Higher % for their weapons is a good thing?

[HerdsmanOfYrr]

Why do people insist that having a higher % for their weapons is a good thing? the higher the % the more you ahve to have because they are less effective on anything but the opposed element. where as a lower % around 15 or so is still effective on both fire and ice.

also the damage change isnt that great...not nearly as much as a grind or two anyways

--
Mod edit: fix title

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dhylec on 2007-03-26 06:00 ]</font>

[PJ]

You have higher % to do more damage on the one element, than the element that resists it (Itself) you switch to another weapon.

Dur dur dur.

[Omega_Weltall]

some people are just picky like that. and some just want to say that "hee hee hee i got high %'s on my weps, bichez"

[omegapirate2k]

Well, combine a high elemental percentage with grinding and you have an extra powerful weapon.

Not to mention if people insist on having high percentage weapons they likely have enough sense to carry a weapon with the opposite element on it ^_^

[Syl]

Well firstly, a grind or two isnt going to equal 34%+ of high rank weapons. You have to also include your base+class atp into the factor, so % is much better than a grind. Sure, you may not want to use it against like enemies as the element, but that's why you have 6 slots...

[Cz]

the different is pretty big. I once use a 20% light nightwalker doing 250 damage to dark enemies, then i switch to my 50% light nightwalker doing 350+ damage to dark enemies. But if u use that 50% light on a light or different element other than dark, then u wont see much damage increase.

[Weeaboolits]

it's similar to how the percents in PSO worked, if you match it right your damage is boosted by that percent, (ie: 100dmg + 10% bonus = 110dmg), also if you use the same element as the enemy it will do that percent less (100dmg -10% bonus = 90dmg), at least that's how I think it works, I haven't really tested it, but it would be kinda' odd if it didn't work that way, also I don't believe that you get any bonus if you have an unrelated element (ie: using ground on light).

[Zorafim]

On 2007-03-25 19:28, Ronin_Cooper wrote:
it's similar to how the percents in PSO worked, if you match it right your damage is boosted by that percent, (ie: 100dmg + 10% bonus = 110dmg), also if you use the same element as the enemy it will do that percent less (100dmg -10% bonus = 90dmg), at least that's how I think it works, I haven't really tested it, but it would be kinda' odd if it didn't work that way, also I don't believe that you get any bonus if you have an unrelated element (ie: using ground on light).




That's not how it works. It actually modifies your attack power. If you had 1k atp total (weapon and base atp included) and the weapon you had gave you 50% ice, then against fire enemies you'd have 1500 atp.

I don't even think that's the way it worked on PSO, either.

[Parn]

It did on Dreamcast, heh. Weapons were absurdly overpowered on Dreamcast when you had high %s.

[Alisha]

*pours gasoline on the thread*

if you have seen some of my other posts you know how i feel about %'s vs grinds.

[ljkkjlcm9]

because % makes a huge difference, far more than grinds. My 50% light crea doubles does 250+ a swing on dark enemies, and it's effective on everything but light enemies... amazing!

High percents are worth it, because no matter what enemy, you should never use the same element weapon on them. Your argument makes no sense at all.

50% light weapon
really strong against dark
normal against fire, ice, ground, electric
weak against light

amazingly it's only weak to one element... Amazingly, one other weapon for one element isn't all that much!

THE JACKEL

[Tiyr]

On 2007-03-25 18:45, HerdsmanOfYrr wrote:
the higher the % the more you ahve to have because they are less effective on anything but the opposed element.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HerdsmanOfYrr on 2007-03-25 18:46 ]</font>


This is where you seem to misunderstand something. They're only less effective against the same element--a high % weapons is as good as a greenie against everything but that.

Earth weapons, for example, are only bad against Bills, the robots in Grove, Navals and the Moatoob worms. That's it.

And as an example, I have a green Nightwalker that dropped off of a Gol Dolva--I also have a light and a dark double saber, both around 20%, not even that high. Against their respective elements, both of those seven star weapons do a decent amount more damage than the vanilla nightwalker. Crank that up to forty or fifty percent and, well, it gets insane.

My 44% 9* dagger outdamages anything else I have against fire enemies. Hands down. Having to switch weapons for ice enemies is a very small price to pay for the damage increase.

[imfanboy]

Honestly, I have a full pallate of 20%+ weapons to use in almost any area. It took a while to synth, but it's very worth it, particularly for a class like Wartecher or Protranser.

The way the multiplier works is like: Base ATP + Weapon ATT x PA % (if any) x Elemental % (if any).

