warning to all fighgunners and whoever else uses dualies

[majan]

so I finally got the 300k to buy deathmakers last nite.bought it,went to the hive and tried it out on some B monsters.disappointment.

I came to realize that it isnt anything near wat I expected.I was expecting a big damage jump,and the jump was roughly 35ish damage above 3 star ones.granted,the advantage with deathmakers is the ATA,where the jump is rather significant,but I was expecting slightly more out of them in terms of damage.I can deal with that,but I certainly will be downgrading to evil twins because as a cast fighgunner my accuracy is good enough to suffice for now I would guess.when im filthy rich Ill buy som edeathmakers and grindn those sons of bitches.

so yeah,be warned all you dualie-users.deathmakers do not pack damage.its worth getting more for the accuracy than for the damage increase.dont make the same mistake I did and waste 300k on something you thought would be different >.>

[Rashiid]

most ppl get em since thats the highest star twin pistol weapon they can get.

if you can only get up to 9*, might as well....

but the 300k is crazy. 9*s in NPC need to come out to show how stupid these prices are.

[majan]

heard!

yeah thats exactly why I wnet allt he way to 9*s I figured it woudl be worth splurging now so I never have to worry about getting better twin pistols

but fuck it man the damage increase is not worth it...I can get 2 pairs of evil twins with that money and slightly more rather than saving up another fortune to blow on another pair of disappointments.

I guess theyre really good though for like newman guntechers because the accruacy kicks ass.but as a cast fighgunner...I probably dont need such high stuff in accuracy since its good to begin with.by the time Im running missions where evil twins are useless,Im guessing Ill have the cash to go and get some deathmakers by then.and grind those fuckers.

[Neith]

Twin Handguns have weak ATP, to make up for the fact they shoot twice. Difference between 7 and 9 star is tiny on them, you shouldn't expect a huge damage difference..

[Rashiid]

and you gotta add em together, a 35+ from each shot is about 70+ damage in general, which is most weapons when they go up a star rate

[CyarVictor]

I'm pleased with my two sets of deathmakers, both of which I bought for 240k. Sure I may have a 50pt difference between these and Arb Regas, but that's per shot. Two shots means I'm actually doing 100pts more and double the chance for SE inflcition. Dualies seem to be great for dps, SE on mobs, and keeping on the move rather than straight out damage. Especially after getting the bullets past lv11, you'll notice a nice spike in damage with opposite elements. You can never have enough accurancy as any class that can use duallies, especially if you add a Solid / Power S into the mix.

[Akaimizu]

Actually, I made a post like this when someone asked me about getting the DeathMakers. The actual (in battle) increased performance of the Deathmakers, from the Evil Twins, does not justify the price leap. It's too much cost for too little. However, if you aren't strapped for cash, you might as well get the top brand.

I think what also hurts it, a bit, is that the classes using them already have bucketloads of ATA as well. You're going to be pretty darn acurrate late-game, anyway, so you'll probably see a lesser variance, with a few numbers here. Maybe if you scored those early in your gunning career, the number would seem more significant.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-04-19 08:46 ]</font>

[majan]

On 2007-04-19 08:35, CyarVictor wrote:
I'm pleased with my two sets of deathmakers, both of which I bought for 240k. Sure I may have a 50pt difference between these and Arb Regas, but that's per shot. Two shots means I'm actually doing 100pts more and double the chance for SE inflcition. Dualies seem to be great for dps, SE on mobs, and keeping on the move rather than straight out damage. Especially after getting the bullets past lv11, you'll notice a nice spike in damage with opposite elements. You can never have enough accurancy as any class that can use duallies, especially if you add a Solid / Power S into the mix.



right.true.still though for now Im quite sure I can make it with 'twins.I was expecting far more than wat I got and my wallet can be stretched to have 2 evil twins instead of 1 inkling better deathmaker.

true about the ata though I guess.hes only level 46 right now so Im sure by the time I start spamming lab recovery with him hell have more htan enough cash to throw together some deathmakers.

