Ambition of Illuminus Reaction Thread. [Archive]

AC9breaker

Apr 5, 2007, 11:21 AM

My reaction: freaking awesome.

My opinion: People are saying a bunch of stuff about this expansion and how it going to be a revival for this game. I really don't see it. It is still the same game with just more. More is also putting it lightly, while this game obviously still isn't even been released yet, I'm willing to bet the amount of content on this expansion will be equal or slightly more to what we already have from PSU v1. Put together it makes for quite an impressive amount of content but for those who reached the level cap 2 days after the updates then cried about how the game was boring and went back to WoW. To those people I say this: Don't expect too much from this expansion. Its true this expansion is doing things alot better and alot more appealing from our v1 PSU. However all this is, is just bells and whistles. It does not address the problem those gmares have with this game. Its not greatly imaginative. as of yet, it has not done anything that will provide the sustanance that keeps the aforementioned players to this game. I see no C-mode or no type of B-mode or anything else that would keep those players interested. Something that would have definetly broaden this games audience. However it is still early and I have no definate knowledge if the capabailities for those two modes exist on this expansion. However, if what I have seen and experienced so far is what I can expect to get when the game is retailed, then the expansion isn't revolutionary as people have been touting it to be. I thoroughly love this game. I enjoy the ambiance, the style, the story, the music and most of all the gameplay. This expansion to me as adding to that experience. So if you are like me and you already find the stuff we have to be a bit overwhelming or quite satisfactory then you will definetly love this expansion.

So where as Version 1 PSU is like a 1990's Charger. This expansion of PSU is the equivalence of Sega taking that Charger and making it into a 1968 Charger. Totally badass.

Mewn

Apr 5, 2007, 11:33 AM

It looks like it's going to fix the flaws the original game had, or at least some of them, and I'm very excited to see what else we will get. The new Rozenom level is already one of my favourite levels (sadly, the Moatoob one suffers from the Moatoob 'meh' factor that seems to permeate the entire planet, despite the awesome De Rol boss).

I'm not sure that this will revive the game over here, but at any rate it is looking good.

toxic_rf

Apr 5, 2007, 11:38 AM

While this news and playtesting of the Beta is exciting and all, I think I'm just going carry on playing and enjoying PSU as I was, without planning future Acro classes, re-arranging my Photon Arts or thinking about room layouts.

Protransers get all S ranks now? That could be just like them having all A ranks in the original PSU. Forte's will most probably get a fair spread of exclusivity when it comes to S2 weapons, and Guntechers will bemoan not having S2 Bows.

I'm not purposefully being negative, it's good that we've seen some snippets of hands-on info, but things can, and probably will, change in the full release of AoI, so I'm not counting my chickens just yet.

It's like that pre-release screen of Fortefighter having all S ranks. Nothing is set in stone until the game is on the shelves. And even then...

Edit: Originally posted in the wrong topic, sorry lol

Flwl3ssCowboy

Apr 5, 2007, 11:39 AM

So much new content, i dunno what to start liking or wanting or getting first......

DDDDDDD:

Neith

Apr 5, 2007, 11:43 AM

Aside from thinking that Fortefighter got somewhat overlooked, the rest of the expansion stuff seems really interesting.

To me, it now seems like each class type will be built for a certain role, especially with the introduction of Acrofighter and Acrotecher.

Rozenom looks really cool from what I've seen, and the new clothes/weapons are pretty decent too (<3 Chain Sawd)

I can't help thinking that it's a desperate attempt to lure back more PSO players though- the amount of PSO-related things in the expansion is creepy.

Eleina

Apr 5, 2007, 11:45 AM

Wonder if drop rates will go from almost impossible -> possible if so the expansion will rock

[ This Message was edited by: Eleina on 2007-04-05 09:46 ]

A2K

Apr 5, 2007, 11:49 AM

On 2007-04-05 09:43, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Aside from thinking that Fortefighter got somewhat overlooked, the rest of the expansion stuff seems really interesting.

To me, it now seems like each class type will be built for a certain role, especially with the introduction of Acrofighter and Acrotecher.

Rozenom looks really cool from what I've seen, and the new clothes/weapons are pretty decent too (<3 Chain Sawd)

I can't help thinking that it's a desperate attempt to lure back more PSO players though- the amount of PSO-related things in the expansion is creepy.

That is a little bothersome... The core of the game still appears to be PSU, though, and that's what I feel is most important.

DoubleZero

Apr 5, 2007, 11:57 AM

On 2007-04-05 09:18, Magician wrote:
My enthusiasm is at an all-time high for the expansion.

1. Break-free grinding. What? Grinding's fun now? Hurmph?!

2. Mo weapons, mo classes, mo clothes, mo individualism.

3. Casino

The last thing I'd like to hear on is if ST is gonna tinker with PMs and synthing.

Are PM levels going up to compensate for these poor synth rates? Level 200 PMs perhaps?

And maybe some custom, name your own s-rank stuffs at some point?

Other than that, everything else is gravy.

Wait, wait.. Risk-free grinding? Where?

akratic

Apr 5, 2007, 12:01 PM

From players' descriptions of drops, it does sound like weapons are dropping more frequently. That would be nice, especially if they can add in varying percentage melee weapon drops. But maybe the droprates are skewed for the beta. Who knows.

There had better be s2 rank weapons or forte-classes have become pretty much dumb.

A2K

Apr 5, 2007, 12:03 PM

It was remarked on the "characteristic" page that the drop rates are much higher for the trial only. Testing and whatnot I guess.

Flwl3ssCowboy

Apr 5, 2007, 12:03 PM

i heard SOMEWHERE (forget the thread) of 15* weapons, so maybe those'll be S2? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

RadiantLegend

Apr 5, 2007, 12:06 PM

In the End ill still be a fF/fG even if we get shafted. And just tell stories of the once great days we used to have. XD

On the other hand, AT fits my new beast character. I think i can get used to 100% support. >_> <_< ......

Eleina

Apr 5, 2007, 12:06 PM

Meh it's only the trial version non definatif and the cons should get corrected so it will probably be awesome in the end as long as all the cons get said and fixed

Magician

Apr 5, 2007, 12:13 PM

On 2007-04-05 09:57, DoubleZero wrote:
Wait, wait.. Risk-free grinding? Where?

Post #169 in the AoI Q&A thread.

Here (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=139201&forum=20&start=165&180#169)

Akaimizu

Apr 5, 2007, 12:22 PM

The idea of sporting a Cowboy hat and stuff in the Casino is A+ material. I sooooo wanna be there. I always dreamed of getting the Cowboy feel in an online RPG, and this is as close as they get. *drools* More and more, is this place turning into something Tynselle could be quite at home in. The casino probably a place I could see Stints retiring to.

There's only one thing left. For Sega to actually include the existance of the Six Square Circus in the Storyline canon. Then their Jedi training, under my command, will be complete! *Oh. I regret that the Six Square Circus will be *quite operational* when your friends arrive.* Muahahahahaha!

*Tis a shame Tynselle wont become the first cowgirl-influence for the expansion due to that international delay. Kesara and Tynselle had that role for so long, already.*

[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-04-05 10:25 ]

Magician

Apr 5, 2007, 12:25 PM

On 2007-04-05 10:22, Akaimizu wrote:
The idea of sporting a Cowboy hat and stuff in the Casino is A+ material. I sooooo wanna be there. I always dreamed of getting the Cowboy feel in an online RPG, and this is as close as they get. *drools* More and more, is this place turning into something Tynselle could be quite at home in. The casino probably a place I could see Stints retiring to.

There's only one thing left. For Sega to actually include the existance of the Six Square Circus in the Storyline canon. Then their Jedi training, under my command, will be complete! *Oh. I regret that the Six Square Circus will be *quite operational* when your friends arrive.* Muahahahahaha!

Too bad Spin doesn't like PSU, he'd buy that hat in a heartbeat.

Akaimizu

Apr 5, 2007, 12:27 PM

I hope the hat doesn't cost too much. I want that hat real bad I can taste it. (To add some literal truth to the statement, I'll eat my hat).

Golto

Apr 5, 2007, 12:27 PM

For 15* stuff speculation, someone at psupedia hacked offline and there were unfinished 15* ores in the item data. So what color do you think the stars will be 13-15*? I'm thinking red.

[ This Message was edited by: Golto on 2007-04-05 10:27 ]

Axel3792

Apr 5, 2007, 12:28 PM

It's sad that many of Sega's addons are from the previous franchise... this one took a dive, so they called on the tried (and tired) and true PSO to answer the call.

I'll still check it out though.

Magician

Apr 5, 2007, 12:32 PM

On 2007-04-05 10:27, Akaimizu wrote:
I hope the hat doesn't cost too much. I want that hat real bad I can taste it. (To add some literal truth to the statement, I'll eat my hat).

If it's anything like the rest of the facial makeovers, 5k.

To add to that, I could see an awesome pic in the future. Just a gaggle of folks, all wearing the cowboy hats, "REGULATORS! Mount up!". Hehe.

[ This Message was edited by: Magician on 2007-04-05 10:39 ]

Esufer

Apr 5, 2007, 12:45 PM

I'll tell you what I want.

Fringey, messy long hair, with a DECENT headband.

Because I'm not a Vincent Valentine fanboy or anything.

SuperRygar

Apr 5, 2007, 12:50 PM

On 2007-04-05 10:27, Golto wrote:
For 15* stuff speculation, someone at psupedia hacked offline and there were unfinished 15* ores in the item data. So what color do you think the stars will be 13-15*? I'm thinking red.

[ This Message was edited by: Golto on 2007-04-05 10:27 ]

the offline stars are usually more than the same item online

but yeah, everything look good. im barely half finished with the content in PSU now so i'll be reeling when/if i get the expansion ^.^

Akaimizu

Apr 5, 2007, 12:51 PM

Of course, for coolness points, it would be fun if they had Ulala's Pistol, from Space Channel 5, for you to find. One of those secret weapons. No special sound-effect. Just the design.

Golto

Apr 5, 2007, 12:54 PM

SuperRygar: In offline they had names that aren't used yet for ores.
Anyone else notice how they changed the star coloring. Instead of all the stars being the same color now they are just for the 3 of the rank. Like an 8* would have 3 blue,3 light blue, and 2 green.

Akaimizu

Apr 5, 2007, 12:55 PM

Yeah. I noticed that. Looks more like a temperature meter or one of those audio peak meters for an equalizer.

[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-04-05 10:56 ]

Neggy

Apr 5, 2007, 01:02 PM

This is coming stateside, right? And it's coming to the PS2 stateside too, right?

A2K

Apr 5, 2007, 01:04 PM

On 2007-04-05 11:02, Neggy wrote:
This is coming stateside, right? And it's coming to the PS2 stateside too, right?

The announcement of an Xbox 360 version, which is much more popular on the Western side of things, pretty much solidifies this fact. No reason to assume otherwise.

Neggy

Apr 5, 2007, 01:09 PM

And our characters can carry over to the new PSU too, right?

If so, then much yays, all around.

Golto

Apr 5, 2007, 01:30 PM

The beta did so no reason why the finished game wouldn't carry over your online characters.

Apr 5, 2007, 01:34 PM

Reactions:

From the descriptions, Madoogs/Shadoogs totally blow. NO ONE SEEMS TO HAVE USED SLICER YET!

Acrofighter sounds terrible. Acrotecher sounds ok if I wanted to use wands.

I'm glad they fixed up the hybrid classes. Protransers handicap was their low stats at low job levels, so their fixed weapon uses makes sense.

Music <3<3<3

I'm so glad the only PSO thing I've seen is De Rolei. But there'll be more unfortunately. The GOOD part is, the AWESOME definately outweighs the PSO.

DurakkenX

Apr 5, 2007, 01:35 PM

my DL is stuck at 89.3% done currently so my reaction right no is a resounding "PFFFT"

Gryffin

Apr 5, 2007, 01:41 PM

ZOMGZOMGZOMGRAPPYINDAPOOOOL!

Rashiid

Apr 5, 2007, 01:44 PM

yes, this should make PSO complaining vets to finally shattap!

Sychosis

Apr 5, 2007, 01:45 PM

I'm absolutely hating this reverting to PSO easy mode.

I'm 99% certain I'm not picking up the expansion.

Rashiid

Apr 5, 2007, 01:48 PM

On 2007-04-05 11:45, Sychosis wrote:
I'm absolutely hating this reverting to PSO easy mode.

I'm 99% certain I'm not picking up the expansion.

so, your not gonna join us on PSU: Part 2?

n0o0o0o0oo0!!!

DoA5, see me!!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Akaimizu

Apr 5, 2007, 01:49 PM

There's actually a lot they're adding that has nothing to do with PSO. Sure, certain PSO-like things are brought in, but I think the majority of stuff I'm game for (gameplay-wise) looks new.

Dj_SkyEpic

Apr 5, 2007, 01:51 PM

Lvl 40 attack techs... vs lvl 50 buffs... This will pretty much make Fortetechers frontline fighters while the support will mainly come from Acrotechers. Interesting...

I wonder if I should stay Fortecher to cap attack techs to 40 first or switch to Acrotecher to cap buffs.

Oh... this interests me alot:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4955/level30hz9.jpg

Rashiid

Apr 5, 2007, 01:53 PM

im stayin Fortetecher, cauz i became force for attacking w/ spells, cauz for sum reason, constinantly spamming spells isnt boring......nto sure why.....

and, ill support, but i dont wanna be full-time support

Magician

Apr 5, 2007, 02:11 PM

Hmm, basic jobs being raised to a level 30 max?

The acro job class must require that.

I wonder if the advanced jobs will be getting a similar bump?

20 levels up, my goodness, what kind of equipment would require such stats?

Golto

Apr 5, 2007, 02:13 PM

Nice find Dj_SkyEpic, lvl 30 type cap? I know that is a basic type but still it gives credence to all the speculation about why we have some ridiculously high mpt rewards for some missions.

chibiLegolas

Apr 5, 2007, 02:25 PM

On 2007-04-05 11:04, A2K wrote:

On 2007-04-05 11:02, Neggy wrote:
This is coming stateside, right? And it's coming to the PS2 stateside too, right?

The announcement of an Xbox 360 version, which is much more popular on the Western side of things, pretty much solidifies this fact. No reason to assume otherwise.

Yes. But I thought the PS2 is dying or already dead. Well, I guess this expansion could be one of the last games to come out for the system. If not, I guess it's time to jump on 360 anyways. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Overall, I'm excited for the expansion.
The cowboy hat is se.xy and team search function that I missed is back from pso days. Funny enough, almost no one used it.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif'
At least this might stop all the text screaming for:
"LOOKING FOR S2 GAME!"
"2 S2 SPOTS OPEN!"

And I'm torn between my current GT or switch over to AT. Both roles are support. ATs pros are just support through techs. And GTs pros are support through SE. Guess I'll just have to wait to hear any news on the improvements on bullets 31+.
SE5 anyone? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-04-05 12:27 ]

Ryoki

Apr 5, 2007, 02:27 PM

Now I have to decide between Acrotecher, Fighgunner, or AcroFighter. Acrotecher is the most tempting, but i don't know how a beast would do on it, but beast Acro sounds a bit like humar.

oh, and it better come out of ps2.

[ This Message was edited by: Ryoki on 2007-04-05 12:30 ]

Eleina

Apr 5, 2007, 02:29 PM

On 2007-04-05 11:51, Dj_SkyEpic wrote:
Lvl 40 attack techs... vs lvl 50 buffs... This will pretty much make Fortetechers frontline fighters while the support will mainly come from Acrotechers. Interesting...

I wonder if I should stay Fortecher to cap attack techs to 40 first or switch to Acrotecher to cap buffs.

the choice in using badass magic or mega buffs is easy for me...no way i'm gonna do a buff party to get super buffs and no way i'm gonna sit in LL surrounded by pannon for debuffs. i just hope some ppl don't think like me so i'll get to party with ATs for some cool buffs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Dj_SkyEpic

Apr 5, 2007, 02:30 PM

I was thinking of staying Fortetecher all the way, hun ;D

Ryoki

Apr 5, 2007, 02:32 PM

If they release a Lavis Cannon Replica, there would be no argument. I would be a Acrotecher. But if they don't...Shakes fist.

SuperRygar

Apr 5, 2007, 02:35 PM

maybe they'll advertise this time around!!!!!!...*gets hopes up* ^.^

Ash1ey

Apr 5, 2007, 02:39 PM

Each time I hit refresh on the screenshots page, I get more and more excited.

Reginaldo

Apr 5, 2007, 02:48 PM

Well Reggie, goodbye Fighgunner, hello Acrofighter. *put's crea doubles in dusty storage room*

UNLESS, this means with the increase in Base Class Max Levels, Expert Classes goes up as well. In that case, I only have Fighgunner (among the other expert classes I've maxed on this character) a third of the way maxed! D:

Zorafim

Apr 5, 2007, 02:56 PM

None of the new classes seem to interest me, at least compared to what fortefighter already has. I guess I just like meleeing things to death. I'm liking the added ranged levels, though. Maybe my damage won't be so terrible with ranged weapons (of which we have one).

The LFG function interests me. Maybe now it won't be so hard to find a party in areas that aren't current hot spots. I wonder how it'll be implemented.

And, the away messages seem interesting as well. Maybe I can get my PM to welcome whoever comes in.

mariwan

Apr 5, 2007, 02:59 PM

Protransers get a huge upgrade >.> yay....

KamiSori

Apr 5, 2007, 04:36 PM

im pretty dissappointed casts still cant change their face. i really want this new cast face.

http://www.psu-odyssey.com/Images/divers/psu_illuminus_beta_image22.jpg

also i wanted to change to a human face so that if i want to wear the new casual gear i dont look like a bafoon.

*sigh* maybe theyll change this before the actual release. i am pleased to see that the room deco grid has been drastically expanded.

Flwl3ssCowboy

Apr 5, 2007, 04:38 PM

On 2007-04-05 14:36, KamiSori wrote:
im pretty dissappointed casts still cant change their face. i really want this new cast face.

http://www.psu-odyssey.com/Images/divers/psu_illuminus_beta_image22.jpg

also i wanted to change to a human face so that if i want to wear the new casual gear i dont look like a bafoon.

*sigh* maybe theyll change this before the actual release. i am pleased to see that the room deco grid has been drastically expanded.

i lol'd at the first face

Lamak

Apr 5, 2007, 04:46 PM

I think I'm going to go fap. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

RadiantLegend

Apr 5, 2007, 04:50 PM

Dragon cast Face FTW.

SE lv5 would be nice to have.

Lamak

Apr 5, 2007, 04:52 PM

Wartecher to the heart.

SolomonGrundy

Apr 5, 2007, 04:53 PM

the really fixed grinding. breaking weapons is pretty sucky.

fixing synthing should be next. spending $$$ on boards and countless hours hunting mats to get a...dimate. Is just wrong.

They over-helped hybrids too much. I understand some of the rebalance of skills/bullets/techs, but some I just don't.

Madoogs help guntechers and Wartechers, Shadoogs don't really help anyone.

New clothers/rooms/haristyles are nice icing on the cake (but you gotta like the cake first, right?)

Dj_SkyEpic

Apr 5, 2007, 04:57 PM

I wonder if lvl 50 Debuffs will be able to tag bosses o.O?

Lamak

Apr 5, 2007, 04:59 PM

Doubt it. The funny thing is people are jumping the gun like they always do. (stupid humanity) This is a beta.....all of this stuff might be changed by our version. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Zantra

Apr 5, 2007, 05:01 PM

I think it's good that they are trying to blend old elements of PSO (mags, unbreakable weapon grinding, old PSO costumes), with the new elements of PSU. I just hope that they don't screw it up.

VanHalen

Apr 5, 2007, 05:02 PM

I think it looks great. I think my newman will have two jobs to swtich from Fortefighter and Arcrofighter(melee newman ftw!). All the other stuff looks pretty good too(though I know no one is gonna use the casino http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif ). I'm just kinda disappointed they added so much PSO stuff in it. I wanted to see some new ideas.

mariwan

Apr 5, 2007, 05:03 PM

(PS2/pc)Not sure if i should talk about this in this thread but even if we do get the expansion and with all our stuff transffering to the expansion...well....errr...the whole haxeta,dupes, will be carried over right? shouldnt SEGA of America do something about this? Cause it wont be as exciting to play the expansion with stuff like 99999999 meseta...just wouldnt feel right if all those stuff arent dealt with before its release. This is the reaction thread after all http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

RadiantLegend

Apr 5, 2007, 05:06 PM

I say only lvs should carry over. Although i'd hate to part with my pikors *weeps*

Lamak

Apr 5, 2007, 05:06 PM

There are no more hax nubber. :|

mariwan

Apr 5, 2007, 05:17 PM

Sure no more hacks are there...im talking about the aftermath with all the remaining dupes,and haxed meseta they need to be dealt with cause its like saying.."i have so much cash...wtf do i do with it? Im really selfish so i dont wanna give it away..but i can easily gain all that back with the items i can sell..but then again the items i bought with the meseta i made before are duped...its no fun if i cant grind for cash...i miss those days when i did over 100 de ragan c runs just to gain 50k meseta >.>; dammit i quit..." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif yeah its what i said when i quit PSU 2 months ago,though i got back like 2 weeks ago. Trying to say though is we seriously need a wipe on this stuff cause its both good for us and SEGA of America.

Lamak

Apr 5, 2007, 05:19 PM

Lol most of the money is either gone or being spent to NPCs for mass synths. It's gonna all be gone in about 3 months.

mariwan

Apr 5, 2007, 05:23 PM

Meh im just still feeling irritated that the prices are freaking jacked up..(player shops)

I dont really care about how many people become poor if there was a wipe...heck maybe a bunch of new players will come to PSU and next thing you know theres like 7 full stars for the first time in PSU(wishful thinking)

VanHalen

Apr 5, 2007, 05:28 PM

The only sad thing is. This expansion will be very very good(even normal PSU is very good) but people will quit saying "ZOMG not liek PSO I'm gonna spam the fourmz wit reasons why it'z not". You know how glad I am that that phase ended? I don't want to see it again.

Dj_SkyEpic

Apr 5, 2007, 05:44 PM

Hmmm... so if weapons dont break anymore and just revert back to 0 grind... Would mean that a lot of people will be satisfied but the grind rate may be harder o.O

Kaloa

Apr 5, 2007, 05:48 PM

On 2007-04-05 15:06, Ragolismine wrote:
I say only lvs should carry over. Although i'd hate to part with my pikors *weeps*

That would suck, considering the hundreds of hours alot of us have put into hunting for the holiday drops (among other things..). What's the use of hunting for anything rare if we know it's only going to be wiped in a year? I wouldn't mind my money being reset to 0, but to lose all the items we've found and synthed? The 50%'s we're so proud of? The rare armors and weapons with the insanely low drop and synth rates? It would be a pain to start the expansion with our high levels and no appropriate equipment to see us through the appropriately ranked missions. If they ever announce they will be wiping all our equipment when we switch to the expansion I will quit PSU right then and there. Having already maxed my levels, I don't have anything to do but hunt for rare units and weapons, and I see no point in wasting the coming months doing so if I won't get to keep them.

Zantra

Apr 5, 2007, 06:17 PM

Why do people think that anything is going to be wiped? All other MMO's don't wipe anything when a new expansion comes out.

Kupi

Apr 5, 2007, 06:28 PM

On the one hand, I really want to start preparing for the expansion, since I'm jumping ship from Wartecher to Acrotecher as soon as it hits. On the other hand... it'll hit the States in what, a year? XP What to do, what to do...

Parn

Apr 5, 2007, 06:31 PM

Really looks like I'll be switching to Acrofighter when the game hits...

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 5, 2007, 06:52 PM

My human is SO gonna go Acrofighter in this expansion, I mean, S rank twin sabers without being associated with all those Double Saber lovers, I'm loving that. And his hair is gonna undergo a change too, either of these 2 will be his new hairstyles:
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n293/itslovejuice/psu/aoi_boys/h1-3.jpg
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n293/itslovejuice/psu/aoi_boys/h3-3.jpg

Tystys

Apr 5, 2007, 07:05 PM

Well, if all goes well, I'm pretty sure Sega is going to want to aim for a Holiday release of this year, mainly because of the fact that PSU is starting to do badly in the US.

Personally, I'm extremely happy their bringing a good dose of PSO to PSU. It's going to make the game rock like it's never rocked before, http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

RadiantLegend

Apr 5, 2007, 07:07 PM

This is what the game should have been from the get go.

DavidNel

Apr 5, 2007, 07:20 PM

Yep, this stuff looks awsome! I can't wait to get it. Actually, I'm leveling up a human now so he can go Arco. Of all the old stuff they are puttin in this game, are they including mines? That is the only level I really have to play... I NEED TECHNOLOGY!!! All the new weapons and suck will make this game sooooooo much better. I can't wait! *explodes*

omegapirate2k

Apr 5, 2007, 07:22 PM

I think I might switch to acrofighter, from what I've heard and seen, that class seems to best fit my playstyle.

Mikaga

Apr 5, 2007, 07:37 PM

First thing's first: Wartecher badly needed this boost. I'm glad they got it.

Now, here's what I would have personally benefitted from in such an expansion:

------------

• Humans & Newmans being made non-awful through the means of one or more of the following:
- A greater ratio of classes with the highest level of TECHNIC PAs.
- Actual technic resistance. As a non-Fortetecher a Human/Newman takes ~12-16 less damage from a technic than a Cast which has ~500 more HP.
- A racial special ability.
- Stat increases.
- Making EVP useful instead of harmful. Possibly by simply removing your combo-stopping block animation.

• A CAST nerf. Seriously, they're fantastic at anything that doesn't demand strong offensive technics. Their "zomg low MST" is more than compensated for by their massive HP increase.

• The removal of server-side damage calculations. "Oh noes damage cancel" my foot. Try casting Diga on two helpless C-Rank enemies only to discover that both hit the first enemy because the first hit took ~1.5 seconds for the damage to process. That's damage cancel.

• New TECHNICs, because if we're gonna get a whole slew of new Melee and Bullet PAs...

------------

...so, did any of that happen? Apparently not. Kudos to Sega for fixing every flaw I'd considered the game to have except the ones that affected me. ;_;

Allison_W

Apr 5, 2007, 07:45 PM

Ohmigod I am horny for this expansion right now.

Acrofighter and Acrotecher both sound lovely; I'll invariably end up playing both. The former because one of my characters (Oleander Bree, whom I started prepping for FG before deciding another one of my characters would get that class; now I'm thinking GT for now, and w00t on GTs getting S-rank bows!) was conceived as a versatile, roguish scrapper who's big on agility in melee; the latter because one of my characters (Allison Wilder) was conceived as a "white mage" type, and I love mixing melee and casting (I've already been prepping her for WT). Additionally, a third fighter-type class lets me divvy up the original two between Janie and my eventual CASTazon.

Whips look just whoahdiggy schweet. New hairstyles, too, though I'm kind of disappointed in the accessories they've shown thus far (no new glasses? no ability to mix glasses and hats? no ability to pick any glasses for any hairstyle? no plain hairbands/headbands, plain goggles, or cowboy hats for the girls? what about changing colours on headgear so it matches outfits? I'd boo, but this might yet be changed).

Posters = winburger

facial expressions = love

new levels + new, if familiar, enemies + better music = jawesomeness

Weapons no longer breaking on a grind = sexalicious; grind rates going in the crapper = sucky in the bad way.

I'd like to get the dope on slicers, though. Hope that comes in soon. Wouldn't hurt if we knew the requirements for the Acro-classes (I'm aware there aren't currently any requirements, but that that's clearly not the intent), too, so I could make sure my characters are ready as possible when the expansion hits.

Ash1ey

Apr 5, 2007, 07:48 PM

On 2007-04-05 17:45, Allison_W wrote:
Ohmigod I am horny for this expansion right now.

I couldn't have said it any better.

