When do lazers get a photon art that doesnt suck

[Orin654]

Personally as a ForteGunner I hate the things. Its slow....."but but it hits multiple"...doest matter, enemies dont stand in the smae spot as long in higher lvl games. And the thing takes FOREVER to lvl up. Is this weapon good for anything?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Orin654 on 2007-05-23 11:16 ]</font>

[Alkaar]

Laser + Ultimate PA = FTW!

[Retehi]

Yeah. . get the ultimate PA, then you might change your tune.

[Zarbolord]

The ult PA knocksback, but the laser stil kinda sucks, they'd need some cooler thing IMO.

[Akaimizu]

Some people, like myself, mainly use it for the Ultimate Art when you have no other viable weapon (grenades) and stuff you can use to throw enemies around.

The Ultimate Art stun locks most big enemies, and for those smaller, it causes knockdown and rollover. It's not quite as messy with the knockdown either, as it will make them travel in the direction the laser fires. That way you can pin a group to the wall, without the ability for them to attack or cast techs, while the group dominates them.

However, it has limited use as it drains PP quickly. Best used for those cases where you see a group or two that would cause the most trouble for your party, in that level.

The next best thing about it, is that people truly devalue the Laser Cannon; and people are slow to pick up on the Ultimate Art use. That means, you can get a great 9 star Thunder Cannon for a cheap price. That is, until the MayaLee Prism fever catches on.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-05-23 11:21 ]</font>

[Cz]

level it to 21+ first. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Akaimizu]

Actually, the Ultimate is very good. Something like that is really ultimate, in a RTS. That's a thing which actually can apply here, if you think about it.

[Retehi]

There is really no point in leveling the Ult PA to 21+. . the PP cost will just get worse, and the range doesn't exactly take a dramatic change.

It's not a damage PA, even if it had a modifier of 1 ATP, strategic people would still be using it just for the knockback purposes.

[Cz]

oops sorry...wasnt talking about the ult. PA one. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Bunny ment the normal pa ones. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[panzer_unit]

The ultimate laser PA's going to be useless in AoI when gunners get lv20 melee skills. Then you can use good old rising strike for the exact same thing. Anyway there are some monsters around where a melee PA is really what you want for dealing with 'em, and in the short term Mayalee Prism is the closest thing you've got.

Usually the normal laser skills are really easy to use properly. Look around for a teammate that's fighting with a bunch of monsters, and shoot in their direction... that's probably enough to get the handful of hits you needed to make the shot worth it.

It's not rocket science or anything.

[Akaimizu]

Actually, Guntechers never ever get 20 melee skills, never get a Grenade Launcher, and also the ULT laser is still a better use for herding than melee. All you have to do is line up the group, you can use it at range, and still cause the group to tumble a specific direction. It's actually much easier to control the direction of tumble, that way, and herd them to a particular spot.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-05-23 11:53 ]</font>

[chibiLegolas]

I still find it useful for it's ultimate PA. And am trying to level it to 21+ in hopes that the ata improves. There are instances where I would miss and will get screwed cause that's just one more enemy to try and round up with the rest that's knocked back.
But at least this will work on enemies from the front or the sides. No need to hide behind their backs.

And rising strike for sabers is different, no? That knocks-up rather than knock-back. Sometimes knock-back is useful if you wanna throw mobs towards FO's who use Gi techs a lot, among other things.

Have a hard time leveling up lazers? Try playing block 1 of Sleeping warriors on S. Those little green guys just keep coming at you constantly till they drop dead from you herding them into corners. And avoid the hoppers.
It's gonna cost you though on recharge cubes.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-05-23 12:12 ]</font>

[e_Tard]

I know exactly what you mean Orin. When the laser cannon came out back in december that was the first weapon I synthed. I used it for about a week, and after that never again...

The problem is you end up spending so much time running around mobs trying to line up good shots it becomes pointless. Especially when you could be doing x times the amount of dmg and spreading useful SE's (SE1 FTL) with other guns.

Like other posters have said, I only use my laser cannon for the ult PA. I find the knockback most useful while soloing, but it has very good situational uses in parties as well.

My advice; stick with the ult art and screw the rest of the bullets.

[Magician]

Mayalee Prism is good and doesn't get the love it should.

