Opinion: How much bullet leveling is acceptable in S mission

[SolomonGrundy]

So, I'm running an S2 mission the other day, and I notice that one of the gunners is using an ice rifle, and only an ice rifle. (regardless of enemy element). I gently inquire about it, and he (somewhat rudely) replies that he is leveling his ice file, and I should MYOB.

Now, I'm not super uptight about these things, after all, PAs only level through use, but the run was kinda dragging, and 8 volfu die pretty slowly when you are shooting them one at a time with an ice rifle.

But maybe I am too quick to judge - what is you e-pinion?

[Anduril]

I think in situations where time really isn't an issue Some bullet leveling is fine. But if it's frustrating the team then it probably isn't the best idea.

[eightball]

Yeah this frustrates me some too...if you wanna simply level pa's go solo...if you are going to slow the team down and don't care about being a team player get out

[Tigerram]

Playing as a Cast myself, I think guns are moderate with firing damage as can be as it is ( some of them anyway ) I'm not picky when it comes to leveling PA's, by all means level them, but in S-S2 missions, I pull out the elementals that are required. The more damage the better. I thought what the player told you was a little rude, It would have been better if he would have just said to you "I'm sorry if this is monotonous, but I'm just trying to level my ice rifle." That would have come off better I'm sure.

[JAFO22000]

Should've just booted him. And if it wasn't your party, then you have no right to complain. Just leave and find another.

As far as the question on whether this is "acceptable" or not, I would ask a group if they were OK with me leveling a PA/Bullet/Tech before doing it, and even if they said OK, I would only level it on small, easy enemies such as Lapuchas or Badiras. Being in a party is not about your own personal gain. Want to level something as quickly as possible?- Solo. Don't slow the party down by constantly using that level 4 dark bullet in Agata Relics....

If I was in his party, I would've made small, smart-alckey comments about his playstyle until he:
A: Stopped trying to level his bullets and started helping out
B: Left
C: Got really pissed and started yelling and saying stupid shit to me.

I would've hoped for "C"....!

[Niered]

Level PA's only in a party that has at least 5 members, preferably 6. More importantly, do what i do, level different elements on different weapons simultaneously, this way youre still almost as efficient as you would be normally.

One other thing that pisses the hell outta me is rangers that refuse to use burn or infect on big enemies because theyre leveling something else. I ALWAYS have a rifle with my lvl 30 burn ready for any big mobs.

[ljkkjlcm9]

I don't see what's wrong with leveling an ice rifle. Freeze is a great SE, stops enemies and makes the next x amounts of hits no matter what. That's a great chance for an axe user to do some damage.

I honestly don't see the problem with people leveling PAs in groups. I can't be bothered to go solo just to raise a PA, just seems stupid to me. I level all my stuff in a group. That's also why I typically play with friends. Most know I could easily do more damage, but by limiting myself to leveling my stuff now, it means when I really need to be versatile later, I'll have even more good stuff to use.

THE JACKEL

[Tykwa]

1. As long as they are doing damage and won't affect the final rank it's fine with me.

[panzer_unit]

Even when I'm soloing to level PA's, I go somewhere that weapon or element will do a lot of damage. Performing badly is performing badly even if you're on your own, you could be going through loot drops and mission rewards faster.

[DaRkWoLf30]

I mean if he wants to level it by all means let him.

[Kaloa]

I think it's perfectly fine to level PA's in group play. I also doubt that the slow progression was solely his fault. 8 volfu may die slowly under the circumstances you mentioned, but he shouldn't have been the only one attacking. Most decent groups are going to take down mob's relatively fast regardless of what bullets I decide to spam. My feeling is that you just had a poorly put-together team.

Besides, I think ice is okay against volfu's. Volfu's tend to hit hard, so randomly putting them out of commission for a few seconds by the way of freezing isn't such a terrible idea.

[Akaimizu]

It's a give and take. Gunners HAVE TO, and I mean HAVE TO level bullets. If it does affect your mission to a good amount, I normally would politely ask about it. Normally asking if they are trying to level something in particular. There are certain things some gunners are completely helpless at doing until they get the proper SE level for it.

As I mentioned, in another topic, Ice Rifle is awesome. A lot of gunners show great results when those are levelled and can't wait to get those up.

Still, I kind of know what it's like to be on the other side of it. Normally, I had always had high effective bullets for that level, and maybe sacrifice a little bit of damage (in another weapon slot) to level another bullet. Still, there were certain bullets and SEs you felt that you needed or your character just couldn't be complete in that class. It's like you have this big gaping hole in your potential, for some missions.

