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Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 09:48 PM
I would really love to know why people have such a massive hate on PvP? Don't get me wrong I hate a lot of PvP, I came to this game from WoW and one of the big reasons I quit was because I would get sooo tired of having a group of 10 allies gank me during grinding. World PvP in this game would drive me crazy. But the thing is I still like some PvP MODES(big emphasis on the modes there).

Just cause I game has PvP doesn't mean it has to ruin it, you just have to make the right mode. I think that in PSU if they were to make a PvP it would be cool to have a 1v1 or 2v2 dueling arena where you challenge someone to a duel and if they accept then you both have some fun PvP! Nobody whining because they didn't want to PvP and got killed anyway.

Also why should people that would love to see some sort of PvP mode put into PSU, be denied that because of some of the most ridiculous arguments ever. "Everyone will complain! People will be too obsessed to grind and get stronger! Fights will break out!" First off people will always whine and complain, and fights will always break out about something. To deny someone of an awesome game aspect for that reason seems pretty silly, if you can't deal with peoples whining then lord knows how you deal with some of the other things in this game.

Finally I will say this. There is no valid/solid reason to deny a PvP mode of some kind. If it is in the form of a mode or a battleground/dueling arena that you choose to enter, and you don't like pvp, then you have the CHOICE to not enter than dueling arena. No reason to whine about PvP unless you are forced into it. You can go ahead and PvE all you like just don't enter the dueling area if you don't want to.

If this was the way PvP was in this game what would the big problem be, honestly?

Mewnie
Mar 30, 2007, 09:57 PM
PvP brings a whole new slew of PvP balancing issues to the table, which will effect PvE.

Kent
Mar 30, 2007, 09:58 PM
It's a harassment issue.

"lawl u n00b, ill pwn you in pvp bring it"

"I'll pass, thanks."

"wut ur dam rite ur afrade of me"

Then proceeds to get everyone he can think of to harass you for declining the challenge.

That's how things work - PvP, even if completely voluntary, attracts these types of people, and it'd ruin what the game currently is. That's why people hate PvP and don't want it in here. You can deny it all you want, but that's what factually happens.

PvP feeds egos, and causes said fed egos to harass others, regardless of whether or not they accept the challenge, and regardless of what the outcome is.

The game is meant to be a co-operative game, not a competative one.

CelestialBlade
Mar 30, 2007, 09:58 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to Sonic Team adding in a PvP arena, but I don't think I'd ever go. I like PvP up until people start taking it way, way too seriously and really ruin the experience for me. Serious Business is bad business.

Sekani
Mar 30, 2007, 09:59 PM
The last time I responded to this question the resulting flame war left six people dead and thirty-two injured.

Isn't that enough of a reason to hate PvP?

Sychosis
Mar 30, 2007, 09:59 PM
ST cannot make a good PvP system.

They just can't. PSO's was TERRIBLE beyond words.

And of course declining a PvP match results in your being harassed, etc.

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 09:59 PM
I agree serious PvP is very annoying which is another reason I left WoW, but I think with PSU's community and with an arena like I suggested, it would be easy to steer away from the serious people. Hell I would be happy just if me and my roommate could duel eachother in PSU over lan!

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:02 PM
I think people here are actually giving me a good insight into humanity. No matter what kind of system you make people will always mess with it, abuse it, and ruin it for other. One thing about the abuse tho is if people denied a duel and then harassed you, there is always reporting. But as I very well know that generally gets you nowhere. Ahh well perhaps I will go do some old school Diablo 2 dueling for my pvp fix haha

Golto
Mar 30, 2007, 10:04 PM
It would aquire too much tweaking to the classes and the harassment would suck. You want pvp go play a real mmorpg.

BoxerMcBoxe
Mar 30, 2007, 10:05 PM
Cause PSU isn't a competitive game, its a coop game.

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:07 PM
please actually read posts other than just mine for same answers=waste of time

BoxerMcBoxe
Mar 30, 2007, 10:08 PM
This whole thread is a waste of time already.

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:09 PM
Not for me, I would like to see people opinions and gain some insight on them. If it's a waste of time why did you post twice and continue to check it?

BoxerMcBoxe
Mar 30, 2007, 10:10 PM
And my opinion is less valid because someone else posted it?

Sounds like you don't want to hear others opinions unless they agree with yours.

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:11 PM
lol please don't turn this into a thread of hate, I am merely asking a question and I made the comment because your post was identical to above.

pineapple
Mar 30, 2007, 10:16 PM
The game was not made with PvP in mind, so it probably would turn out about the same as PSO's. Maybe slightly harder for forces without being able to lock on to people through walls and stuff.

They would also need to massively rebalanced all the classes. Everyone's DPS is about equal to their HP, so they would be really quick fights... If they only changed the balance while in the arena or something it might work, but then it would be hard to gauge how you were actually going to do in a fight. Time spent on PvP mode takes away from the time they could be using to develop the core game. I'm not entirely against PvP, but it probably wouldn't turn out all that well.

PJ
Mar 30, 2007, 10:17 PM
PvP might work.

In a fighting game. I dunno, maybe.

GreenArcher
Mar 30, 2007, 10:17 PM
On 2007-03-30 19:48, Deathgeist wrote:

Also why should people that would love to see some sort of PvP mode put into PSU, be denied that because of some of the most ridiculous arguments ever.



Well actually, nothing is denying you PvP other than Sonic Team

Mattardo
Mar 30, 2007, 10:18 PM
I agree with all the above posts. Exactly. Every one of them. I don't have my own opinion on the matter. I don't even know what PVP is. Penis verses Penis? Sounds like something better left in the back room of the local video store, if ya ask me, and you clearly DID. Pervert.

