Ulti Art decision: Handgun vs Cards

[ljkkjlcm9]

SO I was planning ahead on working towards acrofighter, and in their offhand they can have handgun S, card A, shadoog S. Most of the time they'll have shadoog, but what about handgun and cards?

Their ultimate art does the exact same thing, sap enemies HP... so which do I get?

THE JACKEL

[KiteWolfwood]

Cards, but please do not get the Ult art. It is pretty useless.

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2007-06-22 18:22, KiteWolfwood wrote:
Cards, but please do not get the Ult art. It is pretty useless.


it's useless ATM because all classes that have it can heal as well... but as an acrofighter I think it'd be pretty useful

THE JACKEL

[Soukosa]

The amount you get back is a percentage of the damage you deal. So the one that would deal the most damage would be the better one to use, which would likely be the card. Cards will also allow you to replenish your HP while running around advoiding hits to further lower your HP since they can home in on a nearby target.

[Pillan]

Apparently the strength of HP drain was increased dramatically in the AoI beta, so both will be more worthwhile if that remains true.

I doubt I’ll use cards at all for opposite element damage since the only time I’d want a ranged weapon other than a Shadoog is when I need to hit an airborne target. And handgun just wins there because it goes to S and it’s easier to target boss weak points.

But, yeah, effect 3x3 is better than effect 3x1.8, so I’d say the card ult wins in general use. However, the HP drain handgun has the same effect as shotgun bullets, so that can jump to effect 3x3.6 with 2 nearby targets in addition to the higher multiplier on handgun PAs.

[Kimil]

Hmm... currently I have the Ult Handgun Bullet at lvl 10. As is, it's pretty useless. The daage is good and the HP restore is decent, but the PP usage is ridiculous >_<

I like cards' better than Handguns, so I'd say Crad.

Damage
Card > Handgun
Easy use ( lock on )
Card > handgun
FP aiming
Handgun > Card
Acuracy
Card > Handgun
Multiple hits
Card ( 3) > Handgun ( a with a splash effect, amking 2 )

[KiteWolfwood]

On 2007-06-22 18:30, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
On 2007-06-22 18:22, KiteWolfwood wrote:
Cards, but please do not get the Ult art. It is pretty useless.


it's useless ATM because all classes that have it can heal as well... but as an acrofighter I think it'd be pretty useful

THE JACKEL


Whoops my bad. Some how I didn't read the acrofighter part. But anyway if you are just going to use it just to heal. I would say card. You can always switch in a different range weapon for flying mobs.

[Pillan]

On 2007-06-22 20:07, Kimil wrote:
Card ( 3) > Handgun ( a with a splash effect, amking 2 )


Sorry, but I have to correct you there. Cards fire around once every .8 seconds while handguns fire once every .5, so you get around 1.6 shots from a handgun for every 3 card shots.

Also that means my previous statement was off. It should be Effect 3 x 1.6 and x 3.2 coupled with the higher multiplier and S rank access.


Honestly, I don't think a 15 star handgun will deal more damage/time than a 9 star card though.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-06-22 20:27 ]</font>

[Hrith]

On 2007-06-22 20:07, Kimil wrote:
Easy use (lock on)
Card > handgunThat's subjective. Handguns are extremely easy to use, too/

Acuracy
Card > handgundon't handguns have a higher ATA modifier? I think the total ATA of handguns is superior to that of fans.

Multiple hits
Card (3) > handgun (with a splash effect, making 2)Handgun will hit more, because it is extremely easy to hit two targets (works on the same monster, when applicable) with Mayalee Hit, and handgun is twice as fast.
2x2 > 3x1

[imfanboy]

Wow, Hrith, have you ever used cards?

I don't have the time for a proper evisceration of your viewpoint, except to say that you're utterly wrong. Cards overall have better ATA despite the lower % because cards themselves have insane Accuracy.


Jackel, if you're going to get one of the two, I'd heartily endorse cards, despite having a limit of A rank instead of Srank. Why? Each bullet you hit counts for HP drain - 180 chances of draining HP a minute with the card versus 80 with the handgun, if that?

Now, under near perfect conditions, you MIGHT be able to hit 2 enemies with one handgun bullet. But two or three in a row? Not likely, and even if you could it wouldn't add up to the overall chances that you'd have when using the card. Stick with what's going to be perfectly reliable over a broad period of time, and do more damage consistently, AND let you dodge out of the way if you're low on HP while still firing your gun and draining more HP back: go card.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: imfanboy on 2007-06-23 12:33 ]</font>

[DreamLocke]

Cards FTW. I love them so much I am broke buying two kikamis, grinded from the shop. I do not love that I am broke. But cards are winnarz.

[Hrith]

Card ATA: 286 x 70% = 200.2
Handgun ATA: 146 x 75% = 109.5

I was just asking. I have Lv30 card PAs, but not the UPA one, obviously. What is the ATA modifier on Kyumeisei-shiki Lv30, btw?
For Mayalee Hit Lv30, it's 76%

I'm not sure what you mean by "80 HP drained per minute", maybe you meant per second.
I would not use Kyumeisei-shiki over Mayalee Hit, even on Acrofighter, fans are too awkward to use in emergency situations, and much to slow, even assuming the HP drained is superior.

I'm only comparing Kyumeisei-shiki to Mayalee Hit, not regular PAs.

[Soukosa]

Kyumeisei-shiki has 74% ATA at lv 30.

If you really need HP, I'd think you'd be far better off hitting a mate than trying to drain HP from enemies. It'll probably come down to personal preference here for what you want. If not else, you can get both ;p

[HaydenX]

I just got an ageha-kikami and already have kikami. I was considering Kyumeisei-shiki until I realized...I'm a GT, I should have killer shot.

[SolomonGrundy]

HP drain is lovely for a ProTranser, since they cannot resta, but get level 30 bullets.

I'd be inclined to favor rayratore with high grind. The PP on yohemi pistols is just so worthy.

[Sgt_Shligger]

Why would you want a card for immediate HP drain? If you're getting attacked by a few monsters, or even a mob, the handgun would score more hits instantly, as opposed to the cards delayed shot.

[biggabertha]

How much does Kyumeisei-shiki cost to fire? Surely it's as costly as Mayalee Hit? Isn't it much cheaper to pile up on 1/2/3 star Yohmei Handguns to build up on the handgun bullet rather than the more expensive to refill, higher ATA requirement Throwing cards/fans?

You won't get the benefit of switching over to a Fortegunner to reduce the cost per bullet/get lots of ATA to help you build up Kyumeisei-shiki but you will with Mayalee Hit ( I didn't think of this while I was building up mine.. x.x ) so Mayalee Hit seems like the cheapskate's, easy route to me.

Throwing Cards/Fans look cooler me for the time being but handguns are simply, point, click, damage a split second later rather than, point, click, delay, hits wrong enemy/box gets destroyed/hits a boss' tail/not a boss' wings/Dulk Fakis' force field/other annoying wasn't-the-target-that-I-wanted-to-hit problems.

[beatrixkiddo]

By all means, feel free to use cards for other purposes, but for HP Drain I have to agree that a handgun is probably a much simpler solution, especially since it's no big deal to bring along a few extra 6* Pistols, but Kikamis are comparatively expensive (to purchase and recharge).

Also, Handguns fire at a rate of about 1.8 per second, according to my own testing.

[Fatima]

I have a quick guestion about cards. Do they count as a ranged weapon, as far as things like synthing is concerned? Or would it be best to have it made by a striking PM?

[SolomonGrundy]

yes, they count as a ranged weapon for synth