[panzer_unit]

I meant the second swing of Rising Strike, which tosses 2 monsters a pretty good distance with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Fortegunners (only) will get that in AoI. My main experience is as a Protranser and Mayalee Prism is last on my very long list of ways to herd monsters into a corner, it's a narrow shot and pretty hard to do a lot of creatures at once.

When I do use Mayalee Prism, it's because I can switch quickly to it from my regular laser shot and knock monsters back a bit if they're up in my face. I think regular element skills are the bread and butter for laser... they do so much damage if you know when to have the weapon ready and let your teammates get the monsters' attention before you start firing across a couple.

I found Valley of Carnage S the easiest place to level reglar lasers or any gun. The vandas will throw diga over your head while you tag 3 or 4 per shot.

[Eleina]

Lasers....a sorry excuse for barta and zonde...

[amtalx]

On 2007-05-23 12:43, panzer_unit wrote:
I meant the second swing of Rising Strike, which tosses 2 monsters a pretty good distance with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Fortegunners (only) will get that in AoI. My main experience is as a Protranser and Mayalee Prism is last on my very long list of ways to herd monsters into a corner, it's a narrow shot and pretty hard to do a lot of creatures at once.

When I do use Mayalee Prism, it's because I can switch quickly to it from my regular laser shot and knock monsters back a bit if they're up in my face. I think regular element skills are the bread and butter for laser... they do so much damage if you know when to have the weapon ready and let your teammates get the monsters' attention before you start firing across a couple.

I found Valley of Carnage S the easiest place to level reglar lasers or any gun. The vandas will throw diga over your head while you tag 3 or 4 per shot.



Fortegunners using a melee weapons for crowd control is a terrible idea. Explain to me the advantage of launching 2 creatures over being able to throwback 5 (I think its 5). Keep in mind that there IS a difference between launch and throwback. Not to mention that you can wash, rinse, repeat much faster with a Laser Cannon.

[Niered]

On 2007-05-23 11:24, Retehi wrote:
There is really no point in leveling the Ult PA to 21+. . the PP cost will just get worse, and the range doesn't exactly take a dramatic change.


Uwha...?

The cost of skills only rises at 11 and 21 respectively. Theres really no reason NOT to continue to level it up, because the damage and accuracy will increase with level.

Not that thats why you use it in the first place.

[Akaimizu]

It's also still the *only* choice for a Guntecher. Otherwise, the only herding they can do is attract a heap of monsters with Mechguns and Twin Handguns, and the monsters can still attack and cast, during that time. When soloing, it's also used as a *blowback* move, because again, no other choice.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-05-23 13:00 ]</font>

[Kimil]

A way to fix lazers:

At each higher PA level interval (11-20, 21-30, )
The Width of the lazer should increase along with the range.

( O = player, X = lazer,ignore the "."s )

lvl 1:

O-XXXXXXXXxx

lvl 11:
....xxxxxxxxxxxx
O-XXXXXXXXXxxxx
....xxxxxxxxxxxx

lvl 21:
....XXXXXXXXXXXxxxxx
O-XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXxxxxx
....XXXXXXXXXXXxxxxx

[Criss]

Totally agreed with Kimil. Shotguns, xbows and cards get extra bullets, why wouldn't the lasers get extra width? I say SHOOP DA WHOOP! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[amtalx]

I don't know about Shotguns, Xbows, and Cards getting extra bullets... That may make them just too powerful. Shotguns in particular. As much as I would love to tote around an S-rank Shotgun (when the get freakin' unlocked) with 6 shots ripping everything to shreds, it would encroach too much on a fighter classes usefulness. Rangers have good DPS but the brunt of the burden should rest on the hunters.

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-05-23 15:29, amtalx wrote:
I don't know about Shotguns, Xbows, and Cards getting extra bullets... That may make them just too powerful. Shotguns in particular. As much as I would love to tote around an S-rank Shotgun (when the get freakin' unlocked) with 6 shots ripping everything to shreds, it would encroach too much on a fighter classes usefulness. Rangers have good DPS but the brunt of the burden should rest on the hunters.



shotguns are no threat to fighter usefullness. Swords hit 3 targets with a 600+ ATP weapon with 20+% element with normal swing. That hits harder than shotguns with less recharge time. Add in PA's and higher base ATP and you should see that shots do not really compare (unless DoTs are used, naturally)
Crosbows OTHO...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2007-05-23 16:12 ]</font>

[natewifi]

Laser cannons should have a PA that hits multiple times, but for only one target, then it would be actually useful, but right now mayalee is okay but its still not cutting it for the Laser Cannon imo.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-05-23 12:52, amtalx wrote:
Fortegunners using a melee weapons for crowd control is a terrible idea.

