Here is why Forces don't like buffing.

[Mystil]

Stop running away from me when I'm trying to MAKE YOU STRONGER.

READ:

SHIFTA = You + monster = Monster scared
DEBAND = You > Truck > Bus > tank > Fort Knox
ZODIAL = You > Professional Snipers
Retial = Well only forces need these

Got damn! I lost my freaking temper in a game today over that. Boy she was DETERMINED to not get buffed too so I said fuck it and just buffed whoever was willing to stand next to me and become a mini god, which ended up being 5 of the 6 in the party.

Just what is the problem? It's only a few seconds and I'm not have ass buffing you either. If you don't wont it, OK you wont get it. But don't start barking at me when you've gone long periods without.

Stop running from power >_>.

[Banish]

Umm, Forces don't really need Shifta, unless they're a hand-to-hand combat ones.

But I get what you're saying about power.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fujita on 2007-05-01 15:24 ]</font>

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-05-01 15:21, Mystil wrote:
Stop running from power >_>.XD

[VanHalen]

Actually Retier benefits everyone since it boost MST defense too.

I like the deband line that reminds me of this football coach I had at my school who said to my friend and I, "IF A TRUCK IS COMMING AT YOU AT 90MPH AND YOU RUN WITH ALL YOUR HEART WHO'S GONNA STOP FIRST?"

Obiviously me >.>

[Zorafim]

Just the same, if you're going to buff, please tell me beforehand. A small macro won't hurt, but don't do it when I'm on the other side of the map and start buffing a few seconds afterwards.
I like giving you skill ups. I really do. I don't at all mind the fact that I can kick more ass than usual, either. Just, tell me a few seconds beforehand, would you?

[EphekZ]

I have, or had(taking a break), the same problem. I do put out a macro and then stop running. I wait 2 seconds if they keep running then I start without them. since i'm WT I'm really only buffing for myself they're just lucky enough I buff them too. I really hate it when I put out the macro the tard keeps running and then after I'm done he runs back and expects me to take out my wands again and waste PP. which I don't since it's his fault the idiot can't read and I could care less about the next player.

to summarize: don't chase them. you're helping them they should have to courtesy to stop. if they miss em simply say "be ready next time" or something along those lines.

[Sayara]

I guess all these years (pso too) I've been doing this all wrong then.

[Nai_Calus]

Yes, for the love of all that is holy, it won't kill you to wait five freaking seconds while I cast buffs on you. At least hold still long enough for half of them.

Now, you HU/RAs say to 'warn you', but if it just wore off and we're between waves I really shouldn't have to warn you. Remember two rooms ago when it wore off mid-room and I chased you and everybody else down in the middle of the monsters to renew it? Yeah, that means I buff. It wore off and we're not fighting? Stand by a doorway for a second and as soon as I'm there, if I'm not there already, voila, you shall receive my blessings. I enjoy supporting when you don't make it impossible, really, I do. I will chase you and everyone else down if I have to, I'd just appreciate it if I didn't have to every single time.

Seriously, though, how hard is it to wait a second for buffs when they wear off? >_< If I did them in the first place, chances are I'll keep doing them. If for no other reason than that Deband and Retier help me out and doing Shifta and Zodial with them keeps them levelling evenly. XP

[SStrikerR]

yea that pisses me off too, like, in crimson beast with my noob C rank mish player, i tell the lv 5 noobz, after the third key comes down lemme buff so i dont have to run ragged healing when the gol dova kicks your ass. what do they do? pick up the key, get killed

[Mystil]

I do have a macro..I need to use it more. Sometimes I position myself so that the range catchs everyone(lvl21+ buffs for the win) but it's not always possible.

On 2007-05-01 21:13, Tingle wrote:
I guess all these years (pso too) I've been doing this all wrong then.



What?

[amtalx]

This is why I like to be leader when I'm using my Force. I tell everyone what the deal is and that repeat offenders will find themselves with a one-way ticket to the lobby.

[Sayara]

On 2007-05-02 05:19, Mystil wrote:
I do have a macro..I need to use it more. Sometimes I position myself so that the range catchs everyone(lvl21+ buffs for the win) but it's not always possible.

On 2007-05-01 21:13, Tingle wrote:
I guess all these years (pso too) I've been doing this all wrong then.



What?


I'd actually run and catch everyone with my buffing. Though GT buffs leave much to be desired.

[Mystil]

Oh hell running to catch people is a pain even with max buff range ; ;.

[VanHalen]

Wait until lvl 50 support comes out(Or maybe I'm just confused I could've sworn I heard about lvl 50 support techs somewhere on here). You can probably buff the whole block even if they are 5 rooms ahead of you XD.

[Mystil]

^lvl50 support is for Acrotechers only. I'm staying Fortetecher http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif.

[SStrikerR]

just wait for acrotechers.

[Akaimizu]

This actually happened the exact same way in PSO. In PSO, we made little Macro Icon stuff to help deal with people who never could stand still. In PSO, the hunters were the biggest offenders as too many of them run through the level like a marathon and don't stop.

Voice chat, in the later version, did help a bit. Originally, it was a bit of a chore to chase people down AND communicate at the same time.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-05-03 10:59 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

Actually in PSO I never had any trouble slapping S/D on people.

Then again I usually ran with people intelligent enough to know damn well that I did it who'd wait for me in doorways for their S/D goodness, but even mid-room or with n00bs it was easier. Casting S/D barehanded with a FOmar was a lot faster than even wands in PSU are, and didn't require switching to a weapon and waiting for the server to realise this. Mind you, male barehanded casting was one of the faster tech animations in the game, the quick menu made accessing Shifta and Deband nearly instantaneous even without shortcutting them, and FOmars had 2x range to S/D as well. XD; Even when I meleed with my FOmar, though, and used weapons with slow casting animations like Double Sabers and Partisans, it still felt easier.

Of course back then it wasn't as bad spamming buff/debuffs. FOmars weren't masters of having TP and techs weren't really any cheaper, but Trifluids were comparatively cheap(Yeah, they were a lot more expensive than Photon Charges are, but money was easier to get in PSO by a long shot, so it was like buying monomates for cheapness), would often just go ahead and drop in the middle of the run, and should you run out you still had Difluids to go through and Pioneer 2 was a quick Ryuker away and your teammates probably needed to go sell stuff anyway. Now it's too much of a hassle to run back to the city/mid lobby and people are too obessed with getting through things as fast as possible.

There's an Acrotecher in my future, oh yes, let's hope that with L50 techs you might have a chance of actually buffing people. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Hey, maybe L50 debuffs will actually be useful.

Either way, I've found trying to support people in this game to be a pain in the ass. Nobody seems to want it. XD;

At least I've seen a glorious trend towards people realizing that the Force isn't always right on top of them and chomping mates if they're about to die. That's great. If they use a Dimate and recover enough health to not immediately die that gives me time to get to them and heal them the rest of the way.

[Mystil]

S/D lvl30 was ovvvverkill on the range. I do miss it a lot. But I miss the godly resta range even more.

[Akaimizu]

Yeah, the end game of everything Force was Godly in PSO. It's the build up towards it, that has you running after people. And the fact that you had to wait until you found Technique Levels available to buy or on the field. Ahh, the days when you had a level in a certain Tech, and all you keep seeing are the lower ones. There was a little bit of luck, in those days, as to how early you got high-level techs.

Of course, back then, Forces also had *The nuke* button that was things like high-level Rafoie. Used incorrectly, it could anger a whole party, though. Want a room of anything instantly blown up? Push that button. Boom!!!!

[Nai_Calus]

Uh, speaking as someone who played a Force, I can guarantee you that unless you were L140-something and playing on Normal, Rafoie wasn't going to make anything instantly blow up. XD

Tech damage sucked ass on PSO online. That's why all the FOmars went melee. We could do damage that way. >_<

[Mystil]

On 2007-05-04 10:28, Akaimizu wrote:
Yeah, the end game of everything Force was Godly in PSO. It's the build up towards it, that has you running after people. And the fact that you had to wait until you found Technique Levels available to buy or on the field. Ahh, the days when you had a level in a certain Tech, and all you keep seeing are the lower ones. There was a little bit of luck, in those days, as to how early you got high-level techs.

Of course, back then, Forces also had *The nuke* button that was things like high-level Rafoie. Used incorrectly, it could anger a whole party, though. Want a room of anything instantly blown up? Push that button. Boom!!!!



That's not what made them mad.

Do you know that tech damage(as well as J/Z, which makes no sense) cancels out melee damage? Spamming rafoie pretty much renders the hunters and rangers useless. It wont blow everything up but it will make things slower http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif, especially if you're not a FOnewm, the only character that can do damage with RA techs.

[SStrikerR]

On 2007-05-01 15:21, Mystil wrote:
Stop running away from me when I'm trying to MAKE YOU STRONGER.

READ:

SHIFTA = You + monster = Monster scared
DEBAND = You > Truck > Bus > tank > Fort Knox
ZODIAL = You > Professional Snipers
Retial = Well only forces need these

Got damn! I lost my freaking temper in a game today over that. Boy she was DETERMINED to not get buffed too so I said fuck it and just buffed whoever was willing to stand next to me and become a mini god, which ended up being 5 of the 6 in the party.

Just what is the problem? It's only a few seconds and I'm not have ass buffing you either. If you don't wont it, OK you wont get it. But don't start barking at me when you've gone long periods without.

