Giresta will finally get the attention it deserves!

[EspioKaos]

Just stumbled across this (http://www.g-heaven.net/pso/topics/070604a.html) bit of information from Shougai PSO (http://www.g-heaven.net/). Turns out that SonicTeam threw in a little surprise with last week's update to the servers: no more death penalty!

Following the update, players found out that (just like it was in the beta of Ambition of the Illuminus and in the Firebreak missions) you can still get an S rank on a mission even if a fellow player dies without a Scape Doll. As long as they're revived before the mission ends, you're good to go. Finally, no more gripping Scape Dolls in fear of your life and mission rank. It'll be awesome once we see this update on the NA/EU/360 servers; Moon Atomizers and Giresta will finally become useful! On that, I wouldn't be surprised if we see this in Friday's update. Or... I wonder if it was already implemented and no one's mentioned it yet? I should go test this out...

[Garnet_Moon]

Guess I need to get it sooner than I planned then...

[Davot]

yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deja]

awesome, mines lvl 3.

Fear me

[Dj_SkyEpic]

Time to actually level it.
O..o Giresta

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dj_SkyEpic on 2007-06-04 18:37 ]</font>

[Sychosis]

Needing to actually pay attention while playing was nice while it lasted.

[Kimil]

Haha, Sweet... Time to Go Wartecher soon again http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif Got Giesta ready to go

[EspioKaos]

On 2007-06-04 18:36, Sychosis wrote:
Needing to actually pay attention while playing was nice while it lasted.

Funny. That's the exact same thing I remember hearing about people who always had a full inventory of Scape Dolls. I actually think this will help people be more careful (if they don't have any Scape Dolls, at least) because now they'll actually have to rely on someone else to bring them back as opposed to springing right back up from a stray ball (or four) of Megid.

EDIT: Forgot to actually finish my point. Whoops.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EspioKaos on 2007-06-04 18:52 ]</font>

[Esufer]

On 2007-06-04 18:36, Sychosis wrote:
Needing to actually pay attention while playing was nice while it lasted.


Time to go afk in bosses!

[csmicbcklsh]

This is awesome! I actually got Giresta so I would be ready for the expansion, but if this is implemented now my party will consider me a godsend.

[Garnet_Moon]

Us Techers still need to stockpile Scape Dolls even if everyone else doesn't. If we die, the rest of them are screwed as well.

[Kimil]

On 2007-06-04 18:49, Garnet_Moon wrote:
Us Techers still need to stockpile Scape Dolls even if everyone else doesn't. If we die, the rest of them are screwed as well.



Not us Beast Wartechers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2007-06-04 18:50, Kimil wrote:

On 2007-06-04 18:49, Garnet_Moon wrote:
Us Techers still need to stockpile Scape Dolls even if everyone else doesn't. If we die, the rest of them are screwed as well.



Not us Beast Wartechers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif


I saw a Beast Wartecher die once. I swear I did. I don't remember where or when, or even how I was there, but I saw it. Honest.

[Zorafim]

Wha... WHAT?!

[Dragwind]

This sounds pretty hawt. I can't wait. WT giresta ftw.

[Kimil]

On 2007-06-04 18:52, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2007-06-04 18:50, Kimil wrote:

On 2007-06-04 18:49, Garnet_Moon wrote:
Us Techers still need to stockpile Scape Dolls even if everyone else doesn't. If we die, the rest of them are screwed as well.



Not us Beast Wartechers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif


I saw a Beast Wartecher die once. I swear I did. I don't remember where or when, or even how I was there, but I saw it. Honest.



Was he/she AFK? or a n00b or something? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif
Hit by a car while playing PSU?

[Niered]

Wait....so...this is true of EVERY mission? Not JUST Firebreak?

Like...wauw.

[Inazuma]

0_0! if i do a normal mission on jp ver, i dont have to use scapes? wow, awesome! ill try this out after famitsu event ends.

[F-Gattaca]

*sheds a tear in joy*

MY WALLET IS SAVED.

[Almighty_Envy]

WOOT! Im not gonna be spending countless meseta on scapes anymore! %@!# you people who ban me if i die!

Now i can try to regain my precious meseta

[Sychosis]

On 2007-06-04 18:46, EspioKaos wrote:

On 2007-06-04 18:36, Sychosis wrote:
Needing to actually pay attention while playing was nice while it lasted.

Funny. That's the exact same thing I remember hearing about people who always had a full inventory of Scape Dolls. I actually think this will help people be more careful (if they don't have any Scape Dolls, at least) because now they'll actually have to rely on someone else to bring them back as opposed to springing right back up from a stray ball (or four) of Megid.

EDIT: Forgot to actually finish my point. Whoops.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EspioKaos on 2007-06-04 18:52 ]</font>


A shame then that I haven't had a scape doll (that I didn't find, and subsequently lose) on me for weeks. Firebreak has most definitely spoiled me, huge rewards without a care in the world. Someone always has moons or giresta on hand if for no other reason than to keep the team moving faster.

A real fix would be to have deaths count for you, and you alone, then having Giresta/moons restore a portion of your score to you even if you have to be revived. Giresta/moons have an actual use, slackers don't penalize the entire team, AND you want to keep on your toes so you get your own rewards. Everyone wins over the current system.

[Kimil]

Me and Levia just tried it... nope, Giresta is still useless lol, wait till friday maybe
...

Maybe it wont be implemented till after Firebreak? like a month after the JP updates like everyhting else lol T_T

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-06-04 19:18 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

Jeesh, you post fast. I just logged off.

[Fulgore]

Tricky Tricky SEGA, Tricky Tricky.......

.....That means that less people will want to Solo as well......seeing as they will have as hard of a time as usual BUT will still have to use Scapes to get the mission rewards........Yet another way SEGA has made Party-UP more popular.......I agree with Sychosis though, this will make people care a lot less about performance.......but at least when those losers join right at the end and DIE we wont get punished IF they let us revive them before quitting http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif.....could go either way

[Parn]

I like the change, if only because it's one less reason for people to boot others. Hopefully people will become a lot more open-minded and a lot less intolerant.

[Esufer]

On 2007-06-04 19:21, Parn wrote:
I like the change, if only because it's one less reason for people to boot others. Hopefully people will become a lot more open-minded and a lot less intolerant.


Naaah. Now people will find something else to gripe about instead.

Like if you don't use a mic. =/

[Kimil]

On 2007-06-04 19:18, Zorafim wrote:
Jeesh, you post fast. I just logged off.



Haha, doesn't seem like anyone listened though XD

[Hath_Wrobo]

Color me confused, but does this mean that Giresta will prevent rank loss starting Friday for the US servers? Or was this just implemented in the Japanese version, meaning this will not occur here until a couple of months pass?

[Allison_W]

On 2007-06-04 19:21, Parn wrote:
I like the change, if only because it's one less reason for people to boot others. Hopefully people will become a lot more open-minded and a lot less intolerant.



I died without scapes on one of the Neudaiz (read: totally low-pressure) Firebreak missions. The rest of the group was like, "WTF, who carries moons these days?" and kicked me out.

That, and I still hear people saying they'll boot anyone who dies without a scape even if the death penalty can be avoided with moons.

'Tards.

[Fulgore]

LOL!!! Now I finally understand......

.......was soloing a Firebreak mission and my PM/NPC's died so I booted their A$$ and I still S Ranked the mission and I was all ????????? and *_* trying to figure out Why.....now I get it though......they revived themselves before the "Boot" so WOoHOo http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[EspioKaos]

On 2007-06-04 19:31, Hath_Wrobo wrote:
Color me confused, but does this mean that Giresta will prevent rank loss starting Friday for the US servers? Or was this just implemented in the Japanese version, meaning this will not occur here until a couple of months pass?

Right now it's on the JP servers only, so we don't know for sure just yet if the rest of the servers will get it with this Friday's update or one further down the line. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for this update, though.

[Chaobo99]

geez...more attention grabbing to the forces..when we use resta and buffs >.> oh well, it's our duty *sigh*..just wait till dizaz and retis..if we get the stuff.
Ah well i guess now i can fill my whole rod with light spells ^_^, was saving that last spot for a light attacker.

