Discovery in the PSO vs PSU battle

[Saigan]

I don't intend for this topic to be replied to. In fact I hope it isn't because I know it will ultimately get locked but here goes...

I tend to try and ignore these flame wars but I recently was involved in a discussion concerning Zelda OoT compared to TP. This is what everyone wound up agreeing on: OoT came out how long ago? It set the bar for 3D action/adventure games and many mechanics are in use by various other series today. The magic didn't come from anything particular it came from being the first of its kind. It holds an experience akin to playing Super Mario Bros. the first time. So even though Twilight Princess may be totally better in almost every respect we are 10 years older and harder to impress.

This being said I think the same can be said of PSO and PSU. PSO was the first online console RPG and the first online game for many people so we hold it in high regard. Hell, I was playing it last night and having a great time split screen. If PSU doesn't meet your expectations that's fine, PSO has gobs of replayability too. If you enjoy playing PSU then by all means play it, they improved many features and while it is true that you can't recreate "that special magic" it is still a solid and pleasing game to play.

*Prepares for a flaming*

[Mistle22]

No flaming from me, I 100% agree with you. Well said http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Tiyr]

I don't know why you'd get flamed for this. It's always been this way, really. Doom didn't have the wow factor of Wolfenstein 3d, either, as long as you'd played Wolf3d.

What you're saying is a general truism, and I don't think I know anyone who'd argue with it.

[LordJoe]

*lights a match... thinks about it... blows it out and walks away...*

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Yeah, it's called nostalgia.

[Saigan]

On 2007-03-15 14:46, Tiyr wrote:

What you're saying is a general truism, and I don't think I know anyone who'd argue with it.



Lol, you must be new to these boards =P

I'm just joking, I hope that didn't come off as rude. It simply seems that some folks on these boards hit "refresh" all day until they see a subject they can start a bickering contest on.

[Tengoku]

Quite true. Reality can never compare to the memory.

Much like a person's first car: it may have been a huge junker that ate money like a fat person eats cake, but it was the first time they took a road trip by themselves, got lost, went fast on a deserted road and scared themselves witless, drove around in the desert and got stuck, kissed a girl/ boy, made out with said girl/ boy, met weird people stopping for gas, found a neat place to eat, found a fun curvy road, etc.

Sure the new car will rock, but it won't hold the emotional attachment that the junker did. Mine wasn't a car, but a motorcycle, and the same held true. That thing was a beater, but it was probably the best motorcycle I ever owned, emotional attachment-wise. The later and newer ones were better in every way that counted, but emotions don't care about facts. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cool.gif

[Octavian]

New is a relative term.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I totally agree with you, you just can't get the same excitement from an original as you can from a sequel. that said, I still think PSU puts PSO to shame right now.

[Zorafim]

Funny thing, I think I actually find Mario Bros. to be more enjoyable than its future counterparts, and I played MB later than many of its SNES counterparts. I think I just like originality more than actual gameplay and the like.

[Saphion]

I've recently started playing PSO GC again (offline splitscreen funtime) and I'm saddened that this may be the last we see of it. Playing PSO on a PC just doesn't sit well with me. And I keep trying but I just can't settle into PSU at all.

Sonic Team could re-release the original PSO with fancier graphics and a new level every year or two and I'd quite happily buy it over and over again.

I'm odd like that.

[xBeRx]

Earlier this day I was in a game telling people how I missed the PSO ways, the lobbies, and the skill-button system.

But as said, it's a new game, new way of playing it, and now it's time to adapt. =]

[Zorafim]

Well, the next expansion may just be a reskin of PSO >.>

Hopefully it won't force the players to grind the same level continuously like the rest of the levels in PSU, or else that will really kill PSO.

[xBeRx]

On 2007-03-15 15:21, Zorafim wrote:
Well, the next expansion may just be a reskin of PSO >.>

Hopefully it won't force the players to grind the same level continuously like the rest of the levels in PSU, or else that will really kill PSO.



Reskin of PSO? I don't follow. @_@

[Serephim]

Well, personally i believe PSU has the potental to be 21290312302x what PSO was, but Sonic Team seems to be failing that approach.

Although they seem to be quickly picking up, as the new "expansion" for this game seems to be on the right track.


But yea, the reason PSO lovers bitch about PSU sucking is the same reason you guys still have your Sega Genesis and cartrages in your closets with every said game cartrage in an Emulator folder on your computer.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-03-15 16:21 ]</font>

[Callous]

On 2007-03-15 14:40, Saigan wroteThis being said I think the same can be said of PSO and PSU.
No, it can't. Completely disregarding nostalgia and first impressions, PSO is simply a much better designed game in most ways.

[omegapirate2k]

On 2007-03-15 18:26, Callous wrote:

On 2007-03-15 14:40, Saigan wroteThis being said I think the same can be said of PSO and PSU.
No, it can't. Completely disregarding nostalgia and first impressions, PSO is simply a much better designed game in most ways.



Where is it designed better?

[Callous]

On 2007-03-15 18:28, omegapirate2k wrote:
Where is it designed better?

If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the explanation.

[PJ]

That sounds like fanboyism, the, "I don't need to explain it, cause if you don't automatically know you're stupid," thing going on.

Oh Callous, you make me lol. Make a good post about how PSO is designed better, please <3

[omegapirate2k]

On 2007-03-15 18:29, Callous wrote:

On 2007-03-15 18:28, omegapirate2k wrote:
Where is it designed better?

If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the explanation.



Seriously, just spit some things out, whether I understand it or not, you'll be backing up your own argument.

[Callous]

Ah, PJ from the PSU Defence Force. As always on the ready and talking about fanboyism now! You are amusing. Keep it up :)

[Sekani]

On 2007-03-15 18:26, Callous wrote:

On 2007-03-15 14:40, Saigan wroteThis being said I think the same can be said of PSO and PSU.
No, it can't. Completely disregarding nostalgia and first impressions, PSO is simply a much better designed game in most ways.


Nope, you're completely wrong. And I don't need to explain why because you wouldn't understand it anyway. True story.

[Kent]

On 2007-03-15 18:29, Callous wrote:

On 2007-03-15 18:28, omegapirate2k wrote:
Where is it designed better?

If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the explanation.



So, instead of wasting your time and effort on this response, instead, make it worthwhile and explain it, befuddling him, and thus proving your accuracy in the process.

Go ahead.

[xBeRx]

PSU Expansion? Someone explain. -Is so behind.- T_T''

[Tiyr]

On 2007-03-15 18:29, Callous wrote:

On 2007-03-15 18:28, omegapirate2k wrote:
Where is it designed better?

If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the explanation.



PSO is better designed in the atmospheric, aesthetic sense. Which is to say--overall artistic design, music, ambiance. It felt more unified, and I never wanted to turn the music off. The important thing to note about this is that it's entirely subjective.

Everything else in PSU is an improvement--gameplay, more active battle system, customization options--both appearance-wish and the PA system--the "type" system...I could keep going, really. I loved PSO, I spent a few thousand hours on it, but as much as certain aesthetic choices in PSU drive me crazy, the game core is very much an improvement.

[Alisha]

i disagree i think psu went awry in a couple places. hmn where should i begin.

in pso i liked how certain forces had specialties in certain techs like how fonewms had bonuses on Ra and Gi techs.

in pso i liked the normal,hard mechanic for regular attacks. pa 's are great but now if you have enough pp to do so theres little reason not to spam pa's and not use normal attacks so weapons end up being defined by thier pa's and not by thier regular attacks. in pso if you started a combo with a special attack theres a good chance you would miss.

in pso you could go anywhere from one counter.

dynamic music.

FOmarl > wartecher

Animations:differing animations gave you a real reason to play different classes. i mean there was 3 unique double saber animations(male,female,hucaseal)who can forget ramarls unique handgun animation? at the very least they could of had different animations for each race. as is theres only a handful of animations that are different for females. i realize this caused some balance issues in pso but nobody cared outside of pvp.

pso had agito's i demand more katana's than just agito replica =/

[MrNomad]

Most of the reasons people say PSO>PSU was just atmosphere, which doesnt fit the cake for me considering how very uninspiring the story is and how repetetive everything started to get in PSO. PSU has more to offer gameplay wise and customization

[omegapirate2k]

On 2007-03-15 20:39, Tiyr wrote:
PSO is better designed in the atmospheric, aesthetic sense. Which is to say--overall artistic design, music, ambiance. It felt more unified, and I never wanted to turn the music off. The important thing to note about this is that it's entirely subjective.


Indeed, I actually LIKE PSU's music just as much as PSO's, frankly.

I may have the minorities opinion, but it's just that, an opinion.

[SolomonGrundy]

Seriously, just spit some things out, whether I understand it or not, you'll be backing up your own argument.



Here are 4 things:
1. Less megids
2. All weapons could have "specials' (think of them as SEs
3. Materials/mags made characters customizable with stats
4. Money was not so paralysingly tight


Here are 4 things PSU does better
1. No Sec Ids
2. You can change jobs (in PSO you were locked in)
3. More cusomtization of characters
4. No BSOD/Double save corruption issues




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-03-16 11:15 ]</font>

[Xihyon]

I kinda miss Pso now, ......

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-03-16 00:21, MrNomad wrote:
Most of the reasons people say PSO>PSU was just atmosphere, which doesnt fit the cake for me considering how very uninspiring the story is and how repetetive everything started to get in PSO. PSU has more to offer gameplay wise and customization



Just look at the area and enemy design in PSO, go ahead and tell me the D-cells aren't cooler than the Dark SEED, or that Seabed isn't cooler than any area in PSU.

[SolomonGrundy]

Just look at the area and enemy design in PSO, go ahead and tell me the D-cells aren't cooler than the Dark SEED, or that Seabed isn't cooler than any area in PSU.



Relics is pretty cool, to my mind. And Parnum = forest.

I remember Mines was pretty annoying in it's layout.

Music in PSO was genrally better, more appopriate, though.

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-03-16 01:03, SolomonGrundy wrote:





Just look at the area and enemy design in PSO, go ahead and tell me the D-cells aren't cooler than the Dark SEED, or that Seabed isn't cooler than any area in PSU.



