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View Full Version : PvP, casts and newman won't dominate



jayster
Mar 3, 2007, 01:02 PM
I'v seen fortetechers and fortegunners run through levels using nothing but killer shot and megid and not 1hit ko a single enemy the whole mission. So the odds of being 1 hit ko'd, especially on the first shot in a PvP will probably be very unprobable. Hopefully PvP if it ever comes out will not be dominated by a single race, or photon art I should say.

Eliash
Mar 3, 2007, 01:04 PM
It all depends on how PvP is implemented (if it is). If rangers can hit for 500 + freeze with rifles, then it would be hard to kill them. We don't know if a PvP system is actually being planned yet, unless I'm wrong, so it is possible to say that <Instert race/class> will be the best. The truth of these statements rely mostly on speculation.

_Deliverance_
Mar 3, 2007, 01:05 PM
PVP never interested me in ffxi, but I think it would be pretty damn awesome in psu.

Lyrise
Mar 3, 2007, 01:08 PM
You just got this update. I highly doubt anyone managed to get killer shot or megid to level 21 in a little over a day. After 21, they are at their most dangerous, with Killer shot having incapacitation Lv4 and Megid with Incapacitate lv3. That's when you should be afraid if PVP ever comes to light.

jayster
Mar 3, 2007, 01:08 PM
On 2007-03-03 10:04, Eliash wrote:
It all depends on how PvP is implemented (if it is). If rangers can hit for 500 + freeze with rifles, then it would be hard to kill them. We don't know if a PvP system is actually being planned yet, unless I'm wrong, so it is possible to say that <Instert race/class> will be the best. The truth of these statements rely mostly on speculation.



true but rangers also shoot at monsters without armor, unit boosters and a brain to dodge stuff.

Ethan-Waber
Mar 3, 2007, 01:17 PM
Yes they will...

Casts = Rifle + freeze shot or any other shot for that matter = pwn you from long distance.
Newmans/forces = Pwn your ass with diga... 1k+ dammage FTW?

Tsavo
Mar 3, 2007, 01:28 PM
On 2007-03-03 10:17, Ethan-Waber wrote:
Newmans/forces = Pwn your ass with diga... 1k+ dammage FTW?


Cause Diga flies at like, lightspeed.

While I like the idea of PvP I don't know if ST would be able to implemtent it correctly. I remember trying to combo someone in PSO on GC and they fell down after one hit. Same thing if I shot them. And being a cast once I was out of mates I got obliterated. Hopefully they'll make an effort to balance things this time around(should PvP happen at all).

Fure_Rakune
Mar 3, 2007, 01:33 PM
If pvp gets implemented in the expansion, I think they should also throw in some evasive moves like a roll or something for a quick dodge or a pa that can act as a reflect/shield.

RadiantLegend
Mar 3, 2007, 01:36 PM
Thats were armors comes in.

Tahldon
Mar 3, 2007, 01:37 PM
On 2007-03-03 10:17, Ethan-Waber wrote:

Casts = Rifle + freeze shot or any other shot for that matter = pwn you from long distance.
Newmans/forces = Pwn your ass with diga... 1k+ dammage FTW?



Why don't I like the way this is worded?

Man.. I can see it now. E-Peen contests out of this world.

*Thumbs down*

Inazuma
Mar 3, 2007, 01:38 PM
even the weakest monsters have around 75 stamina. meanwhile, most players have around 10-15. thats why we die a lot easier from megido.

Saigan
Mar 3, 2007, 01:53 PM
I think the PvP would have to use a slightly tweaked engine, and probably wouldn't work well on a populated server. Remember people dodging zonde on GCN?

natewifi
Mar 3, 2007, 02:13 PM
Wait a second, I remember reading somewhere that there is going to be P v P (I could be wrong).

Palefire
Mar 4, 2007, 02:54 AM
On 2007-03-03 10:05, _Deliverance_ wrote:
PVP never interested me in ffxi, but I think it would be pretty damn awesome in psu.



