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-Asheth-
Apr 14, 2007, 08:21 AM
I was there last night and there were a few that where there but not its a ghost town

Tahldon
Apr 14, 2007, 08:25 AM
I'm rather fond of the Tunnel Recapture S2 myself actually..

Sychosis
Apr 14, 2007, 08:28 AM
If there is any sort of challenge, of course not.

Rashiid
Apr 14, 2007, 08:29 AM
what Sychosis said.

Cerberus1981
Apr 14, 2007, 08:29 AM
Tunnel Recapture is ok, took about 25 minutes for me and a party of 5 others to do it for the first time.

I only did it once but I'll give it another go soon.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cerberus1981 on 2007-04-14 06:30 ]</font>

Sexy_Raine
Apr 14, 2007, 09:17 AM
I was going to try Tunnel Recapture yesterday, but I was too tired. Is that all we get is 3 new S2 missions? I was hoping for better.
I'm kind of disappointed as JP did get Mad Beasts S2 at about this point in time and we don't.

>Oh, and S2 Vandas throw diga lower now. Fortetechers can't solo VOC as easy as we use to, but still can if your really good. VOC S2 isn't really worth doing for it's rewards though, not worth the hassle.
Mine Defense S2 is like VOC S2, but a lot more solo friendly!

My advice is don't bother with VOC S2, it's not worth it's reward at all.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2007-04-14 07:19 ]</font>

Sekani
Apr 14, 2007, 09:21 AM
On 2007-04-14 06:29, Rashiid wrote:
what Sychosis said.

Elaniel
Apr 14, 2007, 09:25 AM
I find the EXP at level 70 for VoC S2 is amazing

Mewnie
Apr 14, 2007, 09:32 AM
what Sychosis said, automatically assuming that all of us are 70+. He needs to assume less.



powerlevelling.. 1 level to go then I can do recapture S2 as well X3

Neith
Apr 14, 2007, 09:33 AM
VoC S2 was boring I guess.

It's way too easy- the only challenge are the attack-buffed Merhas. Aside from that, it's a walk in the park, and a crappy reward. EXP is alright I guess though.

Haven't done Mine Defense, but I expect that'll be a longer, easier VoC.

Tunnel Recapture...I hated that in C/B/A/S rank anyway. Far too long, far too boring, too many fork sections to split. Adding Lv95 mobs sounds good, but when it's Lv95 Bul Buna/Zoona, no thanks.

Neudaiz > Moatoob

Omega_Weltall
Apr 14, 2007, 09:42 AM
its turned into PSDeRagon again... just a diffrent mission

Sychosis
Apr 14, 2007, 10:19 AM
On 2007-04-14 07:32, Mewnie wrote:


what Sychosis said, automatically assuming that all of us are 70+. He needs to assume less.



powerlevelling.. 1 level to go then I can do recapture S2 as well X3



There is no assuming. It's a fact the the vast majority of the population likes easy to get, sizable rewards.

VanHalen
Apr 14, 2007, 11:14 AM
On 2007-04-14 06:29, Rashiid wrote:
what Sychosis said.



And it makes me cry a little. Well not really cry but just say http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

Mewnie
Apr 14, 2007, 11:22 AM
On 2007-04-14 08:19, Sychosis wrote:

There is no assuming. It's a fact the the vast majority of the population likes easy to get, sizable rewards.



And that's the fault of the players or the game? HMMM.



Anyways, Moatoob has some interesting missions. And the sheer monster density in some maps (from what I've seen) makes for pretty intense fights. The creatures there are more annoying than the other two planets (Kog's damage aura and Vanda lock-on firebreath strafing to name a few) but nothing that makes it impossible.

I haven't run through 'Toob as much as I have Neu or Parum, although folks rave about it being some of the best exp, hands down. As I reach the cap for wartecher, I am for sure going to have a peek there.

Sychosis
Apr 14, 2007, 11:26 AM
On 2007-04-14 09:22, Mewnie wrote:

On 2007-04-14 08:19, Sychosis wrote:

There is no assuming. It's a fact the the vast majority of the population likes easy to get, sizable rewards.



And that's the fault of the players or the game? HMMM.


Both. ST makes it far too little risk, for huge ass rewards, and then the players are ready to dry hump these missions until they bleed.

Mewnie
Apr 14, 2007, 11:32 AM
Did you play Lineage 2 or FFXI? And think they were good games?


You seem to be a huge proponent of punishing players, instead of that thing... what do they call it? Oh yeah, fun.

Sychosis
Apr 14, 2007, 11:47 AM
No actually, I didn't.

Players shouldn't be punished, but there needs to be some semblance of balance. After all, some people DO find it fun to be constantly challenged.

Sekani
Apr 14, 2007, 11:52 AM
On 2007-04-14 09:32, Mewnie wrote:
Did you play Lineage 2 or FFXI? And think they were good games?


You seem to be a huge proponent of punishing players, instead of that thing... what do they call it? Oh yeah, fun.


People did the same thing in FFXI, crowd into the two or three "easiest" spots to gain EXP. I don't see what your point is.

Mewnie
Apr 14, 2007, 11:52 AM
I've seen the terms 'challenge' and 'risk vs reward' bandied about so many times, I can only lol at thier use. Mostly they're used to defend the fallacy that punishing playstyles are good.

What is fun about spending days or weeks grinding one mission over and over for that rare S-Rank board, enduring the abysmally low success chance to synth it, then break it on the first grind? Yeah, they have a disclaimer, but only noobs use ungrinded weapons, amirite?

What is fun about dumping all your savings into Scape Dolls, so you won't look like a noob and get kicked from teams? Besides, Moons and PP are still finite resources, and dying too many times will slow down a mission regardless.

Mewnie
Apr 14, 2007, 12:00 PM
On 2007-04-14 09:52, Sekani wrote:

People did the same thing in FFXI, crowd into the two or three "easiest" spots to gain EXP. I don't see what your point is.



Because there was hardly anything fun about FFXI. The whole game was set up to make everything as tedious as possible.

Leveling was a grind.

Crafting was a grind.

Hell, even travel was a grind.

PSU is grindy, but the missions are more dynamic. No auto-attack/afk to make a sandwich/come back and loot type of play.

Instead of pointing at other players and blaming them for what ails the game, it'd be better served to say, "Hey, ST, why do these missions blow chunks?" That is, if ST or SoA, you know, bothered to listen to us.

Sychosis
Apr 14, 2007, 12:01 PM
On 2007-04-14 09:52, Mewnie wrote:
I've seen the terms 'challenge' and 'risk vs reward' bandied about so many times, I can only lol at thier use. Mostly they're used to defend the fallacy that punishing playstyles are good.

What is fun about spending days or weeks grinding one mission over and over for that rare S-Rank board, enduring the abysmally low success chance to synth it, then break it on the first grind? Yeah, they have a disclaimer, but only noobs use ungrinded weapons, amirite?

What is fun about dumping all your savings into Scape Dolls, so you won't look like a noob and get kicked from teams? Besides, Moons and PP are still finite resources, and dying too many times will slow down a mission regardless.



The same could be said for the term 'fun' and its use in defending players who want everything served to them on a silver platter.

What is fun about being able to afford everything your heart desires in a few hours? To go into a mission and come out with an 'ultra rare' only to realize your friends have a palette full?

What is fun about not even having to pay attention when playing? Where no matter how many times you die you earn a 'perfect' score? With PP constantly regenerating there is indeed an infinite source of Girestas.

Like I've been saying all along, balance, balance, balance.

Sekani
Apr 14, 2007, 12:06 PM
On 2007-04-14 09:52, Mewnie wrote:
I've seen the terms 'challenge' and 'risk vs reward' bandied about so many times, I can only lol at thier use. Mostly they're used to defend the fallacy that punishing playstyles are good.

What is fun about spending days or weeks grinding one mission over and over for that rare S-Rank board, enduring the abysmally low success chance to synth it, then break it on the first grind? Yeah, they have a disclaimer, but only noobs use ungrinded weapons, amirite?

What is fun about dumping all your savings into Scape Dolls, so you won't look like a noob and get kicked from teams? Besides, Moons and PP are still finite resources, and dying too many times will slow down a mission regardless.


While I'm tempted to agree with you, I still don't see what this has to do with people who refuse to do any mission other than Crimson Beast (or whatever's the easiest mission to spam at the moment).

My idea of fun in this game is variety, something that is sorely lacking amongst the majority of the playerbase.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sekani on 2007-04-14 10:08 ]</font>

majan
Apr 14, 2007, 12:10 PM
well,voc and mine defense arent the best.tunnel recapture on the other hand,you will get AT LEAST and I mean AT THE VERY LEAST 26000 experience per run.running this one on S rank wiht luck days resulted in a very ridiculous amount of drops.and I mean that in a good way.so,with monsters 20 levels higher...the drops cant be much worse..yesteday when my buddy and me were running it (took 2 of us with 2 npcs with us 35-40 mins to run it)we didnt find much rares,but wait for a +3 luck day and spam it.you will not be disappointed.

anyway,the missino reward is very slightly better than lab.with a good big party I think its possible to bang out 20 min runs or less.yes,its long,and zoonas/bul bunas are truly little heaps of shit,but if you wade your way and fish for good spawns(the very same way people do with bugs over there at the seabed)you will be just fine.this is the new desert goliath in terms of experience.puts rings around anything else out there.

drua gohras=652 experience killing blow
jishagras=217 killing blow
navals/lapuchas=89(?!?!) killing blow
zoonas/bul bunas..well,idk.probably simlar to jishagras.

you cant beat that with a stick

its not very easy to s rank it becasue drua gohras are about as difficult to not get killed by as a jarba,especially for forces.and the bil de vear at the end (yes,a level 95 champion) is a RIP to fight.truly a nice fun challenge.he will kill you.very quickly,do not doubt it.with a party though hell go down before he can hurt the rank because,hell,people stock scape dolls at lab,so why not do it here too?

my advice:get a party togehter and try it out on a +3 luck day.deal with the mission being somewhat long and somehwat boring because once you get into the groove of doing it its gonna go by faster.go for spawns that start with 4 navals,or jishagras/lapuchas together in the same big first spawn.those are the good runs,no zoonas/bul bunas.the first one may ctually contain zoonas in teh second block but either way,shit,are we gonna be that babyish about it?

play the damn game!

Mewnie
Apr 14, 2007, 12:14 PM
On 2007-04-14 10:01, Sychosis wrote:

The same could be said for the term 'fun' and its use in defending players who want everything served to them on a silver platter.


Fun does not equate to asking for handouts. That's just being lazy.



What is fun about being able to afford everything your heart desires in a few hours?


We had enough of that, thanks to script kiddies. Thankfully, it's recovering.



To go into a mission and come out with an 'ultra rare' only to realize your friends have a palette full?


And what does this mean? Looking at the drop rate of the currently available S-Ranks, we're not going to see a rapid influx of them anytime soon.

The new grind changes coming doesn't mean you dupe your weapon when you grind it, so I fail see where this 'plethora of rares' will come from.



What is fun about not even having to pay attention when playing?


Except, PSU is a game that requires you to pay attention, otherwise you accomplish nothing. You're thinking of WoW.



Where no matter how many times you die you earn a 'perfect' score? With PP constantly regenerating there is indeed an infinite source of Girestas.


It still would take a long time to regenerate enough PP to recover from a near TPK. Or many trips to a vendor and shelling out money for charges/moons. By then, you're in negative cash flow.



Like I've been saying all along, balance, balance, balance.


True. Within reason.

Ryno
Apr 14, 2007, 12:19 PM
(Not a Moatoob Person)

Mewnie
Apr 14, 2007, 12:22 PM
On 2007-04-14 10:06, Sekani wrote:

While I'm tempted to agree with you, I still don't see what this has to do with people who refuse to do any mission other than Crimson Beast (or whatever's the easiest mission to spam at the moment).

My idea of fun in this game is variety, something that is sorely lacking amongst the majority of the playerbase.



True. Some folks are just lazy. But some are like me, who might only play one or two days a week. I go to places like Crimson, because, hey, it's fast MP and I can find a group easy. When I get tired of it, most times a friend will mail me and I'll go help them find that ever elusive me/quick or poke around the planets.

Neith
Apr 14, 2007, 12:23 PM
loldrama

If you want MP, don't go to VoC/MD.
If you want decent EXP, play them.

Simple.

Also, Lineage II was a good game, just far too grind orientated.

Sychosis
Apr 14, 2007, 12:24 PM
Fun does not equate to asking for handouts. That's just being lazy.

And by the same token, challenge does not equate to punishment.


We had enough of that, thanks to script kiddies. Thankfully, it's recovering.

And it's good to see that most of the community doesn't like going to this extreme.


And what does this mean? Looking at the drop rate of the currently available S-Ranks, we're not going to see a rapid influx of them anytime soon.

The new grind changes coming doesn't mean you dupe your weapon when you grind it, so I fail see where this 'plethora of rares' will come from.

It was a hypothetical situation where 12*s drop like candy. There are indeed a few people who take the stance of "I should be able to have everything I want, when I want because I paid for the game and I don't care who I ruin the game for."


Except, PSU is a game that requires you to pay attention, otherwise you accomplish nothing. You're thinking of WoW.

You'd be surprised how little you have to look at the screen while firing nos techs everywhere http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


It still would take a long time to regenerate enough PP to recover from a near TPK. Or many trips to a vendor and shelling out money for charges/moons. By then, you're in negative cash flow.

It takes a lot of moons to deplete 18,000 worth of rewards.


True. Within reason.

Now we're seeing eye to eye http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

ThEoRy
Apr 14, 2007, 12:28 PM
[/quote]

Both. ST makes it far too little risk, for huge ass rewards, and then the players are ready to dry hump these missions until they bleed.

[/quote]

lol "dry hump" !!

-Asheth-
Apr 14, 2007, 01:15 PM
the thing is that there is no purpose to do any other mission besides easy money. I like doing variety but finding a party doing variety that is another thing. Unless your a Solomonkey then the most popular area i.e. crimson beast and seabed are going to stay that way. I did tunnel recap twice yesterday and went back to crimson. I have to agree that there is balance missing in this game alot. I really didnt see it at the beginning or up until the first S missions came out. Now its becoming more evident, the risks and rewards are not balanced. The only way i can see this getting a little better is for st to release s boards on the missions that are lacking reward wise. Or release good units on those boards.

Helly
Apr 14, 2007, 01:47 PM
Moatoob's been my fave planet since the day it was released! Sadly its current S2 missions are just abit to much for me level-wise since I'm only 67. That means I can't even enter Tunnel S2! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif I hang around there and do S or any other difficulty people wanna do though!

pokefiend
Apr 14, 2007, 02:07 PM
Tunnel Recapture S2 is quite rewarding, probably around the same scale as Crimson Beast S2 and Lab Recovery S2. Its no where near as difficult and long as ppl say it is. In fact when in a well-balanced party, your runs may result in less scapes lost than Crimson Beast and Lab Recovery. Vil De Bears really arent that lethal. They are easily frozened and burned, and Mayalee Fury completely owns em.

Ryo_Hayasa
Apr 14, 2007, 02:27 PM
We should organize a group to go and try to get everyone to go to Mot for S2 recapture.

Oh, and i use ungrinded weapons (for the most part. well sorta..) Does that make me a n00b?

I just, i hate it, i hate grinding i hate synthing, i have a pure and near pure PM (91/100) and they still don't synth the things i really need, there goes more money down the hole, no one buys from my shop even though it's fairly priced because everyone basically wants A-rank weapons (ungrindable right now) And well.

I hate the concept of, if you fail grinding you lose your weapon. Many of my favorite weapons have be broken like that. To this day i've never gotten a weapon past 5, and i only grind on 3 luck day.

The game hates me. It's simple as that. It just out right hates me.

Swordstorm
Apr 14, 2007, 02:33 PM
I think I'd run the new S2 missions(Well one of them anyway.) for exp, and a different set of drops. But, exp is of no use to me and it's hard getting a group for Tunnel S2.

Soukosa
Apr 14, 2007, 05:37 PM
On 2007-04-14 11:15, -Asheth- wrote:
The only way i can see this getting a little better is for st to release s boards on the missions that are lacking reward wise. Or release good units on those boards.

Maybe there is but since no one bothers to try them, no one knows about them.

Could also be from the prospect of exp gain, that we got these missions too early. The level requirement is so high that soon after you meet it, you will be maxed out on your level.

Neith
Apr 14, 2007, 05:41 PM
Yeah, even if I wanted to run Tunnel S2 (which I don't, but hey), a lot of my friends aren't 70+, which means they can't do it. These missions would have been better released later I guess.

No-one runs them already (I was on Uni 2 Moatoob earlier, there was all of TWO VoC S2 games), and a lot of people want some Neudaiz S2 missions, since there's only Forest Infiltration so far that has S2 there..

Mystil
Apr 14, 2007, 07:24 PM
Eh... No one likes anything that is released in the game. *shrugs*

DonRoyale
Apr 14, 2007, 07:31 PM
The game's about fun.

TR S2 would be fun...if it didn't take so bloody long.

You lose not even 10 MP for doing Lab S2 and can do it in half the time. The choice seems blatantly obvious.

Part of variety is choices. Convenience therein, the greatest reward in the smallest amount of time. Until something better comes along, people will do the missions with the greatest reward.

Oh wait, excuse my grammar. If something better comes along, it becomes the mission with the greatest award. Riiight...

Ether
Apr 14, 2007, 07:41 PM
People would do these missions if there were new and interesting items to be found in them. PSU fails because theres nothing interesting to hunt for, and money is so important, that theres really no reason to do anything but the highest meseta missions.

Once S rank boards come out this will change a bit, hunting a handful of drop only A rank units really doesn't cut it right now

Mewnie
Apr 14, 2007, 09:09 PM
On 2007-04-14 17:41, Ether wrote:
People would do these missions if there were new and interesting items to be found in them. PSU fails because theres nothing interesting to hunt for, and money is so important, that theres really no reason to do anything but the highest meseta missions.

Once S rank boards come out this will change a bit, hunting a handful of drop only A rank units really doesn't cut it right now



pretty much. I suspected that some of the lower payout missions might have more rare drops in them. I hope so.

Almost done leveling up, then I can focus on looking for boards and units more :3

pionear
Apr 14, 2007, 09:20 PM
Yeah, If they have so more popular S/Weapon/Unit drops on Moatoob, I think more people would go there.

Plus, you have to grind though 2 missions just to get there. I did that once, and when I got there, it was ghost city.
I went though two unecessary missions for nothing and had to go back to my room. I find that to be a waste of time. I wish there were a way to find out if people are there before going through those missions.

Helly
Apr 15, 2007, 12:43 AM
On 2007-04-14 17:31, DonRoyale wrote:
TR S2 would be fun...if it didn't take so bloody long.

??

15-30 minutes is long? How did you survive PSO?


On 2007-04-14 19:20, pionear wrote:
Plus, you have to grind though 2 missions just to get there.

How many missions does it take to reach Raffon Meadow and Agata Islands?

Eleina
Apr 15, 2007, 04:59 AM
It's all about the rewards *shrugs*...Just the other day I took my party on a moatoob world tour and it was much better than spamming crimsom all the time!!! (how many of you have ran system defense, dimmagolus and rogue's shortcut recently?)

Uncle_bob
Apr 15, 2007, 05:14 AM
For everyone bitching about "easy" missions:

Some of us have lives. We have jobs, school, or friends. Or any combination of the three. I have job and to an extent, school. I get home at night.

I don't have 12+ hours to spend playing this game. Missions like Crimson Beast are great for me. No fucking worms or one hit kill bosses. And a decent MP and EXP gain to somewhat compensate for the little playtime I usually have.

If you want a challenge, there's plenty of challenging areas. But don't want to force everyone else to do the same.

SolomonGrundy
Apr 15, 2007, 05:47 AM
On 2007-04-15 03:14, Uncle_bob wrote:
For everyone bitching about "easy" missions:

Some of us have lives. We have jobs, school, or friends. Or any combination of the three. I have job and to an extent, school. I get home at night.

I don't have 12+ hours to spend playing this game. Missions like Crimson Beast are great for me. No fucking worms or one hit kill bosses. And a decent MP and EXP gain to somewhat compensate for the little playtime I usually have.

If you want a challenge, there's plenty of challenging areas. But don't want to force everyone else to do the same.



decent MP? try "best in game for challenge level by far"

rewards need to be restructured for sure. Moatoob is far harder than Neudiaz, which in turn is all KINDS of harder than Parum.

You know MP is messed up when I can do a hive run on C rank and earn 0MP...more than an S rank 'mad creatues.'

Mystil
Apr 15, 2007, 08:22 AM
HIVE however is the endgame area of the PSU. Of course it is going to have drop dead MP compared to weaksauce S rank Mad creatures.

Shiro_Ryuu
Apr 15, 2007, 08:30 AM
On 2007-04-14 17:41, Ether wrote:
People would do these missions if there were new and interesting items to be found in them. PSU fails because theres nothing interesting to hunt for, and money is so important, that theres really no reason to do anything but the highest meseta missions.

Once S rank boards come out this will change a bit, hunting a handful of drop only A rank units really doesn't cut it right now



You know, I kind of agree with this, and this is kind of why I was so glad that haxeta started coming. It made me less afraid of using mates, and made me have enough money to buy more important things like clothes and makeovers. It also meant that I can do more enjoyable missions and less grinding for money or whatever.