View Full Version : Pathetic Forces
I have never seen a useful force. Noone seems to know how to use a force. I see forces running around attacking delsabers with brands. I see them following me, and while I am being swamped they run for the items. I enter a room full of darkgunners, and I end up using my weak techniques and spells to slowly kill them while the force hides in the doorway. Makes me sick sometimes. When they die they want you to resurrect them immediately even though you are surrounded by 10 dimenians. Good thing now I am independent. Level 62 allows you to pretty much run through the ruins V-H on your own.
If I was a force, I would enter a room, there would be a lot of sparks, and everything would be dead. Maybe I'll make a force one day and show everyone what to do with all those tp points.
Cree: The legendary god of whoopass.
Yes, there`re many Force-Player who just don`t use the Strategic Elements of their Character. But as you can see in some Posts here, there are some Players who know how to play this Class (Including myself with my alternate Character Mikhal [FOnewm] Hehe)
Thing is, Forces don't really start to blossom until around level 18 or so on Normal. Once they get to Hard, they're effectiveness tapers off again until around level 40 or so (I hear).
Of course, this is mainly due to their reliance on fluids that 80-85% of any meseta found or gained by way of sold weapons is attributable to.
Living the life of Force is rewarding, but it is very tough in the early going. My introduction to hard last night was a nice smack right back into reality http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif.
I saw a useful force once... It was on a japanese ship and he was close to lvl 100. He must have had Megid lvl 15 because it NEVER missed and the enemies would ALWAYS die when he shot megid, and he was shooting megid like a madman.
02-13-2001, 03:30 PM
I'm a force character who loves to help out as a supporting unit. I'm very fast at helping low levelin trouble characters. It's unfortunate that forces are getting a bad name because of players inabilities. But I, for one, am an exception.
Whenever I can, I like to cast attackdefense buffs to characters around me and am quick when characters are low on HP or are poisoned, etc. One time I had to revive a character seven times that kept dying on boss 2. Another thing I enjoy is running to the center of the room full of monsters and casting Razonde weakening them so HuntersRangers can pick them off easily. It's this sense of teamwork that I enjoy the most about PSO and hope other forces will follow suit.
02-13-2001, 03:36 PM
I hate to say this but coming from EQ this would be one of the rare instances where you would want a previous EQ player since we are all used to roles. Most people who pick up this game might be used to solo playing where your char does everything.
Another thought is next time you see a force that is not doing their job, try to educate them. I know that more times than not they will go agro on you, but when you find that one good force that you helped on the right path... the reward will be worth it =)
02-13-2001, 05:18 PM
What Ambrai said.
Though I doubt it's excusively we're better, EQ players are weaned on team tactics. Looking out for eachother. And providing effective thrashings of the enemy.
Forces do look for meseta and fluids, because low level we HURT for cash. You tanks/rangers have no CLUE as to how badly either. A boss run is more of a 5K+ drop then anything else. So if you're a tank who's used to collecting the items in front of you while the Force is doing there part area weakening the whole crowd and supporting your hiney, give the Force a break. Suggest they even get all good sales items and meseta and maybe you'll see some less worried about continuing to be effective once they go bankrupt for fluid. When I've grouped with people even passing me fluid and fair on loot, I can provide non-stop area damage all night. That means faster quicker xp for all.
Not touting my own horn, but I've stumbled onto people looking for good groupers, and cards have been flying. At level 12 I joined some *very* good 17-20s who went to the end boss. I supported with spells the whole way.. I fought the final boss before beating the first one. I helped take out the first form of it too, and was effective all the while. One beauty is Forces can be effective even with disparate levels if they find the right spells for the monsters (some will do 0, but normally atleast one at almost any level will do nice damage).
Smart use of the custom bar is key since there's only 6 slots. Most of the time I forgo any kind of regular attack, but if I have one it's a decent gun (souped autogun, soon lockgun and beyond) to mix in with casts. Also even hitting for minimal damage anyone will recognize helps in some situations, particularly mines where robots are knocked back and cardines (sp?) knocked into melee range.
It's about maximizing for a group. To be honest, you (the original writer) seem a bit pent up, and I wonder if you give a damn about your party. Do you watch and see if everyone is most of the time (if not all) getting a hit on each mob? Do you care? Are you cool about loot? Do you offer stuff up or save for a twink you may someday create? Another from EQ.. loot goes to the classes there, and the most appropriate. The /rand function and seeing all the loot that resulted are things I miss from EQ, but if you're with a good group it doesn't matter that much.
Last night myself and a HUnewearl (also from EQ) owned Hard, and we were just passed 20. Think we both got at least 2-3 levels on a session that wasn't all that long. There was rarely a time we both didn't get xp on every kill. Before that on Normal I went deep with a HUcast.. area nuke, he's killing in a slash, we cut through them like butter and all the while maximizing xp. Later some others joined and some individuals would kill or chain cast.. well then it becomes kind of a race to touch everything and people start missing xp.
I find this a good game, almost the best I've played in a long time for grouping. EQ you'd actually gain more xp by solo.. they're tweaking it but it's still dubious. And levels matter a lot, even though it's less a factor at high levels. Diablo2 you actually want to join mulitplayer games.. and then solo! People go their own way, even when together they separate, plow ahead.. not a good grouping game again.. I like the single player but was very disappointed in mulitplayer grouping tries.
This is different. Touch the enemy get xp. A little more for the kill blow but not enough to get unruly. I will say this though, the layout DOES deter the *support only* Force. As simply put they will never get any xp (unlike Diablo2 and EQ). That said the Force is not 'cleric' only, and in fact where it matters the most (bosses), the Force really wants to be involved in some damage dealing as well.
I enjoyed the Force so much even after a memory card spit out and losing a level 20 FOmarl.. I now have a level 26 FOmarl. And really enjoy her, even if playing Hard is non stop Difluid consumption http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif But if you're the smart one, you'll find a good Force and help them help you.. the area effect damage spells are the only way to mass reduce the beefiness of the monsters on hard/very hard, and give you the chance of killing them. Once you work with a good Force, you might go from seeing them as the least useful, to the most.
And even early we are useful played well, even the original fireball chain-casted helps other earlys out a lot. And outside really having to watch the hitpoints, I was a fairly useful force even at level 12 with other 18-20 level tanks through the end boss.. and realize it only scales up from there.
lol I wrote a book.. but no dissing the Force!
Terra Prime, 26 FOmarl
Also 52 Erudite Enchanter TZ EQ
edit - oh one more comment, you may do very hard solo, but if you think on how much damage you need to deal for xp, now share that damage with someone else and get the same xp.. you'll never solo as well as group with other *good grouping players*. end of story.. and one reason why I like this game more than the other 2 for groups right now.. finally a real plus to grouping!
