The point of a MMORPG with no Multiplayer Story?

[XDeviousX]

Every good hero needs a Villain that people despise, love to hate, or just plain wanna see them get what they have coming. PSU has many enemies but there are no real villains for people to battle online. Offline you have Renvolt Magashi and the racial tensions that compells (or bores) you onto the end. Online there is a story to follow, but it is a singular even, ie the story cannot be furthered or experienced through team gameplay. The point of any mmorpg is having a team of people contributing to finishing a story or moving a plot along and here in is the problem.

All of the missions players can do together seem to have no purpose or furtherance of any type of plot or story. There are no guardian missions that have a personal or grandeur feel to them. Even offline the free missions are seek and destroy monster killing missions.

The fact that there is no real story to online multiplay I think this might be why people feel bored or unenthused about PSU. There are no npc to talk to/help/give back story/add atmosphere/etc. There are no Missions with special goals/rewards. There is not even any cryptic writing or info to add to any type of drama. In Fact, there really is no drama, just kill hordes of creatures...

People need to feel like they are accomplishing something in an rpg but when an offline story is limitted and vanila, and the online story isn't an epic adventure as well and for some reason solo, then what is the point of calling it a role-playing game? It's more like a Guardians sim game where you buy cloths, fix up your room, and kill monsters for money...

I don't know about you but I need a villain and a purpose to over-throw with my online friends. I need cryptic messages and clues, shady characters, and people to protec/interact with/give me useful info. I want to do missions where I retrive special Items with my group or infiltrate an enemy base camp and find out more about there plots...

As of now, psu has inspired me no drive to play everyday and be involved in any way. I spend most of my time and money helping people learn the game and helping people level their characters. I can't be the only person that feels this way so please give me input.

PS

I hope this doesn't get all of the PSO lovers to make pso/psu comparisons as although it had a plot/story that doesn't help dealing with what PSU "needs".

[Dragon_Knight]

Actualy I would love what you sugest...theres only one problem...to really do that you would need a deticated team of plot writers and programs to do constant work on events. I remember back in PSOBB one of my team guys was complaining that MMOs havn't had the same feeling to them since Ultima online died. Apperatnly in Ultima they had constant updates and one-shot plots for players to foil with game masters being the head enemy most of the time.

While I would like to see a .hack or ultima online style (Meaning both Ultima game play and .hack story wise, had numerous events that only one or a handful of players could complete. Said player would get fame from other fellow players by clearing the event and then GMs would work on making a new story for other players to be the hero in) its just not feasble in todays market both in effort put into making an on going plot as well a smaking it so one or two people are not always the hero. If PSU were already that way DJ Skyepic and Parn would be two of the most celebrated heros for having taken out Dark Falzs several times in a row.

[A2K]

I believe the online story is structured the way it is (as single player missions) because of the success of PSO quests like Soul of Steel and Seat of the Heart. That said, they do lack the... singular defining narrative climax that defined the both of those, but that's only natural do the episodic, serial nature of it: having many released regularly rather than it being a special, one-time event. It's closer to the Governor-General and Lab quests of Blue Burst, I suppose, but even those let you bring a friend.

I do agree with the sentiment, but... let's be honest here, we are a minority. The large majority of the online fanbase of PSU and PSO before it didn't know or even care in the least about Rico or Flowen or Ethan or whoever, much less any of the others.

One of the main reasons, I laughed out loud when the NPC outside the Hunter's Guild on Pioneer 2 in Episode 1 remarked that most hunters only care for items and money, because it ended up being so true.

All that said, I would rather enjoy some 2-6 player story-centric missions myself, even if they were more of the "side story" nature. Anything to get away from free missions.

[XDeviousX]

I'm not talking epic storys but missions with different objectives would write their own stories in players minds. "Retrieve A Photon Design from Relic Site," people would feel like they are helping with the plot even when there was no plot to help... Also random npc's couldn't hurt, the empty lobbies and universes could easily fit some in...

Also you don't have to have new missions 24/7. Instead of photo events on holidays we should get holiday missions with special requirements and maybe a higher chance of meeting holiday rare spawns.

I'm not sure what could be done but there seems to be no point in the day to day PSU log on and off...

[Skuda]

ooo. Randome NPCs and sidequests. That would be a welcome addition. :3

For now... I really feel like I'm part of a mop up crew. Just killing off the rest of the SEED that was left behind from the unification point.

That's... all guardians really are at the moment, it seems.

[A2K]

I was actually surprised more of the informational ones from Story Mode (such as the one with all the information about how the Guardians is organized at the back of the HQ) didn't make their way into Network Mode. The ones that are there are mostly of the "behind the counter" nature, for some reason. Yokus, the girl at the cafe, Gawik, various receptionists...

[Dragon_Knight]

Now that I think about it Yokus is kinda of an odd NPC to just have standing around....in offline exrta mode she doesn't appear at all.

[McLaughlin]

Thing is, PSU isn't an MMORPG.

