Kubara Force weapons?

[ENAK]

Does anybody actually use them and what for?

[-Shimarisu-]

I use them, for casting techs.

[Sychosis]

Aye. For the massive PP reserves.

[Dragon_Knight]

The Kubara weapons are just perfect for techs that don't rely on weapon power like the buffs/debuff/reverser/ect and they are still pretty good even if loaded up with attack techs. Its mostly due to the high battery life and higher recharge rate.

[Powder Keg]

They have a higher recharge rate? Neat, I might have to get a view Kubara rods and grind them to hell and back.

[Sychosis]

I use Rodocs +5 for my buffs and debuffs. They have more PP than my Howrod http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Zarbolord]

I don't use them because.... I don't have of them synthed yet http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I'm stil trying to finish off my 5 hunter wep boards XD But yeah PP is excellent if u want to train a certain tech.

[ENAK]

thanks guys looks like I gotta start makin some.

[Rashiid]

i use my granarodoc for my healing rod. i usually dont run outta PP on other ones anyway, but yeah Kubara wands/rods pwn normal ones

[PJ]

As other people have said...

I use my Granarodoc for my S/D/Z/R, since that isn't based off tech, and it just has massive PP.

[Hyper_P]

Hurrah! A chance to show off my Rodoc (10)!

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8589/psu20070329224900005zq0.png

No Tomoirod (10) to compare it to, but according to the database, the Rodoc (10) has 15 TP more and 156 more PP points.

Make of this, what you will...

Oh, and the other Rodoc there is (9), only had one +10 Grinder!

[Rashiid]

Raygun? b00ooo!

[Hyper_P]

It's just to open boxes, man. I swear! (And I saw it for 5000 meseta - dirt cheap)

[JAFO22000]

Nice +10! I got one to +4 and use that and a couple of Granarodocs (1449 base PP) for buffs/debuffs. Have 2 Cometaracs for Resta/Reverser casting...

And yes, the 8* rods (not sure about the 6*) regen 9PP per tick.

[Guarionex]

I'm synthing a kubara wand, I don't think I'll be able to use it yet, but I hope to use it eventually as my guntecher's buff wand.

[Kaydin]

Just wait until we can get Granarodoc +10 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[SuperRygar]

do any of the Kubara weapons have really low requirements? it seems to me i was able to equip Flouresant Bulb at a really low level and it had alot more ATP than my other weapons

[renzosh]

have a wandoc +6 and another + 5 good pp number, plus looks pretty badass

[MomoHana]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/DotXBall/psu20070330_061311_000.jpg

:3

[-Shimarisu-]

lolpc

[MomoHana]

On 2007-03-29 14:38, -Shimarisu- wrote:
lolpc



?

[DikkyRay]

My Wandrac+10 pwns so hard.
Stronger than the 8* Yohmei WAnd http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Rashiid]

On 2007-03-29 14:38, -Shimarisu- wrote:
lolpc



not sure if this was a bash to PC users, but they cant hack grinds, so yeah....http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif

[-Shimarisu-]

If you use "very high" chance all the way to +6, and "high" chance after that:

Something between 5 and 8% of weapons will make it to +10. I based this on EXTENSIVE research of grinding some 100+ weaps.

With the monopoly money on PC, and the amount of duped +10 grinders that STILL exist on the servers, getting a 6* weap to +10 is no great feat, I'm sorry.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-03-29 14:47 ]</font>

[Sychosis]

On 2007-03-29 14:46, Rashiid wrote:

On 2007-03-29 14:38, -Shimarisu- wrote:
lolpc



not sure if this was a bash to PC users, but they cant hack grinds, so yeah....http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_no.gif



I think it was more of a "I can't believe you guys are proud of +10 weapons you only acquired through massive amounts of haxeta" lol.

EDIT: I was right!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sychosis on 2007-03-29 14:49 ]</font>

[DikkyRay]

On 2007-03-29 14:47, -Shimarisu- wrote:
If you use "very high" chance all the way to +6, and "high" chance after that:

Something between 5 and 8% of weapons will make it to +10. I based this on EXTENSIVE research of grinding some 100+ weaps.

With the monopoly money on PC, and the amount of duped +10 grinders that STILL exist on the servers, getting a 6* weap to +10 is no great feat, I'm sorry.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-03-29 14:47 ]</font>

Seeing as i myself mademy +10 grinders, i do feel happy
And dont go with "BUT YOU BOUGHT THEM WITH HAX'D MESETA!!!! D:" cuz its just a way of saying "IM SO BROKE ON THE 360 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Rashiid]

lol tru.

[Weakness]

On 2007-03-29 14:47, -Shimarisu- wrote:
If you use "very high" chance all the way to +6, and "high" chance after that:

Something between 5 and 8% of weapons will make it to +10. I based this on EXTENSIVE research of grinding some 100+ weaps.

With the monopoly money on PC, and the amount of duped +10 grinders that STILL exist on the servers, getting a 6* weap to +10 is no great feat, I'm sorry.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-03-29 14:47 ]</font>


Based on my research I put it at closer to a 15% chance. And my extensive research consist somewhere above 500. Went through about 100+ Alterics alone.

=P And grinder +10's aren't hard to get at all... all you need is to get a full stack of all the other grinders in your inventory and in your PM, after that all you have to do is retry. This costs shocking less then you would imagine. I can spend about 2.5M and end up with 99 B+10's.

Granted the hyper-inflation is what makes this all possible.

[DikkyRay]

On 2007-03-29 14:54, Weakness wrote:

On 2007-03-29 14:47, -Shimarisu- wrote:
If you use "very high" chance all the way to +6, and "high" chance after that:

Something between 5 and 8% of weapons will make it to +10. I based this on EXTENSIVE research of grinding some 100+ weaps.

With the monopoly money on PC, and the amount of duped +10 grinders that STILL exist on the servers, getting a 6* weap to +10 is no great feat, I'm sorry.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-03-29 14:47 ]</font>


Based on my research I put it at closer to a 15% chance. And my extensive research consist somewhere above 500. Went through about 100+ Alterics alone.

=P And grinder +10's aren't hard to get at all... all you need is to get a full stack of all the other grinders in your inventory and in your PM, after that all you have to do is retry. This costs shocking less then you would imagine. I can spend about 2.5M and end up with 99 B+10's.

Granted the hyper-inflation is what makes this all possible.


Hmm, it may be higher for kubara weps. I'd say like 20%.
Got 4 kubara wands up to +7, +9,+9,+10.
Granted i dont grind much, but i rarely grind past 5 sooooo

[-Shimarisu-]

Somebody on 360 please show me a +10 Rodoc, then we can all congratulate them.

This is how it is, I'm not bashing. It's easy to have high grinds on PC. I had WAY too much money on PC, before quitting for 360.

I have a +7 Alteric. It has a 20-25% chance of making it to +10. That is why I have SEVEN +6 Alterics, I know what I've let myself in for, and having the weapons and using them at a high grind while I slowly grind them to +10 is better than breaking them all at once.

[Weakness]

On 2007-03-29 14:58, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Somebody on 360 please show me a +10 Rodoc, then we can all congratulate them.

This is how it is, I'm not bashing. It's easy to have high grinds on PC. I had WAY too much money on PC, before quitting for 360.

I have a +7 Alteric. It has a 20-25% chance of making it to +10. That is why I have SEVEN +6 Alterics, I know what I've let myself in for, and having the weapons and using them at a high grind while I slowly grind them to +10 is better than breaking them all at once.



But it doesn't matter if you do it all at once or slowly build up to it. It is going to be a certain percent chance, tossed in with a little luck.

The upside to having mass amounts of money to play with is that I can do research.

[DikkyRay]

On 2007-03-29 15:01, Weakness wrote:

On 2007-03-29 14:58, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Somebody on 360 please show me a +10 Rodoc, then we can all congratulate them.

This is how it is, I'm not bashing. It's easy to have high grinds on PC. I had WAY too much money on PC, before quitting for 360.

I have a +7 Alteric. It has a 20-25% chance of making it to +10. That is why I have SEVEN +6 Alterics, I know what I've let myself in for, and having the weapons and using them at a high grind while I slowly grind them to +10 is better than breaking them all at once.



But it doesn't matter if you do it all at once or slowly build up to it. It is going to be a certain percent chance, tossed in with a little luck.

The upside to having mass amounts of money to play with is that I can do research.

Take it from me, there are other upsides....
But this is kinda intersting. I mihgt do a little research of my own.

[MomoHana]

On 2007-03-29 14:58, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Somebody on 360 please show me a +10 Rodoc, then we can all congratulate them.

This is how it is, I'm not bashing. It's easy to have high grinds on PC. I had WAY too much money on PC, before quitting for 360.

I have a +7 Alteric. It has a 20-25% chance of making it to +10. That is why I have SEVEN +6 Alterics, I know what I've let myself in for, and having the weapons and using them at a high grind while I slowly grind them to +10 is better than breaking them all at once.



So you can break them slowly?

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-03-29 14:54, Weakness wrote:

On 2007-03-29 14:47, -Shimarisu- wrote:
If you use "very high" chance all the way to +6, and "high" chance after that:

Something between 5 and 8% of weapons will make it to +10. I based this on EXTENSIVE research of grinding some 100+ weaps.

With the monopoly money on PC, and the amount of duped +10 grinders that STILL exist on the servers, getting a 6* weap to +10 is no great feat, I'm sorry.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-03-29 14:47 ]</font>


Based on my research I put it at closer to a 15% chance. And my extensive research consist somewhere above 500. Went through about 100+ Alterics alone.

=P And grinder +10's aren't hard to get at all... all you need is to get a full stack of all the other grinders in your inventory and in your PM, after that all you have to do is retry. This costs shocking less then you would imagine. I can spend about 2.5M and end up with 99 B+10's.

Granted the hyper-inflation is what makes this all possible.



It's not 15%.

Maybe it is if you use +10s all the way to er, +10, but that would be VERY "lol PC".

With "very high," always using a grinder one or two HIGHER or MORE than the current grind, 80-90% will succeed. Let's pretend the first two grinds are definite (though on 360, the second is never definite for me. B+10s cost 30K+)

Let's pretend the grind success is always 90%. It isn't because it varies depending on your grinder.
At +3 to +6:

100%x90%x90%x90%x90%=65% will succeed.
At +7 to +10:

At "high" chance the grind success is always 65% for me.

65%x65%x65%x65%x65%=

11.6%! But this is an IDEAL number using IDEAL grinders.

Using slightly less ideal grinders it's always around 8%. I know the grind varies because even at "very high" a +1 grinder will break the weapon one out of three times.

Yep I risked MANY weaps with +1 grinders to arrive at that figure.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2007-03-29 15:01, Weakness wrote:


But it doesn't matter if you do it all at once or slowly build up to it.


Yes it does.

Because I GET TO USE THE WEAPONS BEFORE THEY INEVITABLY BREAK. That makes me MORE EFFICIENT.

Whast if they ALL break? That means I never got to use ANY of them.

Jesus, people.

[Weakness]

On 2007-03-29 15:09, -Shimarisu- wrote:

Yes it does.

Because I GET TO USE THE WEAPONS BEFORE THEY INEVITABLY BREAK. That makes me MORE EFFICIENT.

Whast if they ALL break? That means I never got to use ANY of them.

Jesus, people.



I was referring to the end result. In which case, it doesn't matter how you do it, the end result will be the same.

A "High" chance is probably closer to 70% then 65%. So using your math, from (and including) +7 to +10.

70%x70%x70%x70%x70% = 16.807%

My data isn't concrete, I am still working things out. I need to get my weapon grinding numbers into the 1000's before I start saying things for fact. But I will say, it is a lot higher then 8% chance to make.

Also I can tell you that Grinder +10's are a 1% chance to make for (well almost) certain.

Edit to add:

Okay, let me add in this. The 16.8% is wrong, because I don't have the other numbers before it. Starting from 0 to +10, using +10 grinders all the way on 3* luck day. My calculations put "Very High" somewhere around 90% and "High" around 70%. So,

100% x 100% x 90% x 90% x 90% x 90% x 70% x 70% x 70% x 70%

That puts you at 15.753% chance of a +10 weapon, which is why I claimed it to be about 15% in my initial post.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Weakness on 2007-03-29 15:46 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

Your figures are for using +10s all the way to +10. At least they seem to be, if you are saying the +2 grind is DEFINITE.

This is NOT cost effective on servers with no saturation of hacked money. It is far, far more cost effective to go for my 8% figure, by making all your own grinders and using the "always grind at very high to +6 using a grinder rated higher than the current grind, and at 'high' from +7 to +10" rule.

And it will be 80%. If you use my rule you'll spend on AVERAGE 3K per grind on 360.

Use your rule, you'll spend 30K per grind on 360. At LEAST.

So I might end up with half your successes, but the successes will cost 1/15th what yours do.

[omegapirate2k]

On a more serious note, I use MY cometerac as a toilet plunger.

[MayLee]

On 2007-03-29 16:19, omegapirate2k wrote:
On a more serious note, I use MY cometerac as a toilet plunger.

Ew! was going to ask if you'd lend it here but I don't want to get my hands dirty. >.>

[Weakness]

On 2007-03-29 16:14, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Your figures are for using +10s all the way to +10. At least they seem to be, if you are saying the +2 grind is DEFINITE.

This is NOT cost effective on servers with no saturation of hacked money. It is far, far more cost effective to go for my 8% figure, by making all your own grinders and using the "always grind at very high to +6 using a grinder rated higher than the current grind, and at 'high' from +7 to +10" rule.

And it will be 80%. If you use my rule you'll spend on AVERAGE 3K per grind on 360.

Use your rule, you'll spend 30K per grind on 360. At LEAST.

So I might end up with half your successes, but the successes will cost 1/15th what yours do.



You can go cost effective with making your own grinders. Or better yet,

+1~10, +10, +1~10, +1~10, +9/10, +10, which would make a Certain or Very High until +6 on a 3* luck day. After that you are stuck using B+9's to +9 and a B+10 to +10. As far as my research shows it doesn't make a difference whether it is a +1 or a +10, if it says "Very High" it is still about ~90%.

Also your 1/15th the cost doesn't include the price of what you would be paying on extra weapons broken. As for myself I would like to put that money towards an almost doubled percent increase on the weapon I have. Either way works, and probably evens out in the end.

You can used the hacked money bit all you want, but at least I have the extra cash flow to be able to freely research.

[omegapirate2k]

On 2007-03-29 16:22, MayLee wrote:

On 2007-03-29 16:19, omegapirate2k wrote:
On a more serious note, I use MY cometerac as a toilet plunger.

Ew! was going to ask if you'd lend it here but I don't want to get my hands dirty. >.>



Just like I lent you my raper? I don't even want it back after I've been wondering what you've been up to with it.

[-Shimarisu-]

Like I say, "lolpc."

It matters with +1. Or at least it does on C ranks. I grinded DOZENS of C rank rifles. I experimented using +1 grinders when it said "very high."

The weapon broke 10 out of 30 times. Not an amazing pool to base an opinion on, but I found +3 grinders were WAY more successful. After the second dead cert grind I'll use +3s right up to grind 5 on C rank rifles now.

Doing this with +1 DID break a heck f a lot of weapons. The safe way to do this is t use the rule "Always use a grinder higher than the current grind, unless the weapon is cheap and you don't care."

Which I don't with 1-3* rifles.

[-Shimarisu-]

Also any research on PC that only uses very high, even +10 grinders is not research that really helps those on 360 or JP servers.

Paying 30-50K for grinds 2-10? No thanks.

[Weakness]

Okay let's see, from my research. I have ~760 total weapons. Most of this research is dealing with how much "Very High" and "High" actually are.

Using only +1's, out of 102 weapons with Very High, 89 were successful. Which would be 87.2549%.

Using +6's, out of 87 with Very High, 76 were successful. Which would be 87.3563%.

The small percent difference is negligible, even with the small sample pool. I'm still doing more research, so I can't say things for certain. But I believe that Very High is ~90% and High is ~70%.

Any research trying using only Very High and High is tangible regardless of what you think. Anyone who is truly aiming for a reliable grind is going to use the highest possible rating they can find. Regardless of where the research comes from, or what the research uses, people can use it.

I would gladly pay 30k~50k for a few +10 grinders, or shell out the money to make my own if it meant I didn't have to spend money on getting another weapon, and then waste more grinders getting it back to where it was.

I'm sorry you are too damned poor/don't want to put enough effort into getting money to make high grinds. Also, get off your damned 360 high horse. That elitest, know-it-all attitude is why people on these boards don't like you.

[-Shimarisu-]

Please tell me why you would gadly spend 30K on a few +10 grinders (btw it's pocket money on PC, on 360 it represents 45 mins to an hour of gametime) when you yourself insist that +1 is the same as +10 when it says "very high," and have support for the idea that "Anyone who is truly aiming for a reliable grind is going to use the highest possible rating they can find."

I'm confused.

I don't care if people on these boards don't like me, by the way. There's only one person on these boards I need to give a damn about me, and I won't be losing his respect any day soon.

[Weakness]

On 2007-03-29 17:19, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Please tell me why you would gadly spend 30K on a few +10 grinders (btw it's pocket money on PC, on 360 it represents 45 mins to an hour of gametime) when you yourself insist that +1 is the same as +10 when it says "very high," and have support for the idea that "Anyone who is truly aiming for a reliable grind is going to use the highest possible rating they can find."

I'm confused.

I don't care if people on these boards don't like me, by the way. There's only one person on these boards I need to give a damn about me, and I won't be losing his respect any day soon.




Because you are going to have to use at least one +10 grinder to get at least a "High" chance all the way through is why I said it.

I also showed you how to get to +10, without using only B+10's. You only need 3 per weapon. Please refer to my previous post.

[-Shimarisu-]

ITT a PC user thinks they are better than a 360 user just because they can afford more stuff. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Also they discredit any research done by the 360 user, despite the 360 user coming up with similar figures to them for "very high" and "high".

I'll be more impressed with any 360 user with a +10 than PC users with +10 purely for the fact that making money is far, far harder.

You also forget that I played on PC for months. And I live with somebody on the PC servers who did a few runs of LL then sold all the photons for 2 mil+, just last month.

Seeing as yuo can buy everything required to make grinders from the NPC shop, the inflation on the value of everything you CANNOT buy means that acquiring everything you CAN is too easy for my liking.

Hence why I quit your version. And I'm not poor btw. I'm rich enough where it matters to skip to 360 just for the sake of one game.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-03-29 17:31 ]</font>

[Weakness]

On 2007-03-29 17:30, -Shimarisu- wrote:
ITT a PC user thinks they are better than a 360 user just because they can afford more stuff. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Also they discredit any research done by the 360 user, despite the 360 user coming up with similar figures to them for "very high" and "high".

I'll be more impressed with any 360 user with a +10 than PC users with +10 purely for the fact that making money is far, far harder.

You also forget that I played on PC for months. And I live with somebody on the PC servers who did a few runs of LL then sold all the photons for 2 mil+, just last month.

Seeing as yuo can buy everything required to make grinders from the NPC shop, the inflation on the value of everything you CANNOT buy means that acquiring everything you CAN is too easy for my liking.

Hence why I quit your version. And I'm not poor btw. I'm rich enough where it matters to skip to 360 just for the sake of one game.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2007-03-29 17:31 ]</font>


Please show once where I said PC/PS2 was better then 360. I just told you to be quiet about the elitism because it isn't as if you are better then us.

I discredited your 8% theory, when the highest possible is ~15%. Also that +1 is the same as +6 on the "Very High" or "High" rating. I'm sorry I did enough research to be right? I never said your "Very High" or "High" theory was wrong... seeing as you didn't really post any numbers for that.

Having high inflation let me do my research, there are always good things to the bad. Regardless of what version you are on, grinding is going to be the same. My research on what percents to making grinders and my percents on Very High and High are useful to anyone. If you want the other percents.

Fifty-Fifty is shockingly 50%
Low is ~30%
Very Low is ~10%

But if anyone is actually stupid enough to try and grind with those percents... then have fun wasting you money, I will keep on using Very High and High.

There is a silver lining to every cloud. I have enough money to do research, research, and more research. This gets more reliable numbers for everyone else.

Also, it is someone's personal choice to open a player shop to make money and buy everything they want. You can go the route of only using mission rewards and NPC's, as well as craft your own equipment. God forbid someone out there has a palate full of 9*'s, because you can do everything honestly and that person will never effect you.

[Ryna]

Since this thread has gone off-topic, I am going to lock it. If you want to discuss grinder percentages, create a new thread in the Gameplay forum.