A reload system.

[Niered]

I am normally not one to bother omplaining about PSU. I think that its a good game as-is, and I have even gone to the extent to call people that do complain about it whiners.

That said, with the news recently stated about a possible change-up of the combat system in AoI, I thought of a way to make guns more interesting in AoI.

Make them reload.

Basically, every type of gun would be given a max amount of shots that can be fired before it was empty. When you go to reload it (Which could easily be mapped to the "Skill" button, since we dont use that anyways) the gun would simply pull the required PP to fill the gun's cartridge back up. Its not a huge change to the system, but would actually make being a ranger type class interesting, as you would have to think about when and where to reload.

On a side note, certain weapons could also require you to standstill during your reload animation, such as rifles, launchers, and cannons.

This is just an idea, and I dont by any means expect it to be in the expansion, but I do think it would make the rangers less of a bore to play as, no?

[Lyrise]

Might be a bit hard to pull that off, even by story standards, because your gun isn't cartridge based, it's powered by a mini photon reactor.

[A2K]

I don't really think it actually solves the perceived problem here, either. I just don't see a whole lot of difference between "shoot shoot shoot" ad infinitum versus "shoot shoot shoot reload then continue shooting some more" ad infinitum.

[Sychosis]

Locational damage, on ALL monsters (for guns only), paired up with some proper hit detection and we'd be in business.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I've been thinking if guns had their own ATP and that ranged damage relied 100% on the gun itself instead of the character's base stats. I know this isn't real life but come on, it makes more sense if there were no base stat dependence on ranged damage.

[Golto]

No need to reload since they use energy for bullets and not actual metal bullets.

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-05-21 13:10, Shiroryuu wrote:
I've been thinking if guns had their own ATP and that ranged damage relied 100% on the gun itself instead of the character's base stats. I know this isn't real life but come on, it makes more sense if there were no base stat dependence on ranged damage.It might make sense for it to be based on your TP, since TECHs are just photon manipulation, and the guns fire photon bullets. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I can't really see that happening though.

[SolomonGrundy]

i don't get all the fuss as a ranger. PSO was the same way (special, special, special). it was even more monotonus as bullets ALL had seeking properties - that is to say, if you were in range, every bullet would find it's way to a target.

At least now there are traps, and guns run out of PP, or have different effects so it's not SPREAD NEEDLE, and FROZEN SHOOTER all day. Big improvement imo.

[jayster]

Maybe if you could equip bullets to a gun, sort of like spells to a wand. You get the x and y shot. You could equip ice to x and fire to y if you wanted. Or maybe you could have automatic shoot as an option, push y and it shoots 3 or 5 shots (sort of like PSO)

[Ithildin]

I don't find using rangers repetitive at all... I don't find using rangers repetitive at all... I don't find using rangers repetitive at all... I don't find using rangers repetitive at all... I don't find using rangers repetitive at all...

[Niered]

I understand it wouldnt make alot of sense in context, but i truly believe that naysayers of guns "being repetitive and boring" would be shut up by this.

At the very least, ST could and SHOULD have given us bullets that acted more like skills. Allow the normal elemental bullets to be placed on a gun, but also give us an attack to use with the "skill" button.

Many, if not all, of the Ult PA's would fit perfectly with this, seeing as how expensive they are to use, you could just activate them when you need them.

[Golto]

I do like the idea of setting something else to the 2nd button of the large guns. But i'd totally hate some kind long of pause like they had in PSO.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Golto on 2007-05-21 17:56 ]</font>

[Shiryuu]

On 2007-05-21 14:09, Golto wrote:
No need to reload since they use energy for bullets and not actual metal bullets.


What about the huge tenora handgun then?

[Kimil]

Um... Plasma weapons? Make the Weps overheat if you spam em? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif
Covenant Sniper FTL ><

edit ...

wait, hmm, how about make an option on the weapons, "overhaul" where the guns can go into ovetimer, but doing so makes them overheat sooner? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif (Plasma Rifle vs Brute Plasma)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-05-21 18:37 ]</font>

[Weeaboolits]

I don't see how I could overheat my dualies with twin freeze. ;]

[Garnet_Moon]

And then let everyone complain as they fall behind the damage output as they reload, or dying because something crit them while reloading? Haha, no.

[Niered]

Ive gotten used to the eternal bytching that is the internet, so I could care less about someone complaining about there DPS going down, as long as it lends itself to intruiging gameplay I'm fine with it.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2007-05-21 19:51, Niered wrote:
Ive gotten used to the eternal bytching that is the internet, so I could care less about someone complaining about there DPS going down, as long as it lends itself to intruiging gameplay I'm fine with it.