Or, in other words, for say a green Ank Pikor it would be (on my FF) 1742 for a regular attack, 2525 for lv 25 Anga Redda. Kick in a 20% elemental boost on that and the Att goes up to 3100 - THAT is a big difference.

I even notice a significant difference (like, 60 damage a hit when using PAs, 40 damage a hit when not) between using my new 34% earth twin daggers and the old 16% earth ones that i keep as backup.

And for fortefighters... OMFG, HUGE damage difference. A 7* green axe does 250 damage with no zalure/shifta - a 7*, 20% weapon does something like 350. When it comes to PAs, the final combo of Redda does (and this is only at 49/4 FF, so I can't imagine how sick it's going to be come higher levels) with a 20% weapon, 1100 damage easy - with a green weapon, it's only like 700 or 800.

Besides which, what else are you going to do with your money?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: imfanboy on 2007-03-26 01:09 ]</font>

[Ether]

On 2007-03-25 20:59, Parn wrote:
It did on Dreamcast, heh. Weapons were absurdly overpowered on Dreamcast when you had high %s.



It really amazes me that Sega when back to the "multiplies your entire atp" system that was so broken back then. Its like they never learn at all

At least PSU doesn't have hit %, that was seriously broken in the later versions of PSO as well

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-03-26 01:12, Ether wrote:

On 2007-03-25 20:59, Parn wrote:
It did on Dreamcast, heh. Weapons were absurdly overpowered on Dreamcast when you had high %s.



It really amazes me that Sega when back to the "multiplies your entire atp" system that was so broken back then. Its like they never learn at all

At least PSU doesn't have hit %, that was seriously broken in the later versions of PSO as well


I remember that, it made my M&A 60 mad useful.

[Xaeris]

also the damage change isnt that great...not nearly as much as a grind or two anyways

First and most importantly...no. Just no. Secondly, while the action palette only has 6 spaces, the weapons compartment of your item bag has no such limit. So, people who suscribe the the high % weapon philosophy tend to be the same people who lug thirty weapons around and edit their palette as necessary for the area.

[Magician]

Because a higher % makes you a better hunter, which is kind of what the point is to running these missions over and over again is, to improve your character's equipment.

With a 50% Ice Giza-misaki, I was taking down Koltovas with 14-15 swings; with a 30% Ice Giza-misaki, it was taking 18-19 swings.

By not having a high % on your melee weapons (if you're a hunter class) you're essentially making your character less combat effective than it could be.

[ne1first]

Why high%? to do a lot more damage than you, noob. try using your palette to swtich to different element depending on enemy?

[Garanz-Baranz]

On 2007-03-26 04:13, ne1first wrote:
Why high%? to do a lot more damage than you, noob. try using your palette to swtich to different element depending on enemy?


Or, just use a universal weapon, i.e., a Green one.

Less hassle to even GET a high % weapon... And I barely have many photons... cause I never find any...

[ljkkjlcm9]

green is never advantageous. Having any % of any element weapon, is perfectly fine to use against 5 of the 6 elements.

THE JACKEL

[R2D6battlebot]

Where is the argument here? Seriously, high % weps are worth the time to get, and honestly without them, what would the majority of your money go to? Makeovers? My god, use the high % weapon on everything except its counter element, or even better, switch the weps around so you always hit something for max potential? Its called strategizing, and this is one of the most basic things in the game. Anyone who is saying you should just use non-element weapons and just grind them is a communist. There i said it.

[Schubalts]

On 2007-03-26 06:11, R2D6battlebot wrote:
Where is the argument here? Seriously, high % weps are worth the time to get, and honestly without them, what would the majority of your money go to? Makeovers? My god, use the high % weapon on everything except its counter element, or even better, switch the weps around so you always hit something for max potential? Its called strategizing, and this is one of the most basic things in the game. Anyone who is saying you should just use non-element weapons and just grind them is a communist. There i said it.




CAPITALIST PIGDOG! THE RED ARMY WILL NOT SPARE YOUR DINKY VILLAGE!

But seriously. Anybody with a human character knows why non-elemental weapons are useful. And NO, you DON'T get a damage penalty if your weapon is green, contrary to capitalist propaganda. You just don't get a BONUS.

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-03-26 12:11, Schubalts wrote:

On 2007-03-26 06:11, R2D6battlebot wrote:
Where is the argument here? Seriously, high % weps are worth the time to get, and honestly without them, what would the majority of your money go to? Makeovers? My god, use the high % weapon on everything except its counter element, or even better, switch the weps around so you always hit something for max potential? Its called strategizing, and this is one of the most basic things in the game. Anyone who is saying you should just use non-element weapons and just grind them is a communist. There i said it.




