The positives and negatives of duping. POST YOUR THOUGHTS!

[Tiger]

OK this is going to be a very heated discussion and I don't want things to get out of hand. I ask that you please read the following very carefully:

This topic is offered as a source of thoughts and opinions. Not all ideas, thoughts or opinions will be applicable to users. Readers/users must make thier own judgement regarding the practicality and benifits of points put forward by others. In conditions that you post I ask that you do not:

1. Post any content that would restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the topic.

2. Post or transmit any unlawful, threatening, abusive, libellous, defamatory, obscene, vulgar, pornographic, profane or indecent information of any kind, including without limitation any transmissions constituting or encouraging conduct that would constitute a criminal offence, give rise to civil liability or otherwise violate any local, national or international law.

[LollipopLolita]

good starter post. also, please don't post duping methods.

[Tiger]

Now that the rules are set, this is what I think:

First of all, duping is a form of cheating. It's unethical, and its a violation of many laws that you signed in the contract for the hunters license. It clearly states "You shall not: Make copies of this program or any part thereof, or make copies of the materials accompanying this program." Bottom line duping is wrong. Thats just the bottom line, you buy the game, you dont dupe.

Seriously, you really think people won't dupe? Yeh right! PSO is like hmm well I'd like to say "too much of a good thing". Yep thats exactly what it is. Its like having hot dogs every day for the rest of your life. You get sick of it. I mean limitations are extreme in this game. You hear japanese version gets new quests, and even a refund disc cause duping took over thier version. The day sega does that for us is a miracle. Ok you have the same levels, battle is merely nothing with the lag. Soccer is too laggy. And they hardly add challenges, and barely add quests. Then you have to work hundreds of hours to get something decent. Yeh its cool but thats 1 item, and you may not even be able to use it!!! There isnt a keyboard so that limits you even more. So you got a few extra rare weapons. your happy everyones happy.

Here's the bottom line: Duping does not mean ANYTHING unless you personally take the item. Now if everyone was to not take an item given to them by a duper, we'd be in heaven. No these arent all transmitted thru trading. You got it wrong there. They give them out I know because I once did such a thing. I've changed my ways though. Sega is also to blame for not updating and keep PSO up to par. PSO has "Everquest" written all over it. You know why it isn't everquest? Cause sega does nothing about the problem. Maybe adding a few quests every week, would do something. Personally, I feel right now, duping is the best thing for the PSO community.

[Sapphire87]

I agree that if one doesn't like the idea of duping, don't accept any items that you suspect are dups. Simple as that. Personally, I wish any form of cheating was not possible on PSO. But realistically, I'll accept the fact that it's "to each his own". If someone wants to dup and give them out and people accept them freely than fine with me. As long as I can live with the fact that it won't affect me as long as I don't accept the rares myself. If the person on my team wants to whip out a duped rare, as long as he's happy, I'm content. I'm not going to criticize him because that is his choice. To me, owning such rares would not be a requisite on whether I like or hate the person.

[SnAPPUrU-nyan-ko]

Good: Well, the anti-dupe saving system screws people whether the game crashes (FSOD) or the person tries to duplicate items by dropping items and not saving. It would be lovely to keep backups of weapons; then I'd carry more than one s-rank weapon online at a time. Heck, I'd actually be willing to use the lobby transporter when wanting to switch games, rather than disconnecting.

Bad?: Maybe sonic team put date of births on items, so if you have a whole bunch at the same time, you get owned? I doubt it, but I'm a paranoid nerd :3.

Who cares?: I always felt that it's hard to be superior on an online roleplaying game, since after a while people have most the rares and maxed stats just by playing.

[lockeboy]

Positive: I see none, aside from that some selfish people get a kick out of it (positive for them, not me).

Negative: Not going to write it out, because I could go on for hours. Plain and simple, I feel duping is wrong, and everything possible should be done to prevent it. It disgusts me, really, that some people would be so inconsiderate towards other players. Duping makes the game much less enjoyable for those who prefer, like myself, to be just. If someone were to offer me a duped item I'd refuse, even if it would make my character the most powerful in the entire world.

So .. uh .. yeah. I'm done. http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_cowsleep.gif

[Tiger]

How is it being inconsiderate to other players if you merely dupe for yourself? I find nothing wrong with it. Heck you know what? If there was 2 servers, 1 pure legit, 1 non-legit, mostly everyone would be non-legit. People like getting items without the work. I could say play for hundreds of hours and not get a rare item. Do you know how boring and tedious that is? Not to mention, if you play online and that happens, a rare comes up. But you got 3 other people rushing towards that same item. So theoretically (sp) those say 300 hours of gaming depend on that 25% chance that you have of getting that rare. YOu dont get it BOOM there goes all the hard work. You get it, well you got a rare. Then there is a 40% chance you won't even be able to use the rare item that you found.

Well sure there is trading. Nothing is like finding a rare though. Your very reluctant to give it up. Trading is a frustrating experience also without a KB.

Sure duping is wrong because its when you do it your exploiting a glitch in the game system. What is so wrong with it? Let's talk about the PSO Duping story of Bob:

Bob is level 138 and is growing tired of the basic hit and kill then repeat, action. Bob also has lost 3 of his rare items he has found to FSOD, which is a glitch in the game. Bob finds a 12 star rare item from a monster. Everyone is talking about it now that he has it. Heck, people even claim its not even a real weapon. He's the talk of ragol, a mere duplicate of a great PSO star! His finding is posted on PSO world, and many other PSO sites. He is the only person to have this weapon. While playing 1 day he suddenly FSOD's without warning. Bob try's to contact Sega, waits 3 days for a response in e-mail stating nothing could be done.

What did Bob do to deserve this? He did absolutely nothing. A hard working PSO gamer loses a rare weapon that he is the only one to have. It was lost to a simple glitch that he did not exploit, it was just a flaw in the program.

Though this situation could not be prevented, it could be helped. If Bob was to duplicate that item and store 1 in the bank for a back-up, he would still have that item. Now I'm not saying 2 wrong things make a right, I'm just saying there is solutions that could have helped the situation.

Now as of right now Bob is a legit guy. But let's say he duped his item to make sure that FSOD wouldnt happen. He is doing nothing else right now keep in mind. If the situation was to stop right there, duping is fine with me. Lets continue.

Bob talks to a group of people who are EXACTLY like Bob and they talk about their rares. They all agree to duplicate their own items. They share the items and keep those items ONLY WITHIN THE GROUP. As of right now they dont share with anyone else. Duping I feel is still right, in that situation.

Now let's say Bob takes an item and wants to trade with someone. He tells the person the item is duped, yet the person still wants to trade. Was bob wrong with the decision? Or was he right for trading after asking. I think its ok if he accepted the item even if it was a dupe. THe person knew it. On the other hand thats how rare items get spread. I dunno it's just hmmm well.

BOTTOM LINE: It's up to the user to accept the duplicated item, whether they know if it's duped or not is up for the user to decide.

[BonusKun]

Tiger,
This was a good post and I understand the reasons behind seeing as I lost my fucking 70% A beast Justice Mechguns to FSOD.

They were real legit guns and i lost them forever. I dunno about some of you but the game freezeing up like that and me losing one of my most favorite mechs pissed me the fuck off.

I have no problem with duping even tho I don't do it myself but, if you're going to dupe at least don't bullshit people about it.

One of the things I hate in PSO are people who said they found a Double Cannon or a Black King Bar.

That kinda crap just wears thin on my nuts...

[Tiger]

bro u need to chill out with the language other then that, you had a good post http://www.pso-world.com/psoworld/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Mag_Launcher]

I take dupes mostly for the purpose of collecting more weapons. My real goal right now is to collect all 59 known rare guns. (59 known for now... I got a list typed up if you want.) But i'm not gonna spread these guns around like a jackass, though. Sure, I'm gonna have to spread SOME stuff around to get what I want, but hey, at least I'm not the cheap bastard with the Spread Needle killing everything.

I take dupes for personal gain ONLY, I have no intention of ruining PSO's rare "economy."

[RagMasterRappy]

Bad: Duping makes special rare items not so rare
Good: The dumbass who trys to dupe gets his stupid memory card corrupted

[Wewt]

On 2002-12-18 09:39, RagMasterRappy wrote:
Good: The dumbass who trys to dupe gets his stupid memory card corrupted



My friend just showed me 99 Photon Spheres.

[RagMasterRappy]

On 2002-12-18 13:32, WWWWWWWWWWWW wrote:

On 2002-12-18 09:39, RagMasterRappy wrote:
Good: The dumbass who trys to dupe gets his stupid memory card corrupted



My friend just showed me 99 Photon Spheres.



I never said that it would happen 100% of the time, but chances are high enough that if you're stupid enough to actually try something like that I can almost get away with saying "every time."



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RagMasterRappy on 2002-12-18 14:09 ]</font>

[Wewt]

On 2002-12-18 14:07, RagMasterRappy wrote:
I never said that it would happen 100% of the time, but chances are high enough that if you're stupid enough to actually try something like that I can almost get away with saying "every time."

My point is that it isn't as hard to do as people think, since you can dupe items so easily now. So it's no longer a matter of "if you're stupid enough", it's a matter of if you will do it or not.

[RagMasterRappy]

On 2002-12-18 16:43, WWWWWWWWWWWW wrote:

On 2002-12-18 14:07, RagMasterRappy wrote:
I never said that it would happen 100% of the time, but chances are high enough that if you're stupid enough to actually try something like that I can almost get away with saying "every time."

My point is that it isn't as hard to do as people think, since you can dupe items so easily now. So it's no longer a matter of "if you're stupid enough", it's a matter of if you will do it or not.


In my opinion, anyone who's willing to perfect what is essentially a cheap hardware hack that's risky to attempt needs a life. Either that or less free time.

If you're willing to do this duplication process in a game where the items that you are duplicating are not that hard to find, then yes I think it's stupid. If you people aren't enjoying the game then go home. By duplicating rare weapons you're ruining the experience of finding the mentioned items by ourselves or trading with someone else. I think it's cool if I find a rare even if it's a common rare. It's not cool if there's some ass who keeps handing out things which are not supposed to be as widely accessable as they would be if they were effectively duplicated and distributed. Because I assume that's what this is leading up to. Distribution of duplicated items.

Ok, so I know people get off on duplicating rare items, but it's really starting to piss me off. And this is not because I see rare items that I want, but by seeing these rarer than usual items often it ruins the experience (uniqueness) and excitement if (I emphasize on the if, because I have not had much luck so far) I eventually find them myself.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RagMasterRappy on 2002-12-18 17:05 ]</font>

[Wewt]

On 2002-12-18 16:56, RagMasterRappy wrote:
In my opinion, anyone who's willing to perfect what is essentially a cheap hardware hack that's risky to attempt needs a life. Either that or less free time.
One minute stupid, next need a life, then need less free time? Whatever.

Everyone has a life, not everybody has the kind of life what you may have, or what you may believe people should have.

Calling somebody stupid, or saying they need a life for duplicating game data is a little daft. I'd say it's more appropiate to call them an asshole.

[RagMasterRappy]

On 2002-12-18 17:52, WWWWWWWWWWWW wrote:

On 2002-12-18 16:56, RagMasterRappy wrote:
In my opinion, anyone who's willing to perfect what is essentially a cheap hardware hack that's risky to attempt needs a life. Either that or less free time.
One minute stupid, next need a life, then need less free time? Whatever.

Everyone has a life, not everybody has the kind of life what you may have, or what you may believe people should have.

Calling somebody stupid, or saying they need a life for duplicating game data is a little daft. I'd say it's more appropiate to call them an asshole.


Ok, but if you haven't made the connection yet, I think people with no life are stupid and wasting everyone else's time. I'm not basing it on what I think someone should be doing, but I do know that duping is destructive for the PSO community which therefore makes it counterproductive. I also said "ass," I hope I have met the appropriate specifications.

BTW, nice job of skipping the rest of the argument and only focusing on something you could actually comment on.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RagMasterRappy on 2002-12-18 19:18 ]</font>

[Tiger]

oh boy i just found a legit ancient saber. I'm scared of FSOD so I duplicate the item. I use that item and I continue to use it only to myself. It is not given/traded to anyone. It's mine to own personally and NOBODY else can have it. So that makes duping wrong? Boy if that duplicating your item for YOUR OWN use just in case of FSOD is a crime, put me in jail for life.

[BonusKun]

BTW, nice job of skipping the rest of the argument and only focusing on something you could actually comment on.

Don't get your panties in a knot about that.

Usually that means most of your post was agreed with expect for the one thing you said in part of that post which didn't sit well with the person replying to you.

[BonusKun]

On 2002-12-18 21:16, Tiger wrote:
oh boy i just found a legit ancient saber. I'm scared of FSOD so I duplicate the item. I use that item and I continue to use it only to myself. It is not given/traded to anyone. It's mine to own personally and NOBODY else can have it. So that makes duping wrong? Boy if that duplicating your item for YOUR OWN use just in case of FSOD is a crime, put me in jail for life.



Heh why am I laughing so hard when I read the sarcasm in your posts?

[Maverynthia]

I'll make a comment akin to the OLD GB Mario Bros. comics.

Duping and distibuting items:
BAD IDEA

Duping and keeping a copy safe in storage:
GOOD IDEA

I think SEGA should have a station where you pay some meseta based on the item and attributes and get an exact copy of that item to save.

[Wewt]

On 2002-12-18 19:07, RagMasterRappy wrote:
Ok, but if you haven't made the connection yet, I think people with no life are stupid and wasting everyone else's time.
Okay, so you're saying people who do those things have no lives, and you're saying this over the Internet. Good job, makes you look big


On 2002-12-18 19:07, RagMasterRappy wrote:
I'm not basing it on what I think someone should be doing, but I do know that duping is destructive for the PSO community which therefore makes it counterproductive. I also said "ass," I hope I have met the appropriate specifications.
You said they had no lives, I can quote you on that if you really want. *waits for him to edit previous posts*


On 2002-12-18 19:07, RagMasterRappy wrote:
BTW, nice job of skipping the rest of the argument and only focusing on something you could actually comment on.

It was, wasn't it? Want to know why I skipped it? Because you rambled on about your views on duping, which was not what I was arguing against. My argument was against you calling people stupid, or no-lifers, because they dupe items via a cheap hardware trick.

BTW, I do agree on your views about cheating. It is plain wrong, and counter-productive. I just disagree your ways of labelling people that do this.

[Tiger]

People really start to take it too far. I mean it was ok at first, but duping is here, and its here to stay. There is no way to go away from it. Instead of ruining your PSO experience by getting frustrated everytime you see a dupe room or a person giving out items, just ignore it if you have to. Believe me no matter HOW MANY items you get from someone and no matter how rare they are or how duped they are, its nothing like finding your own legit rare. There is no experience like it.

Item Duplication really doesnt ruin the game. It's kind of like the expression "Gun's dont kill people, people kill people.". Sure it hurts the trading economy. At the same time you have items that are super rare, cool looking, strong and items you could spend hundreds and hundreds of hours on trying to find, and not find them. Even if you were to find them, you have 3 other people making a stampede for that same item! If someone else gets it BOOM it's off to the drawing board again trying to work again.

There are more people non-legit then you think. When I duplicated items I would constantly be IM'ed or asked if I could tell the people how to do or if I could give them free item's because they corrupted. I'd estimate to be about 100 or so, there are even more people wanting to do it. First day this game came out people said, "I hope there is no duping please dont let them dupe." they whined and whined worrying about duping. I just told everyone to play the game while duping is non-existent cause you will regret it. Low and behold i find dupe 3 days after the game releases. They all whined about how the games over or whatnot and this was a month after the game came out that they knew it was out. They spent SO MUCH time worrying they barely played.

Now for the record, please go and enjoy the game now before PK and FSOD becomes a part of PSO. It's ineviteble, but just have fun while it lasts.

[RuneLateralus]

Ok, I just saw a couple of personal shots were thrown out. Please refrain from using those.

As for the topic on hand, I do not believe in ruining the PSO economy, but I do believe it is justifible if you do dupe for personal reasons (ie, like Tiger said, back-ups)

I lost God knows how many weapons when I was FSOD with RuneLateral. I thank God it hasn't happened with MAYA, but I keep only one weapon with her when I am online all the time for that reason. Some of the stuff were hand me downs...but good hand me downs for now (Silence Claw) while others I found on my own (Booma Claw and Soul Eater), and I sure as hell do not want to any of them.

[Ruby-chan]

On 2002-12-19 04:50, Maverynthia wrote:
I'll make a comment akin to the OLD GB Mario Bros. comics.

Duping and distibuting items:
BAD IDEA

Duping and keeping a copy safe in storage:
GOOD IDEA

I think SEGA should have a station where you pay some meseta based on the item and attributes and get an exact copy of that item to save.



Now that you mention that, it occurs to me how simple that could be done... A small station that copies an item you have, with all it's data saved online, which could create a duplicate that is non-tradeable and non-dropable, and only creates the duplicate if the orignal item isn't in your inventory. Of course one isn't sure how to make sure the orignal wasn't trade away. Too bad this won't actually happen...

[BrokenHope]

Except tiger doesn't dupe for personal use, he's posted more than 1 trade list at gamefaqs trading dupes so his trying to make out he's innocent by only duping for his own personal use isn't even true.