Is this balanced right?

[Zorafim]

Now, I realize I should expect difficulty when fighting a group of enemies twenty levels higher than me. I know that I should expect difficulty from the newest area out, with the highest rewards. I know I shouldn't get everything in a platter, since that easily ruins the fun.
Now that being said, did I just use up all my remaining melee weapons on a small group of melee friendly mobs, and only manage to kill one?

[Soukosa]

You see that button next to the one with the circle? Yeah, the one with the X shape on it, it has a use too. Might want to try it out some time.

[l_Will_l]

lol.

[Dragwind]

On 2007-06-15 01:25, Sounomi wrote:
You see that button next to the one with the circle? Yeah, the one with the X shape on it, it has a use too. Might want to try it out some time.



Yeah, it works brilliantly at times. Especially with twin daggers >.>

Anyhow, even as a WT I don't have to drain out a weapon to kill a mob...I don't understand what you're complaining about this time.

[Nai_Calus]

I have to try to drain a melee weapon. >_> (Usually via spamming to get the PA on it levelled, which is why my FI goes through a dagger faster than my WT, Nai's Buten is maxed already, no need to overuse to level it) Guns I can drain if I'm using them exclusively. I seem to be unable to drain Elly's Mayrods, oddly enough. But you don't have a choice on using PP on guns/FO stuff.

Melee... Yeah, it's entirely possible to not spam PAs and still manage to kill things. >_> Unless you're doing such terrible damage that you need a PA to do damage at all, in which case you probably shouldn't be there yet or should at least have a party. >_>

True, some weapons have truly god-awful normal combos(Swords, I'm looking at you), but a lot of them don't. Twin daggers, single daggers, sabers, even spears, all of these have useful normal combos. Surely you have at least one?

[DaRkWoLf30]

I don't even have to drain a weapon and I'm a FF, the normal attack button works fine on all classes.

[Ravennittes]

I'm a FT, hard to drain anything unless I'm using giresta lol.

[amtalx]

If you're soloing, you should expect to run out.

[Sekani]

I've drained twin sabers on groups of olgohmon and twin handguns on groups of tengoghs. It happens.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-06-15 04:14, Ian-KunX wrote:
True, some weapons have truly god-awful normal combos(Swords, I'm looking at you)

Quick: name another weapon that deals 3x3 hit combos with almost 800 base ATP...

Melee weapons can run out pretty fast if you're spamming PA's a lot. You need to do what you can to make 'em last. Save PA's for when you're hitting multiple targets. Anything that boosts damage will also make your PP go farther... better element %'s and eating Agatride for example.

[RegulusHikari]

Perhaps Zora is trying to point out that it took THAT many PA hits to eliminate a single enemy by herself? Thus the original question: Is this balanced right?

I'm a PA spammer myself, which is why I always carry around a full stock of charges. I'm just trying to figure out WHAT mob you're talking about, Jarba, Tengohg, or Kamatoze perhaps? I will agree that trying to solo packs of those is pretty ridiculous.

Going back to the question, I think that this game is balanced well with a 3-6 person party, but trying to solo lv 100+ monsters at this point is just plain difficult. Those Jarba take minutes to take down so I can't imagine being a FF, and packs of Go Vahra drain my HP as fast as megid, so I can't imagine being a WT or GT.

Late game is just not built for solo play, and and that makes sense, but not so much in the context of the game. The idea of rare hunting gets completely thrown out the window when most of the time your teaming and other people are getting what you want and not caring. :/

[McLaughlin]

On Fighgunner, my melee stuff runs out pretty fast (Half my equipment is 30% or higher Ice, so forgive me if I like to spam Assault Crush during Firebreak >_>). On Fortefighter, not so much. Most Firebreak enemies have an astonishing amount of HP though. The Shagreece in particular are just not fun.

[Jife_Jifremok]

So is PP convervation the *ONLY* reason to use normal melee attacks? Just how much crappier is the damage? I honestly can't remember since it's been so long since the last time I purposely used a normal attack.

[RegulusHikari]

Well personally I much prefer the 700-1000 damage of Dus Daggas to the 300 of a normal hit (of course we're speaking 26% ice on all fire monsters http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif).

Normal attacks are still viable sources of damage, but I'm pretty sure that's not what the topic is about. XD

I'll use Twin Dagger, Twin Saber, Spear, and Double Saber normal attacks when I'm out, but typically not for anything else.

[JAFO22000]

Maybe you should level up before attempting this mission. You say that you understand that the game should not be a cakewalk, then you turn around and inquire about not being able to complete a mission that you probably meet the minimum requirement to run. You tried it, you weren't able to complete it, so level up before attempting it again. It's not a hard concept and a basic rule for any RPG. And it's not "imbalanced" just because it's way to hard for you now. In fact it's quite the opposite: It would be imbalanced if a low level character were able to get through a high level mission.

[McLaughlin]

On 2007-06-15 07:32, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
So is PP convervation the *ONLY* reason to use normal melee attacks? Just how much crappier is the damage? I honestly can't remember since it's been so long since the last time I purposely used a normal attack.



Well, I'll use my 50% Ice Heavy Twins as an example. Normal attacks (with Shifta) do 400-ish damage. Assault Crush (I only have the first two parts right now) will do 800+. It's pretty tempting to spam when you know you're doing less than half of the damage you could be doing.

[Ravennittes]

I've done over 3000 damage in one hit. However soloing is utterly out of the question for me or any other FT really. Our health just doesn't stand up to a hit or two lol.

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-06-15 07:32, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
So is PP convervation the *ONLY* reason to use normal melee attacks? Just how much crappier is the damage? I honestly can't remember since it's been so long since the last time I purposely used a normal attack.



Well, if PA's used no PP, I'm sure we all would spam them as they cause knock up/knock back/spread/etc. and do more damage/hit more creatures and are basically just all around better than normal attacks.

That being said, I don't only use regular attacks for PP conservation. I use them to gain aggro on a group of creatures so that I can hit the max amount of them when I do use the PA. If you just run into a group and spam a PA, the creatures may take off after that Ranger who is shooting them from far away, thus not maximizing your PA damage. Using your three hit normal combo to hit three different creatures BEFORE using your PA will cause them to stay around you and take their damage.

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-06-15 07:54, Ravennittes wrote:
I've done over 3000 damage in one hit. However soloing is utterly out of the question for me or any other FT really. Our health just doesn't stand up to a hit or two lol.



Your joking, right? Soloing is pretty easy as a FT for most missions.

[RedX]

On 2007-06-15 07:54, Ravennittes wrote:
I've done over 3000 damage in one hit. However soloing is utterly out of the question for me or any other FT really. Our health just doesn't stand up to a hit or two lol.



*cough*dambarta*cough*

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-06-15 07:32, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
So is PP convervation the *ONLY* reason to use normal melee attacks? Just how much crappier is the damage? I honestly can't remember since it's been so long since the last time I purposely used a normal attack.

The first hit or two in a normal combo will combo very quickly into a PA, throwing a couple normal attacks before going for blood should be a slight but noticable boost to DPS and/or PP efficiency. I generally beat away with normal moves if I'm against one monster and I'm waiting for a second to walk into range for my PA...

If I'm fighting solo, I'll use handgun and saber for taking out harder battles or sword for groups of enemies. The normal melee weapon swing is damaging enough that I feel ok using it (and handgun DOT's) for the majority of my damage. The PA's are situational, Rising Strike combos for self-defense, Tornado Break to prevent monsters from counter-attacking when they turn around on me, and Spinning Break for mopping up quickly once monsters are running out of health.

Compared to most PA's, normal hits are about 2/3 damage. Twin Sabers get insane ATP modifiers on their moves, so the regular attacks really look like crap in comparison to PA spam.

[CelestialBlade]

I don't think level 80+ monster mobs are meant to be soloed by anyone. My Guntecher will never run out of bullets in a party, but if I dare solo I'm normally having to use a Photon Charge or two. That isn't really a bad thing, but soloing takes forever and the EXP ends up being pretty slow. Even if you're just in it to better your own character, being in a party is still faster.

[pikachief]

On 2007-06-15 09:36, Typheros wrote:
I don't think level 80+ monster mobs are meant to be soloed by anyone. My Guntecher will never run out of bullets in a party, but if I dare solo I'm normally having to use a Photon Charge or two. That isn't really a bad thing, but soloing takes forever and the EXP ends up being pretty slow. Even if you're just in it to better your own character, being in a party is still faster.



Wat do u mean i solo S2's all the time!

Just take 10 scapes and 10 photon charges and you'll get an S even on Dulk Fakis!

unless your a techer, then your screwed http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Akaimizu]

Heh heh. No way I'm soloing Dulk Fakis. Not even as a level 70/10 Human Guntecher. Not even with all my G traps on me. (Darn Guntecher trap-type limitations) Well, unless I want to spend the hours and just spend meseta for no particularly good reason.

In a party, heck yeah, though. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-06-15 09:50 ]</font>

[pikachief]

Am I the only one who enjoys soloing dulk fakis?

well the joy of getting an S ranking alone on a mission that scares people away makes me feel like im good at the game http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Serephim]

On 2007-06-15 01:25, Sounomi wrote:
You see that button next to the one with the circle? Yeah, the one with the X shape on it, it has a use too. Might want to try it out some time.



XD

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-06-15 09:56, pikachief wrote:
Am I the only one who enjoys soloing dulk fakis?

well the joy of getting an S ranking alone on a mission that scares people away makes me feel like im good at the game http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



I solo'd the HIVE, on S as a fortefighter. I got a C though. 138 NPC deaths. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

21+ virus/fire crossbow should make any area soloable, except for *maybe* that mission on moatoob that is heaped with ranged resistant enemies.

[KiteWolfwood]

I can usually run a whole mission and only use up one weapon. Unless there are melee resistent mobs then it might eat up 2 or 3. But yeah normal attacks are something so super duper special that only melee weapons get them. FREE DAMAGE! No other weapon gets that. Range weapons have to use pp to do damage. Techs have to use pp to do damage. Anyway I think I sidetracked a little bit.

[Niloklives]

On 2007-06-15 07:20, RegulusHikari wrote:
Going back to the question, I think that this game is balanced well with a 3-6 person party, but trying to solo lvl 100+ monsters at this point is just plain difficult. Those Jarba take minutes to take down so I can't imagine being a FF, and packs of Go Vahra drain my HP as fast as megid, so I can't imagine being a WT or GT.

I melee lvl 105 go vahra as a GT. just a 16% ground shiratsuno and shunbu. it's so easy, it's wrong. but a lot of PAs are much more expensive and are much more spammable. makes it easy to drain them. but even then as a Figh, I have a 30% ice muktrand that I can use to kill off about 5-6 lvl 100 fire enemies by just spamming dus daggas. but what I tend to do is buten shurenzan and then hammer on whatever I'm trying to kill with my mech guns. enemies lv1 105 even gos down in seconds and I can clear almost a full block on my own having to switch out my mechs only once.

either way using normal attacks on S2 is absurd unless you have a way of downing your enemies. on C and B difficulty its a different game completely since you can easily stagger enemies with even normal attacks. on S2 that's not the case and even 1 on 1, you'll get beat on trying to normal combo anything bigger than a polty.

[ShineOnline]

I usually start off with knockdown/blowback PA, then follow up with a normal combo, and while they're getting up start the PA again. Knuckles are great for this, with really quick normal attacks and knockdown in the second part of the PA. Axes, too, with knockdown as the first part of the PA.

[BeastlyMike]

On 2007-06-15 05:13, Ravennittes wrote:
I'm a FT, hard to drain anything unless I'm using giresta lol.




What!? I always drain weapons! i have to use like 5 Photon charges every run! You must be holding back........

[CelestialBlade]

Soloing starts to not seem worth it if 10 Photon Charges and 10 Scape Dolls are required for just a single run.

I've always found that soloing lower rank missions does seem to rack up EXP faster, though. The HP gain monsters get between mission difficulty ranks seems far greater in magnitude than the EXP boost per kill, thus slowing down your overall EXP flow.

Then again, if you're in it just for the challenge, I do suppose soloing an S2 run is totally the way to go. In which case everything gets to meet my SE4 Burn Rifle (screw you, Traps).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Typheros on 2007-06-15 15:34 ]</font>

[Lonzell]

Maybe you drain your shit cause of the fact that, oh, you're only using the special, and soloin' missions meant to be carried out by multiple players? RAWR

[Garnet_Moon]

PA spamming is for noobs.