The problem with meseta..

[DAMASCUS]

I have been thinking for the longest time about opening a shop but nixed that idea once I found out about the 'magic' meseta; pc players had a trick for multiplied selling of items. This made the online economy effectively dead; dead = fixed = debatable

How do the current shop owners feel about this and should I just take the stick out of my hind quarters and rake in the meseta??

[Kinako78]

How are we supposed to know what the market price for certain items are? And by certain items, I mean the ones that can't be bought in any store.

[Itsuki]

Just rake in the meseta. While the economy is to some extent, dead, it forces you to evolve with the new gameplay that grew from it. That requires you to have a hefty amount of meseta, since people are going to whine at you for not having up to date equipment and scapes and all that jazz. And in the long run, gimp you compared to the average player.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-05-01 09:35 ]</font>

[Mayu]

Rake it in, The economy is dead as it is http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif. Plus your going to need it if you want to make stuff anyway due to ''High Prices''

[Kinako78]

That still doesn't answer my question.

[Kaydin]

On 2007-05-01 09:33, Kinako78 wrote:
How are we supposed to know what the market price for certain items are? And by certain items, I mean the ones that can't be bought in any store.Search other player's shops, and price yours about the same.

[Kinako78]

Ok, I'm officially dumb. I should've figured that out. Thanks, Kaydin.

[DAMASCUS]

On 2007-05-01 09:33, Kinako78 wrote:
How are we supposed to know what the market price for certain items are? And by certain items, I mean the ones that can't be bought in any store.



I guess if I want to try selling a Rubinad for a cool mil' and it sells then I am golden. Certain non-purchase prices aren't going to be relevant until said item can actually be used for a board though; i.e. Relic Edge. Starting the bidding at 999999999...ad nauseum is a bit foolish I would think. We have all seen those.

[Itsuki]

On 2007-05-01 10:11, DAMASCUS wrote:
Certain non-purchase prices aren't going to be relevant until said item can actually be used for a board though; i.e. Relic Edge.


Relics Edges are used for CDs. So they are relevant right now... though they will later be used for Psycho wands aswell.

[ZodiacNKnight]

The economy is getting better since the hacking/dupeing crisis was dealt with back in January.
Ray-photons use to be bought around 200K a piece, now they're typically acceptable around 50K.
Our economy (PS2/PC) will probably not fully recover to the extent of the JP servers simply because of conservative game behavior.
The only sinks for the inflation is NPC stores and that’s all. As long as players trade the millions of mesta around in the player market the economy will not get better. The mesta will just circulate around until it gets used for scapes, mates, and other NPC products.


If you're new and don't know the player market very well then you need to take some time and get around. If you want to know a specific price for an item look at what other people are selling it for. The more shops you visit the better you can predict the price range on the player market. Yes the inflation is bad and people who don't understand the value of the item can really get robbed.
Just the other day I bought a Gaozoran Rod (Material) for just 200K because the guy selling it was new and just didn't know what he was doing...

Make sure you know the value of the item before just guessing a price for it. Too high won't sell it and too low will cut your profit potential.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ZodiacNKnight on 2007-05-01 10:42 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ZodiacNKnight on 2007-05-01 10:44 ]</font>

[Dublio]

So the 6 mil I spent synthing 30 weapons everyday is helping the economy? Awesome! Note to self: Synthing is a possible money hole, but well worth it.

[ZodiacNKnight]

On 2007-05-01 10:43, Dublio wrote:
So the 6 mil I spent synthing 30 weapons everyday is helping the economy? Awesome! Note to self: Synthing is a possible money hole, but well worth it.



Correct, people who are synthesizing weapons for high element percents and buying their materials from NPC stores are actually helping the economy.

