PSU: AotI - New Famitsu scan

[EspioKaos]

Click here (http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/EspioKaos/illuminus_new_info.jpg)!

This scan covers some of the new stuff being added and changed between the base game and expansion. I don't have a whole lot of time right now, so I'll make this quick. (I'll try to clarify certain things later in the day, if I have a chance to while I'm at work.)

01. "Just Attack" added
The "Just Attack" is the culmination of all of that talk about a timing system with melee attacks. If you manage to time it correctly, your third hit will pull off this move, which seems to be a more powerful attack.

02. "Just Counter" added
This is a special guard which seems to be tied to melee attacks. I'll look more into this once I have a chance.

03. PP recovery from normal attacks
It says something about recovering PP at a higher rate during critical times. I'll look more into this one, too, once I have a chance.

04. Monster areas of attack
This will be adjusted, I believe to make the monster AI use its own attacks more wisely instead of just chasing players around. I'll look more into it.

05. (Edited out to avoid spreading more misinformation. My mistake, I mistranslated this part. Very sorry for that. See Lyrise's post for accurate info concerning elemental stat calculation changes.)

06. Weapon grinding
The method of grinding SonicTeam had mentioned before (where you don't lose your weapon from a failed grind, just it's stats) will be added. I'll go over this some more just to make sure there isn't anything I'm missing, though.

07. PA disk change
It looks like you will now have the ability to change an already-learned PA into a disk if you don't want it. Also, a new double saber PA is revealed here: Absolute Dance.

08. New types
The type requirements for Acrosfighter and Acrotecher have been made official.
Acrofighter: Hunter lv.3, Ranger lv.5
Acrotecher: Hunter lv.3, Force lv.5

Once I have a little more time, I'll try to clarify some of this. For now, I've got to get ready for work.

EDIT: I've edited out my mistranslation to hopefully avoid spreading false information on stat calculation changes.</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EspioKaos on 2007-07-06 08:42 ]</font>

[ChronoTrigga]

Awesome, I can't wait.

[Konstanse_Xx]

You sure those AT requirements are correct? Those seem like the WT Requirements. XD

Unless they changed the WT Requirements lol.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Wow, now this seems awesome. I like that counter thing with the melee thing, I hope it gives more of a reason to have good evasion, and if so, my human would so kick ass as Acrofighter. But the reqs, meh, now I'll need to gain two Ranger levels to get Acrofighter? Meh, especially since it seems like more of a Hunter than a Ranger with its S rank Musashis, but at least now I can easily gain those MP w/ that Neudaiz mission. But that stronger attack for timing sounds awesome, I'm interested. And FINALLY they're gonna reduce the gaps between the races, this is what I've always wanted, and hopefully, there'll be some less crying about this stuff.

[GlacialTerror]

So acroFIGHTER takes more ranger than hunter? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Shiro_Ryuu]

My sentiments exactly...

[Nai_Calus]

They seem like the WT reqs because they *are* the WT reqs. 5 FO, 3 HU. Kind of surprising, really, but at least I don't have to worry about getting Nai any more basic class levels to go AT. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[A2K]

I like the sound of the "Just Attack". If I do recall, there were some concerns that a ditching the current system and replacing it with a timing system might make hunters less desirable to use , but the way they have this implemented sounds more like "icing on the cake" than anything else.

As for Acrofighter, it makes about as much sense as a certain primarily-melee class being named "Gunner", I suppose. In any case, The higher Ranger requirement is probably to reflect the emphasis on Shadoogs.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

A2K, yeah, I agree with you on that timing thing. At first, I thought that it would be a requirement in order to even do anything. But now, its more of a positive incentive to time your attacks than a negative one, which is awesome. As for the Acrofighter reqs, the thing about the shadoogs makes sense now that I think of it, just like the madoogs for Acrotechers.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-07-05 05:41 ]</font>

[Neith]

Agreed, Acrofighter requirements seem really odd. Acrotecher is the same requirements as WT too?

The 'Just Attack' and 'Just Guard' sound interesting, hopefully we can make out some more about these (unfortunately, I can't read JP http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif ). I've already gone through 2 controllers button mashing on PSU, maybe this will give me incentive to stop *shakes fist at fighting games*

I like the idea of faster PP regen on low HP too- considering fF has around 800-900 HP left on high critical, this could prove kinda useful.

Is there any word on any of the other proposed additions (the ones mentioned in the last thread, like the weapon size->range, Shrine Maiden/Casino Girl clothes etc)

Anyway, looks like I'll have to level Force a bit on my Newman, aT still looks interesting, as does aF.

[Gryffin]

So, if I get sick of an Ult PA, I can transmute it into a disc http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

All we need now is Ult PA's/Frags being tradeable.

[AC9breaker]

That Just guard feature sounds awesome! I always said this game needs some kind of defensive action you could, weather it be a barrel roll or whatever, this is totally gonna make battle much more exciting. Now All AoI will need is some kinds of extra mode, (c-mode or pvp plz) and this game will be a must have.

[Johnny_Future]

ROCK AND ROLL!

[HFlowen]

Good to see that they are actually implementing new gameplay elements into this update. Not just the usual, new item, map, and enemy re-skins; as in typical PSO fashion.

[Mewn]

Another highly interesting find, Espio. You have the knack for digging up this kind of information.

The PA disk change seems intriguing.

[ShawnLeeGuku]

I've heard of an "Acrotranser", which as I've heard can use any weapon type up to A rank.

Of course, I have my doubts, as it seems too good to be true.

[Mewn]

That's just a rumour. Dismiss it for now, there's nothing to suggest Acrotranser even exists, let alone is able to use every weapon up to A-Rank (which would probably be pretty broken).

[Maverynthia]

Sound like the Just Guard and Just Hit are getting back to the old days of PSO when you had to time your combos..

[TetsuyaHikari]

Wow, this is some good news indeed http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif! Thanks for the post! I'm REALLY interested in the guard feature they are implementing. I've always wanted something like that, instead of having it occur from time to time, automatically D:

Well, you good sir have made my day a lot better with this wonderful news and have made me even more anxious for the release XD

[Allison_W]

I like the sound of the racial differences being reduced. This should make quite a few people happy. (Myself among them, considering I have a human headed for Fortetecher.)

[Chibi_psu]

It will be nice if they add some kind of auto guard like in trusty bell when enemy attack you

[PrinceBrightstar]

That PA change...i wonder if PA level data will be recorded on those...and if they can be shared in the share box.

[watashiwa]

On 2007-07-05 04:48, EspioKaos wrote:
05. Easing of racial stat calculations.
Looks like the differences between races will be let up just a bit.

So maybe CASTs casting attack spells won't be so frowned upon?? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[Ryoten]

^ I was thinking the same thing. Once you max a PA, can you sell it to others if you don't want it anymore?

[Lamak]

The racial differences just need to be a cast nerf. The guard system sounds cool. o.o

[chibiLegolas]

On 2007-07-05 08:54, Ryoten wrote:
^ I was thinking the same thing. Once you max a PA, can you sell it to others if you don't want it anymore?



It better not. We all know that PA's need to be earned through hard work. Just like character and class levels.
These new discs should only work for each character. But might be interchangable through the shared box anyways since that's how pa frags work now.

But yes, I love the sound of everything else as well. Normal combos will be fun again! Woo-hoo!

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I like the easing up on the stats between races, Newman Hunters will be less looked down upon, although for magic stats, it may in some way, give less of a reason for SUVs and Nanoblasts to exist.

[ayrista]

On 2007-07-05 07:15, ShawnLeeGuku wrote:
I've heard of an "Acrotranser", which as I've heard can use any weapon type up to A rank.

Of course, I have my doubts, as it seems too good to be true.



No, but in AoI the protranser will be able to use S rank versions of all its current weps, 10 in total i think.

[Rashiid]

yay still no 'keep lvl if you delete a PA' w0ot!!

and counter? hmm....an majic counters?

[Realmz]

i'm making my fortegunner into a protranser now, after i found my love for Bows and Swords lol problem is i still love launchers and cannons. and traps too i love traps.

whee http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Niered]

I am more than overjoyed to actually see some depth in the combat system, but I swear to god that that "Just Gaurd" deal had better apply to ranged weapons as well. Im sick and tired of being shafted with one-dimensional gameplay and a gaurd system would easily remedy that.

Although I swear to god if that PA disk deal means that you keep the levels of deleted PA's I will shoot someone in the foot. There is no reason for that and having to pick and choose PA's means that you actually have a much more individual character in most cases.

Also, In before "OHEMGEE I KWITS T3H PSU BECUZ THEES CHANGES ARE GHEY".

[RegulusHikari]

S rank Protranser should be a new class requiring the curret A rank Protranser at level 10. All these noobs will jump into PT cause "homg S RNAKS" while the people who actually worked to get PT to 10 get nothing for their dedicated work.

I don't have PT leveled on my alt yet, but the point still stands to at least give us some incentive to use it now.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 10:08, RegulusHikari wrote:
S rank Protranser should be a new class requiring the curret A rank Protranser at level 10. All these noobs will jump into PT cause "homg S RNAKS" while the people who actually worked to get PT to 10 get nothing for their dedicated work.

I don't have PT leveled on my alt yet, but the point still stands to at least give us some incentive to use it now.



No thats pointless, since our job levels cna go up to 30, why have you change classes with an advanced class at 10? That fails to make sense.

Realistically, just because your pallete SAYS you can equip S ranks doesnt mean you can until you have the sufficient stats, and for an all-rounder class like protranser, thats gonna be awhile.

[RegulusHikari]

It was just a suggestion to make the class requirements a bit deeper and more complex. I thought they would have been a bit more creative with the AF and AT requirements.

But you know... you're absolutely right.

This entire time of playing PSU I expect people to have to WORK for things, to have to put effort into something to earn the things you want.

That's clearly not what the game is about. It's very laid back and newcomer friendly (which is welcomed). Surely I should have learned this earlier after having several people walk away with S ranks as if they were De Ragan Tails.

This game has NO reward for putting time and effort into the game. Because when you do, the guy next to you that barely even tried succeeds far above you 10 times over. And that's a fact. So I better start accepting it now.

/rant

Not arguing with you Niered, just stating my opinion on the game. Desta hunting has me frustrated. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Shiro_Ryuu]

For the Just counter thing, I was hoping and thinking that like you could press a button after you evade something and like do a counter attack. This may seem to apply mostly to melee though, it may suck for Fortefighters, but at the same time, it would be awesome for Acrofighters, especially Humans and Newmans.

[Ryoki]

Gib Absolute Dance.

[ShadowDragon28]

I hope there's a more accurate translation of the altered grinding system.

I really do not like the idea of stats being f.u.ba.r.'d if a grind fails. Boards are pretty darn pricey and others or so damn rare that a successful synth is lucky occurance.

I beleive that some players can be/would at a severe disadvantage if even 1 decent to above average A rank is Fubar'd from a failed grinding. That would be crummy thing to happen I think.

[Realmz]

with protransers getting their boots in their mods (ATP 120% wheee) it'll be good to be a protranser, and people will see just how good traps can be (oh sweet sweet EX traps..) then maybe i won't see so many gunner types walking around without any traps at all...

[KamiSori]

sounds like great news. i especially like the sound of timed attacks and blocks and also the adjustments to racial stats. (cast nerf plz?)

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Why are people complaining about CASTs? IMO I think Beasts seem to outperform CASTs in pretty much everything.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 11:20, ShadowDragon28 wrote:
I hope there's a more accurate translation of the altered grinding system.

I really do not like the idea of stats being f.u.ba.r.'d if a grind fails. Boards are pretty darn pricey and others or so damn rare that a successful synth is lucky occurance.

I beleive that some players can be/would at a severe disadvantage if even 1 decent to above average A rank is Fubar'd from a failed grinding. That would be crummy thing to happen I think.



Im pretty sure that all it means by "resetting stats" is that your weapon goes back to +0, and the stats revert to that point as well. So for instance, if your weapon started with 100 PP and 100 Att, then you grinded it to +3 and it had 150 PP and 150 Att, but your 4th grind resulted in a failure, you would simply end up with a +0 weaponwith 100 pp and 100 Att. I highly doubt that Sega will end up having the actual weapon's base stats lowered, or its max grind lowered as some people are speculating. Remember, everyones biggest complaint with the grind system is that its to unforgiving, so sega isnt going to replace breaking with nerfing.

[AweOfShe]

On 2007-07-05 04:48, EspioKaos wrote:
05. Easing of racial stat calculations.
Looks like the differences between races will be let up just a bit.


This outta shut some certain negative jackasses up. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ChaosAngel92]

Melee timed attacks, ward too? YES YES YES OMFG YES.
Cant wait for this features added. Umm maybe im not the unique user that didnt like this, but this thing of not loosing the weapon when you grinf. Kinda added some risk and i liked that.

Well, ok melee guys, you have your moves. Now, ok Gunners, some diferent moves as the rouges have? Some somersaults or something? Yeah, flame me FO & HU, but you know that RA needs something more.
Twin handgun rule forever!

[Zorafim]

01. "Just Attack" added

I'll assume that this is only for melee attacks. I'd have to see just how good they make it, but if it allows for melee attacks to be at least slightly worthwhile, I'm all for it.



02. "Just Counter" added

We desperately need a guard for meleers. It seems that almost everything has a way to screw over hunter types, and being able to block attacks that I see coming a mile away would be perfect.



03. PP recovery from normal attacks

Yet another reason to like normal attacks. This looks like it'll be great for soloing in low level areas, or when I run out of PP.



04. Monster areas of attack

This is more of an AI overhaul than a stat overhaul, right? Monsters really need a smaller hit box. Though then again, being in melee range and getting bombarded with barta is really getting annoying.



05. Easing of racial stat calculations.

I'm going to miss my overpowered HUcaseal, but maybe this'll allow for a decent HUnewearl.


06. Weapon grinding

This is much more appealing than our current method. I may actually grind my weapons with this.



07. PA disk change

Nothing of huge interest here. At most, I won't lose an ultimate art in order to start a better PA. Also, gib single claw PA.

[Sychosis]

On 2007-07-05 11:53, Shiroryuu wrote:
Why are people complaining about CASTs? IMO I think Beasts seem to outperform CASTs in pretty much everything.



CASTs make better Fighgunners (debatable), Protransers, Guntechers, and Fortegunners...

[ChaosAngel92]

On 2007-07-05 12:00, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-07-05 11:53, Shiroryuu wrote:
Why are people complaining about CASTs? IMO I think Beasts seem to outperform CASTs in pretty much everything.



CASTs make better Fighgunners (debatable), Protransers, Guntechers, and Fortegunners...



Yes, well, indeed, CAST are the maximous race, Lots of power perfect aim etc etc etc. All the wonders of the maravelous CAST. But they dont have something that the rest of the classes have. Style http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif. From my point of view, every cast seems exactly the same.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 12:00, Sychosis wrote:

On 2007-07-05 11:53, Shiroryuu wrote:
Why are people complaining about CASTs? IMO I think Beasts seem to outperform CASTs in pretty much everything.



CASTs make better Fighgunners (debatable), Protransers, Guntechers, and Fortegunners...



Indeed, the annoying part about the way stats work currently is that IN THEORY each race should be balanced for certain classes equally. You can come to this conclusion by looking at the deciding stats for weapons within that job. For instance, since my Newman fortegunners ATA is seconded only by a CAST, I should make a pretty good ranger. Unfortunately, there is not a single aspect of gunning down your foes that is tied to TP or MST (this is one of the many reasons why I wish that SE damage, duration, and severity was tied to one of those stats.)

Instead, newmans are essentially stuck playing forces or some type of force. Not that thats stopped me, I mean I have a ball playing my character the way I do.

But with AoI, hopefully there will be sufficient stat rebalances to counter this.

[Para]

Hmm... I think they should ease up the difference on Cast TP and Beast ATA and Newman ATP.
RAnewearl <3

As for the PA disk change... I think thats a way to circumvent the PA limit. Say you got a lv 21 Dus Daggus and you don't want it anymore on your current roster of PAs. You change it into a disk and it becomes a PA disk Dus Daggus that lets you learn lv 21 Dus Daggus?

[Allison_W]

On 2007-07-05 11:59, AweOfShe wrote:

On 2007-07-05 04:48, EspioKaos wrote:
05. Easing of racial stat calculations.
Looks like the differences between races will be let up just a bit.


This outta shut some certain negative jackasses up. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif



I posted this to the official forums. Everyone started bitching bitching bitching about how their fTnewearl or beast fighter is not going to be the uber anymore.

[ChaosAngel92]

On 2007-07-05 12:07, Para wrote:
As for the PA disk change... I think thats a way to circumvent the PA limit. Say you got a lv 21 Dus Daggus and you don't want it anymore on your current roster of PAs. You change it into a disk and it becomes a PA disk Dus Daggus that lets you learn lv 21 Dus Daggus?



Same doubt here. But i dont think it can be that easy. Lets say, ummm, putting away that PA, and if you dont want it, recover the old one. Kinda like a PA storage.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 12:07, Para wrote:
As for the PA disk change... I think thats a way to circumvent the PA limit. Say you got a lv 21 Dus Daggus and you don't want it anymore on your current roster of PAs. You change it into a disk and it becomes a PA disk Dus Daggus that lets you learn lv 21 Dus Daggus?



And this is precisely what we DONT need. Apparently the player base of PSU is a bunch of whiners that would love nothing more than to become level 10 in every job and know every single PA at level 30.

That is a stupid idea.

Think about it, the only difference between an 80/10 fortetecher newman female, and another 80/10 fortetecher newman female is their PA's. There are no stat differences, in combat, the only thing that differentiates them from eachother is the PA's that they have.

By allowing everyone to have every PA under the sun at level 30, you have essentially eliminated the aspect of choice involved in this game, making everyone nothing more than a PA leveling automaton.

[redcell]

Thanks for the info! It's kinda odd that the requirements for AT and AF are like that ... but hey, just glad it's official now =D

[Mikaga]

On 2007-07-05 12:07, Allison_W wrote:
I posted this to the official forums. Everyone started bitching bitching bitching about how their fTnewearl or beast fighter is not going to be the uber anymore.

Actually quite a few of them started bitching bitching bitching about me "finally shutting up".

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Para]

On 2007-07-05 12:13, Niered wrote:

On 2007-07-05 12:07, Para wrote:
As for the PA disk change... I think thats a way to circumvent the PA limit. Say you got a lv 21 Dus Daggus and you don't want it anymore on your current roster of PAs. You change it into a disk and it becomes a PA disk Dus Daggus that lets you learn lv 21 Dus Daggus?



And this is precisely what we DONT need. Apparently the player base of PSU is a bunch of whiners that would love nothing more than to become level 10 in every job and know every single PA at level 30.

That is a stupid idea.

Think about it, the only difference between an 80/10 fortetecher newman female, and another 80/10 fortetecher newman female is their PA's. There are no stat differences, in combat, the only thing that differentiates them from eachother is the PA's that they have.

By allowing everyone to have every PA under the sun at level 30, you have essentially eliminated the aspect of choice involved in this game, making everyone nothing more than a PA leveling automaton.

I agree... that would sorta bring down the choice factor... and diversity... we'll have to see how sega goes with this. Maybe the level won't be kept (good for those people with ultimate photon arts and dont want to hunt the PA fragments over again).

[Zorafim]

[b]On 2007-07-05 12:03, ChaosAngel92 But they dont have something that the rest of the classes have. Style http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif.


You've got it backwards. Every fleshy looks they same, and it's the caseals that look unique.
Though I'll agree, it's very hard to make a male cast not look like everyone else.

[Dj_SkyEpic]

Hawt read. can't wait for more information.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I agree with Niered. If you say that Newmans are the worst Fortegunners because of their ATP, then in that logic, Beasts would be better than CAST because of their higher ATP, and especially on Guntecher, Fighgunner, and Protranser, and in all 3 of these cases, the difference of a Beast to a CAST is greater than that of a CAST to a Human. I also agree w/ him about that PA disk thing, turning a PA into a disc and giving it to someone which will enable them to learn a PA at its maxed level is kind of dumb and lazy.

[Mikaga]

Makes sense.

The ATA modifier is so unbelievable that any race can do it, then the Beasts' superior ATP wins over. The same applies to Guntecher but perhaps not to a conclusive extent.

The highlighting thing about the imbalances were CASTs and Humans. The former is unquestionably better than the latter at everything useful in six of the seven expert types, with the sole exceptions of the strength of Wartecher/Guntecher Resta. Which wasn't really a fair tradeoff, was it?

[Dragwind]

On 2007-07-05 12:13, Niered wrote:

On 2007-07-05 12:07, Para wrote:
As for the PA disk change... I think thats a way to circumvent the PA limit. Say you got a lv 21 Dus Daggus and you don't want it anymore on your current roster of PAs. You change it into a disk and it becomes a PA disk Dus Daggus that lets you learn lv 21 Dus Daggus?



And this is precisely what we DONT need. Apparently the player base of PSU is a bunch of whiners that would love nothing more than to become level 10 in every job and know every single PA at level 30.

That is a stupid idea.

Think about it, the only difference between an 80/10 fortetecher newman female, and another 80/10 fortetecher newman female is their PA's. There are no stat differences, in combat, the only thing that differentiates them from eachother is the PA's that they have.

By allowing everyone to have every PA under the sun at level 30, you have essentially eliminated the aspect of choice involved in this game, making everyone nothing more than a PA leveling automaton.



I wholeheartedly agree. Some people are obsessed with with lvling every type to 10, and then having a messed up PA selection that allows you to play no class to its full advantage. I think they should give you a limit to the number of times you can get away with this somehow. Otherwise, you are completely right. Everyone's going to become a class raising and pa raising drone with no focus on teamwork what-so-ever.

[Dragwind]

The problem people don't see with with "oh any race can pull off fG easy" is the ata that different gun's have. Try using a 7* grenade launcher with that capped beast fG and tell me how it compares to cast fG using it. You need much more ata. Beast fG's can still pull off guns like rifle and such very well due to the high ata.

[pikachief]

On 2007-07-05 12:07, Para wrote:

As for the PA disk change... I think thats a way to circumvent the PA limit. Say you got a lv 21 Dus Daggus and you don't want it anymore on your current roster of PAs. You change it into a disk and it becomes a PA disk Dus Daggus that lets you learn lv 21 Dus Daggus?



im pretty sure they'll implement their "unlearn a PA and still have the same level when relearned."

so when u make it back into a PA disk it will be a regular PA disc and your PA levels are saved to your character or the database or whatever. and u can relearn that one or another one you've bought and it will return as the level u left off as.

so if u delete or unlearn 21 dus daggas, then buy another one or relearn it later on, it should still be 21.

[Zorafim]

I can't agree with this. Using this, the only difference between two capped fFnewearls with the same PAs is the amount of effort they've put into the job. One can apply or be capable of applying much more effort than the other, yet they still preform the same. And yet, the one with more energy or time to spend is incapable of doing anything else with her character, due to the amount of PAs that have been spent.
I don't see why having a better character can't be the end result of putting more energy into one's character. One can fully master a single job, and not be able to master another without creating another character. Even if they do create new characters, they'd still be limited to four mastered jobs maximum. Especially considering how easy it is to max jobs, and to shift from one job to another via hybrid jobs, I just find it unfair that one cannot create a master of all jobs.



On 2007-07-05 12:13, Niered wrote:
And this is precisely what we DONT need. Apparently the player base of PSU is a bunch of whiners that would love nothing more than to become level 10 in every job and know every single PA at level 30.

That is a stupid idea.

Think about it, the only difference between an 80/10 fortetecher newman female, and another 80/10 fortetecher newman female is their PA's. There are no stat differences, in combat, the only thing that differentiates them from eachother is the PA's that they have.

By allowing everyone to have every PA under the sun at level 30, you have essentially eliminated the aspect of choice involved in this game, making everyone nothing more than a PA leveling automaton.

[Realmz]

On 2007-07-05 12:24, Zorafim wrote:

[b]On 2007-07-05 12:03, ChaosAngel92 But they dont have something that the rest of the classes have. Style http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif.


You've got it backwards. Every fleshy looks they same, and it's the caseals that look unique.
Though I'll agree, it's very hard to make a male cast not look like everyone else.



i'd like to think thatMyst is unique in the fact that he's the only CAST i've seen that hasn't changed his look at all XD

all red and purple eyes bitches!

[Niloklives]

as far as reqs for AF: Expected/10
reqs for AT: I was thinking more along the lines of RA3 FO5...but w/e

in regards to the PA thing:
What's with the negative aruments toward this? as long as this only allows for a single account to retain the lvls and not transfer them to other account, I think it's prefectly legitimate. if you have 4 characters, PAs are going to overlap. to have to train a rifle or Bow PA for your GT, FT and PT sounds a bit extreme. making them interchangeable but not copyable sounds fair. Furthermore - the snowflake bullshit needs to stop. "no because if everyone can have the PA I have they'll be just like me" everyone can have the same PAs you have. but the fact that they can change them at will will allow them to explore their playstyles more liberally and ultimately allow formore individuality sinc ethey can then experiment with new PAs without fear of having to train old ones again if they don't like the outcome. More to the point - if I have 4 character and train all their PAs to 30 or 40 or 50, how is that any different from me doing it on one character? how is having 4 characters that play the span of every class any different form having one character that does it? short answer: it's not. I think this is a fantastic idea and I pray these disks actually retain PA lvl AND are interchangable within a single account. I was planning on remaking my main once AoI came out and I was begrudging the point where I'd have to retrain all of my PAs. if I can just switch them over, it will make the transition so much easier.

I really want someone to tell me what the differences are in so far as which of my characters my MP goes and which of my characters gets to use the PAs I trained. As things are right now I have 4 characters and between the 4 I can play every class in the game with a frightening lvl of effectiveness. if I want to invest the time and energy to put all that versatility into one character as opposed to spreading out amongst 4 while still being bound to racial differences, PA access depending on class, AND weapon selection ALSO dependant on class, how does this impact you? it doesn't and how can it? The whole thing reminds me of little kids who see their siblings get a toy truck for christmas. now you don't even LIKE trucks, but seeing your sibling so happy with this gift they got just eats at you til you have to find some way to rip that enjoyment from them. just so they are as discontent as you...Let it go guys.

[VanHalen]

Whoo! Only two more levels of ranger and I can be an acrofighter! Though I'm real curious on the just defend thing.

[KiteWolfwood]

I am kinda worried about this stat rebalance. I mean giving Beast more TP while they already are the best in the atp field. Beast Wartecher anyone?

No use complaining now. Just have to wait an see.

[DonRoyale]

To all those who whine about RA5/HU3 for AF:

Her Secret Mission. 100 MP on C.

Shut up.

[Realmz]

On 2007-07-05 13:17, DonRoyale wrote:
To all those who whine about RA5/HU3 for AF:

Her Secret Mission. 100 MP on C.

Shut up.



i got force5 in four runs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif one of them wasn't even an S!

[Niloklives]

one would expect that if they bring certain stats up, they'll either lower others or raise other ones for everyone else to match. So if a base stat for male beast TP were say 400 now and ATP were 800, they might raise the tp to 500 and lower atp to 750or give all the other races another 50 atp ...either or...no idea how it will go, but that's likely what we can expect.

@DonRoyale: I don't know why anyone's whining at all about class requirements. I see lvl 7s that already have their expert classes. I have a lvl 31 who took her time getting MP til recently and has maxed 2 out of 3 of the base classes and is PT4. we're talking 2 runs of "her secret mission" c which would likely be the easiest way to go...or really almost any S2 would give them the MP in one or two runs.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-05 13:24 ]</font>

[DonRoyale]

Well, that WAS a bit rude, but then again, the point got across http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Hmm...the racial gap can be a good thing. You people know that they can INCREASE stats (and just increase less for CASTs), right? It doesn't have to mean decrease...

I hope...

And uhh...that timing thing kinda scares me...I like my mashing, kthnx.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Well, the only thing I'm bitching about for the aF thing is that its gonna need more Ranger than Hunter levels, and in a class that is clearly more Hunter than Ranger (lol AcroFIGHTER)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-07-05 13:27 ]</font>

[pikachief]

On 2007-07-05 13:23, DonRoyale wrote:
Well, that WAS a bit rude, but then again, the point got across http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Hmm...the racial gap can be a good thing. You people know that they can INCREASE stats (and just increase less for CASTs), right? It doesn't have to mean decrease...

I hope...

And uhh...that timing thing kinda scares me...I like my mashing, kthnx.



u can still button mash, u just wont do as much damage as the guy mashing in rythm next to u http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Niered]

If sega goes ahead and puts that stupid PA disk idea in the way I think they are, then I have a prediction.

One year after AoI's release, the most prolific race in the game will be Human. Male Human to be exact. After all, they ARE the most balanced, and your going to need balance if your going to max every PA in the game. Thats alot of class changing.

Its the HUmar problem all over again. For everyone of you wishing for this to come true, I hope your internet connection explodes in a fiery inferno of death, resulting in the unexplainable condition of your server side characters being instantly deleted.

[Niloklives]

The timing thing means mash all you want, but people who care to actually time attacks will do more damage on the last hit..and the last hit might possibly be flashier since they're waiting til the last hit for a player to reap the rewards.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

^
I never even picked a HUmar for its balance, I merely picked it cuz I wanted a Human character who can melee. And yeah, I agree with you that I hope this doesn't go like the way you're thinking, cuz that will suck.

[Mikaga]

I don't necessarily think "lol perfect balance" (which let's remember is not Human at the moment) will gain majority simply because PAs can be relearned.

Other races will (in theory) have strengths and weaknesses, still. They'll be better-than-Humans in some way or another, still.

So that wouldn't change (even if it was the case to begin with..)

[VanHalen]

Well Humans are the largest race in Guhral so I guess alot of Humans would be ok.

[Niloklives]

most people here won't play human male even if their stats ARE the most balanced. if that's how everyone wanted it, we'd all be minmaxing and putting the best race with the best class and so on and so forth. it's not about that. it's about options. I mean face it: we have beast fGs, cast FTs, Newman FFs, PTs and FGs...most people just want a character that they think looks cool. the class portion is a secondary. Yes of course there will be a few people that do exactly as you describe. but it won't be the majority - It certainly won't be me or deja or february or any of us other loonies that don't play the game with a calculator and a paper tape in our laps. You're putting too much on it.

[pikachief]

my 3rd character is going to be a female human acrotecher, because her TP is highger than males http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif and my last character is gonna be a human male protranser for that "perfect" balance http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[DurakkenX]

I would think that all of us stat collectors would be more pissed off than anyone as it could mean throwing out an entire years work in forming a database

Also...The PA thing is great and those of you who are bitching are pretty much just bitching to bitch. You can really only hold 6-12 weapons effectively which likewise the same amount of PAs you can use at any one time...sure some people have extras, but I would say they aren't managing their PP usage right anyhow. Furthermore a job such as Ranger which relies on the switching of PAs rather than weapons for areas has been getting shafted as have been guntechers and wartechers. Both of which have to pick and choose which PAs to have as permanent parts of their character... It's not like you don't EARN PA levels (it takes months for more casual players to get to lvl 30 on 1 PA let alone all of them). PAs are the hardest thing to level in this game right now as you actually have to do something to get them to lvl. EXP just requires you to tag, and MP you can do without even playing. It adds an extra dynamic and the easing of some peoples' minds.

I hardly doubt that Sega would create a way for you to give leveled things to other players outside of equipment... remember how many problems MAGs caused. I'm pretty sure they learned their lesson with that.

Another great thing about the getting PA disk back is a simple one... You can buy all the disks and transfer them between characters as needed...The way previously would have been a huge money sink for a while and quite a pain having to go to the store and rebuy 10+ disks and also have to reacquire frag PAs (btw stop calling them ultimates they aren't ultimate v.v they're just the best we have for now) The lvl won't transfer, but the PA itself will so you'll be able to not worry about having to be completely screwed when you go to play a lvl and find oops all my stuff is useless because it's the wrong element.

Overall though...it doesn't effect you in the slightest if you don't like it you don't have to use it... You don't sell PAs anyways so there is no reason to not implement this...

[Niered]

So your saying that the majority of players dont play as either a CAST Ranger or Hunter, or a Beast Hunter?

Wrong. As much as I enjoy playing as my Newman Fortegunner, a class/race combo that is seldom used, the majority of players in PSU will not see it the same way. Humans will rise through the ranks until virtually every "hardcore" player (read: 12 year old with no semblance of a social life outside of the local Yu-Gi-Oh! match) has re-rolled them, all in an effort to have a character that knows every single PA at 30, and have every class at level 30 as well.

Yah, thats basically how its going to go down.

Luckily, I highly doubt even Sonic Team is that stupid, so if anything I believe that what the translation will tell us is something along the lines of "you can turn a PA into a disk, but it will return to its original level of 0".

If not, well, I wont be quitting, but I will say that everything that Sega has done to redeem themselve with PSU in AoI will be for naught.

[Niloklives]

and my GT is a human cause I loved my RAmarl back in PSO. my FG is a female cast because I miss my HUcaseal. I wanted to have afew other classes going too, so I tried to squeeze a much of stuff onto my human, but I gave up when I realized I loved her as a GT too much to hamper that class with an axe or twin saber. So since my love for female casts is so great I made another one with a few ideas in mind and I ended up settling on making her PT/FF. My last slot is occupied by a male beast but I hate nanoblasting and I'd rather have no ability than an ability I'll never use. so he'll likely get replaced with a newman at some point. it's the only race I've never messed with...*shrugs*

I have a strong feeling the lvls will be transfering over. this was an expressed concern they were addressing before and it sounds like this is the answer they found to it.

anyway what I'm saying Niered is that there will be people that will pick a class and then a race, but more often then not it's a race then a class. for the former, they tend to be too preoccupied with becoming one with that class to worry themselves switching about too ferverently if at all. for the latter, they're just playing to have fun and see numbers pop up on the screen. they may or may not even care if the numbers are theirs! for these people they'll likely have 4 characters anyway and so the option t switch up PAs will likely be (for them) the ability to switch out their rifle bullets for a claw skill from time to time or experiement with another class before they make an alt.

But because you can change classes so easily n this game, the people who are going for numbers will likely NOT go for a human male because rather than go for a character that's completely average, they'll want two or three characters that excell at everything they do. So for THOSE people it's more likely we'll see them with a cast and a newman. gender on the newman will likely be female, while the cast will most probably be male. anyone lazy enough to want an average human but still wants to level every PA won't be taking an active part in this project and will end up being mediocre on all sides.

That's how it will go

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-05 13:57 ]</font>

[VanHalen]

On 2007-07-05 13:41, Niered wrote:
So your saying that the majority of players dont play as either a CAST Ranger or Hunter, or a Beast Hunter?

Wrong. As much as I enjoy playing as my Newman Fortegunner, a class/race combo that is seldom used, the majority of players in PSU will not see it the same way. Humans will rise through the ranks until virtually every "hardcore" player (read: 12 year old with no semblance of a social life outside of the local Yu-Gi-Oh! match) has re-rolled them, all in an effort to have a character that knows every single PA at 30, and have every class at level 30 as well.

Yah, thats basically how its going to go down.

Luckily, I highly doubt even Sonic Team is that stupid, so if anything I believe that what the translation will tell us is something along the lines of "you can turn a PA into a disk, but it will return to its original level of 0".

If not, well, I wont be quitting, but I will say that everything that Sega has done to redeem themselve with PSU in AoI will be for naught.



If that was toward me I meant storyline wise Humans are the largest race. Hell they are one of my favorites also next to Newmans. And with the racial gap being balanced or what not my Newman Fortefighter efforts will not go in vain.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2007-07-05 13:47 ]</font>

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 13:38, DurakkenX wrote:
Overall though...it doesn't effect you in the slightest if you don't like it you don't have to use it... You don't sell PAs anyways so there is no reason to not implement this...



No. Your wrong. your wrong wrong wrong wrong. I would go itnto detail as to why all your other statements are wrong as well, but I already did that in other posts.

Saying "it doesnt effect you" in an online game is possibly one of the dumbest things a player could ever say.

EVERYTHING in an online game effects EVERYONE.

Now that doesnt mean that I feel that you should be held personally accountable for such a thing. If you want to play a CAST Fortetecher, well fine. Go ahead, I wont kick you out of my party, have fun doing what your doing.

But when the ONLY true bit of character customization has been thrown out the window, now your being stupid.

Y'see, this wouldnt be a problem if this game had more stat customization (Im not saying it should, I dont think that thats the answer here) But if it did, like, lets say that when you level up you were allowed to choose where your stats went, well then this wouldnt be a problem.

But like ive said before. The only difference between a 80/10 Newman Fortetecher and another 80/10 Newman Fortetecher is their PA's. That is the only thing setting them apart from eachother statistically.

Now take that aspect out, and you essentially ruin the entire beauty of the game. Oh sure, you can lie to yourself and say that peopple still have a choice, but they really dont. They will choose the best PA for that situation everytime. Why? Because undoubtedly they have it maxed. All they have to do is use the disk and VOILA! INSTANT LEVEL 30 DIGA FOR USE ON PLAVOHRA! AMAZING.

Take all the skill away from a game, and your left with a calculator that displays polygons.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Yeah, my Acrofighter(currently a Fighgunner/Fortefighter, but he'll retire those in AoI) is a Human because he was my PSO HUmar, and he used Musashi, Yamato, Asuka, and Sange & Yasha in his PSO days, hence why he's gonna be an Acrofighter which gets S rank Musashis. If I cared for stats, he would have been Beast already. I also have a male beast who doesn't have a nanoblast, but thats mostly for RP reasons.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 13:46, VanHalen wrote:

On 2007-07-05 13:41, Niered wrote:
So your saying that the majority of players dont play as either a CAST Ranger or Hunter, or a Beast Hunter?

Wrong. As much as I enjoy playing as my Newman Fortegunner, a class/race combo that is seldom used, the majority of players in PSU will not see it the same way. Humans will rise through the ranks until virtually every "hardcore" player (read: 12 year old with no semblance of a social life outside of the local Yu-Gi-Oh! match) has re-rolled them, all in an effort to have a character that knows every single PA at 30, and have every class at level 30 as well.

Yah, thats basically how its going to go down.

Luckily, I highly doubt even Sonic Team is that stupid, so if anything I believe that what the translation will tell us is something along the lines of "you can turn a PA into a disk, but it will return to its original level of 0".

If not, well, I wont be quitting, but I will say that everything that Sega has done to redeem themselve with PSU in AoI will be for naught.



If that was toward me I meant storyline wise Humans are the largest race. Hell they are one of my favorites also next to Newmans. And with the racial gap being balanced or what not my Newman Fortefighter efforts will not go in vain.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2007-07-05 13:47 ]</font>


No that wasnt directed at ou Van Halen, and in that regard you are correct, there are indeed many more humans than anything else in Gurhal. That comment was directed to people doubting the fact that Humans would become the most played race if this stupid PA disk theory holds true.

[Zorafim]

I'll take this post to point out that we're once again arguing in a thread which reveals information. And once again, I fell for it.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 13:55, Zorafim wrote:
I'll take this post to point out that we're once again arguing in a thread which reveals information. And once again, I fell for it.



*Breathes deeply inward in preperation for a rebuttal-*

...Oh. Dammit.

Well now I feel foolish.