[Kimil]

On 2007-04-19 21:26, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
Thing is, PSU isn't an MMORPG.



Exactly... Someone please tell all the PSU-reviewers this please? -_-;

[Dragon_Knight]

Yea, yea...its a dungon crawaler I know! I know! I've only been hunting a Pwand for the last 6 years! But still something like the BB government missions would be nice.

[Oniko]

Well, offline story mode is something I never could complete >.> Ethan is just such a bad character to force me to play as, I really have a hard time sticking with it.

However, I do agree that something to give a purpose or meaning to what we do would be nice. Right now, my purpose in doing missions is just for the sake of increasing my characters abilities. While it is enough to keep going, it's not enough to bring me onto PSU everyday. I would love more missions along the lines of Bruce's Dungeon. Ya know, a little intro story, and some fun, simple puzzles.

I'd also love if online storymode let you bring friends. That's my biggest disapointment with it, it feels like, why put it online if you have to play solo =/

I enjoy the game, but some "omgz, the city is being overun by monsters, keel!" would be a great bit of added motivation.

[Kent]

On 2007-04-19 21:28, Kimil wrote:

On 2007-04-19 21:26, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
Thing is, PSU isn't an MMORPG.



Exactly... Someone please tell all the PSU-reviewers this please? -_-;



It's an easy gauge of their integrity.

The downside, of course, is fooling/misleading people who are stupid and/or don't do their research before getting a game.

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-04-19 21:42, Kent wrote:

On 2007-04-19 21:28, Kimil wrote:

On 2007-04-19 21:26, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
Thing is, PSU isn't an MMORPG.



Exactly... Someone please tell all the PSU-reviewers this please? -_-;



It's an easy gauge of their integrity.

The downside, of course, is fooling/misleading people who are stupid and/or don't do their research before getting a game.



Tell sega to not promote and advertise it as a MMORPG and say that you can team up with friends to complete a story whne the friends they mean are all npc...

It wouldn't take much effort or writing power to add some story/story missions. Hopefully AoI will address this, then I can at least say they rushed PSU to fix bugs/reward hardcore gamers with items, money, weapons, and gameplay experience before the real game hits...

[Stezan]

I remember one of my favorite missions in PSO was "Gallon's Treachery," the movie making quest. Me and my friends always died in the ruins running from the big wall of blue fire, but the mission was so unique.
I also enjoyed the mission where u get shrunk in the Mines. very fun also.

Besides Bruce's Dungeon and the Story quests, all the missions are "kill everything" missions, where killing is all u do.

In reality, most missions felt more meaningful in PSO because u'd meet with a client who would explain everything.

PSU's free missions are more comparable to running through the areas in PSO, which was fun, but missions were always better.

[Paramedic]

I want to see multi-player story missions as well. I don't care if they're epic or not, but they certainly could be. I think it'd be really cool if they did multi-player story missions that are extremely difficult or only high level players can do. (Creating an end-game aspect instead of just hunting the strongest/coolest weapons in the game)

Of course, if they did this they'd have to drop some awesome items. Thus giving end-game players substance to their gameplay. PSO got boring for me when I was in Ultimate, and had killed Falz, Olga, and the EP IV boss. (Whatever his name was, it escapes me right now) I had all the weapons/armor/mags I could want by that time as well. I was just playing because I love the game, that was about it. Nothing left to acheive.

[Magician]

Yeah, like others have said, PSU is not an MMORPG.

More like an MMOA(ction) game, with RPG elements.

[Akaimizu]

Not to mention, just saying you can play a game, with RPG elements, online with friends does not denote it as advertising as a MMORPG. There are lists of dungeon crawlers you can play online with friends, advertised in the same vein. Even the Diablo series had that moniker.

[_Swan_]

I think it would be cool if they made the online story missions like star wars kotor were you would make decisions on weather your on the guardians side or side of the illuminus.And than have something on your card that shows that.

[Eleina]

PSU's multipayer story = training with bruce!!

[XDeviousX]

The phantasy star series is an rpg series. To make a PS game and it not an RPG is like advertising PS game as a card game... oh, wait....

PSU is suppose to be an RPG offline and a solo rpg online and just a multiplayer action game/duneon crawler online? Why does this make sense to anyone? It's like making a fighting game that goes online but when you play against actual human apponents online it turns into a virtual chess game... Maybe not so dramatic, but they could have easily put in basic mission with simple story driven TASKs and a few side quest to keep RPG and Action/Dungeon crawlers happy. After all, the PS series is built on being a revolutionary RPG series as 1,2,3,4 and PSO were know for being revolutionary and or the first of their kind. PSU is a mediocre RPG with a visually stunning but basic action game and dundeon crawler elements. Its the "least" of all worlds as oposed to being the "best" or even the most solid of any....

Of coarse I can forgive all of that if AOI is as good as it looks and adds a little depth to the story, multiplayer or not...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XDeviousX on 2007-04-20 10:20 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

Believe me. Even this move was quite forgivable. I mean, look what Sega did to Shining Force. They could've done THAT, but thank goodness they didn't alienate Phantasy Star nearly as badly.