This is probably why the inflation has gone down because a lot of people with money would like to get their hands on a 50% elemental weapon. (7* to 9*)

Careful though,
if the inflation drastically goes down the value of 50% weapons will essentially also go down... (Mesta Wise)
50% elements won't be going for 90 or 50 million anymore if the decreasing rate continues. Probably by Summer and into Fall there will be a significant difference.
My recommendation would be just to hold onto the 40%-50% weapons for its trading value. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ZodiacNKnight on 2007-05-01 11:04 ]</font>

[VanHalen]

Am I the only person who feels bad about overcharging?

[Mystil]

Nope. You think I like selling stuff for 50x than what it's really worth?

thing about it is, if you sell it at it's true worth, people who need it cheaply will not be the ones who buy it, but the people who will buy it out and sell it for higher.

You can't win. You have to overcharge.

On 2007-05-01 09:35, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Just rake in the meseta. While the economy is to some extent, dead, it forces you to evolve with the new gameplay that grew from it. That requires you to have a hefty amount of meseta, since people are going to whine at you for not having up to date equipment and scapes and all that jazz. And in the long run, gimp you compared to the average player.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-05-01 09:35 ]</font>


I've never seen that happen, but since it came from you, it's hard to not believe.

1 problem with the economy.

Have fun looking for weapons you WANT. Man I'm glad I'm not a fortefighter anymore.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-05-01 15:35 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

On 2007-05-01 10:00, Kaydin wrote:
Search other player's shops, and price yours about the same.


I wish that worked. I've seen incredible jumps in prices that make an average estimation near impossible to find.

[Rashiid]

On 2007-05-01 15:07, VanHalen wrote:
Am I the only person who feels bad about overcharging?



i do. i sell everything 50% of what everyone else does. like, no lie, like they say in shops.

[ljkkjlcm9]

funny part is, new people are joining, old people are leaving, people are spending money at the NPC like mad... meseta is dissapearing people. More new players with none, less old players with a bunch. The only problem is, those with a lot, have a whole lot.

THE JACKEL

[Dublio]

Awesome, now I just need to make some 50% lol. Another thing though, most people hate dark. Do people synth dark weapons cause lack of photons? That would be the only problem I think if you have to synth 30 or so weapons a day. That would suck to make a 50% dark weapon and no one will trade or buy it from you.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dublio on 2007-05-01 16:52 ]</font>

[Kaydin]

On 2007-05-01 15:46, Dublio wrote:
Awesome, now I just need to make some 50% lol. Another thing though, most people hate dark. Do people synth dark weapons cause lack of photons? That would be the only problem I think if you have to synth 30 or so weapons a day. It kinda sucks to make a 50% dark weapon and no one will trade or buy it from you.There aren't that many Light enemies, so no one really wants Dark.
Most popular is Light and Ice.

[TorterraEndor]

Or earth

[VanHalen]

On 2007-05-01 15:37, Rashiid wrote:

On 2007-05-01 15:07, VanHalen wrote:
Am I the only person who feels bad about overcharging?



i do. i sell everything 50% of what everyone else does. like, no lie, like they say in shops.



Same here. I seen a store have the nerve to say "KUBARA WOOD 90K CHEAPEST PRICE AROUND!"

Funny, kubara wood for me sells for 800-5K >.>
Also those 10 star materials I sell for the same price. I'd hate to have someone spend 35mil just for a failed synth rate. That might have some bad affect and come back to me.

[Mystil]

I sold the wood for 3,000ea(which is pretty realistic). 10 stars usually 100k-200k. Now those cost high because the price is based on star value alone. XD

[VanHalen]

Yeah I noticed that. Whatever comes up in orange letters people then think "Oh boy I'm gonna make a mil of this Kerseline!"

[Cz]

i only sell stuffs that i want to get rid of. I dont over charge nor overprice. Selling my 9* weapons for 60k-200k and that is the max. I will set the price to 99,999,999 only as storage purposes.

P.S. Damascus....is that you Sage? - from Sheena.

[Golto]

I'd keep those dark weapons because once we get Sleeping Warriors S2 the the demand for them will be increased.