[DurakkenX]

do you guys remember those odd things called moon atomizers >.>

[Fulgore]

LOL! Guess if this Nonsense is for real I'll start stocking up Moon X's instead of leaving/selling em and make presents to take with me and etc........Cuz I aint junking up my PA's with Giresta.....no Way!

[A2K]

Just for clarification, returning to the lobby when knocked out still results in the loss of trial points and drop in rank, correct?

I'm pleased by the notion of Giresta, Moon, and Cosmo Atomizers having more of a use now but I do have to put forward my concerns that this could make the game too easy. It's only right that there be some sort of penalty (greater than some PP or a 350 meseta item) for carelessness.

[Almighty_Envy]

Maybe they might reduce mp/Meseta for it? Maybe the S rank is just so you can still get frags...

[DraginHikari]

To me it just seems much like they're just trying to encourage more team play as mentioned earlier, either way it's a nice idea I feel.

[Kairi_Li]

So has anyone test this on the NA servers yet?

[Dragwind]

Pfft, moon's are way cheap. Don't worry about fo's and they're giresta. Consider it a novelty.

[Fulgore]

In My Opinion, I agree with the Mod, they should still have some sort of penalty, a "Personal" Penalty....like if you Die you get penalized and not the whole team, unless you have a Scape of course......that way you could be lazy and cheap and not get a scape and not hurt the team when you die and they could still "Moon" You http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif and you are getting the point right?......

That way everyone would be happy......

EDIT: HAHAHAH, I can see it now, "What, you don't have a Scape?...hold on a Sec, I'll come Moon You http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif"

DOUBLE EDIT: Tea Bag Anyone? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Fulgore on 2007-06-04 21:50 ]</font>

[Africa]

Somehow I see someone dying and being revived just to get booted.Perhaps this will help convey teamwork or backfire. Another reason to lvl gi-resta and a reason to overwrite resta. I say it's uneventfull for the most part.

[Kimil]

Many ppl don't read this forum, so even when we get the update... ppl wont know about it! So ppl will still be booted for no Scapes <_>

[Fulgore]

........good point Kimil......it is something that will have to circulate before people catch on to the concept......and even then....I'm sure people will be revived/booted as formentioned

[Scion]

I'm so happy I leveled it to 30...kinda

W00t! I knew having it would be a good idea! XD

Now I can put that tech to use, and Hikaru will finally be the awesome healer that I wanted him to be. XD

I have to get this tech for Robo-Hikaru now...>.>

[Powder Keg]

I agree with what Parn said. I've been guilty of kicking people out for not bringing scapes in S rooms. But on the bright side, now Moon Atomizers and Giresta will actually serve a purpose. I felt bad for whoever wasted their PA frags on it, but now they can put it to good use.

More importantly....no penalties for PM/NPC death! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif This I am very excited about....

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Artea on 2007-06-04 23:09 ]</font>

[Fulgore]

On 2007-06-04 23:08, Artea wrote:
I agree with what Parn said. I've been guilty of kicking people out for not bringing scapes in S rooms. But on the bright side, now Moon Atomizers and Giresta will actually serve a purpose. I felt bad for whoever wasted their PA frags on it, but now they can put it to good use.

More importantly....no penalties for PM/NPC death! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif This I am very excited about....

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Artea on 2007-06-04 23:09 ]</font>


http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif.......I don't know WHY but for some reason that part slipped my mind entirely http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif The return of Meat Shields WOOOOT!!! Finally I can do De Ragan S2 Runs and when my Retarded PM runs up to his Fire Breath I can go, "Burn Baby, Burn!" HAHAHa http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[biggabertha]

I'm liking the idea of making a TECHNIC and two items useful other than bragging rights and PM feeding. However, people who do not carry scapes and die, simply return to the city/checkpoint/revive themselves and then proceed to boot themselves from the team. How is it possible to safeguard against such acts? Play only with people whom you know and trust? Think of a clever way to put it all in the comment box under the team name and hope that people will read it?

Great idea SEGA but it's got a few flaws in it. At least we know they're working on the game mechanics and doing things for us to make this game more enjoyable.

[Eleina]

Yay let's level Giresta!!!!...wait mines lvl 30 guess i'll let someone else do it <.<

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

So what the hell is the penalty for dying now?


Well, whatever, this just means I'll end up dying a lot more than before, but whatever. Saves money on Scapes in the long run, so yay.

EDIT: Also, Giresta is still useless until they lower the PP consumption and change it so it no longer takes five weeks to cast.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ffuzzy-Logik on 2007-06-04 23:47 ]</font>

[-Ryuki-]

What's GiResta? o_O?

[Mystil]

Giresta is the lazy dumbdowned version of Resta and PSO's reverser. It revives and give a small HP regen effect.

I call it lazy because I've seen some forces use it as an excuse to cut down on actual healing. On my force, I don't have it, don't need it, don't wont it. I kept my moon/moon x's all this time for a reason.

[Reipard]

A shame then that I haven't had a scape doll (that I didn't find, and subsequently lose) on me for weeks. Firebreak has most definitely spoiled me, huge rewards without a care in the world. Someone always has moons or giresta on hand if for no other reason than to keep the team moving faster.

A real fix would be to have deaths count for you, and you alone, then having Giresta/moons restore a portion of your score to you even if you have to be revived. Giresta/moons have an actual use, slackers don't penalize the entire team, AND you want to keep on your toes so you get your own rewards. Everyone wins over the current system.

I disagree. The current system was designed for the sole purpose of encouraging team play. However, it completely backfired on Sega and instead of encouraging people to work together it forced everyone to bring Scape Dolls and disregard the point of the penalty in the first place.

The penalty sucks; not because it makes things 'hard'. Like Grinding and Synthing, the whole system was so unforgiving that it destroyed its own purpose.

Removing the penalty entirely is the best possible option, in my opinion. There is still a 'penalty' in that your party needs to use their money to resurrect you and the overall inconvenience of doing so in the middle of a huge freaking melee. Any other penalty, even the smallest one, pretty much only encourages people to bring Scapes, since preventing death is impossible in certain situations.

Isn't it nice to have to actually work together to accomplish something, anyway?

[RedCoKid]

I leveled mine to 30 the night giresta was released. I've already used it twice during Firebreak because deaths don't count in Scorched Valley (we still got an S both times), but I didn't think this would apply to the regular missions, too.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RedCoKid on 2007-06-05 06:06 ]</font>

[Tekershee]

I'm still going to carry Scape Dolls because I can't be bothered to wait for people to revive me.

[Ravennittes]

This means that the HIVE will be fun again ^.^ .

[Alkaar]

Suicide runs in HIVE! W00T! ;p

[Ravennittes]

Aye, 'suicide' runs. I've got about 10 or 11 shots of Giresta on my rod, so try to die sparingly 'cause I'd rather not recharge all the time if you know what i mean...

[Alkaar]

Oh yeah... definitely... techers will need to start carrying around a bunch of grinded rods in their inventory for resurecting the dead, hehe.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-06-05 05:38, Reipard wrote:

I disagree. The current system was designed for the sole purpose of encouraging team play. However, it completely backfired on Sega and instead of encouraging people to work together it forced everyone to bring Scape Dolls and disregard the point of the penalty in the first place.

The penalty sucks; not because it makes things 'hard'. Like Grinding and Synthing, the whole system was so unforgiving that it destroyed its own purpose.

Removing the penalty entirely is the best possible option, in my opinion. There is still a 'penalty' in that your party needs to use their money to resurrect you and the overall inconvenience of doing so in the middle of a huge freaking melee. Any other penalty, even the smallest one, pretty much only encourages people to bring Scapes, since preventing death is impossible in certain situations.

Isn't it nice to have to actually work together to accomplish something, anyway?



I'm sorry, but 350 meseta out of 15,000 is not a penalty. That's if you even have to buy any, you find tons of them per run. Hell, you don't even need them on you, you can run out to the lobby and buy them as you need them. Selling the excess for profit.

Where I come from, you don't get a perfect exam score when you make a mistake.