[DurakkenX]

there are a few named NPCs in online mode...

Yokus Melton
Sheena
Mina
Galwik? (i forget the spelling)
and moatoob's and neudaiz's guardian's receptionists

that makes 6....out of over 50 that are in the game... kinda pathetic if you ask me.

[XDeviousX]

They could have at least have people in front of the Aliance military base on Parum and at the communion of light on Neudaiz as well as some of the NPC's in the Guardian headquaters...

[Cracka_J]

I think you're missing the point here. Like others have said, this is more of an action/adventure game where you can level your character and items. I've always hated the bg stories since ps went online, pso was no exception. I hated grueling through the missions on that game, and have yet to touch the offline story mode in psu for the same reasons. This game doesn't need heroes/villans because the real meat of the game is the online community. The stories for any ps game since 2000 have been late, tacked on additions so the people without internet connections don't complain when they rent the game.

[CyarVictor]

I don't recall WoW being story based, same with Neverwinter's night. They had purpose like Horde vs Alliance or that the Neverwinter Night's series had rpg servers for some event driven moments. But none online had really a point A to B to C, now Im done sorta deal. What's the point for a game like PSU or WoW to level up a character, party with friends only to end when you beat a final boss. And then to replay, you'd start back at zero. Online games like PSu should never have a means to an end. Maybe add some co-op event missions, not just soloing online story missions.

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-04-20 11:04, CyarVictor wrote:
I don't recall WoW being story based, same with Neverwinter's night. They had purpose like Horde vs Alliance or that the Neverwinter Night's series had rpg servers for some event driven moments. But none online had really a point A to B to C, now Im done sorta deal. What's the point for a game like PSU or WoW to level up a character, party with friends only to end when you beat a final boss. And then to replay, you'd start back at zero. Online games like PSu should never have a means to an end. Maybe add some co-op event missions, not just soloing online story missions.



First, online RPGs never end until the support or story writers are done updating chapters, evenn then you can still play through, I don't know why that would bother anyone playing PSU as you re-play through missions now...

As for games like WoW and so on, they are not based on a long RPG series with the exception of NWN but D&D has dungeoun crawling elements to it as well..

When I say "Villains" and Story driven missions we I'm not talking a last boss, we have one already... I mean a figure who has dark designs and is the driving force behind unrest. You could keep the same basic PSU set up, just add story driven objective to SOME missions. Retrive a file for extra mp and mesta. Bring back confermation on a fallen guardian for rare synth parts etc...

Last, whats the point of endlessly killing monsters and gaining levels only to fight the same creatures over and over again? At least with even basic story elements it gives people a little insight into what it means to be a guardian.

In FF XI there were optional side missions and bad guys galore, but no real ending or ending boss. I'm not saying change anything, just add something that is optional and enhancing. You wouldn't have to accept side missions or change your play style if you didn't want to. Just and idea to enhance the gameplay for true PS fans.. (I mean true ps rpg fans)

Also, why would I suggest and ending to an rpg adventure online? We have one anyways, last boss included and you've probably done that multiple times so what would the difference be anyways if there were story elements attached???



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XDeviousX on 2007-04-20 11:20 ]</font>

[MomoHana]

Give me the works.

Money.
A large DEDICATED Staff.
A huge fanbase.
Top Notch/Best of the Best Equipment.
and Absolute controll over the game.


And also.. LOTS of Green Tea Ume :3 [or Mochi Icecream]

Then I'm sure I could! :3

[DurakkenX]

FFXI has 500+ sidequests that tells the history of the world, it's mythology, and even current events. Most people ignore the info and only do them to get the item, but people like me love those types of things and actually play every quest possible. (yes i beat every sidequest in FFXI)

Every MMO has quests that tell the story of the world, not just the story of the current events. PSU has only made ONE mission that tell anything about the past and it's very little at that. It is as if the entire game has no history beyond what's currently happening for the most part. And it's not even so much that they only focus on the current either as it is that they are focusing only on the current events that have to deal with the SEED and/or Illumines. Everything else is pushed off.

The game's events aren't even creative...hunt rappies to get a rare item and then hunt GMs in a set of colors to get rares v.v What happened to running through to get a cake to give to someone in return for an item later on that would cause a third item to appear for both of you? What happened to having to chase Nights around, or playing with rappies, or any of the other great events that used to go on...they are gone and are replaced with wear yellow on such and such a day and wait at x point.

[AweOfShe]

Man, I'm not going to have to get the link AGAIN, am I? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[CyarVictor]

PSU is still fairly new. Hell, at least ST has started with the event JP got. What's this whole "gotta catch em all now now now!" deal anyway. If everything, including side quests got thrown all at once at us, I'd bet anything we'd still be hearing these same topics of: "Where's the story?" "Why isn't there more?" "Why can't I find a party?" There are alternative routes like what others have done: RPG universe if it still exists. Players and clans have hosted their own events. So why not do one of those to hold yourself off. If you don't feel like grinding for items, then don't by all means. Actually.... a hosted event sure sounds fun...

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-04-20 11:55, CyarVictor wrote:
PSU is still fairly new. Hell, at least ST has started with the event JP got. What's this whole "gotta catch em all now now now!" deal anyway. If everything, including side quests got thrown all at once at us, I'd bet anything we'd still be hearing these same topics of: "Where's the story?" "Why isn't there more?" "Why can't I find a party?" There are alternative routes like what others have done: RPG universe if it still exists. Players and clans have hosted their own events. So why not do one of those to hold yourself off. If you don't feel like grinding for items, then don't by all means. Actually.... a hosted event sure sounds fun...



I wouldn't complain if there were a "few" side missions as that would mean more were coming, but we have 1 (arguably none..) and that is "Brude". I'm not an extreme type of person. I realized PSU was a rushed project when I bought it, and that at some point they would either update what I wanted onto the servers or bring out an expansion. The latter being true I am willing to let PSU have its faults as long as the expansion delivers the perverbial "Goods" to the many players seeking more from the game.

I think of PSU as a testing ground/reward for players. A testing ground for Illuminus and a reward in the form of already havng good levels, gears, money, and Photon Arts already leveled b4 Illuminus hits the market. The loyal players on PSU will have a headstart on what looks like the "REAL" game and therefore be like the seasoned guardians training the new guys.

That all being said, I hope there are at least basic online multiplayer RPG elements and side quests on the expansion or I'll be very disappointed, personally...

[DurakkenX]

see the thing is...it's been roughly 6 months and we don't have 1/2 of the content levels most other MMOs out there have when they were 1 day old, nor do we have what was promised. The second is a crime and can be prosecuted. The 1st well that's just poor design or management.

The problem with ST and PSU is this game while complete supposedly on disk is not complete. It relies on updating in a timely manor content that will inspire people to keep playing...however not allowing content that should be there from the beginning to be there AND STs track record at making timely updates the game simply fails at it's objective and it causes more people to leave than it makes people stay. The number 1 objective of a company is to make money, but the number one objective of games is to allow people to have fun. There for the best way to make money is make the game as fun as possible for as many people as possible so that you make as much money as possible. However ST for some reason simply doesn't follow this logic and cause the game to fail.

[Zantra]

Play City of heroes/villians, or World of Warcraft. PSU is just mindless fun. Oh, Guild Wars is also a very good game, for what you seem to be looking for.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zantra on 2007-04-20 12:18 ]</font>

[Sev]

The entire offline Story Mode explains SEED, Guardian's, and other factions of the world like the Rogues, AMF, and the Communion of Gurhal... If you played the game offline, you don't need to get this whole explaination all over again online, that just doesn't make any sense. They have story missions online, but the complaints there are no different then that of offline mode.

"I don't like Laia!"
"Ethan's annoying!"

That's fine, that's your opinion. But that's where the story is... It doesn't really matter if you do it with friends or not, for the simple fact that you do offline alone in the first place. And the story missions online, are just a continuation of the offline story. I just think it's kinda strange to say there's no story to the game online, when there is. Plus, looking at it from a broader perspective, every mission you do is connected with what it means to be a Guardian. The story events already explain why you're fighting, and everything from there is simply up to you.

And I don't really look at Holiday enemies as an event. Simply put.

At the same time, I didn't look at the Cake quest as an event either. I looked at it as a mission. The only "Event" that went on durring PSO was Maximum Attack. Oh, and the marriage thing I guess. I won't argue, those missions were fun. But they weren't things that I did over and over.

[AweOfShe]

On 2007-04-20 12:05, DurakkenX wrote:
see the thing is...it's been roughly 6 months and we don't have 1/2 of the content levels most other MMOs out there have when they were 1 day old, nor do we have what was promised. The second is a crime and can be prosecuted. The 1st well that's just poor design or management.

The problem with ST and PSU is this game while complete supposedly on disk is not complete. It relies on updating in a timely manor content that will inspire people to keep playing...however not allowing content that should be there from the beginning to be there AND STs track record at making timely updates the game simply fails at it's objective and it causes more people to leave than it makes people stay. The number 1 objective of a company is to make money, but the number one objective of games is to allow people to have fun. There for the best way to make money is make the game as fun as possible for as many people as possible so that you make as much money as possible. However ST for some reason simply doesn't follow this logic and cause the game to fail.



It's also the mindset of the community, which determines how a game does too, imo.