Why? You would have the 1h gun and PA of your choice available at the same time. You can be doing good damage AND crowd control.

Personally I find Mayalee Prism's range sort of limiting for how many targets I can catch. You don't have much of a window of opportunity between when the pack of monsters gets into range and when they start getting off to the side where the beam will miss or knock 'em in a funny direction.

[Garanz-Baranz]

On 2007-05-23 12:45, Eleina wrote:
Lasers....a sorry excuse for barta and zonde...


Ahem, What has the better rate of fire? Hm? Which can get more that 2[3 if Megid peirces] Arrtibutes?

Anywho, on topic, The Laser Cannon is a fair weapon, though it can't replace the Rifle, it's a devestating damage tool, fare stronger than a Zonde or so, and Lv's faster than Zonde/Barta[and posibly Megid].

Sure, the Cannon is a hard weapon to master, but it can be easyly used effectively. Unlike the Grenader, the Laser Cannon doesn't have to be labled "situational". If it was situational, then It's effectiveness would be near 0%.

The Cannon can be used in great efficiancy against enemies that dont side-step/Turn & run, examples of which are Badira, Olgohmon, and Ageeta.

Also it's fairly good against robots.

The best place to use Laser Cannons are in hallways... but 99% of all enemy spawns are NOT in a hallway...

>.>

Oh, btw, Laser Cannons do lv faster than rifles, you just have to USE them...

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-05-23 16:08, SolomonGrundy wrote:

Crosbows OTHO...



Crossbows aren't all that, really. In a Guntecher's hands, it's more of a tool which allows them to do pretty decent damage if used on 1 single monster at a time. However, they have no provision, with that tool, to actually do anything rated as even maybe 1/3rd a hunters damage across 3 monsters. And that's when the monster is bullet vulnerable. It becomes closer to pitiful when the monster is bullet resistant (normally shielded and thus no status effect either). I couldn't imagine the ATP boost from Figunner or Fortegunner to push it that far above. They may have more ATP but I wouldn't think it would make the damage raise with too much significance.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-05-24 07:54 ]</font>

[MayLee]

When Koltova fly. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-05-23 17:11, Garanz-Baranz wrote:
Sure, the Cannon is a hard weapon to master, but it can be easyly used effectively. Unlike the Grenader, the Laser Cannon doesn't have to be labled "situational". If it was situational, then It's effectiveness would be near 0%.


The thing I like better about grenades than lasers is that when your chance to use a grenade comes up, you're firing at 100% efficiency on EVERY SHOT... monster gets knocked down so it's awesome for everyone else, and you hit it in 3 or 4 locations for great damage and skill improvement.

With lasers, your optimal shots come and go even in situations that favor them. There are no guarantees you can always get three targets in a straight line even for favorable monsters. On the other hand the shots aren't _that_ expensive for a fortegunner so you can zap a pair of monsters if that's the best you can get for any given shot and next time you shoot 4 it'll balance out.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-05-24 08:08, MayLee wrote:
When Koltova fly. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Well, guess they are already useful then. MayLee has spoken, and Koltova really do Fly! I see them all the time. The elusive Skeet Koltova.

Ahh. The memories. I've shot quite a few of them in my time. Hmm. Wait a minute! It's still my time! Guess I have more flying Koltova to hunt.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-05-24 08:08, panzer_unit wrote:

With lasers, your optimal shots come and go even in situations that favor them. There are no guarantees you can always get three targets in a straight line even for favorable monsters.


Very true, but you forget one thing. You have complete control of where the monsters go. So I've actually made my monsters line up, from time to time. On not so good, opportunities, I make my first major shot to push most of the monsters one way, run and push the rest into them. Then if they are tough monsters and still need pinning, they're all together for me to continue. Of course, without use of grenades, I make do with what I have, but I like what I get with it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-05-24 08:13 ]</font>

[amtalx]

On 2007-05-23 16:56, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-05-23 12:52, amtalx wrote:
Fortegunners using a melee weapons for crowd control is a terrible idea.