[Kinako78]

No wonder my Megi-photons never sell...

And I try not to overcharge, either. I'll sell elemental photons for 10k each, except I'll probably lower my Megi-photons to about 5k, at most. Is that too high?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kinako78 on 2007-05-01 16:49 ]</font>

[VanHalen]

On 2007-05-01 16:45, Kinako78 wrote:
No wonder my Megi-photons never sell...

And I try not to overcharge, either. I'll sell elemental photons for 10k each, except I'll probably lower my Megi-photons to about 5k, at most. Is that too high?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kinako78 on 2007-05-01 16:49 ]</font>


For us, no. Funny story, I try to sell all my photons for 400 meseta. I had 23 megi-photons left in my shop for two weeks before someone bought them.

[Mystil]

I have megi-photons(about 99 I think) sitting in my shop collecting dust. And 92 Im-photons.

On 2007-05-01 16:17, Golto wrote:
I'd keep those dark weapons because once we get Sleeping Warriors S2 the the demand for them will be increased.



Oh that's right...all the "forgotten" missions still don't have S2's yet.

[Golto]

I had to put Megi-photons for 2k each to get them to sell.

Mystil well this is one forgotten mission that will be rediscovered because of the srank drops like the two 10* longsword boards and Psycho Wand board in S2.

[Kinako78]

I'll try selling them at 5k for now and if they're not sold in, say, a week, I'll lower them to 2k.

[Kimil]

On 2007-05-01 15:41, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
funny part is, new people are joining, old people are leaving, people are spending money at the NPC like mad... meseta is dissapearing people. More new players with none, less old players with a bunch. The only problem is, those with a lot, have a whole lot.

THE JACKEL



Liiiiiiiiike, you ? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Do you EVER spend money? lol, or has it gone down?

[DAMASCUS]

On 2007-05-01 16:16, BunnyGirl wrote:
i only sell stuffs that i want to get rid of. I dont over charge nor overprice. Selling my 9* weapons for 60k-200k and that is the max. I will set the price to 99,999,999 only as storage purposes.

P.S. Damascus....is that you Sage? - from Sheena.



I am a PSO veteran but I am not Sage n_n' sry

[Cz]

On 2007-05-01 22:50, DAMASCUS wrote:


I am a PSO veteran but I am not Sage n_n' sry



aw..ok. I mistook you for a friend of mine that used to go by the name Damascus. Terrible sorry...lol.

[PMB960]

On 2007-05-01 09:35, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Just rake in the meseta. While the economy is to some extent, dead, it forces you to evolve with the new gameplay that grew from it. That requires you to have a hefty amount of meseta, since people are going to whine at you for not having up to date equipment and scapes and all that jazz. And in the long run, gimp you compared to the average player.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-05-01 09:35 ]</font>


Absolutely and completely untrue. I have sold things at X360 prices throughout the entire time that people were hacking meseta. I don't think my character is in any way shape or form gimp compared to the others I play with. So what if I don't have 6 of 1 weapon type you don't ever need that many anyways. Also the difference between equipment isn't that big a deal. The difference between 7* and 9* weapons is very small. You MIGHT need 1 more hit with a 7* weapon. 1 high % 7* armor is worth far more than 5 low % 9* armors since the extra couple of points you gain will lower damage MAYBE 5-10 points. No one ever whined that I had crappy equipment. In fact almost no one noticed unless I pointed it out and even then its not like they cared. Player skill counts for far more than good equipment and can more than make up the difference.

[HerdsmanOfYrr]

I have enough money that i took and spent almost 3 mil...mostly at NPC's refitting my char three times, once as a ranger then again as a force and a third time to be a protranser. now that the PT level is higher i have spent a little more...it was a good way to get rid of the extra money. I think though the reason the economy has died is the lack of new items being sent into the economy. everyone is perched at crimson so they are all getting dozens of the same rares which they try to sell but so is everyone else. there isnt variety. that why the market died.