Soukosa

Apr 5, 2007, 07:49 PM

They've been planning to make items over 12* since the game was first made it seems. This was found in the current game's data:

[B] Ore C. 9->10*
[B] Ore C. 10->11*
[B] Ore C. 11->12*
[B] Ore C. 12->13*
[B] Ore C. 13->14*
[B] Ore C. 14->15*

[B] Metal conv. A->S
[B] Metal conv. S

[B] Wood conv. A->S
[B] Wood convert S

Note the names of the wood and metal convertor boards. It seems they intend to have basicly two types of S ranks. The first type being from 10*~12* and using the current S rank materials. The second type being from 13*~15* and will use materials that haven't been released yet. The last wood and metal boards will be used to convert the first type to the second type (assuming they release it). So there will not likely be an "S2" rank since not only would more than one letter not fit in the space they put the ranks but wouldn't they show up in the class equip window?

For those of you who thing the hybrids now make the fortes worthless, you are very wrong. The fortes excel at their role more than the hybrids do and will always surpass them in that area. They have PP cost reduction on their main type of PAs which can make quite a difference, especially on gunners and techers with the higher PP PAs. They also have higher stats in the areas that help them out. I imagine with the class type going up to lv 30, they'd be even stronger in those areas than the hybrids. Fortefighters for instance will continue to have the highest HP, ATP, and DFP in the game and will likely turn into quite a beast that the other classes will pale in comparison of. If you're so worried about S rank weapons than something's wrong, since weapon selection is only a small part of what makes up a class. PTs getting S ranks doesn't change the fact they have sub par stats and suck to high hell to get going. You'll probably only still see those that like PTs now playing them later on.

With that done, I'm rather impressed with how ST is handling things, especially with the classes. WTs getting S rank wands and GTs getting S rank longbows are long over due. Giving lv 30 support techs to GTs also helps out greatly with their support nature. I'm also happy to see that FTs didn't get the highest level support techs but rather gave them to a new class. I've been wanting a class like the Acrotecher, that's high on support with good melee and ranged abilities. Kinda like a spruced up version of the WT that's oriented to support. Also, from what I've heard, Madoogs seem more like something for support techs, which goes even better with ATs. Being able to debuff enemies while meleeing would be quite awesome to me. The S rank cards with high bullets would go nicely with a good wand for healing and curing while fighting bosses. I've found that to be a rather nice combo to me in such cases.

Lamak

Apr 5, 2007, 07:54 PM

I think Acrotecher and Acrofighter are beta only so suck it.

KamiSori

Apr 5, 2007, 07:57 PM

as a cast i hate to say it but i agree with Mikaga. either Casts need a serious nerf or Humans need a serious buff. Casts beat humans in every single class except Fortetecher and Protranser (and possibly wartecher but its still debatable). i dont mind if Humans and Newmans get special abilities or not but at the very least they need to make some acceptable Crea Weapons to balance out the game. IMO humans are currently getting shafted worse than any race. the only way to make them truly useful is by actually playing all types, which, with a 36 PA limit, is pretty much pointless.

Lamak

Apr 5, 2007, 07:59 PM

Nah newmans are getting the rape fest. They are only good at one class and have no special and low stats.

Flwl3ssCowboy

Apr 5, 2007, 08:12 PM

On 2007-04-05 17:57, KamiSori wrote:
as a cast i hate to say it but i agree with Mikaga. either Casts need a serious nerf or Humans need a serious buff. Casts beat humans in every single class except Fortetecher and Protranser (and possibly wartecher but its still debatable). i dont mind if Humans and Newmans get special abilities or not but at the very least they need to make some acceptable Crea Weapons to balance out the game. IMO humans are currently getting shafted worse than any race. the only way to make them truly useful is by actually playing all types, which, with a 36 PA limit, is pretty much pointless.

please no

Mikaga

Apr 5, 2007, 08:56 PM

Just a quick excercise for you all: List the 9 expert types in this beta (though Acro isn't technically "expert"...), and think about how each race does at it.

You could even be objective. Give the best race 3 points, the second-best 2 points, the third-best 1 point and the worst 0 points. Even split it so if there are two possible "bests" in your mind or what you think people would believe, give both 2.5 points.

Then sum up all the points for each race. I get the following results:

Casts: 20 points.
Humans: 11 points.
Beasts: 10 points.
Newmans: 5 points.

I should also make note that Casts beat both Humans and Newmans for every type except Fortetecher.

Ash1ey

Apr 5, 2007, 09:00 PM

After watching Ether's Photon whip video I have to say... SWEET. They look real fun, and i look forward to trying them ot my self http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Thank you Ether for posting the video http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Guarionex

Apr 5, 2007, 09:07 PM

After seeing so many pics and a few videos, I think I passed from liek omg to LIKE OMG!!!1111one!eleventyone!!1

That is all. With the new caps, I guess that when I get bored, I'll switch my fighgunner to fortegunner, just to raise her bullets over 20, now that I know sh'll be able to use them in the expansion. Same goes for my guntecher (time to level up those buffs over 10! Yay!)

VanHalen

Apr 5, 2007, 09:27 PM

On 2007-04-05 17:54, Lamak wrote:
I think Acrotecher and Acrofighter are beta only so suck it.

I wouldn't doubt it. I think also the protranser having all those S-ranks is a beta thing too. Hopefully Fortefighters do have lvl 20 bullets at the end of the beta trial and if they don't oh well.

Rashiid

Apr 5, 2007, 09:28 PM

On 2007-04-05 17:54, Lamak wrote:
I think Acrotecher and Acrofighter are beta only so suck it.

well thats perhaps the stupidest thing i ever heard....

on the side note....

i might turn BulletMaster into Guntech now.

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 5, 2007, 09:50 PM

On 2007-04-05 17:37, Mikaga wrote:
First thing's first: Wartecher badly needed this boost. I'm glad they got it.

Now, here's what I would have personally benefitted from in such an expansion:

------------

• Humans & Newmans being made non-awful through the means of one or more of the following:
- A greater ratio of classes with the highest level of TECHNIC PAs.
- Actual technic resistance. As a non-Fortetecher a Human/Newman takes ~12-16 less damage from a technic than a Cast which has ~500 more HP.
- A racial special ability.
- Stat increases.
- Making EVP useful instead of harmful. Possibly by simply removing your combo-stopping block animation.

• A CAST nerf. Seriously, they're fantastic at anything that doesn't demand strong offensive technics. Their "zomg low MST" is more than compensated for by their massive HP increase.

• The removal of server-side damage calculations. "Oh noes damage cancel" my foot. Try casting Diga on two helpless C-Rank enemies only to discover that both hit the first enemy because the first hit took ~1.5 seconds for the damage to process. That's damage cancel.

• New TECHNICs, because if we're gonna get a whole slew of new Melee and Bullet PAs...

------------

...so, did any of that happen? Apparently not. Kudos to Sega for fixing every flaw I'd considered the game to have except the ones that affected me. ;_;

I agree fullheartedly with you, CASTs are really the most spoiled race in this game. And it would be cool if Evasion didn't stop PAs so that having more of it would be good for Hunters.

[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-04-05 19:53 ]

Rashiid

Apr 5, 2007, 09:53 PM

i think i realized why Newmans done get anything....

we die too fast we couldnt pull a summon off if we wanted to http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 5, 2007, 09:56 PM

Well, Sega has enough hatred for Newmans in PSU.

Zorafim

Apr 5, 2007, 10:13 PM

Those slicers look amazing. As a PSII fan, I approve.

And for Newman hating, non-tech newmen are alot better than tech casts. Any stats that are low are made up for by other stats (ata vs atp, for instance). It's still a poor substitute, and simply removing eva locking on PAs would make newmen alot better. Even with that, though, they still won't be up to par with our beloved Myao (or hunewearls for you new fans).

DoubleZero

Apr 5, 2007, 10:13 PM

It's a shame that Newmen get pigeonholed into the Fortetecher role, stat-wise. It seems like all other races can be at least viable because of their durability, with CASTs on top for being sturdy, accurate -and- powerful at the same time.

I brought my newman from PSO, and she was built to tear things apart with big scary weapons. I made her in PSU, and she's nowhere near as menacing as a Wartecher at 28, running around with dinky 3* weapons, as all her ATP will allow.

Flwl3ssCowboy

Apr 5, 2007, 10:23 PM

On 2007-04-05 19:50, Shiroryuu wrote:

On 2007-04-05 17:37, Mikaga wrote:
First thing's first: Wartecher badly needed this boost. I'm glad they got it.

Now, here's what I would have personally benefitted from in such an expansion:

------------

• Humans & Newmans being made non-awful through the means of one or more of the following:
- A greater ratio of classes with the highest level of TECHNIC PAs.
- Actual technic resistance. As a non-Fortetecher a Human/Newman takes ~12-16 less damage from a technic than a Cast which has ~500 more HP.
- A racial special ability.
- Stat increases.
- Making EVP useful instead of harmful. Possibly by simply removing your combo-stopping block animation.

• A CAST nerf. Seriously, they're fantastic at anything that doesn't demand strong offensive technics. Their "zomg low MST" is more than compensated for by their massive HP increase.

• The removal of server-side damage calculations. "Oh noes damage cancel" my foot. Try casting Diga on two helpless C-Rank enemies only to discover that both hit the first enemy because the first hit took ~1.5 seconds for the damage to process. That's damage cancel.

• New TECHNICs, because if we're gonna get a whole slew of new Melee and Bullet PAs...

------------

...so, did any of that happen? Apparently not. Kudos to Sega for fixing every flaw I'd considered the game to have except the ones that affected me. ;_;

I agree fullheartedly with you, CASTs are really the most spoiled race in this game. And it would be cool if Evasion didn't stop PAs so that having more of it would be good for Hunters.

[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-04-05 19:53 ]

I'm a cast-user and i agree with this^

partly because i dont want Sega to Über-super-nerf the casts later D:

omegapirate2k

Apr 5, 2007, 10:34 PM

It could be worse, casts could be immune to most status effects as well.

Zorafim

Apr 5, 2007, 11:04 PM

I just saw the whip video, and I must say it was very impressive. One handed, and it had an insane AoE. It didn't look like it had a limit to target enemies.

EspioKaos

Apr 5, 2007, 11:42 PM

Looking at the casino pictures, it seems the Vol Bros. finally made it big. The casino is actually named after them! It's called Casino Volyale. (You know, like Casino Royale, the James Bond novel.) Also, check out the Vol Slots (their name, not mine); you'll see pictures of the Vol Bros. in the slot machine's spinning window along with all the other icons. And the currency used here is known as Vol Coins.

ShadowTH1000

Apr 5, 2007, 11:59 PM

Hey! I'm in the beta... I like it, but I'm still trying to figure out everything... I'll post some of my pics on the other thread later.

Baku

Apr 6, 2007, 12:23 AM

*drools* guess I'm staying WT now ^=^

Nai_Calus

Apr 6, 2007, 09:26 AM

After much thought I'm not all that sure Fortetechers are getting fucked if Acrotechers can only use A-Rank Wands and S-Rank Madoogs for casting those L50 support techs, considering how costly buffs and debuffs are. Fortetechers still have their Rods, and they still have their PP cost reduction on techs. So Acrotechers might be able to do it a bit better, but it's the Fortetechers who can keep it up.

Though I may have to make Nai Acrotecher someday instead of Wartecher. Acrotecher looks interesting and like it might be more or less about as close to a FOmar-like style of play as one would get in PSU. (STFU, I loved FOmar. Slightly crappy but still workable melee, *and* you were still a fully-realised Force. Good times.)

I vastly, vastly approve of the new male hairstyles, as one of them is Nai's *exact* hairstyle. A bit shorter, actually, but still, the exact style. Sadly Elly still won't have anything close to her proper hairstyle. :<

Nevermind Ma/Shadoogs, although there'd better be a goddamned Rati in there somewhere, and it better be a Madoog so Nai can have one someday, but there apparently still isn't something that there is a vast, vast need for: Goddamned male PMs. What if I want shoutabait following me around instead of Lolibait? What if I want to give my PM a male name and not have it end up being as stupid as Ethan naming his PM Pete? D< I demand justice! I just want a little tiny blonde bishounen running around after Elly someday, instead of a little blonde lolita like I'm currently planning for. DX

Oh well. No hope of that last one, too many people like lolitas. XP

Sychosis

Apr 6, 2007, 09:33 AM

On 2007-04-06 07:26, Ian-KunX wrote:
After much thought I'm not all that sure Fortetechers are getting fucked if Acrotechers can only use A-Rank Wands and S-Rank Madoogs for casting those L50 support techs, considering how costly buffs and debuffs are. Fortetechers still have their Rods, and they still have their PP cost reduction on techs. So Acrotechers might be able to do it a bit better, but it's the Fortetechers who can keep it up.

With a 6 minute duration, the cost will be negligible for an AT.

DoubleZero

Apr 6, 2007, 09:40 AM

My question: Since the some of the PSO mags are appearing for the new Ma/Shadoog weapons, Will Opa Opa be a rare Shadoog, or Madoog? My money is on Shadoog, because Fantasy Zone was a shooter game, and since it would be rare, it could shoot all the special weapons it had (Laser Beam, Twin Shot, maybe drop some bombs or something).

Too bad my fortefighter can't use Shadoogs... Because I'd love to have an Opa Opa following him again.

[ This Message was edited by: DoubleZero on 2007-04-06 07:41 ]

Flwl3ssCowboy

Apr 6, 2007, 09:47 AM

Sato -doogs lol

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 09:53 AM

Ripping support technics from Fortetecher doesn't hurt Fortetecher all that much - In essence they don't need to worry about buffing anymore unless there's no Acrotecher or Guntecher - but it DOES hurt Newman.

"zomg Guntecher and Acrotecher are techer so Newmans will be good at them" is a bit of a joke, because they have rubbish ATTACK technics. Non-Resta Support techs (buffs, debuffs, Reverser, probably Rentis and Dizas) don't even use TP! So Acrotecher and Guntecher are CAST-friendly because their low TP isn't a problem, and their high HP/ATP/ATA/DFP is otherwise flawless.