PvP never interested me, period. Since there are a lot of players like me who just don't give a fiddler's fart about it, I imagine that if it's ever implemented, it'll be like it is in CoH, where there are special arenas designated as PvP arenas. That way, the PvP fanatics can whale on each other to their little hearts' content and not bother those of us more interested in everything else.

JaiBlue
Mar 4, 2007, 03:09 AM
I really hate it when people try to talk down pvp like it only appeals to bunch of runny nosed idiots. Seriously if anyone dosen't like the idea of pvp then simply leave it at that and quit trying to act like your opinions of time better spent makes you a better person than that of anyone who supports pvp.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JaiBlue on 2007-03-04 00:10 ]</font>

-Ryuki-
Mar 4, 2007, 03:14 AM
In that case.. 50% weapons would pwn everyone.
Anyone with grinded weapons, would win.
Anyone who looks as awesome as me while throwing YoYo's, might lose.

=X Simply put, the PvPing would be balanced enough. Techs do not home
(not to my knowledge at least) and the guns are hard to aim unless you're
strafe-shooting with dualies or something. If anything, Hunters have it
easier. The only exception to what I just said, are GiTechs. That would be
the HU killer, right there. Rangers would have their traps.
...Damnit, the HU class is weaker >.<

Palefire
Mar 4, 2007, 03:17 AM
On 2007-03-04 00:09, JaiBlue wrote:
I really hate it when people try to talk down pvp like it only appeals to bunch of runny nosed idiots. Seriously if anyone dosen't like the idea of pvp then simply leave it at that and quit trying to act like your opinions of time better spent makes you a better person than that of anyone who supports pvp.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JaiBlue on 2007-03-04 00:10 ]</font>


I wouldn't if a lot of PvPers would accept that a lot of us don't like PvP and want nothing to do with it. I don't mind PvP being in the game, but I DO get annoyed at those PvPers who 1) insist that a game is worthless if it doesn't have PvP, and 2) want to force PvP on players who may not want it. Which is why I'm fine with PvP arenas: I won't ever go in one, and PvPers can have a place to PvP. Works out for everyone.

Sgt_Shligger
Mar 4, 2007, 03:19 AM
Hu's have a couple advantages.

For one, they have health. Health is a nice defense.

For two, they have full leveled PA's. The ultimate double saber PA (Tornado Dance?) covers a lot of ground in a short time period. The first knuckle PA has good range if you time it right and other weapons could be implemented for good use, like spears (Ultimate Spear PA XD).

Finally, Hunters pump out damage. Once a Hunter is in range, it's pretty much over for the force or ranger.

SAtaarcoeny
Mar 4, 2007, 03:32 AM
i am going to love pvp because thers so many forces that talk down to me or think they r better so i will live for it ..... and i always c retarded people talking bad about other races ... i think pvp will settle alot of the sht talkers

SAtaarcoeny
Mar 4, 2007, 03:34 AM
On 2007-03-04 00:14, RyukiZero wrote:
In that case.. 50% weapons would pwn everyone.
Anyone with grinded weapons, would win.
Anyone who looks as awesome as me while throwing YoYo's, might lose.

=X Simply put, the PvPing would be balanced enough. Techs do not home
(not to my knowledge at least) and the guns are hard to aim unless you're
strafe-shooting with dualies or something. If anything, Hunters have it
easier. The only exception to what I just said, are GiTechs. That would be
the HU killer, right there. Rangers would have their traps.
...Damnit, the HU class is weaker >.<

all the new nos techs home in on things they also cause knowk down

Syl
Mar 4, 2007, 03:44 AM
On 2007-03-04 00:32, SAtaarcoeny wrote:
i think pvp will settle alot of the sht talkers



Well it'll be like this too:


1: The sky is blue
2: lol ur a nub

(insert flaming)

2: FAck you, i'll keel j00 in PvP

(player 1 loses)

2:hahaha you nub!!!


To make my point, people will use PvP to prove a point, even if they're wrong. People swear that if you win at something it means you're right...

