-02 09:59, Inazuma wrote:
lyrise, by all means continue to do the event missions and enjoy em. no one is forcing you to NOT do em, so keep playing psu how you want and have fun.

stop getting so upset b/c others care about becoming stronger and making progress. a lot of ppl care about items, money, etc. they get a lot of enjoyment from improving their chars. let them have their fun too.

you say you care about the community but is that really the case? look at all the ppl who chose to play labs and lake. thats a huge amount of ppl. if you really cared about everyone, youd want them to have fun w/ psu too.



You yourself know I don't care how people play, or what they choose to do. Of course I'm all for wanting all the players to have fun. I guess I need to explain myself a little bit more here...

Maybe you're on at the wrong times to see this, but lately, the general attitude here is that while there are people that don't feel like playing the event missions, they all talk as if ST owes them all the rewards. I mean, here is one side of the border, working off the conditions ST set for the community prizes, then there's the other side who just play labs and lakeside all day, then have the nerve to say something like "I hope we get the week of level 3 luck and 50% clothing discounts" without doing a single thing to help the situation. I had to hear this same ideal spouted off from 6 different random lakeside parties yesterday when I brought up the subject of UA, all while I was in the midst of having a bad day. *6* completely different parties. I can't help but assume that 90% of the people in the lakeside area share the same sentiment. This is the kind of attitude that's pissing me off, and I apologize if I didn't explain that sooner.

It's basically the same feeling that dominated both the US and JP servers when the hacked weapons were made known. Theoretical past example (before ST fixed the mess): You work your butt off for a psycho wand, and this other guy can just get one in the blink of an eye. This is the kind of feeling I'm talking about. Is it fair? No. Can I force people to do anything about it? No. Will I berate them for it because they're having fun? No, since it's not quite affecting anyone's gameplay experience besides a drop in morale. Will I feel better ranting about this? Sure will.

[Inazuma]

maybe someone can correct me on this, but from my understanding of the latest update post on the official site, in order to recieve the frypan, you need to clear all 7 event missions at least once. this is what you wanted rite lyrise? this is good, cuz now im considering doing some event missions.

[Kamica]

On 2007-03-02 10:34, Inazuma wrote:

On 2007-03-02 10:30, Kamica wrote:
Saving up meseta to buy something is reasonable. Heck, if you can NAME some things then I won't consider you a n idiot for thinking the way you do. I have done endless grindng myself before to try to get a really good deal (mostly high % elemental armor for a low cost) from a player shop that still wouldn't be there for long if I waited. THAT is reasonable grinding. However, if you wan't meseta to spend on something that will still be there after the event is over or you are saving up for something in the future, your visions of "fun" are screwed.


preparing in advance is for idiots and its not fun? thanks, i was doing this backwards all this time and didnt realize it.



I am glad that you openly admit that you only care about the grinding part of the game and nothing else.
This makes any conversation much easier to work with.
It proves my point that you will continue to grind past any amount of "progress" that you make. This also proves that your visions are screwed past the point of change. I feel that the more that a person plays one game exlusively, the more easily a person can start to lose track of what is fun.

Playing a game that you beat and completed 100% can be fun. Playing that same game after this point is not making progress, no matter how much you sugarcoat
it. Im not saying that you can ever truly complete PSU, but there is still a point in which prgress is invented for personal enjoyment.

With that said, continue to do what you enjoy doing. I will not force you to change the way you play. The same thing happens to many people who experience a game that has an economy. Your opinions will likely never change sadly.