[pikachief]

i still think that your PA lvls are saved to your character, so if u unlearn it its jsut a regular PA disk and if someone else learns it who hasnt learned it before its 1 for them. but if u were to go relearn the PA again it would remain what u had it originally!

see wat im saying?

[Niloklives]

Yeah I follow you. That's entirely possible. I think that might take more memory than the other method...but the coding would be about the same. We'll just have to see how they do it. I'd rather the disks just be account bound, but beggars can't be choosers and it would still be nice to keep my frag PAs (happy durakken?) if I ever need to overwrite them.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 14:08, NIloklives wrote:
Yeah I follow you. That's entirely possible. I think that might take more memory than the other method...but the coding would be about the same. We'll just have to see how they do it. I'd rather the disks just be account bound, but beggars can't be choosers and it would still be nice to keep my frag PAs (happy durakken?) if I ever need to overwrite them.



MUST...RESIST URGE...SUCH...A DUMB...IDEA...

-_-

[GuardianPoe]

On 2007-07-05 13:51, Niered wrote:
But like ive said before. The only difference between a 80/10 Newman Fortetecher and another 80/10 Newman Fortetecher is their PA's. That is the only thing setting them apart from eachother statistically.

Now take that aspect out, and you essentially ruin the entire beauty of the game. Oh sure, you can lie to yourself and say that peopple still have a choice, but they really dont. They will choose the best PA for that situation everytime. Why? Because undoubtedly they have it maxed. All they have to do is use the disk and VOILA! INSTANT LEVEL 30 DIGA FOR USE ON PLAVOHRA! AMAZING.

Just on a cautionary note, while I see your problem with the system, it's worth noting that we don't actually know how this PA Disk conversion system will be implemented.

More likely, it's something we'll have to do in our rooms or at a special shop. While you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I think it'll only be a serious balance breaker if you can actually do heavy PA swapping midmission.

On a personal note, I'm just glad to know I can at least expel one PA from my list: Foie. My newman started with it, but she went Hunter so fast she never got to use it. As a Fortefighter, she never will.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GuardianPoe on 2007-07-05 14:13 ]</font>

[Zorafim]

One way it could work is that PAs go back to the leveled system they had in PSO. You buy lv.1 disks from the store, find them, trade for them, etc. But when you unlearn a PA, it's turned into a lv.X PA. For instance, you get Diga to lv30, and decide you want to go hunter. You unlearn Diga, and it becomes Diga lv30. This will be treated as a final PA disk, and only you can learn it.
Of course, a problem with this is that you'd be able to give it to a low level character, ubering them. But then again, is that such a bad thing?

[Niloklives]

=p I told you why I want it. as long as it's bound to an account I don't see the big deal. what's so dumb niered? and none of this is MY idea. this was all said or interpreted before, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed on a few things. Don't worry though. no matter what you'll still be a snowflake to me.

x.X calm down. they've already expressed interest in letting people retain lvls on forgotten PAs, they've already announced the ability to convert learned PAs to disks. the only questions now are are these two thing connected and if so, how will it all be implimented.

[Soukosa]

On 2007-07-05 13:25, Shiroryuu wrote:
Well, the only thing I'm bitching about for the aF thing is that its gonna need more Ranger than Hunter levels, and in a class that is clearly more Hunter than Ranger (lol AcroFIGHTER)

Except the class is built primarily around the use of single handed melee weapons with shadoogs, not musashis twin sabers. In fact, neither acro class should be using either of their twin weapons that much. They're likely there for when only melee will be the best option.

You state you want to go to AF since they have S grade twin sabers and that the double saber abusing noobs have degraded the FI class. But isn't you just using twin sabers all the time being the same thing as them?

People seem to fail to realize the purpose of these classes, especially AF. AF is likely meant to be like a tank that can help out futher with SEs being fired off via shadoogs and giving them a good beating with single handed melee weapons while they do so. It is by no means a clone of the FI class.



On 2007-07-05 13:38, DurakkenX wrote:
I would think that all of us stat collectors would be more pissed off than anyone as it could mean throwing out an entire years work in forming a database

No kidding. I'll have to send them bombs if they ever think about changing the base stats. But I have a feeling what they intend to do is extend upon the racial stat bonus thing to apply to the each stat differently. In this way, they can make the races balanced out with that class while still giving certain races a small edge in certain parts of that class.



On 2007-07-05 13:51, Niered wrote:
EVERYTHING in an online game effects EVERYONE.

You mean you playing a newman FG affects me even though I've never played with you? How intriquing.



But when the ONLY true bit of character customization has been thrown out the window, now your being stupid.

Yes, because we all look exactly the same and can't tell the difference between anyone since we have no uniquness due to lack of strong customization with our appearance.



Y'see, this wouldnt be a problem if this game had more stat customization (Im not saying it should, I dont think that thats the answer here) But if it did, like, lets say that when you level up you were allowed to choose where your stats went, well then this wouldnt be a problem.

But like ive said before. The only difference between a 80/10 Newman Fortetecher and another 80/10 Newman Fortetecher is their PA's. That is the only thing setting them apart from eachother statistically.

RO allows you one to completely choose their base stats and you know what happened? People still tended to use the same stat builds. They also tended to learn the same skills as well. RO also only allows you to customize your hair and what head gears you have. Everything else looks exactly the same as someone else of that class. Yet you know what, there was still a strong sense of uniqueness between most people. Why? Player skills. Not everyone exceled at their classes the same. Some people were rather good at their class while most were down right sucky. The same applies here. You can be completed maxed out on your levels and PAs but you can still badly suck at the class. If you want to take pride in something, that's what you should do it with.



Now take that aspect out, and you essentially ruin the entire beauty of the game. Oh sure, you can lie to yourself and say that peopple still have a choice, but they really dont. They will choose the best PA for that situation everytime. Why? Because undoubtedly they have it maxed. All they have to do is use the disk and VOILA! INSTANT LEVEL 30 DIGA FOR USE ON PLAVOHRA! AMAZING.

Or they could just make it so you can't use the disc while a mission is active. I do see why this bugs everyone and it does to me as well but it surely would be nice to check things out with PAs and not have to completely give up progress you've made on that PA. They could probably also make it character bound by making it so you can't put it in common storage. Under such circumstances I don't see much wrong with it.

[McLaughlin]

I agree with GuardianPoe in thinking that we won't be able to do this on the fly. That's where the idiocy lies. I think of PAs as equipment. When you unequip your Heavy Twins they don't turn into Twin Brands, right? Why should Photon Arts be any different? It's foolish to think you'd be able to do it on the fly, but I don't see why I can't bust my ass to master a PA, and then use it when I need it. It's a preparation, just like grabbing the right weapons for the mission.

And rebalance doesn't automatically mean "nerf" either. Besides, I think the post says rebalancing of stat modifiers, and not the stats themselves.

Anyway, great find Espio. I hope to hear more about this timing/counter thing.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Obsidian_Knight on 2007-07-05 14:41 ]</font>

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 14:14, NIloklives wrote:
=p I told you why I want it. as long as it's bound to an account I don't see the big deal. what's so dumb niered? and none of this is MY idea. this was all said or interpreted before, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed on a few things. Don't worry though. no matter what you'll still be a snowflake to me.

x.X calm down. they've already expressed interest in letting people retain lvls on forgotten PAs, they've already announced the ability to convert learned PAs to disks. the only questions now are are these two thing connected and if so, how will it all be implimented.




Its a dumb idea because its eliminating the only statistical part of our characters we have any control of. By giving everyone the chance to have every PA maxed if they simply have the time to kill, your limiting the choices to "Gimped" or "Maxed". There is no inbetween.

[omegapirate2k]

Why in hell are we getting another double saber PA?

Where is my splendor strike?

[Mikaga]

On 2007-07-05 13:51, Niered wrote:
Your wrong.
lol irony.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 14:25, Sounomi wrote:

On 2007-07-05 13:25, Shiroryuu wrote:
Well, the only thing I'm bitching about for the aF thing is that its gonna need more Ranger than Hunter levels, and in a class that is clearly more Hunter than Ranger (lol AcroFIGHTER)

Except the class is built primarily around the use of single handed melee weapons with shadoogs, not musashis twin sabers. In fact, neither acro class should be using either of their twin weapons that much. They're likely there for when only melee will be the best option.

You state you want to go to AF since they have S grade twin sabers and that the double saber abusing noobs have degraded the FI class. But isn't you just using twin sabers all the time being the same thing as them?

People seem to fail to realize the purpose of these classes, especially AF. AF is likely meant to be like a tank that can help out futher with SEs being fired off via shadoogs and giving them a good beating with single handed melee weapons while they do so. It is by no means a clone of the FI class.



On 2007-07-05 13:38, DurakkenX wrote:
I would think that all of us stat collectors would be more pissed off than anyone as it could mean throwing out an entire years work in forming a database

No kidding. I'll have to send them bombs if they ever think about changing the base stats. But I have a feeling what they intend to do is extend upon the racial stat bonus thing to apply to the each stat differently. In this way, they can make the races balanced out with that class while still giving certain races a small edge in certain parts of that class.



On 2007-07-05 13:51, Niered wrote:
EVERYTHING in an online game effects EVERYONE.

You mean you playing a newman FG affects me even though I've never played with you? How intriquing.



But when the ONLY true bit of character customization has been thrown out the window, now your being stupid.

Yes, because we all look exactly the same and can't tell the difference between anyone since we have no uniquness due to lack of strong customization with our appearance.



Y'see, this wouldnt be a problem if this game had more stat customization (Im not saying it should, I dont think that thats the answer here) But if it did, like, lets say that when you level up you were allowed to choose where your stats went, well then this wouldnt be a problem.

But like ive said before. The only difference between a 80/10 Newman Fortetecher and another 80/10 Newman Fortetecher is their PA's. That is the only thing setting them apart from eachother statistically.

RO allows you one to completely choose their base stats and you know what happened? People still tended to use the same stat builds. They also tended to learn the same skills as well. RO also only allows you to customize your hair and what head gears you have. Everything else looks exactly the same as someone else of that class. Yet you know what, there was still a strong sense of uniqueness between most people. Why? Player skills. Not everyone exceled at their classes the same. Some people were rather good at their class while most were down right sucky. The same applies here. You can be completed maxed out on your levels and PAs but you can still badly suck at the class. If you want to take pride in something, that's what you should do it with.



Now take that aspect out, and you essentially ruin the entire beauty of the game. Oh sure, you can lie to yourself and say that peopple still have a choice, but they really dont. They will choose the best PA for that situation everytime. Why? Because undoubtedly they have it maxed. All they have to do is use the disk and VOILA! INSTANT LEVEL 30 DIGA FOR USE ON PLAVOHRA! AMAZING.

Or they could just make it so you can't use the disc while a mission is active. I do see why this bugs everyone and it does to me as well but it surely would be nice to check things out with PAs and not have to completely give up progress you've made on that PA. They could probably also make it character bound by making it so you can't put it in common storage. Under such circumstances I don't see much wrong with it.



The fact that I was speaking PURELY about stats in my first 2 statements seems to have completely flown over your head.

I have absolutely no qualms with the character cuztomization system from an aesthetic viewpoint. We have a plethora of hair and clothing choices, and for you to assume that I was speaking about characters visually means you didnt get what I was obviously talking about.

Your second to last point illustrates what ive been saying beautifully. Given too much choice, the choice no longer exists. When you have the choice to master every PA in the game, youre only real choice left is...well whats the best? And then thats the only set you'll use.

And Im not going to even get into why your last statement is wrong either, since Ive already explained that at least 3 times.

And thats enough arguing for me. Realistically Ive plugged up a thread about information with more than enough debate.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Niered on 2007-07-05 14:37 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

@sounomi: I agree particularly with your last paragraph, but you had a lot of good things to say...anyway I'm not thinking a person should be able to switch around PAs mid battle. but if someone says "hey I wanted to go a few runs at mission X" I should be able to switch in PAs that will help me there or switch to a class that is better suited for the mission and be able to pull out a few choice PAs for that class I might not have been able to keep on hand at the time.

Especilaly for gunners who have 8 different bullets they can get for each gun type all said and done. I'd like to be able to put away my lightning bow bullet for most places and then pull it out for moatoob. switch around my twin handgun bullets depending on the planet I'm visiting at the time, actually take a few mech gun bullets with me once in a while along with some cards. explore lasers a bit more...heck I'd like to be able to switch to fG and opt for more than just killer shot for my rifle and hae a few grenade bullets as well. or maybe I want to be able to switch from GT to WT now and then. be nice to actually be able to throw on a few skills i can make use of and toss out some bullets a WT can't access.

the ONLY reason i want to be able to switch them between characters (within the same account) is so I can remake my main without having to completely start from zero. If they'd just let us do a ONE TIME ONLY remodel of our characters using the new character creation system, I'd never give that idea a second thought.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-05 14:48 ]</font>

[pikachief]

On 2007-07-05 14:28, omegapirate2k wrote:
Why in hell are we getting another double saber PA?

Where is my splendor strike?



im sure there gonna give us many more new PAs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[DurakkenX]

it's just the first PA named in AoI v.v there will be others obviously...

thank you sounomi for back my point up....

