Could the Beast race have originated in Phantasy Star 3?

[HUnewearl_Meira]

It came to my attention today, that Phantasy Star III may very well have introduced the concept of Beasts as a race into Phantasy Star's associated elements. This, of course, means that Beasts aren't nearly as new as we think. See for yourself.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e358/VanGarrett/monster_beastess.gif

That's the Beastess mob, and its palette swaps include Trogress and Demoness. Then there's also:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e358/VanGarrett/monster_catwoman.gif
Catwoman, which palette swaps into Tigress and Lioness. There's a few other mobs that are similar in concept to the Beast race, though these are the two that most resemble it. What does everyone think?

[Weeaboolits]

I read something about this in an interview in an issue of EGM, gimme a sec and I'll quote it...
"We considered adding the Motavian farmer race from the old Phantasy Star games, and that evolved into the beastman idea" -Takao Miyoshi

[Sinue_v2]

Yeah, Takao confirmed that the Beast race were designed after Motavians. They just don't look anything like Motavians, because apperantly nobody wants fucking aliens in their space sci-fi anymore.

[Nai_Calus]

Yeah. We go from having talking cats, short blue furry things and tall green hairless things as intelligent, if not always cooperative races and even party members to humans, pointy-eared humans, and dog-girls/boys. -_-

So much for diversity.

Yes, PSO did it first, but as far as we know Coral is a single planet and the 'homeworlds' part of the DC intro is incorrect, certainly no other mention is ever made of there being more than one world of origin for PSO's people. Hence no real reason or way in PSO of having alien races. Guhral's got three inhabitable planets though. (And probably some incredibly fucked up tides with them all that close to each other.) You'd think they could do... Something more creative?

But yeah. Lack of aliens in fucking sci-fi for the lose.

[PrinceBrightstar]

On 2007-04-15 06:50, Ian-KunX wrote:
(And probably some incredibly fucked up tides with them all that close to each other.)


Actually the Parakubana Beach is quite calm. Maybe there are stabilizers to make it so that the oceans don't do that kind of thing.

[Nai_Calus]

That's because you're there at the one time of day that half the continent isn't underwater or half the seabed dry. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

(Seriously, WTF is up with total unreality of gravity in things, though? Algol should have crazy tides, Guhral should have crazy tides, hell, Ragol should have them with that big-ass moon... Tsk.)

[HUnewearl_Meira]

On 2007-04-17 10:26, Ian-KunX wrote:
Seriously, WTF is up with total unreality of gravity in things, though? Algol should have crazy tides, Guhral should have crazy tides, hell, Ragol should have them with that big-ass moon... Tsk.



You make me want to see a mid-ocean extreme high tide. No shore for it to wash up on, just the gravity of a celestial body pulling the water up into a near point in the middle of the ocean.

[Nai_Calus]

Dude, that would be so freaking awesome. XD

[Weeaboolits]

0.0 ^____^
I wanna' draw it, it'll be crap, but I want to!

[PrinceBrightstar]

The beach would not be so dry if that was the case. and the city would also be wet too wouldn't it in what you're proposing. Water does not dry up that fast.

[Nai_Calus]

I'm not saying Guhral *does* have crazy tides, I'm saying it *should*. Algol should as well, though the diagrams of orbits note that it would be intermittent, but certainly gravitational forces between the planets in Algol are quite strong and the orbits not entirely stable, as shown by Palma and Motavia swapping orbits. Ragol also, perhaps moreso because the moons are always nearby. The only scenarios in which Ragol gets away with not having nasty tides are one in which the larger of the moons is actually very small but so close it looks large, in which case it would likely eventually end up pulled into Ragol's atmosphere to rather disastrous effects(Even a small meteor would be enough to wipe out life on Earth. A small moon...); or one in which the moon is in fact large but has an extremely low density, low enough to not produce much in the way of a gravitational pull. Unlikely for a what seems to be a solid object rather than a gaseous one. Either way, not too condusive to the evolution of intelligent life, though neither Algol nor Ragol are supposed to have evolved intelligent life - Ragol is settled from elsewhere and the races of Algol were supposedly created by the Great Light.

