Cheap enemy moves

[Zorafim]

These are really getting on my nerves. There are moves that leave the target defenseless, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about them. AoE stomps, enemy spells, tornados (these at least you can prevent, but not if there's a team mate that loves those knockbacks), charges, etc.
The fun of fighting is that for every move that the enemy can do, there's a counter move you can do to prevent it or use it to your advantage. That's been implemented into games, making it possible to remain untouched if the user is skilled enough. It's what makes fighting games worth playing, makes puzzle games worth having combat in, and it made PSO an incredible experience.

There are just so many moves in PSU that you can't defend against in any way besides having a scape on you. The only way to defend against single target spells is to not be in front of it, which isn't always an option. Getting hit by just a few of them can be fatal.
Dambarta is always fatal, and there's no way to see it coming in time to counter it. If an enemy uses it, he's currently immune to knockbacks. He also won't give you enough time to stop your PA to run away. You have no choice but to get instantly frozen and most likely die.
Tornados always mean death, no matter who you are. They have an insane atp boost rate, and insane rate of fire. It can be stopped by just not using knockbacks, meaning that the enemy can just up and do whatever he wants.
Digging is also something that pisses alot of people off. Worms can dig whenever they want without any sort of warning, while most attacks take a bit of time to get through. It's like whack-a-mole, except the mole takes twenty hits to take down, and there's ten of them.
Megid was once fun. It really was. You could see it coming, you could prepare for it, and you could protect against it. It kept you on your toes, and if you died from it, it was your fault. Now, due to PA spamming and slow spells, dodging is a bit more difficult to do. What's worse is that megid casters throw it out without a thought. You can't distinguish a megid casting from a harmless spell or motion, meaning that you could just be dodging retier. It has a high rate of incapacitation (unlike when used against enemies), and if that doesn't kill you its pure damage modifier will.
Stomps just annoy the hell out of me. They make the user invincible to knockbacks and the like, and they stop all motion around the user. Not to mention the damage it does. No way to dodge it, either, since it just has an insane range.

It's basically just become an RPG, except you die alot easier and you can't provoke. Dodging is not an option if you're a hunter, and even forces will find that difficult. It's taken away the strategy, making the game more braindead than it has to be.


So yeah, I've been doing Rainbow Beast S2, and died way too much from Barta, that Dambarta thing, and the boss's tornado spin. The worms dried up my PP, as well. And the worst part is, there's nothing I can do to stop any of these things. If I could blame myself and my poor dodging skills, then I wouldn't mind it, but as it stands there's nothing I can do. There's no reason to plow through that many scapes.

[Zorafim]

Schawing? Is that a fruit? Does it taste good?

[Firocket1690]

http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/
Introducing... The scrub.

[Uncle_bob]

So many braindead people here. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

I feel for you, Zorafim. And once you add the absurd lag to the equation..ugh. You're going to get hit by these attacks no matter what you do. It's horribly frustrating, that's why I don't play this game much anymore.

[Banish]

I hate 1 HKO attacks...

[Mwabwetumba]

I can't really relate to your problems, I'm afraid :S
I've come to the conclusion that whenever I face an enemy capable of throwing either dambarta/barta/megid or performing a "tornado", I as a fortefighter has to be on my toes.

Whenever I go up against Jarba's or Kamatoze's,
I switch to a spear and use the normal attacks as they are quick to execute, and Dus Daggas are a great way to escape an imminent dambarta from a Jarba, as it allows you to wheel 180 degrees with the first part and use the second part of the combo to get out of it's range with an inch or so. This is NOT fool-proof though, even less so when taking the lessened casting times on S2 into the mix.
You might be thinking that I'm wasting my damaging potential as a ForteFighter when I'm not making all-out assaults on the enemy, but survival has it's price http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Against Megid-ers, I once again pull out the spear and circle their formation, trying to find a decent opening for, as you know, Deljabans (the most frequent Megid casters in PSU so far) won't cast Megid when you engage them in close combat. The trick is that when you've finally gotten up close with them, do NOT push them away! Just hammer away with Dus Daggas, skipping the third part, or any other weapon whose PA does not send the Deljabans flying away from you, scattering the enemy and thus making their Megidding alot harder to keep an eye on.
Hit them once, hit them twice, continue strafing.

I've never had any serious trouble with "stompers" either.. I just keep an eye out for the signature move they make just before they stomp, and make a run for it.

And finally, against "tornado-ers" I try to strategize with my gang so that I (or any of the other hunters that may be there) will hit the big guy with a knockback and then run away quickly. Then, while he's spinning, I and the rest of team open up with all the firepower we can muster.

...argh, what a post...
Anyway, I may sound like I don't ever die thanks to my written awesome dodging skills, but that is unfortunately not true, as I die frequently as well in all manner of wierd circumstances -.- (Dambarta'd while wearing fire armor being the most common death)

[Neith]

Rainbow Beast S2 Kamatoze Dambarta on a Beast fF is broken.