So in a way, I understand that they're trying their best to work something up to cover for weaknesses, and I think all of us can be guilty of that. However, if they hinder you enough, you might want to politely ask about what they are trying to do. This just might be a case where they noticed that they are severely lacking in other good bullets and are hoping to make the *closest to useful one* a bit better so they can help better.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-06-26 13:41 ]</font>

[chibiLegolas]

As long as the gunner's not breaking up a mob with Maylee prism/fury all the time. Or being mindless and taking on huge damage and forcing the FO to act as his personal heal bot, I don't see too much harm in it.
He's just acting as an npc in a way. He's in the background, safely somewhere dealing a bit of damage. And hopefully the freeze with come in handy. But when there's a tight mini-boss/buff mob scenerio, I'd at least hope he'd lay down appropriate traps if he wishes not to use some other elemental bullets. Especially if the other team mates are taking on mass damage which could be easily avoided if he'd only lay down some other SE.
Or *gasp* use sols and stars when needed.

Hell, that's how I leveled my burn rifles bullets. Just stick to FPM in each room and tag everything, as fast as possible. I've gotten more hate leveling that since I used it plenty on small fire enemies and air borne mobs. But when I see my teammates having trouble, I'd put it away to help out (usually traps or drawing aggro).

[RegulusHikari]

On 2007-06-26 12:50, Tykwa wrote:
1. As long as they are doing damage and won't affect the final rank it's fine with me.



That's usually how I am. In fact, to be honest my FG uses Ice and Dark bullets almost exclusively.

I really don't think that element should be your primary concern, but rather how he uses those elements and the weapons themselves. I always have a high leveled rifle for big enemies, Killer Shot for the small Badria/Naval/etc., and grenades for Polavohra/Kamatoze/etc. After that, it's just empty out on them with Shotguns or Twins, depending on how threatening the mobs are.

I don't give a damn if he's using fire bullets in evey Fire Break mission. I play the game how I want to, so he can to, as long as he's playing and not chatting away or AFK (for an extended amount of time of course http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif).

[Golto]

Only a problem if it is a timed mission.

[JAFO22000]

So it's fine for a member of the team to be almost completely useless by leveling up a bullet that is not the correct element/SE/Movement effect for their own personal gain, yet they get access to the same rewards/rares/experience as everyone else doing the work?

You guys are a lot nicer than I am. For a friend who I am going to be running missions with in the future, I would let them do this as their leveling of bullets would end up helping the team in the long run....but in a PuG???? No way. Do this on your own time. You're not going to use me for your own personal gain. We can run together as a team for this mission, but you'd better pull your weight.

[Edgecrusher]

If that guy really wanted to level his ice rifle he should have been doing a mission where the element he's using benifits the group, I.E Firebreak missions. Holding your party back by doing mediocre damage is just lazy and inconsiderate not to mention makes him look like a noob.

[Eleina]

On 2007-06-26 14:00, JAFO22000 wrote:
So it's fine for a member of the team to be almost completely useless by leveling up a bullet that is not the correct element/SE/Movement effect for their own personal gain, yet they get access to the same rewards/rares/experience as everyone else doing the work?

You guys are a lot nicer than I am. For a friend who I am going to be running missions with in the future, I would let them do this as their leveling of bullets would end up helping the team in the long run....but in a PuG???? No way. Do this on your own time. You're not going to use me for your own personal gain. We can run together as a team for this mission, but you'd better pull your weight.



Oh please if a guy wants to level up bullets let him...this is an ONLINE game if you had to spend 500 hours solo before you could play with ppl it would be stupid <.<...Beside he's doing damage, applying SE and if the guys a good gunner he'll be trapping large enemys and be doing his job.

If he's helping the team he is hardly using you for personnal gain...

[amtalx]

It really just depends on the party. Some people just want to relax and play, others think a 10:30 run is unacceptable if 10:00 is within reach. If you are going to level bullets, you should always ask your party first. They may want to go for efficiency.

[Golto]

Heh looks like another 'orny on 360 problem'.

[JAFO22000]

Well, if he is high enough level to do an S rank mission (that was the original question) then he should already have a good amount of bullets leveled. Just because someone who's level 60 didn't get rifle ice bullets until now, or has maxed out Fighgunner and Fortefighter and is now trying to max Fortegunner, doesn't give them a reason to level these bullets in an S run PuG AGAINST THE WRONG ELEMENT ENEMY!! If he were using these low ice bullets in, say, a firebreak mission, then I wouldn't consider that to be a problem; he has the correct bullet, it's just a low level = no big deal.