Relics is pretty cool, to my mind. And Parnum = forest.

I remember Mines was pretty annoying in it's layout.

Music in PSO was genrally better, more appopriate, though.



I liked the mines, zonde pwned there ^_^

[Krisan]

I liked Twilight Princess 10x more that OoT, and I loved OoT.. So no, the one before it is not always seen as better.. in fact, I've said numerous times on this board already that PSU is by far designed MUCH better mechanically than PSO ever was, and has a lot more overall potential to it..

The problem with PSU is, in my opinion, a lack of general atmosphere.. Gurhal isn't well fleshed out, and everything seems to.. happy? For all this SEED invasion crap going on, there isn't a sign of distraught outside the Guardians HQ, and even IN the HQ, there lacks a great sense of foreboding that should be there.. The music shift from what it was in PSO was a bit awry too I think.. I mean, PSU has some great tracks, but must (practically) ALL of it be so upbeat?

It is part of the whole happy thing.. Some ambience can go a long way at times, and that is severely lacking in PSU. Plus, lighting in general seems screwed up.. The HIVE is a good example on both accounts.. Relatively bright stage with a lot of upbeat electronic music.. why? A darker lighting scheme and a bit of ambience would have made this place creepy, that's all it would have taken to set the mood.. but as it is now, I don't even pay attention to it being what it is - an heavily infested nest of evil critters.

I mean, it isn't that PSU is a bad game.. It is a great game, it just lacks a lot of subtle things that made the last one so.. so damned enthralling. I played PSO for years and rarely tired of the music, but PSU's tunes just begin to grind on my nerves.. something obviously went wrong there. o_O

I don't think the majority of people upset with PSU really hate it, but are just diappointed by it in many areas, since it lacks a lot of charm (for lack of a better word) that the last game had.. PSO was relatively dark with its storyline, and had a fairly wide selection of quests containing various (interesting) subplots.. And while PSU's main plotline is interesting in its own right (at least to me), the dark theme is barely represented anymore, and the subplots (and quests altogether really) are missing!

I don't want a carbon copy of PSO by any stretch.. we've played that game for years enough already. But I would have liked PSU to have kept some of the subtle things that made PSO so great.. (Mood, Lighting, Music) But eh.. Some people here don't seem to want to hear it, and I don't really understand why talking about the game on a constructive level like this is such a taboo.. I mean yea, outright complaining gets tiresome, but there are many things I think we should be vocal about if we ever hope to see the game genuinely improved upon in the future. (We do have some limited power in nudging them into making changesrevisions as expansions are released, after all..)

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-03-16 01:23, Krisan wrote:
I liked Twilight Princess 10x more that OoT, and I loved OoT.. So no, the one before it is not always seen as better.. in fact, I've said numerous times on this board already that PSU is by far designed MUCH better mechanically than PSO ever was, and has a lot more overall potential to it..

The problem with PSU is, in my opinion, a lack of general atmosphere.. Gurhal isn't well fleshed out, and everything seems to.. happy? For all this SEED invasion crap going on, there isn't a sign of distraught outside the Guardians HQ, and even IN the HQ, there lacks a great sense of foreboding that should be there.. The music shift from what it was in PSO was a bit awry too I think.. I mean, PSU has some great tracks, but must (practically) ALL of it be so upbeat?

It is part of the whole happy thing.. Some ambience can go a long way at times, and that is severely lacking in PSU. Plus, lighting in general seems screwed up.. The HIVE is a good example on both accounts.. Relatively bright stage with a lot of upbeat electronic music.. why? A darker lighting scheme and a bit of ambience would have made this place creepy, that's all it would have taken to set the mood.. but as it is now, I don't even pay attention to it being what it is - an heavily infested nest of evil critters.

I mean, it isn't that PSU is a bad game.. It is a great game, it just lacks a lot of subtle things that made the last one so.. so damned enthralling. I played PSO for years and rarely tired of the music, but PSU's tunes just begin to grind on my nerves.. something obviously went wrong there. o_O

I don't think the majority of people upset with PSU really hate it, but are just diappointed by it in many areas, since it lacks a lot of charm (for lack of a better word) that the last game had.. PSO was relatively dark with its storyline, and had a fairly wide selection of quests containing various (interesting) subplots.. And while PSU's main plotline is interesting in its own right (at least to me), the dark theme is barely represented anymore, and the subplots (and quests altogether really) are missing!

I don't want a carbon copy of PSO by any stretch.. we've played that game for years enough already. But I would have liked PSU to have kept some of the subtle things that made PSO so great.. (Mood, Lighting, Music) But eh.. Some people here don't seem to want to hear it, and I don't really understand why talking about the game on a constructive level like this is such a taboo.. I mean yea, outright complaining gets tiresome, but there are many things I think we should be vocal about if we ever hope to see the game genuinely improved upon in the future. (We do have some limited power in nudging them into making changesrevisions as expansions are released, after all..)



My sentiments exactly.

[Saphion]

Hmmm. Looks like I posted in the wrong thread (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=137677&forum=1&8).

Reading this thread though, it looks like some people want something new and some people want more of the same (me included). It all boils down to personal opinion.

It's a shame they couldn't cater to both camps here, really.

I have nothing against PSU; my problem is I went into it expecting more PSO and that's exactly what I didn't get. It's my own fault really. So I'll just have to wait and see if Sonic Team ever revive PSO some day. It's a bugger but I'll live with it.

Although I'd really like more PSO...

[Zorafim]

We all know that PSO was a dark game, but it wasn't the first PS game to be so. PSII was depressing if you delved deep into it, PSI was just dark enough to contrast its innocence, and PSIV had some areas that had you go "Damn" (pretty upbeat game at most parts, though). I don't know about PSIII due to not playing it, but it doesn't seem happy go lucky either.

As said before, I don't need a carbon copy of PSO, but I would love a carbon copy of previous PS games. Why make this game so different from them, to such a degree that only a few references here and there link the series at all?

[STARSBarry]

if your looking at game design in general, PSU is superior mechanics wise (in most areas)

if your looking at game design in an artistic sense, PSU fails to PSO. PSO for me was more artistically pleasing and you got a real sense of fighting for something when you went through a level online

if your looking at why the game gets worse reviews, less popularity etc, its due to SEGA charging money for bassicaly a futuristic Diablo 2 in 3D and for that it will never ever be as populer or as widely accepted as PSO for the dreamcast was (lets face it given the choice would you play PSO v2 for dreamcast FOR FREE or PSOBB with an extra chapter with a price tag added?)

[Saphion]

Sorry for deviating, but after seeing STARSBarry name I just have to say this:

"You were nearly a Jill sandwich!"

That is all.

[WrathOfMegid]

Eh, what now?
.....Anywhoooo.

I'm not a fan of game music in general, but even I agree that HIVE is too happy(even offline http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif).
Also, Tricktrack = win.
But I think we still have more to see from PSU, don't give up on it yet. I think the general lack of creativity in the offline story mode was meant to appeal to newcomers to the PS series, and PSU was meant to be a little more "mainstream" as opposed to dark storylines from older PS titles. But with the continuance of the online story mode, we may get to see more and more sidequests that are actually quests rather than just monster/meseta/item farming.

I loved PSO, and seeing a nice remake would make me oh so happy. But I think we might be sending the wrong message. I believe that we want to say, "Hey SEGA! Give us more ambience, better atmosphere, a fair amount of nostalgia, and a deeper story!" But just from what I've read SEGA might be hearing just "Hey assholes! Copy and paste from PSO, don't you know anything."

My deepest fear is that the expansion will do no more than merely resurrect PSO, which is a good thing in itself. But I think we also need some serious improvement to PSU's experience seperate of PSO. Then the game will truly come into its own.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: WrathOfMegid on 2007-03-16 12:44 ]</font>

[Saphion]

Alright, maybe that was a little obscure.

How about... "YOU, the master of unlocking..."

But yes. You have to feel sorry for the PSU team, they wanted to make something different from PSO only for it to be criticised for that exact reason.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-03-16 13:43, Saphion wrote:
Alright, maybe that was a little obscure.

How about... "YOU, the master of unlocking..."

But yes. You have to feel sorry for the PSU team, they wanted to make something different from PSO only for it to be criticised for that exact reason.



different is fine. but take the elements of PSO that made it great, and go from there.

[Saphion]

I don't know what was so wrong with PSO's formula in the first place.

Surely to have caused so many people to be addicted for so long, it had to have done something right.

It's like they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.".

[VanHalen]

On 2007-03-16 13:56, Saphion wrote:
I don't know what was so wrong with PSO's formula in the first place.

Surely to have caused so many people to be addicted for so long, it had to have done something right.

It's like they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.".



PSU is just as addictive as PSO imo. Probably even more do to the customization and Photon Arts.

[Saigan]

Happily I'm seeing (mostly) good arguements on both sides of the table. And I thought this was gonna get locked =P

I personally am looking forward to the expansion regardless of wether or not it's a re-skin or simply VR quests. I also think it would be great if they continued both series PSO and PSU with their respective styles and gameplay. Heck a PS MMORPG would probably captivate me as well.

Please continue the discussion in a civil manner as you were before by providing reasonable explanations of your opinions.

[ShinMaruku]

Unlike TP and OOT I find PSU better than PSO although there are some things I'd like from PSO but I think PSU is far better. Now Zelda I find them both the same. I like TP's last boss though. He's a thug. XD

[zandra117]

There are 4 things that PSU messed up on, Music, Scenery, and Fighting.

Music: Already been explained.

Scenery: In PSO characters actually had a real shadow. In PSU characters have a shaded circle on the ground below them instead of a real shadow. In PSO areas didn't look the same all the way through them. For example in the Seabed there was a submarine loading dock. In the forest there was the central dome that you eventually climbed on top of and there was a river running through it with rain falling. In caves there was waterfalls and lava fountains. In the mines there was storage rooms witth little maintenance robots flying around. In the ruins there was the room with the Huge blast hole and a hidden area behind the waterfall, there was also an engine room and the control room right before the boss. The missions never were straightforward like PSU missions. You could actually get lost in some of the PSO areas. PSU really doesn't have this. PSU areas tend to look the same from beginning to end.

Fighting: This is what really messed up PSU. You can easily dodge with the strafe button, The Photon arts seemed cool at first but then we noticed that because of them there are no weapon specific special attacks (like divine punishment on the heaven's punisher) They messed up the TECHNICs on PSU and I'm not complaining about them having no auto target. In PSO TECHNICs were very unique from eachother and had different uses depending on the situation. In PSU Technics all look exactly the same except for their element. In PSU you tend to use your most powerful TECHNIC for every situation. PSU is now a total button masher, you don't have to time your combos anymore or use battle strategy anymore like normal attack->heavy attack->retreat to make your enemy flinch and keep yourself from getting smacked. Now its simply "spam the PA's!"

Aditional things that they messed up:
Moon Atomizer: Might as well not use them because theres a penalty anyway. And if I return to town there is always a warp crystal for me to get back. (In pso there wasn't always a warp back, you also had to depend on your friends having telepipes for you to get back or else you had to run forever to catch up.)

Useable weapons determined by character job instead of each individual weapon determining who can equip it: In PSO there was some guns and swords that forces could use, staffs and swords that rangers could use and guns and staffs that hunters could use.

TECHNICs attached to your weapon: already discussed

No Materials: In PSO you could improve your base stats by finding and using materials. They could have added this in PSU by adding a mag feeding type system to your character that would allow you to eat food items and level certain individual stats. They could make it where every 3 hours your character will get hungry and you can eat 3 food items your stats would improve and last 8 hours then return to normal stats except for any additional feeding you may have done within 8 hours of the first feeding. that way you can improve your stats for a while by feeding yourself.

I can't think of anything else right now.

[Sychosis]

Music: Already been explained.

Purely opinion. I think both soundtracks are rather bland.


Scenery: In PSO characters actually had a real shadow. In PSU characters have a shaded circle on the ground below them instead of a real shadow. In PSO areas didn't look the same all the way through them. For example in the Seabed there was a submarine loading dock. In the forest there was the central dome that you eventually climbed on top of and there was a river running through it with rain falling. In caves there was waterfalls and lava fountains. In the mines there was storage rooms witth little maintenance robots flying around. In the ruins there was the room with the Huge blast hole and a hidden area behind the waterfall, there was also an engine room and the control room right before the boss. The missions never were straightforward like PSU missions. You could actually get lost in some of the PSO areas. PSU really doesn't have this. PSU areas tend to look the same from beginning to end.

Shadows can be blamed on weak PS2 hardware.

The actual scenery is just as pretty as PSO. I love the rainstorm during the fight with Onmagoug in Eastern Peril, the night time scenery of Moonlight Beast, etc.

As for getting lost...did you really get lost in PSO? I can't imagine getting lost unless you hit a teleporter maze.


Fighting: This is what really messed up PSU. You can easily dodge with the strafe button, The Photon arts seemed cool at first but then we noticed that because of them there are no weapon specific special attacks (like divine punishment on the heaven's punisher) They messed up the TECHNICs on PSU and I'm not complaining about them having no auto target. In PSO TECHNICs were very unique from eachother and had different uses depending on the situation. In PSU Technics all look exactly the same except for their element. In PSU you tend to use your most powerful TECHNIC for every situation. PSU is now a total button masher, you don't have to time your combos anymore or use battle strategy anymore like normal attack->heavy attack->retreat to make your enemy flinch and keep yourself from getting smacked. Now its simply "spam the PA's!"

I don't see how adding strafing detracts from the game. Anything that put more control in the player's hands instead of raw stats is fine by me.

There is nothing to suggest that weapon specific PAs are impossible.

There are more unique types/spell effects in PSU than in PSO.

For battle strategy...get with a better group?


Moon Atomizer: Might as well not use them because theres a penalty anyway. And if I return to town there is always a warp crystal for me to get back. (In pso there wasn't always a warp back, you also had to depend on your friends having telepipes for you to get back or else you had to run forever to catch up.)

There are missions where it's a better idea to leave your scapes at home. Most involve a boss where moons come in very handy. It's also possible that missions without the death penalty will be made available ala the Netcash event.


Useable weapons determined by character job instead of each individual weapon determining who can equip it: In PSO there was some guns and swords that forces could use, staffs and swords that rangers could use and guns and staffs that hunters could use.

TECHNICs attached to your weapon: already discussed

In a sense, weapons were also decided by class on PSO, PSU just makes the lines very clear.

I for one am glad I can't run around slinging spells with swords. Any game where a melee spell user is just as good, if not better than a spell casting spell user has something fundamentally wrong with spells.


No Materials: In PSO you could improve your base stats by finding and using materials. They could have added this in PSU by adding a mag feeding type system to your character that would allow you to eat food items and level certain individual stats. They could make it where every 3 hours your character will get hungry and you can eat 3 food items your stats would improve and last 8 hours then return to normal stats except for any additional feeding you may have done within 8 hours of the first feeding. that way you can improve your stats for a while by feeding yourself.

If you miss them, fine. But their removal certainly doesn't detract from PSU :/

[Grim_Reaver]

On 2007-03-17 14:53, zandra117 wrote:
There are 4 things that PSU messed up on, Music, Scenery, and Fighting.


There are also 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who cannot. =P

[Alisha]

am i the only one that misses the strategy of attacking with melee weapons? in pso you had to worry if that final hit in the combo was gonna finish off the monster because if it didnt or if you missed the monster would probally introduce your face to the ground. though this was more prevalant in challange mode. now its like meh i'll just sit your ass on the ground,or blast you across the screen. also the timing for melee weapons is totaly fucked up compared to pso. timing was extremely important in pso because for some weapons you had to slightly delay the second hit in the combo chain. now in psu you could use an autofire controller and hold down the button while the combo executes.... i often get the feeling i put way more thought into melee combat than the average player ><

[ShinMaruku]

Both games have weak ass soundtracks for sure.

[Kent]

On 2007-03-17 18:15, Alisha wrote:
am i the only one that misses the strategy of attacking with melee weapons? in pso you had to worry if that final hit in the combo was gonna finish off the monster because if it didnt or if you missed the monster would probally introduce your face to the ground. though this was more prevalant in challange mode. now its like meh i'll just sit your ass on the ground,or blast you across the screen. also the timing for melee weapons is totaly fucked up compared to pso. timing was extremely important in pso because for some weapons you had to slightly delay the second hit in the combo chain. now in psu you could use an autofire controller and hold down the button while the combo executes.... i often get the feeling i put way more thought into melee combat than the average player ><


Putting that amount of thought into melee combat, means you actually understand the game than "the average player."

The ability to delay an attack in a combo is still there in PSU, but the window for doing so is much, much smaller.

In PSO, you also had two to three different attacks to choose from (normal/heavy/extra), and had to pick them strategically. Of course, this is why Partisans were the best weapontype in the game, because you could Normal-Heavy-Heavy an enemy right in the face, pull back on the stick, and you'd move just in time to dodge most enemy attacks.

PSU's combat is more twitch, whereas PSO's was more rhythmic. If you got the rhythm down, and applied it to your combat tactics, you'd be almost untouchable in PSO. Now in PSU, you can't manipulate enemy positions without use of PP (or an axe), and the absolutely horrible netcode makes the game too laggy to two-inch-dodge reliably, unless you're offline.

While the advances they made to the quick weapon switch menu are fantastic in PSU, and the ability to dual-wield is nice and all, but the way techniques are used now, is nothing short of flawed. At least, with how there isn't a left-handed technique-casting weapon available. It makes the concept of a Wartecher, essentially broken - while in PSO, FOmar and FOmarls played quite well, in capable hands.

Those things, I can work around, though.

The biggest problem with PSU, for me, is the lack of variance in the areas. Sure, there are a couple variations of which blocks you go through, and several different enemy layouts, but the blocks themselves are exactly the same. That is, say you're going for De Ragan. There are probably four total different blocks for the area, and you go through three of them each time you run through the mission. It just feels like each area is a little limited in variation, compared to places in PSO...

That, and the game is set up like Guild Wars (another non-MMO), and seems to encourage doing the exact same mission, over and over and over and over. When there's very little variance in the missions, it gets redundant, and fast. You could run an area four times in a row, and see every single variation there is to it.

At least in PSO, it encouraged going through a series of areas, before repeating the whole process. :/

[Serephim]

On 2007-03-17 14:53, zandra117 wrote:
There are 4 things that PSU messed up on, Music, Scenery, and Fighting.

Music: Already been explained.

Scenery: In PSO characters actually had a real shadow. In PSU characters have a shaded circle on the ground below them instead of a real shadow. In PSO areas didn't look the same all the way through them. For example in the Seabed there was a submarine loading dock. In the forest there was the central dome that you eventually climbed on top of and there was a river running through it with rain falling. In caves there was waterfalls and lava fountains. In the mines there was storage rooms witth little maintenance robots flying around. In the ruins there was the room with the Huge blast hole and a hidden area behind the waterfall, there was also an engine room and the control room right before the boss. The missions never were straightforward like PSU missions. You could actually get lost in some of the PSO areas. PSU really doesn't have this. PSU areas tend to look the same from beginning to end.

Fighting: This is what really messed up PSU. You can easily dodge with the strafe button, The Photon arts seemed cool at first but then we noticed that because of them there are no weapon specific special attacks (like divine punishment on the heaven's punisher) They messed up the TECHNICs on PSU and I'm not complaining about them having no auto target. In PSO TECHNICs were very unique from eachother and had different uses depending on the situation. In PSU Technics all look exactly the same except for their element. In PSU you tend to use your most powerful TECHNIC for every situation. PSU is now a total button masher, you don't have to time your combos anymore or use battle strategy anymore like normal attack->heavy attack->retreat to make your enemy flinch and keep yourself from getting smacked. Now its simply "spam the PA's!"

Aditional things that they messed up:
Moon Atomizer: Might as well not use them because theres a penalty anyway. And if I return to town there is always a warp crystal for me to get back. (In pso there wasn't always a warp back, you also had to depend on your friends having telepipes for you to get back or else you had to run forever to catch up.)

Useable weapons determined by character job instead of each individual weapon determining who can equip it: In PSO there was some guns and swords that forces could use, staffs and swords that rangers could use and guns and staffs that hunters could use.