<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: DCKaz on 2001-02-13 15:22 ]</font>
02-13-2001, 05:27 PM
LOL Why do I expect volumes like that from a chanter? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif
02-13-2001, 05:29 PM
Yeah I'm even wordy for one of those :b
02-13-2001, 08:33 PM
Awesome response, DC... I agree wholeheartedly. Even if I cannot play yet, I will one day be a Force that lives up to that creedo. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif
02-13-2001, 08:47 PM
I know what you mean, but I do want to say that all Forces are not bad... I am a level 48 Force, and I am all about helping others... of course my problem is that I am having to return for fluids every half a level... I figger that with 700 TP, I might as well use it! I usually go through 2-3 Difluids in just one room! The other thing that helps out myself and other Forces, is when teamates are willing to hold onto 10 Difluids to drop for the FOrce when they are out. As for the items, something that my normal group and I do is this: I get most of the items, but before I sell any weapons that they can use, I drop em so that they can peruse and pick up anything that they could use/need. Then when they all done, I sell the leftovers to buy fluids. It works out well, since they have all the weapons they need, and I get to buy fluids. Also, I dont know how effective the TP/GENERATE or TP/RESTORE items are, but I can only assume that regenerating TP is a godsend to the Force class!
Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents!
I didn't say forces are useless, I love an aggressive force as a partner.....but I have only seen 1 in my entire PSO life. Saw him yesterday and he really let the razonde loose. Forces shouldn't worry about healing anyone but androids, and they shouldn't provide shifta and deband at all. Human/Newman Hunters and Rangers can heal themselves with their own tp, and they can provide themselves with their own enhancements. A force should walk into a room and blow everything to hell. If they run out of fluids, big shit. Fluids are easy to come by. If worse comes to worse, ask for some fluids, your partners will give you some if they are halfway polite.
Anyway, I was just pointing out that I see some really timid players, and 90 % of them are forces. I mean, do we have to explain to them not to take on a Sinow Gold with a saber+2?
And as for the group aspect of the game, it's ok, but I really hate groups. Here is why:
1. They take my items. I want all the items, I am greedy. But as greedy as I am I give out a lot of rares for free, but oh well, I still want to pick them up first.
2. When I am running around with my Precious Dragon Slayer I am scared shitless. Why? Cause if I die I might not see it again.....you know? Happens A LOT. Bad thing is you can't do much about it unless you just don't use the sword at all. You can't play with your friends all the time....
3. I hate trying to keep up with a crowd just so I can get my share of the kills.
Pretty much I either like running around by myself, or playing private games with DarthSP, my friend. And I really hate those hunters who sit in the back with machine guns.....it just irritates me so bad. I don't know why but it does.
Cree: the legendary god of whoopass.
02-14-2001, 12:12 AM
Truthfully, I've never played as a Force, but as a Ranger, I feel I can sympathize somewhat. Not completely, but somewhat. I've found myself having to run away quite a bit, as I get knocked about very easily by enemies. But every Force I've ever played with has been the complete opposite of what you say, Cree. Last force I played with got herself killed repeatedly by running in when I was getting surrounded and casting Razonde or healing me. I have a heal spell, but she helped out a lot in saving me that time so I could blast a few holes in the baddies. The best force I've ever played with was in the ruins at level 12 or so, because me and him were getting helped by a level 60, and he was great. I mean, he'd run in and heal or cast something to slow baddies down and find himself getting smacked dead because he risked it to save other people's asses. Not to start up another whole argument, but I've seen a bunch of Hunters who run to the enemy, hit a few times, get hit and scream help when running away, leaving me to try and stall the enemies with a few rapid fire blasts.
I didn't say that running into the middle of enemys counts as being a good force. Dieing a lot doesn't count either, it just plain irritates me. Good forces are goona run around constantly, but turn around every 2 seconds to unleash a RA-something. Forces SHOULD hide behind hunters, but what I am saying is while they are Hiding behind me, they should be draining their TP on attacks. And when I am surrounded by enemys, healing me won't help me as much as killing the enemys around me. Here is something I don't get....why did the force have to save your asses? couldnt the level 60 person step in? I am assuming this is normal-difficulty Ruins, because level 12 doesn't amount to much in the hard difficulty. Was the level 60 guy afk or something? Level 60 could probably punch his way through normal ruins.
02-14-2001, 07:56 AM
Forces need fluids and those suckers cost hell lot.
Next time, if u wan them to contribute.
Dun whine . Instead buy them lotsa full refill of fluids in tens of everykind or pass them some $$.
The topic starter can also start using a force char to experience whats its like being one.
Then, U would know whats playing online and spending at least 5 K ave per online session buying fluids. And u would know Forces build up levels VERY slowly+needs lotsa $+fluids+lotsa quests to earn $ = per gaming session offline and double that for online gaming sessions.
But nothing beats casting and casting spells lol.
<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: singa on 2001-02-14 06:04 ]</font>
02-14-2001, 05:22 PM
Cree, the level 60 was busy beating the hell out of scores of enemies at a time. And I was busy trying to slow the enemies down by shooting them, because not even a level 60 wants to be surrounded. And the mage was healing both me and the level 60, which helped the 60 a lot, since he was a cyborg and would have to suck down his dimates and such to keep his health up.
02-14-2001, 05:30 PM
Cree you are correct I am a force but force need to item hores at at low lvls to buy all of the monofluids difluids and trifluids. But I don't stand by and watch my partners take out everything I get involved!!! and I also think that fores want to get resericted just like every other class...
02-14-2001, 08:10 PM
I am just curious... actually not just from you, but all Hunter/Rangers. Would you prefer
a) A Force that blasts his Ra-spells like crazy and really doing some damage... with the downside of having to return to Pioneer 2 in like 2 or 3 rooms? (Seriously I went through 10 difluids in ONE room on VHARD last night w/ 2 hunters! And I gots 730 TP!!)
b) A Force that conserves his TP by not going insane w/ the spells... i.e. healing teamates, casting deband/shifta (at my level adds 200+ to their respective stats), and helps soften up the enemies, but not actively blowing the crud out of them... of course then they dont have to return to Pioneer 2 that often.
I am not trying to be sarcastic, so dont take it the wrong way. I am genuinely curious if people would get annoyed at the very commen visits to Pioneer 2. I have started using Tri-fluids, and this does help me stay down longer, but a full 10 costs me 36000!!! Unless I am getting the lions share of the treasure (which I agree is not entirely fair), I cant keep that up long at all.
Thanks, and I hope I see you all on Ragol!
02-14-2001, 10:11 PM
I'm a RAmar and here's what I'd rather see in a force:
Get in there and blast them to nothing!
