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Criss
Mar 22, 2007, 11:36 PM
I've been doing more and more S rank missions, and those PA frags stacking up in my inventory made me wonder what UPA I should get for my guntecher. I use mostly bows, twin handguns and cards, and alternately xbow and machine gun.

So I was wondering if anyone could spare the info for the Ultimate bullet PAs of these weapons along with some recommendations on which ones might be the most useful, and if there might be any TECHs that don't require TP to be useful that could be nice on a GT.

Thanks. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Akaimizu
Mar 22, 2007, 11:49 PM
If you use Twin Handguns, Twin MayaLee is a very good Support Bullet. It basically adds the Defense Down effect of Zalure but with a 100% success rate if you actually hit the monster, with it. That is, the damage should be better than 0 from the bullet, signifying a hit. If it does, that monster is affected and will get that status effect. Any monster outside of a true Boss (The ones with intros and the special teleporter to reach) can and will get affected by this, even if your bullet is level 1.

However, at level 11 and 21, the Defense Down effect is increased like it would for a Zalure spell of the same level. So in this case, you'll probably drop your actual Zalure spell for this. It does give a Guntecher the powerful Zalure they can't get via technique casting. The best thing about it, is that it's on Twin Handguns for fast distribution at even long range. No need to risk running in to apply Zalure anymore. You already know, as a guntecher, how much it is both a thrill and a tension getter just running in for close range (level 10) applied debuffs. Or any kind of Level 10 techs (outside the nice longer range of Reverser) when you need to apply it within a battle. Twin MayaLee gives you that reprieve that not everything, in debuffs, should be as much risk to life and limb.

I haven't really tried out the other Ultimate PAs, so I'll leave it to others to fully explain their use.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-03-22 21:54 ]</font>

Jey
Mar 23, 2007, 12:05 AM
Twin Mayalee isn't 100% proc - you'll mostly see it fail to proc occassionally on lv80+ mobs right now. It's close enough though. It's one of the best fragment PAs available imo.

The bow PA sucks, don't even think of it. The card PA is useless for all the jobs that can use it, because all of those jobs can use Resta. Same goes for Handgun, though it seems great for fortegunner and protranser.

Rifle is good for botkilling, i.e. Temple S, Desert Goliath S, Train Rescue S... I don't know whether you'll want to skill it up to 21+ though.

Crossbow I dont have personally (25 frags to go) but I hear it's great damage even at full HP.

Laser I also don't have personally but I have Assault Crush 30 and if straight-line knockback works the same way as Assault's 3rd combo... ... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

None of the available technics are worth investing in as GT, unless you really want Giresta to raise people with.

Vay
Mar 23, 2007, 12:13 AM
Crossbow is omgawesome. I highly recommend it.

Machinegun is VERY nice in certain situations, mostly for occupying big targets, b ut can also be used to toss little guys in the air if you're good at movement and maneuvering (PA has 1% accuracy, so you have to hit from behind to get the knockup effect).

Everything else has been covered. Enjoy!

(Jey, I also noticed that sometimes Twins doesn't proc on the bigger creatures right away, MAINLY Polhavra's when they have def buff up... takes a few shots to register the debuff, but really, that's never a problem with the rate of fire of twins.)

Jey
Mar 23, 2007, 12:26 AM
Ohyeah, I forgot about mechguns. They're nice for eliciting a laugh as you herd a jarba across a room. Hard to get around smaller mobs due to the client-side mob movement in this game.

As for Twin Mayalee, I've noticed it not proccing first time mainly on shielded mobs in SEED S and yeah those Polies in Lab S2. Second shot usually gets it of course.

Well fux, I want Zagenga now *shakes fist at Mayalee Hit*

Akaimizu
Mar 23, 2007, 12:30 AM
Yep. I also noticed the few creatures that may 1 or 2 time resist a MayaLee debuff. Generally, I think it might do with a certain defense marking on the beast. There are times you may need to hit a particular armored or particular big monsters 2 or 3 times for the proc to register. Still, they are few, and the proc gets on them fast enough. It's not like every other status effect, where you can't guarrantee it landing within your first 3 attacks no matter what rank that non-actual boss monster is.