[Shaidar]

I agree with previous posters. 8* is usually alot cheaper making them a better deal for those being careful with their money. I gotta say I'll stick to my Evil Twins until an upgrade is truly justified. Either when 9* drops ALOT in price (I could simply synth them myself however, but I haven't felt the need yet), or I get my hands on even better stuff.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shaidar on 2007-04-19 08:52 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

That synthing option kind of reminds me of Bullet PP Save. To this day, there's technically no better way of getting them than to get that rare drop. The money they're asking for is beyond the amount of work you need to do in order to get it yourself.

[DurakkenX]

you say this as if it were a big surprise...the difference between most weapons and their grade lower or higher is very minimal. only when making large jumps are there any real difference to using something of higher grade or something of lower grade...

[CyarVictor]

Or when there's an armor/weapon combo bonus. You'll notice a nice damage difference, even between a lower rank weapon with a armor bonus than a hgiher rank; or vice versa.

[TorterraEndor]

7*+ twin handguns look cooler.

Generally, not much more useful. But the 35 or whatever extra damage does add up, like others have said.

[Packrat]

I could afford Deathmakers but chose Evil Twins in the end. It's really not worth the small increase in stats for the large increase in price. Twins rely heavily on elemental percentage modifiers also (Lvl 21+ is 24% o_o) so the damage may not be incredible at first but eventually they dish out nicely on monsters weak to that element >_<..

[SolomonGrundy]

for me it was about the PP. I can buy 2 evil twins for the price of 1 death maker. So I did, and now have double the PP at my disposal. Perfect for a GT, who runs out of PP quickly.

[ZeGoose]

ill buy 1 wen 9* r in the stores

[NPCMook]

On 2007-04-19 11:02, Packrat wrote:
I could afford Deathmakers but chose Evil Twins in the end. It's really not worth the small increase in stats for the large increase in price. Twins rely heavily on elemental percentage modifiers also (Lvl 21+ is 24% o_o) so the damage may not be incredible at first but eventually they dish out nicely on monsters weak to that element >_<..

Well I personally would recommend getting twins to 30, and not dropping them at 21, from 20+ they stop gaining 1% ATA, and begin gaining 2% ATT bringing their stats to 155% or 160% depending on the bullet itself. They all max out at 75% ATA

[Reginaldo]

Twin Handguns aren't meant to be power weapons.

[pionear]

Well, just synth them yourself if you think they're too much in player shops.

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-04-19 15:20, pionear wrote:
Well, just synth them yourself if you think they're too much in player shops.



+35 damage each shot on twin guns means +70 if they both hit and over time that more then adds up, if you shoot them over 100 times ( and on s and s2 thats easy to do in a single room!) then thats potentially an extra 700 points of damage, by 1,000 shots that is 7,000, and since they miss less then evil twins you are potentially doing a greater damage ratio still. IE.

Say Evils hit both times 85% of the time and Deaths hit say 88% (not based on actual %'s just an example) then that means Death makers hit more which even if they had equal damage is more damage, more consistantly, but the do also do more damage each shot!!! Over time in the long run and short run the Death Makers are better then you realize, and extra 70 damage is a decent increase but maybe it isn't probably worth 300k, I bought mine for 120k though... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XDeviousX on 2007-04-19 15:41 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XDeviousX on 2007-04-19 15:42 ]</font>

[Nobo]

Finally someone else that relizes deathmakers suck @$$. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_beer.gif

[HandOfThornz]

im a lvl80 human,
forteguneer lvl10,
guntekker lvl10,
fighgunner lvl10,
+ more but not needed for this message,
using no special A slot units,just npc units.
i have all elements dual gun p.a.'s at lvl30(apart from twin maylee-lvl26)
i have x10 deathmakers, as loading time between weps changing on ps2 is too slow....so i cut the load time down by staying on one type of model/wep...

i love using dual guns because i can move around and shoot

damage wise:-
linear line fff ss2 lvl80+ dark elemental monsters,using light p.a. lvl30 dual guns

fortegunner will hit around 300 without buffs/350 with per hit
gunteker will hit around 270 without buffs/ 320 with per hit
fighgunners will hit around 230 without buffs/ 280 with per hit

(buffs= npc item buffs,e.g. agtaride,etc..)

bear in mind the above numbers are per hit. dual guns fire twice at once. so double the number for actually hit point total!

i must amit the dual guns could do with a little damage upgrade. but when we can finally grind A rank with the [B] A grinder's,weps should improve power a bit!

its wierd how fighgunners have the highest ATP of all the classes that can use twin guns and they do the lowest damage.. but this does prove the fact that its worth investing the time into getting p.a's to lvl30 the damage increase is worth it.

if your gonna use dual guns its best to use a class that can get the p.a's to lvl30(fortegunners and guntekers) fighgunners arent worth using dual guns with,as p.a's are capped at lvl20

hope that helps =)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HandOfThornz on 2007-04-19 20:14 ]</font>

[McLaughlin]

Twin Handguns are TOTALLY worth it on Fighgunner. You're an idiot to think otherwise. Not using them turns you into a poor substitute for a Fortefighter. They aren't meant to be "OMGWTFDMG!?!?" They're "lolinfinitecombo".

[Zora]

not sure if anyone has mentioned it or not, but its all about the element PA's. get them up to lvl 10 and youll get your moneys worth as a FG. recently ive played FF till i maxed it and only thing i miss about FG was the fact i could use dualies. its really the only thing that seperates them in terms of effectiveness since i dont really care for double sabers. i do miss the ATA of FG but i absolutely love how well my 30% spears perform as an FF 600-800 damage a swing WITHOUT the PA.

[Sekani]

In case the last three people missed the point of this topic, the usefulness of twin handguns isn't in question. The usefulness of Deathmakers compared to other twin handguns is the issue.

Personally, I'm fine with my Bulletmasters.

[APEXi]

deathmakers w/ lv24 twin freeze put out more damage than my phantom/phantom line combo with ice shot lv29. the only pro/con to that would be SE2 vs SE4. as for a price of 300k, look at it this way, 7* weps cost 90k, 8* 165k, 300k for a 9* doesn't seem so bad, especially when supply/demand comes into the equation with it being sold by "greedy" players. but think about the cost of ingredients, and the it really isnt so bad. of course, you could also just make a range pm, if you havent, and make your own.

[Jakosifer]

Any A rank Twin Pistol is fine, Deathmakers are just the best but they arent godly or anything. What REALLY matters with a Figh and Twin Pistols (And any other class that uses them really) is the level of bullets you're using.

[Gen2000]

On 2007-04-19 09:05, DurakkenX wrote:
you say this as if it were a big surprise...the difference between most weapons and their grade lower or higher is very minimal. only when making large jumps are there any real difference to using something of higher grade or something of lower grade...



Seriously. I came into this thread thinking Twins were nerf in AoI or something. Moving 1*star up (or down) in terms of weapons there is rarely (if ever) a big leap of difference in damage. This shouldn't be shocking at all at this point of the game.

Get/make Deathmakers if you just want strongest Twins currently available, don't get it if you don't like synthing and/or rather pour money into buying the more easily available Evil Twins, simple.

[-Rune-]

I usually dun worry about the dmg so much as the amount of PP it holds. If it holds more PP then overall I'd think you were doing more dmg in the long run. Cause in the end we're all useless without PP, except fer hunters and PT http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[CyarVictor]

300k is actually cheap than how they use to sell for 350-450k. Not saying you should go out there and buy them just because. I prefer the Deathmaker more for the ata even though they damage output is nice. Even as a cast Fortegunner, I want more ata to help with the Solid/Power S negative ata and for high evasion enemies like Mizurhas and Deljabans. I do get zeros here and there, especially when the enemy is aggro'd to me. But play with what you want to just as long as you know your weapons strenght/weakness.

[Akaimizu]

Yeah. It's a little less of an issue for a Guntecher. If we need an ATA boost, we just Zodial ourselves. With ATA numbers as high as we get, a Zodial percentage makes up the difference quite well.

[trust_kill]

8* weapons ftw.

[ljkkjlcm9]

as a Beast Fighgunner, I refuse to use anything but the best in ATA when it comes to my guns, so Deathmakers are where it's at. Say whatever you want, but I love them and think they're well worth it.