Don't waste it but if the room is crowded... Queue the caster! It's time to get nasty!
You need fluids? We got fluids. Personally, if you are in a party that won't either fund your fluids or let you loot them... As a force... YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PARTY. My forces always get fluids first. Only time we grab fluids I am speaking for myself and the friends I group with (LINK, Ryo, Kronos X) is when they can't take anymore, meaning they are maxed on each type of fluid.
When you get low on those? We start dropping fluids. If a force has to go back to the ship more often than the rest of us for feeding mags, something's wrong. I also play EverQuest on Rallos Zek (51 Shadow Knight I might add) and as EQ is a place where casters usually support. No one ever said that a force is a healer or a buffer. I don't think of forces that way nor does anyone else I play with.
Force, much like the rest of us are there to do damage. I must say that Playing with Harley was an experience though. She knows she's not a healer and will lay waste to any room. Never wasting the room until she has seen some participation from the group to make sure they get exp too. Occasionally, she would shout "Free Heal!" and we would gather around to save some of our own TP.
That is an example to all forces. Get in there, know your surroundings, use the big nukes on crowded rooms and save the heals fer yer own arse.
In most of my parties everyone cast support spells, not just force. To understand it as a "responsibility" of the force class is senseless.
In comparison to most groups I've been in (Harley and her Caster friend as an exception)
Hunter and Ranger parties do much better only because Forces I've grouped with like the taste their own sweat while they mix it up inside. I really don't have a problem grouping a force but usually once they see how we run the fluids for them they open up and blast like crazy. Just a pain in the arse reviving them until they realize:
1. We don't want their Delsaber's Buster.
2. We gonna have them saturated with fluids.
So bottom line is as a force you have to play with as much strategy as any Ranger would moving around, letting us heard the mobs for you and when they where you want them... BoooOOOOOOOOOOMMMMmmmm.... Items and meseta are all that remain.
Trust your party to keep you saturated and don't let them down using that saber.
"But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong" - Dennis Miller
Commander, Special Operations
02-14-2001, 10:31 PM
RAmar here. Personally, I like the offensive mages. See, as a ranger, it is most important that the enemies stay just a step away, so it is very important I keep firing three shot combos, so I stop their movement twice. Needless to say, I get kind of panicky and less effective, so I'm about to get slashed when a Force pops up and hits all the creatures, allowing me time to back off and shower them in another volley. I have defencive spells which I use as much as possible as I have high MST for a ranger, so I'd rather the Forces consentrate on using those spells that drain my TP much, much faster, not to mention I only save room for my heal spell and my defence booster spell in my six slots. Truthfully, I've never really thought about how many fluids a Force must consume, and this is a good reminder. The Forces I've played with, despite casting like crazy, don't seem to need to go to town too frequently, and they never ask for fluids. Odd. Well, I still think Forces come in very handy.
02-15-2001, 12:05 AM
I play as a very aggressive force online, and it QUICKLY depletes my cash suply buying tons of fluids. Just starting to get a bit better now that I can use my doublesaber to steal a good chunk of tp (Thanks again for the 2 hero/abilities Ringmasta120!), but I still get knocked stupid trying every now and again. I don't have room in my bar for any status spells, it's strictly two ra-type spells, two normal type spells, dimate, and my special attack. So far I seem to be able to make it along just fine without having to beg for fluids or return to pioneer 2 every couple of seconds. Still, when the enemies start getting a little frantic and I don't wanna risk getting hit to restore tp, it's not unusual for me to drop all of my 712 tp in a single room.
02-15-2001, 03:02 AM
i'm a little bit upset here because i don't think a lot of you really understand what forces are for. i suppose i'm one of the lucky ones because of my mind railgun that steals back 30 per special attack, but between feeding our mag and trying to get our hits so we can level and trying to make sure that everyone is alright and full of health, there's a lot of things we cannot do. we can't just focus on clearing rooms...sure, we can do it on occasion, but in all honesty we have to stay as far away from the action as possible. i'm level 54 and it's still possible for me to die in one hit to some enemies on very hard. in battle i have to try and run around to divert the enemies attention, get my hits in on each of them, make sure nobody needs to be healed/cured/ressurected, all the while trying to get away for long enough to cover the room with my dark railgun and drop everyone in one shot. there's a lot us forces have to deal with, and it would make it a heck of a lot easier if you hunters (especially the guy who started this post) understood and just let us do our thing. if all you want out of your force is someone to stand there and shoot fire at everyone, i think you're looking for the wrong class. learn those spells yourself and we'll go find a group who understands us.
02-15-2001, 10:00 AM
Seriously, I've seen quite a few Rangers and Hunters staying FAR out of the action. Hell, I've taken more hits than the Hunters in my party usually. The spells I use are limited to deband and heal, so my tp stays high for a while. I understand Forces need to stay out of the action, and I find myself rarely bitching at a Force for inaction. All I ask is that when a big group of enemies first appears, the Force is there to cast Gifoie or some mass-damager spell.
Gladesworth says it best in his post. Yeah, it's easy to say "I want to see a Force go in and blow sh*t up!!!!", which I will do on occasion, but being a Force is alot much more than that. Anyone who makes a blanket statement like that obviously doesn't know what it is like to be a Force. To be broke with little or no Meseta the majority of your early levels (1-20). To have to constantly return to the Ship to shop for Fluids with the little money you did get while clearing 4-5 rooms. To have to fear being on the verge of death from one hit from a Rag Rappy.
Forces do have the ability to clear rooms in 2 secs with spells like Rafoie, but would you really want that? Doing this deprives other party members of EXP and can also drain the TP pretty fast. Again, I think you non-Force players would understand a little better if you actually had the experience of being a Force up to Level 20 or so. It's not as cut and dry as you want it to be.
Myself, i think I have a pretty good grasp on how to support my group. If you play with me, you WILL rarely see anyone in the group without Deband mainly because I often go the risky route of running in a pack of enemies to cast a chain of lightining to hit them all and then through to the other side to destract and keep them away from my Rangers. Having a HeartGun really helps as my style is a little on the TP draining side. I heal anyone who needs it. I change my button layout alot as well (as any good Force will do IMO) so I may seem slow at times.
Anyway, look me up sometime and maybe I can show you the ways of MY Force http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif.
PhatSaqs-Level 27 Fonewmn
Naga-Level 61 Mag (Looks like a Pirahna)
02-15-2001, 02:26 PM
All points made are all definitely valid. Forces can take any number of roles within a party. Being a RAcaseal I also find myself very much in a supporter role.
I generally keep my RAcaseal equipped with a spread weapon as I feel that it's more effective for me and the party that I continually toss out hard attacks that interrupt the enemy.
