Alright, a little schooling..

[Sysop]

Lets Clear something up here

First, Everyone needs to understand a number of things.

The first one being the definition of a Hacker. A Hacker is somebody who spends time learning EVERYTHING about a piece of technology. Hackers have also been known as the pioneers of technology/computers, the explorers.

Thus making the term ?Hacks? mean nothing? literally ?Hacks? would be translated directly to a hacker explorer a system.

Now for Crackers. Crackers is a off-bread of hackers, Crackers normally (in the computer world) start off as hackers, You need to know everything about a system. Once you know everything about a system, you start to figure out ?hey, if I install a virus onto this system I?m in, then I?ll be somebody and get noticed?. That making a cracker a person who Hacks into a system and causes damage.

So, now, point those first two view-points at PSO.

Baru = A Game Cracker
PSO kids with GS?s = Kids taking Baru?s codes he gained from hacking the game.
Codes = Hex strings found though the source that input commands into the game, Note, the codes aren?t called ?hacks? they are codes, or hex strings?

So, code users on PSO are NOT hackers, and they are NOT crackers. When it comes down to it, only the people who actually hacked the game itself and extracted their own codes from the source are the only hackers involved. Baru would be considered a cracker then, he sometimes tends to use his skills to produce hostile codes that only destroy or exploit the game? at any rate, he is still a cracker. My point being, Why is it soo damn hard for people to not understand what the difference between hackers, code users, crackers, and dumb people are? Where are your brains people?

I'm soooo sick of hearing people say, "Oh, I'm a hacker, I'll dupe some items, or I'll PK you." "I got hacked by a kid with a gameshark" "I went online and I found a ton of PSO hacks"

Oh, okay, you are right, you are a PSO/Console hacker because you know how to type a couple lines of hex code into a electronic cheat device that does the rest for you.

Baru Is not a hacker, he is a Cracker and he knows his shit. but he is not a hacker. Cracking takes more then hacking anyways. you gotta know how to hack first to crack.

I know this is going to slip everyone's closed minded brains and everyone will always continue to call code users, crackers, script kiddies, pirates, and programmers - Hackers, I mean, the damn media tells the whole nation that "a Hacker broke into a corporate system and downloaded sensitive material then crashed all their $4 million dollar Cray Supercomputers" Its life, but at least I finally feel better now that I mentioned it to all you "PSO hackers"

Continue to dub yourselves as hackers for inputting a string of hexadecimal into a electronic device to give you weapons in a game. Continue to call GS codes, Hacks. I mean, I just thought I'd help by explaining the definition of the words... but if you want to continue to look like fools? do so.

Your System Operator,
x SysOp.

[sonicblue]

Um, thanks for the lesson. But I'm still gonna call them hackers if you don't mind. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Heck, sometimes I even call myself a hacker when I forget a password but then I remember it. ^_^;;



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sonicblue on 2002-12-15 05:07 ]</font>

[LollipopLolita]

wrong forum!

[TeamPhalanx]

On 2002-12-15 04:54, Sysop wrote:
..Baru Is not a hacker, he is a Cracker...


I agree with everything you've said except for this. A cracker is esentially a hacker gone bad. While a hacker would do something like break into a government website and leave a little message (more for challenge and playfulness), a cracker would instead target something like a bank site (do for harm/profit).

Baru is neither. Both hackers/crackers have a great deal of pride and write up their own programs. Neither would deal is something so simplisitc as back-solving. Even in that department baru is an amateur compared to the pros.

If a real hackers/cracker wanted to figure out PSO, they'd take apart the GC itself and figure out the architecture and start from there. In other words, they'd have talents/abilities that are on par with the developers themselves.

I tend to laugh whever someone says baru has talent. Good hackers don't bother with someting like a video game, as it's just too easy for them and not something you get to brag about (unless you like being laughed at). The heroes in the hacker community are the ones that break into high security places.

[Wewt]

Nice post... but I doubt most people will give a damn about it, and I mean this in a nice way. People simply use the word hacker, because it's short and they know what it's being refered to when somebody mentions it.

Like you said here:

PSO kids with GS?s = Kids taking Baru?s codes he gained from hacking the game.
That's pretty long compared to "hacker". Go ahead and give everybody a short word to label them if you're really annoyed. Hacker works just fine for almost everybody. Besides, you can't get THAT annoyed by people using the term "hacker" in this way, can you?

This isn't just PSO, either. If you've played any other online games, all cheaters will just be called a hacker or cheater. So you'd have educate hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, that use the term "hacker", when referring to a cheater. People don't always use the correct term for labelling people, anyway. I'll call somebody an asshole, dick-head, or whatever you can think of, when they do something horrible to me, somebody else, or if I simple don't like them.

[Sysop]

I disagree with the whole "pro hacker" stuff. What defines a pro hacker? and who are you to decide that a "pro" hacker wounldnt want to hack such a popular, online, world-wide game?

I made it clear that baru is a cracker and not a hacker, i guess he's trying to say that he's uses his powers for good now... but i know deep inside that he has private codes of his own that are hostile.

Baru has taken his Dreamcast and mostlikly his Gamecube apart, he had to do it to his dreamcast to install his, own custon link cable. I've talked to Baru was back in the DC days and he briefly explained his setup to me. I now have forgotten like all of it. (oh well)

SO basically wouldnt this make Baru a "pro" hacker(cracker) in your book? He's taken his systems apart to install serial link connections of his own makings and, who knows, i'm sure he has to have some of his own software to help aid his PSO hacking. And he definatly has to understand Hexidecimal to a T.