TECHNICs attached to your weapon: already discussed

No Materials: In PSO you could improve your base stats by finding and using materials. They could have added this in PSU by adding a mag feeding type system to your character that would allow you to eat food items and level certain individual stats. They could make it where every 3 hours your character will get hungry and you can eat 3 food items your stats would improve and last 8 hours then return to normal stats except for any additional feeding you may have done within 8 hours of the first feeding. that way you can improve your stats for a while by feeding yourself.

I can't think of anything else right now.




Fighting SAVED PSU. I havent played PSU online yet, but these are my few cents.

Music - A GRAND screwup of this game, imo. The music in PSO really made the situations fun (Espically in Seabed and Spaceships. All of Ep.2 really, because the music was better.) but the music in PSU is extremely boring. PSO music kept from getting repetitive becuase it had a Calm and Rough version of each track, so the music constantly feels like its changing or different, and your subconcious doesnt pick up on the repetitiveness.

PSU, on the other hand, makes me sick of the music on the first 4 loops. (the only exception would be the first seed attack mission music. ITs the only one i really like, but its also ruined when they use the same thing for the Fire and Ice seed invasions, then you dont wanna hear it anymore.)

People say music isnt that important, but when it comes to Atmosphere, it REALLY, REALLY is. For instance, using Heavy and fast music in a Final battle will have a COMPLETELY different effect on the player than if you use slow, calm, or even sad music. Depending on the situation, it can go perfect either way.

2. Level Design

Bland as shit. Im really happy how they did the outside missions and made them actully...outside, but the Indoor missions are completely drab. There arnt enough Small and Large rooms to make the large rooms have an actual impact. (like in Story Mode, playing the temple area right before Mirei died. I almost fell asleep.)

PSO had a kind of room design that was just fun. dont know how, but it was. PSU's is just lacking for some reason. There isnt enough to look at, there isnt enough going on in the levels to set the atmosphere. The First parts of the levels are awesome, but when you get to the 2nd -5th blocks of a stage and they dont change, it get BORING.

Examples-
Forest 1 - sunny and bright
Forest 2 - Raining, computers are broken.

Cave 1 - Hot, really hot.
Cave 2 - Almost looks cold in there. Wet and dripy.
Cave 3 - Mystical. Gemstones are forming on the walls?

Mines 1 - Technological. Lights and technology are everywhere.

Mines 2 - Completely destroyed. Floors are cracked, Mirrors are broken, lights dont work, the walls, wires, and floors have electricity sparking and surging through them.

(And here comes the coolest stage on PSO besides Seabed.)

Ruins 1 - Generic? Mystical? Your on an alien ship!
Ruins 2 - Odd.. The alien ship is starting to look like Mines 2, except darker. Odd things breath fog on you, and some rooms are completely destroyed/dark/sparking.
Ruins 3 - O M G W T F. There are things living on the walls. Everywhere you walk you can see the essense of something living, pulsating, breathing. Even on the ceilings and IN THE FLOORS you can see something ominious. The rooms get wierder and wierder all the way until the end, where even the teleporter is englufed.


Ep. 2?

temples - nothing too awesome here, its a VR room. but you can see water flow down the walls, look out the horizon and you can see an old city or something.

Spaceships - Pretty cool. You walk in rooms and lasers seem to take pictures of you, the walls have videos playing of Ragol, Pioneer 2, and the explosion, the environment is constantly changing.


(SECOND FAVROITE STAGE COMING UP, GRANTED YOUR ON GCN/XBOX, Only because Blue Burst doesnt give the water the beautiful Distortion effect, i dont know why.)
Jungle - My FAVROITE stage aside from the Seabed. You start off in a part of the jungle where theres beautuful water everywhere, flowing down from the ceiling.

Jungle 2 - Prettiest area in the game. Your on like a mountian, the sunlight glistens in the water, and the trees cast awesome light shadows on the ground while you fight. This stage was done perfectly IMO.

Seaside - Pretty water, but not as pretty as the Jungle because theres nothing but beach here pretty much. You go in caves where water flows in at your ankles, and you can walk out to the ocean and watch how the coral changes from blue to dark green the further you go out. Perfect concept for this stage.

Mountian - Not a huge fan of this stage (because in Ultimate mode those damn things shock you til you throw your controller at the screen), but even this stage had its awesome moments. You get higher up as you go, the scenery over the horizon is beautiful, and you fight on hillsides where the bushes kind of give a Ghost Recon type cover for you and the monsters.



(Best stage ever)
Seabed 1 - This is so cool. Your in a underwater base where the corridors have mirrors so you can actully see the deep ocean. The place is sort of flooded, and in some spots where you fight or walk the water comes up to your calves. The rooms that arnt destroyed still have beautiful water fountians and effects to them, and the ones that ARE look pretty well destroyed.

Seabed 2 - The level design at its best. The water obviously is flooding the facility. Broken windows and dimmed lights shows your getting close to the darkness. D-Cell enemies are much more frequent, and some parts of the stage put you in a dark area where the water comes up to your frigging chest. The last corridor has water almost to your neck, and all you can see down the dark corridor is the water and the bright light leading to the Elevator fight and the bottom tunnel battle with Olga Flow.


Little things like the Water, Trees, Lighting, and broken tidbits that have NOTHING to do with gameplay whatsoever are what made those stages as awesome as they were.

Phantasy Star Universe actully has plenty of it. you see something really amazing looking that cathes your eye frequently, but you see it so damn much that it just doesnt appear fun to watch after the second time you see it, followed by the third and seventh until your just ready to finsh the stage.

the Seed monsters are interesting looking, but they just wernt applied enough. D-Cell monsters were MUCH more diverse and dangerous.

[Saphion]

I completely agree with all of that, but especially the level design - to even make it seem slightly more interesting in PSO instead of essentially seeing the same rooms over and over again, they'd chuck in unique rooms or bits of eyecandy to beak things up.

For example, the flying jellyfish in Caves 2, the sharks that pop up sometimes in Seabed or the little floaty machines in VR Spaceship.

And as for rooms, there's the Central Dome section in Forest 2, the 'furnace' room in Caves 1, the waterfall room in Caves 2, the 'big room' in Ruins 2, etc. etc. Even the long corridor before the final section in Ruins 3 had some charm to it.

Even though the average PSO player would see these same landmarks countless times, it gave the areas enough charm and ambience that it really didn't matter that we'd see them about 10,000 times more and was just enough to make repeating the same level bearable.

Well, to me anyway.

[Parn]

PSU has it's own little unique spots too. The problem is that they're all lobbies.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-03-18 08:50, Parn wrote:
PSU has it's own little unique spots too. The problem is that they're all lobbies.



I don't see it as much of a problem. Sure you can't whirl about with your fancy pants skills, but there are so many more animations you can do. More animations leads to higher levels of silliness http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I seem to recall an encounter between Hale and Aurelianis yesterday at the hot springs. God I wish I had my capture card set up at the time http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[DurakkenX]

a little bit ago...it was asked what was wrong with PSO... the answer is quite simple... SEGA.

If you look at any of their track record and how they handle business you can see that most of their success were all accidents and those successful accidents were later ruined by bad management or just little design flaws.

PSO for example started out brilliantly and had so much going for it, such as it's uniqueness in game play and it being the only one on the market. The whole idea of PSO was to bring together players from all over the world like what the in game pioneer project did and allow them to work together... BUT this was ruined by SEGA's blatant favoritism. If you deny that they don't play favorites then just do a little research on just about any Sega product. Because of the PSO fell. Not by it's own merits but because of Sega.

Then we move to the rebirth of PSO on GC and xbox...GC was opened to hacking all over which was created mainly from the animosity of the DC PSO. And on xbox people lost out on much of the content because Sega and MS couldn't get it straight who was doing what. Let me tell you...You can say what you want about Windows, but the Xbox live and xbox division of MS strive very hard to put out quality on time and have since it's inception which leads me to the belief that Sega is more to blaim for this.

Of course that's not even mentioning the shear fact that PSO was doomed to never reach max capacity as DC production anywhere other than in Japan was terminated even though it is widely acclaimed as one of the 2 best systems ever. And before DC there was Saturn which also is still talked about as being great...if only you could get the games for it. Sega simply didn't release many of the games overseas and the trend still is continue with them.

Sega has also merged with Sammy and inherited Guilty Gear which it has since pretty much killed because they just keep on putting out little tweaked versions of the same thing and they are doing it much worse than Capcom ever did...and you know they are the ONLY 2D fighter of their caliber still producing games and they can't even get a decent share of the market with it.

So what's wrong with PSO? Sega
What's wrong with PSU? Sega

[Saphion]

The amazing thing is, PSO was originally just a demo for Sonic Team to test out online play that blossomed into a full game (or so I've been told).

[DurakkenX]

You crossed stories v.v Sonic was a demo for a team that just accidentally became popular. It was to show off the Genesis' power...

PSO was one of the only advertised games for DC

[Saphion]

Ah. Evidently I was told wrong!

Whoops.

[PJ]

I think it's funny, how everyone's spouting stuff like, "PSU MUSIC SHIT PSO MUSIC ROOOCKS," does ANYONE REMEMBER THE CAVES?

Jesus Christ. Every good rare was there, but it was easily the worst stage in gaming history. Everyone had to play that stage for the shit they wanted.

And again, PSU music sucks? Go to Neudaiz please. Nothing in PSO touches the awesome of Mizuruki or the Forrested Island music. Well, MAYBE the Ep4 music (Minus the interior Crater), but NOBODY even brings up Episode 4 for SOME reason.

[Sekani]

I didn't even know Episode 4 existed until they announced the server shutdown.

And while Episode 1's music was bleh (especially Caves, worst stage in the history of anything), Episode 2 has the best music overall. PSU is somewhere in the middle.

I noticed that another problem with PSU is that the best tracks aren't the ones you hear very often (especially if you're one of the many who spammed Plains Overlord to hell and back and are now on Lab Recovery).

[PJ]

True. It's hard to appreciate what's there when you're NOT there (As in... yeah, the spammers of Labs currently)

But, because music is a taste, and taste is an opinion, as there WERE good tracks on PSO, I still feel PSU's music is better. I LIKED Tricktrack back on PSO. I can't stand to listen to it on PSU.

[Saphion]

Offline, the Caves was a bloody killer. It just went on FOR SO LONG. Although the Ob Lilies kept people on their toes...

It wasn't really a problem online for me though - I was always in the company of friends and we were always having a laugh. Caves + Friends x Having a good time regardless of area = Win

[ShinMaruku]

Bah they both bow down to: http://www.the-magicbox.com/0701/ng18.jpg

[Sekani]

On 2007-03-18 10:18, PJ wrote:
But, because music is a taste, and taste is an opinion, as there WERE good tracks on PSO, I still feel PSU's music is better. I LIKED Tricktrack back on PSO. I can't stand to listen to it on PSU.


I actually tried running Bruce with Tricktrack part 2 set as the BGM once. Didn't sound right at all.

[Pengfishh]

Thinking about this, then reading Tengoku's car analogy, I apply my position:

I appreciate PSU more than PSO because it is a better game, just as I appreciate my current vehicle (a nice Nissan Frontier) over my first vehicle (a 1989 Honda Accord).

[Saphion]

I miss the Dreamcast.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[xBeRx]

On 2007-03-18 10:41, Saphion wrote:
I miss the Dreamcast.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Ditto. =[

[Serephim]

On 2007-03-18 10:00, PJ wrote:
I think it's funny, how everyone's spouting stuff like, "PSU MUSIC SHIT PSO MUSIC ROOOCKS," does ANYONE REMEMBER THE CAVES?

Jesus Christ. Every good rare was there, but it was easily the worst stage in gaming history. Everyone had to play that stage for the shit they wanted.

And again, PSU music sucks? Go to Neudaiz please. Nothing in PSO touches the awesome of Mizuruki or the Forrested Island music. Well, MAYBE the Ep4 music (Minus the interior Crater), but NOBODY even brings up Episode 4 for SOME reason.



Caves WERE horrible, but i beleive the music is to blame. The music in that stage was just SOOOOoo boring, and De Rol Le is STILL the most annoying boss ever aside from Arkham in DMC3. (bottles the rage.)


But yea, the Caves should have gotten better music. All 3 stages had pretty awesome level design.

Although those fucking ob lillies are the reason i cry at night.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-03-19 10:32 ]</font>

[Garnet_Moon]

PSO sucked, but it had Elly Person in that sexy uniform in Episode 2.

PSU sucks, but it has Karen in delicious stockings.

I can't pick a favorite after I saw Karen. >.<;

[omegapirate2k]

You know what would be cool? I level with the same design as Faron falls.

Yeah, that would be sweet.

[A2K]

On 2007-03-18 09:36, Saphion wrote:
The amazing thing is, PSO was originally just a demo for Sonic Team to test out online play that blossomed into a full game (or so I've been told).

I believe the game you are hinting at is actually Chu Chu Rocket.

[SolomonGrundy]

Caves was hard? Meh. offline you but you delsabers shield, resist/dark, and a 15-20% dark armor and you were safe.

I used to solo endless nighmare 2 with a 14x level HUcaseal. Usually without any dying. ever now and a again a random rare lilly would pop up and then tings *really* got interesting.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2007-03-18 10:00, PJ wrote:
I think it's funny, how everyone's spouting stuff like, "PSU MUSIC SHIT PSO MUSIC ROOOCKS," does ANYONE REMEMBER THE CAVES?

Jesus Christ. Every good rare was there, but it was easily the worst stage in gaming history. Everyone had to play that stage for the shit they wanted.

And again, PSU music sucks? Go to Neudaiz please. Nothing in PSO touches the awesome of Mizuruki or the Forrested Island music. Well, MAYBE the Ep4 music (Minus the interior Crater), but NOBODY even brings up Episode 4 for SOME reason.



Finally someone agrees w/ me on the music of PSU and PSO. I HATED the boring Caves music and I thought that I was the only one who actually like the music of the outdoors Neudaiz missions.

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-03-19 11:25, Shiroryuu wrote:

On 2007-03-18 10:00, PJ wrote:
I think it's funny, how everyone's spouting stuff like, "PSU MUSIC SHIT PSO MUSIC ROOOCKS," does ANYONE REMEMBER THE CAVES?

Jesus Christ. Every good rare was there, but it was easily the worst stage in gaming history. Everyone had to play that stage for the shit they wanted.

And again, PSU music sucks? Go to Neudaiz please. Nothing in PSO touches the awesome of Mizuruki or the Forrested Island music. Well, MAYBE the Ep4 music (Minus the interior Crater), but NOBODY even brings up Episode 4 for SOME reason.



Finally someone agrees w/ me on the music of PSU and PSO. I HATED the boring Caves music and I thought that I was the only one who actually like the music of the outdoors Neudaiz missions.



I, for one, have never played episode four, so I can't reference it, sadly...

Anyway, as I see it, the music in PSU isn't really that bad, per se, but you must admit that a lot of it is quite... forgettable... And though I love Raffon's jaunty tunes, I can't help but long for the atmospheric music of PSO, especially the boss tunes, I mean, when I fight De Ragan, I don't even hear the music, it's so forgettable that my brain just kinda' tunes it out, what we need is something like IDOLA Have The Devine Blade, I loved how it continuously built up never reaching a climax.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ronin_Cooper on 2007-03-19 12:17 ]</font>

[ljkkjlcm9]

you're all crazy. I go back and try to play PSO now, and I can't stand it. FAR too repetitive. Say what you want, but weapons only did the same animation over and over, and nothing special. If I want to see something different in PSU, I can change the PA! Plus PSO was just too darn slow. I'm sorry, I can't stand PSO after playing PSU, it was like ripping my hair out trying to run up and attack an enemy.

I honestly don't understand how people can think PSO is superior to PSU.

THE JACKEL

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-03-19 12:26, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
you're all crazy. I go back and try to play PSO now, and I can't stand it. FAR too repetitive. Say what you want, but weapons only did the same animation over and over, and nothing special. If I want to see something different in PSU, I can change the PA! Plus PSO was just too darn slow. I'm sorry, I can't stand PSO after playing PSU, it was like ripping my hair out trying to run up and attack an enemy.

I honestly don't understand how people can think PSO is superior to PSU.

THE JACKEL



People have been saying that PSO was better from a creative standpoint, NOT a technical one, we're talking look and feel, not control.

[Zorafim]

On 2007-03-18 10:13, Sekani wrote:
And while Episode 1's music was bleh (especially Caves, worst stage in the history of anything), Episode 2 has the best music overall. PSU is somewhere in the middle.



I wish to comment on the fact that the VR stages in PSO were remixed songs from previous PS games. Normally, the coolest parts of the coolest songs all rolled to one. That's what made it win.

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-03-19 12:31, Zorafim wrote:

On 2007-03-18 10:13, Sekani wrote:
And while Episode 1's music was bleh (especially Caves, worst stage in the history of anything), Episode 2 has the best music overall. PSU is somewhere in the middle.



I wish to comment on the fact that the VR stages in PSO were remixed songs from previous PS games. Normally, the coolest parts of the coolest songs all rolled to one. That's what made it win.



Heh, I remember playing PSII, and immediately after going into battle I was like "Oh my god, that's tricktrack! ^___^"

[DurakkenX]

everyone hates caves...even in the earliest days... you played forest, skip caves, played mines and ruins lol

PSU is great but realistically it is pretty much a step back from PSO

Rares? less to non-existent
game play? better
party players? more
level design? longer and what we asked for, but less charming
character design? better on a piece by piece basis, but in overall worse.
replayability? clearly worse....not as much to do
missions? PSU has less than when PSO first came out...and PSO's are better.
bosses? worse... PSU bosses are all the same.
party play? worse...harder to find a party
solo play? worse...both are unbalanced, but PSU seems to have the motto of "stop melee" for every enemy.
explorability? for however large the "cities" are there are 3 huge planets that are hardly used, and more or less they are about equal or less to the lobbies of PSO.

there are more i could say but the point is PSU is just overall a worse game than PSO in it's beginning phases and I'm not nostalgic for PSO. It just clearly has more and is better planned for quick play and finding parties. PSU's battle system and such may be better, but it completely lacks PSO's charm and overall gameplay. If you took PSU's game play and such and put PSO's game in there it'd be far better than both and it would be fully possible to do...

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-03-19 12:43, DurakkenX wrote:
everyone hates caves...even in the earliest days... you played forest, skip caves, played mines and ruins lol

PSU is great but realistically it is pretty much a step back from PSO

Rares? less to non-existent
game play? better
party players? more
level design? longer and what we asked for, but less charming
character design? better on a piece by piece basis, but in overall worse.
replayability? clearly worse....not as much to do
missions? PSU has less than when PSO first came out...and PSO's are better.
bosses? worse... PSU bosses are all the same.
party play? worse...harder to find a party
solo play? worse...both are unbalanced, but PSU seems to have the motto of "stop melee" for every enemy.
explorability? for however large the "cities" are there are 3 huge planets that are hardly used, and more or less they are about equal or less to the lobbies of PSO.

there are more i could say but the point is PSU is just overall a worse game than PSO in it's beginning phases and I'm not nostalgic for PSO. It just clearly has more and is better planned for quick play and finding parties. PSU's battle system and such may be better, but it completely lacks PSO's charm and overall gameplay. If you took PSU's game play and such and put PSO's game in there it'd be far better than both and it would be fully possible to do...



I'd love to see a PSO remake with the PSU engine.
(I'm not saying that we should turn PSU into PSO, just that I'd like to see it.)

[-Rune-]

I still don't see how people can say rares are none to non existent. You're comparing a game that had a spread of over 3 years, compared to something that has been out for a little over 3 months ._. they're not gonna give us 500+ weapons and armor to choose from in so little time. I'm sure with coming expanisions we'll have more weapons and such than pso had.