In using a spread weapon, I deal a lower but more widespread damage range. When someone casts shifta on me, I become even happier since my damage increases significantly and it helps clear rooms out even faster.
Because of this, I feel that anyone who has a decent shifta, should continually keep the party blanketed with this spell. The damage done may be indirect, but it is quite substantial when you have a party of 1-2 rangers with spreads, a hunter (or 2) and a force.
Forces that conserve a little on their TP consumption are actually far more welcomed in my opinion. They don't continually need to pump out high-TP eating spells to benefit the party. The only time I feel they should let the fluids flow is in a desperate situation.
I also feel that a Force shouldn't feel prohibited from healing hunters because sometimes that one extra spell that could have been and attack spell wouldn't have really made a difference in saving the hunter. It all comes down to judgement calls, and good Forces understand that their role within the party can change at any given moment.
02-15-2001, 05:51 PM
Like I said earlier in my post.
Harley is an example to all force classes. I'm not asking you to waste TP. But even if you did why do you think I'm carrying all these trifluids? You think I carry them to feel special? They are yours to use. If you don't hunt with people who, like myself, carry extra fluids for you then you are losing cash because you choose to group with greedy people.
Now I'm not saying that you blow the entire room up. What I am saying is that if you know your surroundings, and your character, you could easily drop a crowded room while still allowing others to get exp. No one says that you have to run in the room, paint runes on the floor and ask the lightning god to destroy Ragol.
I'm here mostly in support of Forces but it's hard not to take offense when people make statements "learn those spells yourself and we'll go find a group who understands us"
I have yet to met a member of any class who's heal spell couldn't heal them to full. Please note that you cannot heal from zero health because you are DEAD. So what I'm trying to say here is simple. If it calls for it do it. For the same reason people tell me to stop using the melee weapons and switch to my spread class of weapons which:
1. Do more damage
2. Provide more protection to my group members by knocking all (in most cases) of the enemies back, giving them some room to breath.
No one likes to be told how to play their character and I for one am not here to do that. Find a good group who makes draining fluids a trivial matter and then sit here and tell me you wouldn't make short work of a crowded room. Because if you actually moved around, watched the room (both on radar and live action), noticed that there has been significant participation from your party and then dropped the mobs.... you would:
1. Not have to revive the Hunter / Ranger who just got surrounded.
2. Not have to risk your neck to heal them by getting too close to the action.
3. Saved everyone, including yourself money on TP, recovery items (Most of us just keep hitting the dimate button an pray for help when surrounded)
4. Be respected by your party members as the sole class who can keep a party alive.
I've never had a problem with any forces in my parties. Like I said it just takes a bit for them to open up and begin to COMMAND large encounters.
Many of you speak of monetary issues. If cost is the problem then the solution is simple. Tell the Hunters / Rangers that you won't run around and ninja loot the items on the floor if they are aware and understand how much it cost ya to hunt with them. If they don't start leaving expensive Items they don't need (but would sell themselves) behind or drop fluids for you when you need it. You, at this point are the source of your own financial burden. There are so many groups out there many of which would be glad to have a force who is willing to step up in them.
I play on US / Umbriel in the first available block (Usually 001) and myself or any of my friends from my earlier post would allow you to realize your potential.
Oh btw I'm lvl 32 now because I started over with a new Ranger. I got tired of looking in the mirror whenever I saw a fellow RAmar. But I've been around quite a bit.
Lets just say I have about 60 lvls of experience.
Commander, Special Operations
02-15-2001, 08:37 PM
Loden makes a great point - Forces (like all classes) dont have or shouldnt have a preset role. It even states in the manual for the game that ; (Male Newman Force... cant remember name) has the potential to be a real leader in battle. This of course goes for all classes. If there is a hunter surrounded by baddies, but he is managing to block most of the hits? Blast away with Ra-Foie. He just got knocked down and has minimal health? Bust out with Resta. You just play it by ear. I think all the classes have their downsides and upsides... I look at all the cool weapons that my buddies are getting and wish I could join in the 'fun' (and even if I found couldnt use!), but then the next morning at work they are telling me 'what I wouldnt give to have your rafoie spell!' I have really not played with a group that has been unhappy with my performance... that is that have told me. I love this game, and I love my FOrce character. Which is surprising, since I USUALLY play the Tank type classes.
I can't believe that this thread has gone on as long as it has! If anyone wants to find me, I usually hang out in Ophelia 10-1, in either game piggy or Mun-KEE. Good gaming to everyone!
02-16-2001, 07:47 AM
Ppl...Just play the game !
Everyone should do what they like with their characters and enjoy what they do!
02-16-2001, 12:59 PM
Ok I refrained from more long postings till now http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif
But a little more..
It's great to say 'play it by ear' and 'can do it all'. But it's simply not true in how it plays out.
6 slots is very limiting. On hard already in some areas I see needs often for various spell configurations. Often I want the single lightning, fire, or both. Often I need area fire and lightning. My middle group hardly ever gets used, as well as cold (usually too little damage and not enough usefulness from freeze). This might change on vhard.
Now add cast heals. Some levels demand anti.
Places like caves demand antiparalysis. You can't cast. Usually I just have to go to menu, and then followup anti for others.
Places like ruins demand fast heals and/or fast antis due to enemies like sinow beats (fast attk, interrupt, confuse).
Pretty much any area needs a mix of fire and lightning to be effective, with some kind of heal up and anti work. And you need fluid up of course.
I haven't even started the support group!
Ideally for hard/vhard you'd have ressurect on the custom bar. And of course your best support. In practice I tend to swap ressurect in. Support is by the menu, if I'm doing it, if worth it. Happily to date I've grouped with a Hunewearl who does shifta and deband. Things like this make working as a Force a *lot* easier. PSO gave us 6 slots. Great for Androids, ok for hybrids, too few for Forces. I like to use my gun but often I toss that slot out.. unless it's a place like ruins where any repeated fire is distinctly useful (knockback or knockdown). Course that means even box breaking can cost a little tp http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif
I agree enjoy the game.. but look at the title, the Force was attacked.. so the Forces talked http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif Forces need others to take some attention so we can mass nuke. Man I miss rune3/5 (enchanter 52 TZ here on EQ), be nice to have a hp shield monsters can crack, but atleast we could survive longer. I've done pretty good on Hard 20+, but I can just imagine the one swipes I hear about on Very Hard.
To finish up, you can see where mulitple Forces/multiple casters could be a nice plus too. With the Hunewearl I work with, my areas hit, they're doing the buffs, I toss debuffs if needed (normally not so far, we'll see VeryHard), they toss areas as well as some melee finishes, and I either am gunning or single target finishing myself. Even then it's tough to get everything you want on the bar on the bar.. but any assistance helps.