Slow Guns: 5-6 round clip (Grenade Launcher, Laser, etc)
Medium Guns: 20 round clip (Dualies, Singles, etc)
Fast Guns: 50 round clip (Mechguns)

Or, use a complex system of batteries and capacitors with various strengths and weaknesses per gun type to allow for a unique gaming experience per player.

For example...

Batteries: Longer life, deterioration over time leading to progressively weaker shots. Reloading would be every so often.
Capacitors: Shorter life, but more powerful rounds. Re-loading would be frequent, but the damage would be higher and constant.

[omegapirate2k]

On 2007-05-21 11:41, Sychosis wrote:
Locational damage, on ALL monsters (for guns only), paired up with some proper hit detection and we'd be in business.



BOOM, HEADSHOT!!!

I would definitely make a macro of that.

[Dragon_Knight]

Heh to the one person who said the guns should have static damage....According to story mode all the weapons have modular damage because they draw on the strength of the users spirit. So the stronger spirit the person has the more the photons in the weapons react to it.

That said it WOULD be funny to see A-photon reactors to power gun weapons. You would have very few shots AND be the first choice of target by any SEED, but your gun would have a static large damage blasts. Since A-photons don't draw on the latent power of the user.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

So maybe it should be TP based since its the user's spirit? It may make Newmans broken, and CASTs suck at Ranger, which shouldn't be the case. I still prefer static damage, besides, if TP is useless outside of Force, why not make ATP useless outside of Hunter? Another thing you can do is make ATA the stat for gun damage. Either way though, Rangers shouldn't even be about damage, at least not from the bullets theirselves, most of their damage should come from burn and virus. I kind of like Niered's ideas of reloading, it sounds a bit interesting.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-05-22 06:35 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

Maybe just add reloading animations... when you use a photon recharger...

[Suz]

On 2007-05-22 06:47, NuclearRanger wrote:
Maybe just add reloading animations... when you use a photon recharger...



Win.

[Zarode]

On 2007-05-21 11:13, Niered wrote:
Make them reload.


No


On 2007-05-21 11:41, Sychosis wrote:
Locational damage, on ALL monsters (for guns only), paired up with some proper hit detection and we'd be in business.



and no.

Ruin shotguns and you ruin Fortegunner...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarode on 2007-05-22 08:30 ]</font>

[Shiryuu]

On 2007-05-22 05:48, Dragon_Knight wrote:
Heh to the one person who said the guns should have static damage....According to story mode all the weapons have modular damage because they draw on the strength of the users spirit. So the stronger spirit the person has the more the photons in the weapons react to it.

That said it WOULD be funny to see A-photon reactors to power gun weapons. You would have very few shots AND be the first choice of target by any SEED, but your gun would have a static large damage blasts. Since A-photons don't draw on the latent power of the user.


Apparently it doesn't work that way. Svaltus sword is powered by an A-photon reactor. It looks like it really only affects the PP amount, so a gun with A-photon reactor would just have 2-3x the PP of a normal reactor version.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-05-22 06:28, Shiroryuu wrote:
Either way though, Rangers shouldn't even be about damage, at least not from the bullets theirselves, most of their damage should come from burn and virus.

This just sounds like a bunch of burn shot whores and/or non-gunners.

Use a grenade. Use a laser. Use a shotgun. "Gunners" seem to freak out the moment they're asked to do anything harder than standing in the corner of a room shooting stuff that's attacking someone else from FPV, or strafing in little doughnuts spamming crossbow / twin handgun. We can do some excellent direct damage, though it usually requires a variety of weaponry and PAs, as well as IRL skills and tactics.

[Akaimizu]

Depends on the gunners. You do realize that for Guntechers, a good crossbow or card spam is the only way they can do a good bit of direct damage, at this time (at least to 1 monster at a time). Now for the gunners with *real* ATP, then they have a lot more direct damage options.

Lasers are cool, though that usually involves either slower general DPS, or the opportune times to land it all, on a group before the bullets quickly run dry. Probably why the Ult Art is popular, because if you have limited use for it, better be a good one that stops most monsters from doing anything.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-05-22 09:58 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

The ultimate laser PA is as good as the 90 frags suggests. It's the only point-blank knockback you're going to get as a gunner, which is really handy for a bunch of uses, none of them being damage output or offensive value really.

Comparing my lv25-ish ice skills for laser, bow, handgun, and shotgun... 3+ targets with a laser is my best DPS and probably PP efficiency as well, regardless of class. I think the problem is that people tends to ignore the "3" and just see the "+"; you _can_ catch 6 or more targets in a laser beam for huge amounts of damage, but the time and effort to set it up will undo the performance advantages you're trying to get.

You can ALWAYS line up any two available targets. One more than that should be (and is) the minimum to require a degree of effort and reward you for it, which is far more fun than standing there mashing square to mediocre effect.

[Mutt12]

You do have to reload. It's called using a photon charge when your PP meter runs out. ^_^