Shiro_Ryuu
Mar 4, 2007, 09:00 AM
what the hell? CASTs and Newmans? Its not like ALL of them will be Fortegunners and Fortetechers.

pso123hrf
Mar 4, 2007, 09:26 AM
I've seen a level 21+ megid, nosmegid, giresta (o_0), killer shot, splendor crush, yo-yo dagger thingy, and the knucklez...Maylee on the mech ownz

;_;

Jasam
Mar 4, 2007, 09:49 AM
Rangers + frezze/Shock/silence will mean instant death for any other class the moment it activates (and with player STA being about 15 compared to the weak enermys 35+)
Forces + Megid/Diga/Nodiga/Dibarta will give almost instant kill abilitys on hit, + resta = most amount of heals if up aganst a HU...

Basicly, all hunters will die, it will just be a 1-2 hit contest between rangers and Forces....

They would have to remake the game system for PvP to work... its not going to happon, and to be quite frank, you shouldn't be wanting it too, this game was NOT designed for PVP, so if it is realeased, it will be very very poor.

Rashiid
Mar 4, 2007, 11:15 AM
there cant be PvP, not anytime soon atleast, because its way too unbalenced.

its not even in the expansion, which isnt coming out for like a year lol

IHeartRice
Mar 4, 2007, 12:36 PM
Well they can also have the Rule matches implemented like in PSO. Like where evryone starts at Lv 1 and when u die you level 5 times and so on until you run out of lives. Plus, most of these rule matches had small rooms so Rangers pretty much sucked in most of the matches.

Forgot to say that if people do wear Non-elemental armors 50% weps won't matter I think.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: IHeartRice on 2007-03-04 09:37 ]</font>

VanHalen
Mar 4, 2007, 01:05 PM
On 2007-03-04 06:00, Shiroryuu wrote:
what the hell? CASTs and Newmans? Its not like ALL of them will be Fortegunners and Fortetechers.



I think he means newman fortefighters like me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif .

Sgt_Shligger
Mar 4, 2007, 01:35 PM
No one is thinking here >_>;

So what if PvP comes out? Does that somehow hurt the community as a whole? Someone challenges you to a duel to prove a point. . . Well guess what, you don't have to accept and it's not like the entire community will give credibility to the guy who wins the most duels.

Rangers would NOT be perfect in PvP. . . Get a small stage, a stage with cover, Hell, get MORE PEOPLE. That rifle isn't perfect. . . You can get into range a LOT of ways.

VanHalen
Mar 4, 2007, 01:40 PM
On 2007-03-04 10:35, Sgt_Shliggy wrote:
No one is thinking here >_>;

So what if PvP comes out? Does that somehow hurt the community as a whole? Someone challenges you to a duel to prove a point. . . Well guess what, you don't have to accept and it's not like the entire community will give credibility to the guy who wins the most duels.

Rangers would NOT be perfect in PvP. . . Get a small stage, a stage with cover, Hell, get MORE PEOPLE. That rifle isn't perfect. . . You can get into range a LOT of ways.



Thank you! I don't see how hunters can't move around a little to get in striking range. Just one to one area of cover(if there is), keep running forward to the next area, and so on and if the ranger runs shoot him in the back with a handgun.

Rashiid
Mar 4, 2007, 01:54 PM
yay im getting close and! boom, Lv 30 shotgun, 1 of those 5 bullets freeze me, ranger runs back, and starts pounding me w/ rifle.

back to the drawing board.....

jizaboz
Mar 4, 2007, 01:56 PM
I don't care how broken it would be at first if Player Vs Player mode was added. I just want it...

VanHalen
Mar 4, 2007, 01:58 PM
Happens in halo *get to close friend pulls out a shotgun* "damnit!" well that can happen also Rashiid and also it can happen like this

yay im getting close and! boom, Lv 30 shotgun, 1 of those 5 bullets........doesn't freeze, ranger runs back
Hunter: "Oh no you don't!" *pounds him with a saber and uses gravity strike*



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2007-03-04 10:58 ]</font>

Rashiid
Mar 4, 2007, 02:03 PM
ah! but if it doesnt freeze, then it still has the flinch effect, as all shotguns do.