[Sylpheed]

I really don't see why people want the death penalty to stay, i mean yea it may make missions more challenging by making people think on their feet and try not to die but having to carry scape dolls on yourself sureley defeats the validity of this point as people inevitably die and use scape dolls as a way out. So by removing the death penalty i don't think it will make the game any easier and people will most probably still carry scapes with them.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sylpheed on 2007-06-05 08:01 ]</font>

[JAFO22000]

How about "If you die, you drop your equipped weapon and all meseta." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Kylie]

!?

Yes! This was one of the main things I was waiting for with AOTI, and I'm so happy that they're adding it to PSU now. It really is lame to get a lower ranking because an NPC or someone you don't know dies in your party.

[Sylpheed]

On 2007-06-05 08:18, JAFO22000 wrote:
How about "If you die, you drop your equipped weapon and all meseta." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



We want to progress not regress http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sylpheed on 2007-06-05 08:28 ]</font>

[Alkaar]

On 2007-06-05 08:18, JAFO22000 wrote:
How about "If you die, you drop your equipped weapon and all meseta." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



You are so evil, lol.

[Shou]

On 2007-06-04 18:36, Dj_SkyEpic wrote:
Time to actually level it.
O..o Giresta

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dj_SkyEpic on 2007-06-04 18:37 ]</font>


Lol DJ i did see that and was wondering why you hadnt lvled it. YAY i got it to 21 ASA i got it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif woot now its uberusefull. lol i iused ti say "YOU HAVE JUST BEEN GIRESTAED!" everytime i got to use it because it was so rare. thats REALLY good news thanks SONIC TEAM!! Hip Hip Hooray!


Oh yeah that also reminds me of the time i was paryting with Cherry and a few other peopple In Hive 2 S and she had everyone drop their scapedolls so that she could use giretsa and it would feel more like PSO http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shou on 2007-06-05 08:49 ]</font>

[ShinAnt]

On 2007-06-05 02:00, RyukiZero wrote:
What's GiResta? o_O?


*slams head on desk* WHAM!
Okay...wait it's still there.
*slams head again*

[ZeldaSerenade]

I have a feeling we'll eventually start seeing "Giresta or GTFO" parties...

[chibiLegolas]

Being a Challendge mode fan of PSO days, I enjoyed the penalties of death as it stands now on paper. But after actually playing like this for 1/2 a year, seeing ppl get booted, waste $, etc. I think it's best to remove it. Remember, a good challenge has it's place and should NOT be enforced all the time. It does kill the fun factor after a while.

But don't forget, there'll still be special events and missons where death penalties DO count. *cough* Bruce *cough*
Challenge modes will slowly come back in other fashions, I"m sure. But for now, I'd like to just have a lighter mood game for all and not take things so seriously ALL the time, no? If you wanted to, there's always Bruce or story mode for now.
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

And yes, this WILL make HIVE runs fun! Woo-hoo! Time to meet Falkis (or whatever his name is now) again!
And when's the LAST time you've seen your ENTIRE 6 party team desimated on the floor all together, after using up all moons (or finding out ppl forgot to stock them)? I kinda miss the red screan of death and laughing it off while everyone else is dead along with you. Coupled with talking shyt to the mobs hovering above your corpse and talks of vengence after we come back from the hospital/lobby.
Come on, that's priceless...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-06-05 09:15 ]</font>

[Niered]

Personally, Id like them to keep both systems.

Basically, for ranks A-C youd have the "no death penalty unless you warp back to lobby" rule. For ranks S-S2 though, youd have the "Die without scape, and your fucked." rule. This way youd still need a good amount of skill.

[pikachief]

On 2007-06-05 09:12, chibiLegolas wrote:

And yes, this WILL make HIVE runs fun! Woo-hoo! Time to meet Falkis (or whatever his name is now) again!


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-06-05 09:15 ]</font>


but hive runs are already fun with a good party http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif u should only need 5 scapes (at the most) for that run http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Garnet_Moon]

Magashi has died how many times and his nuke still went off? I'd say he S-Ranked that.

Death Penalties. Magashi doesn't need them. Neither do we.

[New_One]

ahhhhh, I can see the player shop ads now.

"Scape Dolls 4000 500"

[fumatanera]

On 2007-06-05 08:18, JAFO22000 wrote:
How about "If you die, you drop your equipped weapon and all meseta." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



classic

[Dhylec]

Guys, that was just unacceptable. I had remove a bunch of posts to clean this up.
Those who derailed or helped spamming this topic received a verbal warning. Spamming & having fun hijacking topics are in FKL, not here.

[Reipard]

I'm sorry, but 350 meseta out of 15,000 is not a penalty. That's if you even have to buy any, you find tons of them per run. Hell, you don't even need them on you, you can run out to the lobby and buy them as you need them. Selling the excess for profit.

Where I come from, you don't get a perfect exam score when you make a mistake.

Where I come from, a C doesn't mean you don't get any credit at all either. It's not fun to struggle through a mission and then render the whole reward moot just because people ended up dying, whether it be due to neglect or a simple fluke (which can and does happen). If you think it's fun, then more power to you. But I disagree.

[Esufer]

I don't want this to happen.

I want my rewards to be rewarding.

Not just like "well done! you died 97 times but ressed!"

[Sychosis]

Hmm? I think you don't quite understand my viewpoint. If you re-read my second post, I made it very clear that I do not support the current system entirely, nor this proposed one entirely. I would rather see a middle of the road system in place. One that does not penalize the team for a single person's mistake, but does not make the game a cake walk either.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sychosis on 2007-06-05 11:18 ]</font>

[Esufer]

It says at the end of the mission "individual score"

Then why am I ranked on my groups failings?

I want people that aren't that good to have to be forced to get better, this Giresta system will REALLY encourage powerlevelling.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2007-06-05 08:18, JAFO22000 wrote:
How about "If you die, you drop your equipped weapon and all meseta." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


MY DEMON STAFF! NO! NO, NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

*kills self to get rid of the nightmares*

;-;

[Esufer]

On 2007-06-05 11:18, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2007-06-05 08:18, JAFO22000 wrote:
How about "If you die, you drop your equipped weapon and all meseta." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


MY DEMON STAFF! NO! NO, NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

*kills self to get rid of the nightmares*

;-;



*takes your weapon and meseta when you die*

=D

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2007-06-05 11:19, Esufer wrote:

On 2007-06-05 11:18, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2007-06-05 08:18, JAFO22000 wrote:
How about "If you die, you drop your equipped weapon and all meseta." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


MY DEMON STAFF! NO! NO, NOOOOOOO!!!!!!

*kills self to get rid of the nightmares*

;-;



*takes your weapon and meseta when you die*

=D


You joined the PC side just to loot my corpse? You devil! Demon! Monster!

Wait. If that works... *kills self a bunch of times and drops random stuff*

>.>

[VanHalen]

On 2007-06-05 08:18, JAFO22000 wrote:
How about "If you die, you drop your equipped weapon and all meseta." http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif




I like this penalty better, this will teach peeps not to die!

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k184/Plissken_01/StayAlive.jpg

Seriously, I like the no penalty thing kind of. It will put less stress on people partying.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2007-06-05 11:35 ]</font>

[Almighty_Envy]

Someone make a body suit that gives you an electric shock if you get hit.

[Tykwa]

No Giresta?, I wouldn't use Scape Dolls, too expensive as long as someone is alive just use moons.

[Garnet_Moon]

This new info changes nothing. If people die more than usual, then I will boot them. I encourage everyone else to do so as well. If we let this go unpunished then they will abuse the system and something will change that maybe none of us will like, instead of being split down the middle as it is now.

Support skillful gamers. Boot the disposable soldiers.

They'll learn to revert back to paying attention while playing instead of being lazy, or they can solo for all I care.

[ShineOnline]

If they want to remove the death penalty, they should implement a no-death bonus. I'd set it up this way:
100% kills w/ deaths: A-rank, but with the same rewards given currently to S-rank.
100% kills w/o dying: true S-rank, same rewards as current S-rank PLUS a pa frag and maybe some extra meseta.

[ShineOnline]

Another option is to go with the tried and true practice of losing xp when you die. That really gets people to pay attention, and keeps people from going where they're not strong enough to survive.

[F-Gattaca]

Shine, you pretty much described the current system with your initial post. You can get 100% kills but if someone dies you wind up with A-rank or worse (depending on how many deaths overall).

Honestly, changing the system to only penalize for deaths that require returning to the lobby is a good thing.

I find it funny because some of the same people who gripe about PSU not having that PSO magic complain about a change to the system that essentially brings PSU's mechanics a little closer to those of PSO.

[danny_o]

NO LOSING XP! HOW DARE YOU SAY SUCH A THING! AHHH!

...maybe...lose some of your type's MP? Like you slide back slightly from being at level 10 forte-whatever?

That losing xp business was no fun in FFXI, I never want to see it again! They had a xp penalty system in EQ2, where you have a slight deficit to work through for about 5% of your xp for that level, but you didn't slide backwards or lose your level. You just had to dig yourself out of a hole, and if you didn't play for a few hours/days the deficit would be slowly taken away. The hours/days thing depends on how often you die though.

[Stezan]

I think that with this, ST should:

-Stop selling Scape Dolls at NPCs, making having them an asset to a party in situations where it is easier to have a scape doll revive rather than another person.

-maybe Implement some other type of loss for dying even when revived(I dont know what but something)

-Lower the number of Moon atomizers a person can carry.

-Raise the price for moon atomizers

[Kylie]

On 2007-06-05 12:59, Stezan wrote:
I think that with this, ST should:

-(1)Stop selling Scape Dolls at NPCs, making having them an asset to a party in situations where it is easier to have a scape doll revive rather than another person.

-(2)maybe Implement some other type of loss for dying even when revived(I dont know what but something)

-(3)Lower the number of Moon atomizers a person can carry.

-(4)Raise the price for moon atomizers


(1)I honestly would be okay with removing them completely.

(2) I think the best option would be to have deaths count but only your deaths count against. No more of this BS where an NPC or stranger can make you lose fragments / MP. Maybe that's too much to ask for though. >_>

(3)Ten seems like the perfect amount to me. Not sure why... but maybe it should be less, considering that if you have six party members, that's sixty deaths. Hm, maybe five would be alright.

(4)Hm, good idea. Probably at least to 500.

[ShineOnline]

On 2007-06-05 12:11, F-Gattaca wrote:
Shine, you pretty much described the current system with your initial post. You can get 100% kills but if someone dies you wind up with A-rank or worse (depending on how many deaths overall).

Honestly, changing the system to only penalize for deaths that require returning to the lobby is a good thing.

I find it funny because some of the same people who gripe about PSU not having that PSO magic complain about a change to the system that essentially brings PSU's mechanics a little closer to those of PSO.



I guess what I was trying to get across was just a slightly smaller difference between A and S ranks. Currently, the rewards difference between ranks is too high IMO, especially when it comes to MP since this is the only way to accrue them.

[Gen2000]

On 2007-06-05 11:11, Esufer wrote:
I want my rewards to be rewarding.

Not just like "well done! you died 97 times but ressed!"



Removing the death penalty and reading the complaints to slow down S2 enemies in AoI....it seems as though people just want no effort at all in this game. I'm down for more casual friendly but not braindead.

Also if you boot a dead person or the dead person quickly go to lobby and quit party does that revert your rank back or it's still lower? I mean having to Moon then boot is no problem if people think dying 50 times a mission while screaming "Res plz" is cool but this come also mean a comeback of players who die on purpose just to ruin Sranks. "Hm, I don't like this party, how about I die then quit! Kekekeke!".




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gen2000 on 2007-06-05 14:02 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

*shoots the people who want xp loss* After seeing what that shit did to PSOBBJP and your chances for getting even a shitty party for a Tower run because nobody wanted to take the risk in learning it... Or even doing Seabed... >_< People wouldn't do them because you lost way too much exp if you died and if you were a decent level you'd lose enough to have to go do a couple of TTFs to make it up. It made people not go do things that were actually fun because there was, of course, a certain risk involved - Tower had all three Mericarol variants, which will insta-kill you if their projectiles hit on Ult, period. Del Lillies spat high-level Megid that had a really good chance of taking you out. Ill Gills were nasty and could take you down before you knew it if one got on you. Epsilon could take you down easily. Take some time, learn the map and it was great fun, bring 3 RAs and a FO and go to town. But nobody wanted to take that time on PSOBB because it was too much of a penalty. And God forbid you suggest dropping back a level to VHard to run it a couple of times to teach people what to do so they won't die on Ult... *sigh*

You know, I never had a problem with PSOGC's 'penalty' and never had issues with it. You died, either to stray Megid or Delbiters or general WTFness and everybody loled and someone revived you. Or if nobody had Moons or Reverser you just went back to P2, called for a pipe, and shrugged off the 999999 meseta you just lost because meseta was worthless in PSO. XD I guess it wasn't 'hardcore' enough, but fuck that. Not everybody likes or wants hardcore.

Pretty much, the people who care will still put in an effort to become good anyway and will ascend to the point of at least not sucking. The people who don't care never will learn, period, so why penalize the people who are decent players but still got struck down by a random Megid?

Oh, and for the love of god, nobody start confusing 'Insta-kill' with 'challenge' again. XP

[JAFO22000]

Oh yeah, don't forget to feed your mag Star Atomizers after you get revived!

[Yoshiflash]

anyone know about NPCs yet. If you rez them do you still lose rank. I think that should have been done long before no death penalty from party members was.

[Tita]

hmm, that's cool i guess....
i kinda liked the pressure of staying alive in psu. upped the ante a bit.

but laughing in the face of megid is going to be a nice change of pace.

omg its sori-senba everywhere time! ajflsdkjfalksjdfkljasdfjlk;ajsdkf

[Ryo_Hayasa]

What about NPCs? Do their Deaths count now?

[SolomonGrundy]

As long as there is the abundance of megids, (everywhere but moatoob, where death comes in a more direct manner), then the death without scape doll penalty is pretty extreme. megids penetrates, does damage, AND has the chance to insta-kill.

Sychosis, I don't necessarily agree with your idea of peanalizing just the person who died. That penalizes newer players MORE (which disincentivises them from playing, not a good thing).

[Powder Keg]

On 2007-06-05 11:14, Sychosis wrote:
Hmm? I think you don't quite understand my viewpoint. If you re-read my second post, I made it very clear that I do not support the current system entirely, nor this proposed one entirely. I would rather see a middle of the road system in place. One that does not penalize the team for a single person's mistake, but does not make the game a cake walk either.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sychosis on 2007-06-05 11:18 ]</font>

One of the first things I said when I started playing this was the individual should be penalized for death without a scape, not the team. I think that would work better. But I'll take this too...


How about "If you die, you drop your equipped weapon and all meseta."
Ugh, don't remind me. Although, I do have some very funny memories when my friends and I bumped into some players who died with a hacked weapon...


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Artea on 2007-06-05 16:12 ]</font>

[XenithFlare]

On 2007-06-05 09:36, New_One wrote:
ahhhhh, I can see the player shop ads now.

"Scape Dolls 10000 500"



*Fix'd

[Reipard]

Hmm? I think you don't quite understand my viewpoint. If you re-read my second post, I made it very clear that I do not support the current system entirely, nor this proposed one entirely. I would rather see a middle of the road system in place. One that does not penalize the team for a single person's mistake, but does not make the game a cake walk either.

Thing is, I don't think either system affects the difficulty entirely. The benefits of a no penalty system are that healing and resurrection are actually valued; which makes support classes more valuable. You have to admit, people don't like dying regardless of whether or not there is a penalty.

As I said, all the current system did was force people to buy Scapes so they don't lose rank. The only difference here would be that nobody would buy Scapes as much and instead, more people would work together and res eachother. The end result would be basically the same, just with less aggravation and tedium; the 'difficulty' remains the same either way.

This new info changes nothing. If people die more than usual, then I will boot them. I encourage everyone else to do so as well. If we let this go unpunished then they will abuse the system and something will change that maybe none of us will like, instead of being split down the middle as it is now.

What exactly would people be abusing? If someone isn't pulling their weight, then I am all for booting them- but booting people just because they die a lot is unnecessary.

You can expect people to pull their weight and not be pointlessly hostile. I hate hostile communities. They don't make for fun games.

[Flwl3ssCowboy]

On 2007-06-04 18:46, Esufer wrote:

On 2007-06-04 18:36, Sychosis wrote:
Needing to actually pay attention while playing was nice while it lasted.


Time to go afk in bosses!



Time to SUICIDE in bosses!

[AzureBlaze]

This sort of makes sense with ST's philosophies.

Think about what is useless now?
Partner Machines
NPCS
Moon
MoonX
Giresta

By changing 1 thing they can activate 5 things.
Their biggies are the NPCs and PMs that everyone pretty much ignores right now. Why are you going to bring in their moronic AI to stand in flames and waste your star atoms? The only people who could bring them were FO's...(resta the pm) who didn't really need them anyway except as meat shields/marginal extra damage. If you needed a PM as like a fortefighter because it healed you, heaven forbid you go anywhere that might toss megid and hit the the thing. Plus, you ALWAYS had to boot at boss! It was just too easy for them to stand somewhere wrong and die.

ST worked hard (prob) to add in these guys, only to get them ignored. They also seem to like for everyone to use everything in the game (even if you didn't really want to) so this change makes some sense in their point of view.

As for player skills...
If they wanted to, they could just make NPC deaths not count EVER, and penalize on an individual basis with PCs. Like if you die/no doll, the party still gets S but you get A instead...like if you join late. They still do good, but you're minus the time/grade.

Spazzy doofuses are always going to die, regardless. Now they will just end up with more money--and so will everyone else. I would much prefer the courtesy of using a moon on someone rather than having them waste their money on a doll. There's enough slots in that menu to keep one (esp if star atom/photon eraser/monomate is not kept)

From watching through all other PSOs but BB, the only thing that really ever axed anyone's skillz/general population were those perm-invinc. mags.

Personally, I'm not all gung-ho against this change because I've wasted so much money on dolls for stupid freak accidents or I get megidded while trying to sol-atomize someone on ice.

[F-Gattaca]

*Awards AzureBlase with a Burzaioh*

That's almost my exact feelings on the issue. Nerfing the need for scape dolls brings some usefulness back to quite a few other parts of the game that've been left out otherwise. Which, by the way, I never understood why NPC/PM deaths count against the party when they have an endless amount of their own scape dolls.

Reminds me of the time when we brought Hyuga Right to a De Ragan BBQ last year; just as we complimented him on his ability to stay alive, he got a full load of De Ragan's breath, screamed "My beautiful face!" and died.

Sniff punted him out of the party promptly afterwards.

Speaking of pointless decreases in rank, why are people just now upset about the scape doll nerf giving griefers the possibility of intentionally screwing the S-rank for the rest of the party? A griefer could barge into a party, get himself killed, return to lobby and leave with a snide remark even now, guys.


I guess what I was trying to get across was just a slightly smaller difference between A and S ranks. Currently, the rewards difference between ranks is too high IMO, especially when it comes to MP since this is the only way to accrue them.


Oh, I see.

... Y'know, when you put it that way, what if you were awareded items other than PA fragments for S-ranking a mission, like in Story Mode or Extra Mode? Though I guess it'd have to be at a low random chance, otherwise any items that would be worth it would wind up all over the server ...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-Gattaca on 2007-06-05 19:03 ]</font>

[THERAPIST]

Here's something I'd like to see next time I become "incapacitated" ...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1435/532513762_c927465fc9_o.jpg

Yeah I suck at MSPaint

[Reginaldo]

Not gonna lie, but I'm gonna carry 10 scapes anyway because waiting to be revived on the rare occasion that I do die is just more inconvenient then anything. I'll always have a stack of Moon X's on me though. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[FUFME]

I think I will get this Tech but Im not going to care about Leveling it.

160PP ?? WOW and I bet it's gonna take hella long to LV it to 31.

LOL, many of the people I play with want Give To Finder so they can find their own Dimate and Trimates

[Zorafim]

I'm glad this change is finally taking place. Deaths come so easily, due to the fact that many attacks simply cannot be avoided. It makes no sense to penalize you for something you cannot prevent. This system works alot better for me, since there is still a harsh penalty if everyone ends up dieing before the first person can be revived, and that people will pay more attention now that they won't be insta-revived (you can't say you're going to have scapes after this).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zorafim on 2007-06-06 16:23 ]</font>

[Serephim]

On 2007-06-04 18:46, EspioKaos wrote:

On 2007-06-04 18:36, Sychosis wrote:
Needing to actually pay attention while playing was nice while it lasted.

Funny. That's the exact same thing I remember hearing about people who always had a full inventory of Scape Dolls.


Thank you, i was just about to say that.


You people Bitch about everything.

Sonic Team can never win.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-06-06 16:38 ]</font>

[Soukosa]

On 2007-06-06 16:22, Zorafim wrote:
Deaths come so easily, due to the fact that many attacks simply cannot be avoided.

Many attacks are blockable by EVP or avoided by simply stepping out the way http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[F-Gattaca]

Don't get TOO worked up about it, Serephim. It's a mainstay of all MMO communities. I've seen the same thing, the same unsatisfied heckling, in practically every MMO I've played. Heck, most everyone has a mild gripe about one thing or another in an MMO as it is--but there's always a subdivision of the player base that is a master of bashing the dev team over everything and threatening to leave for, say, World of Warcraft or something.

No dev team who builds their online world is going to win the war of satisfaction. They'll always have to put up with the snide wit of the playerbase, whether it is well-deserved or not.

[Esufer]

On 2007-06-06 16:22, Zorafim wrote:
Deaths come so easily, due to freaking dambarta.



Fixed!

[Freshellent]

I'm awful glad to hear this. It should have been this way to begin with,though I think I understand what they we're going for. Maybe if they didn't cost so much I wouldn't worry about it.

I would say though,I wish hitboxes were adjusted in this game. Say,when you use a PA that lets you leave the ground,and attack this is ground based,shouldn't hit you. Say for example for some genius reason you use Gravity Dance on a Dolva,and it does that stomp, right as that last hit on the PA goes,your leap into the air.When your in the air,the stomp should NOT have "hit" your standing hitbox. Your in the air! I'll deal with it eitherway,you'd just think that if you did certain things it would give you a bit more leeway.

[WaveofBabies]

luckily, with a /quick unit you can get it to 21 in a little over an hour

[Calibur]

noobs will find a way to screw the ranks....

probably going back to town or something...

[StanleyPain]

Yes, because new players don't want to get ahead or advance AT ALL. They just do things to specifically hurt you.
*rolls eyes*

It's just a game, people. Users will make mistakes. So, tell them why it's a mistake, help them through it, and move on, or you're just making the problem worse and either driving players away from solid co-op play or just discouraging new players period. So, you're really just hurting the community.

[Stezan]

With this change, if scape dolls were no longer sold at NPCs, it would even make them feel more valuable. You wouldnt be dissappointed in receiving the [B]Scape Doll, Omega Acid, or actual Scape Doll.

[Kylie]

On 2007-06-06 16:45, F-Gattaca wrote:
Don't get TOO worked up about it, Serephim. It's a mainstay of all MMO communities. I've seen the same thing, the same unsatisfied heckling, in practically every MMO I've played. Heck, most everyone has a mild gripe about one thing or another in an MMO as it is--but there's always a subdivision of the player base that is a master of bashing the dev team over everything and threatening to leave for, say, World of Warcraft or something.

No dev team who builds their online world is going to win the war of satisfaction. They'll always have to put up with the snide wit of the playerbase, whether it is well-deserved or not.


I agree. I've seen complaints on The Sims Online, Resident Evil Outbreak, Monster Hunter, and now PSU. *shrug* It does do some good since the creators know what a majority of the members want.