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:18 PM
thanks pineapple that makes sense. I was thinking of what you said about a different balance for the arena but it would be difficult and time consuming. Also as you said it would be hard to judge how well you would do. It is clear that the game was not designed with pvp in mind but like I said before I would love to duel my friends, even if they were 10 seconds duels like most of our PSO ones are http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

pineapple
Mar 30, 2007, 10:19 PM
On 2007-03-30 20:18, Mattardo wrote:
I agree with all the above posts. Exactly. Every one of them. I don't have my own opinion on the matter. I don't even know what PVP is. Penis verses Penis? Sounds like something better left in the back room of the local video store, if ya ask me, and you clearly DID. Pervert.



changed my mind. we must have PVP!

Mattardo
Mar 30, 2007, 10:20 PM
OH, Pineapple..

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:20 PM
wouldn't penis vs penis be a tad too graphic for PSU =O

Mattardo
Mar 30, 2007, 10:22 PM
I think killing cute little pannons is graphic enough! And don't forget about the highly detailed PM intercourse that can be performed while in a locked room. Don't believe me? Then .. you just haven't tried hard enough..

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:22 PM
Well thanks for the posts so far, due to the ones that are actually constructive I have come to the conclusion that perhaps PvP is not suited for this game at all, mainly because of the difficulty in actually creating a system that would work properly.

pineapple
Mar 30, 2007, 10:23 PM
On 2007-03-30 20:20, Deathgeist wrote:
wouldn't penis vs penis be a tad too graphic for PSU =O



one could argue that all the giant swords and stuff are phallic symbols already...

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:23 PM
Umm look at my sig, me and Aiko get it on all the time. Altho one time we forgot to lock the door and, well, let's just say my partner card list was pretty disgusted.

Warskullz
Mar 30, 2007, 10:24 PM
obvisouly u ppl dont read things thru all the way...how would introducing a mode where u CHOOSE to go to an arena to pvp affect ppl? Heres a thought...if u dont want to get harrassed for turning down a pvp duel then dont goto the mode to go pvp.

I played WoW and they had a dueling system where u could randomly get challenged to duels...and the only times i saw ppl getting harrassed for not dueling was because they are friends and just bugging there friend. Im pretty sure having a mode where u enter to go pvp and get challenged to duels would be great. By giving another mode it gives ppl that ability to have a PvP fix instead of having to hop to another game just to kill some person online. U dont want to pvp fine. Dont go join the mode. U join the mode u get harassed for not dueling ur a noob. Why would u join a pvp mode if u dont want to pvp? if u get beat in a challenge and whine because the guy that beat u is way to powerful...simple go get urself some better gear.

All u ppl saying PSU introducing pvp will unbalance the game...tell me exactly how ?
The way I see it if PSU introduced pvp it would actually have a population and u then might find a party because ppl are trying to lvl up and become the best so they can prove it.

Im sorry what is the point of the game if u get to the end and cant do nething? Pvp is one of those things that gives ppl more incentive to go lvl up...get better gear...become more skilled (less noobs)

Mattardo
Mar 30, 2007, 10:25 PM
"and thus our brave hero impaled his foe with his mighty sword full to the hilt!" Yes, I suppose you COULD see swords as phallic symbols. Deathgeist, are you admiiting that you have given your pm a taste of your blade? And what's this comment about some posts being unconstructive? That hurts. That... hurts...

Mattardo
Mar 30, 2007, 10:26 PM
Brilliant first post! I respect a man who can fling the term "noob" around like a veteran.

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:27 PM
Haha mattardo yours was so constructive I felt that it sat on a pedastal of it's own. And yes I am admitting it altho I wouldn't call it a blade, more a double saber without the 2 ends =O

Kimil
Mar 30, 2007, 10:28 PM
Lol... I remember in PSO's PvP... If you casted Resta level 3 and up, you'd heal your enemy too. Lol, wtf Sega?

Sega has gotten a bit better over the years, but could they make a good PvP system? I'm not so sure...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-03-30 20:30 ]</font>

Mattardo
Mar 30, 2007, 10:29 PM
Sega would first have to make a decent online game to even consider pvp. I mean, come on...

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:31 PM
HAHA Mattardo I now love you, but don't let Aiko know I said that or I may get cut off...

Warskullz
Mar 30, 2007, 10:31 PM
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Warskullz on 2007-03-30 20:33 ]</font>

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:34 PM
PSO pvp is just hilarious, me and my roommate do it pretty frequently when we get bored and I can honestly say that I laugh everytime I forget resta heals the other guy. I don't know how I still forget but I do.

pineapple
Mar 30, 2007, 10:35 PM
Yes, the fact that I can crit for 1.5x my own health would be completely balanced in a pvp setting against someone with similar stats. They are n00bs and should get moar phat lewtz. Also, I enjoyed PvP in WoW, but normally turned down duels because I found them to be pointless. This meant that I was harassed basically any time I needed to ride the zeppelin.

I'm glad you registered to provide that well thought out argument. I was totally wrong.

edit: lol, I always miss that there are additional pages to the thread on this forum.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pineapple on 2007-03-30 20:36 ]</font>

Mattardo
Mar 30, 2007, 10:35 PM
I put off a natural scent that attracts people who name their characters after dead Mesopotamian gods. Remember, it was those fucking Babylonians that made mother Tia into an evil deity! Damn them!

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:37 PM
No kidding those bastard! that's why my guy characters are almost always Tiamat. I'm like the reincarnation out to smash those babylonian bitches!

pineapple
Mar 30, 2007, 10:41 PM
Babylonians, more like baby-lonians mirite?

Deathgeist
Mar 30, 2007, 10:45 PM
Well looks like this is done, all I have to say is yay I made a hot thread! Increasing my hotness points to almost max now I think http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Rashiid
Mar 30, 2007, 11:09 PM
PvP = ruins co-op`ness.

this wasnt ment for us to kill each other in....

Weeaboolits
Mar 30, 2007, 11:44 PM
I only support PvP under the condition that we get the Delsaber of Obliteration and the Lightspeed Evil Shark, or at least equivelent PSU enemies.