Hits me pretty hard, and freezes about oh, 99% of the time. Then it recasts Dambarta and kills me. It's not like I can dodge it either, even from behind it still hits me.

Even if you hit the Kamatoze, its Dambarta continues for the full length of the tech, unlike the player's version, which makes it even worse.

[Weeaboolits]

One time I was doing a moatoob mission (I think it was Goliath in the Desert) and I was in a cave fleeing in terror as a Bil De Vear bounded after me for probably two full minutes. x_X
The funny thing is that I wasn't shooting it or anything, and I wasn't the nearest person to it, maybe it was just picking on me for playing HUney.

[DonRoyale]

All those are the reasons I don't like Crimson Beast.

And they'll all be negligble once AoI comes out and Scapes become a thing of the past.

Still, spending 20000+ when you're only getting 5000 a run is a HUGE pain in the ass, and it's downright sickening.

[Shiryuu]

The only thing that's bad is the Kamatoze dambarta. It's annoying that it can still hit all around when it's only supposed to hit front and a bit of the sides. But really though, only buffed up kamatoze dambarta hurts. Normal ones don't have enough TP to do serious damage with a decent (20%+) armor.

Tornado spin can be cancelled (during start up) just by doing another knockback then running away. In most cases, it won't start another spin, but better safe than sorry.

[Soukosa]

On 2007-05-11 21:58, Zorafim wrote:
Dambarta is always fatal, and there's no way to see it coming in time to counter it. If an enemy uses it, he's currently immune to knockbacks. He also won't give you enough time to stop your PA to run away. You have no choice but to get instantly frozen and most likely die.

Don't use PAs constantly? The ice attack that Kamatozes use is believed to not be Dambarta either. There's always ice armor as well as non-yohmei armors that actually have decent MST.



Tornados always mean death, no matter who you are. They have an insane atp boost rate, and insane rate of fire. It can be stopped by just not using knockbacks, meaning that the enemy can just up and do whatever he wants.

Always mean death? Funny, EVP seems to lots of wonders for moves like this since it cancel out the damage while you slowly get pushed away.



Megid was once fun. It really was. You could see it coming, you could prepare for it, and you could protect against it. It kept you on your toes, and if you died from it, it was your fault. Now, due to PA spamming and slow spells, dodging is a bit more difficult to do. What's worse is that megid casters throw it out without a thought. You can't distinguish a megid casting from a harmless spell or motion, meaning that you could just be dodging retier. It has a high rate of incapacitation (unlike when used against enemies), and if that doesn't kill you its pure damage modifier will.

It's your own fault for dying here then. If skills is all of what matters to you in terms of dealing damage than something is quite wrong with your playing style.



Stomps just annoy the hell out of me. They make the user invincible to knockbacks and the like, and they stop all motion around the user. Not to mention the damage it does. No way to dodge it, either, since it just has an insane range.

Again, EVP will block these moves.



Dodging is not an option if you're a hunter, and even forces will find that difficult.

EVP exists for a reason, y'know. EVP can be quite godly.



It's taken away the strategy, making the game more braindead than it has to be.

*looks at how many times you mention PA spamming* That's strategy? Wow... really fooled me there. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif
There's far more to playing a character than using skills non stop and slow techs >.>; If you can't see this than you really lack a sense of strategy and thus you can't be whining about this.



So yeah, I've been doing Rainbow Beast S2, and died way too much from Barta, that Dambarta thing, and the boss's tornado spin.

So you died alot in currently one of the game's hardest missions. Seems logical.



The worms dried up my PP, as well. And the worst part is, there's nothing I can do to stop any of these things.

Again, there's more than just spamming skills. There's also many ways to take down goshins easily without spamming them.



If I could blame myself and my poor dodging skills, then I wouldn't mind it, but as it stands there's nothing I can do.

Learning better strategy could help. Blame yourself for being so dependent on spamming skills for damage and ignoring the EVP stat.



There's no reason to plow through that many scapes.

Ever think that maybe, just maybe some missions aren't meant for the purpose of getting MP and such? Considering if you're high enough to do this mission in this day and age of the game, you should have maxed out your char's class by now. If you need meseta there's many other easy missions you can do to get that. If you're doing this mission, you're here for the chance of rares and nothing else so leave your poor scapes at home if you hate losing them so easily.

[Zorafim]

On 2007-05-13 15:59, Sounomi wrote:
Don't use PAs constantly? The ice attack that Kamatozes use is believed to not be Dambarta either. There's always ice armor as well as non-yohmei armors that actually have decent MST.

Against Kamatozes, I don't. I circle around them until I find an opening, then rush in to attack. Of course, normal attacks won't do much, seeing how it'll just use dambarta anyway. The only way to get past this move that I've found is a knockup or knockback move, of which I'm currently using the first Axe PA. Even then, it's immune to both when it's casting, making them less useful.




Always mean death? Funny, EVP seems to lots of wonders for moves like this since it cancel out the damage while you slowly get pushed away.

Cast fortefighter. Not an option.