Really the most important stats in this game that races play a part of are HP, ATP, ATA, DFP, EVP (lower is better) and TP.

Now look at Casts - Of that list, they have the best (or damn close to it) in every stat except TP which only matters for one class. Compared to Newmans who have abominable stats for four of those six, and their only good one (TP) is useful for the same one class.

The overall trouble is, unless they're going to massively screw about with the effects of TP (eg by making buffs/debuffs/reverser TP-dependant somehow) OR rebalance the stats, Newmans are going to end up awful. Humans too, are still rendered obsolete by Casts, but not quite as much.

The best example is - All the Hunter types. Beasts and Newmans are typically ONLY good at their type, Hunters and Forces respectively. So why are Casts fantastic Hunters? If they followed the pattern of the other two specialist races, they should have at least lower ATP than Humans.

[ This Message was edited by: Mikaga on 2007-04-06 07:56 ]

Scion

Apr 6, 2007, 09:59 AM

It's a very tough decision between staying as a Fortetecher, or switching to an Acrotecher. I mean, I felt all high and mighty with my level 30 healing/buff/debuff techs that no one else can use XD. But with Acrotechers being able to have them at 50 but only having level 30 attack techs, while Fortetechers have them both at 40, it puts me in a dilemma of sorts. My friends (Fortetecher friends, mind you) want me to go Acrotecher for some reason...I think they want me to be their, as Cherry put it, "AT Slave" XD (yes, Eleina, I'm looking at you! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)

I guess we could look at an Acrotecher being like a FOmarl, because she had boosts in all the support techs, and a Fortetecher being like a FOnewm, who was very attack oriented.

I think I'll have to say goodbye to my pedestal of awesomeness... ='[

But level 40 attack techs...>:D BOOM!!!

[Edit] Random thought: A Beast Acrotecher would be kinda hawt though...

[ This Message was edited by: Hikaru-san on 2007-04-06 08:01 ]

DavidNel

Apr 6, 2007, 10:04 AM

Two comments on the CAST debate:

1) I lol'ed at in-game racism
2) THEY'RE FREAKING ROBOTS! They're bound to be strong...

Akaimizu

Apr 6, 2007, 10:06 AM

Probably because characteristically, Casts have more strength than Humans. I think they were trying to keep that model. I had a thought that perhaps, the expansion could somehow add a little TP-dependant % bonus to Buffs and debuffs. Reverser is an on/off switch, so that's a toughy to change. Not that I count on that happening, but it was a thought.

Another thing I thought about, was whether they'll do adjustments to Casting time on a per-race basis. I can see how balancing casts can be tough. They are built with lots of enhancements, save Tech.

As a human, it seems safe to play anything, (As long as people are convinced what they're told about them). In some ways, maybe one shouldn't prove how Humans stack up (completely), less they also have to deal with people yelling at them for picking a certain class.

Akaimizu

Apr 6, 2007, 10:08 AM

On 2007-04-06 07:59, Hikaru-san wrote:

[Edit] Random thought: A Beast Acrotecher would be kinda hawt though...

Yeah. I was thinking of that for Mufonna's distant future. Kind of part of a planned story-line. (Though Acrofighter might be considered depending on the results of true playtesting)

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 10:18 AM

On 2007-04-06 08:06, Akaimizu wrote:
Probably because characteristically, Casts have more strength than Humans. I think they were trying to keep that model.
Then all hopes for balance are lost. Humans' point is to be better at the specialist races outside of the specialist races' fortes. With Casts as they are, Humans are worse than Casts for everything except Fortetecher. And then you add SUV weapons: gg Humans.

On 2007-04-06 08:06, Akaimizu wrote:
Another thing I thought about, was whether they'll do adjustments to Casting time on a per-race basis. I can see how balancing casts can be tough. They are built with lots of enhancements, save Tech.
To be more specific: Tech attacks. Support techs they have NO issue with. None. So they don't even have a downside to Acrotecher or Wartecher which have NOTHING to do with the supposed Cast "strong point" of Ranged.

On 2007-04-06 08:06, Akaimizu wrote:As a human, it seems safe to play anything
"Safe" yes. "Better than Cast" heck no. Only at Fortetecher and otherwise Casts are better.

ljkkjlcm9

Apr 6, 2007, 10:43 AM

my reaction?

A lot of melee fighters will now have grinded 50% weapons, which will just be the best of both worlds. And if they're like me, they don't care how much it would take to get it to +10, it'd be worth it on a 50% weapon.

Fighgunner is still my class choice. Of all the new weapons they were adding I wanted Slicers, and apparently, that's what we got and the mag type thing which I might as well try. And, the only other class that can use the slicer, is the brand new Acrofighter. Either way, I'm completely happy with this class now. Especially with higher level bullets. Crossbows will be even better for us!

THE JACKEL

[ This Message was edited by: ljkkjlcm9 on 2007-04-06 08:46 ]

Seira7

Apr 6, 2007, 10:45 AM

Like I previously mentioned, won't raising the class level make human hybrid classes all that much stronger? Especially wartecher, which is a class that needs balance. At 60/10, I compared a human WT male and my female cast and our atp/ata was near the same, but his tp was way higher. If they add class levels, humans could very well surpass casts at hybrid classes, right?

I really agree, though, aerotech is a huge disappointment as far as a new class for Newmans. I would love to play a Newman, but would like to excel at something other than FT. I was crossing my fingers for a new class for Newmans to rock at I think it is only fair.

Neggy

Apr 6, 2007, 10:57 AM

On 2007-04-05 18:32, DurakkenX wrote:
this sword is sweet >.> i'm now jealous of myself v.v

http://durakkenstudios.com/PSU/aoi/sword1.jpg

Do all MMOs do this? The first iteration of the game, has you're typical, boring looking weapons. Then as they add more and more stuffs, you get weaker weapons that look tons cooler than the old stuff that still has better stats?

'cause srsly, I don't want to downgrade just to look neat. Because I will do shit like that.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 11:01 AM

Like I previously mentioned, won't raising the class level make human hybrid classes all that much stronger?
No. Not at all. The deduction of "class level increase = better racial type bonuses" is flawed.

Suppose a Human gets a 3% ATP boost at Wartecher (not sure what it is, but let's call it that). Now, Casts have ~9% more ATP than Humans, so they'll still have more. How does raising the class level cap help that? Ultimately Humans will still get the same 3% from the bonus and Casts will still have 9% more for their race. Casts still win.

The trouble with Newmans is their single proficiency is Technic ATTACKS, yet there's only ONE type with Lv.40 technic attacks (30 now). Compare that with the massive spread of types that have maxed skills or bullets.

And now they're simply giving half the technics to the other three races too? Thanks Sega ¬_¬

KamiSori

Apr 6, 2007, 11:04 AM

well Sega needs to give Humans higher ATP. i just hope they balance this out because, as i said earlier, humans and newmans are currently getting shafted.

oh and uh one more thing....GIVE US SOME DECENT CREA WEAPONS!!!

[ This Message was edited by: KamiSori on 2007-04-06 09:07 ]

Sychosis

Apr 6, 2007, 11:07 AM

On 2007-04-06 09:01, Mikaga wrote:

Like I previously mentioned, won't raising the class level make human hybrid classes all that much stronger?
No. Not at all. The deduction of "class level increase = better racial type bonuses" is flawed.

Suppose a Human gets a 3% ATP boost at Wartecher (not sure what it is, but let's call it that). Now, Casts have ~9% more ATP than Humans, so they'll still have more. How does raising the class level cap help that? Ultimately Humans will still get the same 3% from the bonus and Casts will still have 9% more for their race. Casts still win.

The trouble with Newmans is their single proficiency is Technic ATTACKS, yet there's only ONE type with Lv.40 technic attacks (30 now). Compare that with the massive spread of types that have maxed skills or bullets.

And now they're simply giving half the technics to the other three races too? Thanks Sega ¬_¬

I feel exactly the same way. This was a golden opportunity to close the gap between Newmans/Humans, and CASTs/Beasts. Sega took this opportunity, and as of present time, made the gap wider.

It's probably the biggest reason for my not wanting the expansion anymore.

Krisan

Apr 6, 2007, 11:10 AM

On 2007-04-06 08:18, Mikaga wrote:

On 2007-04-06 08:06, Akaimizu wrote:
Probably because characteristically, Casts have more strength than Humans. I think they were trying to keep that model.
Then all hopes for balance are lost. Humans' point is to be better at the specialist races outside of the specialist races' fortes. With Casts as they are, Humans are worse than Casts for everything except Fortetecher. And then you add SUV weapons: gg Humans.

The point of the Human race is that they can do anything without sucking though.. Sure the other races can out do em in everything, but they're still the only race that can do it all without taking any flak for it, and not suck at it.. (Doesn't matter if Cast can do it all except techer.. that's the point, Humans can handle them ALL, just not as well as the others.)

Newman's are broken, in my opinion, though.. If you go by Casts being so nice due to their history, than Newman's REALLY should have some ATP in there somewhere or something.. There are quite a few Newman warriors historically, some great ones, they shouldn't be shoehorned as casters like they are..

But anyways.. Aren't you forgetting class growth varies depending on race too? Certain races gain bonuses with certain classes.. Human's might not stand up to a Cast on base stats, but on the right ones.. they could very well excel beyond the Cast. (Especially with the cap higher than 10 now..) Human's really aren't that bad off when you look at it like that, but Newman's definitely still are.. The new classes might work out in their favor a bit, but the stat growth would need to be damn nice in order to compensate for their base problems. >_>

On 2007-04-06 09:01, Mikaga wrote:

Like I previously mentioned, won't raising the class level make human hybrid classes all that much stronger?
Suppose a Human gets a 3% ATP boost at Wartecher (not sure what it is, but let's call it that).
I don't think the growth works exactly like that.. Besides, there is nothing to stop them from pushing the stats a bit higher for one race over another. Didn't someone already post with a comparison of a Human and Cast at 10 Wartecher that had similar stats except in TP?

[ This Message was edited by: Krisan on 2007-04-06 09:13 ]

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 11:12 AM

Newmen were meant to be hunters anyway. I say just strap them with a hunter boost, give the force boost to human, and modify their stats so that they actually make quite deadly hunters. As for beasts being the hunters, well, stick them in the corner.

You know what? Just get rid of the whole "This race is better at this job" stuff. I hated it when it first came out, and I'll hate it when PSU dies. Just balance the classes so they preform equally in each class, but give them all different stats to give them individuality.
I don't see why they see it logical to force you to either play a race you don't like because they play best as the job you like, or to suffer the stat penalties for playing a race/job combination you like. Especially when many of the worst job combinations were seen earlier in the series.

Krisan

Apr 6, 2007, 11:16 AM

On 2007-04-06 09:12, Zorafim wrote:
Newmen were meant to be hunters anyway. I say just strap them with a hunter boost, give the force boost to human, and modify their stats so that they actually make quite deadly hunters. As for beasts being the hunters, well, stick them in the corner.

You know what? Just get rid of the whole "This race is better at this job" stuff. I hated it when it first came out, and I'll hate it when PSU dies. Just balance the classes so they preform equally in each class, but give them all different stats to give them individuality.
I don't see why they see it logical to force you to either play a race you don't like because they play best as the job you like, or to suffer the stat penalties for playing a race/job combination you like. Especially when many of the worst job combinations were seen earlier in the series.

They do it so everyone won't be exactly the same.. The irony is, people like to be the "best" at everything, so it might actually cause more problems than it helps in many cases with people choosing the same exact options for certain fields. <_<

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 11:18 AM

So, they make beasts the best hunters so that everyone won't be a beast hunter...

Could you explain? I think you confused me.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 11:20 AM

Sure the other races can out do em in everything, but they're still the only race that can do it all without taking any flak for it, and not suck at it..
But that's not fair at all. Why can't you see this? Humans are better Rangers and Forces than Beast, better Hunters and Rangers than Newman, and better Hunters and Forces than Cast. They pay for this versatility by never being wtf pwn at anything.

...oh wait, did I say they were better Hunters than Cast? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no. And who cares about being a better (attack) Force? There's only ONE!

Newman's REALLY should have some ATP in there somewhere or something.
I kinda agree, but for slightly differing reasons. Numans were more about scrapping (specifically claws) than they were about throwing spell wrath about, though arguably Newmans are a different race altogether.

My reasoning is - Newman Hunter is WAY out of a Newman's element, but Cast Hunter is not. Why is that? Casts were built to be Rangers. Why do they outperform Newmans in EVERY SINGLE WAY at something neither are supposed to be "zomg awesoem" at?

Aren't you forgetting class growth varies depending on race too?
No it does not! It really does not. Class growth is a multiplier of your race/gender's base stats. A level 10 Fighgunnerr has 116% ATP, which is exactly the same for Casts and Humans. In addition, Humans always get a ~3% ATP boost for Fighgunner, and Casts always get a ~9% ATP boost over Humans. Who wins?

Increasing the 116% of Fighgunner to something else will, proportionally, change NOTHING.

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 11:22 AM

Don't newmen make slightly better rangers than humans, due to their higher accuracy? I thought that's what ranger was all about.

Raysa

Apr 6, 2007, 11:23 AM

It saddens me that the Guntecher population will reach a critical high in the expansion. ;( It was really cool being one. Like being a beastmaster on FFXI.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 11:26 AM

On 2007-04-06 09:22, Zorafim wrote:
Don't newmen make slightly better rangers than humans, due to their higher accuracy? I thought that's what ranger was all about.
They've got garbage HP/DFP/ATP, though.

Raysa

Apr 6, 2007, 11:31 AM

I can understand our HP and DFP loss, but some ATP would be nice. If your a ranger you normally don't get damaged as much as melee would.

Sychosis

Apr 6, 2007, 01:30 PM

On 2007-04-06 09:22, Zorafim wrote:
Don't newmen make slightly better rangers than humans, due to their higher accuracy? I thought that's what ranger was all about.

No, ranged heavy classes have enormous ATA modifers. fGs get a 200% ATA modifer, you have no trouble at all hitting things Human or Newman. So what becomes important for gunners is physical damage dealt to supplement SE damage over time to kill things as quickly as possible.