[JAFO22000]

What is the challenge in getting an S rank now? It's like Little League these days, where every kid on every team gets a trophy. NO! Only the winners should get the trophies, the rest should learn that losing is a part of life and this is how you deal with it and if you want that trophy, you'd better work harder for it next year.

How can a party NOT get an S rank? As long as nobody returns to city after they die, it'd be more of a feat to not s rank a mission. Hell, why even rank missions anymore? Just give everyone the same completion bonus at the end.

I can see how this would make things better for the casual player who'd rather roleplay their character and buy the next set of clothes because that is what is important to them, but what about those of us who play games for a challenge? I mean, where is the fun if you can die as much as you want? Don't you see how this will be abused? Everyone will just rush in with no want nor need for strategy because dying makes no difference.

This is "God mode" people!! You have now become invincible! There is no need for any beast mode except the power one. Why? Because it doesn't matter if you die! No need to stand away from that Jarba and shoot from a distance. Why? Because it doesn't matter if you die! No need for Resta or Reverser. Why? Because it doesn't matter if you die!

Play how you want now kids! Run into that pack of 8 level 100 Volfus with a 50% lightning armor. Don't have to worry about dodging megid anymore! Hell, don't have to worry about dodging ANYTHING anymore!!!!

It's OK Johnny, even though you went 2 for 160 at the plate this season and made 67 errors in the field and your team finished dead last, here is your trophy: the same one that the champions who practiced hard and played hard received. You're a winner just like them!!!!!!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JAFO22000 on 2007-06-07 09:55 ]</font>

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-06-07 09:55, JAFO22000 wrote:
What is the challenge in getting an S rank now? It's like Little League these days, where every kid on every team gets a trophy. NO! Only the winners should get the trophies, the rest should learn that losing is a part of life and this is how you deal with it and if you want that trophy, you'd better work harder for it next year.

You know, I could spend my time refuting JAFO's post and the kind of viewpoint it champions, but I already found someone who did it.


On 2007-01-12 23:59, Beige quoted:
True hardcore gamers will NEVER get what they want. They all want a game that is so difficult, frustrating, and miserable to play because they consider themselves above the normal gamers. No matter what game developers do, the hardcore "community" will complain that it is not hard enough, too carebear, too easy, too "hand it to you", too dumbed down. The smallest percentage of today's gamer population does the most complaining. Only an independently rich game developer could make and sustain a game that might give the hardcore folks what they want. They could not sustain the game with subscriptions because there would be too few people playing it. Sigil would be better off if all the hardcore elites just fould another place to do their complaining.

It was the same with EQ2. All kinds of praise until the beta phase, then complain, complain, complain. Then the complainers came to Vanguard, and here we go again. A never ending cycle.

Hardcore elite gamers don't even play games. They just play the forums, proclaiming their narrow views and putting down anyone who plays games that they don't like. They have signatures that list an arms length of played games and maxed characters. Soon, they will be listing the numerous forums they have "played" as accomplishments, too.

Get a life....get a reality check....get bent.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-Gattaca on 2007-06-07 10:44 ]</font>

[chibiLegolas]

On 2007-06-06 22:58, Stezan wrote:
With this change, if scape dolls were no longer sold at NPCs, it would even make them feel more valuable. You wouldnt be dissappointed in receiving the [B]Scape Doll, Omega Acid, or actual Scape Doll.



That's a real good point. Making scapedolls less common with this new death penalty rule should go hand in hand.

[Kinako78]

Now I gotta get Giresta somehow.

[akratic]

On 2007-06-07 10:38, F-Gattaca wrote:

On 2007-06-07 09:55, JAFO22000 wrote:
What is the challenge in getting an S rank now? It's like Little League these days, where every kid on every team gets a trophy. NO! Only the winners should get the trophies, the rest should learn that losing is a part of life and this is how you deal with it and if you want that trophy, you'd better work harder for it next year.

You know, I could spend my time refuting JAFO's post and the kind of viewpoint it champions, but I already found someone who did it.


On 2007-01-12 23:59, Beige quoted:
True hardcore gamers will NEVER get what they want. They all want a game that is so difficult, frustrating, and miserable to play because they consider themselves above the normal gamers. No matter what game developers do, the hardcore "community" will complain that it is not hard enough, too carebear, too easy, too "hand it to you", too dumbed down. The smallest percentage of today's gamer population does the most complaining. Only an independently rich game developer could make and sustain a game that might give the hardcore folks what they want. They could not sustain the game with subscriptions because there would be too few people playing it. Sigil would be better off if all the hardcore elites just fould another place to do their complaining.

It was the same with EQ2. All kinds of praise until the beta phase, then complain, complain, complain. Then the complainers came to Vanguard, and here we go again. A never ending cycle.

Hardcore elite gamers don't even play games. They just play the forums, proclaiming their narrow views and putting down anyone who plays games that they don't like. They have signatures that list an arms length of played games and maxed characters. Soon, they will be listing the numerous forums they have "played" as accomplishments, too.

Get a life....get a reality check....get bent.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-Gattaca on 2007-06-07 10:44 ]</font>
Another thing, because I totally agree with you, is that I can't stand pools with deep ends. I mean, some people can't swim, and all these assholes who can and who think they are so much better than the rest of us think that they should be able to have fun.

Kiddie pools FTW!

Hardcore elitist games are made of skill and fail.

And why the fuck can't my level 28 human protranser use rods?!

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-06-07 10:38, F-Gattaca wrote:

On 2007-06-07 09:55, JAFO22000 wrote:
What is the challenge in getting an S rank now? It's like Little League these days, where every kid on every team gets a trophy. NO! Only the winners should get the trophies, the rest should learn that losing is a part of life and this is how you deal with it and if you want that trophy, you'd better work harder for it next year.

You know, I could spend my time refuting JAFO's post and the kind of viewoint it champions, but I know a guy (http://beige.livejournal.com/216843.html) who did it much much better.


On 2007-01-12 23:59, Beige wrote:
True hardcore gamers will NEVER get what they want. They all want a game that is so difficult, frustrating, and miserable to play because they consider themselves above the normal gamers. No matter what game developers do, the hardcore "community" will complain that it is not hard enough, too carebear, too easy, too "hand it to you", too dumbed down. The smallest percentage of today's gamer population does the most complaining. Only an independently rich game developer could make and sustain a game that might give the hardcore folks what they want. They could not sustain the game with subscriptions because there would be too few people playing it. Sigil would be better off if all the hardcore elites just fould another place to do their complaining.

It was the same with EQ2. All kinds of praise until the beta phase, then complain, complain, complain. Then the complainers came to Vanguard, and here we go again. A never ending cycle.

Hardcore elite gamers don't even play games. They just play the forums, proclaiming their narrow views and putting down anyone who plays games that they don't like. They have signatures that list an arms length of played games and maxed characters. Soon, they will be listing the numerous forums they have "played" as accomplishments, too.

Get a life....get a reality check....get bent.




So, it's either one extreme or the other huh? Just because I want a little challenge, all of the sudden I'm grouped in with the asshats to which this poster was referring? This reply is for the high end extreme player who "have signatures that list an arms length of played games and maxed characters."

I have none of this nor am I one of these players. What I do like is a certain level of challenge in the games I play .

Just because I feel that this move is taking most of the challenge away from the game and changing the way this game is going to be played does NOT qualify me for the group you have listed above, by quoting someone else's words no less.

Excuse me for finding fun in having a challenge presented to me that I have to overcome (i.e. not dying to receive an S rank). I did not think that I would be mistaken for one of the douches as listed in your reply, but if it does then so be it.

[MSAksion]

PSU is not a HARDCORE MMO. Its more for the casual console style player who is used to moving and dodging rather than just POINT AND CLICK.

BTW - the more HARDCORE MMO that require POINT and CLICK just uttterly BORE me. At least PSU is a GAME not a CLICKING simulation.

In PSU you actually have to have some skill but even the best lvl 80's with maxed out PAs... its that PURPLE ball of death we call MEGID that if it touches your Little toe you die - that's not skill that's just cheap!