THE JACKEL

[MattTheShark]

I'm perfectly fine with my ryo-rayatore's +5 (6* yohmei.) they atp might be lower but it's got 200 more pp which is more than enough to make up for the decreased damage, in my opinion

[majan]

On 2007-04-19 09:05, DurakkenX wrote:
you say this as if it were a big surprise...the difference between most weapons and their grade lower or higher is very minimal. only when making large jumps are there any real difference to using something of higher grade or something of lower grade...



eh not necesasrily,when I jumped frm 5 > 8*s with rods for my force there was quite an increase.talking like 120-160 damage at least,but yea I gues dualies are just different

[Akaimizu]

Well 5 to 8 is a much bigger jump. The case being made with the Twin Gunnies is from 8-9. A much closer jump.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-04-20 12:08 ]</font>

[PMB960]

Actually thats 3* levels so that would be between 40 - 54 more damage per * level which is less than the jump for the 8* - 9*dualies (70).

[CyarVictor]

I can make the money and nothing else is coming out, so why not buy the latest for now? No one rank is the best, but I mean, what's wrong with spending meseta on yourself? With these new S2 runs, you make a good chunk of change quickly. It comes down to whatever you want to use, use it. Just don't be telling others they are idiots for buying a 9*, usually comes out from not being able to buy one themselves.

[Miyuki-chan]

On 2007-04-19 08:30, majan wrote:
heard!

yeah thats exactly why I wnet allt he way to 9*s I figured it woudl be worth splurging now so I never have to worry about getting better twin pistols

but fuck it man the damage increase is not worth it...I can get 2 pairs of evil twins with that money and slightly more rather than saving up another fortune to blow on another pair of disappointments.

I guess theyre really good though for like beast guntechers/fighgunners/fortegunners because the accruacy kicks ass.but as a cast fighgunner...I probably dont need such high stuff in accuracy since its good to begin with.by the time Im running missions where evil twins are useless,Im guessing Ill have the cash to go and get some deathmakers by then.and grind those fuckers.



fixed.

considering that both Newmans and Guntechers have high ata, and the combination gets boosted ATA, the ATT on the Deathmakers is more the bonus for a Newman GT.

[mr_black]

thats y i stick to evil twins only 16atp diff and half the price...i would sell the deathmaker and buy 2 sets of twins

[desturel]

For everyone stating that deathmakers are overpriced at 300k my guess is that some people starting doing the calculations for making one out of three deathmakers on a board.

[B] Deathmaker = 165000
10 IM Photon = 2000 (more if you buy from player shops instead of NPC)
6 Vulcaline = 48000 (more or less depending on player shop)
9 Chicotite = 22500 (less in most player shops or just convert zepotite)
9 Par Ebon = 67500

So
165000
2000
48000
22500
67500
=
305k

Of course this is assuming someone is being really stupid and not farming the materials, (or unlucky and not getting any drops) but instead buying them from NPCs. Also assuming they only make one out of three attempts per board.

If it was Neu Ebon instead of Par Ebon, I would expect the price to go up a bit since Neu anything isn't as plentiful as Par anything. (with 90% of the population staying on Parum that is)

[Chaobo99]

what lvl is ur bullet? bullets are based on ATP % so they can turn the tide.

[Garanz-Baranz]

As said before, the difference in 9* and 8* is very slim...

And only the low ATA weapons get a signifigant boost in ATA, like the Grenaders, and posibly, Laser Cannons.

But i see the choice between 9* and 8* can be appearance wise too... like i DISPISED the purply color of Gur Missal, and have gon back to using Gur Napams... And as my Fortefighter is temporarally Fighgunner, she will only use the Bone Dance for appearance, because again, the purply-pink of the 9* double saber color is bitterly disgusting...

Those are the only 9*s i've seen with a purply-pinkish color... the rest are deep blue...

only if the 9*s had customizable colors...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garanz-Baranz on 2007-04-20 16:46 ]</font>

[AnikoAileron]

I'm fine with 2 pair of Evil Twins. At the time I bought them, I couldn't equip a Deathmaker anyway. I'm down with Evils.