Stop running from power >_>.

umm with the deband thing....you put fort knox as the weakest.im not sure if thats a funny or a mistke, but ok...

[Palefire]

On 2007-05-01 21:41, Ian-KunX wrote:
Yes, for the love of all that is holy, it won't kill you to wait five freaking seconds while I cast buffs on you. At least hold still long enough for half of them.

Now, you HU/RAs say to 'warn you', but if it just wore off and we're between waves I really shouldn't have to warn you. Remember two rooms ago when it wore off mid-room and I chased you and everybody else down in the middle of the monsters to renew it? Yeah, that means I buff. It wore off and we're not fighting? Stand by a doorway for a second and as soon as I'm there, if I'm not there already, voila, you shall receive my blessings. I enjoy supporting when you don't make it impossible, really, I do. I will chase you and everyone else down if I have to, I'd just appreciate it if I didn't have to every single time.

Seriously, though, how hard is it to wait a second for buffs when they wear off? >_< If I did them in the first place, chances are I'll keep doing them. If for no other reason than that Deband and Retier help me out and doing Shifta and Zodial with them keeps them levelling evenly. XP

Word. This annoys me greatly. Is it that these types of Hunters can only focus on either their SEs or their health bars but not both? It's just common sense to pull back once buffs wear off to get a rebuff, and it isn't the job of FOs to blow Scape Dolls just to chase down every idiot not paying attention to his status.

OTOH, when I play Hunters, I'll usually stick close to the FOs anyway because I end up meat-shielding them from the joys of Megid. (Seeing how any character I have who has any kind of TECHNICs at all never fails to get flattened by it) Another common sense tactic, IMO: when the FOs go, everyone is hosed.

[Eleina]

Ppl running away = no buffs for them

[MSAksion]

At the Beginning or the end of a block i throw up a clever Macro stating my BUFF Intentions. Usually people will take a short break and wait the whole 8 seconds i takes to cast all four buffs. And trust me - the next room has a whole MESS of Megid throwin Jabras - every bit of MST will help you save $5000 Meseta.

If I see a CAST suddenly summon an SUV randomly in the middle of a mission - Yeah SURE i'll rush over and buff him too.! His SUV will keep me safe while I buff him. I wish i could do that for Beasts who i must wait till his Nanobeast is over. For a CAST you can start RE-buffing him as soon as his arms are raised.

I buff when i want because I want. I don't NEED to I WANT to. And if you run away from me then you get no buffs.

Okay okay somehow I'll catch up to you and Lasso you in with a Buff up or Four. In between Heavy Nuking of course.

GunTECHER magic is only 10 so when i'm GT i usually only use the Red and Yellow on MYSELF. Others in range great they get some power too. I can't wait for the expansion - since Guntecher ATTACK magic isn't that great the only real magic i can do is the BUFFS - currently only 10 will be 30 ^_^

[DonRoyale]

I found the cure for this.

Buff once a block, and only say you're gonna buff once. Buff who stops and nobody else.

If they whine, tell them to pull their heads out of their asses >.>

[Mystil]

I like the ones who don't trust me and use trides >_> jk. I can't blame them though, there's quite a few who don't do the support side of FT at all.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-05-04 22:51, Ian-KunX wrote:
Uh, speaking as someone who played a Force, I can guarantee you that unless you were L140-something and playing on Normal, Rafoie wasn't going to make anything instantly blow up. XD

Tech damage sucked ass on PSO online. That's why all the FOmars went melee. We could do damage that way. >_<



It was basically end-game stuff. Various iterations of the game actually had different levels. On the Dreamcast, you didn't have to be that high to quickly kill with Rafoie. Eventually, when you got to Episode 1 and 2, you had to be even higher than that. Still, in both cases, they were very late in the game. Then again, I was FOnewm if that makes any difference. I did clock well many hours as one, though it's tricky to count when you play across various versions of the game.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-05-22 09:47 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

FOnewm has a 30% boost to Ra-series techs and the second highest MST in the game. XP FOnewms are better nukers than FOmars, hands down, and eventually do get to a point where it's vaguely viable. Eventually.

FOmars on the other hand, have a Gi-tech boost(Grants too, but Grants is too slow to be really useful), and significantly lower MST. In fact, I once calculated it out, and a FOmar will *always*, assuming the FOmar can hit, be better off using melee attacks because online enemies have such ludicrous tech resistance. Even at L200 and max stats, the FOmar still does more damage with melee. FOmarl'd end up about the same.