Guhral appears to be different. Algol's nearest and farthest planets are shown to have temperature extremes. Presumably they're closer to Palma than Mars and Venus are to Earth; they're all habitable, but Motavia is a harsh desert and Dezolis frozen. On the other hand, all three of Guhral's planets seem to be more or less temperate. Moatoob has ice and supposedly was once nicer than it is now. Neudaiz is rather decidedly not frozen. Either they share very close orbits or they actually orbit each other.(Quite possible; take a three-star cluster orbiting in the outer arms of a spiral galaxy and you have a macro version of what I'm talking about. Also note the eventual effects of tidal forces in such a system which will cause it to either fly apart or lead to the death of one or more of the stars.) Transport in Guhral seems to be very dependable and static - Hinting that the planets don't move away from each other much. Parum seems to be viewable from Neudaiz. All three planets are viewable from the LL destination lobby. But from what we know of the planets and of interplanetary transport, we can infer that they have either similar or shared orbits. Thus, they should be subject to each other's gravity and thus cause tides on each other. Potentially very bad ones.

Since such a thing is not conducive to life, however, it has been conveniently ignored. From the Colony, Moatoob is perhaps the size of the Moon at the highest point it reaches in its travels across Earth's sky, Neudaiz is significantly bigger. Presuming that they're earth-sized this would of course place Moatoob farther from Parum than the Earth's moon is. Neudaiz perhaps a bit farther or the same distance. Certainly close enough for gravity to interact, however.

Certainly PSU does not go for 'hard' sci-fi, so the colony has gravity without apparently being spun, so we have gravity generators in use somewhere. So perhaps they've found a way to counteract gravity as well on a global scale. I have no idea how such a thing could be implemented, but assume it has. When? How was it implemented? Could the failure of such a system have contributed to the downfall of the ancient civilization?

Basically, why are we ignoring what ought to happen? (Why didn't intelligent life evolve on all three planets if they're all temperate? Massive weather control? Well, we all know how well *that* works out... PSII anybody? Where *are* the aliens? Were they wiped out?)

But yeah. I wonder about such things. XP

[Weeaboolits]

the aliens probly got pwned during that Unification War, good luck making it through a war that long...

[Nai_Calus]

So should everyone else, though. Recall that the reason Coral is supposedly no longer suitable for habitation is... War. Lots of it. Also, no mention is ever made of there having been other races, not in the game and not in the timeline. Hell, in PS, Motavia has been cut off from Dezolis for 1,000 years and even Chaz isn't surprised to see Dezolians. Just because something isn't around anymore doesn't necessarily mean all trace of it has been wiped out - True, the ancient civilization could have wiped them out, but there ought to be some sort of remnant of something somewhere. More likely that there just never were any, which is meh. I want goddamned aliens in my space sci-fi. DX (Just once I want to see something where the main intelligent race isn't even humanoid, let alone coincidentally exactly like humans. Something weird, yet cool, like Pierson's Puppeteers. Y'know, non-human. Possibly with non-human ideals and morals. I know, I know, your average gaming idiot wouldn't be able to take it. No hot babes to, uh, 'identify' with. >_>)

But yeah, you'd think whatever gave rise to intelligent life on Parum would have given rise to intelligent life on Neudaiz and Moatoob as well. Or did the right comet only hit Parum? Though, Moatoob and Neudaiz have species of flora and fauna that are exclusive to them and presumably evolved there. So why no intelligent non-human life? Then again, as has been postulated, intelligence need not be a form of it that would be immediately recognizable to humans, particularly if the alien in question was different enough/composed of different basic building blocks. Would we even recognize a helium-based lifeform as such, intelligent or no?

I know, I know. It's a video game. I'm thinking too hard. XP

[Weeaboolits]

Helium based? Isn't that a noble gas?

[Nai_Calus]

Helium, He, number 2 on the periodic table, two protons, two neutrons, two electrons, first of the noble gases, yes. Some sci-fi has postulated life based on various forms of helium(Due to Helium's properties, such a thing is highly unlikely, but). Along with any number of other elements. Life as we know it on earth is carbon-based. Hence, there's a good chance that we'd fail to recognize life based on other elements as such as they would of necessity be quite different from what we recognize as life.

[Zorafim]

Now that I'm actually looking at the planets, I would have much rather had PS's explanation to all planets being inhabitable (We forced it to be). Having three planets close enough together to all be able to support life would mean that they would adversely interact with each other. The fact that all three planets are all "nice" doesn't really make sense, nor does it make for much diversity. Beyond that, it was mentioned somewhere that all the races came from one planet (Parum? Maybe Moatoob before it got discombobulated) and migrated to other ones, so changing the weather some would have been a pretty neat addition.

Again, it's a videogame. ST probably didn't think this through enough.

[HUnewearl_Meira]

You're not conveying a lot of familiarity with PSU there, Zorafim. Supposedly, the Humans came from Parum. In turn, the Humans created the Cast race to do the menial chores; the tedious work. Then they created the Newman race in an attempt to create a Super Human. When they discovered Moatoob's wealth of valuable resources, they created the Beast race-- a race that can handle living in Moatoob's harsh climate --to mine and collect those resources.

So really, there are only two substantially habitable (by Humans, at least) planets in Gurhal, which are Parum and Neudaiz. All things considered, that's not really a troublesome number. For example, were Mars a little larger and therefore had a denser atmosphere (the low density of the atmosphere there is what causes its drastic temperature changes between day and night), it could conceivably sustain human life. It's not far from that mark, even now, and with teraforming, Mars could one day be inhabitable. Even Venus can conceivably be made to support human life.

Just because two planets can support life, that doesn't mean they're close enough to eachother to crap all over eachothers' tides.

[PrinceBrightstar]

Ack, scratch that last one from me... I just noticed

http://www.phantasystarmonthly.com/rozenom.bmp



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jonathan_F on 2007-04-22 20:18 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

Moatoob was once as lush and inhabitable as parum and neudaiz are, but was destroyed somehow (A wizard?) a few hundred years back. This would mean that all three planets are close enough together to reasonably hold life.
Also, I don't quite remember hearing anything about any of the planets being terra-formed. Besides the humanoid colonists, all life on the planet seemed to of all started there (unless I missed something in story mode?).

[Kaydin]

On 2007-04-26 14:09, Zorafim wrote:
Besides the humanoid colonists, all life on the planet seemed to of all started there (unless I missed something in story mode?).

Weren't the Beasts genetically engineered by Humans though?

[zandra117]

This is from information that I have gathered in the offline game from talking to every NPC and listening to every bit of dialouge.

In the offline game it says that Moatoob used to be a swampy planet like Neudaiz untill its moon was destroyed during the 500 year war causing all of the surface water that was held up by the lunar tides to recede deep underground. This caused the planet to turn into a desert.
The game also says that Beasts were created by the Humans in order to work under the harsh environment of the turned desert Moatoob.

It also says that here http://pso-world.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2412

According to the timeline in login magazine however... the Beasts were created before the 500 year war which starts in BA 500. Which is impossible because moatoob wasn't a harsh environment untill the 500 year war when its moon was destroyed.

Here is the timeline

page 1:
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7609/psupg1rh6.jpg
Page 2:
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/386/psupg2pe3.jpg

Translation:
http://www.espiokaos.com/psu_guides/psu_timeline.html (this is a rough translation of the timeline that was contained in login magazine. Translated by espiokaos.)

Because the in game information overrides all out of game sources the login magazine PSU timeline is false. (The login timeline was probably formulated by the Cast Supremacy to cover up actual events of the 500 year war.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2007-04-26 17:41 ]</font>