Ryo_Hayasa
Mar 31, 2007, 12:13 AM
I donno, Pvp would work, as everyone has said "they do it right" Someone suggested an "Arena" style Pvp area, and well. Class balancing can be done just FOR the Pvp mode so it doesn't ruin the normal PvE stuff. I would say that overal FOs have a massive advantage (without balancing) as a Hunter could never be able to get close enough to a FO to go some decent damage before, well. Dambarta, or even. -gasp- Any GiTechs. Rangers would defeat FOs assuming a FO's naturally high EVA doesn't kick in, or they don't use a Nos-spell.

And well, if someone messes with you over "omg nub u no dual? you's a wuss lols" That's why we have the almight black list Jaja? and anyone who jumps the boat in messing with you can share the same fate.

What would worry me, is people leveling up purely for Pvp, and so no one is leveling, everyone is just at the Pvp arena. Meh it would upset me.

However, for those who are making "teams/clans/guilds" this would make for good ol' team on team action right? And i thought ST confirmed that they WERE working on a Pvp mode right?

Deathgeist
Mar 31, 2007, 12:28 AM
You said it well Ryo. I totally forgot about blacklist even myself, and I really don't think that harassment justifies no pvp anyways cause people exaggerate how bad it really is. It would suck if people stopped lvling due to the arena but I highly doubt it. Also with the arena idea it makes for a way to seperate yourself from the pvp community.

Another thing that would be interesting in the dueling aspect is if you could only send duels to people on your partner card list. That would ensure that some random dumbass wouldn't start flaming you with duel requests and other harassment.

Kent
Mar 31, 2007, 12:56 AM
I'm not exaggerating when I say they can get every person they can think of to start harassing you.

PvP Clans, anyone? Mass-harassment does ensue.

If there's a limit on blacklist entries, they'll probably push it as far as they can (and if you're unlucky enough for it to happen from more than one clan, well, there goes all of it). If not, they'll make it so you have to blacklist people so often, that you can't go about enjoying the game any more.

It happens in Diablo, it even happens in FFXI (where PvP is solely event-based). People like that will exist in any form of online game that has PvP to any extent.

Making it partner card-only wouldn't solve anything. It'd just make duel-happy idiots start flaming you with partner card demands, so they can duel you... Then harass you when they can't get your card. There wouldn't be any stopping it.

Maybe if there was no way to tell who, exactly, you were fighting, or if there was no actual way to stage a fight between two people. If the system was wholly anonymous and random, then some people might realize how pointless it is.

Still, regardless of the amount of PvP, as long as it involves players actually getting to fight each other:

Annoying little bastards who want to do nothing but fight others, will be attracted.
People who decline any form of duel request (be it in-game command or verbal) will be harassed.
By extension, the harassers will leave mass-negative feedback for the harassees (if on Xbox 360 version).
People who don't want to play PvP will be harassed into doing so, or leaving.
People will focus less on the co-operative aspects (which, people have enough problems with co-operating, already).
Elitists will flood the game with whatever specific class they deem to be best-suited to PvP.

These things will happen invariably. PSU should stay how it is; co-op only. Not only because it's how the game was designed to be in the first place, but also because there's basically no way to include PvP and keep both sides content.

HerdsmanOfYrr
Mar 31, 2007, 01:04 AM
hate but isnt that what PvP is about...or at least it creates?


idk i have never played an online game that was PvP except for battlefeild 2142 which is a first person shooter type game. and man to people get pissed there when things dont go their way.


edit: I didnt realize there was four pages and only read the first one...oh well


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HerdsmanOfYrr on 2007-03-30 23:05 ]</font>

Alisha
Mar 31, 2007, 01:13 AM
i thought pso pvp was decent i even won a rule 2 tournament. it was also a nice distraction. episode 2 broke pvp because of the tech boosts fonewm pretty much dominated it. pvp would be great in psu if only for the fact that i would get to punt loli's.

Weeaboolits
Mar 31, 2007, 01:18 AM
On 2007-03-30 23:13, Alisha wrote:
i thought pso pvp was decent i even won a rule 2 tournament. it was also a nice distraction. episode 2 broke pvp because of the tech boosts fonewm pretty much dominated it. pvp would be great in psu if only for the fact that i would get to punt loli's.



To Moatoob? ;P

Angelo
Mar 31, 2007, 01:20 AM
PvP would be perfect for this game so long as people understand that no online game is ever balanced for 1v1 matches, ever.

1v1 PvP are just e-peen contests.

But team battles like 3v3 can be really fun, anyone who disagrees with that is just wrong.

I know this because I'm pretty much right about everything...

ever. :[

Deathgeist
Mar 31, 2007, 01:23 AM
Kent you definitely are exaggerating a lot there. I have played tons of pvp games and one for example would be ragnarok online. there is a duel arena, and there is war of emperium, both are totally voluntary. I NEVER had someone come upto me in ragnarok and start harassing me to come to duel arena, the only way I would get harassed was if I went into duel arena and happened to run into some jerk. that also was very rare and when I did I simply put them on ignore.

If you make it a totally separate area like the duel arena in ragnarok, I guarantee people won't come to pve areas and lobbys trying to force people into duels. It isn't worth their time to harass pve people when there is a gaggle of people in the arena.

xXAlucard
Mar 31, 2007, 01:35 AM
PvP would be AWESOME in this game, as it would in any rpg....

I've played ragnarok online in the past, and even though it wasn't geared towards pvp, it was fun as hell

People saying "Well you'd get harassed or ppl would talk shit"...wtf do you think people do anyway? That's a stupid reason and not a valid one to oppose pvp, its like saying "Well they shouldn't have levels because people will eventually hack them or cheat to get the highest ones"....

The only real reason I've seen to even consider opposing it is that the classes may have to be re-balanced for it, but I highly doubt ST would do that just for pvp, and besides adding anything new like a voluntary PVP mode would be AWESOME for this game and help settle a lot of disputes, along with being fun to just play.

If your afraid of being harassed or whatever just blacklist anyone who starts doing so to you, its that simple.

I seriously hate when people have the worst reasons for not adding something NEW to a game...it reminds me when so many noobs on Halo 2 freaked out at the idea of an MLG gametype...and then look Team Hardcore is one of the all time favorites once its released years later...I really hate when a misguided majority can ruin the fun for so many ppl.

Angelo
Mar 31, 2007, 01:47 AM
PvP is actually a very good way to find out what classes need to be 'balanced'. For the devs AND players.

Yeah, it's not something everyone likes to hear.

I played City of Heroes, I dealt with the worst of the worst.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Angelo on 2007-03-30 23:48 ]</font>

Sexy_Raine
Mar 31, 2007, 01:50 AM
Only stupid WOW fanboys are the ones who want PvP. They don't belong on PSU, and lets hope Sega doesn't borrow any type of ideas for that game in the expansoin.

Alisha
Mar 31, 2007, 01:52 AM
*equips a caudecus and 1 shots Sexy_Raine with grants*

Angelo
Mar 31, 2007, 02:03 AM
WoW is an awful game.

I love PvP.

A paradox! Oh shi-

Weeaboolits
Mar 31, 2007, 02:10 AM
On 2007-03-31 00:03, Angelo wrote:
WoW is an awful game.

I love PvP.

A paradox! Oh shi-



ONOOOOoooooooezz!!! *annihilates*
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/flan.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ronin_Cooper on 2007-03-31 00:13 ]</font>

Sexy_Raine
Mar 31, 2007, 02:26 AM
On 2007-03-31 00:03, Angelo wrote:
WoW is an awful game.

I love PvP.

A paradox! Oh shi-



I did not think I'd ever see this kind of response, I'm speechless.

Deathgeist
Mar 31, 2007, 02:30 AM
On 2007-03-30 23:35, xXAlucard wrote:
PvP would be AWESOME in this game, as it would in any rpg....

I've played ragnarok online in the past, and even though it wasn't geared towards pvp, it was fun as hell

People saying "Well you'd get harassed or ppl would talk shit"...wtf do you think people do anyway? That's a stupid reason and not a valid one to oppose pvp, its like saying "Well they shouldn't have levels because people will eventually hack them or cheat to get the highest ones"....

The only real reason I've seen to even consider opposing it is that the classes may have to be re-balanced for it, but I highly doubt ST would do that just for pvp, and besides adding anything new like a voluntary PVP mode would be AWESOME for this game and help settle a lot of disputes, along with being fun to just play.

If your afraid of being harassed or whatever just blacklist anyone who starts doing so to you, its that simple.

I seriously hate when people have the worst reasons for not adding something NEW to a game...it reminds me when so many noobs on Halo 2 freaked out at the idea of an MLG gametype...and then look Team Hardcore is one of the all time favorites once its released years later...I really hate when a misguided majority can ruin the fun for so many ppl.



Very well put. I also mentioned Ragnarok for like PSU it is a very PvE based game but the voluntary PvP is extremely fun. I was in a pretty awesome guild/alliance in ragnarok when I played and the war of emperium castle wars were extremely exciting and even tho that part of the PvP was more competitive people were still really nice on the opposing guilds/alliances.

If the game is PvE based people that are huge PvPers and are obsessed with waving around their e-peen will not come to that game. They will goto a game like RF Online, WoW, or Guild wars just to name a few because they are much more PvP based and have a lot more to offer in those areas.

Ether
Mar 31, 2007, 03:28 AM
On 2007-03-30 19:57, Mewnie wrote:
PvP brings a whole new slew of PvP balancing issues to the table, which will effect PvE.

Thread ended here (2nd post) I don't know why people keep posting

Also, related: http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2004/03/pvp.html

Chiwassu
Mar 31, 2007, 08:32 AM
If you wanted to know why ..... b/c is boring... if people think over power someone is fun go play conquer
and remember the thing this game and the world need is call peace in mind! pvp will bring you nothign!

Sekani
Mar 31, 2007, 08:51 AM
On 2007-03-31 01:28, Ether wrote:

On 2007-03-30 19:57, Mewnie wrote:
PvP brings a whole new slew of PvP balancing issues to the table, which will effect PvE.

Thread ended here (2nd post) I don't know why people keep posting

Also, related: http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2004/03/pvp.html


The person who wrote that sounds like what MMO players refer to as a "carebear". Since then, WoW and Guild Wars have both come out, and I dare to say that they have successfully integrated PvP into an MMO. The difference between WoW and Guild Wars from FFXI and PSO was that the first two were designed from the ground up with PvP in mind. In the latter two it was tacked on as an afterthought, where it can NEVER work out well.

FFXI added PvP in the form of Ballista. Everyone tried it out for about a week, found out how pointless it was, then they all went back to leveling up and the mini-game was all but ignored.

PSO seemed like a better fit for PvP with more balanced (and similar) classes and real-time combat. I honestly didn't mess with it enough to give a first-hand opinion of why it failed, but I do remember that it was also more or less ignored after the first few weeks.

Another thing to mention is that in the latter two games, the classes were not rebalanced to cater to the PvP crowd, which destined PvP to be forever broken and left in the shadow of the PvE game.

I honestly can think of no reason why PvP would not share the same fate if it was added to PSU. Simply put, why bother adding anything that's destined to fail? There are other reasons already mentioned, like the combat mechanics favoring certain classes, possible player harassment (slightly exggerated by some, but it'll still happen), and a change in the players' overall mentality which will make working as a team in PvE more difficult.

As I wrap up this ridiculously long post I realize that anything I say is probably pointless, because all the logic in the world is powerless against the almighty e-peen, which cannot rest until it has found some way to prove that it is "better" than its peers, or perhaps even the entire server.

natewifi
Mar 31, 2007, 09:01 AM
All of you idiots are talking about how it will ruin the community and all that b/s, wtf are you talking about, this isnt real life, there is no community, and only 6 people can play pvp at a time, 6 people out of 2000 players is not a big defference. The community as you call it is already at the bottom it wouldnt make any difference at all, if you have a problem put them on your b-list, if you were to battle someone and they get mad and hate, then that should tell you that the person you were fighting maybe have not really been a person that you would have wanted to play with in the 1st place. Stop being such selfish babies, maybe you should rethink about who is real and who is not out of all your friends before you battle them dumbasses. Spam, scammers, hackers, leechers, and just hateful people are already on the servers, half of your guys bitching is way over exaggerated than it really is if we had PvP. When you call people noob and all that other nerd b/s of course there is going to be an arguement or w/e you guys just need to grow the fuck up and get real about the whole idea. If you love PSO so much the "community" had to have added on to that, because pso had pvp. Stop your fucking pathetic bitching and just deal.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: natewifi on 2007-03-31 07:13 ]</font>

Rashiid
Mar 31, 2007, 09:01 AM
9* Wand (Foie/Resta) + Electric Cards (to paralize hunter) + Har/Quick = AAAAAAKKKKKKKKKK

Rashiid
Mar 31, 2007, 09:04 AM
On 2007-03-31 07:01, natewifi wrote:
All of you idiots are talking about how it will ruin the community and all that b/s, wtf are you talking about, this isnt real life, there is no comunity, and only 6 peole can play pvp at a time 6 people out of 2000 players is not a big defference. The comunity as you cal it is already at the bottom it wouldnt make any difference at all, if you have a problem put them on your b-list, if you were to battle someon and they get mad and hate, then that should tell that the person you were fighting maybe have not really been a person that you would have wanted to play within he 1st place. Stop being such selfish babies, maybe you should rethink about whos real and who is not out of all your friends before you battle them dumbasses. Spam, scammers, hackers, leechers, and just hateful people are already on the servers, half of your guys bitching is way over exaggerated than it really is if we had PvP. Way you call people noob and all that other nerd b/s of course there is going to be an arguement or w/e you guys just need to grow the fuck up and get real about the whole idea. If you love PSO so much the "community" had to have added on to that, because pso had pvp. If you hate it that much you might as well hate PSO too, or you will just deal with it. Stop your fucking pathetic excuses to not have PvP.



sounds like u need to go back to Halo 2 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

natewifi
Mar 31, 2007, 09:06 AM
Btw half of you guys just have an issue with losing be honest about it seriously. This isnt WoW this isnt w/e those other life draining pc mace +1 MMORPG's, technically this is not a MMORPG, so it wont be that easy to jump you, if your good at action games. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: natewifi on 2007-03-31 07:15 ]</font>

Seira7
Mar 31, 2007, 09:43 AM
This thread was worth reading just for Mattardo's comments. Penis vs. Penis, that's priceless! Thanks for giving me the giggles ^-^

Ryo_Hayasa
Mar 31, 2007, 10:11 AM
I donno, personally. Yes i want Pvp, but only if it was controlled. Heck it COULD be worse. What if, what if it was like Some RO servers were PvP was everywhere?

Many a day i would be training with my lv.xxx Cross Assasin when a lv.xxx (atleast hundreds of levels higher than me) would run up to me (not even able to speak english) say something to me, and then wait for a response. Then attack me. either forcing me to run away and disappear (Assasin skill which makes you invisible to everyone else) Or die after using a good amount of money to get to that training ground in the first place.

Now, i haven't played MANY other Online RPGs atleast not the big ones, FFXI (well i did for like 30 minutes) and i haven't touched WoW. Is the "Omg u dual?" Concept really that bad? Are people REALLY that bad? really, with less of a populartion, can't we assume that there aren't nearly as many idiots who would run about like that? IF so, well. Personally I have alot of space on my BList for anyone who doesn't have an IQ over 14.

I think things like PvP and a "Special Time" or "boss" or special Guardian quest (like Bruce's) would spice things up.

come on, come on, honestly. Can you reall say the thought of... You and 3 of your friends testing out what it would be like, to fight against 3 other good friends? Just to see who's built the better character?

I know a particular female Beast Wartecher who's bouncing in her seat waiting for a chance to obtain her Frying pan, and then being able to beat me over the head with it.

Oh, how about this? Maybe not PvP but special Arena style PvE? Wouldn't that be cool.

Sychosis
Mar 31, 2007, 11:10 AM
On 2007-03-31 07:06, natewifi wrote:
Btw half of you guys just have an issue with losing be honest about it seriously.


We exaggerate about harassment? You're starting the harassment and PvP ISN'T EVEN IN THE GAME!!

Way to go nate!

xXAlucard
Mar 31, 2007, 11:14 AM
On 2007-03-31 01:28, Ether wrote:

On 2007-03-30 19:57, Mewnie wrote:
PvP brings a whole new slew of PvP balancing issues to the table, which will effect PvE.

Thread ended here (2nd post) I don't know why people keep posting

Also, related: http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2004/03/pvp.html



Whoever wrote that blog made himself look like a complete moron....

Why? Because he bases his whole argument on the fact that level 1 players wouldn't have fun getting owned in a second by higher level players in the arena...

Now in any game, if your a noob / level 1...you shouldn't be ABLE to even have a chance to kill higher leveled / more experienced people, and you should be staying away until you ARE high enough to handle it....duh....

"The level 1 wouldnt have any fun getting killed in one arrow, plus the fun is limited to the player killer as well..."

He says something like that somewhere, which makes the whole blog worth 0.

Kent
Mar 31, 2007, 11:35 AM
On 2007-03-31 09:10, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-03-31 07:06, natewifi wrote:
Btw half of you guys just have an issue with losing be honest about it seriously.


We exaggerate about harassment? You're starting the harassment and PvP ISN'T EVEN IN THE GAME!!

Way to go nate!



Geebus, just discussing the possibility of PvP being in the game, is already attracting them.

Weeaboolits
Mar 31, 2007, 11:39 AM
"The level 1 wouldnt have any fun getting killed in one arrow, plus the fun is limited to the player killer as well..."


Remember in PSO's PvP how if you died it'd make you grow like 10 levels? That alone makes that particular line completely irrelevent, as dieing just levels you up to help balance things out, also, it's an RPG, growing levels to get stronger is kind of the whole point.

Deathgeist
Mar 31, 2007, 12:59 PM
On 2007-03-31 09:35, Kent wrote:

On 2007-03-31 09:10, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-03-31 07:06, natewifi wrote:
Btw half of you guys just have an issue with losing be honest about it seriously.


We exaggerate about harassment? You're starting the harassment and PvP ISN'T EVEN IN THE GAME!!

Way to go nate!



Geebus, just discussing the possibility of PvP being in the game, is already attracting them.



Yet again another exaggeration. So ONE SINGLE PERSON came some good points just worded pretty rudely and in a slightly crude fashion, and that constitutes a comment like "just the discussion is already attracting THEM". I'm sorry but 1 person, is not THEM.

I've actually seen that nate guy post in the forums before and i'm gonna boldly assume that he didn't post sheerly to harass anyone. You people need to grow a thicker skin, just cause some guy aggressively expresses his opinion is no need to go crying "harassment!". If he pmed you perhaps, then yes! That would be harassment!

I think that's the biggest reason most of the people against PvP don't want even some kind of mode/arena in this game. Because their paranoid & nonexistant fear of being harassed would make them frightened of the simple fact that in the game they are playing there is an arena for PvP. Have an imagination and try to look at it from someone another point of view cause throughout this whole thread I've changed my mind a few times on whether it would work or not.

The ONLY argument so far that I can agree with somewhat is the whole balancing issue, but as one person said PvP can actually help balance PvE by finding out which classes are too strong on their own, or aren't strong enough on their own. And as another person said, even tho the PSO PvP system was lame in ways I didn't see that stop most of you from playing PSO? Why did most of you not stop? Because as we all know it didn't ruin what PSO was!

Sychosis
Mar 31, 2007, 01:17 PM
No, we're talking about the same jerk who flings insults when you make a joke, to a friend. Brash and ignorant, he's exactly the type of person I'd rather avoid. Can't blacklist him, my blacklist is full of assorted asshats. I have no room for the next wave.

Also, check out this (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=138878&forum=20&32) topic. 3 guesses as to where that would have led with PvP around.

It's that kind of @#%! we want to avoid.

MayLee
Mar 31, 2007, 01:20 PM
It sucked in the old game and it'll suck in the new one. Nuff said.

Deathgeist
Mar 31, 2007, 01:20 PM
lol i'd rather a sucky pvp mode like PSO's that nobody plays than none at all personally

Weeaboolits
Mar 31, 2007, 01:28 PM
On 2007-03-31 11:20, Deathgeist wrote:
lol i'd rather a sucky pvp mode like PSO's that nobody plays than none at all personally



I agree.

Mattardo
Mar 31, 2007, 01:38 PM
I want PVP for only one reason: my girlfriend ridicules me for being a human fortefighter and she has a beast fortefighter, so she likes to ask me how my stats are comparing. I was once a wartekker. I constantly tell her if pvp ever arrives, I'll shut her trap permanently. Of course, I would secretly change back to Wartekker and blast her from afar with Digas, card guns and dambarta. But on another note, I tired WOW for 1 hour to see what had gotten into my friend. The first 10 seconds I appearred in my little spawn area, I got challenges from the same person over and over and over. I finally agreed, and got my ass handed to me (not knowing any controls or even how to manuever with mouse and keyboard). And he STILL kept challenging me over and over. I had to leave and run into the wilderness to get away from him. I admit, seeing a protranser face down a fortefighter might be interesting. But as others have said, egos get involved and feelings get hurt. As for this game being a coop game.... remember that the next time someone dies on your team without a scape and you start cursing at him and calling him a noob. heh... noobies. Me like noobies. Touchy touchy

Lamak
Mar 31, 2007, 01:50 PM
Then there would be no people working together? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Angelo
Mar 31, 2007, 01:55 PM
Again, people aren't thinking outside of the box.

NO GAME

EVER (EVER)

THAT HAS DIFFERENT CLASSES/ROLES

WILL EVER BE BALANCED FOR 1v1 PvP!

Whereas 1v1 potentially 'weakens the community'

2v2 or 3v3 greatly strengthens it

Weeaboolits
Mar 31, 2007, 02:00 PM
On 2007-03-31 11:55, Angelo wrote:
Again, people aren't thinking outside of the box.

NO GAME

EVER (EVER)

THAT HAS DIFFERENT CLASSES/ROLES

WILL EVER BE BALANCED FOR 1v1 PvP!

Whereas 1v1 potentially 'weakens the community'

2v2 or 3v3 greatly strengthens it



Team based combat against another team of human players is better for developing teamwork skills than fighting a team of dumb-as-rocks Vahras http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Deathgeist
Mar 31, 2007, 02:01 PM
Ya I actually thought of a cool idea. We all know that nobody in game has even close to enuf hp to stop damage from higher lvl players, but what if they made some kind of crazy PvP event where a group of 2, 3 or 5 has to fight a gm controlled player with massive stats? It would be awesome IMO, you would have to do it as an event for the gm's wouldn't have enough people or enough time to keep it up daily, but if you had an event like that it would make for some awesome team pvp. It would be like fighting a gm controlled character with boss stats, and I guess being that it would be an event you would get some reward for being the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd team to down the gm during the event.

I dunno you all might think that sounds dumb but it looks cool in my head lol

mariwan
Mar 31, 2007, 03:09 PM
Go play Gunz online or something >.>

Hard to imagine PSU with PVP but id like to see an online game with the gameplay of Kingdom Hearts with PVP though X_X (wishful thinking)

Weeaboolits
Mar 31, 2007, 03:10 PM
On 2007-03-31 13:09, mariwan wrote:
Go play Gunz online or something >.>

Hard to imagine PSU with PVP but id like to see an online game with the gameplay of Kingdom Hearts with PVP though X_X (wishful thinking)



XD I jus' go0t Gunz last night http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Angelo
Mar 31, 2007, 03:18 PM
On 2007-03-31 13:09, mariwan wrote:
Go play Gunz online or something >.>

Hard to imagine PSU with PVP but id like to see an online game with the gameplay of Kingdom Hearts with PVP though X_X (wishful thinking)



A Kingdom Hearts MMO is the only thing that could tear me away from PSU.

Weeaboolits
Mar 31, 2007, 03:27 PM
On 2007-03-31 13:18, Angelo wrote:

On 2007-03-31 13:09, mariwan wrote:
Go play Gunz online or something >.>

Hard to imagine PSU with PVP but id like to see an online game with the gameplay of Kingdom Hearts with PVP though X_X (wishful thinking)



A Kingdom Hearts MMO is the only thing that could tear me away from PSU.



Me too, funny, as I generally hate all things Disney, and I didn't start playing FF until AFTER KH http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Mewnie
Mar 31, 2007, 05:14 PM
On 2007-03-31 06:51, Sekani wrote
The person who wrote that sounds like what MMO players refer to as a "carebear".


And that's what I refer to as a strawman.


Since then, WoW and Guild Wars have both come out, and I dare to say that they have successfully integrated PvP into an MMO.


Not quite. Class balance is out of whack STILL in WoW. Actually, even more so since TBC was released (looking at YOU, warlocks. Warriors? lol) I've played it since release: the same problems that plauged EQ haunt it's spiritual successor.

The devs of Guild Wars are constantly tweaking the skill sets due to FoTM and cheese builds. Not to mention GW is about as exciting to play as watching paint dry.. ON TOP of the average GW player being a mouth-breathing mongloid.



The difference between WoW and Guild Wars from FFXI and PSO was that the first two were designed from the ground up with PvP in mind. In the latter two it was tacked on as an afterthought, where it can NEVER work out well.


Guild Wars is the only one with PvP as the main draw. WoW is still Diku-Clone with PvP tacked on for the catasses when they're aren't grinding raid instances.

FFXI is what WoW would be without the PvP. It's EQ filtered through a AZNMMO lens (GRINDGRINDGRIND then GRIND some more)

and PSO isn't even in the same class. It's more a graphical Nethack/Diablo hack and slash and loot.



Another thing to mention is that in the latter two games, the classes were not rebalanced to cater to the PvP crowd, which destined PvP to be forever broken and left in the shadow of the PvE game.


re: City of Heroes and Jack Emmert saying, and I quote: "PvP will not effect the PvE game" lol

How many more failed PvPvE systems must we bear witness to before they finally get a clue that it DOES NOT WORK.


I can only hope Fury does a good job of bringing a good PvP-centric experience (where GW failed so miserably).



I honestly can think of no reason why PvP would not share the same fate if it was added to PSU. Simply put, why bother adding anything that's destined to fail? There are other reasons already mentioned, like the combat mechanics favoring certain classes, possible player harassment (slightly exggerated by some, but it'll still happen), and a change in the players' overall mentality which will make working as a team in PvE more difficult.

As I wrap up this ridiculously long post I realize that anything I say is probably pointless, because all the logic in the world is powerless against the almighty e-peen, which cannot rest until it has found some way to prove that it is "better" than its peers, or perhaps even the entire server.


P K B



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mewnie on 2007-03-31 15:15 ]</font>

Mattardo
Mar 31, 2007, 05:20 PM
Here's a solution for you: no stats or levels count. It'll be like fighting each other on an even basis. No powers. No nothing. The Tekken logo will appear and you will choose your fighter. Then the only excuse for losing will be your own inability, and not your class. I am offended and politically hurt that some of you would state that the difference in races, species and class would make a difference in a fight. My goodness, you ignorant savages. I thought we had progressed to the point in society where we could all get along regardless of race, class, sex or religion and we all had the same oppurtunities and abilities. That's right. Everybody's the same according to today's politically correct crap that the masses eat like chicken fodder. So logically, PVP should offer no problems in the class, race issues plagueing PSU. I mean, if Democrats swear to ...well, not God, umm to Jerry Garcia...yeh, If Democrats SWEAR to JG that everyone is the same, then who are we to argue against that? PVP for equals!

Mewnie
Mar 31, 2007, 05:24 PM
I know you have a point somewhere in that huge block of text.

But I'm too lazy to pick it out and make sense of it.

Mattardo
Mar 31, 2007, 05:29 PM
sigh. is THAT better?

Angelo
Mar 31, 2007, 05:34 PM
re: City of Heroes and Jack Emmert saying, and I quote: "PvP will not effect the PvE game" lol


Lolol, oh Statesman! When will you ever learn!

But really, there's nothing wrong with using PvP as a tool for developers to see which classes are grossly overpowered.

Miyoko
Mar 31, 2007, 10:36 PM
On 2007-03-31 15:34, Angelo wrote:


re: City of Heroes and Jack Emmert saying, and I quote: "PvP will not effect the PvE game" lol


Lolol, oh Statesman! When will you ever learn!

But really, there's nothing wrong with using PvP as a tool for developers to see which classes are grossly overpowered.


Hahaha, I remember that. PVP (which was the obvious cause of ED, despite what the devs say) is the reason I quit CoX, too. From what I see when my brother plays it, it's still unbalanced as hell, and the game has no new content since CoV. I cannot begin to explain the hate I have for Emmert's lies. :/

Angelo
Mar 31, 2007, 11:10 PM
Emmert is still an awesome guy, I've exchanged PM's with him before and I hear he's really friendly at conventions.

Kind've a good thing he's not head of the game anymore, Matt Miller/Positron is head of the game now, it seems to be shaping up and balancing nicely lately (Yeah, I still check the CoX boards, despite not playing it).

That game really is what taught me how fun PvP can be so long as you're playing with some friends in group vs group instead've one vs one. It not only takes the pressure of being singled out, but it strengenths communication, etc. I love <3 CoH/V, but I've moved on from it, maybe I'll return someday http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

DonRoyale
Mar 31, 2007, 11:12 PM
Because PSO's PvP was so horrible it's unable to be comprehended, and PSU <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< PSO >.>

Angelo
Mar 31, 2007, 11:18 PM
On 2007-03-31 21:12, DonRoyale wrote:
Because PSO's PvP was so horrible it's unable to be comprehended, and PSU <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< PSO >.>



Sychosis will not be pleased.