I am soooo hoping PSO2 comes with 8 custom slots at the very least (least give us EQ coverage :b) - if you have a keyboard there is NO reason for it to show on one, let alone two, of the custom slots.
Also more keyboard support - HOTKEYS!!
Instead of a message, shoot off shifta, deband, jellen, etc.. get those spells off the valuable custom real estate, yet on something they'd still be useful enough to callup as needed. Even smarter choices would help ('heal potion - drinks most appropriate heal size on the fly from your inventory')
But PSO as is is still a blast.. and I think it was worth an exploration. Cree stated his Forces bite, yet he likes to look at if not take all loot. Considering the fluidic demands, its small wonder Forces with him perhaps haven't let the TP flow http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif Remember it's a direct meseta cost to the Force to slay monsters, unlike any physical or ranged weapon work.
So in the end, if you want more from your force, leave the meseta, spells, fluids, and some sellable wares. If they still aren't healing you when low and/or area reducing monsters hp for your xp pleasure, then maybe that force isn't the best. But if you're stingy/graby, it's small wonder.. I just bought resta 10 which only helps my party members, for 20k+ (I already way over maxheal myself, and I don't need a wider area for my person). That's one example of one spell on top of fluidic demands. It's an expensive profession.
Does that mean Forces demand charity? Hell no. But if you're loot grabby, they should and will find better groupers to allow them to do their work for the team better.
On a final end note - one way even noncasters can help forces is 10 atoms (or a hybrid with ressurect up) Think of it as 10 trifluids http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif
It's not really a class thing, but a class of person. I love some rangers who take a group down low, or I area cast and they lay waste. But I've grouped with some who either kill em all one by one before others can touch and/or loot up while they're not taking the physical abuse/potion use the hunters do nor the TP use the casters have. Same with hunters.. some finish well, but others dance around till just the last hits and quick disappearing loot up. And same with Forces.. some might cast irregularly to poor effect, loot a lot, and wrapped up with their mag or loot concerns. But some bring xp effectiveness up to new levels and even in the face of looting nuts continue to allow for precise decimation and/or survival.
Personally I think the best way to enjoy the game is when you have a bunch of unselfish people running around, asking if you need stuff they might have nabbed, mentioning curiosities.. basically being fair - while being a well oiled monster masher machine, maximizing xp for the team. It may be different for others.. more the loot/investigation of that loot, solo play, quests, etc. I admit, I like some of the solo play too, and it is nice to know you're getting every spell, useful material, etc. Heck solo is probably where more than a few of us forces get some meseta to keep kickin http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif
But online mulitplayer is a lot more fun, and happily if not always more loot useful (better stuff but more divisors, hopefully have a good group which leaves/doles out stuff based on class/need) the xp is a lot better. And who wouldn't toss cash for xp.. as much as they could afford? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif But again most importantly.. it's just a lot more fun to work hard against an enemy with a team. A good team.
Well atleast for me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif
Terra Prime 32 FOmarl
Look at it this way....I am a HUmar, and if you want me to I can clear room after room very fast with nothing but my techniques. Here is why all of your complaining about the hardships of forces is WRONG:
1. money is EASY to come by. Simply grab EVERY weapon and armor in a level you can get a hold of and you get an easy 20 grand, even if you have a lot of partners. Spend that 20 grand on trifluids, difluids, monofluids, whatever. Difluids will last a LONG time, even if you go shooting the place up. Not to mention you'll find a lot of fluids along the way. You think you forces are at a disadvantage? What about the androids? They have to spend just as much money on every form of mate they can get their hands on, because they can't spend a small amout of mana and heal themselves. They also really on buying other items like moons and telepipes while forces can do both of these with a low-cost technique.
2. Exp is easy to come by for a force, just the same as any other class. Shoot one rafoie and you get a peice of every enemy in the room and therefore you get all the experience you need. Don't worry about sharing experience, the other players can work for their own experience.
3. You won't rely on expensive weapons. Just like any other class you'll have to buy weapons when you have the spare cash but mostly you'll wait till you get high enough to find some good rares. While the Hunters rely on good weapons almost totally, you can get by just blowing things to hell, so you won't be in a pinch if you don't find a destruction weapon right away.
In conclusion, you guys need to learn how to be aggressive, and don't sit back and be this irritating little person who follows me around healing me when I can do it on my own. Knock 300 points off every enemy in the room for me, I can kill them much quicker, meaning we will both move through the level much faster and get our experience faster. I especially like a force who uses Rabarta in every room, leaving me a bunch of Snowcones to slash to peices. But like I said, I don't see why you guys think forces are at a disadvantage. In my opinion the androids have it harder.
02-16-2001, 01:50 PM
Hee hee. I like you Cree, you're funny. You said you're a HUmar, right? How the hell do you know how long Difluids last? Sure, you've used them, but Forces rely only on their spells, so they have to restore their tp again and again, while if you run out of TP, you can just hack and slash. As for your second argument? Think about it, there IS a healing spell that restores HP, and it also restored the HP of the allies within a certain radius, INCLUDING androids. But is there a spell that restores TP? Nope. None. Nada. As for aggressiveness? What are they supposed to do? Run into the enemy and hit buttons for all they're worth? They'll die in two hits. They have bad defense, my friend. They can cast and cast, but soon their TP runs out and they need difluid. Gizonde does about 100 damage at a high level. In hard, that doesn't even kill a Rag Rappy, but it still takes a chunk of TP. Think before you speak next time, Cree.
1st: arent you a ranger? If so, why are you saying that I can't understand a force when you claim you know how it is to be a force? Are you sure I don't have a force character?
Second, like i said before, WITH MY HUMAR I CAN SHOOT MY TECHNIQUES OFF LIKE THERE IS NO TOMMOROW. I can blow the hell out of a room with RA anything, and not suffer a severe dent in my difluids, and THAT is how I know what a force can do. If i can do it they can do it better. You want me to play a force with my hunter, I can, I can immitate a force, just with a drastically shorter tp supply. Don't tell me they suffer for fluids to the point it puts them at a disadvantage. I think you should really shut the fuck because I know what I am talking about.
02-16-2001, 02:10 PM
Cree... perhaps you should play a Force, then? Enlighten the rest of us on how it should be done?
02-16-2001, 02:13 PM
Cree: Why not u just play as a force?
Not use reasoning if u dun know what u are talking about..
And everything Ratsmack said is true and all the other Force members here.
I think ya being stubborn on your replies.
Like I said before Cree, try playing as a Force at least up until level 20 to see exactly what it's like. Most of your points are kinda far off. I'll try to hit the ones I have qualms with:
"1. money is EASY to come by. Simply grab EVERY weapon and armor in a level you can get a hold of and you get an easy 20 grand,
Unless we play with a "partner" such as yourself who is a self-described item whore.
even if you have a lot of partners."