Niered... How does me having all the PAs maxed out or not effect you in any way? They are bought/gotten from NPCs and noone sells them because you only buy new ones when you want them. The only way they can effect you is as a meseta sink... The only other way which is something i believe you were bitching about in another topic is people being prepared!

Let's step back for a second and assume that every weapon is going to have 7-10 PAs before the time the servers shut down... there is roughly 20 weapons. Every PA can lvl up to 50+ i believe right now and there is a strong possiblity that it will one day that number will be 100. Now consider how long it actually takes for someone that sets out to level up a PA to level it from 20-30...I believe the fastest time was 24 hours straight and he was trying to lvl that up solely...Consider the casual player may play less than 24 hours and most time they aren't going to be focusing on lvling 1 PA...it would take them more than 1 month to lvl from 20-30 on a SKILL, far longer on a TECH or a BULLET. let's give 1 month per 10lvls per PA...that's 4-5 months per PA and there are over 60PAs...for the casual player.

In other words you're worried about the schyzo freak idiots that level super fast while most people won't even get near a full roster of lvl 30 PAs

[RadiantLegend]

More like when do we get ult axe, sword, and spear. I could use some more fF loving.

[pikachief]

On 2007-07-05 15:36, Ragolismine wrote:
More like when do we get ult axe, sword, and spear. I could use some more fF loving.



not for a while since the japanese are getting their expansion in 2-3 months and they still havent gotten their second set of ultimate PAs XD

[Midicronica]

On 2007-07-05 15:58, pikachief wrote:

On 2007-07-05 15:36, Ragolismine wrote:
More like when do we get ult axe, sword, and spear. I could use some more fF loving.



not for a while since the japanese are getting their expansion in 2-3 months and they still havent gotten their second set of ultimate PAs XD



Must...have..ultimate..spear..PA...!!!

[fumatanera]

On 2007-07-05 14:56, DurakkenX wrote:
it's just the first PA named in AoI v.v there will be others obviously...

thank you sounomi for back my point up....

Niered... How does me having all the PAs maxed out or not effect you in any way? They are bought/gotten from NPCs and noone sells them because you only buy new ones when you want them. The only way they can effect you is as a meseta sink... The only other way which is something i believe you were bitching about in another topic is people being prepared!

Let's step back for a second and assume that every weapon is going to have 7-10 PAs before the time the servers shut down... there is roughly 20 weapons. Every PA can lvl up to 50+ i believe right now and there is a strong possiblity that it will one day that number will be 100. Now consider how long it actually takes for someone that sets out to level up a PA to level it from 20-30...I believe the fastest time was 24 hours straight and he was trying to lvl that up solely...Consider the casual player may play less than 24 hours and most time they aren't going to be focusing on lvling 1 PA...it would take them more than 1 month to lvl from 20-30 on a SKILL, far longer on a TECH or a BULLET. let's give 1 month per 10lvls per PA...that's 4-5 months per PA and there are over 60PAs...for the casual player.

In other words you're worried about the schyzo freak idiots that level super fast while most people won't even get near a full roster of lvl 30 PAs



exactly. for one thing i don't even want all of the PAs, much less spend time leveling something i won't even use just to say "i have all PAs at 30." faceboo. as soon as caps are raised or there is any kind of addition made, people spend every waking minute trying to max it out. so dont complain when you're bored.
Niered wants uniqueness from everyone having the same Pas maxed. what's the difference from how it is now? even though the slots are limited, everyone still spams the same stupid PAs and spreads mobs all over the planet, instead of using one that benefitds the situation. fTs still never debuff anything. no matter how much limitation you place on it, it will be just as you said, people find the "best" setup and stick with it. even more so now because people don't want to overwrite their PAs. it'd be like only allowing you to own as many weapons as can fit on your pallete. THAT is stupid. you don't unlearn something because it gets removed from a list. if they had the freedom to freely exchange them, they might be more apt to try different approaches. but most likely not, everyone will do what's "best"

[Inazuma]

i had planned on using the 36 techs only for my FT, but if we end up being able to save PA levels PLUS convert em back into discs, i would be sure to max out every long bow and card PA. and if i wanna do a mission where using a bow or cards is better than techs (like onma), id do it.

i dunno if i like the idea or not. i kinda liked the idea of being forced to specialize. although it sux not being able to use any bullets just cuz i wanna learn every tech. oh well, lets see how it actually works out. i dont really prefer either way.

[Soukosa]

On 2007-07-05 14:45, NIloklives wrote:
@sounomi: I agree particularly with your last paragraph, but you had a lot of good things to say...anyway I'm not thinking a person should be able to switch around PAs mid battle. but if someone says "hey I wanted to go a few runs at mission X" I should be able to switch in PAs that will help me there or switch to a class that is better suited for the mission and be able to pull out a few choice PAs for that class I might not have been able to keep on hand at the time.

Especilaly for gunners who have 8 different bullets they can get for each gun type all said and done. I'd like to be able to put away my lightning bow bullet for most places and then pull it out for moatoob. switch around my twin handgun bullets depending on the planet I'm visiting at the time, actually take a few mech gun bullets with me once in a while along with some cards. explore lasers a bit more...heck I'd like to be able to switch to fG and opt for more than just killer shot for my rifle and hae a few grenade bullets as well. or maybe I want to be able to switch from GT to WT now and then. be nice to actually be able to throw on a few skills i can make use of and toss out some bullets a WT can't access.

Yes, that would be nice. One could say they could always up the PA limit, but the PA limit is in place so you can't pull off everything while in battle. I'm personally still iffy about class hybriding. Probably due to the sense of class pride I picked up while playing RO. I could level up the hard to level classes/builds without having to resort to botting or the ever so popular leech the character up with a faster leveling class on another account. I really wouldn't mind merging my two newmans together though. Which... now thinking about it, I would really love that.



the ONLY reason i want to be able to switch them between characters (within the same account) is so I can remake my main without having to completely start from zero. If they'd just let us do a ONE TIME ONLY remodel of our characters using the new character creation system, I'd never give that idea a second thought.

Ah yes, the wonderful pains of remaking characters. I guess this would help alot. You aren't really duping your PA levels or anything, just passing it from one char to the next.

I just first thought it would be like the whole giving lv 200 Mags and a ton of stat materials to a new char like what was common on PSO, ending up causing you to blow through the lower levels faster than you really should be able to. It doesn't bother me to regain the levels, it bothers me to have to relevel all of the PAs back up, especially most of the tech and bullets which are rather mind numbingly slow to level back up again.

I guess when you look at it, regaining those PA levels so easily isn't gonna be as damaging as having higher stats right away since you're still greatly limited by what your stats can give you. On a low level force, for example, you're gonna be able to kill stuff on certain maps easily even with lower level techs. If you get higher level ones, it'll help you a bit but you total TP is gonna have a huge impact on the overall damage, as I can tell from my tech damage between my GT and FT on ones that are about the same level (like Resta). You're also held back by how much HP and DFP you have. Doing Plains Overlord with a lv 13 FO solo, you're walking a very fine line on the edge of death. Unless for some reason you synth'd up some high percent elemental 2* shield lines, certain enemies can come close to one shotting you. PSU also doesn't have an offline mode anymore where you could push forth and hit ult mode in your 30s and level like mad once you get there. They enforce level requirements on higher ranks that would give insane exp and allow you to level too quickly.

So I guess in the end, if they were to allow you to have lv 20 PAs (since basic classes max there) on a lv 1 char, it's not gonna be any where near their hax impact mags and such had on PSO.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2007-07-05 14:25, Sounomi wrote:

On 2007-07-05 13:25, Shiroryuu wrote:
Well, the only thing I'm bitching about for the aF thing is that its gonna need more Ranger than Hunter levels, and in a class that is clearly more Hunter than Ranger (lol AcroFIGHTER)

Except the class is built primarily around the use of single handed melee weapons with shadoogs, not musashis twin sabers. In fact, neither acro class should be using either of their twin weapons that much. They're likely there for when only melee will be the best option.

You state you want to go to AF since they have S grade twin sabers and that the double saber abusing noobs have degraded the FI class. But isn't you just using twin sabers all the time being the same thing as them?

People seem to fail to realize the purpose of these classes, especially AF. AF is likely meant to be like a tank that can help out futher with SEs being fired off via shadoogs and giving them a good beating with single handed melee weapons while they do so. It is by no means a clone of the FI class.




Well, I didn't say anything about using them exclusively. I may use them quite a bit, but not only them. And the shadoog does all of the gunning for you, not to mention that the skill level cap is higher than the bullet level cap. Just giving a couple of cents.

[pikachief]

wowo i didnt think news like this would cause such conflict! i thought everyone would be excited about this!

personally i think PAs have nothing to do with how good u are! so u spammed that weapon till it reached them cap... who cares? that likes saying u have this many S ranks or u got to the cap this quickly, or my ID number is this, or i have this much meseta, or i have this many hours on my game.

[Golto]

Some people are overreacting about keeping pa lvls/ converting pa back into disks. Its not a game breaker in any way. I know as a FtG I'm getting rather close to hitting the 36 pa max count with all these elemental bullets. It would be awesome to be able to save the lvls gained for elements that I'm not using much anymore but could be very usefull in future missions.

All these melee-heavy character players just don't understand how many bullet pas and tech pas are needed to be efficient for all the element types.

[DaRkWoLf30]

Sweet thanks for the info!

[Lyrise]

Since I don't see too much of a translation other than the first post, I guess I can translate said scan, and add a few bits of information that was posted over at Shougai PSO who got their info over a 4 page section in the recent Famitsu.

1. Just Attack - Espio summed it up pretty well. On the 3rd invocation of your attack command, if you timed it correctly, you'll hear a new sound, see a new graphical effect. The attack itself might have a special effect, but from performing a "Just Attack" you'll be able to cancel into a photon art as well (for those who don't understand fighting game concepts, this means the elimination of any delay of the attack leading into your next attack). Additionally, this system will apply to photon arts too, but to a lesser extent (probably means it won't let you cancel 2 of the same PA).

2. Just Counter - Who said Evasion was useless? Ok, so maybe a lot of people do now, but this might change with the inclusion of Just Counter. Taking another page out of the fighting games handbook, Just Counter stipulates that whenever you evade or block an attack, if you time it right, you can guardcancel (see above explanation for cancel if you don't get this term, but change attack delay to evasion animation/delay) into an attack or photon art of your choice.

3. PP recovery from normal attacks. Simple explanation here, all normal *melee* attacks (sorry gunners, you're outta luck here) will recover small ammounts of PP, probably in the 1-2 range. In the case of a Critical attack, you will recover a large amount, many times more than a normal attack.

4. Monster Range. this is as I explained it before but just for monsters (no sign of weapon range adjustment). Rather than chasing down players in attempt for them to lure away, a monster will now use its attack range and knowledge of its attack options to its full ability. Fear of Bil de Vear and Goushin +1.

5. ELEMENTAL stat calculations. Sorry everyone, there's no mention of Racial stat changes here. Not too many details are given here, but expect a boost that makes low elemental ratio weapons and armors MORE useful.

6. No break grind system. You know this as well as I explained it last time. And yes, this IS the -1 system they're implementing. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, what this means is, if you fail the grind, your weapon gets reset to zero, but your max grind gets tagged with -1. Fail once, yur max is +9. Fail 10 times? You have really bad luck.

7. PA disk system. Espio's posting got it right. You are able to convert loaded PAs into Photon arts disks. From further information from Famitsu, this can NOT be exploited. Once you have Photon arts levels on a disk, you can't trade the disk or sell it, and unlike the Final PA system, it's unusable to other characters, even on the same account.

8. New classes. You know all there is to it. One side note, which most of you know from my ramblings. AT cast speed for all force weapons is the fastest of all classes.

That's all for that scan, seems to me like they took factors from another franchise Sega owns, and put them in here (Anyone remember the greatness that is Guardian Heroes?). Hunters get the offensive boost they definitely deserve, and people need not fear thta racial base stats are getting changed.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2007-07-05 18:03 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2007-07-05 17:08, Golto wrote:
Some people are overreacting about keeping pa lvls/ converting pa back into disks. Its not a game breaker in any way. I know as a FtG I'm getting rather close to hitting the 36 pa max count with all these elemental bullets. It would be awesome to be able to save the lvls gained for elements that I'm not using much anymore but could be very usefull in future missions.

All these melee-heavy character players just don't understand how many bullet pas and tech pas are needed to be efficient for all the element types.



One of the people who's against this whole PA thing is a Fortegunner. I, personally don't really care if its put in or not, and yeah, I'm a melee person for the most part.

Oh yeah, *reads Lyrise's post cuz he's too lazy to read all of that kanji in that scan*
I'm glad that Evasion will have a benefit to Hunters, and I like how normal attacks are gonna give some regen to PP. Looks like us Fighters aren't getting shafted as some people were crying about. And yeah, good to hear that if you put your PA into a disc, that you can't give it to another account.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-07-05 17:44 ]</font>

[McLaughlin]

Sweet, thanks Lyrise.