Why? You would have the 1h gun and PA of your choice available at the same time. You can be doing good damage AND crowd control.

Personally I find Mayalee Prism's range sort of limiting for how many targets I can catch. You don't have much of a window of opportunity between when the pack of monsters gets into range and when they start getting off to the side where the beam will miss or knock 'em in a funny direction.



Because launching 2 enemies with Rising Strike is not CROWD control. 2 is company, 3 is a crowd. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Besides, launch doesn't push enemies together. Throwback does. A-la Mayalee Prism and Grenade Launchers. Using Rising Strike to get some enemies off your back is great if you're using a 1-handed weapon, sure. But that's just a defense tactic, not crowd control.

[MayLee]

On 2007-05-24 08:10, Akaimizu wrote:

On 2007-05-24 08:08, MayLee wrote:
When Koltova fly. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



Well, guess they are already useful then. MayLee has spoken, and Koltova really do Fly! I see them all the time. The elusive Skeet Koltova.

Ahh. The memories. I've shot quite a few of them in my time. Hmm. Wait a minute! It's still my time! Guess I have more flying Koltova to hunt.

Mmm, there's nothing like tossed becon in the morning..Slap me some Koltova becon with a side of Rappy Eggs please. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I am not a big fan of lazers...But I just might get one for Neicie

[chibiLegolas]

On 2007-05-23 16:42, natewifi wrote:
Laser cannons should have a PA that hits multiple times, but for only one target, then it would be actually useful, but right now mayalee is okay but its still not cutting it for the Laser Cannon imo.



Agree.
Would it be too powerful to make lazers multi-target body parts of the same enemy? G-launchers already do so, but that's a spread effect. Lazers are thin, straight, short lines.
I'd say that's a good trade, no?

There's only a few enemies who has multi-targeted parts anyways. And I don't see this being too overpowering.
We will still hit the med/small mobs the same since they still only have 1 hit target area.

Take De-Ragan for example.
G-launchers are already great on him. Now with the lazer, you'd have to possition yourself right to maximize target areas. While G-launchers will always hit as long as you're in range. And with lazers, that also means getting up closer to him to squeeze out every inch you got with it's length.
A nice give'n take, no?

In IoA, G-launchers seems to be available as B (possibly C) rank. So gunners can level them up earlier on. While Lazers can still stay only A rank, to further distinguish them apart.

Man, I wish I can submit ideas to Sega of Japan....


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-05-24 10:00 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-05-24 09:54, chibiLegolas wrote:
Agree.
Would it be too powerful to make lazers multi-target body parts of the same enemy?

Because Sega doesn't want Guntechers access to anything that hits multi-target body parts of the same enemy. If lazers did that, they would have it, and that's a no-no for Sega, it seems.

However, if they did ever give them that ability, the Laser Cannon would gain a load of popularity with that class alone. A multi-target (same creature) hitting weapon? They'd shout "We got one!!!" like Janine did in Ghostbusters, with their first real call; and run, not walk, to their nearest player shop and grab them lasers up. (And can I have any more movie theatre references in one reply? Sheesh! Well, I'm off to the lobby, to get myself a treat.)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-05-24 10:22 ]</font>

[chibiLegolas]

On 2007-05-24 10:15, Akaimizu wrote:

On 2007-05-24 09:54, chibiLegolas wrote:
Agree.
Would it be too powerful to make lazers multi-target body parts of the same enemy?

Because Sega doesn't want Guntechers access to anything that hits multi-target body parts of the same enemy. If lazers did that, they would have it, and that's a no-no for Sega, it seems.


Hmm... I guess it would make PT and FoG less desirable then. I still don't see it being too overpowering damage wise, but it would make the previous 2 classes less unique. Good point.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-05-24 11:09 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-05-24 08:18, amtalx wrote:

Because launching 2 enemies with Rising Strike is not CROWD control. 2 is company, 3 is a crowd. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Besides, launch doesn't push enemies together. Throwback does.



I said _in_AoI_ when Fortegunners get lv20 melee skills and have the throwback moves for saber or dagger, THEN the frag PA for laser is gonna be (even more... see: grenades) redundant for them. The reason I've got mayalee prism for myself is 'cause switching between identical weapons is instant... that means I've got knockback available at very short notice when I'm using my ice laser. It's a huge help in harder missions.

If I wasn't a laser addict or a guntecher I'd take a pass on it.