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View Full Version : Did the enemy balance kick in yet?



SolomonGrundy
Apr 13, 2007, 03:12 PM
These guys were getting a power 'adjustment' and I'm wondering if it happened/what was done...

Do bugs have less HP?
Do worms burrow less?
Is worm jellen no longer able to overwrite shifta?
Did they take shooting fire away from worms?

Rashiid
Apr 13, 2007, 03:18 PM
if we can overwrite jellen, why cant they overwrite shifta....

Serephim
Apr 13, 2007, 03:27 PM
a weaker jellen shouldnt be able to override a stronger Shifta.

SolomonGrundy
Apr 13, 2007, 03:35 PM
On 2007-04-13 13:27, Serephim wrote:
a weaker jellen shouldnt be able to override a stronger Shifta.



bingo

Para
Apr 13, 2007, 03:45 PM
Reminds me of PSO where you couldnt jellen/zalure an opponent or be jellen'd/zalured by a weaker level of its counterpart.

Soukosa
Apr 13, 2007, 04:32 PM
Last time I was dealing with Goshins on my old WT, they could never Jellen me when I had Shifta lv 11+ on. This was some time ago too.

Rashiid
Apr 13, 2007, 06:25 PM
my PMs shifta (21+) was overriten by his swipe o jellen

A2K
Apr 13, 2007, 07:12 PM
On 2007-04-13 14:32, Sounomi wrote:
Last time I was dealing with Goshins on my old WT, they could never Jellen me when I had Shifta lv 11+ on. This was some time ago too.

I don't recall this ever being the case. Whatever is active will always be overwritten by a newly applied effect.

The attack power down effect is annoying, but... this is precisely the sort of thing antimates and plain old "watching the mini-map" are designed for. I wouldn't expect it to ever be "fixed", either. Status effects come and go much faster than they did in PSO Episode I & II and beyond.

Soukosa
Apr 13, 2007, 07:56 PM
That's odd. I never once got Jellen'd from them while I was leveling there on my WT o.O (Didn't try to evade their attacks either.) Guess maybe the servers were bugged or something during that time frame *shrug*

SolomonGrundy
Apr 13, 2007, 08:00 PM
ok, so, worm jellen not changed. How about the other stuff. Worms/bees were supposedly altered. anyone notice anything?

Rashiid
Apr 13, 2007, 08:12 PM
nahh, they seem teh same to me.

but, imma force, so i dont pay attantion to that stuff

Proff
Apr 13, 2007, 09:18 PM
On 2007-04-13 17:56, Sounomi wrote:
That's odd. I never once got Jellen'd from them while I was leveling there on my WT o.O (Didn't try to evade their attacks either.) Guess maybe the servers were bugged or something during that time frame *shrug*


The Jellen is attached to their "pop-up" attack. If it does no damage (which is often the case for my Fortefighter) then you won't get debuffed.

Jarek
Apr 13, 2007, 09:32 PM
Well I've only done one run of tunnel recapture on S2 today, but I didn't seem to notice a big change with them.
More noticeably, though it's not directly related to worms or bees, was what I noticed getting to tunnel recapture. I haven't seen anyone else mention it yet, but the vanda's diga has changed (at least on S2). It seemed to be medium leveled and they shot it much lower so it doesn't fly overhead now. So you can't just stand there and fire away and not get nailed.
It certainly makes things more interesting. (the buffed vanda's diga was hitting my 65 FF for 700+, though I wasn't using earth armor. Didn't think I'd have to ;o)

APEXi
Apr 13, 2007, 09:42 PM
bees seem more susceptible to guns

Zorafim
Apr 13, 2007, 10:14 PM
I just did full damage to one of them sorcerer dudes with a melee weapon, which I couldn't do beforehand. Did anyone else notice anything else about the changed enemies?

Jey
Apr 13, 2007, 11:02 PM
OK... I've been running around a bit.
What I've -heard- is that worms have lower hp and bugs somewhat less evasion. There's really no way to measure evasion so...

Control - lv41 Naval should have >2621hp according to the Perfect Bible stats, for a 131 Virus. Virus G did 128, so, pretty close.
Lv45 Vanda, should have 150% base hp for 6592hp, 5% is 329, Virus G hit for 310.

Lv35 Goshin - should have 4642hp according to PB's stats (150% base hp) which equates to a 232hp Virus. Virus G trap hit for 147,
Lv41 Bul Buna - should have >4494hp (120% base) equating to a 224 Virus, Virus G hit for 164

Either way, both wormies seem to have roughly 100% base hp now, unless it was different before update.

Zorafim
Apr 13, 2007, 11:29 PM
Lower HP? That's it?

imfanboy
Apr 13, 2007, 11:52 PM
hell, I'll take lowered HP - I was getting tired of how hard they were to kill. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Zorafim
Apr 13, 2007, 11:57 PM
I'll admit, having them 1/3 dead before they spawn is quite nice. But that was hardly the issue we had with them.

Soukosa
Apr 14, 2007, 12:47 AM
I figured they'd lower the HP on the worms and mizura, the EVP on the bugs, and adjust the reistantances on the gaos. The new sorcerors in the parum area on AoI aren't resistant to melee so I saw the gao one coming.

HerdsmanOfYrr
Apr 14, 2007, 01:00 AM
well havent seen bugs yet, but the worms i've ran into have certainly died a lot faster than last night before the update. Must say that i am very happy. Less playing hide and go seek with stupid worms.

Midicronica
Apr 14, 2007, 11:17 AM
How muched they gimped Mizura's EVP? I guess with all the complaing and people skipping maps,ST decided to do something about it. The result was drastically lowering the Mizura's EVP. When a Beast FF is hitting Mizura each time with his axe without debuffs or buffs something ain't right, eh?

Rashiid
Apr 14, 2007, 11:19 AM
yea Bees were nurfed.

Sychosis
Apr 14, 2007, 11:23 AM
Along with break-less grinds, no more death penalties, maybe if we complain enough we can start at level 200 with 99,999,999 meseta and all weapons at +10?

Who's with me?!

GreenArcher
Apr 14, 2007, 11:26 AM
Well, they made Vanda diga actually hit you now http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Now I must put 5% focus into bullet leveling in Valley Of Carnage http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Mewnie
Apr 14, 2007, 11:29 AM
On 2007-04-14 09:23, Sychosis wrote:
Along with break-less grinds, no more death penalties, maybe if we complain enough we can start at level 200 with 99,999,999 meseta and all weapons at +10?

Who's with me?!



How about if you have a 1% chance to successfully grind, no matter what. Or when you die, your character is deleted and you have to start over again from scatch.

BOY, THAT SOUNDS LIKE FUN, SIGN ME UP.

I for one am looking forward to those changes. Farmgrinding for the rare boards is punishment enough for any sane person, no need to kick them while thier down with forced item loss. Death penalty changes are a good thing, as it will mean moons and giresta will actually have a use.

Shiro_Ryuu
Apr 14, 2007, 11:36 AM
On 2007-04-14 09:23, Sychosis wrote:
Along with break-less grinds, no more death penalties, maybe if we complain enough we can start at level 200 with 99,999,999 meseta and all weapons at +10?

Who's with me?!



Yeah, you know what? This kind of gives me an idea, but I don't wanna verbalize it too much. But yeah, I'm glad to see bees nerfed, now I hope they nerfed the worms and gaozorans as well.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-04-14 09:37 ]</font>

Sychosis
Apr 14, 2007, 11:39 AM
On 2007-04-14 09:29, Mewnie wrote:

On 2007-04-14 09:23, Sychosis wrote:
Along with break-less grinds, no more death penalties, maybe if we complain enough we can start at level 200 with 99,999,999 meseta and all weapons at +10?

Who's with me?!



How about if you have a 1% chance to successfully grind, no matter what. Or when you die, your character is deleted and you have to start over again from scatch.

BOY, THAT SOUNDS LIKE FUN, SIGN ME UP.

I for one am looking forward to those changes. Farmgrinding for the rare boards is punishment enough for any sane person, no need to kick them while thier down with forced item loss. Death penalty changes are a good thing, as it will mean moons and giresta will actually have a use.



There actually were a number of people who swore by Diablo 2's hardcore mode where if you die, your character is gone.

Grinding weapon loss isn't forced, it's a conscious decision you make. They have a disclaimer for a reason.

As for moons and Giresta, why not just allow you to restore your rank partially through their use? The first death will cause you to lose your S rank (as it should), but since you get a good portion back, it would take say, 5 deaths to cost you an A rank?

Going too far in either direction as far as difficulty goes, is putting you on track for disaster.

PJ
Apr 14, 2007, 11:45 AM
On 2007-04-14 09:23, Sychosis wrote:
Along with break-less grinds, no more death penalties, maybe if we complain enough we can start at level 200 with 99,999,999 meseta and all weapons at +10?

Who's with me?!



Sychosis and one of his smart moments http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

I can't tell, but it seems like everyone missed the point...

Yuudai_Riisu
Apr 14, 2007, 11:45 AM
On 2007-04-14 09:23, Sychosis wrote:
Along with break-less grinds, no more death penalties, maybe if we complain enough we can start at level 200 with 99,999,999 meseta and all weapons at +10?

Who's with me?!



Say hello to rest of the Ass brigade, Worm!

ThEoRy
Apr 14, 2007, 12:15 PM
Bees were most certainly severely nerfed. I ran S2 Labs yesterday for hours with no restarts. we ran between 4 and 5 runs per hour. Saved a ton of money on scapes. And even caught 3 rare map spawns. No drops though..

Jey
Apr 14, 2007, 12:19 PM
Yeah, I ran De Ragnus S last night and my hit rate without buffs (maybe Zoldeel lv2 occasionally) was pretty disgusting. Felt like around 75% with a gimp Buten. They still have a lot of hp though.

Gaozoran definately had the melee shield removed. Bel Pannons it might be my imagination, but they don't seem to run at light speed anymore.

Granted we were all lv70-80, but SEED S felt kinda Easy Mode or something...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jey on 2007-04-14 10:22 ]</font>

Yuudai_Riisu
Apr 14, 2007, 02:09 PM
On 2007-04-14 10:19, Jey wrote:
Yeah, I ran De Ragnus S last night and my hit rate without buffs (maybe Zoldeel lv2 occasionally) was pretty disgusting. Felt like around 75% with a gimp Buten. They still have a lot of hp though.

Gaozoran definately had the melee shield removed. Bel Pannons it might be my imagination, but they don't seem to run at light speed anymore.

Granted we were all lv70-80, but SEED S felt kinda Easy Mode or something...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jey on 2007-04-14 10:22 ]</font>


to add to that the S2 on liner line was easy even before the nerf

Xaeris
Apr 14, 2007, 02:42 PM
The mizuras definitely had their HP and EVP nerfed. Not only was my Burn Lv 3 ticking for half damage (560 now compared to 1kish) but I had damn near perfect accuracy on my beast PT using a skill from the freaking *front*. It just wasn't right at all. I used to have to actually try in order to kill these things quickly and efficiently. Now I can just spam Bogga Robado.

Hey guys, if we whine some more, maybe we can get every enemy in the game replaced with badiras!

Shiro_Ryuu
Apr 14, 2007, 03:19 PM
No, wait, maybe whining about race imbalance might make them change things for the better. I don't really care about the other enemies, they already nerfed the worst of the bunch

Zorafim
Apr 14, 2007, 03:26 PM
So, we're sad that there aren't enemies that are terribly overpowered now...?
I really don't see what's to complain about. If bees are so overpowered that people have to change maps when they run into a swarm of them, shouldn't you be happy that they're treated like normal enemies now? These enemies have almost ruined the game because of their high power and low rewards, and now we're sick of how easy they are?

I agree that difficulty is always nice if the rewards are just as good, but there's really no reason that it took this long for these enemies to get nerfed. I just hope that it's enough that more people will start going to different maps now.

Jey
Apr 14, 2007, 03:31 PM
It's just a shock to see just how hard they were nerfed, I feel. A buffed SEED S Gaozoran has more evasion than those lv85 Mizura (well, it sure felt like it), but eh I guess those Foie/Gibarta still hurt like heck.

Zorafim
Apr 14, 2007, 03:36 PM
A magician shouldn't take longer to kill than a giant insect thingy or a demonic gargoyle, though. Magicians are meant to make things burn, and to fall quickly.
Though the bug's eva is probably not the thing that should have been hit (I would have preferred if they had less def, hp, and power), I'm glad that these are now less of a threat than Jarbas.
And worms, well, they can go to hell, nerf or not.

Criss
Apr 14, 2007, 03:48 PM
I haven't had the chance to try Gaos, but they did lower bugs and mizuras' evasion by a lot. I play a beast guntecher, and yesterday, with my Zodial on, two or three of my card bullets would actually hit the bugs, as opposed to an average of one per 3 card bullets before the update. They still hit just as hard as ever, and with their sneaky sleep/poison-needle projectile and rather big megiverse, they're still dangerous enough. It just doesn't take 15 minutes to kill a spawn anymore.

Rashiid
Apr 14, 2007, 04:03 PM
wait.....so ppl finally are accepting bees now??!?!?

back to Sea Labs! (yay for extra 3k per mission now!)

Arcturus_
Apr 14, 2007, 04:52 PM
On 2007-04-14 14:03, Rashiid wrote:
wait.....so ppl finally are accepting bees now??!?!?

More often than before, but there's still a lot of resetting (old habits die hard). The key thing is that a bee run can be completed in under 25 minutes by even a marginal party, whereas it used to take 35 minutes or more.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Arcturus_ on 2007-04-14 14:53 ]</font>

Sylpheed
Apr 14, 2007, 07:15 PM
Bees no officially suck ass they cant do shit to stop people spamming the living daylights out of lab runs *claps hands* well done ST now its even EASIER to make money.

Arika
Apr 14, 2007, 07:28 PM
Noooo, I love that shifta to be able to overwrite, you know? this is how can we prac buff technic, it gonna crazy to rise it to lv 50 ,if buff tech can't overwrite

Neith
Apr 14, 2007, 09:10 PM
Just done Fakis S. It was easy, Gaozorans go down a lot faster now. Thanks ST n_n

Umberger
Apr 14, 2007, 09:17 PM
On 2007-04-14 17:28, Arika wrote:
Noooo, I love that shifta to be able to overwrite, you know? this is how can we prac buff technic, it gonna crazy to rise it to lv 50 ,if buff tech can't overwrite



They gain experience based on number of "hits", not whether it applies or not. You can stand there and cast on the same 6 people over and over, and it'd be the same as if you casted it, waited for the spell to run out, then casted it again ad infinitum (given that you did both the same amount of times).

Libram
Apr 14, 2007, 09:51 PM
The thing is each hit does equal an application for the buffs, so basically Umberger and Arika are saying the exact same thing.