Using light bullets in Agata Relics S2 runs is NOT alright with me. I know you need to level them, but this is NOT the place. Try running in Hive or LL.....the person who does this is using the rest of the party for their own advancement. They will get the same reward at the end and (assuming drops are in order or random) get the same amount of items/meseta as everyone else.

Shoot, I wanna do this. I need to level my zonde up, so I will sit in the back of the party and just shoot zonde at everything. No resta, no buffs, no debuffs, no reverser....just zonde.

[Sekani]

Gunners need a break. I can't think of any other class that gets screamed at for not having lv 21+ PAs, yet it takes almost literally forever to get them that high, especially solo.

While I'm personally cool with people leveling PAs in groups (I actually do it all the time, not sure if anyone ever notices), it's NOT cool to spam that PA at the expense of all your other abilities. If the person from the OP's example was using nothing but an ice rifle the whole mission, then that's a boot. If we was at least using traps and/or inflicting burn and virus when necessary, then it's no big deal.

Besides, volfus will die no matter what you hit them with.

[Freshellent]

I guess it could both ways. I gotta say though,it does bother the hell out of me when I see it. Same for HU,FO's But there's only so many ways you can go about this. At some point you got to lvl your bullets,so why not now? On the other hand,that does really piss me off when I see a RA doing something like you've described. I sorta just deal with it though.

[ashley50]

Ice Rifle is a Universal element that has pretty useful on any Situations. Freeze

at least it's not Light or Ground Element as those two are almost useless...Shock has it's uses, it aids Fighters =)

[Lonzell]

If it ain't a timed mission its allowed. If you are frustrated over it being in a untimed misson, here, I have something for you. ^_^

http://www.ohcheeseguild.com/images/cheese_mnd_lg.jpg

[RegulusHikari]

I find it ironic that people cry about soloing being SOOOO boring and that PSU should is meant to be team-based, then turn around and tell people to GTFO for trying to help themselves out in a party.

[JAFO22000]

^ Was that aimed at me? Because I actually ENJOY soloing when my regular team is offline.

I understand that these rangers need to level up their bullets, but do you need it SO quickly that you have to use it the whole map? Again, I'm gonna level up my zonde, so no resta for you!

[Uncle_bob]

Gotta use 'em to level 'em. I can understand if you're in an easy mission like Linear Line. But don't use god damned Lightning rifle the whole time in Hive S. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif

[Lonzell]

On 2007-06-26 16:18, Uncle_bob wrote:
Gotta use 'em to level 'em. I can understand if you're in an easy mission like Linear Line. But don't use god damned Lightning rifle the whole time in Hive S. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_nono.gif



http://maona.net/img/food/danish_blue_cheese.jpg

[APEXi]

if theyre close to hitting either 11 or 21, i'm cool with people spamming - but theres always exceptions. personally, if i feel im dragging while spamming something i'll say something like 'please bare w/ while i get this levelled up, its close" etc etc -BUT- i think once you start hitting the S2 missions it's time to put your best stuff on display.

[akratic]

I'd mock and then boot someone who did that without asking.

And then I'd blacklist him.

If I felt really feisty, I'd wait to boot him until just before the end, so that he doesn't get any rewards and has max pp recharge cost.

[Lonzell]

The best place to level elements ARE in the enviorment in which the element you are using will thrive the best, and be of the most use.... BUT, the world ain't gonna end if you have a person that wants to level specific elemental bullets, while also benefiting from getting meseta/mission points/fragments/rares from whatever mission they are running. It's called killing 2 birds with one stone, and its kinda pointless to get heated up over it.

[9lotus]

I don't mind it at all when people level bullets, but I would've immediately kicked that guy for being rude

[Reipard]

It's incredibly stupid to let this bother you. Much less be hostile over it.

[Inazuma]

im somewhere in the middle on this topic. i think its fine for someone to be trying to level PAs in a party, but they should still be trying to play decently too.

anytime i use my newman male FT, i am working on leveling my techs, but you mite not notice b/c im still doing a decent job. the techs that are maxed out, i use less often than normal. and the ones that arent maxed, i use more often than normal. i wanna max out all my techs but i dont wanna slow down the party too much either.

and something else that no one has mentioned yet, is afk leveling. i do it as much as i can, and it really helps out.