I'd say thats pretty good skill, not to mention how he cracked into those hidden characters, how he can become any character he wants right in front of your face, change his name, his level, name/level colors, How he can get anyone guild number, avoid the hunters license, become uncatchable (on the DC version)... i mean... are you trying to say he's not skilled? what would you consider a "pro" hacker or cracker?

[TeamPhalanx]

I seriously doubt Baru managed to reverse engineer either the DC or GC. Anyone with a basic EE skills can hook up a console to a PC.

The only difference between and hacker and a cracker is the actions they take.

A real hacker would be able to alter the PSO universe, like create an offline quests, since that would require inputting your own codes instead of simply copying off what already exists.

Hacking is like an art where you create. Baru does not of that, all he does is imitate.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TeamPhalanx on 2002-12-15 11:33 ]</font>

[Sysop]

Hacking isnt creating, its Knowing everything about somthing, (ie. Knowing an OS better then the actual developers) Baru broke into the system disc and he disassembled some source and found codes. Thats hacking, then he found codes that are hostile, once he used those codes, he instantly became a cracker.

Its as simple as that.

[TeamPhalanx]

LMAO...

You have... how shall I say... a very low standard.

[Sysop]

Who says thats my standard? And who says knowing everything better then the developers themselves is a low standard?

Its not my fault you are disappointed by the real meaning of the term; Hacker.

Lets just put it this way, i made my point, virtually nobody is a hacker on PSO. Once you are a hacker and know everything about a certain system, normally that person progresses into a differnt stage such as: Cracker, Script Kiddie, even Programmer...

My point was, nobody really understands the true meaning of "Hacker"... and everyone uses it and they dont even know what it really means...

[Maverynthia]

I'd say a PSO hacker would be someone that could exploit the game through using the games code against itself by taking apart that system. Cracker (Saltines anyone?) would use that to of course PK, VK, BSOD and FSOD everyone...

Though I think of Hacking as trying to bypass security by using programs or making programs designed for it. Cracking IMO would be to figure out the algorythms behind said programs and devices. Like Cracking a code.
Hacking meaning to continuously bash away at something with a sharp object
Cracking to break apart something with a use of crushing of battering strength. Or to solve a riddle or puzzle that has been ciphered.

CB and GS people aren't even Crackers! They just use something, type in random numbers and letters and boom, make stuff happen.

I call them N00bs!! So I'll just say when I get a BSODd that I have been N00bed...

[Kaervek]

*picks up dictionary...*

hack·er1
n. Informal
-One who is proficient at using or programming a computer; a computer buff.
-One who uses programming skills to gain illegal access to a computer network or file.
-One who enthusiastically pursues a game or sport: a weekend tennis hacker.

*sets dictionary down, proceeds to post*

This thread is rather annoying me. First of all, anyone who uses a "cheat device," be it Gameshark or CodeBreaker, is NOT a hacker.

Based upon the third defenition of "hacker," most people that post on this site are considered hackers. Heh, go to school before you "school" us. And I believe the correct term would be "teaching," not "schooling."

God, I hope this ends this thread. People discussing a definition without actually getting the definition is just hillarious.

[Tavia]

On 2002-12-15 12:25, Sysop wrote:
Who says thats my standard?

You do, by saying that it is the definition of "hacker", and that you believe it is such, cut and dried.

Its not my fault you are disappointed by the real meaning of the term; Hacker.

Ever heard of white hats and black hats? I wonder how much you really do know. I'm sure your answer to that will say something.

Also, if you think a script kiddie is more sophisticated than a hacker, you truly do have your terminology wrong.

I am sorry, but while you have a general idea of what a hacker is, you are incorrect in your defense. Someone commonly interpreted to be a hacker is, as you say, someone who can learn a system -- either physical or digital -- through and through. That's just someone who's intimately familiar with something. A hacker is more than that. Also, just because they exploit things does not mean they suddenly know more than the creators of the product -- they just know how to tear it apart.

My point was, nobody really understands the true meaning of "Hacker"... and everyone uses it and they dont even know what it really means...

As someone else said, sadly, your post that's been made in defense of true hackers will largely fall on deaf ears. However, although your intentions may be good, even your words are not entirely correct.

[Tavia]

On 2003-01-03 15:03, Kaervek wrote:
People discussing a definition without actually getting the definition is just hillarious.

A definition is not always the common interpretation nor the formal meaning behind slang terminology.

[LordCronai]

Let's just call them all 'bad guys' http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Sol-Invictus]

I'd call Barubary a hacker. He knows his shit, and it's not like he's out to make the game suck for everyone, he's just pointing out flaws.

Dupers are at best script kiddies. People who think they're cool cause they know how to follow instructions and do things they aren't otherwise supposed to do.

[Tavia]

On 2003-01-05 00:45, Sol-Invictus wrote:
Dupers are at best script kiddies.

Indeed. I agree.

(No, this wasn't just put here to up my post count. Really. I agree. I do!)

[BonusKun]

I usually call em retarded dipshits for the most part and go about my business.

*heh* Some people have way too much freetime to even think about this crap.

[Sedric]

On 2003-01-04 19:45, LordCronai wrote:
Let's just call them all 'bad guys' http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



This must the best solution to this petty argument in this thread.


On 2003-01-05 16:28, BonusKun wrote:
I usually call em retarded dipshits for the most part and go about my business.


LOL. The name fits them perfectly.


*heh* Some people have way too much freetime to even think about this crap.



*Ding-ding-ding* We have a winner!