[pikachief]

ahh ok! thanks for clearing this up! its gonna be like "hey u wanna do some sealab runs?" "yea hold on im gonna go get my diga and dambarta disks!"

even though you'll probably have them at all times but thats not the point -_-

and the elemental stat boost is awesome! its gonna hopefully make higher percents costs less or make hunter weapons cost as much as ranger and force weapons!

also AT casting faster than any other class made me wanna lvl up my other character even more!(their probably gonna have weak TP then http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif )

i also like how your PP goes up with attacks! when im low on PP i just do regular attacks until it goes up anyways!

also now i can one for each elemental bullet! cuz now i can just equip witch ever disk i need for which mission!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pikachief on 2007-07-05 17:52 ]</font>

[Helly]

Even less racial stat differences?
Re-learning PA's without having to re-level them?
New combat mechanics for HU-types?

I guess by this time next year everyone will be a Human fighter of some type. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


Oh well. I guess being a gunner can only be fancy stylish in movies, not games. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Helly on 2007-07-05 17:49 ]</font>

[-Ryuki-]

I had question about the PA converting. You said that you can't trade or sell,
but could you drop it? If you still have it, you never really got rid of the PA, which
technically means, you still have the skill/tech/bullet, and can't do away with it.

[pikachief]

On 2007-07-05 17:59, RyukiZero wrote:
I had question about the PA converting. You said that you can't trade or sell,
but could you drop it? If you still have it, you never really got rid of the PA, which
technically means, you still have the skill/tech/bullet, and can't do away with it.



u cant drop it but u can put it into your PM's storage http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[-Ryuki-]

But.. I don't want it in there >.<

[Lyrise]

It being like the final PA system means you can't drop it once the disk has levels on it.

You CAN put it into storage like the aformentioned post, but you can't put it in shared box thinking your other characters can use it.

edit: by sell I mean vend in player shop. Nothing stops you from offing it at the NPC. But why would you want to do that?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2007-07-05 18:09 ]</font>

[-Ryuki-]

On 2007-07-05 18:08, Lyrise wrote:
It being like the final PA system means you can't drop it once the disk has levels on it.

You CAN put it into storage like the aformentioned post, but you can't put it in shared box thinking your other characters can use it.

edit: by sell I mean vend in player shop. Nothing stops you from offing it at the NPC. But why would you want to do that?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lyrise on 2007-07-05 18:09 ]</font>
To get rid of a PA you didn't mean
to learn, or don't care for anymore.

[Shishi-O]

On 2007-07-05 11:53, Shiroryuu wrote:
Why are people complaining about CASTs? IMO I think Beasts seem to outperform CASTs in pretty much everything.

romulus agrees:)

[Lamak]

I hope they boost Human attack power a little. Nerf casts attack power, but give them a little more teching prowess. Give newmans a little more HP and make them more able to do hunter classes. And give beast some more TP. Everyone wins, sorta. >.>

[Seira7]

Timed attacks for melee characters - awesome!
Makes me want to come back and work on my future acrofighter. I knew some kind of good news would snag me and reel me in again, lol.

[omegapirate2k]

I'm liking the just counter and attack additions.

[EspioKaos]

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this! I thought I might be able to clarify some stuff while I was at work today, but I ended up being kept busy pretty much all day; then I had some things to take care of (that I'd forgotten about) after work. Anyway, I'm on this now. I'll have some more specific translations and clarifications very soon.

[Niered]

Ok so officially after hearing what Lyrise has told us, Im alot less excited about AoI. Oh sure, Ill go out, buy it, play it, love the new weapons and bosses and areas and room decos and everything else about it, but in the back of my mind Im always going to have to remember that Im playing a deeply flawed game.

That grind system? Its only marginally better then what we have now. Worse in fact for ranged weapons that have no percents tied to them. Grinding is all those weapons had going for them after all.

And by now I'm sure youve all been privvy to my rantings on this stupid new PA disk system, so I dont even need to touch that.

And lets not forget that realistically Sonic Team is just beating around the bush with this expansion pack. Hey, Sega, y'know that button that hunters use PA's for? Well, Im glad an all that youve made their job more interesting with this timed attack and PP recovery system based on hits, BUT RANGERS ARE STILL NOT GETTING ANY LOVE. Hell forces arent even getting any real love (although acrotechers and madoogs just about suffice.)

[HFlowen]

You can't really do much with a rangers system....

Except maybe more enemies with weakpoints? Like shooting them in the head in First person mode. That's the best I can think of right now.

[McLaughlin]

I can see how difficult timing a Bullet would be.

Why do these always degenerate into "This doesn't benefit me, so it sucks,"?

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 20:39, HFlowen wrote:
You can't really do much with a rangers system....

Except maybe more enemies with weakpoints? Like shooting them in the head in First person mode. That's the best I can think of right now.



No, they could EASILY do something about us rangers. Give us the ability to add both an elemental PA for the weapons actual element, as well as a special attack that would be activated via usage of the PA button. Its not hard, the only thing keeping them from doing so apparently is laziness. Think about, how much more useful would your killer shot on a rifle be, if you could use it intermittently between regular shots? The same can be said of virtually every Ultimate Bullet.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 20:42, Obsidian_Knight wrote:
I can see how difficult timing a Bullet would be.

Why do these always degenerate into "This doesn't benefit me, so it sucks,"?



I am not asking for a timing system for guns, nor are my problems ranger specific. My two biggest problems with AoI are still the PA disk system and the new grinding system (which couldve been perfect if they hadnt made it a permanent -1).

[perfectminute]

Why make the classes less specialized? Even more of a reason to be human and do every class almost as well as the race meant to be that class. And did you want a perfect grinding sytem where anyone with some mone can get a 10 grinded weapon? Atleast this keeps 10 grinded weapons from being too common, even tohugh they already are. Whats the point of having upgraded wepaons if all weapons get upgraded?

[HFlowen]

On 2007-07-05 20:43, Niered wrote:

On 2007-07-05 20:39, HFlowen wrote:
You can't really do much with a rangers system....

Except maybe more enemies with weakpoints? Like shooting them in the head in First person mode. That's the best I can think of right now.



No, they could EASILY do something about us rangers. Give us the ability to add both an elemental PA for the weapons actual element, as well as a special attack that would be activated via usage of the PA button. Its not hard, the only thing keeping them from doing so apparently is laziness. Think about, how much more useful would your killer shot on a rifle be, if you could use it intermittently between regular shots? The same can be said of virtually every Ultimate Bullet.

?

Why would a gun be able to shoot two different bullets?

[Pillan]

On 2007-07-05 21:01, HFlowen wrote:
Why would a gun be able to shoot two different bullets?


Why would a wand be able to use 2 different techniques?

Why would a rod be able to use 4?

[McLaughlin]

On 2007-07-05 21:02, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-07-05 21:01, HFlowen wrote:
Why would a gun be able to shoot two different bullets?


Why would a wand be able to use 2 different techniques?

Why would a rod be able to use 4?



Why can a Hunter learn two different fighting abilities for his chosen weapon and then only be able to implement one?

[EspioKaos]

On 2007-07-05 17:25, Lyrise wrote:
Since I don't see too much of a translation other than the first post, I guess I can translate said scan, and add a few bits of information that was posted over at Shougai PSO who got their info over a 4 page section in the recent Famitsu.

1. Just Attack - Espio summed it up pretty well. On the 3rd invocation of your attack command, if you timed it correctly, you'll hear a new sound, see a new graphical effect. The attack itself might have a special effect, but from performing a "Just Attack" you'll be able to cancel into a photon art as well (for those who don't understand fighting game concepts, this means the elimination of any delay of the attack leading into your next attack). Additionally, this system will apply to photon arts too, but to a lesser extent (probably means it won't let you cancel 2 of the same PA).

2. Just Counter - Who said Evasion was useless? Ok, so maybe a lot of people do now, but this might change with the inclusion of Just Counter. Taking another page out of the fighting games handbook, Just Counter stipulates that whenever you evade or block an attack, if you time it right, you can guardcancel (see above explanation for cancel if you don't get this term, but change attack delay to evasion animation/delay) into an attack or photon art of your choice.

3. PP recovery from normal attacks. Simple explanation here, all normal *melee* attacks (sorry gunners, you're outta luck here) will recover small ammounts of PP, probably in the 1-2 range. In the case of a Critical attack, you will recover a large amount, many times more than a normal attack.

4. Monster Range. this is as I explained it before but just for monsters (no sign of weapon range adjustment). Rather than chasing down players in attempt for them to lure away, a monster will now use its attack range and knowledge of its attack options to its full ability. Fear of Bil de Vear and Goushin +1.

5. ELEMENTAL stat calculations. Sorry everyone, there's no mention of Racial stat changes here. Not too many details are given here, but expect a boost that makes low elemental ratio weapons and armors MORE useful.

6. No break grind system. You know this as well as I explained it last time. And yes, this IS the -1 system they're implementing. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, what this means is, if you fail the grind, your weapon gets reset to zero, but your max grind gets tagged with -1. Fail once, yur max is +9. Fail 10 times? You have really bad luck.

7. PA disk system. Espio's posting got it right. You are able to convert loaded PAs into Photon arts disks. From further information from Famitsu, this can NOT be exploited. Once you have Photon arts levels on a disk, you can't trade the disk or sell it, and unlike the Final PA system, it's unusable to other characters, even on the same account.

8. New classes. You know all there is to it. One side note, which most of you know from my ramblings. AT cast speed for all force weapons is the fastest of all classes.

That's all for that scan, seems to me like they took factors from another franchise Sega owns, and put them in here (Anyone remember the greatness that is Guardian Heroes?). Hunters get the offensive boost they definitely deserve, and people need not fear thta racial base stats are getting changed.

Thank you, Lyrise. I just now saw your translation; glad I happened to browse back over the thread before going back to more translating. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

Anyway, I want to apologize to everyone for my mistake in the first post. I tried too quickly to get some information out, and it came out wrong. The racial stat thing, I mean, which we now know was actually an elemental stat adjustment. Again; really, really sorry. I didn't want all the commotion that got started from my mistranslation to, well... start.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 21:01, HFlowen wrote:

Why would a gun be able to shoot two different bullets?



Thats probably the most irrelevant question Ive heard in this thread. Since when was a gun powered by photons? Since when did guns syphon some of there strength from the wielders "essence"? Since when did guns shoot out bullets that can lower the accuracy of their foes?

There is no reason rangers shouldnt have a use for that button. If nothing else, we should get a block move for that button. At least something.

[McLaughlin]

It's understandable Espio. You got the rest spot on, which is commendable, and I, at least, appreciate the effort you (and Lyrise) put into informing the rest of us.

[Para]

that guard cancel just made newmans a whole lot better at meleeing (thats if you can master it properly)

[KamiSori]

Rangers definetly need something more in terms of gameplay. as much as i love the ranger classes i just cant play them as long as i can play hunter or force because it just gets too repetitive spamming the same button.

[Seira7]

On 2007-07-05 21:16, KamiSori wrote:
Rangers definetly need something more in terms of gameplay. as much as i love the ranger classes i just cant play them as long as i can play hunter or force because it just gets too repetitive spamming the same button.


Yea after hearing about the timed system, to be honest, I was thinking about switching my cast back to figunner. The other poster is right, if the timed system is more exciting that what we have now, everyone will choose hunter type to play. Well, perhaps not everyone, but a lot of people.

[ShadowDragon28]

6. No break grind system. You know this as well as I explained it last time. And yes, this IS the -1 system they're implementing. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, what this means is, if you fail the grind, your weapon gets reset to zero, but your max grind gets tagged with -1. Fail once, yur max is +9. Fail 10 times? You have really bad luck.

-___-; I like that a weapon doesn't break from grinding in AoI, but Dang It.
Why'd they have to include that? That's kind of messed up right there *sigh*

Casual players/non-rich with haxeta players have trouble not going broke buying boards and A grinders as it is (seen the prices for A+10 on PC/PS2 servers lately?).
Losing lot's of money on failing a grind is bad enough. Now this -1 thing is a little bit harsh IMO.

This is not so encouraging to those that tend to play casually or once-in-awhile... >_<

Everything else is peachy keen awesome IMO though.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShadowDragon28 on 2007-07-05 21:36 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

even people WITH money don't buy from playershops very often. most players are retarded. that aside, it took me 3 million meseta to make 75 A+10. so go save up and try your luck. much better than going to playershops.

The new grinding system doesn't sit too well with me either. I wouldn't mind the -1 but reseting the weapon on top of that is rediculous. it means you could never make it past +3 on a bad day and then you'd be stuck. failing twice in a row is unlikely. but failing going from +3 to +4 happens often enough that it's very likely we may never see a weapon ever make it past +7 or so...and there was talk of reducing the success rate too? pssh...

[Zorafim]

On 2007-07-05 17:25, Lyrise wrote:
1. Just Attack.

What's the difference between the new canceling and what we already have? I can already cancel anywhere in my basic combo into a PA, can't I?


2. Just Counter.

I don't understand the difference here either. Can't I basically already do this? Will the half second matter much?



3. PP recovery from normal attacks.

Ah, this is what I want to hear. Small PP boosts to recover an already limited PP pool.



4. Monster Range.

I fear, but my curiosity grows as well. I wonder how well this will be implemented.



5. ELEMENTAL stat calculations.

Too much emphasis is placed on elemental weapons as it is, I'm glad it's getting nerfed. I don't want to work so hard to get a weapon that looks just like a weaker variant anyway.



6. No break grind system.

This still saddens me. It's much more forgiving than what we have, but it's still harsh. With this, you can't have a weapon with sentimental value and make it better than a random weapon.



7. PA disk system.

So they're doing what I thought they were. That's interesting. I wonder how well it'll let me max all jobs.



8. New classes.

So, AT is getting a boost to casting speed? That's definitely interesting.

[Alisha]

zorafim canceling means you interrupt your current animation to start a new attack instead of having to wait for the current animation to end. and its fucking awesome. just counter sound s a LOT like the parry system in street fighter 3 and just defend in garou mark of wolves. it rocks



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2007-07-05 22:22 ]</font>

[fumatanera]

On 2007-07-05 20:43, Niered wrote:

On 2007-07-05 20:39, HFlowen wrote:
You can't really do much with a rangers system....

Except maybe more enemies with weakpoints? Like shooting them in the head in First person mode. That's the best I can think of right now.



No, they could EASILY do something about us rangers. Give us the ability to add both an elemental PA for the weapons actual element, as well as a special attack that would be activated via usage of the PA button. Its not hard, the only thing keeping them from doing so apparently is laziness. Think about, how much more useful would your killer shot on a rifle be, if you could use it intermittently between regular shots? The same can be said of virtually every Ultimate Bullet.



and you're complaining about taking the skill out of the game? you only want damamge plus elemental bounses plus special attack bonuses. wtf? everything is more useful if it has three functions instead of one. or you want to be gimped in some area because you don't have access to PAs that you took the time to level, because its too easy to have all of them. so lets be screwed the entire rest of the time we are playing because we don't have a certain element's PA, etc. boo that.
and people complaing about the gind change, shut the hell up. of course all the weps are going to end up +10, that's the point. to improve your wep. and you have no control over its success.
everyone wants to be maxed, capped, and whatever else and STILL be unique. its a fucking game...with limitations, and if you're worried about this stuff, then you're at the END OF THE GAME. stop playing. don't keep playing and bitch the whole time. people complained before, changes were made. done.

i'm completely fine with all the changes. ^-^





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fumatanera on 2007-07-05 22:21 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

just attack allows for not only a damage boost, but if you finish a combo with a wepon there is a slight delay unde rthe current system allowing the enemy to recover from the forced stagger. this eems like it will skip the animation up to the actual first hit, or at lest make the stagger a bit more drawn out to keep any hope of a reprocussion down to a minum.

the just counter ability in a reference to a guard break in fighting games. what this means is that while blocking - with proper timing you'll have a moment of flash time or invincibility. so you'll bde able to get in a clean hit without taking damage or being forced to block again.

as far as monsters, it means that if you're meleeing an olgamon, it will most likely try to physically attack you than turn and cast barta on a distant team mate. more over it's just saying that enemies will seem more aware of their surroundings and what their options are against you.

the changes made to the grinding system make me pretty upset actually. I have horrible luck grinding and I feel this isn't going to lower my stress levels regarding it at all...

AF attacks faster with certain weapons as well, so it's expected. I'm a bit miffed that AT and WT have the same reqs. i was certain the requirements for AT were going to be RA3 FO5 as a contrast to GT. They could at least do HU5 FO3. Though they may make that the new req for WT...we'll see how it goes.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-05 22:19, fumatanera wrote:

and you're complaining about taking the skill out of the game? you only want damamge plus elemental bounses plus special attack bonuses. wtf? everything is more useful if it has three functions instead of one. or you want to be gimped in some area because you don't have access to PAs that you took the time to level, because its too easy to have all of them. so lets be screwed the entire rest of the time we are playing because we don't have a certain element's PA, etc. boo that.
and people complaing about the gind change, shut the hell up. of course all the weps are going to end up +10, that's the point. to improve your wep. and you have no control over its success.
everyone wants to be maxed, capped, and whatever else and STILL be unique. its a fucking game...with limitations, and if you're worried about this stuff, then you're at the END OF THE GAME. stop playing. don't keep playing and bitch the whole time. people complained before, changes were made. done.

i'm completely fine with all the changes. ^-^

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fumatanera on 2007-07-05 22:21 ]</font>


No. Way to take what I said WAAAAAAAAAY out of context there sherlock! I would be perfectly fine with a stat nerf if it meant that rangers had more depth to them. I am not asking for more power, obviously I ditched that notion when I went with a newman.

[Alisha]

On 2007-07-05 22:22, NIloklives wrote:


the just counter ability in a reference to a guard break in fighting games. what this means is that while blocking - with proper timing you'll have a moment of flash time or invincibility. so you'll bde able to get in a clean hit without taking damage or being forced to block again.


you clearly dont know what a guard break is lol this is more like a guard impact.

[Niloklives]

I play fighting ames almost exclusively. when they first were being made mainsteam in fighting game mechanics they were known as guard breaks and guard cancel. You seem to be using a SNK term, but the idea is the same.

Maybe you're thinking guard crush. But what Im talking about is performing a move while guarding which cancels your guard and gives you a brief moment of invulnerabliity. like a flash worth. th idea is to keep you from getting pinned. Don't insult me.

[Soukosa]

On 2007-07-05 22:22, NIloklives wrote:
AF attacks faster with certain weapons as well, so it's expected. I'm a bit miffed that AT and WT have the same reqs. i was certain the requirements for AT were going to be RA3 FO5 as a contrast to GT. They could at least do HU5 FO3. Though they may make that the new req for WT...we'll see how it goes.

There was a theory towards the end of the AoI beta that I don't think ever got posted that the acro classes don't have faster attack speeds but rather a shorter delay between attacks which can bring about the same sort of effect.

With the AT requirement, it makes sense. AT is much more melee oriented than ranged oriented. Why give a class S grade madoogs if they're gonna be using guns? It makes no sense. The levels of the PA types doesn't always dictate what they're designed to do. From my experience with the AT class on the beta, I see lv 20 skills being just fine and I melee'd alot. This is because instead of using skills for damage, I used techs. Skills were more of what they could do and not their damage. Techs may not cast faster on AT either but rather have a shorter delay after their use. I did notice something along those lines on the beta but I figured I was seeing things and didn't bother to really look into it.

I think they could stand to adjust the WT requirements though. It's rather obvious that people make much more use of the HU part than the FO part on that class.

[Niloklives]

which is why I mentioned them changing the reqs around. I was more concerned with the fact that WT and AT had the same reqs than the ide of AT not requiring any RA levels. But if the report is accurate about AT being Force 5 and HU3, it stands to reason that WT may be adjusted in that respect...

The delay thing makes sense and would effectively be the same thing, that's for sure. might make the timing for the "just" abilities more difficult, but I'm sure they're get it figured out.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Ok, this new stuff all sounds very nice, except for the -1 max grind on a failed grinding, but I'll live with it. My main concern is if you will be able to tell how many grinds a weapon has previously failed when trading for it. This may not seem like a big deal, but there is a world of difference between an Agito Repca+1/10 and an Agito Repca+1/2.

[Niloklives]

Indeed there is

[Alisha]

On 2007-07-05 22:33, NIloklives wrote:
I play fighting ames almost exclusively. when they first were being made mainsteam in fighting game mechanics they were known as guard breaks and guard cancel. You seem to be using a SNK term, but the idea is the same.

Maybe you're thinking guard crush. But what Im talking about is performing a move while guarding which cancels your guard and gives you a brief moment of invulnerabliity. like a flash worth. th idea is to keep you from getting pinned. Don't insult me.



sorry as it say it was a term mixup between companys i as well have been playing fighting games since the days of street fighter and art of fighting.

[Freshellent]

Making AoI more like a fighting game? (Or at least introducing things that are more commonly seen in fighters.) Sounds excellent to me. It might make it easier for HU's to stand out in combat,allow for more individuality on the field in general. Yeah,I'm all for it. Actually, I'm getting excited thinking about it. There's just so much to look forward to.

Recently I learned a few tricks for WT,but it only goes so far.
I'm glad to see elements like that for HU's in AoI won't be glitches,rather actual technique and skills available for abuse.

I guess I won't have to break as often to play Guilty Gear when I get bored on PSU. With a revamped combat system in the works? Man,I can't wait.

[Zorafim]

I'm all for more fun combat. As it is, combat seems rather stale, like an RPG. These additions may force you to pay attention in order to get optimal performance. Of course, I'd rather be able to dodge enemy attacks completely, until I can come back with the perfect counterattack that'll incapacitate every enemy in front of me until I continue with a followup attack...
Meh, one thing at a time.

[Flame]

My biggest hope is that they somehow fix the slowdown in the ps2 version. It's pretty crippling to the experience. Is there any news on this at all?

[Niloklives]

news on auto frame skip? x.X not that I've heard

[Inazuma]

and what about 1200 resoultion, or widescreen support?

[Lyrise]

On 2007-07-06 08:13, Inazuma wrote:
and what about 1200 resoultion, or widescreen support?



Don't hold your breath. They do this in the 360 version because its practically it's standard. But in the PC/PS2 version, consider 2 things: 1. There are more PS2s than there are PCs, at least 20x more. and 2. There aren't as many widescreen tvs in Japan as you might think there is.

[AlphaDragoon]

Just Attack and Counter = hot fire.

The grind system's not that bad, if they hadn't implemented the -1 all the haxeta users would be able to just camp at a grinding shop with their weapons until they got max level with no consequences.

Before AoI comes out, I still hope for the following (though it'll likely not happen):

- Different attack animations for race/class. DOES. NOT. COMPUTE that a Beast Ff swings an axe as slow as a Newman Pt. Also, Humans could for example swing Sabers faster/more times than another class.

- 2 PAs on a melee weapon (since it doesn't use the other button for anything). With the Just Attack you could theoretically cancel from one PA into another...that would rock.

- Light/Heavy attacks like PSO, but actually change the animation between them instead of adding lag to the same move. This could help ease that pain Gunners feel of "one-button" fighting style and make Hunter fights a lot more fun.

- My personal quip that will really never happen, but anyway...make it so that when you equip a single-handed weapon by itself there's some kind of bonus (I use single-handed sabers solo). Something like new animation to make them hold the saber in two hands or use it like it's their only weapon as opposed to always carrying it like they have another weapon in the other hand. Or increased no. of hits, or a stat boost (single handgun gets an ATA boost for example).

[Serephim]

I actully think it would be awesome to have different animations for Single weapons.

Handgun for example, it would be kickawesome to run around with your handgun Resident Evil 4 style.

[Flwl3ssCowboy]

On 2007-07-05 05:05, Shiroryuu wrote:
Wow, now this seems awesome. I like that counter thing with the melee thing, I hope it gives more of a reason to have good evasion, and if so, my human would so kick ass as Acrofighter.


I've heard Humans would make the best AF's, which is cool since they might be "best" at a class



also single wielding bonuses or animation changes would be sweet

i miss my section id's http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Flwl3ssCowboy on 2007-07-06 20:10 ]</font>

[Jife_Jifremok]

Would the PP regen during normal attacks and the Just Attack actually be useful enough, or would it still be more worthwhile to just pop a charge/switch weapon and continue Skill spamming?

Just Counter sounds like a good idea, but...I dunno. Wouldn't PS2 slowdown make it more of a pain in the ass than it should be? Also, doesn't it only work after a successful guard? Guarding is based on EVP and chance (and not getting hit in the back). Even with high EVP, I'd imagine the guard wouldn't work often enough that Just Counter should be relied on. But, if it turns out to be decent, perhaps this could be a reason for rangers to use saber/handgun combo?

And yes, the -1 to max grind sucks. It just means more BEING LUCKY or CATASSING is required to get a nice high-grinded weapon. There's already enough luck-based bullshit in this game; it should be relegated to the casino.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-06 22:08, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

Just Counter sounds like a good idea, but...I dunno. Wouldn't PS2 slowdown make it more of a pain in the ass than it should be? Also, doesn't it only work after a successful guard? Guarding is based on EVP and chance (and not getting hit in the back). Even with high EVP, I'd imagine the guard wouldn't work often enough that Just Counter should be relied on. But, if it turns out to be decent, perhaps this could be a reason for rangers to use saber/handgun combo?



I can attest to EVP actually being worth something Jife. As a Newm FG my EVP isnt the highet of all character classes, but it aint too damn bad either.

Im still perplexed as to how this helps us though. As a gunner, gaurd cancelling doesnt sound that useful.

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-07-06 22:25, Niered wrote:

On 2007-07-06 22:08, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

Just Counter sounds like a good idea, but...I dunno. Wouldn't PS2 slowdown make it more of a pain in the ass than it should be? Also, doesn't it only work after a successful guard? Guarding is based on EVP and chance (and not getting hit in the back). Even with high EVP, I'd imagine the guard wouldn't work often enough that Just Counter should be relied on. But, if it turns out to be decent, perhaps this could be a reason for rangers to use saber/handgun combo?



I can attest to EVP actually being worth something Jife. As a Newm FG my EVP isnt the highet of all character classes, but it aint too damn bad either.

Im still perplexed as to how this helps us though. As a gunner, gaurd cancelling doesnt sound that useful.



Well, guard canceling with a saber...can't always be behind or flanking everything, right? And what if you get hit by (er, I mean guard) a goldova ram or headbutt? Sounds like a good counter opportunity to me.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2007-07-06 23:00 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

That's because guard canceling is not for gunners. but if they can use it at all, it's for when they get pined down by grinna bete vulcan fire

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-07-05 22:28, Alisha wrote:

On 2007-07-05 22:22, NIloklives wrote:


the just counter ability in a reference to a guard break in fighting games. what this means is that while blocking - with proper timing you'll have a moment of flash time or invincibility. so you'll bde able to get in a clean hit without taking damage or being forced to block again.


you clearly dont know what a guard break is lol this is more like a guard impact.



Guard break?
Guard impact?

Clearly you are talking about SoulCalibur...

[Niloklives]

guard impact was SNK's name for pressing C&D to do the blow back attack while blocking. but yeah now that I think about it that's SCs version of a parry, isn't it?...x.X too many fighting games...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-07 08:22 ]</font>

[Dragwind]

Imagine a newman aF's evasion o.O

I think this new "just counter" thing would make any form of melee just a bit more pleasing on any class ;D

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Guard Break is when the person who's blocking blocked too many attacks, and gets stunned for a moment if I'm not mistaken. Guard Impact is from Soul Calibur where you parry the opponent's attacks and it sends the attacker back.

[Niloklives]

if it doesn't ST fails at videogames from now until PS6

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-07-07 08:21, NIloklives wrote:
guard impact was SNK's name for pressing C&D to do the blow back attack while blocking. but yeah now that I think about it that's SCs version of a parry, isn't it?...x.X too many fighting games...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-07 08:22 ]</font>


Yeah tell me about it...
What is it like KOF 15 now right?..
But Guard Break on SC would be when you do a move that is not unblockable yet if they do block it causes a stunned animation to the victim leaving them open to attack. Visually represented by a bright purple flash and a loud crashing sound.
Best defense against this?.. Guard Impact. aka fuck you button mashers..
Simply press forward and guard simultaneously for the repel animation against mid and high attacks. Or away and guard for the parry animation against mid and low attacks (SC2).
But yeah it seems every fighting game 2d or 3 absolutely has to use these same terms for different mechanics making it all the more convoluted...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Octagon on 2007-07-07 08:44 ]</font>

[AlphaDragoon]

The upcoming KOF is number 12, just for the record. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Niloklives]

yes but there are also 2 3D KOFs and then a few console only releases such as neowave...so if you count all of those then yeah there's at least 15.

[Arika]

On 2007-07-05 17:25, Lyrise wrote:


7. PA disk system. Espio's posting got it right. You are able to convert loaded PAs into Photon arts disks. From further information from Famitsu, this can NOT be exploited. Once you have Photon arts levels on a disk, you can't trade the disk or sell it, and unlike the Final PA system, it's unusable to other characters, even on the same account.




so it mean that if you got lv 30 megiverse and u replaced it with another PA
when u want to change back to megiverse, u still got lv 30 megiverse back right?




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Arika on 2007-07-07 10:40 ]</font>

[Niered]

On 2007-07-07 01:56, NIloklives wrote:
That's because guard canceling is not for gunners. but if they can use it at all, it's for when they get pined down by grinna bete vulcan fire



And here in lies my biggest problem with AoI. Gunners are getting nothing. We are the most one dimensional class as is, and yet Sonic Team does nothing to remedy the situation.

I am of course very pleased to see that the hunters are getting some much needed gameplay tweaks. Regaining PP from normal attacks? Freakin' brilliant. Now Hunters wont simply spam PA's, because it will be much cheaper for them to use normal attacks to regain their PP. And that critical system? Just as great. Nice to see some timing come back into play.

It just seems that Sonic Team is forgetting about us rangers. We're an extrememly versatile and helpful class. Just think about how much faster runs are with our burn and infect! All I really want is SOMETHING for that damn PA button. Anything! Make the current Ult Pa's activated by it, not simple passive bullets. Or make it a block button. Hell, Id be happy if we could link our traps to the damn thing and use em' with that!

[Lonzell]

A bay bay!

[Niloklives]

On 2007-07-07 10:51, Niered wrote:

On 2007-07-07 01:56, NIloklives wrote:
That's because guard canceling is not for gunners. but if they can use it at all, it's for when they get pined down by grinna bete vulcan fire



And here in lies my biggest problem with AoI. Gunners are getting nothing. We are the most one dimensional class as is, and yet Sonic Team does nothing to remedy the situation.

I am of course very pleased to see that the hunters are getting some much needed gameplay tweaks. Regaining PP from normal attacks? Freakin' brilliant. Now Hunters wont simply spam PA's, because it will be much cheaper for them to use normal attacks to regain their PP. And that critical system? Just as great. Nice to see some timing come back into play.

It just seems that Sonic Team is forgetting about us rangers. We're an extrememly versatile and helpful class. Just think about how much faster runs are with our burn and infect! All I really want is SOMETHING for that damn PA button. Anything! Make the current Ult Pa's activated by it, not simple passive bullets. Or make it a block button. Hell, Id be happy if we could link our traps to the damn thing and use em' with that!



Ranger classes aren't as one dimensional as you make then out to be. every gun in this game has very different uses and are in and of themselves multidimenional in a way melee weapons could never hope to be under the current system. now while shooting may not seem as engaging to you, it keeps my attention just fine.

The reality is gunners need the least ammount of work on the part of sonic team when it comes to overall effectiveness. SEs, high DPS, DoTs, Range and a very high survival rate. these things may not get your attention as much as St wants them to, but it doesn't take away from the fact that gunners are incredibly effective in any situation where the enemy isn't resistant to bullets. and for when the enemy IS, they have SE4 to stick DoTs or the ability to freeze the enemy, be it with traps OR guns. Melee combat is easily the most one dimensional as many a time, one can just pick a halfway decent PA and spam it to get the same effect as a proficient fighter. with the new system, there will be a notable difference between a capable fighter and an idiot aside from how many scapedolls one has remaining.

But again, the Just counter will have its uses on gunners if they're able to use it. it will mainly be for rifles and grenades or for when they get cornered and need to melee to get some breathing space. it's up to you as a player to display that skill and understanding of the practical use of the new abilities we're given. if you can't find a use for it, that's your shorcomming, not the game's as I've already given two VERY clear examples of when it will be of use to you.

[Niered]

No, ranger classes differing weapons are no more diverse than a hunters. Our dual handguns? Yah, those are long range daggers minus the PA's. Our grenade launchers? Thats an Axe minus the PA. Our rifle? Its a spear, once again though, minus the PA. Oh sure, weve got nifty little SE's that pack a hefty punch, but there entirely luck based, meaning that we have absolutely no control over them.

Now our one saving grace SHOULD have been the first person mode. And during boss fights, it most definitely is. We can hit a weakpoint on a boss whenever we want to, and thats not something to laugh at. But against normal enemies? FPS mode is about as useful as shooting a laser guided missile at the broadside of a barn. Theres no need to. The hit boxes of enemies are twice their size, and there are no weakpoints on a regular enemy either. Its just as fine to whip out 3rd person and strafe to your hearts content. All the while pressing one button. One button over and over and over and over and over and over until you switch weapons. And then you do it all over again. Repetitive? Yes.

One thing that I wont argue is our effectiveness, and had you read my previous posts youd realize that I wasnt arguing that fact. Rangers are amazingly good in parties, our DoT with infect (and especially burn) coupled with our ability to render an enemy completely useless is an amazingly useful thing. We can pick up the slack if theres a lack of hunters, we can play defensively if there are no forces. We are an amazingly effective class.

That withstanding, if you were to create a poll asking what people thought the most one dimensional class was in this game, they would tell you ranger.

WE HIT ONE BUTTON OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

That is all their is to being a ranger outside of boss fights. Oh sure, mix in some strafing there too of course, but aside from that? Yah. We are totally one dimensional, and as things are, that wont be changing anytime soon with AoI, which you illustrated beautifully in your 2nd to last sentence in your middle paragraph. Melee combat might be repetitive now (although its most definitely not as much as ranged. By definition, one dimensional implies that you CANT do anything outside of the quo, whereas hunters are given that choice, even if they dont use it) but it wont be in AoI. Something that rangers cant look forward to.

[Astarin]

On 2007-07-07 12:05, Niered wrote:
Our rifle? Its a spear, once again though, minus the PA.


How is a Rifle like a Spear? *scratches head*

[Niered]

On 2007-07-07 12:31, Astarin wrote:

On 2007-07-07 12:05, Niered wrote:
Our rifle? Its a spear, once again though, minus the PA.


How is a Rifle like a Spear? *scratches head*



Best range of either types weapons, and dus daggas insane damage is similar to the retarded amounts of damage invoked by burn or infect.

[Realmz]

i would say the laser cannon is more like a spear, personally, when i was a fG and buffed up i could get over 250 with my cannon on the right mobs..

[Niered]

On 2007-07-07 12:42, Realmz wrote:
i would say the laser cannon is more like a spear, personally, when i was a fG and buffed up i could get over 250 with my cannon on the right mobs..



Okay, fine the spear is like a laser cannon, realistically were arguing points here that were simple analogies and really have little to do with my point.

*sighs* sorry, that sounded hostile. What I mean is, my point still stands, rangers are a completely one dimensional class, and as effective as they may in fact be, they are in DIRE need of something to perk up their playstyle.

[Golto]

I agree that rangers needs something too. Make use of that pa button on two handed ranged weapons to be able to equip a different elemental bullet to it.

[Niloklives]

See I agree that two handed guns should be able to use a second bullet. especially rifles, nades and lasers. it's not far fetched to see these weapons with a second cartrifge or something

But I mean rangers have guns that can almost completely negate the need for a hunter. I say they're multi dimentioanl because their guns make almost any situation a cakewalk and unlike a FF which is about as hunter as it gets, they have use of traps to stick DoTs and other SEs on thing their guns won't work on. plus they still have limited access to melee weapons to a degree that far outshines that of a FF. and come AoI they get full combos on all one handed weapons they can use meaning they'll have even LESS use for a hunter in their party. fG versatility gets a slight boost in AoI in addition to stat boosts and higher lvl bullets. you can feel they're 1 dimentional as of now, but they're so good, giving them any more of an edge will make them just as overpowered in AoI as they are now.

The binding 2 bullets thing just means I can have a single phantom +10 and have both Ice and virus on it...or fire and shock. this is a utilitarian thing and only cleans up their palette a bit, but it's not game breaking. so I'd be all for that. Heck my GT could make use of that on her bow. my PT would love that on her bows shotguns lasers and grenades. itwould make my palette a bit easier to manage, and wouldn't require that i constantly switch between bullets or have multiples of the same gun on my palette on a regular basis. I'm all for that. But I think hunters would complain more because it would mean rangers needed to grind weapons or worry about such things even less than they do now...though I've come to find anything anyone gets in this game gives everyone a free whine ticket.

As I said before, a ranger's effectiveness and versatility makes them far less one dimention than you like to portray, and the just cancel system should be perfectly useable as a ranger in the right situations. I know I'll be making use of it in various situations.

[Chaobo99]

well,on my opinion,a good fighter can easily out damage any burn or an infection at SE4 with the right moves and the mult-point hitters.
Say Gol Dova, burn SE4 does 3200? A good fortefighter or fighgunner can bust out their twin daggers,axe,or double saber and hit all 3 or whatever of his points.With a average elemental % you can hit 400-1000 damage per point times the number of hits in the combo times the number of combos and attack modifiers. lets say Hishou-Jiren Zan does 500 to each of his points with a 38% ice..whatever.thats 500x3x3+500x3x3x3+500x3x3x3x3x3 pretty darn fast to over and over. I think that's how the math is done v_v; I did the math before but i forgot now (^_^;).

ANYWAYS.....this is about aoti so yea.

[Flwl3ssCowboy]

ITT: We talk about rangers instead of AoI

[Niloklives]

sure but burn is just extra damage on top of that an doesn't require you be anywhere near anything to inflict it. and not all enemies have 3 or 4 different sections on them, so that hardly carries over anywhere. Forther more, it doesn't matter how much damage you can do potentially if you're getting send sailing across the screen or are stuned and getting beat on. that 3200 damage every few seconds is basically free. you can't beat that.

[ChaosAngel92]

On 2007-07-07 14:36, Flwl3ssCowboy wrote:
ITT: We talk about rangers instead of AoI



Due to this little comment that i totally agree, and the moderators note on top of the screen, i decided to create this. I really hope it works and not screwing up the things again.

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=147224&forum=20&start=0&0

[LTrav2k]

The "just" variations of combat look awesome! Wow, I'm really late at reading all this stuff http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I'm wondering how much leeway there will be with the cancel afterwards, as well as the properties of the attacks after a just guard... such as an added stagger more so than immediate extra damage. Or maybe the counter effect being totally weapon dependant would be nice (i.e. a just counter punch from knuckles to knock a monster away; or an axe causing the wipe out effect, whereas a saber would produce a stagger where the monster would generally still be standing, maybe after blocking with a spear the just counter would have you use the spear as a pole vault to kick the mob). Some unique stuff would be nice, but then again if it only has that animation it'd probably still get old rather quickly.

I'm excited to see that true cancels are being worked into the system, and I'm also interested if other aspects will become timing based (i.e. rangers being able to shoot something that's winding up an attack and cause them to stagger) in the future. Maybe not in this expansion, but if the ideas are fundamentally sound it can defintely swing the action in the right direction.