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landman
Mar 13, 2007, 01:10 AM
I was in discussion with a friend who stated that PSU was using the same graphical engine that ST developed for PSO in 2000, and me saying he was wrong, that the game look different and he can't appreciate it just looking pictures (he was comparing the two forest pictures…)

Of course I am not sure about I was saying, I don't understand a single thing about graphical engines or programming, but for me PSO had normal/good graphics for a Dreamcast and PSU has excellent graphics for a PS2...

So I would like to know the truth (engine names, versions, anything) and have proof to shout my friends mouth or to recognise my error (or dig a hole and not come out) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

This is not PSO vs. PSU topic, my friend is not a PSO defender or player, he is just a “bad” graphics hatter

Weeaboolits
Mar 13, 2007, 01:58 AM
I seriously doubt the engine is the same, PSO didn't have tile shake.

DurakkenX
Mar 13, 2007, 02:08 AM
PSO and PSU uses similliar engines and both in house developed and prolly PSU's is a later generation of PSO's.

Skuda
Mar 13, 2007, 02:55 AM
I don't know much, but from what I understand, they either went 1 of 2 ways on this.

1) Built a new engine from scratch (most likely)

or

2) Modified the old PSO engine. (least likely)

DurakkenX
Mar 13, 2007, 03:17 AM
even if it's not the same engine or based on the same base engine it will show to be a lot alike since both were built by the same people and while the coding may be a little bit more streamlined it will still use all the same basic stuff

landman
Mar 13, 2007, 04:26 AM
Then, what improvements have you seen in this new or similar engine?

Fore example:
- Boobies physics

SolRiver
Mar 13, 2007, 04:58 AM
PSU engine is defintely different (or a major add-on) to the PSO engine.

Having the ability to shift the face/eyes/lip would be a pretty challenging/tedious deed for an online game programming wise. I believe they spend most of their time on the character creation part of the engine. The most major change are there.

While other part of the world, PSU and PSO are still quite close, with PSU able to load more things at once. We didn't get to see as detailed graphic when PSU come out would probably mainly be caused by ST's focus on where to finish the project.

Since PSU focused so much on character creation, their base kind of lagged behind compared to many games out there. What I want to see now is expansion of PSU, because now that the base engine is out and over with, the texture and polygon buff might come at a more dramatic rate.

I assume ST also did not have enough money to out source too much making texture and render more detailed models...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2007-03-13 03:02 ]</font>

DurakkenX
Mar 13, 2007, 05:10 AM
you gotta understand an engine is also a very complex program and is often used in games you never think you'd not see it in and doesn't control just graphics, but physics and mechanics and whatever else there is. And because it is long and complex companies often shell out cash for a great engine or use in house stock engines.

Since PSU and PSO is a unique genre it is likely that they used the same engine or simply streamlined and modified what was wanted in ^.^

But then if you look at how the game works you pretty much have to say that it's a patched together mesh of new code and old code and they are not always workable together... One example of what they changed probably to fix a glaring problem was how damage is registered and calculated...and then there are hit boxes that have been extremely enlarged v.v

basically in PSU it
registers whether you are in range or not
checks the hit/miss
calculates the dmg if hit
performs the animation

in PSO it
performs the animation
calculates the dmg
checks if you're in range or not
checks whether you are hit or not

PSO's is actually better >.>

ryeenae
Mar 13, 2007, 06:38 AM
I think the character models look much better, but alot of the plants specifically look pretty similar. I mean, they're just three planes thrown together, the same technique used by Animal Crossing (a port of a frickin' N64 game). Nice to see they're moving forward. Also, I really miss being able to actually see everyone's character. Anyone playing on PS2 knows that there's no way in hell that more than a few models can be loaded at once. In my opinion I think it makes the game feel really impersonal, but maybe that's just me. -_-

Pure-chan
Mar 13, 2007, 10:31 AM
On 2007-03-13 03:10, DurakkenX wrote:

basically in PSU it
registers whether you are in range or not
checks the hit/miss
calculates the dmg if hit
performs the animation

in PSO it
performs the animation
calculates the dmg
checks if you're in range or not
checks whether you are hit or not

PSO's is actually better >.>



...better if you omit damage canceling from pso rafoie spam. T-T

Serephim
Mar 13, 2007, 11:37 AM
Your friend is a retard. Not only is the entire movement/fighting/menu engine different, this game uses much better graphical techniques than PSO.

The bloom lighting on the photon blades for one.


But what i AM mad about is the lack of Heat wave from the Foie class spells. Getting my Gifoie to lvl 26 to be suprised that it actully creates a Heat wave on my screen was amazing, but ive seen higher level Foie spells on PSU, and i see no blurring.

Garbage.


Well, let me clean up.


---
basically in PSU it
registers whether you are in range or not
checks the hit/miss
calculates the dmg if hit
performs the animation

in PSO it
performs the animation
calculates the dmg
checks if you're in range or not
checks whether you are hit or not

PSO's is actually better >.>
----

Basically, thats pretty much incorrect.

Neither PSO or PSU checks if your in range or not. The game uses Collision Bubbles im sure (which are invisible 3D objects that are basically used for telling where something is being hit.)

so, this would be more like this :

In PSU, it:

-performs the animation
-Collision Areas/bubbles appear
-Collision Areas/Bubbles collide
-Caculates damage
-(Unless them monster is blocking, in which case it cancles the damage)
-Approiate reaction animation is applied
- Damage bubble pops up
- Rinse and Repeat.

I think PSO worked a bit differently.