Players are never gonna be having fun, if they're always gonna be picky as shit about everything that DOES get released, and go back to Crimson Beast because of the "OMFG REWARDZ". Not to mention there's those that will always be like "Oh, PSU should do this, because others games did it". And watch, if ST did follow the whim of every single player on the game, many will be there to bitch about how they don't like it. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I still think the mindset of the community failed themselves, as much as, if not more than ST actually did. Because seriously, I have fun with this game in so many more ways than just killing shit. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Since that went off-topic for a bit, here's something on-topic. You want story? Join a random game and start some drama. There's your soap-opera. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-04-20 12:16, Sev wrote:
The entire offline Story Mode explains SEED, Guardian's, and other factions of the world like the Rogues, AMF, and the Communion of Gurhal... If you played the game offline, you don't need to get this whole explaination all over again online, that just doesn't make any sense. They have story missions online, but the complaints there are no different then that of offline mode.

"I don't like Laia!"
"Ethan's annoying!"

That's fine, that's your opinion. But that's where the story is... It doesn't really matter if you do it with friends or not, for the simple fact that you do offline alone in the first place. And the story missions online, are just a continuation of the offline story. I just think it's kinda strange to say there's no story to the game online, when there is. Plus, looking at it from a broader perspective, every mission you do is connected with what it means to be a Guardian. The story events already explain why you're fighting, and everything from there is simply up to you.

And I don't really look at Holiday enemies as an event. Simply put.

At the same time, I didn't look at the Cake quest as an event either. I looked at it as a mission. The only "Event" that went on durring PSO was Maximum Attack. Oh, and the marriage thing I guess. I won't argue, those missions were fun. But they weren't things that I did over and over.



Before you flame please read what people are saying..

Point 1: The offline/online story is weak and under developed for a PS game imo

Point 2: There are no MUlTIPLAYER online story RELATED missions or side missions...

Point 3: There are no SPECIAL EVENT MISSIONS Just find the gm for your picture/decoration/rappy feather...

Point 4: Even Sega themselves said they rushed the game because they didn't want to lose interest because they annouced the development a bit too soon. They were suppose to finish it with updates but I gues decided to make Illuminous to "FIX" wht they themselves also felt was missing/broken in this game.

Also, I haven't seen anyone complain about how "Ethan sux" or "Laia is worthless..." on this thread. Is it so hard to NOT read into what people say when they write a post..

Why do people always get worked up when somedoby suggests something that could be added on to enhance gameplay and value? I'm not talking huge changes, just additions or enhancement to the current game which are of an OPTIONAL nature...

[Sev]

Are you telling me to read now before I flame?

Or read before I flamed previously?

Because the previous post wasn't a flame. And this isn't really a flame either. I'm simply stating what I think. Your opinion on the story is fine and all, but the story is still there. Personally, I liked it. And personally, I don't care if the story missions are cooperative or not... Because I'm playing them for the story, not to stop halfway through and discuss the story with a friend that's tagging along... Did you ever wonder why in most of those FFXI sidequests that you loved so much, even if you did them with a friend, they only show your character when they go into their little cutscene modes? It's because for the most part, they're only tryin to focus on your role in the quest or mission you just accomplished.

I don't see why people get so defensive everytime someone puts up a counter argument. All of a sudden, I say a few things that I believe, and I'm flaming someone. Without cursing at that. Amazing.

Oh, btw...


Ethan is just such a bad character to force me to play as

Read upwards, it's there.

It's not like this is the first time pepole have said anything about not liking Ethan or Laia, just go around and read some posts and you'll find out exactly what they think haha. Your suggesting things that would enhance the game for a few people, sure, I'd love better events like some Maximum Attack to come stateside... But aside from that, I don't really consider anything else to be an event. It would just be a mission. More missions along the lines of Bruce's dungeon where you take the request from a Story Mode NPC would be great. As long as the actual mission is fun and all, but it's not going to make or break the game at this moment. Maybe for some people, but not for most.

[Emrald]

The idea itself is win. I'd even pay a bit extra on my monthly fee to play online story multiplayer

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-04-20 12:48, Sev wrote:
Are you telling me to read now before I flame?

Or read before I flamed previously?

Because the previous post wasn't a flame. And this isn't really a flame either. I'm simply stating what I think. Your opinion on the story is fine and all, but the story is still there. Personally, I liked it. And personally, I don't care if the story missions are cooperative or not... Because I'm playing them for the story, not to stop halfway through and discuss the story with a friend that's tagging along... Did you ever wonder why in most of those FFXI sidequests that you loved so much, even if you did them with a friend, they only show your character when they go into their little cutscene modes? It's because for the most part, they're only tryin to focus on your role in the quest or mission you just accomplished.

I don't see why people get so defensive everytime someone puts up a counter argument. All of a sudden, I say a few things that I believe, and I'm flaming someone. Without cursing at that. Amazing.

Oh, btw...


Ethan is just such a bad character to force me to play as

Read upwards, it's there.

It's not like this is the first time pepole have said anything about not liking Ethan or Laia, just go around and read some posts and you'll find out exactly what they think haha. Your suggesting things that would enhance the game for a few people, sure, I'd love better events like some Maximum Attack to come stateside... But aside from that, I don't really consider anything else to be an event. It would just be a mission. More missions along the lines of Bruce's dungeon where you take the request from a Story Mode NPC would be great. As long as the actual mission is fun and all, but it's not going to make or break the game at this moment. Maybe for some people, but not for most.