There was a huge balance issue there. Newman Forces eventually could do vaguely reasonable damage, but it was *never* efficient for a human one to use techs, especially not if said human FO wanted to solo - While you might get beaten around depending on your level/equip, you were much better off using your TP for S/D/J/Z and Resta than you were trying to use it for attack techs. Burning through your entire stock of Trifluids and your Difluids within a few rooms, and recall that techs basically didn't miss in PSO because of the autotargetting, so there was no real waste there... Yeah, it was fucking retarded. I was a Force, and yet I couldn't realistically hope to act as one and do damage. A FOmar's damage techs were limited to tactical uses - Rabarta to try to freeze things, Rafoie or Gizonde to knock down flyers. I was better off with my Soul Banish and S-Rank Partisan, even with the FOmar's abysmal ATA. DX

And from what I've heard, EpI&II was *better* with tech damage for Forces than the DC versions, so it was actually lower and less painful a journey until you could vaguely do something.

You'd have thought more people would have been decent supporters, then, though, what with all the melee Forces on I&II. Since S/D/J/Z were so vital to your performance... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif Support became even more brainless once I had the stats and the equip to go melee. I was doing it anyway. S/D as soon as it wore off, J/Z on every wave... I'd been doing it already, but it made it even more reflexive. Add that to my compulsive Resta habits... (I will chase someone down to heal less than an eighth of their health bar. XD;;; )

Though I admit to being lazy in PSU, at least at the lower levels my characters are at. Debuffs just aren't worth the time it takes to cast them yet, even at L11. In a team it all dies too fast and soloing in the time it took to cast the damned things I could have been killing things and probably had everything half killed or completely killed, at least with Elly... And back when she couldn't wipe out an entire wave with just a few Gizondes or some Dambarta, the damned debuffs didn't even last through the wave. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif They still don't if I do B-rank. And still don't help enough to make it worth it. Ah well. Support techs in PSO weren't worth fuck-all until you got to Ult and had L15+ and stuff was actually worth debuffing. (An online Ult Delbiter has over 3000 ATP. Even a HUmar's L15 Jellen handily rapes that. A FO's L30...) Still, annoying, since I already wouldn't dream of going out without at least Retier with my FOs... Ah well. When the time comes, I'll start using 'em. I suppose I should sit down and get them to L20 at some point on Elly so that when she switches to fT someday it won't take long to get them to 21. I keep up all four buffs even when I'm soloing, though, heh. Shifta isn't doing me much good, but it keeps them all levelling evenly.

[opaopajr]

it really depends what party you sport. i generally haunted PSO v2 before i pretty much retired and you could comfortably fight with nuking. there were no race % buffs, race benefits, or tech % buff items, unlike PSO ver 1&2. yeah, there was a metric assload of HP to burn through though.

but the nice thing about nuking was it was set damage and area effect. basically i got many of my forces (i had/have a working circuit of around 6 of them -- 2 for each class) to comfortably run solos through ultimate just by nuking. as long as you got HP bloat and a vicious TP mag you're good to go. used to have my FOnewm/marl run Caves Bakery quest on ultimate for the extra enemies as an easy EXP run. you just had to figure out who was weak against what tech. only a mere handful of enemies were resistant to all techs to where melee was the only real answer.

i did melee as well, but i'd switch up a mag and gear to focus on that. i did have that advantage where you can suck down as much material as you want, unlike PSO v. 1&2. but really, the only material that really mattered was HP material. if you had resta and could survive a fixed damage hit from the boss there was no real way to lose, unless you were unprepared. in the end the speed thing kinda evened out. in one you could kill 1 or 2 monsters real fast, but with nuking you could clear out a whole wave. but then you had to refill, whereas melee could keep on going.

having a party of nukers was fun on PSO v2 DC. even if the techs were close in time they still registered their damage, unlike tech v physical. that saved considerable time and TP. 4 nukers could run through several sections in ult quite comfortably. it just required capable players who knew which tech to spam on which enemy. so really, the biggest problem came to finding capable players -- which online is always a challenge.

a quick example, Ob Lilies were never a real problem for my forces in the Ult Caves, especially those rooms where there were 4-8 spawned at once. spam the right tech and voila' all gone after around 8 attacks. each tech blast did interrupt so no megid was cast at all. i couldn't get that sort of efficiency from my hunters or rangers when i ran Ult solo.

but when you run in a party there's different dynamics. some groups work wonderfully with spammed techs. some work better with heal support and range support. others are melee meat grinders with 'heal pods', aka forces. at some point you find yourself compromising for the good of everyone else. well, theoretically you should. many a time you find assholes who can't freakin' play the game capably alone let alone in a group. they either die all over the place or run away orgasmically infatuated with their new 1000 damage item spawning every mob at once so no one can really move. yeah, i'm rather over the shared play experience... too many shit for brains, uncompromising, asshats who don't know how to play as a competent team.

don't mind me, i'm just bitter...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: opaopajr on 2007-05-23 01:17 ]</font>