[Lonzell]

Let me put it this way. People shouldn't be using the same elemental bullet vs. whatever they are fighting, such as ice on ice ect (Unless they are trying to stick burn, which they should be sticking dark anyways for its higher DPS). But say they are trying to level something that won't completely cause the mobs to start spazzin out and rapeing you, then by all means, let'em.

[akratic]

On 2007-06-26 16:47, Reipard wrote:
It's incredibly stupid to let this bother you. Much less be hostile over it.

The audacity of people to care how they spend their time and to be bothered by rudeness!!!!

Oh my!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: akratic on 2007-06-26 17:15 ]</font>

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2007-06-26 17:13, akratic wrote:

On 2007-06-26 16:47, Reipard wrote:
It's incredibly stupid to let this bother you. Much less be hostile over it.

The audacity of people to care how they spend their time and to be bothered by rudeness!!!!

Oh my!

The rudeness of the player is another topic altogether

and he was spending his time playing in a team and getting much more use out of his time, rather than soloing. This is afterall, a teamwork game.

Like someone said, as long as the person isn't using the same element on an enemy (fire v fire, ice v ice, etc) I don't see a problem with it. But at the same time, I bet if this person kept using fire bullets and burning enemies, people wouldn't have said anything to him.

THE JACKEL

[Niered]

On 2007-06-26 17:12, Lonzell wrote:
(Unless they are trying to stick burn, which they should be sticking dark anyways for its higher DPS).


WRONG.

The DPS of burn is MUCH higher than infect. Level 4 burn does the same amount of damage twice as fast as Level 4 infect. So if we go by speed, burn is better.

The difference being that infect lasts longer obviously, which means that if you have the time, it will do more damage.

Actual stats:


Burn:

Duration: 10 seconds.
Damage: 5% every 2 seconds.
Total Damage: 25% of total health


Infect:

Duration: 40 Seconds
Damage: 5% every 4 seconds.
Total Damage: 50% of total health.


Y'know what that means? It means that all I have to do is stick burn twice in a 40 seconds timeframe (technically 20) to outdamage infect.

Discounting variables such as Freeze, and multiple enemies to worry about...

Burn > infect.

[Lonzell]

On 2007-06-26 17:28, Niered wrote:

On 2007-06-26 17:12, Lonzell wrote:
(Unless they are trying to stick burn, which they should be sticking dark anyways for its higher DPS).


WRONG.

The DPS of burn is MUCH higher than infect. Level 4 burn does the same amount of damage twice as fast as Level 4 infect. So if we go by speed, burn is better.

The difference being that infect lasts longer obviously, which means that if you have the time, it will do more damage.

Actual stats:


Burn:

Duration: 10 seconds.
Damage: 5% every 2 seconds.
Total Damage: 25% of total health


Infect:

Duration: 40 Seconds
Damage: 5% every 4 seconds.
Total Damage: 50% of total health.


Y'know what that means? It means that all I have to do is stick burn twice in a 40 seconds timeframe (technically 20) to outdamage infect.

Discounting variables such as Freeze, and multiple enemies to worry about...

Burn > infect.



http://h1.ripway.com/Dallas/-Dallas-/The_More_You_Know2.jpg

[Niered]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Reipard]

The audacity of people to care how they spend their time and to be bothered by rudeness!!!!

Oh my!

Leveling your Ice bullets when it is not at an expense to the team is not rudeness. I have seen more rude things promised in response than the actual offense was.

[Rashiid]

if the mission aint timed; i dont see why not. i do it all the time w/ techs.

hell i was usin Zonde when it was 20 in Urgent Orders; ppl were wonding 'umm wtf?'

i simply replied 'its 20; and i need to finish it to 21'

they didnt mind. we still got S; so why does it matter

edit; oh and Infect owns Burn. you can still freeze while infected. and idk what ur talkin bout; cause a infected tengoug takes like 2800; while burned one only takes like 1900-2300.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rashiid on 2007-06-26 19:49 ]</font>

[Lonzell]

On 2007-06-26 19:46, Rashiid wrote:
if the mission aint timed; i dont see why not. i do it all the time w/ techs.

hell i was usin Zonde when it was 20 in Urgent Orders; ppl were wonding 'umm wtf?'

i simply replied 'its 20; and i need to finish it to 21'

they didnt mind. we still got S; so why does it matter

edit; oh and Infect owns Burn. you can still freeze while infected. and idk what ur talkin bout; cause a infected tengoug takes like 2800; while burned one only takes like 1900-2300.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rashiid on 2007-06-26 19:49 ]</font>


Not that he mentions it... he's right. I do notice that infected Ten's do take more damage than when burn is stuck on'em....

[Niered]

Im gonna say your probably seeing different levels of use there. Remember, a trap can stick no matter what the level , and tengohs can in fact be stuck with SE3 (correct that if its wrong, but I'm 90% sure of that)

My stats were for the SE4 of both PA's.

[Rashiid]

SE3? since when?

and yeah it totally different numbers; plz look into it.

if burn is 5%; then infect hast to be like 8%-10%.

and; also; if something is burned; and you try to infect it; it overrides the burn. meaning its better. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[RegulusHikari]

On 2007-06-26 15:58, JAFO22000 wrote:
^ Was that aimed at me? Because I actually ENJOY soloing when my regular team is offline.

I understand that these rangers need to level up their bullets, but do you need it SO quickly that you have to use it the whole map? Again, I'm gonna level up my zonde, so no resta for you!



No it wasn't aimed at you in particular, JAFO. I enjoy soloing to a degree myself, and actually did bullet leveling while I hunted SPS today, but that's beside the point.

I can attest to leveling a single bullet on a map constantly. Back during Crimson Beast I spammed Dark Shot to get it to 21. But even then I used grenades for the Polas, Dova, and Ragan. I have no problem with that, and if a FO doesn't want to use Resta, fine. I have mates and have no problem paying for more. Forces go out of their way to support the team most of the time. But most missions aren't difficult enough that it's desperately needed. For example, however, when Fakis S first came out, if you didn't have a FO, you were basically screwed.

But that is a role of support, not offense. Not using other, more efficient bullets just wastes time. Not using Resta or Buffs can essentially effect whether your team lives or dies. But like I said, most missions we have now are cakewalks so that's not really an issue.

The people who mention timed missions have a good argument, but no matter who I'm playing as I personally don't do much screwing around in them. And with the attitude of "GOGOGOSPAMNEXTRUNGO" I see a lot of people have, whether it's for MP/EXP gain or Jaggo runs, I assume a lot of people took them seriously.

Granted, you have the occasional person who isn't aware that his actions are slowing you down. But the example of an Ice rifle on a Volfu (which in this case was probably fire anyway) isn't such a case. Rifles do the same damage on a Volfu that it would on any other average size mob, and the Phantom combo with elemental advantage makes it considerably more powerful.

I think my experiences on this board have made me realize there are two major types of players. The stuck up elitists who can't have their precious seconds wasted in a video game (ironic, no?). And the laid back players who really don't mind what the others around them are doing, as long as the game is flowing in an orderly fashion and things are getting done.

Edit: SE3 has worked on large Mobs for a while now. The rate is horrible, but I definitely remember landing burn on the Tengohgs is Demons Above A. It was the only way to take them out quickly.

And I'd say that infect overwrites burn not because it's better per say, but because it lasts longer. Why would something short interrupt something long? The overall effect would be less.

4 Sec Burn -> 40 Sec Infect
or
4 Sec Infect -> 10 Sec Burn

You wouldn't cause nearly as much damage in the end.

Whew... that was a long post @_@

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RegulusHikari on 2007-06-26 20:23 ]</font>

[Arika]

On 2007-06-26 12:41, eightball wrote:
Yeah this frustrates me some too...if you wanna simply level pa's go solo...if you are going to slow the team down and don't care about being a team player get out


agree, practice solo, so you don't waste other people time.
unless
1.no one hurry.
2.when everyone is practicing their PA/bullet/tech too

[DurakkenX]

I see no reason to not level bullets any time...the elemental damage +or- is negligible in most cases anyways in most cases.

[Jife_Jifremok]

If they're gonna yell at you for leveling your bullets, leave and hope those assholes don't get anyone to fill the spot you left.

[TheLOLBandit]

Being a Fortegunner/Guntecher/Fighgunner i can be a little more understanding. bullets take forvever to level some times and you just have to stick with it. im not to nosy about why other people use ice elemented double sabers against bil de vears. i just accept that they have a strategy of their own to make things move faster and i respect that.

as far as leveling bullets during mission as long as the bullet is high enough to effect a medium sized monster i really dont care what they use

but when im running timed missions i think that the bullets should be used to save time not consume it and if they are taking to long ill say something.

if you are a fortegunner and cannot kill an enemy faster than a newman guntecher you need to fix something...seriously



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TheLOLBandit on 2007-06-26 21:39 ]</font>

[ljkkjlcm9]

uhm, I don't get it. People who honestly say he can't level his bullets in a mission.

so what, to join your party people must have all maxed bullet/tech/skill PAs?

That's crap I play to level my stuff. That's exactly the type of stuff that makes me hate this community at times. Not everyone has the time to go play solo for hours to max everything. MOST OF US, level our stuff normally through gameplay.

THE JACKEL

[Realmz]

with guns it doesn't really matter what element you've got on your weapons, the % is so low most of the time it doesn't even matter. And since all the SE's help people out i seriously doubt most people would care. Unless you're in a group where people have to have everything their way. Now a while ago i was leveling my Dark shot. I brought along three rifles for it and emptied all of them out every run no one asked about it or anything, all they knew was that theres this strange cast just shooting rifles at everything. Now i can infect everything and everyones happy that they don't use virus traps anymore (most of the time i tell them to use burn traps on big mobs, cause virus is slow to infect)

on burn vs virus.

brun pros
deals damage faster
easier to apply

burn cons
freeze negates it
lesser damage then virus


Virus pros
more damage then burn
works with freeze

Virus cons
takes longer to deal out full damage
takes longer to apply to mobs

i have dark on my rifles and burn on my shot gun along with all the bullets for my twins. i feel burn works better on smaller mobs, as the damage is delt out faster helping more, while Virus is more suited to larger mobs with enough HP to warrent the longer apply time (normally) and will be around for the SE to either ware off or do most of it's damage.

[APEXi]

stuck burn SE3 on polovahras and even the gol dova

[Aralia]

where's the "Idc... I can solo this mission without him, Idc as long as the runs going faster than if I solo'd" option? =O

[WaveofBabies]

None, this is why sleeping warriors S exists

go level your bullets there fools!

[Korokodo13]

I just lvl anything in missions but I make sure im doing damage on certain things... Like a few days ago I was lvling my sword PAs past 21 but I was also using a grinded jogiri so I was inflicting poison on the little mobs while doing over 500+ each hit... I sometimes take turns on each PA im lvling up, so lets say I'd lvl my Burn shotgun to 15 and Id then switch over to say my dark bow and get it to 20 and switch back to shotgun again...

[Rashiid]

On 2007-06-27 00:36, APEXi wrote:
stuck burn SE3 on polovahras and even the gol dova



thats a lie. only SE.4 affects him.

and virus is just as easy to apply then burn.

i shoot like 15 foies at a jarba; nothin still.

shoot 5-6 virus bows; hes intoxicated.

[Realmz]

On 2007-06-27 05:41, Rashiid wrote:

On 2007-06-27 00:36, APEXi wrote:
stuck burn SE3 on polovahras and even the gol dova



thats a lie. only SE.4 affects him.

and virus is just as easy to apply then burn.

i shoot like 15 foies at a jarba; nothin still.

shoot 5-6 virus bows; hes intoxicated.



all i can say is that it takes me almost as long as it takes a burn to run out on a mob to infect them, while burn gets applied in two or three shots. Perhaps i've just been having very bad luck

[Korokodo13]

On 2007-06-27 05:41, Rashiid wrote:

On 2007-06-27 00:36, APEXi wrote:
stuck burn SE3 on polovahras and even the gol dova



thats a lie. only SE.4 affects him.

and virus is just as easy to apply then burn.

i shoot like 15 foies at a jarba; nothin still.

shoot 5-6 virus bows; hes intoxicated.

Try using your virus bow and your burn bow and test it a few times on different enemies and average out the amount of bullets it took and then tell us

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-06-26 22:00, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
uhm, I don't get it. People who honestly say he can't level his bullets in a mission.

so what, to join your party people must have all maxed bullet/tech/skill PAs?

That's crap I play to level my stuff. That's exactly the type of stuff that makes me hate this community at times. Not everyone has the time to go play solo for hours to max everything. MOST OF US, level our stuff normally through gameplay.

THE JACKEL



You're missing the point. Nobody says that you can't level your bullet, but when you are ONLY using that bullet, there can be a problem.

Example level: Mad Beasts.

Ice rifle against the Badiras? Fine.

Ice rifle against the Polovarhas? Should be helping out by burning or infecting these.

Ice rifle against Mizura? Again, a good SE would better help us get through this.

Ice rifle against Volfu? There are better things to use, but this wouldn't be too bad.

Ice rifle against Jarbas? This is good! An SE would be better, but this is good.

Ice rifle against Koltova/Distova? Perfect!

Ice rifle agains Gol Dova? We could use an SE from our ranger!!

In summation, there are a LOT of opportunites on this level to use an ice bullet. One could still get some good ice bullet levels against Koltovas, Badrias and Jarbas. Against Gol Dovas, Polovarhras and Mizura though, the party may need you apply an SE to help out. But far be it from me to expect this person to help.....

[Akaimizu]

The amount of elemental percentage boost depends on the guns. Twin guns actually have a fairly significant boost based on their percentage, but they also have a pretty good elemental percentage number. It's one of those bullets that really does make the difference at 30 as opposed to 21. But good luck. We're talking an ~ 80 hour trek to get an individual bullet to 30. fully tested.

Back in the day, everybody was levelling something at the same time, so noone really harped on anyone. It was because a mutual understanding of what it is to level was between friends. Still, while we played a bit casual, we still played for as much efficiency as we could muster while doing it. Oftentimes we simply swap around stuff to use so that we'd use so that whatever decent opportunity we got to use said PA/bullet/tech, we wouldn't miss that opportunity. On other times, we'd drill whatever appropriate element (or closest one that we have available).

In general, though, particularly for timed missions, I kind of am forced to use only *best* bullets in them. I remember it taking me forever to level my Fire Bow bullets because I kept being invited to teams that wanted to fight all those fire monsters. I was fortunate that halfway through I was able to sneak in some time to get them to 21 so I could finally put in maximum damage against the Goldovas. Without that, I have absolutely no SE4 damage and thus completely lose out on my potential to get the best drop speed on those guys.

But I had to forgo using the Fire bow for so long because well, strangers might rag on me for trying to level said bow. So it's a give an take. Sometimes that desperately needed thing has those little growing pains to the top because in every other situation (in a party), it might not look favorable. So in reality, instead of being fully ready for those suckers early into the Firebreak Mission release. It was a couple of weeks later.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-06-27 08:35 ]</font>

[Golto]

I find it hypocritical that most of the people complaining are the same people who said 'let people play how they want to play' when concerning the over-purifiaction of Neudiaz by the larger population. I guess when it directly effects them they don't like people 'playing how they want to play'?

[panzer_unit]

Here's how I do things:

I've got a whole bunch of bullets that aren't 21 yet... specifically it's just Light and Dark on shotgun and handgun. Wasting my time while leveling these is every bit as bad as looking ineffective in front of a team. Gimme loot, dammit.
... in my case, light and dark just happen to be a REALLY effective combination of SE's for Grove of Fanatics and Forest Infiltration. Confuse stops the attack techs, and Infection is pretty effective in terms of doing damage. I'll run there to level my skills, or Hive doing just light or Agata Relics doing just dark, probably soloing lower ranks from the moment I log on until I get a team together from mail harassment of friends, contacts who might be interested in getting a Deganha Cannon, and known rebels against the popular missions of the month.

EDIT: It comes down to either ignoring the popular missions if they don't suit the skills you want to work on, or being content to let skills sit on the back burner until ST drops a popular mission in the good areas for them. After all theres no sense in having high-level skills you're not going to actually use.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-06-27 09:17 ]</font>

[chibiLegolas]

On 2007-06-26 16:26, APEXi wrote:
BUT- i think once you start hitting the S2 missions it's time to put your best stuff on display.



Hmm... You got a good point there. S2 missions right now really are pretty tough and draining for all members. So leveling up a rifle bullet that's under 21 wouldn't be a great idea. Same goes with any other bullet that's greatly underpowered.

S or A missions would be better for those.

[RedX]

i don't really care as long as they aren't using the same element as the enemies.

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-06-27 09:05, Golto wrote:
I find it hypocritical that most of the people complaining are the same people who said 'let people play how they want to play' when concerning the over-purifiaction of Neudiaz by the larger population. I guess when it directly effects them they don't like people 'playing how they want to play'?



Exactly! I don't care about things in this game which don't directly effect me. Most people do not. It's not hypocritcal though. To be hypocritical, I'd have to say something like "Don't level your bullets in my party!" while using barta the whole way through.

Play how you want to play IN YOUR OWN PARTY OR WHILE SOLOING, a point that I have made mulitiple times in this thread, but I guess I haven't gotten it across yet. If you are in my party, I do not like this happening. But heck, if someone will let you do it, then do it.

I don't see how you can compare the overpurification of Neudaiz on the servers to this issue. One is a serverwide issue while the other is a "party"wide issue. It's like comparing issues which affect our Nation against issues which affect your home town. ("You voted AGAINST national military spending, but FOR the local bill to give more money to the city police. Hypocrite!!!!!")

[Golto]

Its the 'not in my backyard snydrome'. You guys get all bitchy when someone points out that the 360 people are high ratio wise still doing Neudiaz and say 'Let people play how they want to'. But heaven forbid when someone in a party you are in 'plays how they want to'. Double standard?

[JAFO22000]

No, because they aren't the same thing.

I'm OK with people smoking if they want to, but don't come into MY house and smoke.

Would you agree with this statement? Same principal. People can do WHAT THEY WANT IN ANOTHER PARTY OR WHILE SOLOING and IT'S FINE WITH ME!!!!!

But, don't come to MY party and try to do this.

I really don't think you are comprehending this simple concept Golto. It seems that you are trying to start an argument here and I'm not going to bite.

Good day sir.

I said "GOOD DAY SIR!"

[Reginaldo]

This topic is bigotry at its finest.

[Korokodo13]

Hi http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Sazan]

[b]
and; also; if something is burned; and you try to infect it; it overrides the burn. meaning its better. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


And poison kills both. It's the best!! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Gen2000]

Heh, I can understand both sides of the people here. If SonicTeam didn't make leveling bullets and techs PAs such a ***** compared to melee PAs this wouldn't even be an issue though.

[Akaimizu]

It's a combination of things. PSU fully allows different levels of tolerences, and on the other side, some people do certain things to an extreme when they're fully capable of not being so extreme at it.

Give and take, as you will. Different people have different levels of dealing with different people.

And yes, while Sonic Team definitely made the road to levelled PAs for bullets and techs a very crippling aspect of playing those classes; it's only a catalyst for such possible confrontations, but not the only reason.

Heck, one of the reasons for leaving FFXI was because the community, as a whole, went to the extreme of that lack of tolerance. Enough that it shifted to the side of some catch 22s, where you just aren't given the opportunity to progress because you find yourself waiting so long to get the opportunity to bring yourself to the more desirable position. The catalyst (but not the only reason) being part in forcing players to be with 1 character level of each other, and the 2nd to force them to group (for whatever they need) to progress.

So too much in either case can be a bad thing. As I said before, a give and take. I tend to take this aspect somewhere down the middle because both sides (when taking them at the black and white value) are right and wrong based on the situation. My long experience with online games, of this ilk, basically taught me this. The only people I can say are taking the best approach to this are the ones willing to do a little compromise, either way.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-06-27 13:33 ]</font>

[Korokodo13]

ok im pretty sure its based like this;
hunter- beginner class= easy to lvl PAs
ranger- intermediate class= average PA lvling
Force- advanced class= harder to lvl PAs

thats pretty much how ST made it in the other games so it might be right http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2007-06-27 16:35, Korokodo13 wrote:
ok im pretty sure its based like this;
hunter- beginner class= easy to lvl PAs
ranger- intermediate class= average PA lvling
Force- advanced class= harder to lvl PAs

thats pretty much how ST made it in the other games so it might be right http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


actually the reason I see it the way it is, hunters can attack without using their skills, so therefore leveling them is easier because they shouldn't be leveling them constantly. Rangers should mostly be using their PAs, but can attack without them as well, while forces can't do anything at all without theirs.

THE JACKEL

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2007-06-27 16:35, Korokodo13 wrote:
ok im pretty sure its based like this;
hunter- beginner class= easy to lvl PAs
ranger- intermediate class= average PA lvling
Force- advanced class= harder to lvl PAs

thats pretty much how ST made it in the other games so it might be right http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Wrong.

Hunter: Easiest
Force: Medium
Ranger: Hardest

If you disagree, your brain is either malfunctioning or you have no experience with all three classes.

[TheLOLBandit]

On 2007-06-27 18:58, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2007-06-27 16:35, Korokodo13 wrote:
ok im pretty sure its based like this;
hunter- beginner class= easy to lvl PAs
ranger- intermediate class= average PA lvling
Force- advanced class= harder to lvl PAs

thats pretty much how ST made it in the other games so it might be right http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Wrong.

Hunter: Easiest
Force: Medium
Ranger: Hardest

If you disagree, your brain is either malfunctioning or you have no experience with all three classes.



i agree

ive been all 3 classes ... so far leveling bullets is the hardest