But Scape dolls at 5000 are NOT cheap and beginning players getting yelled at for not affording 50,000 worth of Dolls when they're lvl 10 first drive away new players, and number 2 they have jus started and thus 50,000 is a fortune.

I am glad they are getting rid of the penalty as Moon Atomizers are just totally useless ATM

[Esufer]

On 2007-06-07 11:06, MSAksion wrote:
At least PSU is a GAME not a CLICKING simulation.


Hey hey hey, let's not be rash now.

In games like WoW and Guild Wars, it's not a clicking simulation, you're ACTUALLY clicking in real time!

Coleslawesome!

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-06-07 10:49, akratic wrote:
Another thing, because I totally agree with you, is that I can't stand pools with deep ends. I mean, some people can't swim, and all these assholes who can and who think they are so much better than the rest of us think that they should be able to have fun.

Kiddie pools FTW!

Hardcore elitist games are made of skill and fail.

And why the fuck can't my level 28 human protranser use rods?!



lol! Gib easy mode NAO!!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JAFO22000 on 2007-06-07 11:23 ]</font>

[F-Gattaca]

That's right, folks, you too can be like akratic and JAFO! You can completely pwn anyone who's not in line with your views! Just write a snarky post that pretends to agree with them!

Oh wait. No, it only comes off as obnoxious and impotent. Oops!


MSAksion wrote:
In PSU you actually have to have some skill but even the best lvl 80's with maxed out PAs... its that PURPLE ball of death we call MEGID that if it touches your Little toe you die - that's not skill that's just cheap!

Right. When you can lose ranks to something like that, there's little point in snarking and angsting over SEGA nerfing the need for scape dolls.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-Gattaca on 2007-06-07 11:30 ]</font>

[Serephim]

On 2007-06-07 09:55, JAFO22000 wrote:
What is the challenge in getting an S rank now? It's like Little League these days, where every kid on every team gets a trophy. NO! Only the winners should get the trophies, the rest should learn that losing is a part of life and this is how you deal with it and if you want that trophy, you'd better work harder for it next year.

How can a party NOT get an S rank? As long as nobody returns to city after they die, it'd be more of a feat to not s rank a mission. Hell, why even rank missions anymore? Just give everyone the same completion bonus at the end.

I can see how this would make things better for the casual player who'd rather roleplay their character and buy the next set of clothes because that is what is important to them, but what about those of us who play games for a challenge? I mean, where is the fun if you can die as much as you want? Don't you see how this will be abused? Everyone will just rush in with no want nor need for strategy because dying makes no difference.

This is "God mode" people!! You have now become invincible! There is no need for any beast mode except the power one. Why? Because it doesn't matter if you die! No need to stand away from that Jarba and shoot from a distance. Why? Because it doesn't matter if you die! No need for Resta or Reverser. Why? Because it doesn't matter if you die!

Play how you want now kids! Run into that pack of 8 level 100 Volfus with a 50% lightning armor. Don't have to worry about dodging megid anymore! Hell, don't have to worry about dodging ANYTHING anymore!!!!

It's OK Johnny, even though you went 2 for 160 at the plate this season and made 67 errors in the field and your team finished dead last, here is your trophy: the same one that the champions who practiced hard and played hard received. You're a winner just like them!!!!!!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JAFO22000 on 2007-06-07 09:55 ]</font>



JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

First you complain this game is less easier like PSO, now when it is you bitch.

You complain about Scape Dolls being required to S a mission, and now when they ARNT, you Bitch.

You complain about EVERYTHING, and when they make a move, you BITCH more.


You act like its still going to be Easy. If your plaing a quest full of lv 60 monsters and your lvl 70 complaining about its too easy to S rank it, then you need to be shot. Twice. They never said that dying doesnt hold penatlies anymore, they just said that it doesnt completely fail your S rank. Im sorry, but i found it stupid that we have Moon Automizers on the game, but after you get the chance to use them, the mission is already a failure.


Sonic Team is simply in process of trying to mold the game into a better system, a better system for ALL players, and your BITCHING about it..? Not everyone in the world is a "hardcore gamer". PSO was N O T a "hardcore gamer" game. PSU, also, is not a "hardcore gamer" game.

If you wished every game in the world was ment to be for "Hardcore no-life gamers", then you would be Head of familiar company named "Sony".

You would be Failing now. Hard Failing now.



Just think of it this way:

Everyone wants a game like PSO, well now you have it. PSO stages were fun regardless if you died 2301 times, because the payoff at the end was still what it was: Fun and Excitement. That, and enough EXP to half level him. Now, we dont have to worry about the little guy rolling with us just because he doesnt spend all fucking day with his shop open and spamming Firebreak missions to have 50,000 meseta to buy 10 Scapedolls. Not everyone has time like you.

Giresta, as ive heard, takes an enormous toll on the PP of your weapon. Im pretty sure Forces dont want to run around with you dying all the time, whoring a hole in their wallet because you keep dying for fun.
You diddnt have penetalies for dying on PSO, and no one died on purpose. Why the FUCK would you do it now?



Go die, please.







<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-06-07 11:36 ]</font>

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-06-07 11:06, MSAksion wrote:

In PSU you actually have to have some skill but even the best lvl 80's with maxed out PAs... its that PURPLE ball of death we call MEGID that if it touches your Little toe you die - that's not skill that's just cheap!



Why is Megid such a sour point with people? First off, Megid does not kill you everytime it hits you. Also, part of the skill of PSU is dodging Megid. When you see a creature that can shoot Megid, you have to be more careful and, *Gasp!*, change your strategy. Yes, I said it! You can't run up to every single creature in this game and spam PA's. But I guess it makes me a hardcore gaming elitest to say that. People should be able to do whatever they want, whenever they want and not be penalized for it. Just because you don't have the mindpower to devise a different way of approaching enemies, don't come crying that things are "too hard".

[Serephim]

Just shut the Fuck up.

Your argument is full of Me, More Me, My Wants, My Needs, and Failure.

You act like it takes a GENIUS to go behind something that shoots megid. If thats the case, why the HELL do we still get hit by it?

Most attacks from large enemies in this game come just too quick to ever be able to dodge it, unless you just stand away from it and fire at it all day, in which case you complete the mission too slow and (*GASP!?*) Fail an S-Rank.

Or, you could just play for fun, try to dodge it and stay alive, and take a fall every now and then. WITHOUT losing your S-rank.

Your a Hardcore gamer right? Dont you REALIZE that this system can account for MUCH harder missions? Instead of your S-rank depending on how much MESETA you have, it can depend on your TEAMWORK, which (*GASP, AGAIN?*) Is what PSU is all about. Now they can have missions in which your EXPECTED to get completely owned, in which case Teamwork is required to stay alive, and "Hardcore" retards like you can try to Solo it and NEVER succeed.



If you want HARDCORE, go play Devil May Cry 3, Dante Must Die mode. (Im sure you already have though.) Otherwise, Shut the fuck up.

[Esufer]

So.... who wants a nice cup of friendship tea? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[RadiantLegend]

Soloing Hive will give you a reason to fear megid.

Random mob shooting megid = no prob

Buffed mobs shooting megid + Teleporting Foie = ???

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-06-07 11:33, Serephim wrote:
Wow. OK:
[quote]
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

First you complain this game is less easier like PSO, now when it is you bitch.

You complain about Scape Dolls being required to S a mission, and now when they ARNT, you Bitch.

You complain about EVERYTHING, and when they make a move, you BITCH more.


When did I ever do any of this? Please point out where I complained that the game is "less easier" than PSO or that I bitched about Scape Dolls being required to S a mission?



You act like its still going to be Easy. If your plaing a quest full of lv 60 monsters and your lvl 70 complaining about its too easy to S rank it, then you need to be shot. Twice. They never said that dying doesnt hold penatlies anymore, they just said that it doesnt completely fail your S rank. Im sorry, but i found it stupid that we have Moon Automizers on the game, but after you get the chance to use them, the mission is already a failure.


I usually do the highest level my character can perfom, unless I'm helping other level. So now, what penalties will dying hold? AND how does a team fail an S rank now?