Miyoko
Mar 31, 2007, 11:31 PM
On 2007-03-31 21:10, Angelo wrote:
Emmert is still an awesome guy, I've exchanged PM's with him before and I hear he's really friendly at conventions.

Kind've a good thing he's not head of the game anymore, Matt Miller/Positron is head of the game now, it seems to be shaping up and balancing nicely lately (Yeah, I still check the CoX boards, despite not playing it).

That game really is what taught me how fun PvP can be so long as you're playing with some friends in group vs group instead've one vs one. It not only takes the pressure of being singled out, but it strengenths communication, etc. I love <3 CoH/V, but I've moved on from it, maybe I'll return someday http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Meh, can't say I agree. He may be friendly at conventions and such, but his attitude and direction with CoX was still tyrannical and unjustified. When I left, the community was really damaged in a lot of places, and hasn't been as friendly since (I poke around the forums a bit too, as I still have friends there). But, so long as we can agree to disagree... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I'm strongly against MMORPG PVP, as it's far too heavily dependant on gear, and who's the most overpowered at the time (don't try to argue -- Warlocks and Pallies are sooooo overpowered in WoW http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif). But, give me some good ol' TFC or Half-Life (no CS, CS is made of fail and suck), and I'll do some PVP any day. Skill based PVP > Gear / Imabalance based PVP.

Angelo
Mar 31, 2007, 11:50 PM
There was no gear in CoX, I guess maybe that's why it kinda worked there D:.

And I never said I agreed with the way Emmert ran his ship! I just said he was a nice guy, lol.

DonRoyale
Mar 31, 2007, 11:52 PM
On 2007-03-31 21:18, Angelo wrote:

On 2007-03-31 21:12, DonRoyale wrote:
Because PSO's PvP was so horrible it's unable to be comprehended, and PSU <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< PSO >.>



Sychosis will not be pleased.



lolk.

Miyoko
Mar 31, 2007, 11:54 PM
You think it worked? I thought it was worse than WoW... ;p Especially from what I hear my brother -constantly- bitching about, it sounds like the most unpleasant PVP experience ever. Certain archtype powersets just completely destroying everyone else, while certain others are nigh useless.

But I think we're getting a little too into CoX here... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Angelo
Mar 31, 2007, 11:59 PM
Yeah probably getting a bit too into CoX, lol, but still, yeah I definately think it worked and still does work. (Not to say it doesn't need some tweaking)

The thing is that, like I've been saying, most people in that game were basing PvP entirely on 1v1 scenarios. For example, Scrappers and Brutes were, admittedly, made to be the 'solo' archetype. But you can bet your ass that a Defender and a Tanker would wipe the floor against two scrappers.
(This coming from a Regen scrapper)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Angelo on 2007-03-31 22:00 ]</font>

Miyoko
Apr 1, 2007, 12:11 AM
That's what was nice about TFC's PVP. It doesn't matter what class you pit against another class, be it 1v1, 2v2, or 12v12, every single class can do -something- against another class. Easily the most balanced PVP I've ever seen.

If PSU could do the same, it wouldn't be so bad, but even so, I'd rather not have PVP come in and ruin the PVE.

Dragwind
Apr 1, 2007, 02:12 AM
One thing that is often mis-spread info is the fact that PvP will prove how one class pwns another. This is not the case at all -_-; Classes are meant for different situations, different stats, different playstyles. PvP is facing other players, not enemies. It does NOT prove that one class outshines another. =

ArchAngelMai
Apr 2, 2007, 05:12 PM
On 2007-03-30 19:58, Kent wrote:
It's a harassment issue.

"lawl u n00b, ill pwn you in pvp bring it"

"I'll pass, thanks."

"wut ur dam rite ur afrade of me"

Then proceeds to get everyone he can think of to harass you for declining the challenge.

That's how things work - PvP, even if completely voluntary, attracts these types of people, and it'd ruin what the game currently is. That's why people hate PvP and don't want it in here. You can deny it all you want, but that's what factually happens.

PvP feeds egos, and causes said fed egos to harass others, regardless of whether or not they accept the challenge, and regardless of what the outcome is.

The game is meant to be a co-operative game, not a competative one.


While I like PvP alot in games, your opinion is very well thought out. I wish had some way to counter it.(no sarcasm intended)If only egomaniacs weren't aloud to play. Like they have to take a test or something that decides whether there a Egomaniac or not. Of course, they wouldn't know that's what it was intended for. Just a thought.

DikkyRay
Apr 2, 2007, 05:18 PM
As a matter of fact, i love PSO's battle system. Cuz on PSOGCN, battle was fun. 1-6 was Ballin but nothing was more fun then wasteing your friends ass, reviving ihim, wasting it again....

Ibuka
Apr 2, 2007, 05:49 PM
I would like PVP mode in PSU.

Even though PSO Battle Mode was bad, me and like 10 or 12 friends always stayed in lobby 11 making battle mode games and playing Battle rule 2 3 4 or 6. And we all had fun with it.

Honsetly. I see PVP in PSU to be fun cause besides players fighting each other, I see other modes like racing since there Jet Ski's or maybe something like capture the flag or something with the Hover Tanks. etc. I see ST making diffrent types of player vs player modes in PSU in stead of fighting each other...

Or you can wait untill they make a PSU Ep3 Card Revolution XD J/K



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ibuka on 2007-04-02 16:12 ]</font>

Kinfante
Apr 2, 2007, 06:12 PM
PvP is the only TRUE way to proove who is the greatest!!

Sylpheed
Apr 2, 2007, 06:53 PM
L0l N00bZ0rz Fi3ht m3 n00b, t00 af7aId n00B?

And the harrassment continues....

Sychosis
Apr 2, 2007, 06:58 PM
On 2007-04-02 16:12, Kinfante wrote:
PvP is the only TRUE way to proove who is the greatest!!



There can be, ONLY ONE!

Rashiid
Apr 2, 2007, 07:05 PM
i think gun/wartechs would run it tho.

pretty much full attack + resta

RAWWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

PvP = Halo 2 w/ majic.