*erases Vans almost good idea from chalkboard*

anyone else find a way to get around rangers?

VanHalen
Mar 4, 2007, 02:10 PM
Well the flinch doesn't last too long.......well then again lag comes in sometimes. wait a second, I know who will win PvP! Lag! Lag pwns all j00 nubs!

jayster
Mar 4, 2007, 02:11 PM
On 2007-03-04 11:03, Rashiid wrote:
ah! but if it doesnt freeze, then it still has the flinch effect, as all shotguns do.

*erases Vans almost good idea from chalkboard*

anyone else find a way to get around rangers?



Use ur brain and run zigzaged since rangers don't have homing bullets...

retsel
Mar 4, 2007, 02:12 PM
I never played the old pso PVP, but i would hope they would make something team based.

jayster
Mar 4, 2007, 02:15 PM
On 2007-03-04 11:12, retsel wrote:
I never played the old pso PVP, but i would hope they would make something team based.



Haha yes, I'd have a wall of people run infront of me to take the blows, then I'd take out the other team with my dus robbos.

retsel
Mar 4, 2007, 02:17 PM
PERFICT!!!

Rashiid
Mar 4, 2007, 02:25 PM
On 2007-03-04 11:11, jayster wrote:

On 2007-03-04 11:03, Rashiid wrote:
ah! but if it doesnt freeze, then it still has the flinch effect, as all shotguns do.

*erases Vans almost good idea from chalkboard*

anyone else find a way to get around rangers?



Use ur brain and run zigzaged since rangers don't have homing bullets...


hav u seen a 5-shot shotgun?

yeah good luck zig-zagin that!

Sgt_Shligger
Mar 4, 2007, 02:42 PM
I was just going to say something like that, Jayster.

What if a beast or cast runs in and BLOCKS a fellow hunter? Even better, what if the two fortefighters run in OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS? I've seen the shotgun spread and it sure as Hell ain't enough to shoot two targets on each side. Also, rangers aren't as mobile with shotguns.

What if there's a Fighgunner? He can shoot back. No SE 4 but he can hurt you and dodge. Fortefighter is going to have more trouble but he's got solid HP and DFP. Level 4 burning? They can fight back while on fire. Enducing a leevl 4 Burning doesn't gaurentee death, nor does virus.

Rashiid
Mar 4, 2007, 04:38 PM
On 2007-03-04 11:42, Sgt_Shliggy wrote:
I was just going to say something like that, Jayster.

What if a beast or cast runs in and BLOCKS a fellow hunter? Even better, what if the two fortefighters run in OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS? I've seen the shotgun spread and it sure as Hell ain't enough to shoot two targets on each side. Also, rangers aren't as mobile with shotguns.

What if there's a Fighgunner? He can shoot back. No SE 4 but he can hurt you and dodge. Fortefighter is going to have more trouble but he's got solid HP and DFP. Level 4 burning? They can fight back while on fire. Enducing a leevl 4 Burning doesn't gaurentee death, nor does virus.



^ see? see all that? WAYY TO UNBALENCED! lol

VanHalen
Mar 4, 2007, 04:41 PM
The lag class is unbalanced

Shiro_Ryuu
Mar 4, 2007, 05:08 PM
polties and lapuchas will own PVP.

jayster
Mar 4, 2007, 05:58 PM
On 2007-03-04 11:42, Sgt_Shliggy wrote:
I was just going to say something like that, Jayster.

What if a beast or cast runs in and BLOCKS a fellow hunter? Even better, what if the two fortefighters run in OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS? I've seen the shotgun spread and it sure as Hell ain't enough to shoot two targets on each side. Also, rangers aren't as mobile with shotguns.