Raysa

Apr 6, 2007, 01:52 PM

Maybe they should've made ranged damage + accuracy = ATA. It would've seemed smarter and more fair.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 01:57 PM

Indeed! That'd be the sort of change that could work well. If ATA determined (some/all) gun damage then Casts could comfortably take an ATP hit and balance in the melee department would finally be recovered.

Still wouldn't really resolve the issues of Newmans having FAR too many disadvantages or Humans/Newmans lacking a special, but it'd be one of many possible steps in the right direction.

TorterraEndor

Apr 6, 2007, 01:59 PM

Races are balanced enough as they are, if you pick a female newman and hope to be good at melee, then you're just dumb. Humans don't suck at anything, but they don't excel at anything. I don't know why these basic facts are even being repeated.

Class balance is a little out of whack with whats in the beta right now, but it's a BETA, stuff will change.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 02:00 PM

Because looking at "zomg the basic facts" is a REALLY stupid way of doing things.

"Humans are good at everything but not the best" is a WONDERFUL feel-good assumption until you notice that Casts are better than them in all but one type.

[ This Message was edited by: Mikaga on 2007-04-06 12:01 ]

TorterraEndor

Apr 6, 2007, 02:02 PM

And if you pick a cast FT, you're only gimping yourself.

But if you're a human, you can pick up any class and you won't be the best, but you're far from gimped.

It doesn't matter what ST does, you'll still bitch til all the races are exactly the same minus looks.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 02:06 PM

Please don't expect me to take you seriously when you say things as stupid as that.

Nai_Calus

Apr 6, 2007, 02:09 PM

On 2007-04-06 07:33, Sychosis wrote:

With a 6 minute duration, the cost will be negligible for an AT.

Point. I do keep looking at things from a soloing perspective since that's what I usually do on PSU. XD "Fuck, I run out of PP now with Rods..." (Then again, I don't associate six-person parties with 'woohoo ownage!, I associate them with 'well fuck, this is where I lag out'. I play PSU on dialup. I'm fine up until around person five in games. Then it goes downhill. Person six pretty much kills it. We're moving soon though, and it *will* be to somewhere that gets friggin' broadband, so that will stop.)

Although. I never run out of PP on attack rods unless I'm spamming Gizonde to be lazy and not have to aim like whoa by myself and using Resta frequently(Hello solo GoF, I'm looking at you), but even in parties, assuming I manage to J/Z/Z everything before it dies, even if it goes quickly I still use as much PP to that as I would if I were by myself and J/Z/Zing everything. Whereas if I say 'screw support' and just tag with Gizonde or something I'm barely using PP at all. Then again, the other PP bleeder is trying to get people to not run away from your damned S/D/Z/R. Maybe by the time you get to higher levels people have figured out that, oh yeah, that stuff the pointy-eared chick with the Rod is doing won't kill me. DX

...AHAHAHAHAHAHA. People didn't ever figure that out on PSO either and you only had two buffs to get on them. XD

Still, Acrotecher doesn't entirely remove the point of Fortetechers, even Fortetechers as support. Hell, if you have nothing else, a Wartecher would be good support. (WTF is up with ST fapping on GTs, anyway? WTs go from 20 everything to 20 support and 30 attack and GTs go from 10 everything to 20 attack and 30 support? I'd almost consider going GT on something if I didn't despise guns in this game. If I wanted to play a first-person shooter, I'd play a goddamned first-person shooter.)

Then again, ST being unable to balance anything in a game worth shit shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. I mean, we just spent six years complaining about the lack of balance in PSO. >_> Is anyone REALLY surprised by *anything* ST does that's stupid anymore?

Raysa

Apr 6, 2007, 02:12 PM

On 2007-04-06 11:57, Mikaga wrote:
Indeed! That'd be the sort of change that could work well. If ATA determined (some/all) gun damage then Casts could comfortably take an ATP hit and balance in the melee department would finally be recovered.

Still wouldn't really resolve the issues of Newmans having FAR too many disadvantages or Humans/Newmans lacking a special, but it'd be one of many possible steps in the right direction.

Well, if you look at it this way. Newmans would be the second most popular ranger class. That's saying ATA determined all of the ranged damage.

Also, if we had some kind of special. I can't believe they just give them to Beasts and CASTs. It really saddens me.

Newmans should be easy to give something to. Since they are usually Tech(magic) users, maybe somekind of SuperTech.

Something like
(Choose one like the nanoblast and SUV)

Meteor Foie = Immense damage and and causes SE3 Burn on all enemies?

Super Resta = Revives/Heals all members of a party and deals some Light Elemental damage to all enemies?
or even better Casts Autolife on everyone while healing/reviving?

Some kind of Super Support Buffs = Casts all Super Buffs (depending on level of user) on everyone in the party regardless of where they are with the addition of Rentis and Dizas.

I mean they should be able to do something for us Newmans :/. I'm sure this idea is flawed and I have no intent in submitting it. I just through my 2 cents on something that they could have probably done. Humans erm don't know what special you could give them >.<!

TorterraEndor

Apr 6, 2007, 02:13 PM

This obviously isn't worth my time, because you're just going to find some obscure fact to bitch about, even when the fact makes sense.

Instead of bitching about some not real race inbalance, I'm gonna go play PSU.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 02:22 PM

See, that's your problem. You're looking at the face value of "lolol humans jack of all trades" and conveniently glazing over that Casts are the master of all trades (except one they can easily ignore).

So "the fact makes sense"? No. No it does not. Casts make Humans pretty much obsoloete and despite your estranged beliefs based on flawed stereotypes, it should NOT be that way.

---

(Responding to late Pg.10 posts)

Among the ideas I've dreamed up for Humans, perhaps among the most interesting would revolve around PP - restoring x PP or x% PP for all weapons in an AoE effect, infinite PP for ~20 seconds, et. cetera.

Contrary to popular belief, I'd like to see Newmans get special they could use as all types, the way Casts and Beast can SUV/Nano even as Fortetecher. Perhaps the most fitting of ideas would be some kind of "Numan Mode" involving new (and actually useful) twin claw animations.

Golto

Apr 6, 2007, 02:29 PM

People just need to stfu about Newmans and Humans not having a special attack.

Raysa

Apr 6, 2007, 02:32 PM

No.

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 6, 2007, 02:40 PM

Its like society in real life somewhat, the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. Beasts and CASTs get special abilities in this game because they have better stats, and if you're better, you just need help to blow away the other races and make them suck. Thats how the world works.

But yeah, I hope they at least make it so that Female Newman Fighgunners can be stronger than Male Beast Fortegunners and that Female Newman Fortefighters can be stronger tahn Male Beast Fighgunners in ATP. And I agree w/ Sychosis that Newman Fortefighters are probably the least bad of the "wrong" combinations because CASTs have lower TP than Newman WTs while they will still have low HP and DFP, even if they ARE CASTs.

ShadowDragon28

Apr 6, 2007, 02:46 PM

My Female Newman is a Hunter ( ala Nei ), and going to be a ForteFighter (for the S-Rank Claws), with my skills I can kick ass with her just fine...

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 6, 2007, 02:53 PM

Yeah, hearing arguments like this is making me lose sight of whats important. I mean, in the end, while a female newman won't be doing as much damage as a male beast(maybe 60 more points of damage at level 100 if I got it calculated right), the newman will still have more defense and HP than a beast and cast fighgunner and fortegunner. And I think Newmans can also kick ass with Wartechers as well, since they have the option of going melee, but at the same time, they can also attack with magic as well, yeah, not fT magic, but Fighgunners can't shoot like Fortegunners either.

Mewn

Apr 6, 2007, 03:01 PM

CASTs either need nerfing or Newmans need buffing. As a CAST player, I find it pretty laughable that the race is either best or second-best at every class except fT.

Humans might be jacks of all trades, CASTs are masters of all bar one. The SUV is icing on the cake really, even before that CASTs are blatantly superior.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 03:12 PM

I hope they at least make it so that [...] Female Newman Fortefighters can be stronger tahn Male Beast Fighgunners in ATP.
That's asking for WAY too much. It's important that I don't want Newmans to be zomg overpowered. Just... not zomg underpowered. There's an in-between that COULD be reached, after all.

I mean, in the end, while a female newman won't be doing as much damage as a male beast(maybe 60 more points of damage at level 100 if I got it calculated right)
Hahaha no, it's way more than that. Tests with high-level FNe and MBe with high-elemental RBZ put the damages at ~750 per hit for the Beast and ~545 per hit for the Newman. That's about 2.5k damage output lost per combo, and that's just for a weak weapon!

the newman will still have more defense and HP than a beast and cast fighgunner and fortegunner.
Um... what? Newmans have the lowest HP and DFP in the game. And "lol mages" is not really an excuse in this particular game.

Newman Fortefighters are probably the least bad of the "wrong" combinations because CASTs have lower TP than Newman WTs while they will still have low HP and DFP, even if they ARE CASTs.
tbh Newman Fortefighter is probably the MOST bad of the "wrong" combinations. Cast Fortetecher gets a surprising amount of survivability (certainly the most for a Fortetecher), good stats to back up going full-time with cards and bows, the ability to buff/debuff/status heal perfectly, a Resta that still DOES work capably enough, and can pop off a shot of Sturm Buster to burn everything.

Sure, they have the notable downside of awful technic attacks, but there are a lot of compensations to make up for that.

Back to Newman fighter: They get awful HP, DFP, ATP and EVP (high enough to cause a lot of trouble, while remaining unreliable enough to not really save you ever). Their "zomg MST" prevents roughly 14 damage more than a Cast (which has ~550 more HP so who cares?) and their TP is worthless. They also get no special ability compensation. So... they only really have one "pro" and that's ATA.

[ This Message was edited by: Mikaga on 2007-04-06 13:14 ]

Sychosis

Apr 6, 2007, 03:18 PM

On 2007-04-06 12:40, Shiroryuu wrote:
And I agree w/ Sychosis that Newman Fortefighters are probably the least bad of the "wrong" combinations

Hmm? Maybe I made a typo somewhere, but IMO Newman fFs are indeed the WORST of the bad combinations. They fail in all but one needed category, ATA.

[ This Message was edited by: Sychosis on 2007-04-06 13:18 ]

DraginHikari

Apr 6, 2007, 03:29 PM

Meh... you people do way too much number crunching...

-Rune-

Apr 6, 2007, 03:29 PM

Why doesn't everyone just shut up, stop arguing about sprites on the screen and enjoy the spring weather that's coming. This game isn't worth arguing about let alone playing right now. I'm done spending money on this game when there's nothing worth finding at the moment

Raysa

Apr 6, 2007, 03:30 PM

This summer is gonna be awesome. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

-Rune-

Apr 6, 2007, 03:39 PM

Yea I can't stand cold weather, I hate being cooped up indoors -_-

Maybe when this expansion comes out I'll return doubt it though, especially since I won't have any items to my name since I'm giving them away xD

Raysa

Apr 6, 2007, 03:45 PM

On 2007-04-06 13:39, -Rune- wrote:
Yea I can't stand cold weather, I hate being cooped up indoors -_-

Maybe when this expansion comes out I'll return doubt it though, especially since I won't have any items to my name since I'm giving them away xD

lol Cold weather is fail.

I just play in times of stress in cold weather while in school. Though on spring break now. So I'll come back when my break is done http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Sneakysanta

Apr 6, 2007, 03:47 PM

This is exactly what ive been waiting for, re installing psu right now http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 6, 2007, 04:18 PM

Man, down here in Miaim, its always hot. I kind of appreciate some cool weather, although I probably wouldn't survive a cold winter in another city thats colder or something.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 04:22 PM

[Rune's entire post]
I'd comment about how people have every right to complain if they have justifiable complaints, but if you're not even playing PSU I guess your comments are simple trolling anyway.

Dj_SkyEpic

Apr 6, 2007, 04:41 PM

Now that I think about it... Even though I am staying Fortetecher just for the lvl 40 Attack techs, I want an Acrotecher slave >;D... mmhmm~

-Rune-

Apr 6, 2007, 04:41 PM

Meh, yer not even worth speaking to... -_-

Xaeris

Apr 6, 2007, 04:46 PM

Sonic Team hasn't given me this much faith in them since they made Sonic & Knuckles. I'm very excited, especially for the changes to my two main characters' classes. Protransers get all S in their usuable weapons? That's just gorgeous. Oh, and the wartecher changes...glorious. Simply glorious.

Oh, and casts make better wartechers than humans? Ah ha ha...thanks, I needed that.

Scion

Apr 6, 2007, 04:48 PM

On 2007-04-06 14:41, Dj_SkyEpic wrote:
Now that I think about it... Even though I am staying Fortetecher just for the lvl 40 Attack techs, I want an Acrotecher slave >;D... mmhmm~

No you don't...
>.>
<.<
>.<

AweOfShe

Apr 6, 2007, 05:07 PM

On 2007-04-06 13:29, DraginHikari wrote:
Meh... you people do way too much number crunching...

SPREADSHEETS UNIVERSE OLO

-----
Seriously though. I'm a Newman Protranser, who put the number crunching aside, and contributed about as much (or even more than, in some cases) to the team as an 80/10 'perfect combination'. As long as you figure out that there's more than one way to play a god-damned class, then there isn't any problems at all. If you got time to complain, then you got time to figure it out. :P

[ This Message was edited by: AweOfShe on 2007-04-06 15:17 ]

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 6, 2007, 05:14 PM

Welll, we have the voice of experience right here, Female Newman PT, FG, WT, adn GT. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Scion

Apr 6, 2007, 05:18 PM

Yeah, go Rain!

Seriously, numbers don't mean shit. Skill>Stats.

"3% this, 9% that...CAST this, Newman that"

Who fucking cares!?

Shit, just play the game...It's not even that hard. =P

AweOfShe

Apr 6, 2007, 05:19 PM

I didn't actually play guntecher yet though. I will once that new 'cowgirl' looking outfit comes out. XD

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 6, 2007, 05:25 PM

Yeah. Hopefully we can get that beast cowgirl casino outfit.

Flwl3ssCowboy

Apr 6, 2007, 05:26 PM

On 2007-04-06 14:46, Steve Irwin wrote:
Sonic Team is doing something awesome?

Gaw-geous!

fix'd

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 05:59 PM

On 2007-04-06 11:59, TorterraEndor wrote:
Races are balanced enough as they are, if you pick a female newman and hope to be good at melee, then you're just dumb. Humans don't suck at anything, but they don't excel at anything. I don't know why these basic facts are even being repeated.

Class balance is a little out of whack with whats in the beta right now, but it's a BETA, stuff will change.

Warning: Skip to the end if you value your braincells. This is confirmed by an outside source (read; the next poster) to be an incredibly dumb post. You have been warned!

Let's meet Mr. PSfanboy. At a tender age, he picked up Phantasy Star for the genesis. He loved the colorful world and the scary monsters that really looked like they were attacking him. He also got pissed off at the hard difficulty and impossible level designs.
One of his favorite characters was the cat, who did similar damage to the human and was able to keep the team alive when he had to. He also liked the cool slashing animations the cat did. They were cool.

A few years later, he found Phantasy Star II. Although he didn't find his beloved cat thing, he liked the catgirl with the skimpy cloths. She also had a cool slashing animation, but this time he could see her attack. She was also the only thing keeping the party alive until Rolf learned resta, and even then she was still better at it. Dispite this, he loved how her attacks were still on par with everyone but the big dude with the guns. He was sad when she died in the middle. She couldn't heal the party and kill things when she was dead.

Later, he saw Phantasy Star III. It was weird, he didn't play it.

Later on, he found Phantasy Star IV. He liked the comic book style. Though it had none of the characters from Phantasy Star I or Phantasy Star II, there were characters that were kind of close to them. He thought the main character was a dork, but was useful when fighting. He laughed at the scientist guy, because he was a wimp. After a while, he saw the cutsceen with the girl with pointy ears. He was happy, because he thought it was Nei. It wasn't. But she was still cool, because her attack animation was better and she had a cape. Also, Disrupt. Her damage was a bit lower, but she hardly ever missed, making her one of his favorite characters for pure damage outside of bosses. She also kept the party alive. Also: Genocyclaws.

Mr. PSfanboy liked these cat characters, because they were familiar to him. They were all the same character, though they were different. Kind of like what his religion teachers said that God was like. He didn't understand that.

Then came Phantasy Star Online. Now, he could play as his favorite character with other people. People called him a nerd because he was playing a female character, but he didn't care. He kept the party alive, and delt decent damage. He was sad that his damage was so low, but he didn't mind much.

After long years of playing PSO and going back to his old PS games, PSfanboy became a man. He got a low paying job and a girlfriend that wasn't very pretty, but was faithful. He also learned of a new Phantasy Star game. This made him happy. He couldn't wait to play his cat girl, and keep the party alive while looking cool with claws. Eventually he bought the game. This also made him happy. He played the offline story mode, because he's always wanted a new phantasy star story. It sucked. This made him sad. But he figured it was an online game, so of course the offline part was going to suck. He made his newman, and was confused as to why his damage was so low. He was impressed that the difficulty was so high, and continued meleeing. Then he noticed he was a force. He didn't know why he was a force, because he chose newman, which was a meleeing race. So, he went to change his job to hunter. He didn't have enough money, so he killed things with fire until he did. Now he could keep the party alive and kill things.

But we all know that PSfanboy cannot keep the party alive and do damage like the humans, because newman atp sucks. Also, you need wands to heal, which hunters do not have. He couldn't make his favorite character, which he grew up with, in the same series that created it.
PSfanboy made a big beast and killed things with axes. This made him sad.

Read here if you're skipping to the end, because this is where the point of the post is.
Newmen hunters are staple Phantasy Star characters. They've been in the series since the first game, in at least one incarnation. Now, all the sudden, newmen are space elves that have no strength, and no way of keeping up with other classes as a hunter. Fans of the series have to make compremises. That's just dumb.

[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-04-06 16:16 ]

Apr 6, 2007, 06:04 PM

Just as dumb as reading that?

Ugh, to be fair, you DID warn me, but fuck, I wasn't expecting it to be that dumb...

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 06:06 PM

Should I make the warning more obvious?

Sychosis

Apr 6, 2007, 06:06 PM

That's a sad story Zorafim. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Apr 6, 2007, 06:08 PM

Yes, like, bold, SUPER bold.

Para

Apr 6, 2007, 06:11 PM

lol I gotta agree... I made my Newman melee to start off of.. sorta disappointed how it turned out o_o SEGA needs to fix this for race specific class specific stat bonuses D:

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 06:18 PM

Excuse me for a while. That post effected even my brain count. I'm gunna' do calculus homework or, like, something.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 06:19 PM

Zorafim, that post was made of awesome and success. For a while I even thought you were talking about me and half-expected a moron-moral such as "PSFanboy needs to use the race that's best at the class he wants to be and STFU with the whining."

TorterraEndor

Apr 6, 2007, 06:35 PM

Newman hunters have been a Phantasy Star staple

Newman hunters are not a Phantasy Star Universe staple

C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER.

Edit: And someone is going to come in and try to own me, saying how the PS games were so amazing and I am a noob or something, and completely ignoring the entire point of this post.

And Jesus Christ, everyone assuming I pick the best race/gender/class combos, I have a female newman WT. Christ.

[ This Message was edited by: TorterraEndor on 2007-04-06 16:39 ]

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 06:46 PM

Imagine a Disney movie with blackjack and hookers. Does something seem odd?
You could argue that Disney is trying something new, and not conforming to the stereotypes that were set on it. That still wouldn't take away from the fact that you just saw Snow White in a thong.

TorterraEndor

Apr 6, 2007, 06:51 PM

Actually, I'm curious where this shit about newmans always being HUs came from. It hasn't been that way since PSIV. PSO HUnewearls had the worst ATP and ATA of the HUs, and FOnewearls had the worst ATP in the game, why is this such a troubling and new thing? Newmans could be HUs in PSO, can be in PSU, doesn't make them good, though.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 06:52 PM

The integrity and tradition of Phantasy Star isn't entirely relevant to the point, of course. But this is both not related to the basic problem (Newman - and Human to a degree - are lacking in far too many ways) and related to the basic problem (because Casts keep with all their traditions and are thus OVERpowered).

TorterraEndor

Apr 6, 2007, 06:53 PM

Casts had the WORST ATA(Usually) in PSO(Bar HUcl)

WHAT TRADITIONS.

Edit: and again, to elaborate my point, I NEVER saw this kind of bitching in the PSO days, when these "traditions" were originally broken. Whats so new now?

[ This Message was edited by: TorterraEndor on 2007-04-06 16:54 ]

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 6, 2007, 06:54 PM

Its all Sonic Team's conspiracy to massacre the Newman race, havne't you realized this already? IMO however, the only ones that deserve to die are Dohgi Mikuna and Hiru Vol.

DonRoyale

Apr 6, 2007, 07:01 PM

On 2007-04-06 16:53, TorterraEndor wrote:
Casts had the WORST ATA(Usually) in PSO(Bar HUcl)

WHAT TRADITIONS.

Edit: and again, to elaborate my point, I NEVER saw this kind of bitching in the PSO days, when these "traditions" were originally broken. Whats so new now?

[ This Message was edited by: TorterraEndor on 2007-04-06 16:54 ]

Seriously, gimp their ATA, CASTs are way too overpowered.

And give SOMETHING to make us Newmans happier. We suck, seriously.

Stupid ST and its blatant racism.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 07:07 PM

On 2007-04-06 16:53, TorterraEndor wrote:
Casts had the WORST ATA(Usually) in PSO(Bar HUcl)

WHAT TRADITIONS.
The only direct comparison (same type and gender) between Androids and Newmans in PSO was HUcaseal and HUnewearl. And the Caseal had more ATA.

That said, yeah, Humans universally beat (Edit: Haha, "beast"? Whoops) Androids for ATA as the Rangers. So I guess that "tradition" at it's core was broken. But then it'd be silly to have made Casts "the rangers" and then not given them the best ATA!

So... we've established that Casts got a nice ATA buff (and of course the base ability to use technics) from Androids, but never lost anything to compensate.

[ This Message was edited by: Mikaga on 2007-04-06 17:08 ]

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 07:07 PM

From PSI-PSIV, newmen (or any characters that had a similar build) were on par with the main character in terms of melee damage. In PSO, they took a large hit in physical stats for added mental capabilities (I think that's where the problem started). They completely mixed up the human's and newmen's specialties with the forces, too (FOnewearl getting a boost in megid when Megid was only learned by human characters beforehand? Humans getting support tech bonuses when newmen were the ones who learned support techs beforehand?). Still, being a tech oriented hunter is better than being a completely gimped hunter, which is what we have in PSU.

As for casts, they're kind of fuzzy. I can't really say what their stereotype is in the previous games due to the fact that there were only two games that they were in. For PSIV, one was a tank type character, similar to fortefighter except with huge guns, and the other was a sort of spellcaster that could melee for okayish damage (see what I mean by fuzzy?).
As for PSIII, I didn't play it, but they seem to be Odin and Myao type characters. I would guess that the male was the tank, while the female was the agile character. The female could use techs, and I would assume could act like a healer and supporter until someone better came along.

Two of the cast characters were similar, and one was a copy of the newman build. I think the only reason casts got the ata boost was so they could be the best rangers, due to them all using guns save for the female in PSIII. I wouldn't at all mind a hit in accuracy if beasts weren't in the picture (since then we'd have the same stats) and if the racism was completely gotten rid of in PSU.

SolomonGrundy

Apr 6, 2007, 07:07 PM

On 2007-04-06 16:51, TorterraEndor wrote:
Actually, I'm curious where this shit about newmans always being HUs came from. It hasn't been that way since PSIV. PSO HUnewearls had the worst ATP and ATA of the HUs, and FOnewearls had the worst ATP in the game, why is this such a troubling and new thing? Newmans could be HUs in PSO, can be in PSU, doesn't make them good, though.

PSO was/is a different beast. Offline mode was more robust, so soloing was more prevalent. HUnewearl, had amazing stat potential, and with shifta/deband was quite an able fighter.

PSU is a little different. HUnewearl is now Female Wartecher, and her stats are not so superior anymore. I was going to take a stab being HUnewm, but the HP, ATP, and ATA did not seem to merit the loss of stamina, TP, DFP, and MST.

Also, with the wand/tech system, it's a wee bit more difficult to get the right set up.

Mikaga

Apr 6, 2007, 07:15 PM

On 2007-04-06 17:07, SolomonGrundy wrote:
I was going to take a stab being HUnewm, but the HP, ATP, and ATA did not seem to merit the loss of stamina, TP, DFP, and MST.
Haha, that's not a problem limied to race or type! All males suffer that, which is an entirely separate beast that Sega have appeared to conveniently ignored for AoI.

Which is actually quite interesting. Anyone who glances at the JP demographics (~3% Newman Males, ~24% Newman Females) can see that there's an incredible problem for certain race/gender combinations in this game. So in the same way they rebalanced skills and bullets due to their overall use, and the same way they're making balance changes to types apparently depending on use (massive boosts for WT and GT in particular), why are they doing so little about males?

Neith

Apr 6, 2007, 08:38 PM

Just seen the video of a Slicer in action. Am I the only one who found it incredibly underwhelming?

TorterraEndor

Apr 6, 2007, 08:40 PM

I dunno, I saw it to be pretty good, heh.

I couldn't tell from the resolution+youtube what level the enemies were and the characters, but it seemed to be doing pretty good damage, for a melee weapon that has range. Plus it seems to hit 4 or 5 targets, I couldn't tell too well.

Tystys

Apr 6, 2007, 08:46 PM

On 2007-04-06 18:38, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Just seen the video of a Slicer in action. Am I the only one who found it incredibly underwhelming?

Yeah, so was the whip, -_-

SolomonGrundy

Apr 6, 2007, 08:54 PM

On 2007-04-06 18:38, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Just seen the video of a Slicer in action. Am I the only one who found it incredibly underwhelming?

I'm dissapointed it did not hit the sorcerers as a ranged weapon (bummer), but the seeking action makes it a great weapon vs dodgy enemies (golormos in video, by way of example)

Rashiid

Apr 6, 2007, 08:56 PM

i saw teh slicer vid too....

ummm.....it tech suxorz in my opinion, is this really what you guys wanted back from PSO?

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 09:04 PM

Well, it satisfied me. Not something that I'd use, but it seems viable. Given the desire for leveling the job, though, I'd probably use it if it didn't suck.

Apr 6, 2007, 09:05 PM

Uh

Ranged melee weapon sucks now? lol

Allison_W

Apr 6, 2007, 09:30 PM

Simple fix for the sex disparities: give both sexes identical stats (including equally fast attack anims, as well as equal strikes per combo for twin claws). Seriously. This one's a no-brainer.

As for newman Hunters, the best thing I can come up with would be:
A) Make a new advanced class based on the archetype filled by the newman characters of the past that excels in melee and support techs, but sucks with bullets and can't use attack techs at all; either:
2) it's newman-only and has good enough ATP/DFP/etc. mods to make it worthwhile next to other melee-oriented classes or
3) make it accessible to all races, give it good enough stats that it can compete with other melee-oriented classes in general, and then give newmans sufficiently large race/class combo stat bonuses to make them excel at it in the way they excel at Fortetecher.

B) Lots of sweet newman-only weapons and armour that are good enough compared to equipment usable by other races that they make newman melee fighters worthwhile. In keeping with the numans of old, these should include plenty of claws.

Not sure what to do about CASTs, though. You folks are right--they're just awesome, and I'm not sure how to fix that little red wagon while remaining true to their portrayal in older games. Mieu (sp?) of PSIII is, as far as I recall, very "newman" in how she worked (twin claws; access to healing techniques and one category of support techniques, which included the game's attack booster and defense booster techniques), despite being a cyborg. Wren of PSIII is more like the modern cyborgs in that he's very tank-ish, except he also has attack techniques and the other category of support techniques (blocking enemy physical attacks and techniques, for instance).