I would say most people interested in a PS game are RPG fans or into story-telling and in depth story driven games...

On the "ethan is a bad main character" comment, that has nothing to do with the main topic but if you're going to make an RPG in this day and age your main character needs to be strong or customizable, Ethan imo and some others isn't a character we can relate to or get behind, and you cannot make your own main character. There is also no further plot on extra mode.. (But all that is off topic)

I never once said there was no story, just that imo the story was weak for a PS story. (actually for most game stories..) There is also a difference between a heavily influenced story mission, and a side mission with story based objectives. Doing any mission now and adding a "retrive thise" or "scan that" for "Extra mission rewards" doesn't make all that big of a change except add some aumbiance to the game and help create a "feel" of something meaningful to achieve.

You're talking extra story, plot twists, and emersing evets and I'm talking reference , context, and astectics. (And Astectics is what this game is about! j/k) any cryptic messages could be filled in by NPC's and so forht. Side missions would be more like "Bruce" and optional as well, and like "Bruce", people couldn't just join in whenever they wanted either...

[DurakkenX]

just about anyone still playing this game plays it because of PSO...

Those that are into the story and such aspects of the game almost never mention Ethan or Laia as being weak or bad... BUT Ethan as far as I am concerned is weak from a "character" stand point as in a personality trait rather than in reference to Ethan vs Laia... At the beginning he hates the Guardians who are pretty much those who protect peace and equality in the system...and then he changes his mind and then he is painted as someone who is either weak or stupid, depending on the situation, who then gets attached to a few characters along with others and is dragged into a dangerous situation which he really doesn't care to be in and just happens to make it out alive. He's weak, dumb, and has no heroic qualities to him what so ever. He doesn't stand up for what he believes in but merely falls into a plot that he doesn't try to stop or even make a fuss about.

Then on top of that we have Magashi who is the villian who gets caught by ethan several times over the course of the game accidentally. If Ethan is dumb and you get caught by Ethan what does that say about you?

More over the game just has no life to it... It has little history... It has no people who are grey area. No matter how you look at things every character is either good or bad and that is just bad story telling.

[Sev]

On 2007-04-20 13:35, DurakkenX wrote:
just about anyone still playing this game plays it because of PSO...

I'll agree with this to a point. But a game is a game... You didn't have to play PSO to get into PSU of course. It could just be that ya know... People saw that game... And thought it... Looked good?

Not workin for ya?


Those that are into the story and such aspects of the game almost never mention Ethan or Laia as being weak or bad... BUT Ethan as far as I am concerned is weak from a "character" stand point as in a personality trait rather than in reference to Ethan vs Laia... At the beginning he hates the Guardians who are pretty much those who protect peace and equality in the system...and then he changes his mind and then he is painted as someone who is either weak or stupid, depending on the situation, who then gets attached to a few characters along with others and is dragged into a dangerous situation which he really doesn't care to be in and just happens to make it out alive. He's weak, dumb, and has no heroic qualities to him what so ever. He doesn't stand up for what he believes in but merely falls into a plot that he doesn't try to stop or even make a fuss about.

Chaz anyone? If memory serves, he was painted in the same kinda way. It's not the first time you've ever seen a reluctant Hero... And at that, his hate for the Guardians pretty much subsides when he says that they're there to help. Before this, you have to understand that there was a long... LONG time of peace. In times of peace, authority figures just seem to be out to give the average citizen a hard time. It also would have to do with his knowledge of Guardians as well.



Then on top of that we have Magashi who is the villian who gets caught by ethan several times over the course of the game accidentally. If Ethan is dumb and you get caught by Ethan what does that say about you?

That you got bad luck? I don't really know how else you wanna explain this, seeing as your only looking from the viewpoint of "Ethan is dumb" so getting caught by him makes you dumber. Which is kinda... Well it's just not a good argument.



More over the game just has no life to it... It has little history... It has no people who are grey area. No matter how you look at things every character is either good or bad and that is just bad story telling.

Rogues wouldn't be a "Grey" area chraracter? I don't really understand that. And not all game histories need to be explained, only bits and pieces of them normally need to come to light. It's strange, because to my knowledge alot of the PSO story is based on speculation because it was never really spelled out in the first place. Events that happened in the game ,were pieced together by players... And most of them, were steadily trying to connect it to the older games. Maybe that's just how I saw it.

I don't have a problem with the games story, it made me laugh at some points, it looked cool at some points, and it had a few somber moments. I'm not really a critical person, I take things at face value so I haven't looked at this from the perspective of it being a "PS" game. I've only looked at it, as being a game. And as a game, it's pretty fun. There are things that could've been done better, and there's things I'd love to see added in. But in essence, I like the game that I'm playing. I don't have many qualms with the story, and the fact that there are parts that haven't been explained... Only means that they have room to explain those things in the future if they want to. That's how I look at it.