"What about the androids? They have to spend just as much money on every form of mate they can get their hands on, because they can't spend a small amout of mana and heal themselves."
That's why Forces are an integral part of any team. A good Force won't let their teammates have to constantly rely on self healing. They'll be their for them. On the other end, TP is TOTALLY dependent on being restored by way of item (aside from healing stations). No comparison at all here sorry.
"They also really on buying other items like moons and telepipes while forces can do both of these with a low-cost technique."
Decent point. But both of these are alot less expensive than and don't have to be bought in max quantities or constantly replenished like fluids.
"2. Exp is easy to come by for a force, just the same as any other class. Shoot one rafoie and you get a peice of every enemy in the room and therefore you get all the experience you need. Don't worry about sharing experience, the other players can work for their own experience."
Umm. But that's not exactly "clearing the room" as you suggest Forces do in your initial post. That is playing as a smart Force should. Weakening the enemies, and letting his partners finish them off.
"3. You won't rely on expensive weapons..."
Look at this as a tradeoff to having to rely almost soley on purchased (and repurchased) Fluids and Disks to do any real damage.
"In conclusion, you guys need to learn how to be aggressive, and don't sit back and be this irritating little person who follows me around healing me when I can do it on my own."
If this is indeed the type of Forces you've been encountering, then you're playing with the wrong people.
"Knock 300 points off every enemy in the room for me, I can kill them much quicker, meaning we will both move through the level much faster and get our experience faster."
That should be "we" can kill them much quicker http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif. Stop thinking you're in it all by yourself and you might just find better teammates. Sharing items and meseta might help to.
I get where you are coming from now, but I also know for a fact now that you've been playing with the wrong people. You ruffled some feathers here making blanket statements and making it seem as if playing as a Force is so cut and dry. Look me up sometime this evening if you want to play with a decent Force. Send me a private message so that we can arrange something.
02-16-2001, 02:32 PM
The only thing that I want to add is that Difluids dont last me a long time. If all I had to rely on was my difluids, I would be going back to Pioneer 2 every 2 rooms (on VHard, sometimes only 1 room). Now, I agree w/ Cree on one point definately... [once on VHARD], money is not an issue. I easily run around w/ 10 difluids, 10 trifluids, am able to completely restock after a run, and I now have 300,000 mst in the bank from the extra.
I really think that not one class has it 'the worst'... I think it is pretty well balanced... Androids do need to purchase lots of mates (although I question why Trifluids need to be 1600 mst more than a Trimate), and hunters have to get right in the enemies face to be effective. Rangers have only 1 weapon type(that I know of) that can hit multiple enemies. And Forces are limited by low hp/def and TP. The reason this is, is to promote teamwork. Every classes positive overlaps another classes negative.
I know what DCKaz is saying about six slots... is annoying, but I manage. I usually have Rafoie, Gizonde, and Gibarta. By the way, DCKaz, I disagree on the ice spell statement you said. I do find the other 2 worthless, but my Gibarta does 135 damage (to the right enemies of course), and the freezing is a GODSEND in vhard for me. Them suckers are fast, and having them stop in there tracks allows me some breathing room. I find that generally, ppl dont die THAT often, so I usually dont put Reverser on my bar (xcept for boss fights). My support spells last a long time, meaning that I dont have to cast them often. Doesnt go on bar. Resta and fluids... a MUST. As for anti, my solution is to heal the guy w/ resta (if confused/slowed) so that they dont die until it wears off... may take more TP this way, but at least I save on slots.
By the way... Cree, I think I would love to play w/ you sometime... your style of play sounds very similar to my own... I love playing w/ anyone that will take most of the hits, so that I can just blanket the room w/ fire.
02-16-2001, 03:25 PM
No one is here telling peps how to play the game. It started as a gripe and has slowly changed to honest questions and responses from gamers. Mun-KEE asked what we would like to see in a Force and we answered.
I obviously cannot control your character nor you mine.
This particular thread is not about bickering or telling others what to do. They asked a question and we answered. Unless you want to bring your dreamcast over my house and hook up I cannot control your character nor could I be upset if you lets say wanted to charge a room full of Delsabers with Knuckle Dusters.
All I can do is help as best I can and pray for a positive outcome, or in a worse case scenario... Tell you to search your buddy list for someone to take my spot because I have to leave.
We have already established what you just said. We have moved on to a much more interesting topic other than "Stop telling me what to do". We are now talking strategy.
These recent comments fit well with the first post (that is, if you were offended) but we are not bickering about this matter.
Some have posted off topic but the majority of post have been helpful IMO. Information I already knew but I'm sure some hunters and rangers had no Idea of the expense a force must absorb just to hunt in the ruins and NOT charge a room full of Delsabers with hmmm... Knuckle Dusters.
Strategy is important when playing on V-Hard and there are forces in the party. You can't just run around like 4 soloing bandits. Well, you could but you could also "drive a car with your feet but that doesn't make it the right thing to do" - Chris Rock
Basically what I'm saying here is this thread has been a eye opener for most of us even force players. If your post are about strategy and what you would like to see out of us just as much as what we would like to see out of you then it would be that much more educational.
Things that I already know from playing with awesome forces but most people probably learned or had their memory jogged about:
--> Forces need fluids take extra for them and help fund them by leaving extra stuff they could sell as well on the ground (which I really don't understand as a problem because every hunter and ranger I know has never purchased a useful weapon from the shops after lvl 12 or so)
--> Forces really shouldn't be making more trips than you do to feed mags if you are aware of the first item. If they do, then figure out ways to help them on large rooms other than just herding them all together. For example a ranger could pull out the spread needle and go to town which helps the person herding the mobs and cuts down on how many spells it would take to kill them all.
--> Help out by casting Heals and Buff spells your self. Everyone has a decent Shift by the time you are doing V-Hard so keep that in mind and pump a few out yourself (most of us do this already just be sure to share since it cost just as much to do that too).
--> Forces should get all fluids dropped unless they are maxed on that type of fluid (this is a "gimme" folks)
There are probably more useful force groupage tips that have been gathered from this thread that I have left out. Like I said this is just common practice for me and friends of mine but maybe that's because we kill gods often in EQ and need to fund our clerics peridots which can be very expensive when they have to bring many to a plannar raid.
Basically what I'm trying to say is I and probably others have read and enjoyed this thread because it gave us information we wouldn't readily know without walking in the shoes of our teammates. Bitter post or small statements are cool if that makes you happy but I hope you got more out of this than a feeling of bitterness towards those who posted here in an effort to put together a basic form of group strategy for those who didn't already know.
