Rare Debate [Archive] - PSO-World.com

Korokodo13

Jun 17, 2007, 11:10 PM

On 2007-06-17 21:04, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2007-06-17 21:02, Umberger wrote:
I remember there was a thread here a while back "debunking the false claims of set in order". It said that when a rare falls, it's yours. If someone chooses not to pick it up, then they effectively skipped themselves. The order is assigned at the time of the drop, not when it's picked up.

If someone has evidence/a link to that thread, that'd be great. =p

That's funny because I got two Nanoresin in a row on a Rare:Line run. Imagine that.

[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2007-06-17 21:05 ]
Lol, someone picked up a nanoresin on set in order and I got it and then we got jaggos and I saw the aura drop and it went to me aswell http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

DurakkenX

Jun 17, 2007, 11:11 PM

>.> people with those lines in their topics are dumb beyond belief... we know that once it drops it automatically is assigned to a person whether they pick it up or not...all they are doing is stealing from people who actually want those things that drop beyond just high ranking drops...personally i pick up everything over 4 stars as they contribute enough meseta to greatly reduce the cost of PP.

Garnet_Moon

Jun 17, 2007, 11:12 PM

On 2007-06-17 21:10, Korokodo13 wrote:

On 2007-06-17 21:04, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2007-06-17 21:02, Umberger wrote:
I remember there was a thread here a while back "debunking the false claims of set in order". It said that when a rare falls, it's yours. If someone chooses not to pick it up, then they effectively skipped themselves. The order is assigned at the time of the drop, not when it's picked up.

If someone has evidence/a link to that thread, that'd be great. =p

That's funny because I got two Nanoresin in a row on a Rare:Line run. Imagine that.

[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2007-06-17 21:05 ]
Lol, someone picked up a nanoresin on set in order and I got it and then we got jaggos and I saw the aura drop and it went to me aswell http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

I love when something like that happens and someone starts crying about it and then leaves. I did it once when I lost my Solid / Power S somehow in a Rare: Order run, but now I stay away from missions with drops I want; or I convince myself that i'll get it solo later.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 17, 2007, 11:13 PM

On 2007-06-17 21:02, Umberger wrote:
I remember there was a thread here a while back "debunking the false claims of set in order". It said that when a rare falls, it's yours. If someone chooses not to pick it up, then they effectively skipped themselves. The order is assigned at the time of the drop, not when it's picked up.

If someone has evidence/a link to that thread, that'd be great. =p

Time and time again, that theory has been proved wrong.

But yeah, I'm starting to really get ticked off at all the RANDOM ONRY nubs in-game, because Set In Order is vastly superior. Anyone that doesn't realize that is either A) ignorant, B) confused, or C) greedy. Most random advocates fall into C.

jayster

Jun 17, 2007, 11:18 PM

I agree with umberger, I'm tired of all the idiots that cry over rares.

Rares are assigned to a person when they're dropped. Basically everyones names are put into a list, it starts at the top of the list and when a rare is dropped, its assigned to the next in order. If you skip it, then you skip that person. The reason why you see someone getting 2 rares in a row is because the list hits the bottom and heads back up, starting with the last person, who is now the first.

Saying that you don't pick up 7 or 8*'s because they rnt worth anything is actually losing you money bc that's your rare and its not going to give u someone elses rare just because u were to arogant to pick up ur own. By skipping rares u r skipping ur turn, thus skipping free synth materials and money from saling them.

Pick up rares ftw!

-Crokar-

Jun 17, 2007, 11:21 PM

i play in ordewr and will only play in order because its the only i can think to play this game.finder has nothing but loot whores and random can completely F people so order it is

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 17, 2007, 11:23 PM

On 2007-06-17 21:18, jayster wrote:

Rares are assigned to a person when they're dropped. Basically everyones names are put into a list, it starts at the top of the list and when a rare is dropped, its assigned to the next in order. If you skip it, then you skip that person.

/facepalm

No, no, no.

Rares only count in the order when they are picked up. We've known how Order works since, God, I don't know, a month after release?

DurakkenX

Jun 17, 2007, 11:27 PM

actually, fuzzy, that's one of the only parts that had any real supporting evidence to it and has not been proven false.

I personally prefer random for jao missions as the reason a lot of people are doing them is for the jao rares and not for any others and set in order becomes incredibly unfair as if a regular rare drops who ever gets it is pretty screwed on the jao rares.

As far as I can tell though set in order has a hierarchy in chance of getting first rare like say the 1st person or "red" player gets a higher slot than others as i notice that red almost always gets a rare if only a few drops and more often than not is the first to get a rare. though that is from observation and could just be coincidence.

jayster

Jun 17, 2007, 11:30 PM

PMB960

Jun 17, 2007, 11:33 PM

Okay for set in order lets say you have 3 people in your party player A , B and C. Lets say the first order is player B then A then C. If 3 Vulcaline drop then B then A then C get a Vulcaline. Since there are 3 people in the party and 3 rares dropped a new order is chosen. Lets say the next order is C then A then then B. This means if player C will get the next rare too. Not picking up a rare means the person who it was supposed to go to that time gets skipped and that rare goes to no one. Its no different than waiting in a line. When your turn comes up if you decide to skip it then you need to go to the end of the line and wait your turn all over again.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 17, 2007, 11:34 PM

A friend and I proved that rares don't count until picked up months ago. Do people actually ever look at the "event logs" before making this claims? Anyway, I'm not going to bother digging up the event log that proved this, because it should be common knowledge by now.

Also, rare room decorations do not count in the rare item order. We've also known this for months. Though I can't say for certain, I believe the game treats room decorations as normal items, regardless of their star rating. I only mention this because you mentioned Jaggos. In a typical run, at least 2/3 Jaggo drops are the Jao decoration, so rare drop settings don't even matter in that case.

Furthermore, the thing you mention about the "red" player getting a higher chance of getting a drop, that is certainly coincidence. The order of Set In Order is determined randomly.

D1ABOLIK

Jun 17, 2007, 11:34 PM

Almighty_Envy

Jun 17, 2007, 11:40 PM

I <3 random

ask the human Haseo, i was in his party and got like 8/11 rares at the end

Gryph05

Jun 17, 2007, 11:42 PM

lol...... Please test yourselves before putting info on "How in order works." It has nothing to do with what color slot you are in or when you joined the team. Basically, Order randomizes all the players in the team, and puts them in a list. Once someone on that list gets a rare, their name is removed. When all the players have been gone through, the game re-randomizes the names, and makes a new list. Test it sometime in Urgent Orders, god knows theres plenty of resins to go around. Just mark down all their names in the order they recieve their rares, on a few different runs. You'll see. =O

jayster

Jun 17, 2007, 11:43 PM

On 2007-06-17 21:34, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
A friend and I proved that rares don't count until picked up months ago. Do people actually ever look at the "event logs" before making this claims? Anyway, I'm not going to bother digging up the event log that proved this, because it should be common knowledge by now.

Also, rare room decorations do not count in the rare item order. We've also known this for months. Though I can't say for certain, I believe the game treats room decorations as normal items, regardless of their star rating. I only mention this because you mentioned Jaggos. In a typical run, at least 2/3 Jaggo drops are the Jao decoration, so rare drop settings don't even matter in that case.

Furthermore, the thing you mention about the "red" player getting a higher chance of getting a drop, that is certainly coincidence. The order of Set In Order is determined randomly.

You and a friend barely count as a source. Not to mention a reliable source. You are saying that because something is on psow. It's 100% true. A friend was looking up gudda skella (10* knuc) bc he found a board and the site said it can't be obtained by legit means. Psow probably takes the word of people like you to decide if somethings right based on ur "experiments". Instead of 'a friend and I proved that wrong' as evidence, get an explanation from sega or sometihing.

And what pbm said makes a lot of sense but who knows for sure. I know its not what u said. Not trying to be rude. So please excuse me.

Korokodo13

Jun 17, 2007, 11:44 PM

On 2007-06-17 21:23, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-06-17 21:18, jayster wrote:

Rares are assigned to a person when they're dropped. Basically everyones names are put into a list, it starts at the top of the list and when a rare is dropped, its assigned to the next in order. If you skip it, then you skip that person.

/facepalm

No, no, no.

Rares only count in the order when they are picked up. We've known how Order works since, God, I don't know, a month after release?

you are right fuzzy cuz in jao hunts if no one picks up rares it stays in the same order but if you pick up a rare it goes to then next in line and screws there chances of jao rares

I know 1st hand cuz ppl kept grabbing rares when it was my turn and then i wouldnt get a jao but when no rares appeared and it was my turn at the jaos it did the skippy thing and I got another aura and my kitty claws that I traded for my onmagougs in a row...
as we all know what happened next lol,
"you have been removed by the leader"

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 17, 2007, 11:45 PM

On 2007-06-17 21:30, jayster wrote:

Srry you are wrong. I could possibly be wrong too but I am 100% sure that is not how order works and iv played this game, along with many concurring players, since release.

On 2007-06-17 21:33, PMB960 wrote:
Okay for set in order lets say you have 3 people in your party player A , B and C. Lets say the first order is player B then A then C. If 3 Vulcaline drop then B then A then C get a Vulcaline. Since there are 3 people in the party and 3 rares dropped a new order is chosen. Lets say the next order is C then A then then B. This means if player C will get the next rare too. Not picking up a rare means the person who it was supposed to go to that time gets skipped and that rare goes to no one. Its no different than waiting in a line. When your turn comes up if you decide to skip it then you need to go to the end of the line and wait your turn all over again.

Haha, wow. I'm amazed people still think this way.

This is the way Set In Order works:

When you begin a mission, the order is randomly determined. Let's say you start with only 3 players, and the order is EBDACF

Now a Junaline drops and is picked up. There is no player E, so he gets skipped. Player B gets the Vulcaline.

Then a player joins, and a Scape Doll drops and is picked up. Player D (the one who just joined) has his turn in the order, so he gets it.

The next rare is a Kerseline. Player A gets it. Too bad.

The next rare is a Nanoresin. It goes to Player C.

Two more players join, and a Jao decoration drops. Player A gets it. Then another Jao drops, and player E gets it. Player C gets the third Jao.

Then a Slaterian drops. Player F gets it.

Then a Psycho Wand board drops. Player F gets it. How? After player F got his Slaterian, the initial order had run its course, so a new order was randomly generated. The new one ended up being FBDECA.

Then a Gourment Cake board drops. Nobody picks it up.

Then a Scape Doll board drops. Nobody picks it up.

Then a Ydral drops. Player B gets it, since he is after player F in the new order. Notice how the caek and doll boards don't factor into this at all, since nobody picked them up.

Anyway, enough of that, you get how it works. Random is for greedy bastards.

SolomonGrundy

Jun 17, 2007, 11:50 PM

it' really Firebreak that has brought out the worst in people. if they had made puyo or twin kitty claws, twin bear claws with a higher drop rate, no one would be getting this uptight.

I played in a group Saturday, and two of the players left after someone picked up copernia or teranite in the first room, before you even discover if a map is good or not!! They were saying: oh, teranite is not even worth 1k, leave it!

Insanity.

The only thing I can agree with, is when the jaggos actually spawn, not to pick up rares until all the jaggo items have been distributed. That way, no one will whine about the item that was supposed to be 'thiers.'

Again, really the issue that SEGA made the drops a little TOO rare, so that everyone wants, and few get. Worse, since this is a 4 person mision, you HAVE to party, and often with people you don't know/can't trust, to redistribute the wealth if someone should double up.

KidoKresh

Jun 17, 2007, 11:51 PM

i think if you're searching for it, and everyone in the party wants it, and you know that if they get it they won't give it to you... i think it is fair not to pick up the rare for the rare could go to anyone and if you're looking for something like the Puyoment or a S rank you dont want someone to pick up kersaline then BAM! puyo comes up and it skips you cuz you already got a rare :{

PMB960

Jun 17, 2007, 11:54 PM

After joining a random Onma run one guy was complaining that set in order was broken since everyone recieved 3 rares except him. He didn't get a single rare the entire run. Now they never hit the crystals so I had to run all the way to the boss. Now along the way I find 3 [B] Scape Doll. I pick each one up and lo and behold all 3 go to him. And you are right Fuzzylogic this was determined months ago and was posted in this thread: http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=132035&forum=22&67

jayster

Jun 17, 2007, 11:56 PM

True, iv been booted for picking up stuff like kersaline, vestaline, copernia. Iv even been booted when someone else picked it up and won't own up to it.. Rares bring out the worst in people. Dumb as it may be.... now we can't even pick up nanoresins, this is ridiculous. A level 47 booted me for picking up a freaking nanoresin in a B rank mission.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 17, 2007, 11:57 PM

On 2007-06-17 21:54, PMB960 wrote:
After joining a random Onma run one guy was complaining that set in order was broken since everyone recieved 3 rares except him. He didn't get a single rare the entire run. Now they never hit the crystals so I had to run all the way to the boss. Now along the way I find 3 [B] Scape Doll. I pick each one up and lo and behold all 3 go to him. And you are right Fuzzylogic this was determined months ago and was posted in this thread: http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=132035&forum=22&67

Show me the drop log.

Deus-Irae

Jun 18, 2007, 12:00 AM

random sucks.

PMB960

Jun 18, 2007, 12:00 AM

On 2007-06-17 21:57, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
Show me the drop log.

Sorry no drop log I don't keep logs but people who know me know I am a reliable person. Also I would love to see your drop log that shows that I am wrong.

jayster

Jun 18, 2007, 12:00 AM

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 18, 2007, 12:02 AM

On 2007-06-17 22:00, PMB960 wrote:

On 2007-06-17 21:57, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
Show me the drop log.

Sorry no drop log I don't keep logs but people who know me know I am a reliable person. Also I would love to see your drop log that shows that I am wrong.

If you're on PC, you have a log of every item that was ever picked up by anyone in every game you've ever been in. Ya, rly.

And I'm trying to find my log, give me a bit.

PMB960

Jun 18, 2007, 12:03 AM

What I was saying is that they are assigned. The 3 [B] Scape dolls were assigned to the guy who was complaing he didn't get any rares. He DID get rares but chose not to pick them up. When I picked them up they went to the person the were assigned to , the guy who was complaining.

EDIT: Also you can chose not to keep chat logs and item drop logs. I chose not to because I could really care less about what item dropped when or who said what.

[ This Message was edited by: PMB960 on 2007-06-17 22:05 ]

jayster

Jun 18, 2007, 12:06 AM

That's exactly the theory I said but fuzzy said it was wrong. He said that the rare doesn't count until it is picked up and that they aren't assigned like that.

PMB960

Jun 18, 2007, 12:10 AM

On 2007-06-17 22:06, jayster wrote:
That's exactly the theory I said but fuzzy said it was wrong. He said that the rare doesn't count until it is picked up and that they aren't assigned like that.

Again everything was explained in this topic: http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=132035&forum=22&67
All information on how set in order works is already located in that topic. This topic shows how rares are assigned to people when they drop and skipping rares skips someones turn. That is the only way to explain why some people can end up with no rares and everyone else gets 3 in a set in order game.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 18, 2007, 12:12 AM

You're wrong. I found my log. Copypasta from a post I made in early January (lol):

Oh if anyone is interested, I proved beyond a shadow of a doubt last night that rares are not "predetermined" when they drop, and do not take a spot in the order until they are picked up.

I'll post the drop logs if you people want.

EDIT: Here's the logs, to once and for all silence the "predetermined" drops people:

14:54:16 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Sol Atomizer(1)

15:20:13 XXXXXXXX Clover [Pickup] Meseta(182)

15:20:38 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Meseta(249)

15:21:25 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Meseta(166)

15:21:32 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Meseta(199)

15:23:27 XXXXXXXX Clover [Pickup] Megi-photon(1)

15:24:17 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Marseline(1)
Somewhere around this time (in the first room) a Scape Doll drops from a box and we do not pick it up.

15:24:26 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Meseta(182)

15:25:33 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Meseta(481)

15:27:03 XXXXXXXX Clover [Pickup] Megi-photon(1)

15:27:32 XXXXXXXX Clover [Pickup] Gra-photon(1)

15:27:35 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Megi-photon(1)

15:27:35 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Ban-photon(1)

15:28:19 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] {B} Del Jagnus(1) editorial note: changed brackets to braces so the nub forums didn't mistake the board indicator for a bold tag.

15:29:44 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Meseta(232)

15:29:47 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Meseta(215)

15:31:01 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Meseta(481)

15:31:09 XXXXXXXX Clover [Pickup] Meseta(381)

15:31:43 XXXXXXXX Clover [Pickup] Dianaline(1)

15:31:48 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Meseta(249)

15:32:01 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Megi-photon(1)

15:32:31 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Meseta(232)

15:32:40 XXXXXXXX Clover [Pickup] Monomate(1)

15:32:41 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Megi-photon(1)

15:32:59 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Slaterian(1)

15:33:00 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Megi-photon(1)

15:33:03 XXXXXXXX Clover [Pickup] Slaterian(1)

15:33:09 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] El-photon(1)

15:33:42 XXXXXXXX Clover [Pickup] Meseta(166)

15:33:48 XXXXXXXX Clover [Pickup] Bel Pannon Jelly(1)

15:34:04 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Meseta(232)

15:34:05 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Marseline(1)

15:34:21 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Sol Atomizer(1)

15:34:45 XXXXXXXX Clover [Pickup] Meseta(199)

15:35:23 XXXXXXXX Fence [Pickup] Meseta(166)

15:36:09 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Slaterian(1)

15:36:10 XXXXXXXX Dvorak [Pickup] Slaterian(1)
What's this? I got 2 rares in a row? This is only possible in order in one situation, namely when I have both the last spot in the "old" order, and the first spot in the "new" order, since the order is randomly recalculated once the "old" order is finished (i.e. every got a rare or had their spot skipped).

If the Scape Doll that was not picked up had been predetermined, then the order would have reset after Clover got his Slaterian, thus making it impossible for me to get two rares in a row.

Therefore, this is decisive proof that rares are never assigned to a spot in the order until they are picked up.

And if anyone is wondering, we were doing runs for rares and did not care about our rank, therefore making the scape a useless rare in the context of the run, since we all planned on dying several times. We did, however, go back and pick up the Scape after we cleared the last room. No reason to let 5k go to waste.

[/copypasta]

So...yeah. You're wrong.

KidoKresh

Jun 18, 2007, 12:18 AM

On 2007-06-17 21:04, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2007-06-17 21:02, Umberger wrote:
I remember there was a thread here a while back "debunking the false claims of set in order". It said that when a rare falls, it's yours. If someone chooses not to pick it up, then they effectively skipped themselves. The order is assigned at the time of the drop, not when it's picked up.

If someone has evidence/a link to that thread, that'd be great. =p

That's funny because I got two Nanoresin in a row on a Rare:Line run. Imagine that.

[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2007-06-17 21:05 ]

That is possible because after everyone in the party gets a rare set in order changes its order.

Rashiid

Jun 18, 2007, 12:22 AM

Set in order is too unfair.

it all starts from 1 person skipping a kerseline; then gets a [S] board, then tha person is like 'well thats not fair since U didnt want the kerseline i woulda got that!'

too much unfairness.

Random = everyone EQUAL chance of everything.

Korokodo13

Jun 18, 2007, 12:22 AM

Go Fuzzy!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 18, 2007, 12:29 AM

On 2007-06-17 22:22, Rashiid wrote:
Set in order is too unfair.

it all starts from 1 person skipping a kerseline; then gets a [S] board, then tha person is like 'well thats not fair since U didnt want the kerseline i woulda got that!'

too much unfairness.

Random = everyone EQUAL chance of everything.

LMAO.

Order is unfair? So having the possibility to go several runs without a single rare is fair then? Ok, sure.

3 Kerselines and a Copernia beats no rares all night.

Besides, it is nigh impossible to willfully exploit Order in your favor, since the order itself is random. Sure, picking up the Cyral might screw the other guy out of getting the ubar rar (which probably won't drop anyway), but it just as likely might screw you out of the ubar rar instead.

[ This Message was edited by: Ffuzzy-Logik on 2007-06-17 22:30 ]

Baku

Jun 18, 2007, 12:41 AM

*sigh* this is why I always party with friends...

Rashiid

Jun 18, 2007, 12:42 AM

Order.

Bob
Jill
Dante
Smith

Kerseline drops.
Smith picks it up. Jill states 'dont pick up those rares' Smith: 'it was an accident sorry.'
Puyoment drops; now. Bob recieves it; then Jao figure drops; Jill gets it.

now.

Jill didnt get Puyo because Smith picked up Kerseline. Jill is angry. is this fair? abosolutly not. olpad drops; no one touches it. now we all know its Dante's turn next. random person joins. grabs scape doll board from long before. Dante gets it. [B] Baji-Senba drops; Bob gets it.

now. you can already see the unfairness. too much to debate in it; since its all 'fixed'

Random = EQUAL chance for everyone to get an item.

thus; Random > Order.

PMB960

Jun 18, 2007, 12:43 AM

I don't doubt your log but did you Moon Atomizer everyone who died or did you leave and come back in? Whenever someone joins the party, leaves the party or walks out of the mission and comes back in it will change the order. In a run where we started with 3 people and 3 more joined along the way the leader recieved 3 rares in a row on set in order. We picked up 1 which went to the leader then someone joined and it reset the order then picked up another rare which went to the leader and then the 6th person joined and then we picked up a 3rd rare which again went to the leader. The only way to completely disprove that items are not determined when they drop would be to have no one died, go to the lobby and come back and no one to join mid mission and have no one d/c. Any time this is done it resets the order.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 18, 2007, 12:50 AM

On 2007-06-17 22:43, PMB960 wrote:
I don't doubt your log but did you Moon Atomizer everyone who died or did you leave and come back in? Whenever someone joins the party, leaves the party or walks out of the mission and comes back in it will change the order. Wrong again.

The order resets only on two occasions.

A. The old order finishes.
B. You start a new mission.

People joining/leaving/dying/whatever does not reset the order.

And Rashiid: Tough shit, nobody knew the Puyoment was going to drop. Besides, Smith had just as much a chance to screw himself out of the Puyoment by picking up the Kerseline.

Set In Order is the fairest rule of them all, and even more so when every rare (excluding stupid shit like Gourmet Caek and Scape Doll boards) is picked up, and the order is run through several times in a single mission.

KiteWolfwood

Jun 18, 2007, 12:57 AM

Just because you like peanut butter doesn't mean everyone else has to. Some people are allergic to peanut butter and others just like bologna. So before you type think about others for once you selfish bastards.

Micki_Monday

Jun 18, 2007, 01:00 AM

I actually use all the mats (even the Kerseline for Phantom Lines) and anything I dont have to pay for is good http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif so I don't mind getting mats. I never liked random loot XP

PMB960

Jun 18, 2007, 01:05 AM

On 2007-06-17 22:50, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
Wrong again.

The order resets only on two occasions.

A. The old order finishes.
B. You start a new mission.

People joining/leaving/dying/whatever does not reset the order.

And Rashiid: Tough shit, nobody knew the Puyoment was going to drop. Besides, Smith had just as much a chance to screw himself out of the Puyoment by picking up the Kerseline.

Set In Order is the fairest rule of them all, and even more so when every rare (excluding stupid shit like Gourmet Caek and Scape Doll boards) is picked up, and the order is run through several times in a single mission.

If it doesn't change when someone joins that doesn't explain how the only 3 rares that dropped went to the leader each one immediately after someone joined though. And if someone happened to die and be in the lobby when you picked up a rare it would screw everything up since you will not receive items while in the lobby. If you start a 2 person party and have one guy sit in the lobby all the rares will default to the person in the mission with the guy in the lobby receiving none although he will still see the message that a rare was picked up on screen.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 18, 2007, 01:08 AM

On 2007-06-17 23:05, PMB960 wrote:

If it doesn't change when someone joins that doesn't explain how the only 3 rares that dropped went to the leader each one immediately after someone joined though.Dunno, I'd need to see a log to explain that. Until I see one, I'll classify that as hearsay.

And if someone happened to die and be in the lobby when you picked up a rare it would screw everything up since you will not receive items while in the lobby. If you start a 2 person party and have one guy sit in the lobby all the rares will default to the person in the mission with the guy in the lobby receiving none although he will still see the message that a rare was picked up on screen.

You're right on that, but I can assure you that no one was in the lobby when those rares dropped.

SolomonGrundy

Jun 18, 2007, 01:08 AM

..and more importantly does not justify leaving perfectly good materials on the ground.

This was actually said to me "i don't care about a 5K nanoresin, don't pick it up."

can you imagine?

Siertes

Jun 18, 2007, 01:10 AM

A few guys want to get together and do some testing right now?

PMB960

Jun 18, 2007, 01:13 AM

I would but unfortunately Sega decided they would no longer accept my money. Hopefully they will get this straightened out soon and after that I can do testing. Probably not until after FB though.

SolomonGrundy

Jun 18, 2007, 01:16 AM

I have a better idea. wait until fire break ends, and then party with your friends (small or large parties, it does not matter).

>>>AGREE BEFOREHAND WHO GETS WHAT, SHOULD IT DROP.

This can be done on a per/run, or series of runs basis. We all know what drops, so if Bobby force really wants the rare rod drop, and it goes to jimmy the hunter, Jimmy gives it up, knowing that Bobby would do the same for him. THis isn't rocket science. I did it ALL THE TIME in PSO.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 18, 2007, 01:19 AM

On 2007-06-17 23:16, SolomonGrundy wrote:
I have a better idea. wait until fire break ends, and then party with your friends (small or large parties, it does not matter).

>>>AGREE BEFOREHAND WHO GETS WHAT, SHOULD IT DROP.

This can be done on a per/run, or series of runs basis. We all know what drops, so if Bobby force really wants the rare rod drop, and it goes to jimmy the hunter, Jimmy gives it up, knowing that Bobby would do the same for him. THis isn't rocket science. I did it ALL THE TIME in PSO.

I agree, the "call system" is by far the best, but it only works with friends and trustworthy acquaintances.

In a pick-up game, though, Order is the clear winner.

chibiLegolas

Jun 18, 2007, 01:26 AM

On 2007-06-17 22:22, Rashiid wrote:
Set in order is too unfair.

it all starts from 1 person skipping a kerseline; then gets a [S] board, then tha person is like 'well thats not fair since U didnt want the kerseline i woulda got that!'

too much unfairness.

I totally agree. Exept for the part on rely'n on random as a result. I believe there's truths on both theories since I've experienced examples that disproves BOTH claims. There where times where I've received 3 rares in a row in a 6 party room, while still set in order? How could I forget that?! Unless if large $ drops counts as a rare as others have suggested in the past. And I do like PMB960's theory about player deaths/new player joining, etc. But it's true. There WERE times where I've seen 3 rares in a row in set in order. And times where I was in a party for 3 runs and just watched others receive rares EXCEPT me. Even ppl who just joined kept receiving rares where I was with this party for 3 runs and got nothing what so ever. PMB960's theory was the only explanation that would explain that rare occurance.

I say the only TRUE fairness on rare distribution is for everyone to pick up EVERY rare drops no matter what with set in order. With set in order, we are relying on the random order you're listed as.

So what if a Kersoline dropped? TOUGH! You're the next to receive it, so take it! The next guys gotta get their rares too you know! You think the rare you just got sucks? Sorry about that. But that's just how the dice rolled in your list placement. Be a man and just suck it up.

To skip it just screws up the order and the last guy in line may not never see a rare (depending on mission rank and type). I just feel that skipping rares on purpose makes you try and CHEAT your way out of how set in order was designed for.

I just don't get why ppl blame folks who pick up copernia, kersoline, etc. when they SHOULD just be blaming their OWN luck in the set in order placement.
I sure don't blame ppl when the "junk" rares end up to me. It was just my time to get one was all.

So what about the guy who received a Ydral (or some other 10* rare ingredient) right before the jaggos appeared. And the bear claws just dropped? He just missed his chance at it. Should he complain to whoever who picked up the Ydral? Where does the unfairness end? Receive your rare as it drops and just accept your fate. Don't try and cheat your way into someone ELSE'S placement for THEIR rightful rare drop folks.

[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-06-17 23:41 ]

Weeaboolits

Jun 18, 2007, 01:28 AM

Wow, this debate sure is rare. ;]

Turambar

Jun 18, 2007, 01:51 AM

I personally prefer random over order. Look, we all know that on order, the possible drama that might ensue because someone picked up something "useless" is enough to make you lose some hair. The argument against random so far is that its possible for someone to get more rares than others. But who gets the disproportional amounts of rares? Thats the random part. It frees up people from having the right to bitch at someone for "wrong doing". OK fine, people will still bitch, but with much less justification. (if any existed in the first place)

Sekani

Jun 18, 2007, 01:53 AM

Do your Jaggo hunts on A to avoid this nonsense altogether.

Soukosa

Jun 18, 2007, 02:06 AM

From a programmer's perspective, it makes no sense to assign who gets what drop when the item spawns. Seems more logical to decide that when its actually picked up since I'm sure ST is aware that not all loot is gonna be picked up and thus that saves processing.

On 2007-06-17 22:22, Rashiid wrote:
Random = everyone EQUAL chance of everything.

Random number generators don't care much about equal chance. I was in a party once that had rares set to random. What happened? I ended up getting hardly any "rares" while others were >.> Yep, sure is equal.

physic

Jun 18, 2007, 02:16 AM

in the PC/PS2 economy random is probably best bet. while i love kerselines and other such mats, people are bullshiting if they thing a kerseline is worth the good drop that you may have to run 2000 times to see. and a person missing that chance for a kerseline is hardly fair. Of course you could theorize that over teh course of many games there is onlya slight difference in you chance of getting a good item. But fact is random cant be exlploited, set order can.

If i know that i was first in one order and tom is only one left and 2 rares are on the floor, i can pick up crappy rare first (relatively), and good rare second guaranteeing me a chance at said item, as well as picking toms item for him. Rares are not decided the moment they land on the floor me and my friends proved this many times in teh early days. Maybe every intricacy of set order isnt known, but its definately not predetermined. I can onlyspeak for PC/ps2 on this, because thats what i played.

Imo random is the most trust worthy thing with least guilt associated for actually wanting items that arent super great. Set order if your not going to pick up these rares, is useless, because you probably wont see 3 great rares in a run. then theres the whole whats crpa to you vs crap to someone else.

set order is good for if everybody wants something and doesnt mind how tht will effect true rares. In random parties, id prefer random, and leave it entirely up to sucky fate. set order is also only really super fair if you have 6 or so random drops a run. otherwise its basically just like random.

Weeaboolits

Jun 18, 2007, 02:17 AM

Equal in theory, not in practice, random is random, not equal share.

DurakkenX

Jun 18, 2007, 02:24 AM

I wish people would read >.> what people say...

Fuzzy...your logs do not support your claims...none of them

Also...wtf decorations don't fall under rare item? are you high or something? #1 why would they do that... ST has lazy programmers, #2. they are considered rares v.v i don't even really need a defense to this...seriously it's one of those things when everyone says something like "that shirt is red" and the shirt is red, and one person comes along and insists it's green. Since you can't even follow the basic line of thought in observing this why would anyone rely on your information...on something not obvious regarding the same subject.

I'm not saying he's absolutely right either, but you are way farther from what is right...

PMB960

Jun 18, 2007, 02:36 AM

Thats because random number generators aren't actually random. No matter how it is done it is still just an algorithm and no matter how good it is it will probably favor a certain number over another and the smaller the grouping the worse it is. Also alot of things ST does doesn't not make sense. It might save on processing to determine it at pick up(although the amount it would save would be negligible unless they did something really screwed up) but thats assuming ST did everything they could to maximize the systems potential to make sure the game was running as efficiently as possible. Obviously that did not happen as it runs rather slow even on a powerful PC so they could have done any number of things that don't make sense from our point of view.

Also with all these conflicting reports could it be possible that if the party doesn't change members set in order carries over from run to run? Since everyone has a different view we must be over looking something.

[ This Message was edited by: PMB960 on 2007-06-18 00:49 ]

DurakkenX

Jun 18, 2007, 02:56 AM

yeah, random number generator is really a huge equation that if you know and have enough of the previous numbers output by that generator, or whatever other factors that are put in, you can figure out the next random number. One of the greatest robberies ever was done in this way. A programmer who knew the equation and worked out most of the factors went from casino to casino for a bit and racked up millions of dollars by radioing the next numbers to come up to the person on the floor so that he would bet on specific numbers ^.^ it was years before they caught him.

drizzle

Jun 18, 2007, 03:07 AM

On 2007-06-17 21:13, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
But yeah, I'm starting to really get ticked off at all the RANDOM ONRY nubs in-game, because Set In Order is vastly superior. Anyone that doesn't realize that is either A) ignorant, B) confused, or C) greedy. Most random advocates fall into C.

*notices complete lack of arguments to support this claim*

Set in Order is superior if all rares are equal. But they're not.

On 2007-06-18 00:06, Sounomi wrote:
From a programmer's perspective, it makes no sense to assign who gets what drop when the item spawns. Seems more logical to decide that when its actually picked up since I'm sure ST is aware that not all loot is gonna be picked up and thus that saves processing.

This really is trivial to code; and even if it wasn't it really doesn't matter what makes sense from a programmer's perspective and what doesn't. It's the game designers that decide how things work, and the programmers implement that.

[ This Message was edited by: drizzle on 2007-06-18 01:14 ]

Dealer

Jun 18, 2007, 03:09 AM

In Urgent Orders I feel "random" is the most fair. I know everyone plays "set in order," but there is really no argument to using this method unless you try to manipulate the drops. Hear me out.

On B on set order, where rares don't usually drop enough to go through the whole order, picking up rares is a problem. With 4 players (ABCD), imagine 2 normal rares on the way to the jao room, where three jao drops are coming. (CABD) Player C gets a nanoresin, and player A gets a chicotite. Now entering into the final jao room, players B and D have yet to get a rare. They are GUARANTEED a Jao statue or Jao drop unless one or two more rares are picked up. So what does player A or C do? They go and check the boxes or seeds for a jao room normal rare to screw player B on his Jao drop. Player B who gets the normal picked up rare may still get a jao drop, but it will be on his way back through a new random set list.(eg C(nanoresin)A(chicotite)B(normal)D(Jao)A(Jao)B(Jao )DC)

When the shoe is on the other foot, and it's player A and C's turn for a rare when they get to the Jao room, what happens? They furiously attack the jao hoping to get the drop before a dummy rare is picked up by B or D. Earlier in the run, a player picking up the items with his turn still to come often leaves a perfectly good $8000 nanoresin on the ground. Doing A runs remedies the problem due to the quantity of rares over the run - until the Jao room that is. There, the opportunities to manipulate the order exists just as in B.

None of these behaviours are conducive to teamwork, or fun. Unfortunately the rewards everywhere else are so awful we have to spam under these conditions.

Random order remedies all of the politics associated with this. Would people honestly retain all the drama and dishonesty in the set order system simply to guarantee a nanoresin per run instead of zero this run and two the next?

DAMASCUS

Jun 18, 2007, 04:15 AM

Ah, ok I think I get it. So only use 'order' if the average number of rares for the level are twice the number of team members that you have. That way no one feels the need to try and cheat the order by manipulating less desirable rares or insisting that other people do. Order is still random it just gives each person a chance at a rare but if there aren't enough rares picked up to make the circuit then you get the same rares plus bupkis for all the items skipped. One scenario: two people get 10 star boards everyone else gets nothing. Second scenario: two people get 10 star boards and everyone else gets useful A rank materials. What sounds fair to you?

ne1first

Jun 18, 2007, 06:43 AM

Rashiid

Jun 18, 2007, 07:37 AM

On 2007-06-17 23:53, Sekani wrote:
Do your Jaggo hunts on A to avoid this nonsense altogether.

its not about Jaggo hunts (i just used Jaos as an example) just in general.

no matter; all my friends agree on my Random be the most fair; so im happy.

even when ppl join; the ask why is it on random; i explain.

then they say 'ok; uve got a point'

Powder Keg

Jun 18, 2007, 07:48 AM

If they want to whine about it, they can either:

A.) Play on Random
B.) Play in their own locked game.

I personally could use those Kerselines and some other materials. If I synth weapons I don't use, I generally sell them or give them to a weaker character.

Order sucks anyway. It's the retard version of random. With random, you can just freely pick up anything and not worry about anything.

gambit04

Jun 18, 2007, 09:29 AM

I really dislike random ever since I heard that one guy on 360 got pretty much all the rares from one mission which was about 10 rares...I know that this isn't a common thing but still it has a chance to happen and I don't want to take that chance.

Most of us have a group of friends that agree on the way items are set so it doesn't matter too much about which I prefer to use and why but one thing that does interest me is the way Order really works I'm going to try a few runs and try to figure it out myself.

I believe I already know how it works out but I'm sure that everyone gets a rare I always seemed to get a few per run so I was happy with it...but you always hear that one person in the party say...wtf I got skipped this is bs I hate order it is so broken

-Kinda Off-Topic-
As far as jaggo huns go I think random is the best bet b/c like Dealer wrote you will have people manipulating the order all the way to the Jaggo room with set in order. I've seen many parties do this >.> Heck, even I have done this it is a jaggo drop why not try to manipulate that order?

Wheatpenny

Jun 18, 2007, 09:30 AM

Ah the age old debate of "congradulations sucker you got a [B] Scape Doll". Part of what realy agitates this little debate in folks is the horrid drop rate for boards. I still have not seen any rare armor or weapon boards drop in any of the runs I have done over in ps2/pc land. Naturaly if the same is happening to other folks on order say someone picks up a "useles" board like a scape doll(I dont view them as useles but I seem to get that vibe from the general populace) then someone gets a rare board drop afterwards, you have to admit it is a tad agravating.

DurakkenX

Jun 18, 2007, 10:24 AM

I've been in a party where "Red" positioned player got 20 drops in a row and it was set in order...1 rare dropped per run on neudaiz FB...

PMB960

Jun 18, 2007, 10:38 AM

On 2007-06-18 01:09, Dealer wrote:
In Urgent Orders I feel "random" is the most fair. I know everyone plays "set in order," but there is really no argument to using this method unless you try to manipulate the drops. Hear me out.

On B on set order, where rares don't usually drop enough to go through the whole order, picking up rares is a problem. With 4 players (ABCD), imagine 2 normal rares on the way to the jao room, where three jao drops are coming. (CABD) Player C gets a nanoresin, and player A gets a chicotite. Now entering into the final jao room, players B and D have yet to get a rare. They are GUARANTEED a Jao statue or Jao drop unless one or two more rares are picked up. So what does player A or C do? They go and check the boxes or seeds for a jao room normal rare to screw player B on his Jao drop. Player B who gets the normal picked up rare may still get a jao drop, but it will be on his way back through a new random set list.(eg C(nanoresin)A(chicotite)B(normal)D(Jao)A(Jao)B(Jao )DC)

When the shoe is on the other foot, and it's player A and C's turn for a rare when they get to the Jao room, what happens? They furiously attack the jao hoping to get the drop before a dummy rare is picked up by B or D. Earlier in the run, a player picking up the items with his turn still to come often leaves a perfectly good $8000 nanoresin on the ground. Doing A runs remedies the problem due to the quantity of rares over the run - until the Jao room that is. There, the opportunities to manipulate the order exists just as in B.

Honestly though thats alot of effort to try and get (possibly) a good rare. I seriously doubt that most people keep track of every rare item that has dropped up to the point of the Jaggo room. Honestly the order switches after so that doesn't even guarantee the A and B would get a rare. Whhat if the new order was DCBA? Yes it might give you a slightly better chance but still to try to keep track of all that in the hopes that the new order puts you at the top or the order and the item you want drops at exactly the right time? Plus in most of the new missions people are running with parties of 6 all the time so that makes it even harder to keep track of who got what rare and less of a chance that you will end up in the order exactly where you want to be.

ljkkjlcm9

Jun 18, 2007, 10:52 AM

if you always play random, in the long run, it should balance out for you, it's pretty much that simple. I get more upset when non-rares are set in order or set random, because people pick up crap low star items that fill my inventory without me knowing.

I used to be a set in order guy, but I've become a random person for rares. Someone may get 2, 3, 5 rares in a row, but everytime I had just as good a chance of getting it.

THE JACKEL

Sexy_Raine

Jun 18, 2007, 10:58 AM

Random for me always. Anyone random nub that complains to me about Rares on Random in my party will get kicked.

Neith

Jun 18, 2007, 11:01 AM

Order for anywhere without S-Rank/exceptional drops, Random for anywhere with. Simple really.

Also, Durakken:

You were either soloing, or that's wrong. Order ALWAYS goes through everyone in the game- the most rares you could get in a row with order (in a full party) is 2- if you were at the end of one order, and the start of the next. No-one gets 20 in a row unless its on random, Give Finder, or if you're soloing.

[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2007-06-18 09:03 ]

chibiLegolas

Jun 18, 2007, 11:48 AM

On 2007-06-18 09:01, UrikoBB3 wrote:
Also, Durakken:

You were either soloing, or that's wrong. Order ALWAYS goes through everyone in the game- the most rares you could get in a row with order (in a full party) is 2- if you were at the end of one order, and the start of the next. No-one gets 20 in a row unless its on random, Give Finder, or if you're soloing.

I would normally agree too. But like I said before, there was a time where I ran with 3 ppl multiple times throughout a few missions and I NEVER got a rare once while everyone else received at LEAST 1 or 2. And that involved new ppl joining every new mission we'd make. And 1 person who kept dropping out every 5-10 minutes cause of a bad connection. Unless large $ drops from high leveled enemies are concidered rares, I just don't see how I got skipped multiple times with set in order unless the order's manipulated somehow everytime someone joins/leaves. (which doesn't seem logical when it comes to fairness).

Or with fuzzy logic's theory, it was JUST not my night and everytime a new list was made, I was always on the bottom of it. And when new ppl joined, they received it before I did. End mission. Start new one with some ppl staying, some ppl leaving, some ppl joining, but yet everytime, I was just still radnomly put in last place on the list. I could of sworn there were enough rare drops within the mission to say that I was truly skipped mulitple times. But I could just be mixing up several runs together in my mind.

I wish I had the drop list record since that was an extreme rare occurace. But I feel that if I understand the reasonings behind that night's drops, we'd be closer to understanding the truth. And yea, I'm on the PS2 here. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif'

But then again, there were times where I've seen set in order go through everyone in order. 2 new ppl join and they immediately get the next rares anyways. Could be just coincidence with Fuzzy logic's theory. But that still doesn't explain why I've received 3 rares in a row in a 6 man party. I guess I gotta give a shout out next time I see that happen and hope someone on the PC side has a record of it.

BTW, anyone know if the Japanese players have figured it out either? Cause they too must be just as curious as we are about the truth of set in order.(I only ask cause I've never heard anyone mention this before).

[ This Message was edited by: chibiLegolas on 2007-06-18 09:51 ]

ljkkjlcm9

Jun 18, 2007, 12:15 PM

On 2007-06-18 09:48, chibiLegolas wrote:
BTW, anyone know if the Japanese players have figured it out either? Cause they too must be just as curious as we are about the truth of set in order.(I only ask cause I've never heard anyone mention this before).

they probably don't care because they're respectful enough to play on give finder and evenly distribute the rares. They play as teams, not as individuals. Unlike over here where people play more as individuals than teams.

THE JACKEL

Alpha-Hunter

Jun 18, 2007, 12:18 PM

chibi the same has happened to me on several occasions. the order had to reset whenever new people join/leave. to me there is no other explaination based on my experience. can't speak for everyone though...

i'm usually a big order advocate. that being said though i've come to realize that random is better for FB running. it's just too fast paced and greed based to use order. and the fact that the missions are limited makes it that much worse.

SolomonGrundy

Jun 18, 2007, 01:28 PM

For those players worries about 'manipulating" rares:
- and this is only regarding B runs, since nothing drops on C, and A runs no one would suggest leaves all the resin/polymer behind.

3 Jaggos appear on a rare map. You don't know whether it's going to drop a statue (almost worthlesss), kitty claw, meow, or puyo. Could be the 1st jaggo, could be the third. Grabbing a random rare could end up costing you the item you were hunting in the first place.

Point is, trying to manipulate the drops, really only has a chance of working on LAST jaggo. So are you honestly telling me that people are so hard up for the rare du jour, that they would give up resin, copernia, kerseline along the way on the chance that they might be able to manipulate the drops for the last jaggo?

Set random is an option I guess, but since so many runs end up with nothing but 'garden variety' rares, it seems a bit excessive. I have seen too many statistical anomalys to want to use it.

gambit04

Jun 18, 2007, 01:49 PM

On 2007-06-18 08:38, PMB960 wrote:

Honestly though thats alot of effort to try and get (possibly) a good rare. I seriously doubt that most people keep track of every rare item that has dropped up to the point of the Jaggo room. Honestly the order switches after so that doesn't even guarantee the A and B would get a rare. Whhat if the new order was DCBA? Yes it might give you a slightly better chance but still to try to keep track of all that in the hopes that the new order puts you at the top or the order and the item you want drops at exactly the right time? Plus in most of the new missions people are running with parties of 6 all the time so that makes it even harder to keep track of who got what rare and less of a chance that you will end up in the order exactly where you want to be.

WOW...wanna do some new firebreak missions with me?
It really isn't that hard to keep track if you got a rare or not now is it? If you do get a rare you pick up rares until everyone has gotten a rare. This is easy to keep track because most firebreak parties I'm in are jaggo hunting so that means only 4 people in the party.

But you aren't really hunting jaggos. You are probably doing A runs for a good rank (with 6 people) then I could see where you wouldn't try to keep track and in the end it wouldn't matter. But some people do keep track that long. This is why I hear some people insist that we purify before we kill them and you may see the boxes opened up too.

Pengfishh

Jun 18, 2007, 01:50 PM

SOOOOOOOO FUCKIIIIIIIING WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

-Tidus_415-

Jun 18, 2007, 01:54 PM

When I used to play on the PS2 version (last time was back in january) rares were set in random. Is it still like that now? I started playing on the 360 version almost 2 months ago and everyone sets rares in order :/

I like to pick up 7* and 8* materials because I can use them to synth random weapons and hope for high %'s. If not I can put em up on my shop and still make a profit. But noooooo people avoid 7* and 8*'s due to the stupid rares set in order.

Tigerram

Jun 18, 2007, 02:17 PM

I personally love the set in order parties. I really don't care what rares I get since I'm a full fledged pack rat. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Plus, my luck just stinks with items set randomly, I could count on one hand how many times I've gotten anything decent from the rare bunch, and that's if I get anything at all. Then again, that's why it's "random."

Garanz-Baranz

Jun 18, 2007, 03:13 PM

<,< Hmm..

Random, how is that equal? Random numbers are basically mulch at low amounts, but are definant at higher amounts.

You can use the /dice macro to do a 'no field experiment test'.

Lets say I use /dice 6 times, as posibly, 6 rares drop. odds are, I can get one diferent face on each 'roll', but instead, I get three 2's, two 3's and a 5. that is random.

Now, what about 1, 4, and 6? they get bunk. Is that equal?

Now, testing with 40 drops aparant similar drops.
I roll-
1- 9
2- 2
3- 6
4- 6
5- 9
6- 9

so, 40 drops, and player 2 only got 2, is that fair? when players 5, 6, and 1 get 9 drops each, and 3 and 4 get 6, how is that fair? Random is not equal.

In sessions of multiple occurances, there is no "equal" result. it's probability is equal, but the odds are not.

Order eliminates about 70% of the crap with Randoms inequallity. Though at the present time, it's kind of unconfirmed that it's a preset order, we can confirm that NO ONE GETS MORE THAN 2 RARES IN A ROW, regardless of order, unless the applied order theory is true and perple are skiped.

I perfer random because theres no posible way to be unfair, verses not picking the stuff up.

jmm22msu

Jun 18, 2007, 03:44 PM

I no longer believe rares are assigned when they drop. because on several occasions i;ve seen a rare drop and suppose to go to me b/c its my turn only to skip me. So i'm still confused on on set in order. Although I know the order resets itself after everybody gets a rare.

Deus-Irae

Jun 18, 2007, 03:52 PM

On 2007-06-18 13:13, Garanz-Baranz wrote:

I perfer random because theres no posible way to be unfair, verses not picking the stuff up.

um. you mean order, yes?

On 2007-06-18 10:18, Alpha-Hunter wrote:

i'm usually a big order advocate. that being said though i've come to realize that random is better for FB running. it's just too fast paced and greed based to use order. and the fact that the missions are limited makes it that much worse.

very good point Alpha.

as much as it pains me to say this (because as i pointed out earlier: random sucks) in this case i agree. especially for c rank runs. thse missions are just too short/small for in order to be effective.

in order is not perfect (in fact ive seen it glitch in some wierd ways before like giving the same person about 4-5 rares in a row -but this is very rare-), but it is the fairest option.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 18, 2007, 06:19 PM

Decorations do not count as rare items, regardless of their star rating. This is a fact, go test it for yourself.

Set In Order always beats Random (except for missions where you will rarely get 6 rares in one run, but that doesn't matter, since anything S or above will have plenty of rares per run).

SolomonGrundy

Jun 18, 2007, 06:33 PM

the problem isn't "S" or above, the problem is B, and maaybe C.

B really seems to stick in people's craws.

-Tidus_415-

Jun 18, 2007, 06:47 PM

On 2007-06-18 16:19, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
Decorations do not count as rare items, regardless of their star rating. This is a fact, go test it for yourself.

Decorations do count as rare items. Anything 7* and up counts. I have run into lots of Jaos so I know because of people picking up Chicotite and Nanoresins in those last 2 rooms.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 18, 2007, 07:40 PM

On 2007-06-18 16:33, SolomonGrundy wrote:
the problem isn't "S" or above, the problem is B, and maaybe C.

B really seems to stick in people's craws.

And once you reach the level requirement for A/S/S2, why on earth would you ever touch B again? Nothing worthwhile drops there anyway. OH NOSE I GOT A KERSELINE INSTEAD OF A VULCALINE OOOOOOMG DRAMA.

On 2007-06-18 16:47, -Tidus_415- wrote:
Decorations do count as rare items. Anything 7* and up counts. I have run into lots of Jaos so I know because of people picking up Chicotite and Nanoresins in those last 2 rooms.

Drop logz plzkthx.

-Tidus_415-

Jun 18, 2007, 09:10 PM

If the 360 had a log I would show you but it doesnt. Go ahead. Take 4 people with you to do urgent orders. Dont pick up anything at all. Not even meseta. Once you kill the jao's go back and pick up 1 red box then jao then red box then jao ect. You should at least have 8 rares to pick up for enough proof.

Afterwards check your logs and tell me whos wrong http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ This Message was edited by: -Tidus_415- on 2007-06-18 19:17 ]

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 18, 2007, 09:19 PM

I'd try it, if I could find a party.

As it is, I've been looking for a C rank party to get some MP for my force for over 2 hours.

PALRAPPYS

Jun 18, 2007, 09:51 PM

I can't come to see why we're all still debating over something silly like this. We all know items get an assigned person when they're dropped. Heck, I sorta feel bad for Ffuzzy, because once he gets proved wrong, bet he'll feel pretty stupid. :/

Ok, here's how Order works, simply put. Bolded members are in the run at the start of the mission.

Here's the party:

A
Alfred

B
Billy

C
Carol

D
Dan

E
Eric

F
Fred

Order #1: DBEFAC

They start the run. Scape Doll drops. Dan gets it. They continue on. [b] uransara drops. Billy gets it. They go on. Kerseline drops. Eric gets it. Right after, vestaline drops. Alfred gets it. Vulcaline drops. Now, a new order is started, since person C is not in the party. Which causes a new order to be started, which is...

Order #2: ECDFBA

Eric received the vulcaline. Suddenly, a [b] scape doll drops. Before it's picked up, Carol joins the party. But, Dan receives the [b] scape doll instead of Carol. Then Fred joins. A [b] baji-line drops. Fred receives it. (Now, Billy would have received that if Fred hadn't joined in right then) Next, a vulcaline drops. Billy gets it. Mission ends and everyone goes through to the next lobby. The order is over, and a new order will start at the beginning of next mission.

Why don't people understand... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

SolomonGrundy

Jun 18, 2007, 10:07 PM

On 2007-06-18 17:40, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
[quote]On 2007-06-18 16:33, SolomonGrundy wrote:
the problem isn't "S" or above, the problem is B, and maaybe C.

B really seems to stick in people's craws.

And once you reach the level requirement for A/S/S2, why on earth would you ever touch B again? Nothing worthwhile drops there anyway. OH NOSE I GOT A KERSELINE INSTEAD OF A VULCALINE OOOOOOMG DRAMA.

3 reasons
1. speed runs for kitty claws, with a shot at puyo, and meow
2. leveling your alt.
3. can't find an A party

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 18, 2007, 10:44 PM

On 2007-06-18 19:51, PALRAPPYS wrote:
I can't come to see why we're all still debating over something silly like this.Neither can I, rofl.
We all know items get an assigned person when they're picked up.Fixed.
Heck, I sorta feel bad for Ffuzzy, because once he gets proved wrong, bet he'll feel pretty stupid. :/
I bet he won't, because he's right.

Anyway, I'm through trying to convince people of something I thought everyone agreed upon back in January. Go ahead and think I'm wrong, whatever, I'm just sitting here laughing at this whole topic anyway.

Sekani

Jun 18, 2007, 10:53 PM

On 2007-06-18 19:51, PALRAPPYS wrote:

Why don't people understand... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

Because actual and anecdotal evidence both say that you're wrong and Fuzzy's right.

Except on the decorations not counting as rares thing. Jury's still out on that one.

DurakkenX

Jun 18, 2007, 11:17 PM

Ok, let's say I'm a brain dead idiot with no ability to comprehend programming or basic logic...

Lets say I set rares to, i don't know, random, and I set normal items to say give finder.

Let's also say I'm playing with 6 other people...

Now I'm running around killing stuff and I suddenly see a decoration drop and it's something I want...

according to fuzzy...

I go YAY I FINALLY FOUND THAT DECORATION I WANT! I pick it up and it goes into my bag and says Durakken picked up cool decoration...cuz it doesn't count as a rare and hence must be a regular item and obviously means I get the decoration...

according to the game it goes something like...

OOOOOH COOL A DECORATION I WANT...and then I pick up and see "Player X gets decoration" and Durakken then Durakken boos and states he wanted that decoration, but didn't get it...and then kindly player X stabs durakken with the decoration.

There is absolutely no evidence to support anything to the contrary...
Like wise there is no evidence to support his other claim as it only logs when it is picked up and not when it drops which is important since if 2+ rares drop in the same room and you pick up nothing till the end and then pick them up no matter how much you monitor your logs you'll never get an accurate picture.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 18, 2007, 11:23 PM

I already proved that rares don't count until picked up. Did you not see my log, or did you just not understand it.

And concerning the room decorations. I may be wrong in saying they follow the normal item drop rules. It is also possible they follow the rare item rules, but are in a separate order than the rest of the rares. Meseta does this with normal item settings. If you have normal to Set In Order, there's an item order and a separate Meseta order. Rare room decs may very well do the same thing, but with the rare settings.

All I know is that rare room decorations do not behave normally in Set In Order. I'll try to figure out how exactly they do work if I ever get a chance. Someone has probably already tested it though, I'll ask around.

DurakkenX

Jun 19, 2007, 12:45 AM

On 2007-06-18 21:23, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
I already proved that rares don't count until picked up. Did you not see my log, or did you just not understand it.

i saw it and i told you why it doesn't mean anything but apparently the inability to read shows itself again...twice in the same topic by two dif people amazing.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 19, 2007, 10:55 AM

On 2007-06-18 22:45, DurakkenX wrote:
i saw it and i told you why it doesn't mean anything
Uh, no, all you said about it was:
On 2007-06-18 00:24, DurakkenX wrote:
Fuzzy...your logs do not support your claims...none of them

Mind explaining how it doesn't support my claim? I'd love to hear your explanation, really, I would.

DurakkenX

Jun 19, 2007, 11:40 AM

it only logs when it is picked up and not when it drops which is important since if 2+ rares drop in the same room and you pick up nothing till the end and then pick them up no matter how much you monitor your logs you'll never get an accurate picture.

shock...i quoted myself.

JAFO22000

Jun 19, 2007, 12:11 PM

Ffuzzy, this comment in your post showing your log:

Somewhere around this time (in the first room) a Scape Doll drops from a box and we do not pick it up.

...is the only thing that I could find to counter your logic. I do believe that what you say is correct, but one would have to assume that this actually did happen and that you're not conjecturing this statement to prove your point. Your point is not irrefutable. Only a video showing your party of three actually skipping a rare, then having what happened in your log take place would be proof.

PALRAPPYS

Jun 19, 2007, 12:19 PM

I say we get a video. Then we all can shut up about this.

Rashiid

Jun 19, 2007, 12:23 PM

i wish ST would just tell us how it works...

till then; Random ftw.

[ This Message was edited by: Rashiid on 2007-06-19 11:27 ]

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 19, 2007, 01:07 PM

On 2007-06-19 10:11, JAFO22000 wrote:
Ffuzzy, this comment in your post showing your log:

Somewhere around this time (in the first room) a Scape Doll drops from a box and we do not pick it up.

...is the only thing that I could find to counter your logic. I do believe that what you say is correct, but one would have to assume that this actually did happen and that you're not conjecturing this statement to prove your point. Your point is not irrefutable. Only a video showing your party of three actually skipping a rare, then having what happened in your log take place would be proof.

Yes, but you just have to take my word for it. Whether the general forum user here thinks so or not, I am one of the more reputable and trustworthy players, and this is definitely not a subject on which I would intentionally mislead anyone.

Oh, and Durakken, I suggest you reread my log post. You don't seem to understand it.

ljkkjlcm9

Jun 19, 2007, 01:34 PM

actually from my experience, I believe Fuzzy to be right.

Meseta is on a different order, I've had teams with set in order skip rares and all 6 people got rares before a person got another etc.

He may very well be right about the decorations being a different Set in Order like meseta is, that's a good question.

THE JACKEL

PMB960

Jun 19, 2007, 05:34 PM

I don't know if decorations are. I have seen 2 maybe 3 times where someone recieved 2 Jao decorations right in a row on set in order and I am pretty sure we didn't pick up 5 other decorations before that happened.

PMB960

Jun 19, 2007, 05:38 PM

[ This Message was edited by: PMB960 on 2007-06-19 23:04 ]

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 19, 2007, 11:42 PM

On 2007-06-19 15:38, PMB960 wrote:
I don't know about the decoration thing. I have seen 2 maybe 3 times where someone recieved 2 Jao decorations right in a row on set in order and I am pretty sure we didn't pick up 5 other decorations before that.

Which is why they probably just follow the order of normal items.

-Tidus_415-

Jun 19, 2007, 11:49 PM

Ive seen people get 2 rares in a row many times. All it just means is that the last person that got the rare became the 1st person in the new order of items.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 20, 2007, 12:07 AM

On 2007-06-19 21:49, -Tidus_415- wrote:
Ive seen people get 2 rares in a row many times. All it just means is that the last person that got the rare became the 1st person in the new order of items.

Duh...

But room decorations don't count in the typical rare order.

EDIT: Oh, wow, Tidus 4:15, as in the "hay gaiz look @ me, I gat a SJS 5 minutes after they activated ultimate legat I swear lololol oshi am b&" Tidus 4:15?

[ This Message was edited by: Ffuzzy-Logik on 2007-06-19 22:10 ]

-Tidus_415-

Jun 20, 2007, 12:35 AM

Room Decorations 7* and up do count in rare order...

[ This Message was edited by: -Tidus_415- on 2007-06-19 22:45 ]

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 20, 2007, 12:55 AM

On 2007-06-19 22:35, -Tidus_415- wrote:
Room Decorations 7* and up do count in rare order...
Proof?

Not like I'd trust you anyway, so lolz.

DurakkenX

Jun 20, 2007, 01:00 AM

You know... Ffuzzy it's the one who is making the claim that has the burden of proof. You have not given adequate proof for any of your claims. So until you provide adequate proof don't ask for proof of the more logical and observable way things work v.v

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 20, 2007, 01:06 AM

I've proved rares don't count until picked up. My log proves this. You are just too dense to understand it.

If the opportunity ever presents itself, I'll put up a log proving room decorations do not follow the typical rare order. Until then, stop trying to prove me wrong and go test it for yourself.

DurakkenX

Jun 20, 2007, 01:17 AM

you log proves nothing as i stated before. If i go through an entire mission and kill everything and everything drops a rare.... then afterwards i go back and pick everything up in a random order the logs will not show how those rares were divvied up because i do not have a log of what mob dropped what item and when that mob was killed as well as in what order i picked up each item and where it went.

All you keep saying is "my logs prove what i am saying" but your logs are not complete, don't prove what you are saying, and you are not explaining how you get what you are saying from what you are seeing.

Also according to what you are saying i should be able to see definable 3 character sequences in the pick up cycle which there is not which means you are wrong.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Jun 20, 2007, 01:32 AM

You know what? Just forget it. Why am I wasting my time arguing with someone who cannot be bothered to take the time to capitalize "i"?

Until someone with an intelligent opinion pops in, I'm done with this topic.

[ This Message was edited by: Ffuzzy-Logik on 2007-06-19 23:36 ]

Sekani

Jun 20, 2007, 01:43 AM

On 2007-06-19 23:06, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
I've proved rares don't count until picked up. My log proves this. You are just too dense to understand it.

Your logs alone aren't enough to disprove the rares-are-assigned-when-they're-picked-up theory. In order to definitively do that, you'd need some kind of log of what order the rare items dropped in addition to the order they were picked up. You made a mention of this in your log's explanation, but as you said yourself people would just have to take your word for it. Some people aren't willing to do that.

X-thirteen

Jun 20, 2007, 03:06 AM

calm down kids

-Tidus_415-

Jun 20, 2007, 11:56 AM

On 2007-06-19 22:55, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-06-19 22:35, -Tidus_415- wrote:
Room Decorations 7* and up do count in rare order...
Proof?

Not like I'd trust you anyway, so lolz.

Easy Proof. As I said. Do a Jao run with 4 people. 3 people will get Jao's and the 4th will get whatever other rare that drops. After that the order of rares will reset. Anyone that has done jao runs knows this. Why you do think people bitch on Jao runs when they get a Jao? Because now they dont have a chance to get a real rare (kitty claw, puyo, ect) until the order resets. So stop trying to think Decorations dont count as rares.

Sunflowers do not count as rares. They are below 7*'s.
Jao's do count as rares. They are above 7*'s.

Anything 7* and up counts as a rare. PERIOD.
Anything 6*and below counts as a regular item.

TheLOLBandit

Jun 20, 2007, 12:03 PM

i voted the not to waste good materials

but i keep my rares give finder ONLY WHEN IM HUNTING with people i trust friends that ive played with for a long time other than that when im playing with groups and trying to LVL they are on set in order but i dont want to waste good synth items for a CHANCE to get an S rank ....skipping those items items does not automatically give you an S rank drop. there is no reason to waste those item when chances are an S rank wont drop anyway

Wheatpenny

Jun 20, 2007, 12:21 PM

This just in, people state that set order realy doesent' work as it should. Officials are still investigating the cause More at 11.

Powder Keg

Jun 20, 2007, 09:43 PM

On 2007-06-19 23:32, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
You know what? Just forget it. Why am I wasting my time arguing with someone who cannot be bothered to take the time to capitalize "i"?

Until someone with an intelligent opinion pops in, I'm done with this topic.

[ This Message was edited by: Ffuzzy-Logik on 2007-06-19 23:36 ]

You....can't be serious?

FUFME

Jun 20, 2007, 09:46 PM

Order/Order Works, anything else is BS

[ This Message was edited by: FUFME on 2007-06-20 19:46 ]

DurakkenX

Jun 20, 2007, 11:59 PM

On 2007-06-20 19:43, Artea wrote:

On 2007-06-19 23:32, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
You know what? Just forget it. Why am I wasting my time arguing with someone who cannot be bothered to take the time to capitalize "i"?

Until someone with an intelligent opinion pops in, I'm done with this topic.

[ This Message was edited by: Ffuzzy-Logik on 2007-06-19 23:36 ]

You....can't be serious?

He is ^.^ but it's only an excuse and the real reason for his not taking what I say is really over another matter. We used to be friends if you can believe that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Shigecki

Jun 21, 2007, 11:32 AM

Room decoration do count in random/order runs. We do the FB missions on random for rares and give finder on normal. The person that picks up the joa statue doesn't always get the statue. If they were to be set in the same order as normal, this couldn't be possible.

Another thing about your log entry, if the order was set in let's say, BCDAFE for the six that should be in the party, and your friends were both C and A respectfully, and you were F, this could explain why B didn't register in the set in order, there wasn't anyone in the B slot and that slot was skipped. Because it was skipped no one received that item for their drop. When the next item was picked up it went to the slot it was intended. Simple to figure out really. There is no way to prove your theory vs my theory on who is right.

I think random is the best way to go in higher level runs because you don't have just one thing set for you to get, everything is up for grabs. Some runs you may get squat. Can you really judge anything on just one run? You really need many runs to judge any of these types of runs.

To all that have said that random is just for greedy people, how can this be the case? I prefer to run in a random order, meaning that I could possible be left out of the loop and receive nothing, how is that greedy? Set in order seems much more greedy, it's saying I want something, no matter what it is. Give me, give me, give me.

Just because there is the every once in a while run that generates a heavily weighted run to one person doesn't mean that is for greedy people, just ones that want a fair shot at something good. In a set in order run, only one person has a shot at a possible s-rank board. Not sure how you think this is fair. In a random order run everyone has a shot at the s-rank board. Sounds fair to me.

I run with a team, and we usually run with give finder and only pick up what we need or really want, in actuality I think this is the most fair. But from what I have read on the boards here I think we are the exception, not the rule.

[ This Message was edited by: Shigecki on 2007-06-21 09:34 ]

Astarin

Jun 21, 2007, 12:01 PM

On 2007-06-20 19:46, FUFME wrote:
Order/Order Works, anything else is BS

[ This Message was edited by: FUFME on 2007-06-20 19:46 ]

Frankly, I like that the best as well. I don't care for Random much anymore; I've been running Urgent Order since it came out, and have seen y'know, plenty of rare maps with Jaggo Sonichi. I've only ever gotten one room deco. That's it. I avoid Random games wherever possible now, since I'm sick of seeing a dozen Jaggos in a day and getting nothing from them.

And I like Order for normals too, because it distributes meseta and ban-photons evenly.

Rashiid

Jun 21, 2007, 12:04 PM

i know for a fact that room decors count (umm why wouldnt they?)
thats like saying 7*+ boards dont count. its still an item.

Alpha-Hunter

Jun 21, 2007, 12:13 PM

if there are more or equal drops to players then order means everyone gets something. Randon means everyone has a 'chance' at getting something, most things, or everything. There is no way to argue that everyone at least having a 'chance' at an item is better than everyone actually 'getting' an item.

if your arguement is soley based on getting that one S rank item as opposed to fair distribution among team members regardless of item then you are indeed greedy.

[ This Message was edited by: Alpha-Hunter on 2007-06-21 10:15 ]

ljkkjlcm9

Jun 21, 2007, 12:14 PM

On 2007-06-21 09:32, Shigecki wrote:
I run with a team, and we usually run with give finder and only pick up what we need or really want, in actuality I think this is the most fair. But from what I have read on the boards here I think we are the exception, not the rule.

[ This Message was edited by: Shigecki on 2007-06-21 09:34 ]

that's the best way, but everyone is greedy. With something like the Jaggo, people would literally stand there waiting for them to die instead of killing them. I remember the old give finder games when everyone would stop fighting and bolt for the red item when it dropped.

THE JACKEL

Shigecki

Jun 21, 2007, 01:22 PM

On 2007-06-21 10:13, Alpha-Hunter wrote:
if there are more or equal drops to players then order means everyone gets something. Randon means everyone has a 'chance' at getting something, most things, or everything. There is no way to argue that everyone at least having a 'chance' at an item is better than everyone actually 'getting' an item.

I guess I'm at a different stage in this game then you are. I have everything that I need to have, good weapons, money, good armor, a loving PM (lol). I don't need to get something in every run that I do. I would just like the chance at getting something that drops, not the item that is set for me to get. I have no need for teranite, chicotite or really any of the items that are for synthing, I usually give these away, even when I'm in someone else's game with people that I don't know.

On 2007-06-21 10:13, Alpha-Hunter wrote:
if your arguement is soley based on getting that one S rank item as opposed to fair distribution among team members regardless of item then you are indeed greedy.

That was just an example. Like I said in my original post, and asked in my original post, how is not caring if I get skipped, but having a chance at getting something good being greedy? There isn't a true "fair" distribution of items just because everyone gets something.

The game has too big of a description of what a rare is. Anything that is 7* or above. With such a large number of items falling into this category, there is no way to make it a "fair" distribution of anything. Just because everyone receives something doesn't make it fair. It just means that everyone received something that was 7* or above, not that it was "fair".

I think I'm a little different from a lot of players. I gave away the bearclaw board, a meow mustache and two puyoment auras that I received in a few games. I had no need or want for either item. But I guess because I want it put on random I'm a greedy bastard. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif I have more money then I know what to do with because the payout for these runs are so huge (28500 per A rank run).

Before you judge someone, at least know what and who you are talking about please.

On 2007-06-21 10:14, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
that's the best way, but everyone is greedy. With something like the Jaggo, people would literally stand there waiting for them to die instead of killing them. I remember the old give finder games when everyone would stop fighting and bolt for the red item when it dropped.

THE JACKEL

I know what you mean. This was the type of thing that almost made me quit PSO on the Xbox until I met a good group of people.

SolomonGrundy

Jun 21, 2007, 01:38 PM

maybe that's it: some players are at the stage of the game where they ONLY want/need the S ranks. Some players are not. While I would think most players are at the point of assembling wealth still, I can see how this could cause some friction with those who do not.

then again, that could just boil down to a different kind of greed. Using set random with players who do still want to obtain chicotite, etc is asking them to rely on your good will to drop these items at the end of runs.

A better solution is for sega to add another level of item distribution (normal, rare, S rank). I don't think anyone could complain about a set up where normal and rare are placed in set in order, and S ranks were placed on random.

Alpha-Hunter

Jun 21, 2007, 02:45 PM

On 2007-06-21 11:22, Shigecki wrote:
I guess I'm at a different stage in this game then you are. I have everything that I need to have, good weapons, money, good armor, a loving PM (lol). I don't need to get something in every run that I do. I would just like the chance at getting something that drops, not the item that is set for me to get. I have no need for teranite, chicotite or really any of the items that are for synthing, I usually give these away, even when I'm in someone else's game with people that I don't know.

wrong, i also have good weapons (a few 50%'s and all 9 stars), money, ok armor (could be better) and several pure PM's (every but tech). i have no need for any of that stuff either, but some people may. set is not 100% fair, i'll never disagree with that. but there is no way you can convince anyone that being selfish and only caring about what you want is better than everyone getting a chance to see their name in red atleast once a game. no matter what the item is. i'm not one of those people that say "man I got "kersed"(kerseline), lol.

On 2007-06-21 10:13, Shigecki wrote:
That was just an example. Like I said in my original post, and asked in my original post, how is not caring if I get skipped, but having a chance at getting something good being greedy? There isn't a true "fair" distribution of items just because everyone gets something.

The game has too big of a description of what a rare is. Anything that is 7* or above. With such a large number of items falling into this category, there is no way to make it a "fair" distribution of anything. Just because everyone receives something doesn't make it fair. It just means that everyone received something that was 7* or above, not that it was "fair".

in set you still have a chance to get a "good' item. who said that set order auto skips Shigecki as standard programming?

and rare is rare. at one point you needed that crap, as we all had at one time. hell, some people still need that stuff and order makes sure that those people never (or rarely) leave a game empty handed.

[/quote]I think I'm a little different from a lot of players. I gave away the bearclaw board, a meow mustache and two puyoment auras that I received in a few games. I had no need or want for either item. But I guess because I want it put on random I'm a greedy bastard. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif I have more money then I know what to do with because the payout for these runs are so huge (28500 per A rank run).

Before you judge someone, at least know what and who you are talking about please.[/quote]

i never called you selfish. I just said I consider it greedy to not considering what others may want out of their runs, which in most cases is just something. you'd be surprised how many people end up with squat and don't play enough to get great items like you. so you have everything you need. others do not. and i respect that you give away such good items, but as you said yourself you didn't want or need any of those items. even so you obviously have enough money to buy them later yourself so....

Alpha-Hunter

Jun 21, 2007, 03:32 PM

On 2007-06-21 11:22, Shigecki wrote:
I guess I'm at a different stage in this game then you are. I have everything that I need to have, good weapons, money, good armor, a loving PM (lol). I don't need to get something in every run that I do. I would just like the chance at getting something that drops, not the item that is set for me to get. I have no need for teranite, chicotite or really any of the items that are for synthing, I usually give these away, even when I'm in someone else's game with people that I don't know.

wrong, i also have good weapons (a few 50%'s and all 9 stars), money, ok armor (could be better) and several pure PM's (every but tech). i have no need for any of that stuff either, but some people may. set is not 100% fair, i'll never disagree with that. but there is no way you can convince anyone that being selfish and only caring about what you want is better than everyone getting a chance to see their name in red atleast once a game. no matter what the item is. i'm not one of those people that say "man I got "kersed"(kerseline), lol.

On 2007-06-21 10:13, Shigecki wrote:
That was just an example. Like I said in my original post, and asked in my original post, how is not caring if I get skipped, but having a chance at getting something good being greedy? There isn't a true "fair" distribution of items just because everyone gets something.

The game has too big of a description of what a rare is. Anything that is 7* or above. With such a large number of items falling into this category, there is no way to make it a "fair" distribution of anything. Just because everyone receives something doesn't make it fair. It just means that everyone received something that was 7* or above, not that it was "fair".

in set you still have a chance to get a "good' item. who said that set order auto skips Shigecki as standard programming?

and rare is rare. at one point you needed that crap, as we all had at one time. hell, some people still need that stuff and order makes sure that those people never (or rarely) leave a game empty handed.

I think I'm a little different from a lot of players. I gave away the bearclaw board, a meow mustache and two puyoment auras that I received in a few games. I had no need or want for either item. But I guess because I want it put on random I'm a greedy bastard. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif I have more money then I know what to do with because the payout for these runs are so huge (28500 per A rank run).

Before you judge someone, at least know what and who you are talking about please.

i never called you greedy. I just said I consider it greedy to not considering what others may want out of their runs, which in most cases is just something. you'd be surprised how many people end up with squat and don't play enough to get great items like you. so you have everything you need. others do not. and i respect that you give away such good items, but as you said yourself you didn't want or need any of those items. even so you obviously have enough money to buy them later yourself so....