At this point, I pretty much start every battle with a good spread of Twin MayaLee, on the foes.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-03-22 22:32 ]</font>

Criss
Mar 23, 2007, 12:51 AM
Thanks for the info! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I think I'll get Twin Mayalee first, and then either xbow or machinegun when I ever get enough for a second one. I assume it doesn't have an element, but how many PA frags are needed for Twinnies and what's the PP cost at lv 1/11+/21+?

Jey
Mar 23, 2007, 12:56 AM
On 2007-03-22 22:51, Criss wrote:
Thanks for the info! :) I think I'll get Twin Mayalee first, and then either xbow or machinegun when I ever get enough for a second one. I assume it doesn't have an element, but how many PA frags are needed for Twinnies and what's the PP cost at lv 1/11+/21+?



Uhh, 60 frags and 22/26/30pp a round for GT/FG. Just grind up a couple Ryo-Rayratores to dedicate to Twin Mayalee and you're good to go.

imfanboy
Mar 23, 2007, 01:04 AM
I'd definitely endorse Mayalee Prism for a Guntecher - it's one of the best available, hands down. It is, indeed, an adequate replacement for the grenade launcher that we don't get.

It causes knockback on small-medium enemies and staggers larger enemies; it also fires fast enough that you can keep the stagger going on many of the larger enemies. While it does have a fairly large hit on accuracy (46% at first level), GT ATA is generally good enough that you shouldn't worry about it, particularly if you move in from the back or the sides.

HOWEVER, this is a SITUATIONAL PA, not a spammin' PA. It doesn't deal all that much damage; instead, what you should use it on are enemies which are more dangerous standing than they are on the ground like big mobs of buffed Vandas, Gohmons, worms, or Volfu, or to knock flying enemies to the ground so that hunters can get a shot at 'em, or to keep Jarbas staggered so they can't dambarta the poor hunters into submission.

MT7218
Mar 23, 2007, 01:31 AM
Yer a Beast Guntecher, right? Might I recommend trying the Shotgun ult. PA? May not fit in your normal weapon choises as a GT, but it puts an accuracy/evasion debuff on enemies, much like Twin Mayalee debuffs enemy defense. As it can hit multiple enemies from a decent distance, it can be a bit more effective than the crappy level 1-10 Zodeel can ever be for a GT. Not sure if when leveled properly it acts like Twin Maylee and the debuff SE goes up when it hits level 11 and 21, but if it does, that's another advantage it gets. Considering that you are a beast, regardless of your class, the evade debuff will come in handy because of your raically low ATA.

AC9breaker
Mar 23, 2007, 01:39 AM
Chousei-Sou....

Avoid this PA at all costs...

Anger rising...

Syl
Mar 23, 2007, 01:43 AM
Man, Twin Mayalee also does really decent damage. I have mine at lvl 28, and it's like at 163% ATP >.>

A2K
Mar 23, 2007, 01:49 AM
Chousei-sou looks like it might be useful for someone who only wants (or has room for) a single, versatile bow bullet, although if this were the case I can't fathom why it slows down the bow attack rate. Does it knockdown? Does it penetrate? What is so special and "ultimate" about it? If the answer to both is these is no, why does it cost 75 PA Fragments?

Weakness
Mar 23, 2007, 02:16 AM
On 2007-03-22 23:49, A2K wrote:
Chousei-sou looks like it might be useful for someone who only wants (or has room for) a single, versatile bow bullet, although if this were the case I can't fathom why it slows down the bow attack rate. Does it knockdown? Does it penetrate? What is so special and "ultimate" about it? If the answer to both is these is no, why does it cost 75 PA Fragments?