[Mystil]

On 2007-05-01 23:17, PMB960 wrote:

On 2007-05-01 09:35, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Just rake in the meseta. While the economy is to some extent, dead, it forces you to evolve with the new gameplay that grew from it. That requires you to have a hefty amount of meseta, since people are going to whine at you for not having up to date equipment and scapes and all that jazz. And in the long run, gimp you compared to the average player.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2007-05-01 09:35 ]</font>


Absolutely and completely untrue. I have sold things at X360 prices throughout the entire time that people were hacking meseta. I don't think my character is in any way shape or form gimp compared to the others I play with. So what if I don't have 6 of 1 weapon type you don't ever need that many anyways. Also the difference between equipment isn't that big a deal. The difference between 7* and 9* weapons is very small. You MIGHT need 1 more hit with a 7* weapon. 1 high % 7* armor is worth far more than 5 low % 9* armors since the extra couple of points you gain will lower damage MAYBE 5-10 points. No one ever whined that I had crappy equipment. In fact almost no one noticed unless I pointed it out and even then its not like they cared. Player skill counts for far more than good equipment and can more than make up the difference.



That only applies to weapon usage. Player skill will not save you if you have gimp armor on. Gi-senba wont do anything against buffed Olgamons in Eastern Peril S2 for example, but a Crismon Line with ice will.

'Player skill' is an excuse to try not to be better equipped. "I'm awesome, I don't need this or that" It's a copout.

[ChaotistRazor]

"Ruined" economy, give me a break. It's inflated, this isn't new information. All that nifty meseta that grew on trees a few months back is drying up, and it's only gonna get more and more slim with the release of Grinder A boards.

People don't have the money to piss away on 99,999,999 synth materials and 50k photons anymore. Times are a-changin' - get used to it.

[Nuclearranger]

I closed my shop once meseta duping was out. I dont feel gimped playing only on mission money alone. Me and a group of my closest online buddys are all textbook legit*

[SarinSerafi]

On 2007-05-01 15:30, Mystil wrote:
Nope. You think I like selling stuff for 50x than what it's really worth?

thing about it is, if you sell it at it's true worth, people who need it cheaply will not be the ones who buy it, but the people who will buy it out and sell it for higher.

You can't win. You have to overcharge.


If there's any kind of person I can't stand in this game, it's people who buy photons (or other in demand items) that are priced at their true value, and resell them for 10-20x or more in their own shop as their primary source of income. It's shady and disgusting. I've already marked some people for doing that, and made it a note to NEVER shop from them or their alts.

I'm a synther (100 pure Striking, Armor and Tech, working on Range). I make weapons since I'm a Fortefighter main. Money's tight, but I can still afford to synth about 10 weapons a day (unlike some people with 30+ or even 60+ daily because they have 2 striking PM's). Most of them are - naturally - earth and ice, though I am also trying to make some electric and dark weapons. I buy the other ingredients from the NPC or collect them from drops. I simply cannot afford even 20k per photon, because I have to count in all the failures (monomates, etc) and the lower percentages go up in my shop for cheap.

Sadly, I'm not fast enough to catch the shopkeepers who are selling their photons at fair prices, and instead are beaten by the scum I mentioned above. >_<

If you're a shopkeeper who feels forced to sell photons high to prevent people who resell your stuff, I'd love to do business with you. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif You supply me photons at the usual fair price you'd normally sell them, and I'll be your constant, honest customer who will guarantee you that income.

Now if only the A grinder boards will get released, that will eliminate a LOT of the excess hacked meseta floating around a lot faster.

[Sekani]

If what I'm reading in this thread is about average for your servers, you guys are pretty close to us on weapon and armor prices right now anyway.

And I hope the guy who posted earlier wasn't seriously expecting everyone to have a Crimson Line. It would take a non 24/7 player close to a month to be able to afford one of those (with decent percents they sell for over 3 million here).