On a different swing, yes the pso music was extremely good, but I like psu as well. The only thing I really miss music wise is the calmness to battle effect changes in tracks. I think they did a good job, I would be so pissed if I bought this only to hear bad rehashes of an old game. Bruce/spaceship music was good surprise but if that were for every stage, I'd play with music at 0 vol xD

[PJ]

I still don't get see what people mean when they say PSO has more areas (ESPECIALLY when it first came out)

Forest 1, Forest 2, Caves 1, Caves 2, Caves 3, Mines 1, Mines 2, Ruins 1, Ruins 2, Ruins 3

Now, taking into account, not the blocks in missions, but places themselves. Let's do Parum.

Mad Creatures, Relics, De Ragan (Look, the names escape me right now), Mad Beasts, Lab, Train, Endrum Remnants, Denes Relics

Yeah, PSO has more places.

Then Parum. Barely.

Neudaiz, Moatoob and the Colony don't exist. Original PSO has more places.

EDIT: And even IF we count the 2 temples, 2 spaceships, 4 places in Gal De Val, and 2 Seabeds, and the 5 areas of Episode 4, PSU STILL has more. If you didn't get my hinting.

Also, why would am I even COUNTING Forest 1 and Forest 2 as a different place?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PJ on 2007-03-19 13:02 ]</font>

[DurakkenX]

rune...rares in PSO were available from the beginning and there were over 100 if i remember correctly. PSO at max from what hackers have found is like about 20 rares... and of those 20 almost all of them are locked.

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2007-03-19 12:43, DurakkenX wrote:
everyone hates caves...even in the earliest days... you played forest, skip caves, played mines and ruins lol

PSU is great but realistically it is pretty much a step back from PSO

Rares? less to non-existent
game play? better
party players? more
level design? longer and what we asked for, but less charming
character design? better on a piece by piece basis, but in overall worse.
replayability? clearly worse....not as much to do
missions? PSU has less than when PSO first came out...and PSO's are better.
bosses? worse... PSU bosses are all the same.
party play? worse...harder to find a party
solo play? worse...both are unbalanced, but PSU seems to have the motto of "stop melee" for every enemy.
explorability? for however large the "cities" are there are 3 huge planets that are hardly used, and more or less they are about equal or less to the lobbies of PSO.

there are more i could say but the point is PSU is just overall a worse game than PSO in it's beginning phases and I'm not nostalgic for PSO. It just clearly has more and is better planned for quick play and finding parties. PSU's battle system and such may be better, but it completely lacks PSO's charm and overall gameplay. If you took PSU's game play and such and put PSO's game in there it'd be far better than both and it would be fully possible to do...



Rares? Plenty of items people want but don't have, and it's a new game, with more to come
Character Design? I can't see how you can honestly say it's worse. More details, and more customization
Re-playability? There's more to do in this game, I don't see how you can not see that
Missions? More than just 4 different places to go, there's more to choose from, seriously
Bosses? More than 4 of them
Party Play? Better, make friends, you can have more people and work together well
Solo? You can bring 2 NPCs for support. Enemies only "stop melee" if you have low defense. High defense prevents you from being knocked over or even stunned during an attack.


Honestly PSU has more to do than PSO ever did at this point in it's release. Seriously, I don't get what people are complaining about. Let's compare a long term game, to a brand new one and complain it's not as expansive or some BS. If you love PSO so much, go play it and get out of my PSU.

THE JACKEL

[DurakkenX]

same reason you are counting the relics as different areas...all the relics are about 95% the same map wise...and MOBs are all taken from other areas or are used in all relics.

mad creatures and de ragan and several other areas are all pretty much the same as well. And i never said there was less...i said they were less charming. Nothing about the area is oh this is this level or this area. If I go to forest in PSO i know i'm in forest. If i go to relics on parum i could mistake it easilly for agata relics.

it is my opinion that PSO is the superior game if you take both games at their beginings... As for at it's end since PSU is still being made PSU could very possibly become the better of the two.

[Weeaboolits]

To be fair, we shouldn't be holding PSU up to ep 1&2 and later until after the AoI launch.

[Neggy]

I really like PSO, and I enjoy PSU as well. My only complaint about PSU is it's so bloody fast there's no time to talk. The social side of MMOs is what keeps me playin' in the long run Need to start setting up Vent servers for my parties, or somethin'.

And if they "reskin" PSO, and launch it as a PSU expansion, I will be stoked.

And omg it's Sekani! It's me, brockdn from OSG. Hi.

[RubyEclipse]

On 2007-03-19 12:59, DurakkenX wrote:
rune...rares in PSO were available from the beginning and there were over 100 if i remember correctly.

This is actually untrue. There were far less than a hundred rares, and to be totally fair, almost none of the rares even looked unique. The DB Sabers, Vjayas, Brionacs - they were all just the same weapon model that glowed from one color to another.

Akiko's frying pan, if memory serves, was actually one of the few rares in PSO Ver.1 that did have it's own unique setup. I'm not sure where people are getting the false idea that PSO came equipped on DC with all the oodles of ubers that we had on GC/Xbox, but the truth is we didn't even begin to see many of them until Version 2 finally launched.

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-03-19 13:27, RubyEclipse wrote:

On 2007-03-19 12:59, DurakkenX wrote:
rune...rares in PSO were available from the beginning and there were over 100 if i remember correctly.

This is actually untrue. There were far less than a hundred rares, and to be totally fair, almost none of the rares even looked unique. The DB Sabers, Vjayas, Brionacs - they were all just the same weapon model that glowed from one color to another.

Akiko's frying pan, if memory serves, was actually one of the few rares in PSO Ver.1 that did have it's own unique setup. I'm not sure where people are getting the false idea that PSO came equipped on DC with all the oodles of ubers that we had on GC/Xbox, but the truth is we didn't even begin to see many of them until Version 2 finally launched.



I didn't start until Ver. 2 ^_^'

[DurakkenX]

On 2007-03-19 13:17, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
Rares? Plenty of items people want but don't have, and it's a new game, with more to come
Character Design? I can't see how you can honestly say it's worse. More details, and more customization
Re-playability? There's more to do in this game, I don't see how you can not see that
Missions? More than just 4 different places to go, there's more to choose from, seriously
Bosses? More than 4 of them
Party Play? Better, make friends, you can have more people and work together well
Solo? You can bring 2 NPCs for support. Enemies only "stop melee" if you have low defense. High defense prevents you from being knocked over or even stunned during an attack.


Honestly PSU has more to do than PSO ever did at this point in it's release. Seriously, I don't get what people are complaining about. Let's compare a long term game, to a brand new one and complain it's not as expansive or some BS. If you love PSO so much, go play it and get out of my PSU.

THE JACKEL



rares as in weapons...like i said there just aren't as many.

character design... all the outfits in PSO fit together pretty much and while they were more limited they aren't almost all garbage. There are roughly 330 pieces of clothing, but almost all look like garbage and those that don't almost never work with other things. character create has the flaw of "proportion" not having any real variation. The hairstyles mostly look like garbage, and the accessories are all linked to hairstyles which is just a bad idea. Sure it's more overall variation, but i'd give up "eyelashes" for the facial scars and such on PSO.

missions... I'm talking actual missions...not jsut go kill things, There are very few...and not counting the story mode which isn't a mission the missions in PSO are superior.

with bosses...all psu bosses are the same... sure they have different skins but they all do the exact same thing.

party play... well it's pretty hard to make friends if you can't find people v.v

solo >.> NPCs are fairly worthless

[Weeaboolits]

the funniest mission for PSO, imo, was the one where you went back and forth between the guy and his wife, never leaving the P2 or killing a single enemy, it was like "I get paid for this?"

[DurakkenX]

On 2007-03-19 13:27, RubyEclipse wrote:

On 2007-03-19 12:59, DurakkenX wrote:
rune...rares in PSO were available from the beginning and there were over 100 if i remember correctly.

This is actually untrue. There were far less than a hundred rares, and to be totally fair, almost none of the rares even looked unique. The DB Sabers, Vjayas, Brionacs - they were all just the same weapon model that glowed from one color to another.



umm only the first star lvl rares got that make over. almost all rares other than the first ones had unique looks to them and even if you consider that

PSO month1 > PSU month1

[VanHalen]

On 2007-03-19 13:27, RubyEclipse wrote:

On 2007-03-19 12:59, DurakkenX wrote:
rune...rares in PSO were available from the beginning and there were over 100 if i remember correctly.

This is actually untrue. There were far less than a hundred rares, and to be totally fair, almost none of the rares even looked unique. The DB Sabers, Vjayas, Brionacs - they were all just the same weapon model that glowed from one color to another.

Akiko's frying pan, if memory serves, was actually one of the few rares in PSO Ver.1 that did have it's own unique setup. I'm not sure where people are getting the false idea that PSO came equipped on DC with all the oodles of ubers that we had on GC/Xbox, but the truth is we didn't even begin to see many of them until Version 2 finally launched.



That is true. Dragon Slayer was just a Gold,blue, and green glowing sword. The only items that really looked different on v1 were weapons that came from creatures for me.

Also seeing that this game as an expansion pack we can say that PSU now is like PSO v1.

[-Rune-]

On 2007-03-19 13:32, DurakkenX wrote:

On 2007-03-19 13:17, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
Rares? Plenty of items people want but don't have, and it's a new game, with more to come
Character Design? I can't see how you can honestly say it's worse. More details, and more customization
Re-playability? There's more to do in this game, I don't see how you can not see that
Missions? More than just 4 different places to go, there's more to choose from, seriously
Bosses? More than 4 of them
Party Play? Better, make friends, you can have more people and work together well
Solo? You can bring 2 NPCs for support. Enemies only "stop melee" if you have low defense. High defense prevents you from being knocked over or even stunned during an attack.


Honestly PSU has more to do than PSO ever did at this point in it's release. Seriously, I don't get what people are complaining about. Let's compare a long term game, to a brand new one and complain it's not as expansive or some BS. If you love PSO so much, go play it and get out of my PSU.