Commander, Special Operations
<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: Loden on 2001-02-16 13:48 ]</font>
<font size=1>[ This message was edited by: Loden on 2001-02-16 13:52 ]</font>
02-16-2001, 03:50 PM
I shouldn't have started over for a new look. We could be tearing up the ruins Mun-KEE. Your my kind of force.
I'll catch ya in no time though.
02-16-2001, 03:52 PM
Loden, you're right in a way, but this is a discussion, it doesn't necessarily have to be jam-packed with strategy. If someone needs help on strategy, they can just post for help on one of the boards and tons of people will give their input.
02-16-2001, 04:07 PM
That's true and if you read between the lines I very politely asked that we keep the bitterness to a minimum. After all PSO is built on teamwork and friendship. No sense in arguing here. Staying to topic is one way to do just that. That way we share our information and experiences without the slap in the face. Cree really could've chosen a different title for this thread but he didn't. I am very pleased that for the most part, forces here have practically ignored that he did that.
This has been interesting logistical information regarding groups containing forces.
Equipment and cash should be the last thing on your mind and I think we hammered out a few things to make this possible. Even though it obviously made some folks angry and had them post flamers.
So, without taking a "whack" at me I understand exactly what you said but I also would like this post to be more than just bitterness between the classes.
Be cool Ratsmack
02-16-2001, 06:46 PM
simple bits people didn't grasp -
Forces low/middle levels do have cash issues (particularly with item whores). Cree your a loot whore, and you're buying potions and in very hard right? Of course you have no money problems and cast at will.. duhhhhh
As far as not buying at the store past level 12.. Forces buy spells. It does happen. It's to increase their output. We'd rather get all our spells lootwise. I still have not seen ONE support spell drop. Most spells that do drop (which are infrequent) are beneath me. So we do buy things at the store past level 12.. more than most of us would like to I'm sure. I limit my buys to essentials, and it still does add as the level you needs increases (ie resta 10 was about 24k). Which is a decent dent adding to fluids and only helping others (net solo effect = zip).
I'm always aggressive in my games. I'm the one normally grouping the mobs together for the big nuke kills. I'm also in a group of 2 often, that's one reason why I keep resurrect on my custom bar *sometimes* - get them back for the xp, and have someone else to take some attention to cast better. Disparaging saving heals is silly.. I'd rather not have the downtime or xp loss for them (as I will likely have to clear some to get them back). And if on very hard it is one stroke = death, it's not all that surprising the Force realizes they're only effective if they can cast/ie alive. If that is the problem, hey an idea.. group up the mobs for them and lead em in to some nice area nuke love.
But that'd be working as a team. Ugh. Lol.
Anyways this whole topic came up out of a little ignorance, and I hope it's been put to rest. If other classes have problems fine, but I for one didn't start a thread 'patheric HUmars' or androids, or anything else http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif
Hopefully the thread will die now..
I'm not to very hard and it might change, I hope so. Already I have noticed a little less strain when I get a good share during hard.
04-23-2001, 01:18 PM
Sorry DCKaz, I can't not have my rant.
I whole heartedly agree with acting as the main caster, when with your fellow comrades. My friends are often getting killed at Dark Falz, so I dash round quick to help.
Fellow forces, when starting out try to use handguns or mechguns, this way you get hit less and have more TP for offensive spells. Maybe even have a mag high in DEX for better ATA. I still find it tough going even with C-SORCERERS CANE, so I still mostly try to use M&A60 VISE +9 (as this is the 1 of the best guns I can use), ATA maxed at 121, which is not cool. I'd much rather be using HOLY RAY, which would do some severe damage. I know we shouldn't be using guns, it just makes life that little bit easier. It's only a suggestion.
I know it's tough going in the beginning, I know cause I died plenty of times, but it is all worth it in the end when your Force is Lv100 with all the top spells. I'm almost there, just at Lv90 now with my FOnewm, and not even Dark Falz could kill me. Just last night I wupped his sorry behind in V.Hard online, with other players of a similar level, none of us used dolls, but I was constantly using reverser on 1 player (after DF uses Grants). He can be a right pain with that.
Maybe you Hunters/Rangers do have Shifta/Deband but ours always lasts much longer, so it doesn't have to be cast so often. This is a good thing, because then we all use less fluids.
What I really wanted to say was, if you look out for us we will more than gladly look out for you, and in the end everybody is happy. I've always been happy enough to share the rares I get, which I have no use for or don't need. I've also helped a number of newbies with my force character.
P.S: I need to hook up with a Pinkal some time, as I'm still finding it difficult to get those Lv15 disks.
Thats enough for now, sorry once again.
04-23-2001, 02:15 PM
I'm glad there are so many Force supporters!!! Forces are the hardest to play as!!! But I think you should be a smart force......i.e. not using that saber, like your a hunter..... Yea I run headfirst into rooms and round up the baddies to RA- them into the ground but resta and shifta/deband here and there is nessasary, right? I mean its just being courtious.....I shifta/deband usually for myself, and you just might happen to be in it's range!!! Also back to being a smart force.... know which spells hurt which baddie!!! If you have a very mixed group???..... Rabarta em, and start hackin!!! I hate running back the Pioneer 2 for Trifluids and them not have ne, that really sets me off!!!!!! But I have a semi solution C-sorserors cane, till you get low..... then a nice handgun w/ heart series,(I just found a soul raygun, yay!!) But learning how to use my radar effectively was the bigest help, running right through a hoard enimies unscathed is rather impressive, right? If you are a force, starting one, or whatever learn to be effective!!!! Like which spells are the best for what enimies....and practice running and dodging, why take damage when you can avoid it all together?!?! And if you see a low lvl force..... the gift of money does help! Well that rant was very unorganized! If you made it and understood anything, congrats! Sorry for any typos...... hehehe http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif!
04-23-2001, 05:15 PM
You wanna see how a force CAN and SHOULD be played??? Hook up with me.....It's usually the other people who cant seem to get co-ordinated into some semblance of a working group....
04-23-2001, 06:15 PM
Well on the first page of these posts talkin about EQ, tha's as far as i went because i KNOW EQ, i'm an old old EQ vetran, 51 rogue 34 bard, bro has a 49 necro 55 cleric, and 42 druid, we share our characters, etc. but ya my main is 51 rogue, if it weren't for team tactics, etc. my god i would never have got past lvl 20, because solo'ing just doesn't happen for that class, as like a force, its hard as hell for my lvl 64 force to solo in ruins vhard, i know my class well and i'm great to group with so i've been told, not many ppl die with me because i cast shifta-deband-and resta profusely, but anyhow, a force is there to weaken like earlier stated, hell my force can tank, but i like to hit with a few spells first, then clean up with special on double saber to earn back some of the 300 tp i just wasted weakening them darn enemies for ya'll, i think that forces are a huge vital role in a group ESPECIALLY if grouped with an android, sure hunters and rangers can cast heal, but if they are fighting and in the midst of battle being beaten on, they may not be able to get a heal off for them unfortunate droids that are all outta 'mates, wherein a force staying in the back, buffing/healing/weakening enemies can at anytime just about. I have found my force to be more fun to play then my lvl 100 HUmar, just for the fact that its fun to be a team player, rather then a meat shield.
04-23-2001, 09:51 PM
Alright, Since no ones most likely going 2 read this, considering its such a long post, I think ill say this pretty shortly. FORCES are a art. A art work. A lvl 100 fo that doesn't know how 2 play isn't nearly as effective as a lvl 60 fo that truly knows what they're doing. Now, heres the problems, with a lot of your arguements. 1st off, anywhere past lvl 40, anything besides trifluids are completely useless. You could use 3 difluids and still not have your tp filled maxly. So basically you MUST use a trifluid, SO all other fluids are uselss, THEREFOR fluids are extremely hard 2 come by. MY lvl 68 FoNewm has 1200 tp (Yes, a lot, but with a mag with 120 mind and 4 god/minds, and countless mind materials, u can see how its possible.) LEt me tell u something about him, he certainly doesn't suck! I can drain around 50 tp per hit with my dbl saber, which is saves me a lot in fluids. He can shell out 700 in dmg 2 every creature in the room in under 10 seconds. (BEAT THAT MR. hunter!)But of course, Forces have disgraceful down falls. The biggest being how much they die, which actually could be perceived as a blessing, considering it revives your tp.
THe biggest Problem forces have is the fact that not every spell effects every creature. I. E. U walk into a room full of dimenians, SO dimenians, and La dimenians, U HAVE 2 USE 3 DIFFERENT SPELLS 2 DO ANY WHERE NEAR A GOOD AMOUNT OF DAMAGE! So, its very hard for a force 2 walk into a room, "And blow shit up"
Longer and more scattered than i thought^^.
04-24-2001, 03:04 AM
Cree try being a force at level one. See how hard it is to fight being a low level. Start from scratch with no given weapon or magic spells from your higher characters. Lets see how good you can be. My first character is a Force, started from scratch and he's 100 now.
04-24-2001, 05:52 AM
Why is this discussion going on so long?
... thought I would add in I like playing with a force that can mix it up. I dont mean get in there and 'blow it up'... I am talking an all-purpose unit. The force Lv100 I play with (her name withheld for security pruposes) is able to be support, offensive, and defensive without problem. All characters have there mutliple faucets... except for those poor technique-less andriods... they are offensive exclusive I am afraid.
And for money... never had a force ask for some financial support as money goes... be glad to help with it though. I see how much TP they burn, and how much items cost... and the fact I yank in 30k a store-run, I think I and every other player out there can do their part to fund a good force.
Good force = just another functional member of the group.
If you arent helping the group, do something different!
04-24-2001, 06:12 AM
Ok Gandalf, but how likely are you to come across a Lv100 FO that doesn't know what they are doing? Very rarely I would imagine. Also, making a few extra trips to P2 helps cause you can get all that TP back for a measly 10Mst, bargain or what? Try not to do too often, as fellow team mates would probably give up on you. Also, remeber where healing rings are, you may need a quick visit before the boss, rather than go to P2 and lose all those PB points. I'll agree with you about the Trif's, my TP is at it's max (1100+ something) so Dif's are no good. If playing with Androids, you could get them to hold 10 Trif's for you, so you have enough to spare whilst your roasting all those monsters.
This gives me an idea. I propose a challenge, anybody thats up to it join me. For the next 3 nights (24th-26th April) I'll be on EU:Iapetus11, I'll create a team called 'Force Power' pass will be 'noweps', on V.Hard. No-one is to use weapons, just good old fashioned magic. Should be fun. I'll be on from about 20:00 (British Standard Time) till late. All forces are welcome. I'm looking forward to getting home tonight now. Hope to see you all there. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif
I'll show you the true power of a Force, the likes of which you'll never have seen.
04-24-2001, 07:05 AM
Wow - the thread that never dies http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif
For what it's worth, I find higher level forces to be THE best support in a team (and it should be a team - remember?). They have to work damn hard to get there, but once they do ... I don't have a mage character but I admire the perseverance and game-skills of those that stick with it.
Power to the forces, I say http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_smile.gif
04-24-2001, 08:07 AM
I have to say, after viewing this topic, I have the itch to put my two cents in.
I play as a Melee/Force, and I must say that it's a rather interesting life. Sure, I might not be able to take out creatures as easily as Hunters do, but I make up for that by freezing the heck out of them with Rabarta,then proceeding to whack them with my tried-and-true Soul Eater. Sure, there are times when I have to back down, but I usually pop up to the front line again after recovering.
I always make sure that my party is healed and has Shifta/Deband up, and that no one is suffering from any status ailments.
These posts remind me of the disscussions about the Meleemancers of Diablo II....Many said that a Necromancer would never be able to survive fighting in hand-to-hand combat. The Meleemancers proved them wrong.
This brings me to my point.....
All the classes in PSO can be played in many ways. And to add to that, play in a style that suits you.
04-30-2001, 03:24 PM
i just made a new fonewm the other day and im actually digging the force. and i've heard people complain that they level up slowly. not true. i've had Gandalf for 2 days now and im on lvl 30 already. its a fun change going from a hucast to a force. no magic/ magic. and i've seen hawke alytr use his melee/force and he kicketh ass http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif
04-30-2001, 04:34 PM
Personally the kind of force I prefer to play with is one that fires off a ra-class spell to make sure they get exp then makes sure the heavier hitters are shifta'ed up so we clear the rooms quicker.
I don't much like playing with stupid forces who think they need to be on the frontline all the time. The obvious example of a stupid force would be that npc alicia baz in one of the offline quests who often insisted on running in front of me and getting needlessly smacked.
Tbh as most of my real-life friends are around lvl50-60 and are rangers/hunters I end up casting shifta/deband most of the time anyway (lvl100 ramar) so I really appreciate playing with a good force as it makes my game much more relaxing.
Personally I would never have the patience to build up a force character as I play a lot offline.
Hopefully sega will do more for forces in ver2 to give people more incentives to play as them. The obvious thing would be force only spells that took existing stuff to new levels for example forces could have combined support spells that cast shifta/deband, jellen/zalure, etc. An interesting tech would be an offensive version of ryuker, just think how useful it would be at times to zap a bunch of baddies away to another area. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/icon_wink.gif
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