[Kinako78]

SarinSerafi, I still have photons for sale in Kinako's shop for 10k each, except for megi photons, which I plan to lower to 5k. If that's still too high, I can negotiate.

[PMB960]

On 2007-05-02 05:25, Mystil wrote:

That only applies to weapon usage. Player skill will not save you if you have gimp armor on. Gi-senba wont do anything against buffed Olgamons in Eastern Peril S2 for example, but a Crismon Line with ice will.

'Player skill' is an excuse to try not to be better equipped. "I'm awesome, I don't need this or that" It's a copout.



First off I am not comparing a 5* non element to a 9* with a high element plus I do have a Crimson Line its just that none of my chars can use it yet. I am comparing between a 7* and a 9* with almost equal elements. My equipment quality isn't any worse than anyone elses its just instead of having 6 Nightwalkers I have 1 or instead of a Crimson Line for each element I have 1. Even if I had tons of meseta I wouldn't really want tons of 1 type of weapon anyways. Second armor is only useful when you get hit. The key is to try to get hit as little as possible. I (mostly) play as a force anyways so you try to get hit as little as possible and when you know you are going to get hit hard you get Resta out and heal immediately. I also don't charge in head first at buffed Olgohmon I will run around and try and get behind them (this is where Tornado Dance is really useful) or as my force attack with long range techs like Foie or Rafoie instead of Gifoie or Damfoie. Again I sell my stuff at X360 prices and have roughly the same equipment an X360 player at my level would have. Does that mean that all X360 players are gimped? If all X360 players are gimped how can they even play the game? Most of them seem to be doing just fine.

[Schubalts]

I'm still wondering how you can "overcharge" for an item that can not be bought from an NPC, and therefore has no set price...

[Davot]

kinako thats over selling a bit 5k for a photon jesus 10k is outrageous. just stock up ray and di photons for one giant sale sell them cheaper then 5k tho.

[PMB960]

On 2007-05-02 08:47, Schubalts wrote:
I'm still wondering how you can "overcharge" for an item that can not be bought from an NPC, and therefore has no set price...



Because items should be priced for how hard they are to obtain. Selling an item you can get in under 10 seconds for over 10K is overcharging since the time spent to get the item does not justify the price. In order to earn that 10K you would need to do EP S2 once which takes 15-20min. You should be able to get 5-10 photons in less than 20 min so the price/rarity ratio is way out of proportion.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-05-02 06:48, Sekani wrote:
If what I'm reading in this thread is about average for your servers, you guys are pretty close to us on weapon and armor prices right now anyway.

And I hope the guy who posted earlier wasn't seriously expecting everyone to have a Crimson Line. It would take a non 24/7 player close to a month to be able to afford one of those (with decent percents they sell for over 3 million here).



At my availability, it takes more than a month to make 300K. True story.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-05-02 10:39, PMB960 wrote:

On 2007-05-02 08:47, Schubalts wrote:
I'm still wondering how you can "overcharge" for an item that can not be bought from an NPC, and therefore has no set price...



Because items should be priced for how hard they are to obtain. Selling an item you can get in under 10 seconds for over 10K is overcharging since the time spent to get the item does not justify the price. In order to earn that 10K you would need to do EP S2 once which takes 15-20min. You should be able to get 5-10 photons in less than 20 min so the price/rarity ratio is way out of proportion.



True. Now on the 360 servers, people sell a Giga Bullet/PP save at about 8 Million. Now I'd be really surprised if someone (who puts a regular effort to hunt for it) makes 1/4th that money before one does indeed drop for them. It's even an S-rank capable drop.

[Golto]

With the current s2 missions you can make 50k an hour pretty easily. So in around 9 hours you could afford a 9* armor board and the materials for one synth. I guess if you only play 1 hour a day it would take a week or more but for most people that would be 3 days or so.

[Akaimizu]

I can play about 4 hours a day. Most parties take about a half hour to 40 minutes to run 1 single S2 mission, realistically.