It doesn't knock down/back/up and all bow bullets penetrate defense. Ultimately... it is just green. It has very high ATA though, which is nice for ForteTechers I guess. For the most part I found this one totally worthless. The dark type bullet gets 165% ATP at level 30, which is only 5% less then this one. Adding in the staggering 30% elemental bonus bows get at 21+ an elemental shot can do far more damage.

Everything, outside the crossbow, has already been discussed.

I'll be getting the crossbow PA soon enough (taking a small break, ;;>.> playing Tales of the Abyss). So soon as I get it, level it, and see how it works out I will give my opinion on it.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Anyone who has it and cares to give an opinion on it, I would gladly like to read about it.

SolomonGrundy
Mar 23, 2007, 02:20 AM
because it's meant for warteckers who need the accuracy bump, and probably don't mind the PP cost or te slwo rate?

I'm guessing here...

A2K
Mar 23, 2007, 02:23 AM
By penetrate I meant multiple targets--as in along the lines of Megid/Zonde/Barta/spears/laser cannons. It seems so pointless to have it cost 75 if it doesn't really do anything. Ah well.

Weakness
Mar 23, 2007, 02:28 AM
On 2007-03-23 00:23, A2K wrote:
By penetrate I meant multiple targets--as in along the lines of Megid/Zonde/Barta/spears/laser cannons. It seems so pointless to have it cost 75 if it doesn't really do anything. Ah well.



Ahh, I didn't understand what you meant by penetrate, but no it doesn't do that.

And saying it does nothing isn't true, at level 30 it has 170% ATP bonus as well as (may be wrong on this one) 135% ATA bonus. So it is indeed powerful... but it isn't anything special seeing as the "strong" bullets (Fire, Earth, Dark) are only 5% below the ATP.

ayrista
Mar 23, 2007, 07:48 AM
i want to get the crossbow bullet, but lvling the crossbow bullets is brutal. Does anyone know if the ult bullet for crossbow lvls quicker?

ljkkjlcm9
Mar 23, 2007, 07:53 AM
I just recently got the X-bow bullet, and no, it doesn't seem to level faster. I have 6 of the 9* crossbow though, and I'm going to spam it all Labs S2 long!!!!

THE JACKEL

Midicronica
Mar 23, 2007, 07:59 AM
I, too, am disappointed by Chousei-sou. I bought it just to finish off all the bow PAs, but I was hoping there would be something good about it that most people failed to mention. Sadly, there isn't. I'm still training it to get it's lvl up and I'll probably get it to 21 and stop using, because I just don't care enough to train it to 30. Any one tried using it on S-Rank De Ragnus to see how much better the damage is? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif You know, since he is non elemental and all..

I throw my full support behind Twin Mayalee, a definite good ult PA for Guntechers and FighGunners (when the techer is debuffing.) Not only is it a benefit to the team, but it also seems to take a load off the techer. Most parties I'm in only cast zalure, because the others really aren't needed unless we're fighting Mizura.

Mayalee Fury is great for stun-locking large enemies and having your hunter friends pound away on it. It pushes the enemy A LOT, but once you get it up against the wall (or corner if you're in lab.. >_>;) it's fair game for hunters. It's really nice to use on the annoying Gol Dova in Mad Beast S, when he is stun-locked he dosen't move forward, so again good for allowing hunters to move in and shell out the damage.

That's my two cents.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shadow_Moses on 2007-03-23 06:01 ]</font>

pikachief
Mar 23, 2007, 08:03 AM
On 2007-03-22 22:05, Jey wrote:
Twin Mayalee isn't 100% proc - you'll mostly see it fail to proc occassionally on lv80+ mobs right now. It's close enough though. It's one of the best fragment PAs available imo.

The bow PA sucks, don't even think of it. The card PA is useless for all the jobs that can use it, because all of those jobs can use Resta. Same goes for Handgun, though it seems great for fortegunner and protranser.

Rifle is good for botkilling, i.e. Temple S, Desert Goliath S, Train Rescue S... I don't know whether you'll want to skill it up to 21+ though.

Crossbow I dont have personally (25 frags to go) but I hear it's great damage even at full HP.

Laser I also don't have personally but I have Assault Crush 30 and if straight-line knockback works the same way as Assault's 3rd combo... ... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

None of the available technics are worth investing in as GT, unless you really want Giresta to raise people with.



my twin mayalee is 100% unles i miss the enemy! unless i have some sort of SUPER SHOT!

Midicronica
Mar 23, 2007, 08:04 AM
On 2007-03-23 05:53, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
I just recently got the X-bow bullet, and no, it doesn't seem to level faster. I have 6 of the 9* crossbow though, and I'm going to spam it all Labs S2 long!!!!

THE JACKEL



Gib moar info on Xbow PA. I've been comtemplating getting this one for sometime now. I've just hesitated because of lack of info.

Vay
Mar 23, 2007, 09:09 AM
I've talked about and raved about the Ult Crossbow on numerous threads so far, but I guess one more time can't hurt. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

The whole idea of this, is the more you get hurt, the stronger it becomes. So, it's at its weakest when you're at full HP. However, even at its weakest state, it's still stronger than elemental bullets.
Also, be warned that the range on this is a bit shorter than your normal xbow skills, but it's not much of a problem and you can adjust to the shorter range within the first few shots of the weapon.

Level 1-10, it bites, just like all crossbow bullets. Levels slow as dirt, costs twice as much as a normal crossbow bullet at this level (12 PP). The power bonus is either barely noticeable or non-existant at this level, pretty much.

Level 11-20, it gets a slight boost from the HP Modifier effect, shoots two bullets, and still levels omgslow. It's decidedly better thatn 1-10, but it's still not very impressive. I kept pushing on because I already know how rewarding all the other crossbows are at 21+, so I kept my hopes up, grinding away...

Level 21+, it's pretty amazing. 3 bullet spread, 20 PP a shot (as GT/FG, 16 as fG), and the HP boost effect is really noticeable. Without shifta or zalure, on my fG, I can notice crossbow bullets doing about 80 more damage per bolt when I'm in the yellow. WITH level 2 shifta (Through atagarides), and with level 3 Zalure (through Twin PA), it's not uncommon for me to hit for 430+ a normal hit on bullets when I'm even at just half HP (I take hits for the hell of it just to power it up), and I've seen crits in the mid 600's. So, in a one second burst, I can deal about 1800+ damage. Pretty sweet, I'd say.

One more thing, the attack/acc modifier on this shot is insane, too. I can't log into the game right now but I believe it's somewhere around 162/72 at level 27.

ljkkjlcm9
Mar 23, 2007, 10:41 AM
I'm a fighgunner and can only get the Xbow to 20 however.... which is sad, but still a good weapon. Despite what people say, it's basically equal to a one handed twin handgun

THE JACKEL

Akaimizu
Mar 23, 2007, 10:49 AM
More like a one-handed shotgun. Why other people can't say it's equivalent is due to the limited range of Xbow, the requirement of real close range to hit with multiple bullets per shot, it's slower firing rate, and the fact you can't use the aiming mode or shoot high targets with it. Almost precisely the shotgun's qualities.

On a Figunner, though. It's not quite as far off, when it comes to mid-range effectiveness. With Level 20 limits, it procs SE very similar to a Twin Handgun at that range. It's the 21+ of Twin handguns that normally push its rather amazing ability to quickly land statuses on a group. Though I have to admit, the way a 11-20 Xbow shoots its bullets is rather fun to work with. Especially when you get really used to the exact firing pattern it shoots. It's kind of like aiming a funnel.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-03-23 08:51 ]</font>

Vay
Mar 23, 2007, 06:04 PM
21+ Twins don't land statuses any more quickly than a level 1 handgun. The only increases as you level Twins are ATP/ACC, and elemental %.