What if there's a Fighgunner? He can shoot back. No SE 4 but he can hurt you and dodge. Fortefighter is going to have more trouble but he's got solid HP and DFP. Level 4 burning? They can fight back while on fire. Enducing a leevl 4 Burning doesn't gaurentee death, nor does virus.



lol I just want to get inbetween a group of players and unload my dus robbos on them. Or my favored twin dagger pa(the original one.. aka the best one)

KaiNova7
Mar 4, 2007, 06:52 PM
Heh. Kinda funny when everyone says PSO was unbalanced in battle mode.
I'll admit,fighting high lving Force/techers(as an Hucaseal) was a bit too hard.
But anyone who was a true battler,(more than 50 battles in F1)knew there was always a counter for everything.
If not all,most stats played key roles in pvp. Such as high evp stats blocked low accuracy.
Example:Hucast has the most atp but the lowest evp of hunters.
Hucaseals has one of the highest evp stats in game, so they blocked alot of Hucast atacks.

There are alot of things like this that people did't know about.
If many did, it would have made for more interested battles.
So in conclusion, PSO was balanced enough to have fair battles,so will PSU.

Pure-chan
Mar 4, 2007, 06:59 PM
Hum... all this panic over frozen shot and killer shot makes me wonder why has no one has mentioned the fact that players were only allowed to use the weapons in their inventory in Rule 1 battles.

The bulk of battle modes in PSO set pvp'ers to the same default level, then forced them to find equipment and techniques from the boxes on the map.

For the record, rangers weren't the problem in Rule 1 PSO battles. The problem was noob HUcasts juggling you to death with an S rank Zalure pistol and a hacked 300% hit mechgun. You would end up stun locked until you died, since mechs don't carry enough of a punch to knock you down in Ult. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2007-03-04 16:10 ]</font>

WallyJustice
Mar 4, 2007, 07:15 PM
that satar guy is so annoying to play with all he does is talk crap about how good he is. he does not impress. The bruce A record time he talks about is overrated noone cares about it. He acts like he is the only one who can do bruce A. He rides the coattails of people who have high element weapons BTW AJAX is prob one of the top 3 fortegunners ive played with, Satar not even in top ten YODA and KYX are much better Burton is total doochebag noone likes you!!!!!!!

Pure-chan
Mar 4, 2007, 07:25 PM
On 2007-03-04 16:15, WallyJustice wrote:
that satar guy is so annoying to play with all he does is talk crap about how good he is. he does not impress. The bruce A record time he talks about is overrated noone cares about it. He acts like he is the only one who can do bruce A. He rides the coattails of people who have high element weapons BTW AJAX is prob one of the top 3 fortegunners ive played with, Satar not even in top ten YODA and KYX are much better Burton is total doochebag noone likes you!!!!!!!



Hi, Random.

Sgt_Shligger
Mar 4, 2007, 08:22 PM
On 2007-03-04 13:38, Rashiid wrote:

On 2007-03-04 11:42, Sgt_Shliggy wrote:
I was just going to say something like that, Jayster.

What if a beast or cast runs in and BLOCKS a fellow hunter? Even better, what if the two fortefighters run in OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS? I've seen the shotgun spread and it sure as Hell ain't enough to shoot two targets on each side. Also, rangers aren't as mobile with shotguns.

What if there's a Fighgunner? He can shoot back. No SE 4 but he can hurt you and dodge. Fortefighter is going to have more trouble but he's got solid HP and DFP. Level 4 burning? They can fight back while on fire. Enducing a level 4 Burning doesn't gaurentee death, nor does virus.



^ see? see all that? WAYY TO UNBALENCED! lol



Ok, that's not unbalanced. It's a bit more in rangers favor but it's not unbalanced. It's called tactics. Rangers. . . Look at the name. At point blank, shotguns won't do jack shit if the person is hitting you. It's really not going to be that hard to get in range to whack a ranger as a hunter.

Even a fortefighter can pack a decent punch with a handgun.

Rashiid
Mar 4, 2007, 08:28 PM
but the handgun doesnt flinch! monsters can maddash thru a pistol! (experienced too much >.>)

EC_Subbie
Mar 4, 2007, 08:30 PM
On 2007-03-03 10:05, _Deliverance_ wrote:
PVP never interested me in ffxi, but I think it would be pretty damn awesome in psu.



PvP was incredible in FFXI..you missed out big time. The team matches in ballista was my favorite part of the game, especially with skilled regulars who knew how to play. The huge 60+ matches with alliances vs alliances were a sight to behold. It's been a year since I quit..but those were some fun times.

As for kiler shot in pvp...or in general. Tell those fG to stop wasting their time on high sta enemies. KS is effective vs low sta robot enemies, not much else.

Sgt_Shligger
Mar 4, 2007, 08:37 PM
I'm talking about PvP and how it won't be unbalanced not how effective a handgun would be against a monster. . .

Rashiid
Mar 4, 2007, 08:41 PM
monsters = people....

meh, nvm.

ill just stop talking about this, since its never coming out anyway.

kthnxbye.

Hero-Break
Mar 4, 2007, 10:52 PM
Well, Imo, if they ever did try and make a good, PvP, the game would have to be changed. This is perfectlley realistic for they have changed PAs power through patches and the different modes (Offline vs Online). I would think that PvP would have its own version of stats and rules.; for insatnce, they could tweek the Skills/Bullets/Techs %, SE, and cost to be fair enough where a Diga and Killer shot wouldn't down a player in one hit.

Niered
Mar 4, 2007, 11:44 PM
Allright, there are two major points everyone here is forgetting, and is my reasoning for full heartedly supporting PvP.

1. Everyone here stating that PvP would suck is basing that assumption on...well...nothing. Have any of you PLAYED PvP in PSU? I thought not. Their is no way you can say that a system fails on nothing but CONJECTURE. Its like saying "OMAN, ketchup on scrambled eggs is HORRIBLE." Without ever having actually tried it. Oh sure, youve had ketchup (PSU) before, and youve had eggs (PvP in other games) before, but you havent got a clue as to what they would be like together until youve tried it.

2. And heres the ultimate reason all of you saying that PvP would suck based on the idea that one class is better then the other: PATCHES. I could end that statement here, but I'll elaborate. Basically, in the likely case that one class IS better in PvP then another, SEGA can (heres a novel idea!) PATCH that class in PvP! So there. Patches. Its like I just played the friggin ace of spades right there.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Niered on 2007-03-04 20:51 ]</font>

Scion
Mar 5, 2007, 01:41 AM
On 2007-03-04 20:44, Niered wrote:

1. ...Its like saying "OMAN, ketchup on scrambled eggs is HORRIBLE." Without ever having actually tried it. Oh sure, youve had ketchup (PSU) before, and youve had eggs (PvP in other games) before, but you havent got a clue as to what they would be like together until youve tried it...



Damn, that's a good analogy...

Anyways...

PvP...that's a toughie. Sega could implement the "Rules" that they had for PSO, but do you know how many people just ignored those and fought based on their current stats and gear? And had the freakin' audacity to say that they are much higher in skill than you are, when really, they were only 20 levels higher? Too many, that's for damned sure. God...that pissed me off. The reason why they allowed you to play through Ep1 and Ep2 in Battle Mode was so that you could play the "Friendly-Fire" version of PSO (it said something along the lines of that in the instruction manual). Unless you were opposed to having a FO on your team, doing that didn't really work. That wasn't intended to be the arena though.

But enough ranting. I'm sure a solution can be figured out (whether or not Sega comes up with that solution is uncertain). The only thing that really worries me is ranger types (and Fortetechers with bows, actually). They have all those SEs. Freeze level 4 would destroy you in a matter of seconds. Techs...yeah, they're powerful, but you can dodge them if you're alert.

If they include this, then I would be interested to see how it works. Sega just might forget about Rangers/Gunners/Fortetechers and leave them with their SE 4s in PvP mode. And that would just make lots of people arrogant/upset (depending on who's on the receiving end).

We will just have to wait and see. Until then, it'd be best not to draw conclusions so quickly.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hikaru-san on 2007-03-04 22:43 ]</font>