THE JACKEL



rares as in weapons...like i said there just aren't as many.

character design... all the outfits in PSO fit together pretty much and while they were more limited they aren't almost all garbage. There are roughly 330 pieces of clothing, but almost all look like garbage and those that don't almost never work with other things. character create has the flaw of "proportion" not having any real variation. The hairstyles mostly look like garbage, and the accessories are all linked to hairstyles which is just a bad idea. Sure it's more overall variation, but i'd give up "eyelashes" for the facial scars and such on PSO.

missions... I'm talking actual missions...not jsut go kill things, There are very few...and not counting the story mode which isn't a mission the missions in PSO are superior.

with bosses...all psu bosses are the same... sure they have different skins but they all do the exact same thing.

party play... well it's pretty hard to make friends if you can't find people v.v

solo >.> NPCs are fairly worthless





I swear you post just to start arguments or get people to hate you, everytime I see you post if it's not about women, you're bashing everything about PSU... it's really annoying, it's the reason i didn't back your "fashion contest".

I'm not even gonna bite on the rest of your comment.

[RubyEclipse]

On 2007-03-19 13:36, DurakkenX wrote:
umm only the first star lvl rares got that make over. almost all rares other than the first ones had unique looks to them and even if you consider that

PSO month1 > PSU month1



Please list these rares then, as I am quite certain that few rare weapons, if any, had unique designs on Dreamcast Ver.1. The PSO-world database should have all of them listed, so finding them should not be too difficult. The list will be nowhere near twenty; much less 100.

I am not here to debate whether PSU is greater than PSO upon launch, but rather to clarify a point that seems to be getting twisted upon it's usage. If you can indeed prove me wrong, then I welcome and will accept your point.

Edit:
Actually, I went ahead and did the digging to save everyone some time. This is the full list, according to the PSOW Database, of rares on PSOVer.1:

http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=listarticles&search=1

Now check out the DC pictures for the Varista. The Vise. The kaladbolg. The Dragon Slayer. The Club of Laconium. The Durandal.

You'll even notice that half the rares on that list have V1 listed, but only drop in Ultimate, meaning they couldn't have been there when the game launched.

Do you see my point? There were only a handful of true rares that looked unique upon PSO's launch, just as there are only a handful currently in PSU. That said, PSU may actually have more customization here, in the sense that different tiers and manufacturers also have unique looks to their own items.

Anyways, just wanted to get that out there and done with. You better believe I love PSO, but the bias in that argument was really skewing things.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RubyEclipse on 2007-03-19 13:57 ]</font>

[-Rune-]

It's sad you don't know the beginnings of PSO, there for you should stop speaking... the true "rares" of the PSO v.1 were the photon claw and the double saber, that was really it. I still have my strategy guide that shows em :/ Oh and the fake agito.

[Zorafim]

On 2007-03-19 13:17, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
Rares? Plenty of items people want but don't have, and it's a new game, with more to come

I can count one item that I want and can't have. So far, rares are limited to A rank units and random S rank weapons that will become common in a few updates. There's just nothing to hunt for at the moment, and anything that there is isn't worth the effort.
Eventually, 11*s will be easy to find, 10* will be annoyingly common, and only 12*s will be those things that people hunt for months. Each item will have one best model which you can't switch around for looks (most of the time), though at least you can customize your palette with the 6 best looking or most useful 12*s



Character Design? I can't see how you can honestly say it's worse. More details, and more customization

This is true, but many of the options you get are terrible or bland. Even with the limited options I had in PSO, I could make a character I liked. That's more than what I can say for PSU at the moment.



Re-playability? There's more to do in this game, I don't see how you can not see that

I can't find anything to do myself, really. In PSO, I could go through all the missions until I got to a high enough level to hunt a rare. Here, due to poor mission reward distribution, I'm stuck grinding the same area. And each area has less character than each PSO area, making it feel like a grind instead of exploration.



Missions? More than just 4 different places to go, there's more to choose from, seriously

This is true, there are alot more areas to choose from. It feels like there's less due to the fact that it's more difficult to get to the area that you want to be in, so everyone just picks a place to stay and grinds there. Also, many of the areas look so similar that they almost count as the same area.

Off the top of my head, there's a Parum outsidish area, the train, the Parum insidish area, the relics, the Neudaiz outisidish area, the Neudaiz island area, the temple, the Moatoob outside area, the moatoob canyon area, and the moatoob inside area.

That's around 11 areas out so far, unless I missed a few. Unlike PSO, in which each level had multiple areas, PSU has multiple levels with the same level. PSO EP.1 had 10 areas out in its four levels, at least making the game feel diverse.



Bosses? More than 4 of them

Dragon type thing, Demon type thing, Robot type thing, Ebil God type thing. That's four. The reskins fight nearly the same as their counterparts, practically making them the same fight. Beyond that, each fight takes less brain use than any PSO counterpart.



Party Play? Better, make friends, you can have more people and work together well

Making friends to form groups is a solution to a problem, the problem being the fact that it's alot more difficult to form a party than in PSO. In PSO, you could choose from every party in the server from one desk. Here, you have to go to a desk before seeing if there's even a party that you like there.



Solo? You can bring 2 NPCs for support.
NPCs help, but they still hardly do anything. Due to their lack of healing, you can't even bring them along for fear of them dieing. If you don't mind a low rank, then you have meatbags to hide behind to help not die. I'd still much rather have one decent player than two NPCs.



Enemies only "stop melee" if you have low defense. High defense prevents you from being knocked over or even stunned during an attack.

I have been knocked up, down, back and flinched after taking four damage. Four. Dodging isn't a practical option most of time due to lag or being in the middle of a PA when the attack comes. There's no way to end the PA fast enough to dodge. Most of the time, it's just better to hope that the PA goes through instead of hoping to dodge an attack.
Then there are enemies which are immune to flich parts of PAs, and only flinch if knocked back/up/down. It's faster to recover from a flinch than recover after doing an attack that knocks down, and most of the time it's not easy to get to knockdowns (often, enemies knock you down before you can get to the second part of your PA).
There are alot of enemies that hunters just can't effectively get at, and most damage comes from hunters. Worst yet is the fact that most anti-hunter mobs are the big mobs, which are harder to kill anyway without the knockdowns/melee resistance.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2007-03-19 13:57, Zorafim wrote:
Eventually, 11*s will be easy to find, 10* will be annoyingly common, and only 12*s will be those things that people hunt for months.

And then they will rant here about how it broke and how they wasted half a year for it to break. Then people will point and laugh and an equal number will say "That sucks, i'm sorry".

-shrugs-

[DurakkenX]

Since we're concerned with the number of rares at the start of both games...

PSU had 0 and it's like the 5 or so months since launch... I know of only a few rares out thus far...

so...lavis, agito, double saber, photon claw, flower bouquet, magazine, spread needle, nei's claw, sonic knuckles, egg blaster, oraotiagito, orotiagito...

that's 12 i can name off hand... and no PSOW's database is of no use because they don't have any old pics.

of course there is stag cutlery and twin brand but they are roughly the same as doublesaber. I can't remember anymore of the name but even with those few there are still more in PSO than there is in PSU

[Sekani]

On 2007-03-19 14:06, DurakkenX wrote:
Since we're concerned with the number of rares at the start of both games...

PSU had 0 and it's like the 5 or so months since launch... I know of only a few rares out thus far...

so...lavis, agito, double saber, photon claw, flower bouquet, magazine, spread needle, nei's claw, sonic knuckles, egg blaster, oraotiagito, orotiagito...

that's 12 i can name off hand... and no PSOW's database is of no use because they don't have any old pics.

of course there is stag cutlery and twin brand but they are roughly the same as doublesaber. I can't remember anymore of the name but even with those few there are still more in PSO than there is in PSU


Most of those rares weren't out (unhacked anyway) until the late stages of PSO Ep. 1's life, and a couple I don't think actually existed legitly at all.

I really don't think you know nearly as much about PSO as you claim to, or need to in order to continue this discussion.

But to be fair, PSU did have exactly zero "rares" available the minute it was released. Not sure how that matters now, but whatever.

[Sekani]

On 2007-03-19 12:16, Ronin_Cooper wrote:


Anyway, as I see it, the music in PSU isn't really that bad, per se, but you must admit that a lot of it is quite... forgettable... And though I love Raffon's jaunty tunes, I can't help but long for the atmospheric music of PSO, especially the boss tunes, I mean, when I fight De Ragan, I don't even hear the music, it's so forgettable that my brain just kinda' tunes it out, what we need is something like IDOLA Have The Devine Blade, I loved how it continuously built up never reaching a climax.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ronin_Cooper on 2007-03-19 12:17 ]</font>

I completely agree with this person. The boss themes we have in PSU are the worst part of the soundtrack. I didn't even know De Ragan had music until I heard an MP3 of it somewhere else.

[RubyEclipse]

and no PSOW's database is of no use because they don't have any old pics.
PSOW has one of the most comprehensive item databases anywhere on the internet. While they do not have pictures for every single item from DC, they certainly have a lot, and it's much more reliable than our memory, I can tell you that. =P

You are totally correct about the Lavis, Agito, Orotiagito, Claw, Bouquet, Needle, Sonic Knuckles, and Egg Blaster. (The Game Magazine, though, didn't arrive until Version 2.)

Even taking that list and adding on the Frying Pan, S-Beat and P-arm blades, The Sorcerer's cane, sting tip, Heaven Punisher and the Holy Ray, the tally doesn't even reach the 25 mark.

I suppose my point is not that one game totally outweighs the other, but simply that taking either stance is a moot point to argue, in that both games have their own unique weapons of varying rarity, and that neither truly dominates the other.

Many of us may view PSODC as "The good ol' days", but all too often we seem to forget just how bad NOL, PK, FSOD and the rest truly were back then... There are definitely lots of factors out there; I'd suggest just giving up the pointless arguing and playing whichever game people like better.

The end. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[DurakkenX]

lavis, sonic knuckles, and egg blaster all came out early but weren't released for the NA/EU versions because they were prizes in the japanese ver... it was still possible to get them legitly if you traded for them and those contests were all during the early life of PSO...

flower bouquet was a reward for a few quests during valentines i think which was available near the beginning of it's release

the magazine i forget how that was gotten or if it was released at all in any way... All the others were available from the beginning.

[DurakkenX]

game magazine was in v1 as i never played v2 online and i used it a lot for fun and it wasn't a banned weapon either.

PSO is superior to PSU. Mainly because of even though it was limited it was still charming and had a lot more human feel to them. PSU isn't a bad game...it's just not as good as PSO was and prolly couldn't stand on it's own.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-03-19 14:35, DurakkenX wrote:
PSO is superior to PSU.