CAPITALIST PIGDOG! THE RED ARMY WILL NOT SPARE YOUR DINKY VILLAGE!

But seriously. Anybody with a human character knows why non-elemental weapons are useful. And NO, you DON'T get a damage penalty if your weapon is green, contrary to capitalist propaganda. You just don't get a BONUS.



Since Humans have a lower ATP they should want high element weapons MORE...

[Schubalts]

I meant the "Jack of All Trades" thing. Humans suck at no class, they rock as no class, but they are good at every class.

Non-elemental weapons don't suck against any monster, they don't omgwtfown any monster, but they are good against every monster.

[SuperRygar]

the OP is obviously hiding in shame, why keep bickering about this stupid topic?

[DamunBM]

On 2007-03-26 12:34, SuperRygar wrote:
the OP is obviously hiding in shame, why keep bickering about this stupid topic?



Well said...

[Rashiid]

to OP: thats exactally what i say, higher % means only againtts the opposing element. i want all 10% weaps.

[Soukosa]

On 2007-03-26 01:07, imfanboy wrote:
Besides which, what else are you going to do with your money photons?

http://www.amesani.org/soukosa/psu/images/photons.jpg

That's what happens when you don't have a melee character, solo all the time, and don't run a shop >.> I think my other character's storage looks the same and then there's photons in shared storage and ones that I can't put into any storage... Time to make some weapons~!

[Shiro_Ryuu]

What a waste, you'd be totally rich if only you had a shop and sold all of those photons for 25k, I wish I had that much photons during the time when people were duping. =(

[Tiyr]

Hah, Sounomi, that's what my bank looks like. And I DO synth melee weapons.

I may be relatively broke, but I'll never have to pay anyone for photons.

And the thing all of the "green" weapon advocates seem to miss is that a high-% weapons is bad against ONE kind of enemy. It's as good as a green against four elements and is amazingly better against one. Which means that even if you don't want to spend the time / money (and I know I don't) on getting a ton of high elements, all you really need are two per weapon type. If you have, say, earth and ice twin sabers, just don't use your earth ones against Bills. The ice ones will work just as well as a green and be infinitely more useful against any fire creatures.

But, really, for anyone who's been playing as long as some of these people and refuses to see this, there's really no amount of logic that's going to change their mind at this point.

[Jakosifer]

...I don't understand why most people don't just do both, seriously wtf. Get multiple elements and switch when you need to, grind these weapons and you wont even have to think of it...-_-

[Mayu]

On 2007-03-26 04:13, ne1first wrote:
Why high%? to do a lot more damage than you, noob. try using your palette to swtich to different element depending on enemy?



<3

[HUnewearl_Meira]

Lately, I've been theorizing about just synthing an absurd amount of each of the weapons that I use with each element, and grinding one of each with the highest efficiency up to 9 or 10 (the goal of synthing them in unreasonable quantities is to get several with high efficiencies as back-ups in case the grind fails), and then choosing the contents of my palette based on the mission I'm planning to do, and the other characters I'm planning to party with.

For example, as a Wartecher, I carry three wands, one for healing, and two for my buffs. When travelling with a Fortetecher or Guntecher who casts buffs, I'll swap out the techs on the buff wands for the three debuffs and a Gi-type tech. In the other two slots, I generally keep a Dagger and a Twin Dagger, so I'm thinking that with a little research, before entering a quest, I can choose a combination of Elements and Photon Arts that will be most useful against the mobs I expect to find. I may choose, for example, an Ice Dagger with Shunbu Shouren-zan linked, and a Lightning Twin Dagger with Renkai Buyou-zan linked, because I expect to find Fire-attribute mobs that I'm going to want to toss or stun, as well as Earth-attribute mobs that I expect to get surrounded by.

Just the same, if someone wants to get really in-depth with this sort of theory, then weapons with low-efficiencies may even be worthwhile to keep around, in the event that you're doing missions with large amounts of mobs of one element in the same room as a few mobs of the opposing element. The advantage of a low-efficiency weapon would then be that you would still have a boost against most mobs in the room, without a large penalty against the mobs' minority. There's a balance to be identified, to find the combination of factors that yields the fastest or easiest run.

Still, the simplest thing is to just get a pair of weapons with opposing elements and high efficiencies, so you're prepared for just about anything. I like to use Light and Dark, myself. The reason being that Light and Dark enemies aren't entirely common in most areas, but when they do show up, they tend be quite dangerous (ie, Kog nadd on Moatoob). Plus, I'm always prepared to run through Linear Line, Relics or Hive areas.