And, I prefer level 11-20 xbow over Twin Handgun as well, as GT, FG, or even fG. They're very fun to aim with 11-20, though. It at least keeps things interesting. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Criss
Mar 23, 2007, 06:44 PM
On 2007-03-23 16:04, Vay wrote:
21+ Twins don't land statuses any more quickly than a level 1 handgun. The only increases as you level Twins are ATP/ACC, and elemental %.
Not quite. Any level of Twins apply SEs more easily than normal handgun. Twins fire two bullets per shot, and each of those two bullets has as much chance to inflict a SE than the normal handgun's single bullet. So technically, it's twice as easier to inflict SEs with twins than it is with single handgun. And as far as I know, SE levels affect status length and damage from DoT, not the chance of the SE being applied.

Syl
Mar 23, 2007, 06:45 PM
Actually, to clarify what Vay said, Twin Mayalee only increases in SE lvl (up to lvl 3 DEF down), ATP/ATA %, but the SE's application rate is always the same.

And I just got Twin Mayalee to lvl 29 today (should hit lvl 30 by tonight), the ATP is at 168%, so I'm assuming it will be 170% at lvl 30. That's pretty good. Since it's DEF down lvl 3, it usually adds 30 dmg per hit. If I get buffed, I do about 300 per bullet (so 600~ per shot). And since it's pretty rapid fire, I can do a bunch of DPS.

Ledin
Mar 23, 2007, 07:06 PM
On 2007-03-23 07:09, Vay wrote:
I've talked about and raved about the Ult Crossbow on numerous threads so far, but I guess one more time can't hurt. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

The whole idea of this, is the more you get hurt, the stronger it becomes. So, it's at its weakest when you're at full HP. However, even at its weakest state, it's still stronger than elemental bullets.
I don't know whether this has something to do with my puny Newman Guntecher HP, but the damage increase is pitiful for me even when I'm at 10% total HP. Also, I noticed that the proper elemental bullets always outdamage the ultimate bullets despite having a lower Attack% -- tested with level 30 Chousei-sou, Yak Zagenga, and Twin Mayalee.

I got them all (along with Killer Shot) just to have them, but I won't be using Chousei-sou and Yak Zagenga anymore now that they're capped.

Chousei-sou is just so ridiculously useless unless you're a Beast Fortetecher trying to hit a boss 30 levels above you with a bow. I could maybe imagine using this one on De Ragnus or other mobs with no element...if not for the other penalties: Slow firing rate, high PP cost, no status effect at level 4 (which, for me as a Guntecher, is the main duty I use a bow for).

Yak Zagenga is not quite as useless, but comes close for me. It's a joy spreading level 3 status effects on groups of mobs -- freeze, shock, virus, silence, oh my! You lose this with the ultimate bullet and "gain" a higher PP cost and lower damage (compared to the proper elemental bullet) unless you're at low HP.

Twin Mayalee is a godsend for me. Very reliable debuffing on par with that of a Fortetecher. When we eventually get the as of yet unreleased crossbow bullet we'll be able to deal level 3 Jellen + Zalure, yay! Don't use this one for damage if you have the proper elemental bullet, it will do less and burn your PP much faster.

That's only my opinion based on my own experience. The best way for you to find out if a bullet PA is for you or not is to try it out. Getting PA fragments is a lot easier with the addition of S2 missions anyway. In closure, I'd like to state that I believe all ultimate bullets are highly situational and not intended for constant usage.

Akaimizu
Mar 24, 2007, 01:05 AM
On 2007-03-23 16:04, Vay wrote:
21+ Twins don't land statuses any more quickly than a level 1 handgun. The only increases as you level Twins are ATP/ACC, and elemental %.


That combination probably is exactly why I end up seeing a difference in my speed of landing procs at higher levels. I tend to attribute ACC simply because it's making sure they hit more, with their speed and thus proc by the statistic of quantity.

The big difference, still, is reach. I hopefully picked my words, because normally I always explain the speed of proc for its range.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-03-23 23:09 ]</font>