-Checks if you are in range or not
-If you arnt, you run normally.
-If you are in melee range, it targets the clostest monster, slows you down, and puts you in the Ready stance
-You turn and slash
-Starts animation
-Checks to see if collision bubbles touched
-depending on the monsters condition (in its Hit animation, or if its like the delsaber in which case if your infront of it and you slash, it goes in its blocking animation where melee doesnt hit it)
-You hit
-caculates monsters evasion and your accuracy to see if you hit or miss
-if you hit, it caculates damage
- damage pops up.


With magic, PSO worked more like this:


-Checks if you are in range or not
-you press the button

-(this will be split up)depending on which spell it was, it either shoots the spells collision out and has the effect/damage follow suit (Barta, Rabarta, Gibarta, Gifoie, and megid. I think Foie too.)



-or, it creates the spell effect on the monster, the effect shows up, but there is no damage collision. i think the damage just happens if the monster is in caculated range. (Gizonde and Razonde. Im actully pretty sure Rafoie does the same thing, because if something "walks" into the rafoie explosion it wont hurt them, because it only works for a few seconds. Im sure thats why Rafoie Damage-Cancles so much.)

- Zonde and Grants do the same thing, but only with single monsters. I know there is no damage bubble because even if another monster is litertately INSIDE another and you cast Zonde/Grants, no matter how big it is, you wont damage the other, so im sure it only does damage to the targeted monster.



And thats about it.

Sorry for trying to go into so much detail, but i have fun doing it. ;D

I havnet programmed any 3D games, but since ive been making Games and fangames for a while, i pretty much understand how everything works.


Oh yea, and btw


I think the character models look much better, but alot of the plants specifically look pretty similar. I mean, they're just three planes thrown together, the same technique used by Animal Crossing (a port of a frickin' N64 game). Nice to see they're moving forward. Also, I really miss being able to actually see everyone's character. Anyone playing on PS2 knows that there's no way in hell that more than a few models can be loaded at once. In my opinion I think it makes the game feel really impersonal, but maybe that's just me. -_-

The PS2 is kind of far behind the abilities of the Gamecube or the Xbox, but the system OBVIOUSLY can be pushed, just like the Gamecube was with RE4.

It can also be developed to take advantage of the system, just like the Gamecube and Wind Waker (which used so many frigging graphical effects it was overwhelming)

Just the fact that Capcom managed to port RE4 to the PS2 with downtowned lighting effects is proof enough that the system CAN be pushed far enough to satisfaction. Although it wasnt nearly as pretty as the GCN Version, it still looked great.


Im actully EXTREMELY amazed with the PS2's ability to run this game. The Character Models arnt horribly high poly, but Sonic Team did an A M A Z I N G job with the body features. (Face morphing, body morphing, changing eye and hair colors, and the colors of the casts as well)

The game does get some horrible slowdown at times, and the game actully lags behind with loading Sound Effects / Graphical effects / weapon models at times, but dont bash the ps2 like that.

It may be the weakest gen system, but Sonic Team did really, really, REALLY well with making this game run as smooth as it does on the ps2.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-03-13 10:18 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-03-13 10:21 ]</font>

oreidenewyork
Mar 13, 2007, 12:25 PM
made acct just to say, pso ep2 gfx crush this game's gfx, lvl where you fought olga flow anyway, that was the best looking level in any ps game http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

DurakkenX
Mar 13, 2007, 05:30 PM
serphim ^.^ i know there are collission bubbles and such but it doesn't act that way as anyone knows that even if you move away before the animation of a mob hitting you you will still get hit. So it does calc range or hit before the animation and because of that PSO's battle engine is superior imo.

Blueblur
Mar 13, 2007, 05:55 PM
Hey guys, I'm going to bring you back into reality for a moment. PSU looks like ass for a PS2 game. Metal Gear Solid 2 easily looks better than PSU and it was a 2nd generation PS2 game. PSO was more basic in graphical design (polygon counts and such) but there certainly was more polish with the graphics and the art.

In my opinion, PSU was rushed out the door. I don't know what gave them the idea to develop a major online title to produce revenue so late in the PS2's lifespan. It should have been overhauled for the next gen platforms.

Saphion
Mar 13, 2007, 05:58 PM
So true. I'd take the Forest over Parum anyday.

And the Central Control areas (Jungle, Seaside et all) from PSO currently reside in my Top Five Most Atmospheric Game Areas.

DarkDeception
Mar 13, 2007, 06:17 PM
well for starters the PS3 is aparantly a really hard system to program for not to mention it's on the PC and 360 as well. I know that the PC one runs very nicely if you have the right stuff. So sure it seems odd that they would release it on the PS2 so late in it's life but they would have to do a bunch of stuff to make it work on the PS3. I could be wrong about this, it's just stuff i've heard from friends so it's not like it's from a very credible source or at least one that i can link you to.

I can notice a big change on the PC version of PSU compared to the GC version of PSO. Just how the game runs on my computer is a lot smoother and a lot of the smaller things that tend to get overlooked like the character face proportion stuff IMO show that PSU has improved upon the PSO graphical engine. Not to mention the level of detailing that wasn't seen on PSO. I do run this at peak performance on my PC so the PS2 one isn't at par with that but it's what the game is capable of.

A2K
Mar 13, 2007, 06:59 PM
On 2007-03-13 15:55, Blueblur wrote:
I don't know what gave them the idea to develop a major online title to produce revenue so late in the PS2's lifespan. It should have been overhauled for the next gen platforms.

Their reasoning, as they have stated multiple times in the past, was that next gen platforms' user bases are relatively minuscule in comparison to PS2s, which are ubiquitous, especially in Japan.