Numans seem to be pretty clearly established in the old Phantasy Star series as fighter/support. CASTs go all over the place, so their versatility should probably be somewhere near that of humans--they just shouldn't pwn them in most things like they do now. PSIII makes an even bigger mess and I don't really see how it fits into the series as a whole, so it should probably be given less weight.

While I only really got into the PS series with PSO, I will say one thing: sword and sorcery games are a dime a dozen. Phantasy Star actually has roots that differentiate it from your standard fantasy beyond just reskinning it to look futuristic, and that's something damn well worth defending. Newmans are not space elves and as such should be treated like numans and not every other pointy-eared humanoid out there, and CASTs deserve to be more than your stereotypical "strong, logical, spiritually unaware" robot (though PSU adding the ability for CASTs to use techniques at all was at least a step in the right direction here).

ShadowDragon28

Apr 6, 2007, 09:35 PM

Any Farscape fans at alll here? Well check this out

The Par Sorza
http://mewn.psupedia.info/Illuminus/Monsters/parsorza1.jpg

They kind of resemble the character "Pilot" from the Cult-hit Sci-Fi series "Farscape"....

"Pilot"
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/ShadowDragon28/Pilot_Farscape.jpg

" If The Peacekeepers don't leave us alone, me and Moya will cast Level 50 RaZonde on their battlecruiser! " http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif lol...

They look pretty darn similar to me. It seems that ST *might* be "Farscape" fans? *shrugs*

Apr 6, 2007, 09:38 PM

Newmans just fit the magic role SO well. Cause they're like elves.

What everyone wants from Newmans is for them to be the fucknig best class, and well, sorry, too bad, that's not happening.

The balance comes from the fact that, unlike Beasts, Casts and Humans not outdoing eachother by such a great gap in ability at whatever they do, Newmans RAMPAGE them all in Forcing (Well, not so much humans, but the gap betweens Newmans and humans is decent, then the HUGE gap between humans and Beasts/Casts for teching is HUGE)

EDIT: Let's try it like this.

Fortefighter: Beast > Cast > Human > Newman
Fortegunner: Actually, it's debateable between Cast/Beast, Beast simply for the fact that, as a fG, they'll have a lot of ATA, plus damage > Human > Newman
Fortetecher: Newman >> Human >>>>>>> Beast > Cast

That's why it's balanced. The huge ass gap.

[ This Message was edited by: PJ on 2007-04-06 19:41 ]

DonRoyale

Apr 6, 2007, 09:38 PM

I'm digging Acrotechers.

With the new expansion, my character lineup will look somewhat like this:

Shadow-Male Newman Acrotecher
Clothes: Flaxo shirt (the one he's been using for a while now)/those new pants (the ones that go with that shirt with the bowtie on the back)
Pallette:
Halp Serafi/Madoog-Regrants/Resta
Wand-Barta/Dambarta/Madoog-Resta/Giresta
Whip/Card
Whip/Madoog-Resta/Reverser
Twin Handguns
Daggers Of Serafi

Hagane-Male Cast Protranser
Clothes: Still the awesome wings, the new legs, debating on the new arms.
Pallette:
Shotgun
Axe
Sword
Spear
(undecided)
(undecided)

Drake/New Character-Male Beast, deciding on job still
Clothes: Deciding still
Pallette:
-under construction

Basilisk-Male Human Guntecher (Yeah, Basilisk as a Guntecher. Strange thing to fathom, but yeah...)
Clothes: Undecided
Pallette:
Wand-Megiverse/Dammegid/Madoog-Resta/Giresta
Whip/Card
Shotgun
Longbow
Slicer/Madoog-Megid/Ramegid (or Nosmegid, it depends)
Laser Cannon

I'm digging a lot of this new stuff, though. And this is just the beta @_@

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 10:00 PM

On 2007-04-06 19:38, PJ wrote:
Newmans just fit the magic role SO well. Cause they're like elves.

See, that's the problem. They aren't elves. They aren't spell casters. Everything about them screams "meleer", at least until PSO.
I would have quickly became a newman if they were the best meleers and sucked hard at both casting and gunning. Even if they were only on par with other races in meleeing, I would have made one.

They've just become so horridly stereotyped as something that's been done so many times before, even though they had a successful line of characters that were loved in each game, that I couldn't bare to make one. A failed genetic experiment is now all the sudden the leading spiritual leader of the solar system. The badass cloud of claws is now a sissy girly-man in a frock twirling around a magic stick.

I know I had a point somewhere, but my blind fanboyism got the better of me part way through. What was I talking about?

Shiro_Ryuu

Apr 6, 2007, 10:08 PM

Well, I guess I'll just say this, for those of use who want Newman Hunters, let us be Newman Hunters, but just don't criticize us for being that class.

Parn

Apr 6, 2007, 10:13 PM

From my understanding, expansion players and regular PSU players will be on the same servers, like PSOV2 with PSOV1 back on the Dreamcast days. Cool. And only expansion players can go to expansion areas. Cool. So what happens if you have one of the expansion styled rooms for your "My Room"? Will original PSU players be able to enter your room at all, will they see something totally different, or is the data already on the original client?

Not expecting anyone to answer this, but the thought just came up, heh...

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 10:31 PM

That's a really good question, and I doubt anyone has any information on that. The same could be asked about weapons. I think the two would be treated the same.

If I'm not mistaken, new weapons in PSO v.2 weren't viewable by people who still had PSO v.1. I think the weapon itself was invisible, so it looked like you were swinging air. I could be wrong, I wasn't there.
That being said, expansion rooms would probably be viewed as a dummy room. Maybe the basic room with a black wall, or just the basic room design. Something that doesn't take much effort to make on ST's end, but doesn't destroy the fell on the reciever's end.

It's all speculation, of course, but it at least makes sense to me. Then again, my mind is still shot from making that post on page 12 and from all this fanboying.

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 10:43 PM

Edit:I didn't post anything here. This isn't a mispost either. You're just imagining things. Look at the next post.

Stop looking at me!!!

[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-04-06 20:45 ]

Allison_W

Apr 6, 2007, 10:46 PM

On 2007-04-06 20:00, Zorafim wrote:

On 2007-04-06 19:38, PJ wrote:
Newmans just fit the magic role SO well. Cause they're like elves.

See, that's the problem. They aren't elves. They aren't spell casters. Everything about them screams "meleer", at least until PSO.
I would have quickly became a newman if they were the best meleers and sucked hard at both casting and gunning. Even if they were only on par with other races in meleeing, I would have made one.

They've just become so horridly stereotyped as something that's been done so many times before, even though they had a successful line of characters that were loved in each game, that I couldn't bare to make one. A failed genetic experiment is now all the sudden the leading spiritual leader of the solar system. The badass cloud of claws is now a sissy girly-man in a frock twirling around a magic stick.

I know I had a point somewhere, but my blind fanboyism got the better of me part way through. What was I talking about?

One: I feel your pain. They had something good, and they ditched it for lol SPACE ELVES.

Two: Nothing wrong with girly men. The problem isn't the frock; it's the fact that ST, for whatever cracksmoking reason, decided to replace numans with space elves. Don't take out your anger on the poor sissy.

ShadowDragon28

Apr 6, 2007, 10:50 PM

I think ST is using "Acro" as an abbreviation for "Acrobatic" maybe? "Acrobatic Fighter" ? due to the flashy acrobatic-like PA's they can have on their weapons?

Or maybe it's Engrish for "Accuracy" being engrish-abbreviated as "Accuro";
so they could mean "Accuracy Fighter" and "Accuracy Techer" perhaps?

What is the ATA and ATA gain with level ups like on them?

Zorafim

Apr 6, 2007, 10:52 PM

I've got nothing against spell casters, myself. I just wanted to make a point that I'm disappointed.

Besides;
http://gfxevolution.com/uploads/psu/casting/okarod.jpg
http://gfxevolution.com/uploads/psu/casting/magical_wand.jpg

Bare handed was cooler anyway.

As for the acro, I think it does indeed have to do with agility. They get alot of quick melee weapons, and can't equip anything big. If not for the low melee cap, acrotecher would make a great Myao character build.

[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-04-06 20:54 ]

PrinceBrightstar

Apr 7, 2007, 02:58 AM

Ok as an Algol series player, I've got a big stink to make about the expansion. The lack of dual slicers. I want the days of Alys back.

DurakkenX

Apr 7, 2007, 03:04 AM

Newmans of Algol are more akin to beasts of gurhal...
Espers of Algol are more akin to Newmans of Gurhal

think of it like that...it's a lot better.

Mikaga

Apr 7, 2007, 06:56 AM

I wrote:
It's important that I don't want Newmans to be zomg overpowered. Just... not zomg underpowered. There's an in-between

PJ wrote:
What everyone wants from Newmans is for them to be the fucknig best class, and well, sorry, too bad, that's not happening.
Ohes look at this! You make an outrageous claim that we'd already disclaimed against! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

PJ wrote:
Let's try it like this.

Fortefighter: Beast > Cast > Human > Newman
Fortegunner: Actually, it's debateable between Cast/Beast, Beast simply for the fact that, as a fG, they'll have a lot of ATA, plus damage > Human > Newman
Fortetecher: Newman >> Human >>>>>>> Beast > Cast

That's why it's balanced. The huge ass gap.
Yes, because Cast > Human or Cast >> Human universally on stats alone in 85% of the types is so fair. And then the SUV the Casts get on top of that. That's just "more fairness", right?

(Also, Beast > Cast at Fortetecher? For a small TP loss the Cast could comfortably use their ATA to support the FT's bows and cards for status and damage, Casts can use the support technics just perfectly, and needing 2 Restas to heal from 1 HP to full isn't going to be much of a problem ever. Hence you've also hilariously exaggerated the number of >s there are.)

A2K

Apr 7, 2007, 07:35 AM

On 2007-04-06 20:31, Zorafim wrote:
That's a really good question, and I doubt anyone has any information on that. The same could be asked about weapons. I think the two would be treated the same.

If I'm not mistaken, new weapons in PSO v.2 weren't viewable by people who still had PSO v.1. I think the weapon itself was invisible, so it looked like you were swinging air. I could be wrong, I wasn't there.

New weapons in Ver. 2 appeared as basic, 1 star weapons to Ver. 1 players--in their hands and even dropped on the ground. I believe if a Ver. 1 player picked up the item and left the party with it and returned, it would permanently revert to being that 1 star item.

Tystys

Apr 7, 2007, 08:57 AM

@A2K
That's actually a pretty ingenious way of dealing with it, lmao.

Nai_Calus

Apr 7, 2007, 09:11 AM

As far as the race/class/gender bitching goes... Uh, welcome to 2002. Actually, 2001, but I missed the DC version so meh. ST never fixed a single goddamned balance issue on any iteration of Ep1&2. You really expect them to fix it here?

PJ, go away, you're trying to act like the next Kef and it's just annoying.

Pah, Jon, Anna had slashers first and Kyra did it better. Then again, Kyra didn't die in the first third of the game, so.

And come now, Zorafim, PSIV had La Shiec/Lassic! And we can always debate whether or not the Old Man is Myau. >D And then there's the Elysdeon sequence...

I just want goddamned male PMs. Nevermind whether x class/race/gender combo 'sucks'. I want my friggin shoutabait. And a Rati. All else is trivial. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Apr 7, 2007, 09:23 AM

On 2007-04-07 07:11, Ian-KunX wrote:
PJ, go away, you're trying to act like the next Kef and it's just annoying.

You know what's annoying? All the god-damn old school PS fans that want everything to be like what it was, and then calling ST stupid for changing it.

And the people who think everything is unbalanced to such a wide-array of fuck.

Act? He liked RAmarls. I'LL NEVER JOIN HIM...

[ This Message was edited by: PJ on 2007-04-07 07:23 ]

Sekani

Apr 7, 2007, 09:42 AM

On 2007-04-07 07:23, PJ wrote:

You know what's annoying? All the god-damn old school PS fans that want everything to be like what it was, and then calling ST stupid for changing it.

And the people who think everything is unbalanced to such a wide-array of fuck.

Rashiid

Apr 7, 2007, 09:57 AM

On 2007-04-07 07:23, PJ wrote:
You know what's annoying? All the god-damn old school PS fans that want everything to be like what it was, and then calling ST stupid for changing it.

exactally.

Mikaga

Apr 7, 2007, 10:35 AM

Again, I've ALREADY SAID that "zomg no tradition/nostagia" was not necessarily related.

So... try again.

Apr 7, 2007, 10:50 AM

Fine.

Phantasy Star fans should play Phantasy Star.

Phantasy Star Universe fans will play Phantasy Star Universe.

Same series, different universe (lol get it)

TorterraEndor

Apr 7, 2007, 10:57 AM

On 2007-04-07 08:35, Mikaga wrote:
Again, I've ALREADY SAID that "zomg no tradition/nostagia" was not necessarily related.

So... try again.

You're the one that brought up "Newmans have always been HUs"

So... try again.

And if you ignore that nostalgia crap, then newmans being better at melee is just senseless bitching about newmans not being good at everything.

[ This Message was edited by: TorterraEndor on 2007-04-07 09:01 ]

A2K

Apr 7, 2007, 11:28 AM

Newmans are more like hybrid Espers and Newmans from the classic games here, to be honest. Putting the magey stuff for a moment, yes, Nei and Rika were melee oriented, but more importantly, they were fast, quick attackers--Newmans' high ATA and EVP reflect this... in spirit, anyway.

To be honest, I think they should be able to physically attack a bit faster as well to reflect this (as well as Zeed Val getting an attack speed boost as well). I think that'd solve a few of the issues that were brought up just now. Their power would still be just as low, but they'd end up striking more frequently.

Flwl3ssCowboy

Apr 7, 2007, 11:36 AM

Funny, when you've only played GC up you tend to bitch a lot less about these trivial things. *dives into the pirahna-infested waters*

Golto

Apr 7, 2007, 11:36 AM

PSU could be thousands of years in the future when compared to the old PS games. In the old PS games newmans were closer to beasts than the magic users they are now. Humans could have done farther genetic experiments when making newmans to split the hunter-type tendancies and magic-type. Creating a new race Beasts. Wouldn't be too much of a stretch since Humans did create both the Newman and Beast races.