Server populations indicate otherwise.

[Parn]

The game magazine was definitely not in version 1. The data is not on the disc. The game magazine was introduced in version 2, along with a lot of other weapons.

[ljkkjlcm9]

I really don't get where people are saying 10* are going to be common. We have threads about people finally proving a HALAROD exists, which we have known to be out for months. People aren't having an easy time finding these 10* weapons, and I doubt that will change much. If you're on PC/PS2, sure you see more Crea Doubles and Halarods, but we know most are hacked. If that's prevented in the future, these rare weapons will stay rare, so idk what you're talking about.

THE JACKEL

[Sekani]

On 2007-03-19 14:55, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
I really don't get where people are saying 10* are going to be common. We have threads about people finally proving a HALAROD exists, which we have known to be out for months. People aren't having an easy time finding these 10* weapons, and I doubt that will change much. If you're on PC/PS2, sure you see more Crea Doubles and Halarods, but we know most are hacked. If that's prevented in the future, these rare weapons will stay rare, so idk what you're talking about.

THE JACKEL


This is assuming that newer, higher level missions will give more of a chance to find those super-rares. Me/Quick is one example, or the rumored HIVE S2 mission (can't remember the name).

[Pengfishh]

All I really know is that PSU is the only video game I want to play. I sold everything else today. I'm too old for this shit anyway, but I loves me some PSU and that's all that matters, OKAY?!

[DurakkenX]

On 2007-03-19 14:41, Parn wrote:
The game magazine was definitely not in version 1. The data is not on the disc. The game magazine was introduced in version 2, along with a lot of other weapons.



then i prolly remember it from xbox ver ^.^ i dunno i had like 900 items on there it's hard to remember...

as far as population count... well at max PSU if you count both maxes of the servers...it's about 7000. and that's not very accurate since the pop has shifted servers...

PSO has had over-population to the point that when all the servers were open they still couldn't hold all the poeople.

[Pengfishh]

On 2007-03-19 15:48, DurakkenX wrote:

PSO has had over-population to the point that when all the servers were open they still couldn't hold all the poeople.



PSO was never that populated. Not ever.

[Saphion]

On 2007-03-19 14:40, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-03-19 14:35, DurakkenX wrote:
PSO is superior to PSU.


Server populations indicate otherwise.



I'm sorry, but this argument is null and void.

You cannot use server population between what is essentially a seven year old (is it?) game with one that isn't even one year old yet as an indication of superiority.

Although DurakkenX's statement is opinion.

I may not like PSU compared to PSO, but neither is superior. They're both unique products, and it's just that PSO appeals to me more for several reasons. I also understand that PSU may appeal to other people for the same reason.

[Saphion]

On 2007-03-19 15:53, Pengfishh wrote:

On 2007-03-19 15:48, DurakkenX wrote:

PSO has had over-population to the point that when all the servers were open they still couldn't hold all the poeople.



PSO was never that populated. Not ever.



I don't remember that happening either.

Although I remember the GameCube PSO as always having a decent sized population, despite the fact the broadband and modem adapters were complete buggers to find and sometimes set up.

It looks even more impressive when you compare them to the PS2/PC servers.

[DurakkenX]

it didn't happen all the time but it did happen...

[PJ]

PSO's BEST population was about 2000 on PSO GC. DC might have been better (I doubt it though), but PSU definately and EASILY wins.

And all this other, "Factual stuff," Durakken, I'm finding it pretty hard to believe you even own a copy of Phantasy Star Online. Version 1.

EDIT:


On 2007-03-19 13:20, DurakkenX wrote:
same reason you are counting the relics as different areas...all the relics are about 95% the same map wise...and MOBs are all taken from other areas or are used in all relics.

OH! I got ya.

Oh, you don't mean what they did in Forest 1! When you went to FOrest 2, and the enemies were the same? Kinda like that right?

Or when you went to Caves, and then to Caves 2, and Caves 3, and the enemies were the same throughout, right?

Or when you went to the Mines, then Mines 2, and the enemies were the same? Good times.

And let's not forget Ruins 1, going to Ruins 2, and Ruins 3 with, yes, the same enemies.

Point taken, I hope.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PJ on 2007-03-19 17:51 ]</font>

[Alisha]

actually the original version of pso had a quite large large population in the early going. i remember being forced into oberon 3 once because 1 and 2 were completely full. try to remember pso ver1 was free to play online. dont quote me on this but i remember sega boasting it had 500,000 registered users.

[Vay]

I'm not nostalgic for PSO

Hate to nit-pick, but you're telling me you're not nostalgic, Durakken, with all the stuff you boast in your signature? Haha.

[Parn]

PSO on Dreamcast was definitely the series at the height of its popularity. Oberon was almost packed to the brim, and every other server had blocks 1-3 fairly populated at the game's peak. There was absolutely nothing else like the game at the time, and it being free to play online had legions of people playing each night.

PSU had a decent launch, but it definitely didn't hit the numbers PSO on Dreamcast did, and definitely not now with a lot of people having moved on. The expansion will bring some people back, but I think it's safe to say that the game will remain fairly unnoticed from this point on, heh.

[DurakkenX]

On 2007-03-19 20:38, Vay wrote:

I'm not nostalgic for PSO

Hate to nit-pick, but you're telling me you're not nostalgic, Durakken, with all the stuff you boast in your signature? Haha.



i was bored and wanted a sig...but didn't have photoshop...now i'm too lazy to remove it ^.^

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-03-19 23:52, DurakkenX wrote:

On 2007-03-19 20:38, Vay wrote:

I'm not nostalgic for PSO

Hate to nit-pick, but you're telling me you're not nostalgic, Durakken, with all the stuff you boast in your signature? Haha.



i was bored and wanted a sig...but didn't have photoshop...now i'm too lazy to remove it ^.^



http://www.freewebs.com/ronin_cooper/PSU/durakkensig.gif
Happy birthday

[Saphion]

What's the PC/PS2 server population like at the moment?

[Saphion]

...anyone...?

I'm thinking of coming back again (for the 60th time) because although I have a long list of annoyances with the game compared to PSO, I just can't keep the heck away. (What on earth is wrong with me?)
I'll probably be starting from scratch too.

[DurakkenX]

about 1k no more than 2k though... uni 2 is usually filled to max during prime time and all the other unis have a 1/2 star which means 1-100 people per uni...

[Saphion]

Just so I know, both Uni 1 and Uni 2 are full, right? Not just Uni 2?

Cheers for the info!

[DurakkenX]

only uni 2

[Saphion]

...huh? Why isn't anyone on Uni 1 then?

Is it contaminated?

[DurakkenX]

hackers placed bananas all over the floor and if you go into uni 1 you will slip and fall for 3 hours straight...and then when you log off and stand to go somewhere in real life you will fall everytime you try to get up for the rest of the day >.>

[Saphion]

Eh?

Seriously though, why isn't anyone on Uni 1? I thought the hacker thing was dealt with?

[DurakkenX]

basically because it has the most population at any given time people go there... it just happened that way...no real reason for it ^.^ when there was server problems people migrated to it and just haven't moved back thas all

[Saphion]

Oh. Fair enough! Thanks again for the info!

[PJ]

The REAL reason why no one's on Uni 1 is because that was the first universe that crashed, when we had a series of universe crashes, so people moved to Universe 2.

In that series though, even Uni 2 crashed, but they just stayed there.

[Zorafim]

On 2007-03-19 14:55, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
I really don't get where people are saying 10* are going to be common. We have threads about people finally proving a HALAROD exists, which we have known to be out for months. People aren't having an easy time finding these 10* weapons, and I doubt that will change much. If you're on PC/PS2, sure you see more Crea Doubles and Halarods, but we know most are hacked. If that's prevented in the future, these rare weapons will stay rare, so idk what you're talking about.

THE JACKEL




Varista. 'nuff said.

[Finalzone]

On 2007-03-16 11:25, STARSBarry wrote:
if your looking at why the game gets worse reviews, less popularity etc, its due to SEGA charging money for bassicaly a futuristic Diablo 2 in 3D and for that it will never ever be as populer or as widely accepted as PSO for the dreamcast was (lets face it given the choice would you play PSO v2 for dreamcast FOR FREE or PSOBB with an extra chapter with a price tag added?)



Bandwith is not cheap. Maintaining the huge amount of servers is enormous price side. Why there is no longer company that provides free ISP? . Transferring the amount of data in 3D is more complex than 2D counterpart (Diablo 2 is 2D). That's where some people simply don't get it. For today standard, paying US$9.99 is an excellent price. Time to deal with reality.

[Finalzone]

On 2007-03-19 12:43, DurakkenX wrote:
everyone hates caves...even in the earliest days... you played forest, skip caves, played mines and ruins lol

PSU is great but realistically it is pretty much a step back from PSO

Rares? less to non-existent
Which is a good thing IMHO because you will have to make them using board. Rare = high value. Deal with it.


party players? more
What do you mean? 6 players is quite reasonable and betten than the previous 4. Unless you talk about making a possible alliance as seen on FFXI. Then you have to deal with lag issues.


level design? longer and what we asked for, but less charming
character design? better on a piece by piece basis, but in overall worse.
I have to disagree on that one. Since the character creator is utterly superior to PSO, only the creativity of player is the limit. In that case, it seems to be an indication about the lack of creativity of your part. New clothes will come and I won't be surprised there will be even boards to create your own and sell it in the expansion.


replayability? clearly worse....not as much to do
missions? PSU has less than when PSO first came out...and PSO's are better.
Hunting for material to synthetize, grinding and selling item with shop room add replayability. It will be a matter of time new missions will added.



bosses? worse... PSU bosses are all the same.
Yet challenging, seeing a lvl60 owned by Grene Pete Type S robot.


party play? worse...harder to find a party
Looks like you were unlucky.


solo play? worse...both are unbalanced, but PSU seems to have the motto of "stop melee" for every enemy.
Translation: you suck.



explorability? for however large the "cities" are there are 3 huge planets that are hardly used, and more or less they are about equal or less to the lobbies of PSO.
Patience. PSO lobby is boring than PSU in its first version (Dreamcast which I own and sometime play).