It's your own fault for dying here then. If skills is all of what matters to you in terms of dealing damage than something is quite wrong with your playing style.

Skill spamming is one of the reasons why megid is terrible. Should I just not use PAs at all when in an area where megid will be possible?



Again, EVP will block these moves.
Same problem, my PAs get blocked. Yes, I'd recover quicker and not take damage, but there's still no way to dodge the attack itself, or prepare for it.




EVP exists for a reason, y'know. EVP can be quite godly.

Evading and dodging are two completely different things. Evading only has a chance of happening, while you can depend on dodging. Besides, we all know that hunters hate evasion.





*looks at how many times you mention PA spamming* That's strategy? Wow... really fooled me there. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif
There's far more to playing a character than using skills non stop and slow techs >.>; If you can't see this than you really lack a sense of strategy and thus you can't be whining about this.

"Your strategy sucks and my strategy is awesome, since we both didn't go into any detail about any of them".




So you died alot in currently one of the game's hardest missions. Seems logical.
That doesn't mean I can't rant about it.




Again, there's more than just spamming skills. There's also many ways to take down goshins easily without spamming them.

Like...? I'd love to know what could possibly be better than knocking them up/back.




Learning better strategy could help. Blame yourself for being so dependent on spamming skills for damage and ignoring the EVP stat.

I ignore the evp stat because it harms me more often than it helps. I spam skills for damage because they're worth that much more. I hardly see you offering any tips besides these two, neither of which I see as viable options.




Ever think that maybe, just maybe some missions aren't meant for the purpose of getting MP and such? Considering if you're high enough to do this mission in this day and age of the game, you should have maxed out your char's class by now. If you need meseta there's many other easy missions you can do to get that. If you're doing this mission, you're here for the chance of rares and nothing else so leave your poor scapes at home if you hate losing them so easily.

MP isn't an issue, and meseta is questionable seeing the cost of the scapes. Will using moons be better than scapes, considering the reward at the end?

The point was, I dislike dieing so easily. A simple mistake can quickly run me out of HP, which seems to happen often. Even simply bad luck can do so. I suppose I should expect this, spamming the hardest missions currently out, but one would expect a strategy to build up that would maximize an offense to defense ratio.

[SolomonGrundy]

my rant is as follows: every freaking enemy in PSO has several moves, one or more of which inolve an attack it can still use when shocked.

True, a confused oglohmon is pretty useless, but ageeta breathes barta, worms throw fire, vanda's have damfoie, and diga? Give me an enemy with different moves: yes, but I tire of enemies that have so many different ways to annoy.

[Neith]

The problem with Kamatoze Dambarta isn't the damage. Even against a Beast fF, it only hits me for 80-140 a tick. The problem is the proc rate on Freeze. I did 4 runs of Rainbow Beast S2 last night, and out of all the times I got hit my Kama Dambarta, I got frozen every time, except once (and that was only because it hit me as a critical hit, and knocked me out of range).

If the freeze status didn't trigger so damn much, i'd be fine with it. Or you know, if it didn't hit BEHIND IT. Nothing more annoying that being behind a Kamatoze and still getting hit by Dambarta. It's really annoying.

Why the hell does the S-Rank I want have to drop in the most boring mission in all of PSU, from an equally annoying enemy?

[Mystil]

Sounomi... EVP is random..no matter how high you have it. It seems like you're an advocate for it. I don't see the point when this activates so randomly.

Many ways to take Goushins down..

Hmm lets see..

You can't expect every party to have a gunner type.

So I see.. about 6 ways. (there are more ways but I don't feel like all the typing)

Buten Shuren Zan combo 1
Single Claw PA 1 combo 1
Rising Crush PA combo 1 or combo 2
Axe normal attack 3rd hit, (not sure on the PA's)
Spiral Dance(whole damn thing)
Rising Strike combo 1

All the remaining ways can be pulled off by gunners.

I'm just going to touch on the matter that unless you have 50% weapons, spamming PA's is the ONLY WAY for a hunter type to deal good damage. Regular attacks only serve one purpose in this regard - to practice PP conservation, which I utilize quite well. It simply can't be argued against.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mystil on 2007-05-14 16:00 ]</font>

[amtalx]

Almost all of these problems can be solved by keeping your distance...you should have been a ranger. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Kerschweiser]

Almost all of these problems can also be solved by having a well equipped/PA'd fortegunner with you. Well timed grenades will knock down a komatoze and keep it pinned that way. Boma Maga interrupts stomps (save for Gol Dova's from what I've seen). Most mid bosses that I've seen (that thing at the end of Rainbow Beast, Jarbas, Gol Dovas) can be stun-locked by Mayalee Fury (thus locking out the chance for a tornado spin). Mind you, none of these attacks are potentially life-threatening to said monsters, but that's where the fighters and techers come in.

[Zorafim]

Yes, I've noticed that good rangers are godly in these regards. Unfortunately, due to the small supply of rangers, good ones are hard to come by. I have to make due with my PAs in this case.