[Jife_Jifremok]

To me, it sounds like Ethan started going into that grey area at the start of the online story missions. Probably because he stopped getting so much screentime. XD

The current story's still pretty weak, and the lore feels weak too. Many things seem to be missing, and I don't mean story events that are meant to be missing. Where's the culture (aside from the broad stereotypes)? Where's the history?

What I got from story mode was much too forgettable, and some descriptions on items is just not enough. For instance, one weapon (was it the Serafi Harp?) had a description that mentioned "Gurnal legend". What legend was this?

Yeah, some more story-oriented content could perhaps bring some more life into the story and aesthetics of the game. Making it multiplayer-oriented would help people to actually see it and um, NOT have to put up with Ethan or Laya just to get some damn story.

[ShadowDragon28]

Some side-story quests and some more co-op missions that reveal more backstory on Gurahl's history, and current characters/conspiracies etc would be nice.

For the most part I concur with Sev. Look me up online sometime Sev, let's team up sometime. I for one don't mind Ethan or Laia {Raia}....

In front of/in Linear Line or at Neudaiz Uni 15 doing Forested Islands are where I'm usually at...

[Zorafim]

I like sidequests, the game should probably get more of them. It's what adds depth to the game. The main missions tell what happens in the Guardians and overall in Gurhal, while the sidequests shows what happens with the random people all around Gurhal. While the sidequests don't give you anything of important value, they add significantly to the main story since you know what you're protecting.

For instance, take PSO's Falz (easiest example, I can come up with another one if you don't like it). You could easily go from forest through ruins, taking in the pretty fights, and fight the bosses not really knowing anything about them. Or you could do the hunter missions to learn about the society in Pioneer II and how this god is effecting them, how De Rol Le and the caves were created, and why you're being attacked by robots.

Right now, we seem to be mostly in the forest > ruins runs, though story mode did give a basic background before leading up to the HIVE invasion and destruction. I think more of that would be nice, and I don't doubt that I'll see more of it eventually, but for now would a few more missions with more than a page's worth of duologue be too much to ask for?

[WhyteTyger]

Well being that it's been out this long, if they were going to be adding the kind of quests people wanted, I'd think we'd have started to see them. I don't begrudge them for the game not being Phantasy Star IV, since PSO killed any hope of that a long time ago (someone mentioned Shining Soul/Force, but none of their other properties have fared very well either). But PSO did have quite a few quests that had (even a little bit) more than just 'kill things from beginning to end'. And when you try and keep the other people alive, it's mostly so you will get more points, not because of any failure or emotional attachment (I think Laia's neat looking, but she's maybe more trouble then she's worth).

I think the best kind of solution would be the addition of missions that had more of a tiered feel to them. Initially only one or two are available (all of the Story MOde/Free Missions would still be available, natch), but as you completed them, others would open up, to give you a sense of progress. And we are not talking about epic world-ending plots, even a few quests where you hunt down a Rogue leader, or a Guardian gone AWOL (wait, we have some of those) would be nice. Something where the boss at the end wasn't just a ramped up Vanna with a crown in his title. And it could still have good loot, give good rewards, but tell a story for those of us who would like one. And you can make it skippable for those who just want to get in and get out.

I just did Bruce's Dungeon for the first time yesterday (Thank you Sharky) and it left me feeling sad, knowing it was currently the only one of it's kind in the game. There is not much too it, but there is still more there than any of the ones I did on Parum.

[DurakkenX]

Anytime a mission/quest/sidequest that contains story requires you to group together is bad in my opinion...

[XDeviousX]

On 2007-04-20 15:13, DurakkenX wrote:
Anytime a mission/quest/sidequest that contains story requires you to group together is bad in my opinion...



I agree, Missions shouldn't force you to have party members but reward you more for having them/become more challeging with more memberss...

I'm sure more Bruce type missions will come out on PSU and a few will more then likely be on AOI as well, hopefully...

Ethen and Laia aren't "bad" characters, just hard for MOST gamers to connect with which is the reason everyone loves Cloud from ff VII and hates Squall from ff VIII (Although I liked Squal but could see why others didn't)

To be fair, Ethen does seem more like chaz then any PS series character I could think of, and although I loved ps4 and hated Chaze, he was part of a Team, altbeit the leader, he could be forgotton about as your team members has stregnths that covered his character flaws. All the npc characters around Ethen seem to be shallow when it comes to character developement, at least in my opinion. Nothing is really learned about Hyuga, Lumia, Maya, or Leo, but we do learn a scant about tonnio/liina and a lot about Karen, maybe even more so then Ethen. He has a back story, but no character depth with it. We know he has a father and sister, but why does he do the things he does? What drives him beside the end where he wants to save his friends. I'd love to see Ethen with MORE direction then what they gave, but this is all off topic. Maybe somebody should make a topic about Ethen and PSU's plot or lack there of...