Mikaga

Apr 7, 2007, 11:38 AM

Actally Zorafim fronted up the "tradition" thing. You don't seem to care beyond the face value of things (even evident in this argument) since here's something I said shortly after his PSFanboy-themed post:

The integrity and tradition of Phantasy Star isn't entirely relevant to the point, of course.
I'll go "your way" and attack the problem face-on though.

"Alright then: Newmans aren't allowed to be good at everythig. I understand that*, because it would make a race overpowered. So why are Casts good at just about everything and NOT overpowered?"

*I understood it long before, but let's conveniently ignore that, eh?

Edit: Post directed at TorterraEndor.

[ This Message was edited by: Mikaga on 2007-04-07 09:46 ]

Flwl3ssCowboy

Apr 7, 2007, 11:38 AM

or we could accept the fact that PSU is in a COMPLETELY different universe like it is, and just get back to reactions from the expansion instead of arguing about newmans

DonRoyale

Apr 7, 2007, 11:48 AM

Uhh, if I remember correctly, this was a discussion on Ambitions of Illumnas, a Phantasy Star Universe expansion.

If you're just gonna blab on about Phantasy Star crap and how PSU should be EXACTLY like PS, kindly leave this thread. This is a discussion about PSU. There's a whole nother forum for PS discussion, thanks.

TorterraEndor

Apr 7, 2007, 11:56 AM

Edit: You know, screw it.

It isn't a race imbalance if you knowingly pick a race to do a class that you knowingly does not have the good stats for.

[ This Message was edited by: TorterraEndor on 2007-04-07 10:00 ]

Mikaga

Apr 7, 2007, 12:44 PM

You're right, it's not.

'course, that's not the issue.

Aah well. Seems nothing'll get done this time around, so back to waiting for PSUv3.

A2K

Apr 7, 2007, 01:18 PM

Well, I wouldn't be so certain of that. Nerfs and buffs have happened in the past for PSU, specifically.

I recall when the game first came out in Japan, Rangers in general were pretty ridiculously overpowered. One would do a Sleeping Warriors run in a party of four or five of them and everything would be frozen and shocked the moment they spawned. Then they nerfed them. Perhaps too much, because they were re-adjusted to be better again (but not too better) later.

Part of the problem in PSO was indeed the heavily client-sided nature of it--stat trends were essentially hard-coded onto the disc. One couldn't really correct the issue with a new disc, because then half the population would have the original set of stats, the other half the new ones.

'Course, they didn't really change anything for the "reset" with Blue Burst, either, but... arguably that whole affair was just to get their feet wet on the PC side of things, though, in preparation for PSU.

That was a bit of a tangent. In any case, we've been all too aware of statistical changes in this game, so far, though. The aforementioned thing with the rangers (which happened before the US release), and, more recently, the nerfing of a lot of skills and buffing of certain bullets.

Serephim

Apr 7, 2007, 01:29 PM

Let me please clear this up with my strong opionion.

The reason for casts overshadowing the Humans and Newmans so horribly is because of the frigging drunk retard that gave casts the ability to cast magic.

In PSO, Casts were both retardedly stronger AND more durable than Humans. But why did Humans still hold their own?

Because humans could use Techniques.

While Casts were busy raping with melee weapons and super high damage they were stuck to healing with Dimates and Trimates. Humar's damage was outshined by the casts *Lvl 20 casts outdamaging lvl 40 Humars*, the Humar could mix up their fighting style by using Resta and other techniques (mostly freezing).

It was the same for both classes, as Female Hunters held their own by being even weaker, yet having better dagger animations and much stronger technique capabalities, plus being able to buff themselves.

Now we have PSU, where every class can do whatever they want, and since they retain their PSO capabilities, Its AUTOMATICALLY unbalanced.

What they should do is simply give Newman and Human classes an invisible % boost on their techniques, ESPICALLY newmans. (maybe Newmans do 50% more damage, Humans 25%, beasts 0% and Casts -10% or -20%, seeing as they shouldnt be able to do it anyway.)

That way, the casts could run in, withstand hits, and spam the Gi spells and what not, while the Newmans on low life support can keep their distance and rape with their retardedly strong nukes. That discourages people to make casts technic classes, and instead if their going to make them Hybrid to something that fits their stats.

Another good reason why Newmans are nerfed is because of the need to use frigging Wands to cast magic.

Hopefully now that Madoogs are out newman hunters can get what they deserve, but sadly the Sonic Team retards have made them Class Specific. If they wernt, the newman hunters could use the Madoogs to make fighting with melee and magic automatic, but with a much weaker form than simply using full wands/staves.

Although if they applied the percentages i suggested, that would make Newman Hunter+Technique fighers a pretty nice combo, seeing as their techinic levels are already low and their hunter stats are lower than that of say a Forte Fighter.

Humans would do good with the combo but less than Newmans, beasts would be medicore with them, and casts would suck with them.

That way,:

Forte+melee classes would be geared towards Beasts/Casts

Technic+Melee classes would be definately geared towards Newmans and humans,

Melee+Gunner classes would be geared towards casts/beasts

Gunner+technic classes would be geared towards humans/newmans

Forte-gunner classes would be Casts/beasts

Forte Technic classes would be Newmans/humans

Casts:3
Beasts:3
Newmans:3
Humans:3

Balanced.

By changing the strength of technics, i believe it can change the whole game balance.

What i did leave out though is Sex, but thats just peference. (For example, male Fortechers would withstand more hits, while female would do more damage. As well as human Fortechers being able to withstand WAY more hits, and Newman fortechers doing WAY more damage.)

Thats my idea anyway.

[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-04-07 11:36 ]

Starrz

Apr 7, 2007, 01:52 PM

Seraphim, you need to learn what's a class, and what's a race.

Newman is a race.

Fortetecher is a class.

See the difference?

Your whole post reeks of generalizations of "OMG NEWMAN = MAGIC"

Serephim

Apr 7, 2007, 02:01 PM

And you need to realize that the RACES are the reason why the CLASSES are unbalanced.

The reason the Newmans are at the bottom are because they ARE a "OMG MAGIC" class, yet their being outdone in their own field by other RACES.

[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-04-07 12:02 ]

hainsaw3

Apr 7, 2007, 02:12 PM

The only thing out of the expansion is the epic feel PSO gave, NOT COPY IT (for god sake don't rip my head off)

run down environment + epic music = win, and to the look of some of the stuff I've seen they're doing a ok job.
But overall I'm hyped for it!

Zorafim

Apr 7, 2007, 02:16 PM

On 2007-04-07 12:01, Serephim wrote:
And you need to realize that the RACES are the reason why the CLASSES are unbalanced.

The reason the Newmans are at the bottom are because they ARE a "OMG MAGIC" class, yet their being outdone in their own field by other RACES.

ST should learn from FFXI. The obvious way to fix this is to make everyone suck at everything so much, that the few points that they do get don't matter.

I joke, but it worked surprisingly well. The cute taru things could actually make decent meleers.

Serephim

Apr 7, 2007, 02:16 PM

I havent heard a single PSU track that is on par with PSO music.

Zorafim

Apr 7, 2007, 02:19 PM

Don't both games have the same composers, even? Maybe they're just purposely making them suck so that newer music will sound better.
And maybe I'm a bowling ball dreaming I'm a cucumber.

Regardless of fanboyism, my favorite character to play is a meleer who can cast some magic (healing is best). I gave my example of how much I loved Myao both as a character and a character build, but another example is FFXI's Paladin. We were the ones who took hits, and in exchange for attack points we took hits very well. As an added bonus, we had very good healing and buffing magic (not as good as a white mage or red mage).
This may be why I didn't mind HUnewearl, despite her being alot less agile than she was supposed to be. I suppose this is what made her overpowered, as well.

So far, I'm rather disappointed in any melee mages this game has. Wartechers hardly have any S rank choices, and get the wrong PA levels for me to care about them. Acrotecher has much too low a melee PA level (despite them having S ranks in mostly melee weapons). I was hoping for a job that specialized in meleeing and could cast a small amount of magic, especially if they had S in Madoogs, in exchange for having terrible ranged weapons. Something like Guntecher for hunters.

Regardless, I'm satisfied with fortefighter for now, but it's still nice to dream. I'm still more disappointed in the lack of Myao job types and in newmen stats.

[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-04-07 12:55 ]

A2K

Apr 7, 2007, 03:55 PM

On 2007-04-07 12:16, Serephim wrote:
I havent heard a single PSU track that is on par with PSO music.

"The Vibe -The End of the Planets-" > "'IDOLA' have the immortal feather"

Oh yeah, that's right. I went there. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I do like the idea of tinkering with technic attack percentages, but that doesn't really address the issues concerning support technics--which don't rely on TP at all. A LV20 buff is as good from a CAST as it is from a newman.

Simplest fix? Cut its range in half for CASTs. Granted, at the LV50 Acrotechers allegedly get you'd probably still get some fairly decent range, but let's face it, at that level they've earned it.

[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2007-04-07 14:01 ]

Mikaga

Apr 7, 2007, 06:27 PM

Am I the only one who prefers the PSU music? ;_;

Kinda agreed with Seraphim's post, though. Not necessarily with the proposition of the fixes, but the general idea. The clear projected theme of the races is "Cast = gunner, Beast = fighter, Newman = techer, Human = all-round" and it's pretty clear in various ways that this is not how things have worked out. Casts are faring better at melee than Humans and - some would argue - even Beasts! Humans resultantly lose their "all-round" title to Casts. Meanwhile Newmans suffer greatly in half the "techer" classes since those don't require TP and they lack everything else, and the deliberate splitting off of support techs will only improve Casts and Beasts with this.

So the designed racial typecasts have gone straight out the window. Casts are the fighters, the gunners, and the all-rounders. Awesome.

Zorafim

Apr 7, 2007, 06:31 PM

That wouldn't be a problem if they didn't add any of that racism in the game in the first place. What's wrong with having different ways of playing the same class?

"The Vibe -The End of the Planets-" > "'IDOLA' have the immortal feather"

I slightly disagree, but I didn't like either of them.

[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-04-07 16:32 ]

Swordstorm

Apr 7, 2007, 07:40 PM

On 2007-04-07 16:27, Mikaga wrote:
Am I the only one who prefers the PSU music? ;_;

Kinda agreed with Seraphim's post, though. Not necessarily with the proposition of the fixes, but the general idea. The clear projected theme of the races is "Cast = gunner, Beast = fighter, Newman = techer, Human = all-round" and it's pretty clear in various ways that this is not how things have worked out. Casts are faring better at melee than Humans and - some would argue - even Beasts! Humans resultantly lose their "all-round" title to Casts. Meanwhile Newmans suffer greatly in half the "techer" classes since those don't require TP and they lack everything else, and the deliberate splitting off of support techs will only improve Casts and Beasts with this.

So the designed racial typecasts have gone straight out the window. Casts are the fighters, the gunners, and the all-rounders. Awesome.

Beasts = Best Hunters in the game, and they get a special ability(Nanoblast).

Casts = Best at everything Ranger, second best at everything Hunter, Best at everyting that combines the two, and they get a special ability(SUV).

Newman = Best Force in the game, lack-luster in comparison to other races in almost every class and they get...... Crea Weapons?

Did I miss something? Forces aren't a very popular class, they're becoming more and more rare on the 360 version. I don't see why Sonic Team wants to discourage people from being Forces when they're already rare.

[ This Message was edited by: Swordstorm on 2007-04-07 17:47 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Swordstorm on 2007-04-07 18:04 ]

SolomonGrundy

Apr 7, 2007, 08:00 PM

The big problem with Casts is that thier 2 downsides (low TAP/MST, low EVP), are not really balanced with thier upsides (HP, ATA, ATP, DFP). Part of the reason or this is debuff/buffs, and that's why folks are so up in arms over Arco techer. It screams CAST.

Humans are actually pretty good, as long as the job they take uses any kind of tech, but does not ONLY tech...so...Wartecher and Guntecker. The big human advantage is being pretty decent in ALL stas, and GT/WT favor this.

I think rather than nerf casts, they should adjust Newmans/humans *slightly* My recomendation? Give Newmans +End (+2/+4 male/female), or something similar. I'd love to play a newman who never got frozen, burned, shocked, etc. That would be...kewl..regardless of job.

[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-04-07 18:28 ]

ZodiacNKnight

Apr 7, 2007, 08:03 PM

On 2007-04-07 12:16, Serephim wrote:
I havent heard a single PSU track that is on par with PSO music.

PSO really did set a high bar music wise...
The only songs that really are quite good is the train and ice contamination, which isn't released yet via online. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Lol but that didn't stop me from downloading the song and just play it over the PSU music. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

The Ice and Fire levels are really something. Especially the spiders.

For those who haven't played offline mode yet, you can listen to Ice Contamination and other songs here:
http://gh.ffshrine.org/song/7124/57

The site has a script that changes the direct link, so I can't post a direct address to the MP3.
You will need to look for: "You have selected 311-contamination-_ice-.mp3. To begin downloading this file, click here."

Phantasy Star Universe OST:

http://gh.ffshrine.org/soundtracks/7124

Phanatsy Star Online OST:
http://bluelaguna.net/music/pstaronlineost/mp3s.php

Bet someone will remember this (Ruins Premium Arranged):http://gh.ffshrine.org/song/2904/9

PSOIII: http://gh.ffshrine.org/song/2922/34

If you haven't tried playing PSO music while playing PSU then I would recommmend it.
Of coarse, only PC players, like myself, have this luxury. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Nothing like good old PSO mines and forest music in PSU.

Second Source: http://bluelaguna.net/music/phantasy-star-universe-ost-soundtrack/mp3s.php

[ This Message was edited by: ZodiacNKnight on 2007-04-07 18:36 ]

[ This Message was edited by: ZodiacNKnight on 2007-04-07 18:37 ]