Sonic Team is simply in process of trying to mold the game into a better system, a better system for ALL players, and your BITCHING about it..? Not everyone in the world is a "hardcore gamer". PSO was N O T a "hardcore gamer" game. PSU, also, is not a "hardcore gamer" game.


It's not a better system for ALL players, now is it? I agree that this is not a "hardcore" game, but I am not a "hardcore" gamer either. Unless enjoying a semi-challenging game makes me "hardcore". Then I am.



If you wished every game in the world was ment to be for "Hardcore no-life gamers", then you would be Head of familiar company named "Sony".

You would be Failing now. Hard Failing now.


I don't even get what you're trying to convey here...



Just think of it this way:

Everyone wants a game like PSO, well now you have it. PSO stages were fun regardless if you died 2301 times, because the payoff at the end was still what it was: Fun and Excitement. That, and enough EXP to half level him. Now, we dont have to worry about the little guy rolling with us just because he doesnt spend all fucking day with his shop open and spamming Firebreak missions to have 50,000 meseta to buy 10 Scapedolls. Not everyone has time like you.


I don't want a game like PSO. I want PSU. Who is this "little guy rolling with us"? Again, I don't get this. Are you trying to say that the level of one's character will no longer be an issue because they will no longer need to have 10 scapes in their inventory? If so, I've never enforced a way of playing like that and don't judge people by their level. If you meet the requirement for the level then you can join my party. I've seen a level 56 character totally outplay level 80's before.



Giresta, as ive heard, takes an enormous toll on the PP of your weapon. Im pretty sure Forces dont want to run around with you dying all the time, whoring a hole in their wallet because you keep dying for fun.


I don't die for fun. And my main is a Force. With this comment, I suppose you are trying to convey that there will still be reasons to not die all the time, so people will still be careful. I tend to disagree, but we will certainly see how things are when this is introduced to us.



You diddnt have penetalies for dying on PSO, and no one died on purpose. Why the FUCK would you do it now?


There were penalties for dying on PSO. And I'm not saying people will die on purpose, just that they will be less cautious



Go die, please.



Just shut the Fuck up.

Your veiws intrigue me. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.


Your argument is full of Me, More Me, My Wants, My Needs, and Failure.


Why would I post about someone else's needs? They have keyboards and the means to open an account here. A forum is a place to voice your opinions.


You act like it takes a GENIUS to go behind something that shoots megid. If thats the case, why the HELL do we still get hit by it?


Silly goose, going behind them doesn't save you from Megid Slingers, unless it's the only one. If there is a group of them or if they are Jarbas with Dambarta, what you have to do is.....wait, you haven't figured it out yet, have you? I guess it does take a genius to avoid Megid.(?)



Most attacks from large enemies in this game come just too quick to ever be able to dodge it, unless you just stand away from it and fire at it all day, in which case you complete the mission too slow and (*GASP!?*) Fail an S-Rank.


Hey Hawking, you only fail a mission due to time constraints in Bruce's and the FB missions (and offline/online story modes) and last time I checked, neither of these missions have Megid creatures (yet!)


Or, you could just play for fun, try to dodge it and stay alive, and take a fall every now and then. WITHOUT losing your S-rank.

Have you picked your trophy up yet?


Your a Hardcore gamer right?

No.



Dont you REALIZE that this system can account for MUCH harder missions? Instead of your S-rank depending on how much MESETA you have, it can depend on your TEAMWORK, which (*GASP, AGAIN?*) Is what PSU is all about.


S ranking does not depend on how much meseta one has (I suppose you say that because then one would be able to afford all of those scapes "necessary" for an S rank). S ranking a mission depends on your ability to stay alive. And the current system does rely on teamwork. You need the gunners to inflict certain SE's on enemies, the hunters should try to absorb and deal out damage and the forces support, etc....If these things don't happen, you will start dying and using up those 10 "necessary" scape dolls.


Now they can have missions in which your EXPECTED to get completely owned, in which case Teamwork is required to stay alive, and "Hardcore" retards like you can try to Solo it and NEVER succeed.


Again, teamwork is always necessary for S-ranking a mission. I don't understand how you've gotten by with the current system without realizing this...unless you spend 8-9 scapes per mission, which is just truly outrageous...truly, truly, truly outrageous.



If you want HARDCORE, go play Devil May Cry 3, Dante Must Die mode. (Im sure you already have though.) Otherwise, Shut the fuck up.


I've never played any DMC game, therefore I guess I need to STFU, right?

[Zorafim]

Ah, PSOW. Where every good update turns into a flamewar.

[akratic]

On 2007-06-07 11:26, F-Gattaca wrote:
That's right, folks, you too can be like akratic and JAFO! You can completely pwn anyone who's not in line with your views! Just write a snarky post that pretends to agree with them!

Oh wait. No, it only comes off as obnoxious and impotent. Oops!


MSAksion wrote:
In PSU you actually have to have some skill but even the best lvl 80's with maxed out PAs... its that PURPLE ball of death we call MEGID that if it touches your Little toe you die - that's not skill that's just cheap!

Right. When you can lose ranks to something like that, there's little point in snarking and angsting over SEGA nerfing the need for scape dolls.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-Gattaca on 2007-06-07 11:30 ]</font>
You turned this into a "battle".

Look, I get it. You don't want there to be an imbalance in rewards for players who can avoid death and those who cannot. To defend this view you create a strawman called "hardcore gamer" and mock it. Well done.

Turnaround is fairplay. When you act like a dick, and get treated like one in return, don't be such a crybaby.

[Esufer]

FRIENDSHIP TEA, ANYONE!?

[akratic]

On 2007-06-07 11:43, Serephim wrote:
You act like it takes a GENIUS to go behind something that shoots megid. If thats the case, why the HELL do we still get hit by it?
Because you suck and are stupid. Sometimes it is just bad luck, and that's why you carry scapes.

By the by, are your parents out of town? Because someone needs to make sure you remember to take your meds, internet warrior. "Go die". Priceless. This is serious business, to be sure. Dude says he has concerns about the change, and a bunch of adhd pimple monkeys fly off the handle.

Go eat some more candy, nerds.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: akratic on 2007-06-07 13:23 ]</font>

[F-Gattaca]

I wasn't going to say anything further given that Serephim and JAFO are going at it, but hey, why not.

The problem with calling a guy on logical fallacies is that there has to be a fallacy in the first place. As much as JAFO can claim his post wasn't like that of a heckling hardcore gamer's, it almost perfectly matched up with what I quoted from Beige.

I know I'm not the only one who's made this observation. I'd like to think I'm not the nastiest about it either. At least, however, JAFO has attempted to defend his hardline position with something tanglible; you, akratic, are more or less his cheerleader squad, tossing in snarky mockeries of his opponents and claiming logical fallacies. You're doing nothing constructive.

[chibiLegolas]

On 2007-06-07 09:55, JAFO22000 wrote:
I can see how this would make things better for the casual player who'd rather roleplay their character and buy the next set of clothes because that is what is important to them, but what about those of us who play games for a challenge? I mean, where is the fun if you can die as much as you want? Don't you see how this will be abused? Everyone will just rush in with no want nor need for strategy because dying makes no difference.

Maybe this will make some ppl sloppy. I don't know about ppl going kamakaze style. But like I said before, there's a time and place for such challenges. Bruce and FB missions are prime examples. Want to enforce restrictions? Then simply post up a message stating "Scape free players or boot".

I'm a fan of C-mode, and love challenges. But not all the time. IMO, it wears you down over time and sucks the fun factor from you with you having to worry about loosing your S rank or what not. Or even worse, turn you into an elitest snob, be-little'n others who don't play the way you want them to play. (not that I'm pointing out anyone here. But I've seen C-moders turn nasty on new comers who want to learn the game/mission).

Part of the fun for a casual game is to laugh off certain player deaths as well. We don't want EVERYTHING to be so serious now do we?

True, we also don't want players to be dying right and left. But lets not forget that you can always boot said dead player (before they exit to lobby to demote your S rank). That's if they're abusing the new death system.
So team leaders, keep an eye out!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-06-07 13:42 ]</font>

[A2K]

*sigh*