[Helly]

CyberConnect2 (.hack creators) stated that they looked at PSO and various other online games for inspiration and stuff. I have to wonder what exactly Sonic Team was looking at when they decided to give us mere "ghost" citizens to protect rather than NPC's to chat with and stories/quests to fulfill... -_-;

And when exactly do they plan to update the Glossary again? It used to update as you finished Ep2 missions up until about chapter 4 or 5. Since then.. nothing. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[DurakkenX]

On 2007-04-20 16:27, XDeviousX wrote:

On 2007-04-20 15:13, DurakkenX wrote:
Anytime a mission/quest/sidequest that contains story requires you to group together is bad in my opinion...



I agree, Missions shouldn't force you to have party members but reward you more for having them/become more challeging with more memberss...

I'm sure more Bruce type missions will come out on PSU and a few will more then likely be on AOI as well, hopefully...

Ethen and Laia aren't "bad" characters, just hard for MOST gamers to connect with which is the reason everyone loves Cloud from ff VII and hates Squall from ff VIII (Although I liked Squal but could see why others didn't)

To be fair, Ethen does seem more like chaz then any PS series character I could think of, and although I loved ps4 and hated Chaze, he was part of a Team, altbeit the leader, he could be forgotton about as your team members has stregnths that covered his character flaws. All the npc characters around Ethen seem to be shallow when it comes to character developement, at least in my opinion. Nothing is really learned about Hyuga, Lumia, Maya, or Leo, but we do learn a scant about tonnio/liina and a lot about Karen, maybe even more so then Ethen. He has a back story, but no character depth with it. We know he has a father and sister, but why does he do the things he does? What drives him beside the end where he wants to save his friends. I'd love to see Ethen with MORE direction then what they gave, but this is all off topic. Maybe somebody should make a topic about Ethen and PSU's plot or lack there of...



actually what we know about Ethan and Lumia for that matter is that...

Ethan was born in AC0083. His father, A famous Guardian named Olson, died when he was 4 or 5 during a guardians' mission. His sister was born around the same time and a year or so later his mother died after trying to provide for his family alone. He and his sister then was sent to live with his uncle.

He had a pet named Pete and he had never left the GUARDIANS colony before AC0100.

Also he came in 2nd in a competition on the colony that is much like a fencing competition in AC0099.

in AC0105 he attempted to kill President Dallgun or is involved in a undercover mission where the assassination attempt was a ploy to earn the trust of the Illumines. The Divine maiden has something to do with this plan as well and may in fact mean the CoG has something to do with Illumines.

That's pretty much everything we know about Ethan and Lumia.

[Oniko]

I have to wonder what exactly Sonic Team was looking at when they decided to give us mere "ghost" citizens to protect rather than NPC's to chat with and stories/quests to fulfill... -_-;

I never understood that. From a distance, they make the area look nice and populated, but the fact they just vanish defeats that whole purpose =/ Even if they didn't talk, they could at least not fade into an abyss, kinda makes you feel like you're protecting the dead >.>

Honestly though, I'd be happy with 5 or 6 more Bruce clones XD I really liked that mission, when it was first released I always hoped for more, but I'm kinda sad that none have appeared since. I still think there will be more in the future though, I'm just impatient =P

[Kent]

Being that this topic is supposedly about an MMORPG (or even an MMO-anything), why is it in PSU General and not Off-Topic?

PSU, on the other hand, really could do with a semblance of an ongoing story... However, the type of game that it is, somewhat impedes on this, making a storyline something that would prove quite tricky to handle. In PSO, another non-MMO game, there was a story, and there was linear progression: You start off in the forest, and work your way underground from the central dome, and eventually go and kill the manifestation of pure, universal evil, whilst recovering data from the previous crash to find out what the hell happened.

In PSU, it's... Go kill stuff. No story that other players can take part in together.

Is PSU more engaging of an experience than PSOv1 was? No, not really. Close to being about the same, with all of the engine enhancements (lol) and features, taking place instead of the multiplayer story.

Is PSU as engaging as PSOEp. I/II or Blue Burst were? No way in hell. Not even close. There's too much actual story here, too much of a purpose for doing what you're doing in each episode, for PSU to even be within an earshot of it. Then you have things like Challenge mode (which was what made later versions of PSO so great), and there's just no contest.

But then, you have to realize, that PSU is also the first edition of a new game. It's not the PSO2 we all wanted it to be. That simple fact, has detrimented the experience greatly for returning fans that've grown tired of the content PSO had to offer. You can only do the same thing so many times, before it becomes just plain boring. The lack of variation in PSU maps, makes this exponentially worse.

While there's no doubt that a multiplayer story mode would be a great addition to PSU's repertoire, the game has some much larger problems as it stands.

[therealAERO]

Hey do you guys remember the event in PSO where you had to chase after "CAL" It had a very .hack feel plus you actual had to fight other Guild Members, that was the coolest quest I ever played. It was so dark, and creepy with Cal warping in and out and causing fire balls to rain down.

It was very "Tsukasa" Loved it. If we saw some cryptic quests with more dialogue than I think that would help PSU as a whole.