Now realistically, I may be able to devote 4 days a week to do so. That's maybe 16-20 hours a week. So I might be getting something closer to 20-30 an hour, giving averages. Now that means I would possibly make about 400 in a week, and that's if and only if I run S2s and can do that from the exact minute I sign on, until the minute I sign off.

And the fact I have to constantly run them the whole entire time. And what are those realistic chances that I'll be doing that????

Now let's say I do that to get a single 9* armor board and a chance for 1 synth. And what are my chances again for a successful one? That's putting a lot of hope and luck into a brain-wracking grind session (which you come home to) that totally sucks anythin remotely fun out of this game.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-05-02 11:38 ]</font>

[trunkszero]

i sell photons, usually 5k for gra and megi, the others under 5k my psu name is the same as my psow user name

[Golto]

I guess I just play with better players most of the time then. Crimson Beast S2 usually takes 17-22 mins. I usually play less than 2 hours in a row too.
Yes the synth % success for 9* armor with elements is rather low so it will probaly take you all 3 tires to get one success. Plus 16 hours wait timefor each synth.


I still have 3 Crimson Line 10% fire in my shop collecting dust at 300k each. If/when they ever sell 9* armors in npcs they will sell for 520k.

[Neoptolemus]

What bothers me most is the amount of people selling items that are obtainable in NPC shops for 10x - 100x the NPC price. The majority of basic synth. materials are available at NPC, but people will still put over a million for things like a Par Ebon. Are there people stupid enough to buy these at this price? And what's the deal with putting room decoration boards that are only a few thousand in shops for several million? Again, do people fall for this. I used to hunt around player shops for materials, but have since found it to be a complete waste of time. I now NPC every material that I can, because odds are that I'd end up just wasting an hour hunting player shops for cheaper prices.

It was just last night that we had a conversation about stuff in shops not selling, because there is less meseta out there. People will start adjusting their prices down in time (I hope). I felt horrible about overpricing items, so I closed up shop. Now most of the time I just stash my finds away. I often give away my synth. materials and other items to the needy players that I play with. I prefer to trade items instead of selling them. Why reward the rich by putting them in my shop for a few cool million, when someone else (usually a newer, lower level player) can get great satisfaction out of it.

I finally got to the point that I was content (for the most part) with what I had, so the only money I spent was on Scape Dolls and Photon Charges. But now, I started thinking about getting a new armor and trying new weapons (shotguns rock, btw). I spent way too much of my hard earned money last night buying up materials to make a Fire based Crimson Line -- and the 31% success rate is a killer. I am officially broke now (50k left to my name), and will probably be forced to open up shop and sell at inflated prices. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Kinako78]

On 2007-05-02 09:11, Davot wrote:
kinako thats over selling a bit 5k for a photon jesus 10k is outrageous. just stock up ray and di photons for one giant sale sell them cheaper then 5k tho.



Well, that's why I asked in the first place, because I don't want to overcharge, so spare me the attitude, please.

And how much cheaper then 5,000 should they be?

[Skyly]

PS2/PC Severs Are Shot To Sh**
Xbox 360 Severs Are Doing Quit Nicely.
I Have Yet To See Anyone With Over 2 Million (Well On Them @ The Time)
There Is Over Pricing With Weapons And Armors Though. Sad But True.
It's Mostly On Armor.!! And It Pisses Me Off.
Synth Your Own Weapons Honestly
But Armor @ NPC.

[Thrash777]

I've seen someone carry 9mil on them... only cos they sold EVERYTHING on their Lv80 charater so he could kit out his alt.char that he plays more now.

[DAMASCUS]

I guess the only thing I can do is just be a responsible shop owner and sell rares at reasonable prices or at least an estimate based on how much play/meseta time it would take to obtain it. Inflated prices would be stupid since I would only be selling to rich players. Players can still take advantage of lower prices but I'll just hope that some legitimate people will take advantage of my prices first http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif