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View Full Version : The bees are actually kinda dangerous now!



Jife_Jifremok
Jun 18, 2007, 12:03 PM
Unfortunately, I didn't think to get any pics to prove this. But when I fought some mizura in Mad Beasts S2, they actually turned and moved, and even had a ram attack. I guess they're no longer good targets for leveling bullets.

Flwl3ssCowboy
Jun 18, 2007, 12:05 PM
I thought they always did that?

JAFO22000
Jun 18, 2007, 12:06 PM
Um, they have always done that. You do understand that all enemies get stronger and more aggressive at higher levels, right? You are fighting them at level 100 in this mission. Also, as the title of the missions states, they are quite "Mad".

Shiryuu
Jun 18, 2007, 12:06 PM
... they've always done that.

Jife_Jifremok
Jun 18, 2007, 12:12 PM
Um...no. Back when Mad Beasts S2 was new, I used to just stand behind the bees and let loose. Only like once or twice before had I actually seen bees MOVE, but in this one run that I did they moved around a lot. This was probably how they were supposed to be to begin with.

Rashiid
Jun 18, 2007, 12:13 PM
Bees were always like this bud.

HFlowen
Jun 18, 2007, 12:20 PM
I've always remembered bees as just stationary little turrets that only turn when you knock them down. The robot bees are the only ones I know to move often.

JAFO22000
Jun 18, 2007, 12:21 PM
On 2007-06-18 10:12, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
Um...no. Back when Mad Beasts S2 was new, I used to just stand behind the bees and let loose. Only like once or twice before had I actually seen bees MOVE, but in this one run that I did they moved around a lot. This was probably how they were supposed to be to begin with.



Nope, the bees have always "moved around a lot".

gambit04
Jun 18, 2007, 12:24 PM
Maybe you have the bees confused with a box I dunno I've always had the bees do that to me >.> poor lil techer she just goes tumbling across the screen.

Tulio07
Jun 18, 2007, 12:30 PM
I've stood behind bees and then went afk for a bathroom break or for food ... not once did i get hit

HFlowen
Jun 18, 2007, 12:30 PM
On 2007-06-18 10:30, Tulio07 wrote:
I've stood behind bees and then went afk for a bathroom break or for food ... not once did i get hit

This.

LoneDespo
Jun 18, 2007, 12:32 PM
I heard that the PS2 version's bees didn't do much except buzz around occasionally and shoot. Have you fought them since you switched to the PC version?

Niloklives
Jun 18, 2007, 12:32 PM
no he's right. mizrua are unlike any other Bee. they are completely stationary - even on mad beasts S2.

however they no longer have set directions they face like in other missions. they actually turn and face you when they first spawn. as far as ram attacks, I have never seen this and am fairly certain it can't happen. I've never heard of monsters getting new attacks as they level.

To those of you who actually think mizura chase you like other bees, unless you've been playing for a week, there's no excuse for not knowing enemy attack patterns.

Sexy_Raine
Jun 18, 2007, 12:33 PM
I usually have no problems with them. When there are mutiple people in your party, in the area, there is a chance of them teleporting and they can aim at you from somewhere else.

panzer_unit
Jun 18, 2007, 12:35 PM
Seriously, if you just ran around the little jerks and did nothing but shoot fire and use regular melee attacks on them from behind they'd live and die without ever changing directions or anything.

However you can bet on at least one teammate running up in front of the bees taking the stinging of their life, and then PAing them all over the place so everyone else takes tons of damage and nasty statuses too. Maybe that's why people think they do anything at all.

Jife_Jifremok
Jun 18, 2007, 12:39 PM
On 2007-06-18 10:32, LoneDespo wrote:
I heard that the PS2 version's bees didn't do much except buzz around occasionally and shoot. Have you fought them since you switched to the PC version?



Well, the experience I described was the only time I've fought bees on the PC version. Hmm...platform-specific enemy behavior?

LoneDespo
Jun 18, 2007, 12:45 PM
On 2007-06-18 10:39, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

Well, the experience I described was the only time I've fought bees on the PC version. Hmm...platform-specific enemy behavior?



Yeah, that's what a friend had told me. Considering that there are other differences, like feathers from the rabol rappy guard animation, etc. Tbh, I've never met a PS2 player who has problems with bees. But PC ver's bees have always been vicious little b-..uh...yeah. Well you get the point.

Neith
Jun 18, 2007, 12:50 PM
Bees have always done the formation dive attack on me, since back when Mad Beasts was released (and I mean Mad Beasts in general, not just S2).

They're still not hard though, even at Lv105- they just take a while to kill for the amount of EXP they give >_>

gambit04
Jun 18, 2007, 12:50 PM
On 2007-06-18 10:39, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

On 2007-06-18 10:32, LoneDespo wrote:
I heard that the PS2 version's bees didn't do much except buzz around occasionally and shoot. Have you fought them since you switched to the PC version?



Well, the experience I described was the only time I've fought bees on the PC version. Hmm...platform-specific enemy behavior?



You know what is funny I'm starting to think there is platform-specific behavior for a few different things...>.> which would do nothing but cause trouble in the community! If ST has done any such thing then this would cause quite an arguement...oh wait...

SolomonGrundy
Jun 18, 2007, 12:51 PM
uh, I used to solo mad beast and the bees turned to face me too. That's why I never understood the pits here that said bees are easy.

This is specifically mizura I am talking about.

HFlowen
Jun 18, 2007, 12:53 PM
Mizuras have always just been turrets to me. I'm ps2 by the way.

Jife_Jifremok
Jun 18, 2007, 12:57 PM
More ammo to shoot at the ST Fucked Up fire. <_<

Sexy_Raine
Jun 18, 2007, 01:14 PM
The Abejas didn't need an HP nerf. There, I said it.

Golto
Jun 18, 2007, 01:18 PM
There is a definate problem when in a mixed party (pc and ps2 players), enemies teleport a lot. This is really only a problem with mizuras as they are stationary unless they are knocked around for me at least. When I play w/ other ps2 players they do not teleport.

KidoKresh
Jun 18, 2007, 05:10 PM
the bees always do that. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Deus-Irae
Jun 18, 2007, 06:37 PM
On 2007-06-18 10:32, NIloklives wrote:
I've never heard of monsters getting new attacks as they level.


go play A rank Unsafe Passage and then try S rank.

Garnet_Moon
Jun 18, 2007, 06:59 PM
On 2007-06-18 16:37, Deus-Irae wrote:

On 2007-06-18 10:32, NIloklives wrote:
I've never heard of monsters getting new attacks as they level.


go play A rank Unsafe Passage and then try S rank.


This isn't pokemon. Pannon does not evolve or digivolve into a Bel Pannon. They just... um... well, shit. What DOES happen...?

Mayu
Jun 18, 2007, 07:06 PM
Been doing that <.<

Quite annoying

Jakosifer
Jun 18, 2007, 07:52 PM
Mizuras have never turned and attacked me at all, and Ive never seen a thing about a ram attack. O.o

The Endrum Bees are a different story though.

Natasha_M
Jun 18, 2007, 08:28 PM
I'm surprised it took this long for people to bring this up, having both versions its true, The PS2 have it easier since the Mizura have a imcomplete AI. While the PC version have the actively aggressive Mizura with the ram attack that doesn't exist on the PS2 version.

When the ram attack does happen on the PC version the PS2 players will only see it as harmlessly teleporting to another side of the field or behind them in this case.

The annouyance with the ram attack is they are untouchable while purple ramming just like the bil de bears spin attack.

necman
Jun 18, 2007, 08:36 PM
Ok so your telling me if I was on ps2 instead of pc the bees would do nothing but stand there looking stupid. Sure I believe you(insert sarcastic remarks here).

pikachief
Jun 18, 2007, 09:40 PM
bees always rammed shot and flew around so i cant smack them! >:{

idk wat bees your fighting...

RedX
Jun 18, 2007, 09:43 PM
PS2 bee's apparently >.>

-Tidus_415-
Jun 18, 2007, 09:43 PM
Yeah...Back when I was on the PS2 version they would just stand there and shoot. Now that im on the 360 version they move around by ramming you X_X

Jakosifer
Jun 18, 2007, 10:04 PM
Yep, Im on PS2...Odd, I wonder if sega is gonna fix that. >_> *hopes they don't*

RedX
Jun 18, 2007, 10:10 PM
Thee one advantage of being a PS2 user, easier bee's. XD

Proff
Jun 19, 2007, 02:41 AM
I used to always wonder why people complained about Mizuras in Lab (getting beeless maps seemed important). I've been on PS2 since day one and never have had a problem with them. On my version they stay absolutely stationary and just fire in front of them. You can run behind them an pummel away until they're dead with no retaliation (unless you knock them down, in which case they just get back up facing you). I have never seen them move except when they're getting back up or spawning. I have never seen them do any other attack except for firing forward.

Sometimes Sonic Team strikes me as amateurs.

Shiro_Ryuu
Jun 19, 2007, 05:08 AM
Man, those things are nothing compared to the bees of old that had uber high evasion.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-06-19 03:10 ]</font>

Niloklives
Jun 19, 2007, 05:12 AM
On 2007-06-18 16:37, Deus-Irae wrote:

On 2007-06-18 10:32, NIloklives wrote:
I've never heard of monsters getting new attacks as they level.


go play A rank Unsafe Passage and then try S rank.



Are you insane? you're comparing delsaban to deljaban.

I'm comparing mizura to mizura.

you may as well compare go vahras to polavohra the way you're talking. the monster are replaced with new ones from S and on. and you can argue that the enemy itsel changed as a result of being a higher level. but each change in enemy asside frm aggressiveness comes with either a name change or element change.

Lightning Mizura will never gain new abilities. the only possibility is that mizura be replaced with a new enemy at higher level which have more attack options than Mizura. however mizura are mizura are mizura. and that's all there is to it.

And the reason people are making a lot of these assertions about bees is because many are still under the impressin that all bees are the same. Mizure stand still. they are the only bee that does. every other bee moves around. this is on either PS2 OR PC. check enemy names first.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-06-19 03:15 ]</font>

JAFO22000
Jun 19, 2007, 10:15 AM
On 2007-06-19 03:12, NIloklives wrote:
And the reason people are making a lot of these assertions about bees is because many are still under the impressin that all bees are the same. Mizure stand still. they are the only bee that does. every other bee moves around. this is on either PS2 OR PC. check enemy names first.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-06-19 03:15 ]</font>


You are being quite obtuse here. People who have played both the PS2 and another (PC or 360) version of the game have explicitly stated that the Mizura act differently on each version. I do not believe that they are mistaking Mizura for Bugges (as you seem to think), rather that the PS2 Mizura seem to just float in air and not do anything, while the PC and 360 Mizura actually move around and attack with their charge move.

I think this should be a huge area of discussion. Coupled with the thread a few days ago about how changing the frame rate on the PC can simplify fighting Vandas and you can essentially have 3 different versions of the game.

VanHalen
Jun 19, 2007, 10:41 AM
On 2007-06-18 18:36, necman wrote:
Ok so your telling me if I was on ps2 instead of pc the bees would do nothing but stand there looking stupid. Sure I believe you(insert sarcastic remarks here).



They do. Some guy had me stand there (basically waste my monomates doing this) to tell him what the bees are doing. I was pretty damn confused since I thought that they all do those tackle and shoot dart things. According to him on his television all they did was stand there.

Niloklives
Jun 19, 2007, 05:17 PM
I play with a lot of PC users and they all stand with me while I shoot mizura fom behind. everyone stands still, everyone shoots, no one gets hit.

Now all other types of bugs beside mizura DO movea around for me and my PC friends. so it seems odd that the mizura would act differently if they were not intended to. I can't imagine frame rate would be a factor, but if it is, this sounds more like a software bug (no pun intended) than anything else.

But seeing as how I meet a lot of people that make the mistake of thinking all monsters that look similar are the same, and don't even really look at the name; I'm quite prone to thinking this may be the case for some people here. further more not everyone knows about mizura behavior. pop-ups vs knock back and what they do to mizura in particular. couple that with bad lag for teleporting enemies and we might see some crazy stuff.

either way I want to see a video of this before I can believe it.

Shiro_Ryuu
Jun 19, 2007, 05:59 PM
On 2007-06-19 03:12, NIloklives wrote:

On 2007-06-18 16:37, Deus-Irae wrote:

On 2007-06-18 10:32, NIloklives wrote:
I've never heard of monsters getting new attacks as they level.


go play A rank Unsafe Passage and then try S rank.



Are you insane? you're comparing delsaban to deljaban.

I'm comparing mizura to mizura.

you may as well compare go vahras to polavohra the way you're talking. the monster are replaced with new ones from S and on. and you can argue that the enemy itsel changed as a result of being a higher level. but each change in enemy asside frm aggressiveness comes with either a name change or element change.

Lightning Mizura will never gain new abilities. the only possibility is that mizura be replaced with a new enemy at higher level which have more attack options than Mizura. however mizura are mizura are mizura. and that's all there is to it.

And the reason people are making a lot of these assertions about bees is because many are still under the impressin that all bees are the same. Mizure stand still. they are the only bee that does. every other bee moves around. this is on either PS2 OR PC. check enemy names first.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-06-19 03:15 ]</font>


Well, even so, at higher ranks, some monsters that stay the same do become troublesome. Like in Labs, at S, the Volfus are pretty much the most useless enemy that has ever come to existence, they were slow and their attacks amounted to nothing, and this was back when my character was at level 40-50 something. Now lets move to S2 and OMG! Did that Volfu just take out 1/2 of my life? This is a lv 70-something guy with neutral armor btw.

Soukosa
Jun 19, 2007, 07:46 PM
On 2007-06-19 15:17, NIloklives wrote:
I play with a lot of PC users and they all stand with me while I shoot mizura fom behind. everyone stands still, everyone shoots, no one gets hit.

Now all other types of bugs beside mizura DO movea around for me and my PC friends. so it seems odd that the mizura would act differently if they were not intended to. I can't imagine frame rate would be a factor, but if it is, this sounds more like a software bug (no pun intended) than anything else.

I believe it was stated before that Mizura won't turn around if you hit them from behind. If enough people are hitting it from behind, it'll probably get stunned locked and not move at all.

If you don't do that, then yes, they will move around. While leveling my FT in areas that had them, I didn't bother to get behind them since techs don't miss them. They would move slowly to either side rather often and occasionally do a ram attack at you. And no, I'm not confusing them with the endrum robots. Those don't spawn in raffon lakeside or any relics site last I checked, which is where I usually saw Mizura at. I tended to stay away from the endrum missions since Kahones are evil bastards that like to barrel roll to the side right before the damn tech hits them.

Niloklives
Jun 19, 2007, 07:56 PM
I tell you they don't move. if you're hittng them with techs, of course they're going to get pushed. but since you want to insist that Mizura chase after you; which they have never, in the 2000 hours I've played this game, done; I would like to see a video showing proof.

Deus-Irae
Jun 19, 2007, 08:08 PM
On 2007-06-19 03:12, NIloklives wrote:

On 2007-06-18 16:37, Deus-Irae wrote:

On 2007-06-18 10:32, NIloklives wrote:
I've never heard of monsters getting new attacks as they level.


go play A rank Unsafe Passage and then try S rank.



Are you insane? you're comparing delsaban to deljaban.

I'm comparing mizura to mizura.


i was responding to the what you said in the quote.

if you're going to argue that Delsaban are comepletely different monsters than Deljaban, then we have little to discuss.

ill just say that i disagree that monsters dont gain new abilities/attacks as the level.

GStealth
Jun 19, 2007, 08:18 PM
Yea... Bees are stationary on PS2, but PC users are cursed with super aggressive bees that tackle you and refuse to turn away from you... Poor PC users http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Kaloa
Jun 19, 2007, 09:08 PM
This thread was certainly an interesting read. I had no idea bee's actually ever did anything. I wish my PC could handle PSU so I could take a run through lab or something and see how the bee's are supposed to be.

RedX
Jun 19, 2007, 09:22 PM
On 2007-06-19 19:08, Kaloa wrote:
This thread was certainly an interesting read. I had no idea bee's actually ever did anything. I wish my PC could handle PSU so I could take a run through lab or something and see how the bee's are supposed to be.



You don't want to know, they're pretty bad. They almost never stand still.

Garnet_Moon
Jun 19, 2007, 09:31 PM
To whoever keeps saying Mizura do not move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y5YVwqS-2k

EDIT: That last line was rude. Please watch the video which I so painstakingly created just for you just now.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2007-06-19 19:41 ]</font>

Eleina
Jun 19, 2007, 10:02 PM
Yes bees move around and it's very annoying <.< they are incredibly annoying to dodge as well (yak zagenga user)

DEM_CIG
Jun 19, 2007, 10:52 PM
they so piss me off i would rather fight a jarba...

Proff
Jun 20, 2007, 03:33 AM
On 2007-06-19 19:31, Garnet_Moon wrote:
To whoever keeps saying Mizura do not move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y5YVwqS-2k

EDIT: That last line was rude. Please watch the video which I so painstakingly created just for you just now.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2007-06-19 19:41 ]</font>

Wow, weird. I guess I'm glad I'm on ps2 then. They're harmless.

Garnet_Moon
Jun 20, 2007, 11:00 AM
On 2007-06-20 01:33, Proff wrote:

On 2007-06-19 19:31, Garnet_Moon wrote:
To whoever keeps saying Mizura do not move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y5YVwqS-2k

EDIT: That last line was rude. Please watch the video which I so painstakingly created just for you just now.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2007-06-19 19:41 ]</font>

Wow, weird. I guess I'm glad I'm on ps2 then. They're harmless.


If you run, they chase you down. If you charge them, they charge you. If you shoot them, they shoot you. Like the 360 which doesn't have Sonic Heroe's or TrickTrack, i'm sure this is one of the things the PS2 doesn't have; moving Bees.

Helly
Jun 21, 2007, 07:14 PM
On 2007-06-19 19:31, Garnet_Moon wrote:
To whoever keeps saying Mizura do not move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y5YVwqS-2k

EDIT: That last line was rude. Please watch the video which I so painstakingly created just for you just now.

This is... the worst thing that can happen...

I had no idea Mizura could be rough! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Wonder if they'll have complete AI in AoI PS2?

Aralia
Jun 22, 2007, 03:09 AM
On PS2 the bees used to stand still. All you people who have no recollection of this are obviously PC users.

Not sure about 360, but I'm willing to bet it was like the PC.

pikachief
Jun 22, 2007, 03:18 AM
On 2007-06-19 19:31, Garnet_Moon wrote:
To whoever keeps saying Mizura do not move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y5YVwqS-2k

EDIT: That last line was rude. Please watch the video which I so painstakingly created just for you just now.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2007-06-19 19:41 ]</font>


LUCKY!!!

on the 360 they knock me aroudn SO MUCH! they do the dash thing constantly and are always movign side to side, and their shots almsot always poison!

they are CONSTANTLY moving and attacking on the 360! I think it may be the MOST active enemy on 360! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif