The future of Rangers. Suggestions? Comments?

[ChaosAngel92]

So, this is one of my absurd tries to do something good and not screw up every topic i post. The objective here is to discuss all the commotion of Ranger job on a future, as you can read in the following topic.

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=146826&forum=20&162

Im sorry if there is an already opened topic for this, i just well, want to do some good to the forums, i always post worng or something stupid.

Right lets get down to business, so yeah i understand there is nothing much to do for rangers. I yeah, probably this "body part" concept, like if you hit the head of an enemy, you will do more damage.

also i have been always suggested some extra movement for the Rangers. I mean, you can move with twin handguns but something kinda like a somersault to the sides to avoid some of that terribles megid. Thats what i always suggested, but its probably too much for Rangers (and melee players would jump inmediatly saying "OMFG we want that too"). also i agree witht he part of shooting two diferent bullets.

The problem here is that Ranger class is see as a support class. At least ST and much players look us in this way. So that means we will never have something beyond, shooting to help infliction some type os status effect, or covering while a funny fortefighter gets his/her way to reach an enemy. So here is a remaining question. Does Ranger class will ever go further than the support? Or, does ranger class can go further than the support?

Also i have been thinking about a new type of "organisation" for the Ranger class. That you can put your own set of dual pistols, amking your own combination. The PP would be equal to de + of both pistols. Things like this, that is nor more than simple illusions of a Twin Handgun player.

This is how i see the stuff about RA. Im so sorry if this was posted earlier or i didnt notice. Really, i dont want to keep screwing up everytime i post.

Comments? Suggestions? why not? what new ideas you have for RA class?

Have a nice day

[Zorafim]

You can do thousands of damage to enemies in a matter of seconds, completely ignoring their defenses. The bigger the enemy, the more harm you can cause it. All this outside of the enemy's attack radius.
You guys are fine.

[Chuck_Norris]

Rangers should get a MOVING FPS mode, Aim with the right joystick, Shoot with the trigger, Full on halo controls, And throw in a BXR melee move for the hell of it.

[Mayu]

On 2007-07-09 01:04, Zorafim wrote:
You can do thousands of damage to enemies in a matter of seconds, completely ignoring their defenses. The bigger the enemy, the more harm you can cause it. All this outside of the enemy's attack radius.
You guys are fine.

What he said

[Niloklives]

On 2007-07-09 01:08, Ryuugu-Rena wrote:

On 2007-07-09 01:04, Zorafim wrote:
You can do thousands of damage to enemies in a matter of seconds, completely ignoring their defenses. The bigger the enemy, the more harm you can cause it. All this outside of the enemy's attack radius.
You guys are fine.

What he said



Second'd/10...lol and I primarily play as a ranger class.

[ChaosAngel92]

On 2007-07-09 01:04, Zorafim wrote:
You can do thousands of damage to enemies in a matter of seconds, completely ignoring their defenses. The bigger the enemy, the more harm you can cause it. All this outside of the enemy's attack radius.
You guys are fine.



Yeah, we are fine, but it can get boring sometimes. I think we rangers want is more variety on the way of attacking. Probably same as Forces want some of that too. Melee is having this diferences. Sorry if i sound concerned about the damage, but no really.

Its a little like this let me explain it. Melee fighters have to move around the enemy to make a great attack and jump to stab a saber in their head. Forces have variety of attacks, they can strike right in the enemy or simply surroinding their body with some nice tech. Rangers only shoot, and nothing further than that, probably with the FPS gives a big advantage to the Rangers, but you shoot fliying things to knock them down and kill it with some knife. What i mean here is what i already said, more ways of attacking. We dont want to just shoot. (by the way, im having a vision from the future that someone will quote this sayin "Does rangers are suppoused to do something more?")
In fact that is why i love twin handguns and i always will. You can move while attacking and avoid some stuff while attacking and moving. Thats why i suggest these movement things for the RA.
But so sorry really, but i never wanted to meant about damage or stats.

[ChaosAngel92]

On 2007-07-09 01:12, NIloklives wrote:

On 2007-07-09 01:08, Ryuugu-Rena wrote:

On 2007-07-09 01:04, Zorafim wrote:
You can do thousands of damage to enemies in a matter of seconds, completely ignoring their defenses. The bigger the enemy, the more harm you can cause it. All this outside of the enemy's attack radius.
You guys are fine.

What he said



Second'd/10...lol and I primarily play as a ranger class.



Forums & Users: 23137189 ChaosAngel92: 0

STRIKE 3!

[Niloklives]

it's ok, really. the topic is still of major debate. don't wory so much about it. heck what do -I- contribute? don't stress over it, I was just saying I agree..not "chaos should never post again" =) thanks for taking to the time to make the topic and posting a link in that AoI thread. good thinking

[Zorafim]

That's my quarl with rangers as well, it just seems so boring to play. You just press a button, and the gun attacks for you.
However, you guys are also capable of soloing some of the most difficult areas of the game, something I can never hope to do as a hunter. That should raise your aesthetic worth, shouldn't it?

[Niloklives]

I don't find rangers boring at all. every time I stick an SE, I look at my enemies and say "yeah you're my little bitch now" takes away from the dulldrum of just sitting and pressing a button. but I enjoy playing just about anything with guns. fG and GT of course...but anything really

Hunters are fun too. what people don't quite get is that these new additioned announdes are more for balance than for fun...but it certainly adds to that as well...Rangers are incredibly powerful...if they're not as exciting, that's the price you pay for being godly.

[Criss]

ST should add some kind of evasive maneuver. Heck, even those rogues in Linear Train can do dodge rolls. The animation data is already in the game, just add it to players and map it to our unused PA button.

But frankly, this is something that should be added to every class. The game itself lacks any possible defensive action other than "tilt the stick and hope you run out of harm's way in time". And blocking is not an action. At least not until AoI.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I personally think that they should nerf Rangers and at the same time give them new, cool-looking, interesting things that'll make them less one-dimensional. How? Well, I don't know, I just think it'll be cool if they did. I don't really get the stat boosts though.But yeah, I kind of see the different types of guns as Sega's way of giving variability to Rangers, although some of you feel that it still doesn't add much to their game.

[jayster]

On 2007-07-09 01:26, Zorafim wrote:
That's my quarl with rangers as well, it just seems so boring to play. You just press a button, and the gun attacks for you.
However, you guys are also capable of soloing some of the most difficult areas of the game, something I can never hope to do as a hunter. That should raise your aesthetic worth, shouldn't it?



I cry for the mentally challenged hunter. Fighgunner is a PSU soloer's best friend. Twin handguns + mechguns for bullet weak monsters, melee weps for melee weak monsters. TRAPS! Learn the class, it's GODLY.

[Raven5_1]

On 2007-07-09 05:26, jayster wrote:


I cry for the mentally challenged hunter. Fighgunner is a PSU soloer's best friend. Twin handguns + mechguns for bullet weak monsters, melee weps for melee weak monsters. TRAPS! Learn the class, it's GODLY.



seconded. i'm only a level 2 fightgunner and cant use the high level stuff like claws and double saber but i'm loving the fact i can currently use mechguns and twin handguns along with twin daggers and sword i cant wait to explore traps and the other stuff.

[panzer_unit]

Use a laser cannon if you think rangers are boring. You've got to use movement, terrain, and FPS to keep getting those nice 3+ target shots.

[Akaimizu]

I wouldn't have fallen in love with the Guntecher class, if it wasn't for so many specific best-used weapons for each different situation. It's quite a lot of variety in a similar case that a Hunter has different weapon types. Support doesn't have to begin and end with Landing a Status effect, some guns have uses for different types of support.

[Niered]

Gahdammit. Yes. Rangers are an outstanding class as far as effectiveness. Noone is arguing that fact. NOONE EVER WAS ARGUING THAT FACT.

What the OP is arguing, and what is widely held as TRUTH, is the fact that rangers are immensely one dimensional. This would be fixed if their PA button was given something, virtually anything, to do.

And no, a moving FPS mode is not the answer to our problems. Your still tap-tap-tapping away at ONE button, and it just makes more of a powewrhouse than we already are.

I have been behind the inclusion of a dodge move since the beginning of PSU. Especially in S2, it is damn near impossible to dodge enemy charges. I want a dodge move that when activated PROPERLY (read: It needs to take some gahdamm skill) can get me out of harms way.

[natewifi]

Charging bullets, and bashing your enemies with guns would be nice, and instead of laser cannons piercing they do continuous hits on one enemy.

[Akaimizu]

I wasn't even stating my idea as a question of effectiveness, but in how it's used. I guess if somebody sees firing one type of gun as the same as firing another type of gun, then so be it. I just don't see it that way. They do different things with bullets that travel differently. Sure, they have little button variety (neither do techs), but they still have weapon variety.

A dodge move though would be interesting. Those with Twin Guns would probably get a hoot out of pulling a Chow Yun Fat.

Edit: As for gun bashing. That would be humorous, at least. The first game I saw rifles running out of bullets and immediately going into melee with them was "Wasteland". http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-07-09 08:01 ]</font>

[natewifi]

Grenade launcher range control, and instead of xbows spreading, they fire 3 bullets straight making it and the spread unique from each other, that would be nice.

[Akaimizu]

Not sure what you're asking about Xbows. Remember, if they fire straight, then they'll be treading closer to Twin Handgun territory. Without the range, of course.

[Eligaz]

I want mouse support for FPS mode. :3

Won't happen. ;_; I know.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-07-09 08:03, Eligaz wrote:
I want mouse support for FPS mode. :3

Won't happen. ;_; I know.



Hehe. Next thing I'll hear is that people will want Zig-zag jump acceleration ala. Quake. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-09 07:50, Niered wrote:
I have been behind the inclusion of a dodge move since the beginning of PSU. Especially in S2, it is damn near impossible to dodge enemy charges. I want a dodge move that when activated PROPERLY (read: It needs to take some gahdamm skill) can get me out of harms way.


So basically your complaint is that gunners aren't overpowered enough, and they've got a free button, so they should have invincibility against the only kind of attack a some non-zero chance of hitting someone who's free to attack while moving.

LOL maybe one day on a class called Emogunner. We could abbreviate it T_TG

[Para]

I can understand people thinking Rangers can be boring with the uber repetitiveness of 1 button... maybe I gotten used to it but nothing's better popping a cap in the ass of a monster.

Maybe we should get alternate fire attacks like in Unreal Tournament XD;

[Akaimizu]

Thing is, in reality, I never stick with one button.

My actual real gunning typically requires 3 or 4 buttons as I'm hardly on the same weapon for more than 3-4 seconds, at a time. Rare exceptions with areas with rediculous monster numbers of the same creature. Like certain versions of Sea Bed with the areas full of Volfus.

Even jarbas are often a multi-weapon job. Somewhere between Bow to land the effect, Ice Twins to drill the fast Direct damage on top, perhaps Ice Rifle or Traps to freeze them to drop their EVA to zero, making it easier to land infect. (That is, unless you're a class that can use Infect traps and can start with that)

Most hunters I know never swap weapons anywhere near as fast so they deal with the attack and special attack buttons more, where I more often use weapon swapping. This is even in comparison to the more active hunters who always swap to correct elements. Of course, that does mean lag can hurt us more, but no big deal.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-07-09 08:14 ]</font>

[Niered]

On 2007-07-09 08:05, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-07-09 07:50, Niered wrote:
I have been behind the inclusion of a dodge move since the beginning of PSU. Especially in S2, it is damn near impossible to dodge enemy charges. I want a dodge move that when activated PROPERLY (read: It needs to take some gahdamm skill) can get me out of harms way.


So basically your complaint is that gunners aren't overpowered enough, and they've got a free button, so they should have invincibility against the only kind of attack a some non-zero chance of hitting someone who's free to attack while moving.

LOL maybe one day on a class called Emogunner. We could abbreviate it T_TG



Your an idiot. Sorry, I cant sugar coat that.

You failed to mention in your quote that I have stated over and over and over that I feel that rangers are an amazingly powerful class. Effectiveness is not a problem. Try realizing that next time before you go making arguements. The problem is their boredom inducing gameplay.

Now obviously anything that is put on that PA button is going to give rangers a little more of an edge, which is why I feel that a nerf to some of our stats might be in order if this was included. Preferably our defense, thus causing a dodge maneuver to be almost required for us to survive.

The other possibilities I have mentioned include taking the current Ultimate PA's for guns and making them secondary PA's. In other words, theyd handle just like they do now, but would be activated on your gun by pressing the PA button. This way you could fire regular elemental bullets for damage, and then use a non-elemental special bullet for certain situations that require it. I.E. use twin mayalee to lower the defense of an enemy like you do normally, then use the dualies elemental bullets to deal damage.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-09 08:14, Niered wrote:
Your an idiot. Sorry, I cant sugar coat that.


I'm not the one suggesting that gunners should have a move for dodging their only real threats. Take away stats all you want, all you would need to own the game is quick fingers and virus or burn. Being good at videogames isn't that hard.

The alternate-PA thing is basically covered already, because you can instantly switch between same-model weapons regardless of grinds, elements, linked PA's, etc.

I find I work pretty hard as a Fortegunner... taking care of traps, keeping a maximum number of targets immobilized with mayalee prism or grenade launcher, going for multi-hits with shotgun, lining up marks for laser cannon, teamkilling my squad (or trying to avoid it) with killer shot in a room full of robots... some Rising Strike to fill holes in defensive SE coverage... with all the tactical target/weapon/SE selection and positioning there's very little time to care that all my attacks are coming off of square instead of triangle.

[Niered]

On 2007-07-09 08:59, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-07-09 08:14, Niered wrote:
Your an idiot. Sorry, I cant sugar coat that.


I'm not the one suggesting that gunners should have a move for dodging their only real threats. Take away stats all you want, all you would need to own the game is quick fingers and virus or burn. Being good at videogames isn't that hard.


When did this become an arguement about the difficulty of video games in general?


On 2007-07-09 08:59, panzer_unit wrote:
The alternate-PA thing is basically covered already, because you can instantly switch between same-model weapons regardless of grinds, elements, linked PA's, etc.


Hey geuss what! Hunters can do that too! And they get a Skill PA button! Hell, forces get 4 on a rod!


On 2007-07-09 08:59, panzer_unit wrote:
I find I work pretty hard as a Fortegunner... taking care of traps, keeping a maximum number of targets immobilized with mayalee prism or grenade launcher, going for multi-hits with shotgun, lining up marks for laser cannon, teamkilling my squad (or trying to avoid it) with killer shot in a room full of robots... some Rising Strike to fill holes in defensive SE coverage... with all the tactical target/weapon/SE selection and positioning there's very little time to care that all my attacks are coming off of square instead of triangle.



Apparently you dont seem to realize that we arent arguing on the difficulty of playing a ranger. Thats not what this conversation is about. Sure, you have to designate targets and apply SE's accordingly. Take that as you will, you cannot deny the fact that you are still doing it with ONE button. As I have stated before, if Sega linked a gameplay mechanic, ANY gameplay mechanic to the Skill PA button, it would make me, and alot of other bored gunner's VERY happy.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Niered on 2007-07-09 09:07 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

yeah but niered you can do that now by putting two wepons of the same type on your palette. you can put burning prism and mayalee prism on two different lasers and have both lasers on the palette for the exact same effect. all you're suggesting is something to clean up the palette a bit...which is turn would make ranger types even MORE effective.

What panzer was trying to say was that ranger effectiveness...especially fG effectiveness is so incredible right now, anything to make them more interesting or more efficient is going to make them that much more incredible in this game. if they're going to give rangers dodge rolls or multiple bullet types, they'll have to nerf the classes somewhere, probably by way of stat reductions.

And I've said it just as much as others have said it if not more so: the various gun types are not as 1 dimentional as you make them out to be. yes you only press the attack button and not the PA button, but each fun requires different positioning and a full understanding of how the weapon works to get the most out of them. in many case this means most gunners don't use all the options they have at their disposal, but this is not a shortcomming of the class or ST; rather it's a shortcoming of the individuals.

I feel it take a lot more to be a good ranger than it takes to be a good hunter, and I play both classes quite a bit. the problem with hunters is that there are so many copies of a PA, you can generally find 3 or 4 weapons that do the same thing PA wise, and with normal attacks almost useless in this game cureently, most hunters can easily get away with using 3 PAs spread amongst 2 weapons and feel quite accomplished. This is NOT to say that hunters are one dimentional, but weapon variety is far less substantial or apparent for melee weapons.

But that's not even the reason the new abilities are being given; rather that's just something that's being semi fixed with the "just" abilities. But the real issue is that as effective as rangers are, they also are in many cases impossible to take out if they're even remotely attentive. their range lets tem see attacks coming a mile away, and their rifle lets them stop most charge attacks with a single shot. yet hunters get swarmed, have little time to react, get pounded, and don't have the stats to make up for it. But rather than double a hunter's hp, or give them enough defense to nulify many attacks, they're implimenting some features that make it so they don't get beat on quite so hard if they wish to take advantage of them. And even rangers will be able to use these abilities to their advantage in certain situations, so it's not as though this is solely a hunter ability. But this is primarily something implimented for balance, and the complaint that rangers are one dimentional only holds true if you let it.

P.S. Panzer is arguing that the 1 button part of being a ranger doesn't make it 1 dimentional. Niered, you seem to be saying that it's one dimentional no matter what if there's only action button which happens to be the trigger. so the real argument at this point is what defines 1 dimentional...but many people don't seem to see things your way in that respect. personally I think if you're really as bent out of shape over something as simple as whether or not you get to press triangle as you seem, you're having a hard time seeing the forest for the trees.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-09 09:23 ]</font>

[Nuclearranger]

I have played my ranger for over 1300hours or so and I dont get bored. But adding maybe a secondary PA to my B button *X360controler on PC* Would be welcome anything on that button would be welcomed but it isnt nessesary. There is allready enough to do as it is. Rolls and stuff would IMO be way to flashy lol Fun but everyone would want to be a ranger then....... unless hunters got it too. And if you could roll it should only be for lighter weapons cause Id love to see you roll with a Nade launcher lol

[Niered]

And officially I am done arguing a fact. A FACT. Ask anyone, ANYONE basically, and they will tell you that the single most boring class to play is Ranger. Dispute this no more. We TAP ONE BUTTON UNTIL THE SUN EXPLODES IN A SUPERNOVA, BATHING THE EARTH IN MORE HEAT THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE, DESTROYING US ALL. We tap one button for eternity.

Now you can all go on lying to yourselves that we ARENT getting the shaft in AoI. Forces get their new madoog toy and new tech effects at 31, hunters get their "Just" abilities, and we get? Well we get shadoogs. The semi-retarded cousin to the madoog. The cousin thats always just a little too far over in the family photos to actually see.

Oh sure, you can chalk it up to, "Were already overpowered, so giving us anything more would make us broken". But we all know that depending on a stat nerf in certain areas, this would be a non-issue. Hell, if they did the "Ult Pa into a skill" thing Im talking about, we wouldnt even NEED a nerf.

And that weapon arguement? The one that states that our weapons are "sooooo different" that we dont need a second button? Bullshit. Hunters have an amazingly diverse array of weapons, and they have a skill button to boot.

So go ahead, continue thinking to yourselves that in AoI, we'll still be just as much fun to play as the other classes. I wont be hindering your head-in-the-ground technique anymore.

[Niloklives]

Niered...compare things like dus daggas, spinning break, assault crush, moubou something or other-zan, boga danga, and quite a few other PAs. the only variety in there are costs and DPS. but all in all they're almost as much the same move as the 6 bullets for one gun, but the 6 bullets you can validate changing up for various reasons. as a hunter you only need ONE of those. tornado break, renkai, dus robado, gravity dance: again same deal as before. they do pretty much the same thing spread between 4 weapons. only one is required. Buten shuren zan, rising crush, hishou blah blah zan, rising strike, spiral dance. basically the same move. as well and anga durega vs tornado dance? I think I've made my point.

rangers only press square, hunters for the most part only press triangle. but rangers at least have some variety in their bullets. and they have different weapons to use fo different situations. as a hunter I can get away with spaming dus daggas on most everything and then using spiral dance tolock down and quickly kill large things. and many people see me doing that and think I'm uber. sounds pretty 1 dimentional to me...

[jayster]

On 2007-07-09 09:42, NIloklives wrote:
Niered...compare things like dus daggas, spinning break, assault crush, moubou something or other-zan, boga danga, and quite a few other PAs. the only variety in there are costs and DPS. but all in all they're almost as much the same move as the 6 bullets for one gun, but the 6 bullets you can validate changing up for various reasons. as a hunter you only need ONE of those. tornado break, renkai, dus robado, gravity dance: again same deal as before. they do pretty much the same thing spread between 4 weapons. only one is required. Buten shuren zan, rising crush, hishou blah blah zan, rising strike, spiral dance. basically the same move. as well and anga durega vs tornado dance? I think I've made my point.

rangers only press square, hunters for the most part only press triangle. but rangers at least have some variety in their bullets. and they have different weapons to use fo different situations. as a hunter I can get away with spaming dus daggas on most everything and then using spiral dance tolock down and quickly kill large things. and many people see me doing that and think I'm uber. sounds pretty 1 dimentional to me...



owned!

hunter does get sort of boring. I like how with rangers, you get shotguns, grenade launchers, laser cannons, rifles, et al. I don't see how that's not variety when each weapon does something different and is used in different situations, not to mention all the bullets for each one. I wish I had a pa that could kill in one hit http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


PS: I just realized this is my 820th post!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jayster on 2007-07-09 09:47 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-09 09:06, Niered wrote:
Sure, you have to designate targets and apply SE's accordingly. Take that as you will, you cannot deny the fact that you are still doing it with ONE button. As I have stated before, if Sega linked a gameplay mechanic, ANY gameplay mechanic to the Skill PA button, it would make me, and alot of other bored gunner's VERY happy.


I'm pointing out that your suggestions for "livening things up" if taken seriously, would just be a ridiculous advantage on Gunners' behalf. It's already a class where like 90% of the final grade is just based on attendance... all you need are stats high enough you don't constantly miss or deal 0 damage... the last thing it needs are fanboy gameplay mechanics. Take some ritalin if you're getting bored.

This is a really simple case of The Grass Is Greener On The Other Side Of The Fence because other classes lose out on variety elsewhere. Let's summarize the tradeoffs:
Tech weapons only come in 2 weapon classes and have to level all their skills to 21 before they're useful in the least for difficult missions
Striking weapons have one third the PP and regen rate of guns, and no value (like SE) from off-element weapons for a target
Guns only have one attack button (plus switching to FPV) ... hmm WINNER

[Rashiid]

rangers had a past?

[Niloklives]

many of us remember it as PSO...they were broken back then too...xp

[Aralia]

Agreed, a Dodge move would be perfect for triangle.

I can't count the number of times I -saw- the foie/diga/megid/kognad/goldolva/etc... coming towards me while in FPS mode only to have my PS2 say "sorry.. you're gonna lag a bit coming out of FPS mode.. then you have a recalibration period where you need to angle yourself and possibly your camera to get out of the... oh would ya look at that.. you just got smacked... lol"

Seriously.. I think if anyone needs a dodge move it's us PS2'ers... though in the casr of pc.. it would be a nice improvement.. wouldn't have to re-aim your gun every time you dodge a megid..

And to the one who said that's our only threat.. sorry.. you fail..

God only knows how hard it is for a good gunner to run in with a set of traps in hand facing s2 vandas solo/duo. it's not so bad in a party since usually there's a group keeping them occupied..
Damfoie-can't get the hell out of it half the time.
diga from off screen- "ouch.. WTF just took 1/5 of my life bar?"
Onma/dimma rock chuck- tough to avoid sometimes, and a last second dodge would work wonders here.
onma/dimma/ragan/nus land on you- "oh crap.. too close.." but if you're not that close, you get rocks tossed in your face.

And that's almost all coming from 1 mission.. Now.. if I was to mention -all- of the situations it'd be useful in. this would be a -very- long post.

The move isn't -needed- no.. but it would make things run smoother for most of us.. Also, it'd make the cheap moves some mobs have alot less cheap.
You can't sit there and tell me that 5 vandas alternating diga at you is a real exacmple of difficulty. It's merely a time waster. Sure, it stops me from just spamming a rifle from a single spot.. But I need to fire more than 1 bullet every 15 seconds to not take an hour and a half on a single mission.

No one says that making a game cheap makes it difficult. If you want a difficult MMO.. you're not going to find one.. they just aren't made to be difficult.
Any time you can have a party of more than 1 human player, tactics can come into play to make -anything- a cake walk.
You want difficult.. go play a 1 player game.. you want to build a character up, equip some fun weapons/skills, and beat up some baddies with friends you make online.. play an MMO/ORPG


On 2007-07-09 09:42, NIloklives wrote:
Niered...compare things like dus daggas, spinning break, assault crush, moubou something or other-zan, boga danga, and quite a few other PAs. the only variety in there are costs and DPS. but all in all they're almost as much the same move as the 6 bullets for one gun, but the 6 bullets you can validate changing up for various reasons. as a hunter you only need ONE of those. tornado break, renkai, dus robado, gravity dance: again same deal as before. they do pretty much the same thing spread between 4 weapons. only one is required. Buten shuren zan, rising crush, hishou blah blah zan, rising strike, spiral dance. basically the same move. as well and anga durega vs tornado dance? I think I've made my point.

rangers only press square, hunters for the most part only press triangle. but rangers at least have some variety in their bullets. and they have different weapons to use fo different situations. as a hunter I can get away with spaming dus daggas on most everything and then using spiral dance tolock down and quickly kill large things. and many people see me doing that and think I'm uber. sounds pretty 1 dimentional to me...

...WTF are you talking about? those skills are completely different from each other.
Daggas is for 2 or more enemies in front of you, spinning break is for enemies that are big and have 2 target points and you need mobility, or the enemy is in the air. Moubu is for facing a small mob of small enemies or 2 vharas. bogga danga is for the same thing as moubu yeah, bit it's also useful on larger opponents that are being locked down by another player. These can all be easily used in a boss battle since they do decent damage.

Yes, they target similar, but they all have different purposes.. just because you use them all the same way doesn't mean they don't have a varying scheme of useful-ness.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aralia on 2007-07-09 11:58 ]</font>

[Shardio]

It's funny seeing people posting their class isn't good enough. You want variety, you say? Switch classes a few times. Sure, it'll cost ya, but variety you WILL get. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif
Besides, the above posters are pretty much right: Any class in PSU is boring if you look at it that way.

[Niloklives]

Fail? sorry I have an 80/10 fG/GT I never get hit by any of that stuff. the only thing that ever gets me is a charging polavohra in a crowded area. if you have trouble Soloing or dualing a certain area...that's your shortcoming noth your class'

...but it's been said many times before:

THIS IS AN ONLINE MULTIPLAYER GAME! SOLOING IS A CHOICE YOU MAKE THAT CHANGES THE VERY DYNAMICS WHICH THE ONLINE EXPERIENCE IS BASED ON!

You can't say "It's difficult to survive as this because I choose to play the game in a manner it wasn't intended." and hope to come across as intelligent.

But here are some hints for you:

Traps are not the be all an end all. don't try to use them in places where it would endanger you especially against enemies you don't need to use traps on. Use traps on large enemies and groups of enemies that your guns can't be used to stick your SEs.

if the mobs are scattered, stand further back to try to get everything on the screen at once. that way there are so suprises.

FPS mode is not your friend at all times. don't use it if the enemies can easily swarm you or wander out of your scope.

bring a melee weapon or two. I know you're a ranger, but you wer given access to sabers for a reason. if something runs up on you, a well placed rising strike will get you the space you need to retreat effectively.

pick the right weapon at the right time. A group of vandas likely doesn't require the use of a rifle. rather you want to use a shotty or an Xbow to stick an SE or two on them then either keep them pinned down with nades or try to stay back and get them with a high DPS weapon.

RANGE: you're a RANGER. if a vanda tags you with DAMfoie, you have no one to blame but yourself. maximize the range with every gun you have. getting in close is a bad habit you likely developed as a hunter. fight that instinct and learn the limits of each of your weapon. Rifles and bows outrange just about every tech in the game. if you absolutely need breathing space, grab one of those and sit back safer from harm than everyone but the guy who just went for more traps.

Mobility: watch sophia's videos. they say it all.

If you still think it's hard to survive as a ranger class after all that, not even dodge roll could help you.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-09 11:51 ]</font>

[ChaosAngel92]

Ok, im back from the hell. So yeah, aparently dodging moves are quite popular among gunners. And i can agree too that a moving FPS wont going to solve the things.
And i keep asking myself, are we are other thing that a support class?

Yeah, at least me. Im not complaining about the damage that gunners do. Im playing with a lvl 59 "Gunslinger" (my way to refer me to the GT http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) and the damage i give with Ice art, and my grinded whole made by myself Deathmakers is awesome. Personally, im not very fan of other ranged weapons, why? because you just sit and shoot, and dodging is almost impossible. Wehn you want to do it you have already a Diga on your pretty face.

What im complaining, or most people is complaining is that gunners are quite pretty, well, "bored". I mean come on guys, people prefer Hunter because it moves a lot and do funny movements with the photon arts. Yeah they can be bad at soloing (ok, i do not know who posted this but, lol, i think that HU are the ones that can solo more than any other class) or bad at inflicting status effects. But you move a lot and you do, well, funny things that gives another way of gameplay with hunters.

Also one thing, and im talking of "expectation". WTF is this? Well, its more than less like this. When you create a new character, you go very happy to your store and you buy your favorite melee PA if you can afford it. Then you learn it, stick to your weapons and start playing. You just can wait to see what is the next combo. You need to and you keep playing with it because you want to see the next move, what it will happen etc etc etc.
Now here is the gunners example. You go to the store, and you buy you favorite element, or the one that is most recomended (yeah ice). You tick it to your weapons and you go start playing. But you know that, as the time passes the bullets aint going to change a bit. Yeah, Status Effects change, but how many people cares about this? Also, xbow and cards change at different levels, they have one more bullet, but these are support guns for other classes that thir main weapon is not a gun. The unique ranger weapon that changes at 11, 21, 31 i the shotgun. But, the visual is still the same, nothing new its just the same.

[ChaosAngel92]

On 2007-07-09 10:18, Rashiid wrote:
rangers had a past?



Yes they have, on PSO but they were more like fighgunners. It was a pretty good combo to instnt freeze with the SNOW QUEEN and kill them with your double saber. Yes, Rangers on PSO could use double sabers, not all, but they have some powerfull ones.

[Niloklives]

if you want flashy, don't pick a gunner class...if you want efficiency...then play a gunner.

[Niloklives]

On 2007-07-09 11:53, ChaosAngel92 wrote:

On 2007-07-09 10:18, Rashiid wrote:
rangers had a past?



Yes they have, on PSO but they were more like fighgunners. It was a pretty good combo to instnt freeze with the SNOW QUEEN and kill them with your double saber. Yes, Rangers on PSO could use double sabers, not all, but they have some powerfull ones.



the best they could use was stag cutlary. and even then no skilled ranger did that seriously. if you had a snow queen and a cure/freeze, you were a god. RAmarls even had techs at lvl 20 so they were good for buffs debuffs and ranged support. if you didn't have a snow queen you still had a few good rifles and a good set of mechs. they killed so fast and rarely missed...using anything else seemed like a joke compared to them.

fighgunners of today are more like the HUcasts and HUcaseals of PSU. just like WTs are SUPPOSED to be the HUmar and HUnewearls of PSU and GTs are the RAmarls/mars and fGs are the RAcasts/caseals.

[Aralia]

NIlok..
You're not the only lvl 80/10 GT/fG... I've been there done that obviously...

All the things you said just there... don't always help.

I'd have to say I'm one of the most effective gunners on the pc/ps2 servers.
The problem lies in the hardware for me. Adding a dodge move would make it more fair for those of us who go into bullet time the second 5 or more enemies come onto the map.

Also. I have melee weps, I'm a PT on that char as well meaning I have rising strike and a saber on me at all times. I use x-bows to silence a vanda, and a shotgun is suicide on them, believe me. the reload period after firing gets you smacked with diga, kthx.
I know traps are not end all be all, but when there's 4 vandas right next to each other... bam, confuse and they damfoie each other. pretty sweet since they themselves use lvl -4- burn.

Arguably, the missions are easier solo, since you don't have a dumbass melee'er running in and knocking the enemies our of that nice spot you coaxed them into. I.E. Vears.. I can't count how many times I've gotten a vear stuck on a wall only to have a melee run in, use a knock back pa, it spins killing the melee'er, then comes off the wall after me.

Range.. yes, it's nice.. but when a swarm of vandas are chasing you, you can't keep the range.. add in that THEY have ranged attacks it just sucks.

I only FPS with rifle, and it's only when I'm at a safe distance.. but while I'm focusing on one mob, the hunters might have sent a vanda off to my right out of my vision that's gonna diga me.

And of course.. mobility.. MY main weapon these days is a ****ing crossbow.. how much more mobile do I have to be huh?

believe me, I know how to solo.. but when it boils down to it, it's boring to have to take the same plan of attack -every- time you do a run. which, normally, isn't the only run you'll be doing.
That, and it's nice to abuse certain maps to get a bullet to 21 or 30 or w/e.

I said flat out, it's not needed, it only helps.

You still fail.

I fail to see why you're -SO- against adding something new to rangers.

look at AoI.. do we -NEED- anything that's in it? huh? PSU is fine on it's own right? by your logic.. we don't -need- AoI.. So I guess we shouldn't get it huh? =p
See.. we're all trying to discuss how it'd be "nice" to have this. we aren't expecting it.

Post your 2 cents.. if people agree, they agree, if they don't get on with your life and stop trying to convert people to your way of thinking! You're not the catholic church, you don't get that right!

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-09 11:51, ChaosAngel92 wrote:
the damage i give with Ice art, and my grinded whole made by myself Deathmakers is awesome. Personally, im not very fan of other ranged weapons, why? because you just sit and shoot, and dodging is almost impossible. Wehn you want to do it you have already a Diga on your pretty face.

What im complaining, or most people is complaining is that gunners are quite pretty, well, "bored".


You'd be bored out of your tree as a fighgunner too. Get Tornado Dance, max its level in a day, there's nothing left for someone who can't be bothered to use more than a single skill for a single piece of equipment because they're shy of the challenge.

BTW plenty of melee skills only have 1-hit or 2-hit combos. A few more of what's left have 3rd moves that you generally won't bother using.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-07-09 12:34 ]</font>

[Aralia]

TD is pretty useless though. Why even bother if you're only going to have 1 skill for Dbl saber, you might as well use spiral dance.
If you're gonna have 2, TD/GD
IF 3, then have all 3.

Of all PA's I use TD the least. It's easily replaced, and is barely worth the time.
Any other knock back/up PA does the job better unless you need to cover lot of ground fast.

[edit] Fighgunner is easily the least boring class..they have access to all melee weps except axe. Just because you don't get S rank in a wep doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. With the variety they get.. it's hard to be bored.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aralia on 2007-07-09 12:44 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-09 12:22, Aralia wrote:
I fail to see why you're -SO- against adding something new to rangers.


How about adding something to make Ranger's job HARDER instead, since it's cakewalk right now. Tasty and expensive cake, if you're doing it with any style, but cake none the less.

For starters, how about cutting guns PP capacity and regeneration rates by a factor of 3 and making photon charges cheaper... so you've got to hit your action palette to "reload" more frequently, and maybe make less-than-occasional use of the melee game mechanics that gunners never have to touch? Maybe crank up SE application rates to match, so pulling out a gun is really boss instead of spending forever picking away.

EDIT: I'm not saying anything about Fighgunner, I'm talking about the attitude of finding one thing that works sort of well and then NEVER USING ANYTHING ELSE. If you get busy switching between optimal skills and weapons on a gunner there's no monotony at all.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-07-09 13:05 ]</font>

[Aralia]

Why make it harder? I don't see a point.

Like I said before.. you're looking for a challenge? Play a 1 player game.

fG's don't get effective enough melee capabilities yet to make any sense of using them.
Once AoI rolls around I can guarentee I'll be using Dus Daggas more on my fG as well as rising strike.

As it stands here and now, fG/ FG/ fT/GT all are pretty much on even grounds. fF and in some ways PT/WT are the only ones that even remotely need any change to them. (Come the 13'th any fF with a frying pan will be on the same level as the other forte's) PT/WT need to be nerfed a little since PT has lvl 3/4 SE's out the ass. (traps, Bows, Frying pan)
And WT.. don't ask.. it's just too powerful in too many ways.. Most of the power of a fT with more HP than a FG, and the proficiency to use lvl 20 skills meaning nothing can corner them... I don't see why fG needs to be nerfed when WT is so obviously more powerful.

PP is fine on guns, I run out enough on the ones I use. You want lower PP? Play GT as though you were a fG and have fun with the higher PP cost.
You want to use melee as a gunner? well.. I got news for ya.. there's already a class like that called FighGunner.
Crank up the SE applications? it's called a trap. =p

Simply put, if that's how you feel, you shouldn't be playing fG since the other classes are what you're looking for.

Now.. if you're the type to -only- use rifles.. yes.. the pp is sick..

but about 20 grenade shots makes me need to reload.. that isn't even 1 drua gohra.
My x-bow runs out after 3-4 mobs, 2 if I'm using zagenga. (not our main wep.. but it's our most damaging weapon)
My twins last a while yeah, but that's a good thing.. why should I have to recharge a weapon every 5 seconds if I only use it occassionally to begin with. PLUS FighGunners and GunTechers are the ones who are meant to use these babies.. They have a higher PP cost for those classes.. cutting their PP would hurt everyone -BUT- ForteGunner.
Laser.. no one really uses this, some do.. but most don't bother cause it sucks unless you -make- it not suck. (this baby is reserved for mayalee.. which has a high PP cost..hmm.. gee.. that'd suck wouldn't it)
Rifle has lotsa pp yeah, but it also is our "sniper" weapon. Not meant to be exclusivly used... Take up a stance while your buddies are killing stuff, once you've DoT'd some enemies, run in a bit closer and use other weps. Rifle is not your best friend.. just a friend.
mech guns... these run out of pp fast too... plus again.. it's not a forte's main weapon.. it's meant for FG/GT again..
Shotgun too much PP.. yes.. I said it.. this and rifle are the only ones with too much pp.. but then again.. this is our main damage weapon.

Ideally.. Shotgun is the only weapon with too much PP.. and that's because it's supposed to be our main damage weapon.. I.O.W. you're supposed to use this weapon the most, it's high pp compensates for how much it's intended to be used.

If you do a run exclusivly using shotgun, you'll use about as many photon charges as a fT would using a rod.

Again.. just because something is spammed to oblivion, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. Simply stop using rifles/twins as much and use some other weps..

There's no need to make fG less powerful... if you're going to nerf fG, then nerf WT.. they have lvl 20 spells and level 20 PA's and eventually become just as broken as fG.

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-09 13:31, Aralia wrote:
Why make it harder? I don't see a point.


I don't see a point in changing the class AT ALL. I get along fine with my Fortegunner, it's certainly not boring. Yeah, level 21+ grenades or Killer Shot will have even Fortes popping charges all the time.

But this thread's not about me, it's about the single-weapon-spamming gunners who don't have to hit one too few buttons for their enjoyment. It sure as hell shouldn't be something making gunner EASIER to play, so why not keep the monkies busy by changing the role of guns so it's impossible to use them without some finesse?

If memory serves, I'm giving a decent description of how guns work in Extra Mode. They're stupidly effective (rifles serving knockdown, able to burn Kamatoze at SE2, etc) but only have the PP capacity of a melee weapon so they run out really fast.

[Niloklives]

how do -I- fail? you're the one who'd getting beat on as a fG..that's a nice switch you try to pull, but no...it doesn't work that way.

also if you read when I said correctly, you'd see I said that gunner classes don't need anything more than they already have. not that NO one needs anything.

WTs are awkward and underpowered. their nerfs come form the fac that they have to change modes to cast spells and their sub par stats. only PTs have lower atp than WTs as far as fighter classes go, and they(WTs) have lower skill limitations to the point that they can't even maximize their damage potential on the S rank weapons they have access to. how is that remotely reasonable? It's not so stop whining.

And rangers still get access to just attack and just cancel. just cancel moreso to be sure, but to be able to attack freely between sucessful blocks? man yeah how could a gunner make use of that? =/

you're so effective that diga pegs you in the side of the head. you say my methods don't work, yet I profess them out of experience that says otherwise...

if gunners get any more abilities they need to get nerfs somewhere. and if they got nerfed anywhere you same people complining now would start complaining about that instead...you want excitement, play a FG...play a FF, play a PT...hell take a cue from deja and play a cast FT..but as the most powerful class in the game you say you want more? that's just a little greedy don't you think?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-09 13:59 ]</font>

[Almighty_Envy]

On 2007-07-09 01:12, NIloklives wrote:

On 2007-07-09 01:08, Ryuugu-Rena wrote:

On 2007-07-09 01:04, Zorafim wrote:
You can do thousands of damage to enemies in a matter of seconds, completely ignoring their defenses. The bigger the enemy, the more harm you can cause it. All this outside of the enemy's attack radius.
You guys are fine.

What he said



Second'd/10...lol and I primarily play as a ranger class.



Nades + De Ragen = over 1k of damage each bullet.

[Aralia]

Only char I played offline was Ethan as a hunter. So I dunno..

But regardless.. the dodge would help everyone, not just single-wep-spammers.

It'd be a welcome addition. If only to bows even it'd be a great thing, since they have a longer shooting time, meaning a better chance of getting megid'd or worse..

Plus, at least the single-wep-spammers are using rifles.. meaning they're likely to cause a SE that'll help.

I got no problem with people only using 1 gun.. as long as it's effective, let them have their boring style.

As long as I'm making use of everything I get, idc what anyone else does. Same way I play all my characters..
If I can solo a mission, and I leave the party open, I expect things to go faster.. as long as the mission goes faster/smoother than when I solo, I'm happy with the team. (assuming no jackasses are in there.)

Also, if rifles didn't take so long to level, people wouldn't need to spam them as much. If you ever see me in a mission using nothing but a rifle, it's because I'm trying to level it. 9/10 of the time I do this solo though. =p

[Niloklives]

On 2007-07-09 13:46, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-07-09 13:31, Aralia wrote:
Why make it harder? I don't see a point.


I don't see a point in changing the class AT ALL. I get along fine with my Fortegunner, it's certainly not boring. Yeah, level 21+ grenades or Killer Shot will have even Fortes popping charges all the time.

But this thread's not about me, it's about the single-weapon-spamming gunners who don't have to hit one too few buttons for their enjoyment. It sure as hell shouldn't be something making gunner EASIER to play, so why not keep the monkies busy by changing the role of guns so it's impossible to use them without some finesse?

If memory serves, I'm giving a decent description of how guns work in Extra Mode. They're stupidly effective (rifles serving knockdown, able to burn Kamatoze at SE2, etc) but only have the PP capacity of a melee weapon so they run out really fast.



in extra mode you can run any mission with a single claw/pistol combo

[Aralia]

On 2007-07-09 13:47, NIloklives wrote:
how do -I- fail? you're the one who'd getting beat on as a fG..that's a nice switch you try to pull, but no...it doesn't work that way.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-09 13:48 ]</font>

Look in my sig please.. for the love of god..

And diga pegs me in the side of the head, yes.. when a friggin melee dumbass sends the vanda flying 67720734 meters, just over to my right when I'm far from the action DoT'ing things. (while I was trying to level my burn rifle. now that it's lvl 21, I'll be silencing the vandas with my yak diga kthx.)

say what you want about being so high and mighty. Like I said, I solo fine, it's when you add another person in there that makes the game slightly less predictable that you can get screwed over.

I have plenty of experience with each and every class. and believe me, the only 2 that are over powered are fG (cause of rifles) and WT (cause of spells)

The fact that you cannot see the obvious meaning in my post is where you fail. Idc about how big you can talk here.. Some footage of -you- playing and never taking a hit (as you say) would back things up. but right now you sound like a 12 year old trying to god mode in a text based roleplay. =p

My 3 lvl 80 characters speak for themselves, I play too much.. meaning I have more than enough experience to speak on the subject of overpowered-ness.
And so far, my WT can take on the same things my fT can at a lower level because of his higher HP/DFP.

And if you read one of my posts in this thread I mention that fG is on the same level as GT, FG, and fT. These classes are all broken, yet they're getting more additions in AoI (lvl 31 spells, fT.. S rank bows, GT.. lvl 30 bullets, FG..) Yet all fG is getting is lvl 40 bullets and lvl 20 skills. No new SE lvls (so far we know) no extra shots, no useful weps. (I'm sorry but any fG that uses a shadoog unless they are going raw melee with a saber or dagger is a noob. lvl 4 SE's or not.)

Essentially.. you're just being an ass at this point. =.=
Everyone is getting beefed up in AoI. Meanwhile, fG's are staying more or less at the same point. (a bit more %'s on our ranged weps aren't going to change things all that much.)
And just attack and just cancel are great for fG yes. they as well as lvl 20 skills will make melee'ing as a gunner an option rather than a self defense. Cause without 50% 9* spears/sabers, the time you're using those dinky lvl 10 skills could be much better spent DoT'ing things to cause 1k+ damage every second that you'll be doing 400 in. =p

[edit] and btw.. I am not complaining that fG -needs- oh so desperately to get this move, I'm just saying it sounds like a good idea.
Yes, I think fG is overpowered, but who cares? Honestly?
Why are you making it a personal crusade to convince everyone that they need to be nerf'd?
fG is fine as it is, blah blah blah. Yes, wonderful.. but a dodge ability would be -FUN- (oh mah gawd.. I said da "F" word didn't I?)
It's a game.. get over it.. it's supposed to be fun. adding another game mechanic to make a class more fun to play is a good thing whether the class is over powered or not.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aralia on 2007-07-09 14:20 ]</font>

[DEM_CIG]

i think rangers r fine the way they r... im a fightgunner i offen find myself using twin handguns then my double saber...

[Niloklives]

I've logged over 2500 hours in this game. I have two lvl 80s myself and have deleted characters over lvl 60 just cause I wanted a change. That said you could have 4 lvl 80s with every class maxed and still be a noob. I see people with IDs under 1k trying to sell vulcaline for 400k...offer up all the numbers you want, the fact that you're going to try to use some twisted and debunked sense of seniority in hopes I'll read that as "I know what I'm talking about" is laughable.

I'm on PS2, so I can't giveyou footage, but sophia has presented pleanty of footage to show you how it's done. btw rather than silencing vandas, try shocking them. it lasts longer and prevents them from doing anything but throw diga.

and if fGs are broken for rifles, GTs are broken for rifles. if WTs are broken for techs, what does that make FTs?

I'm not talking about using just cancel for melee either. but I'll let you figure out how to use it, explaining this to you is like talking to a wall.

the argument that many of us have been making is that as powerful fGs are, they have few shortcomings. you're here saying they need even fewer just so you don't feel ignored. call me an ass if you like. you sound like some emo brat whos biggest worries in life are that his parents didn't get him the new ipod for his birthday.

your shortcomings are not your class' shortcomings. don't confuse the two.

[Aralia]

On 2007-07-09 13:47, NIloklives wrote:
WTs are awkward and underpowered. their nerfs come form the fac that they have to change modes to cast spells and their sub par stats. only PTs have lower atp than WTs as far as fighter classes go, and they(WTs) have lower skill limitations to the point that they can't even maximize their damage potential on the S rank weapons they have access to. how is that remotely reasonable? It's not so stop whining.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-09 13:59 ]</font>
Different post because it's a different topic of discussion.

WT is overpowered. switching to a wand just to use resta or diga or w/e is not as bad as you make it sound.
ESPECIALLY if you use techs more than melee.
I'm not going to get into the reasons why they're overpowered here.. but go ask a WT and they'll tell you that the class is insanely powerful while everyone thinks it's gimped for some reason.

And no.. I know you didn't say "No one needs anything"
Your logic in fG not needing a dodge but us wanting one is the same as wanting new clothes. We don't need them, but we want them. Or even a FighGunner wanting a slicer... it's not needed, but they want it.

See.. that's why you fail man.. you can't see what I mean even though it's blatently stated right there on the page in front of you.

and since I don't feel like editing my other post.
If you just take a quick glance below at my sig, you'll see I have plenty of characters for when I want excitement.
And no thank you, I have 1 cast, who already has too many PA's that I don't want to over-ride.
Besides that, why bother re-doing fT when I already have a newman fT? =p

The dodge isn't for excitement, it's for usage. There are times when I see something and say.. "aw shit~ this is gonna hurt... fucking PS2 lag..." The dodge would allow me to get out of that situation.
Monsters move at the normal pace even when a PS2 goes bullet time.. however the character moves at half to 1/4 the pace. making it virtually impossible to get out of the way of some things.
And also, for not seeing this point.. you fail again.

[DEM_CIG]

*slicer*

[KidoKresh]

I really want to be able use 2 differents for my twin pistols like Ice & Dark so i can infect the monsters and freeze em at the same time.

[Aralia]

On 2007-07-09 14:29, NIloklives wrote:
I've logged over 2500 hours in this game. I have two lvl 80s myself and have deleted characters over lvl 60 just cause I wanted a change. That said you could have 4 lvl 80s with every class maxed and still be a noob. I see people with IDs under 1k trying to sell vulcaline for 400k...offer up all the numbers you want, the fact that you're going to try to use some twisted and debunked sense of seniority in hopes I'll read that as "I know what I'm talking about" is laughable.

I'm on PS2, so I can't giveyou footage, but sophia has presented pleanty of footage to show you how it's done. btw rather than silencing vandas, try shocking them. it lasts longer and prevents them from doing anything but throw diga.

and if fGs are broken for rifles, GTs are broken for rifles. if WTs are broken for techs, what does that make FTs?

I'm not talking about using just cancel for melee either. but I'll let you figure out how to use it, explaining this to you is like talking to a wall.

the argument that many of us have been making is that as powerful fGs are, they have few shortcomings. you're here saying they need even fewer just so you don't feel ignored. call me an ass if you like. you sound like some emo brat whos biggest worries in life are that his parents didn't get him the new ipod for his birthday.

your shortcomings are not your class' shortcomings. don't confuse the two.

Emo brat.. haha.. funny one.
But no.. see.. here's why this whole thing started.. and the primary reason why you fail.

Yes.. fG is over powered.
The only thing I agree with you on.
But there are times when a fG is in a situation where they are not able to get out of. You want a game based on skill? this allows it, if you're not skilled enough to use the dodge in time or dodge the right way, you'll still get hit.
and again.. this is to be bolded so that you'll see it without being a dumbass and ignoring the fact entirely.
We merely would like this,Not NEED

Go take your automatic assumptions elsewhere and idolize sophia on youtube or something. You're obviously more of a wall than I am.

I've modified my playstyle as a fG numerous times to adapt to the new things we got, new ideas opened up to me, and other reasons that I don't need to explain here.

Give up. You're arguing all the wrong reasons and calling me names for nothing other than that I point out that you fail to recognize WHY we could appreciate this 1 little addition to the class.

My shortcomings are not the classes no. and I'll admit, if the PS2 was faster, and I actually was to watch the map more than rely on the actual world it's portraying, I'd probably never get hit. but yknow what. That 1 fucking diga "beating on me" isn't worth the extra energy devoted to focusing on everything around me. rather than just 9/10 of it.

And btw, nice assumption on my personality..
I'm a frickin rocker not an emo.
I earn what I get.
I don't ask my parents for shyt other than usage of the washing machine, electricity, the room I live in, and dinner once in a while.
I'm 19 so it's kinda hard to move out without fucking up my college life.
and to TOP it all off.. my family is dirt fucking poor for a NJ family. =O

And you say I'm a wall that fails. Just what exactly are you then?


[edit] and no.. I don't "hope you'll read it as 'I know what I'm talking about'..."
I present it as evidence that I -DO- know what I'm talking about. You have 2500 hours.. that's nice.. I have 3k+ easily.
my ID is in the 5k's, I been playing since launch, modifying my play-style the whole way. and you? what have you done? What makes you so great that you're one to talk huh?
Don't compare me to noobs, it's just sad.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aralia on 2007-07-09 14:52 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

asking for clothes is not game breaking. Slicers are already in game and don't enhance a FGs game enough to turn many heads... asking for a move that would make you nigh invincible can't be equated with that. that's why YOU fail.

this isn't about fun, or you feeling neglected. this is about BALANCE. I made my points about the other classes because you seem to think something as simple as one weapon or another is what makes all the difference. it's not so simple, though it contributes. This move you want so much that would make the class more engaging for you is NOT an asthetic enhancement. it's a dramatic change in combat dynamics and would make what is alreasy an overpowered class MORE overpowered.

Do you understand the difference? if dodge roll cost you some crazy amount of PP, didn't have any moments of invulnerability, and recovered slowly, one might be able to pitch it as an addition to the game to give you the flash you want. SOMETHING TO BALANCE THE MOVE. but an instant roll like what the rogues and soldiers get is TOO useful for a player character in this game. so if you wanna pitch a dodge roll, start talking about how to balance it rather than just saying you want to be able to roll. then we can discuss it.


EDIT: Addendum-

I said it already, those numbers mean nothing. what makes me so great? Nothing at all...I don't need to prove myself to you to know for myself. I'm validated by my own knowledge and my ability to see beyond the specturm of asthetics while still having fun. You're the one who evidently plays this game more than me but gets tagged by diga while my HP meter stays at at constant 100%.

Also, sophia and I rarely see eye to eye on anything. but I respect her ability to play the game. I worship no one. my point was simply that since I can't show you, there are videos out there that you can watch that will.

Again: you're defending a want when I'm saying it would break the game. you're entitled to wanting it, but you have to be able to admit it would make the class more powerful than it already is. find a way to balance it and we can talk about it. right now you're just daydreaming and coming across as shortsighted.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-09 15:01 ]</font>

[Aralia]

FUCK the balance.. We're not getting the god damn fucking dodge.. That's why YOU fail.

Ugh.. y'know.. this isn't even worth arguing over.. it's a friggin idea. Never gonna happen, but it's something fun to imagine. go play with your numbers.. analyze stats and take the game so seriously that your brain implodes..

I'm not saying we SHOULD get this OMG I CANT LIVE WITHOUT IT !!!11!!!

I'm saying it would be a fun thing if they added it.. nothing more nothing less. At this point, I dn't even care what the OP's idea was.

I said flat out several times that I know fG is overpowered. that I know this would only add to that fact.

God forbid I have an opinion about something right? this is only the internet.. the place where 14 year olds like you determine what everyone else's opinions are.

I AGREE FOR FUCKS SAKE.. ITS OVERPOWERED... BUT IT'D BE -FUN-

maybe I think being overpowerd is fun, you ever think of that?
NO. I'm sure you didn't..
I'm not neglected, my family gave me a rich childhood. Just cause you're a spoiled little kid who places no value on material items doesn't mean everyone else is so fucking envious of you.

All I ever did was state the fact that you failed to recognize that these posts are OPINIONS.

[all caps in this post were to stress a point, not intended to be read as yelling.]

[edit] I like day dreaming. >.>
And to clearify, I've agreed on the fact that it was overpowered since my first post. I don't need to come up with a way to balance it.. it wasn't even my idea in the first place, it was the OP's. I merely stepped in when you started attacking neired.

But of course.. you'd just have been happy had I said. "Oh.. you're right.. it's too overpowered.. I'll stop thinking all together and let you dictate what I determine to be fun."

yes.. all my posts were merely driven by the factor known as fun. I couldn't have cared about the balance any less if it was trimmed in gold and being handed out by (insert random hot actress here) while she laid naked on her back spread eagle letting anyone smecks her up.
See.. that's the reason you fail. you can't see that it's merely an idea.
All you needed to say was "It's too broken, sorry.. it wouldn't work" and nothing more. let us dreamers dream, and be done with it. but no.. you're trolling the idea non-stop until this kind of argument occurred. Thank you for the entertainment, but it's time to settle this once once for all.

It's broken, we want it, we're never getting it even though it'd be a fun addition. we're over it... and.. it's done.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aralia on 2007-07-09 15:10 ]</font>

[DEM_CIG]

that would be fun... i guess i would not be strifing anymore.

[Niloklives]

lmao I'm 14 now? wow ok. I'm older than most people who play this game. I was around when atari 2600 was the only console on the market. I STILL OWN ET, KANGAROO and JOUST.

If you agree why be so defensive? that was the first time you said it would be too much rather than just say "I want it" I also said you're entitled to your daydreams and opinions, but if you want to discuss them, you need to let them be open to criticsim and realize not everyone is going to join you in swooning over them.

I'm not a numbers fiend by any way shape or form. but I know my way around this game. most people who know me will attest to that. and those that don't...don't know me. I'm completely open to discussing this with you but you have to understand I'm going to play the voice of reason here. I don't get off on daydreams.

But if you admit that this want of yours would be game breaking I see no point in continuing this. enjoy your "what if"


Also...to clarify Niered and i usually get pretty heated in these kinds of topics, but I have nothing against the man. if you were doing this just to defend your buddy, while that was admirable, it was unnecessary. I'm not the trolling kind. I just play the heavy handed voice of reason in a lot of topics. it doesn't win me any points, but I'm not worried about that.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-09 15:16 ]</font>

[Aralia]

Also the whole attack thing on my playstyle added to it.
I don't know neired nor do I honestly care to. I was doing it as a member of the community and someone who shared a similar interest in this. I simply stepped in when I saw that you posts got to be violent looking.

You automatically made it seem like I was the suckiest fG just cause I get hit with diga. (a ranged attack)
So I had to defend my honor there. =p
Keeping 100% hp doesn't mean you're skilled, I seen plenty of people use terrain to keep the enemy far enough away that they were clear and a rifle with burn could take them down easy.

And btw. you might wanna look at your SE's better. Shock doesn't stop a vanda from using damfoie.
Diga/Damfoie are the only things a vanda does that are deadly. their basic attack hits for crap damage and they rarely use it. Essentially... Silencing them is a wiser choice.

And yes.. Atari2600, I have one sitting just to the left of my TV. 26 games in the case with it if I remember correctly. That was the system I started on, at the end of it's market days. I been playing games since I was 2, yes.. I fully understood what the goal of them was.. they were simple back then after all. And ET just sucked lol so many people will agree on that opinion. =p

regardless, this whole thing was brought about from 1. people saying a fun idea would be fun. (disregarding balance you have to admit, it'd be fun to kneel down in the desert, pull out your rifle, fire a few shots and when a diga starts looming over you, dodge it.. then resume firing your rifle without having to re-activate FPS mode)
and 2. because you made an attack on anyone who gets hit with a stray diga while they're concetrating on DoT'ing, essentially labeling a slip up as them being a noob. =p

[Tita]

if you're pulling your weight as a ranger for max damage, you're not solely pew pewing your heart out. this is a fortegunner:

On 2007-07-09 08:59, panzer_unit wrote:
[quote]
I find I work pretty hard as a Fortegunner... taking care of traps, keeping a maximum number of targets immobilized with mayalee prism or grenade launcher, going for multi-hits with shotgun, lining up marks for laser cannon, teamkilling my squad (or trying to avoid it) with killer shot in a room full of robots... some Rising Strike to fill holes in defensive SE coverage... with all the tactical target/weapon/SE selection and positioning there's very little time to care that all my attacks are coming off of square instead of triangle.

this is not:
"omg pew pewing is so boring but everything else is too hard and gimpy for me, wah wah wah"

its funny: i tend to find the dumbest and smartest players playing this class.

...
i'm all for gunners being able to use their rifle as a melee weapon. no PAs for it or anything, just be able to whack something with it. there, that's your triangle. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Niloklives]

I said getting hit by diga was your fault, not that you suck.

FYI shock does stop a vanda's damfoie because it's not actually damfoie, but an attack similar to damfoie. the fact that you can block it should offer evidence to that. I've shocked vandas in the middle of this attack and it cancels the damfoie outright. it also makes it easier for hunters to melee them which by all rights should keep diga from being flinged your way.

But i'm not hostile until people try to make me out to be someone who just got the game yesterday. if your play style works for you, I can't very well tell you to do otherwise. but if you're saying you're having trouble in an area, I'll offer what help I can. I've gotten to the point where I don't try to sugar coat what I say or beat around the bush. I'm aware that it makes me come across as somewhat demeaning at times, but people who get to know me come to find I'm pretty cool.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-09 16:03 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

Trivia: as hitting someone with a pistol is called 'pistol whipping', smacking someone with the butt of a rifle known as 'butt-stroking' ... I think it sounds dirty on purpose. Anyway that would liven up the key display.

... Butt-stroke /
Burning Shot []

[Niloklives]

that would liven up many a conversation.

"lmao dude did you see me butt stroke that kamatose"

"xD I think he liked it"

"o.o he wasn't the only one"

"x.X"

"^.^;"

[Medic]

Well... i personally think not getting blown to bits and standing on the sidelines pumping lead into little monsters guts is alot better than just mashing x and using dimates. thats my opinion.

[Niloklives]

que?

[Siertes]

On 2007-07-09 16:02, NIloklives wrote:

FYI shock does stop a vanda's damfoie because it's not actually damfoie, but an attack similar to damfoie.

[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-09 16:03 ]


What crazy Vanda are you fighting? I just shocked a few vanda only a minute ago and they were still spitting fire in my face.

[Puppet_Papaya]

I'm a Fortegunner and I love it. The way I see it, melee classes use multiple types of melee weapons differently, so I use my multiple types of guns in different ways. For example my favorite weapon, the shotgun. I can use this from a distance to shoot at multiple enimies or get in close to deal several shots to a single enemy, consentrating the same ammount of damage that would normally be divided up between the multiple enemies.
Besides that there's positioning to consider. Nothing beats moving into the perfect position and getting that nice clean shot.
The grenade launcher is my second favorite weapon purley for it's ability to heard enemies and the positioning possibilities that creates.
I like playing a ranger class because it allows me to get creative in my attack patterns. There are so many more possibilites if you just think about your movement instead of simply shooting blindly forward at any enemy.

[Jife_Jifremok]

Rangers seem incredibly boring if all you do is stand in some spot with a rifle and pluck away with that ultra-powerful SE4 burn or virus. Is it any wonder I hate rifles so much? My level 22 burning shot and level 16-or-17 dark shot should be grateful they still remain in my PA list even though I never have rifles on my palette anymore.

Ranger has great variety due to the fact that most guns play significantly different from one another, and in some cases the frag PA damn near turns a gun into a whole 'nother weapon. Yeah, Mayalee Prism turns theordinarily useless laser cannon into a nice poking stick for pushing things. Grenades get a nice knockdown effect and take a small amountt of finesse to use...Boma Maga has a freeze effect that can also be useful and requires even more finesse.

Pistols, machineguns and crossbows get to pair up with sabers or daggers for a little extra oomph, although the pistol's rarely worth using (as a FoG) due to the ATP. I still find that fun though, especially when it's time to double-hit stuff with Mayalee Hit.

That being said, a little more variety still wouldn't hurt, especially if there's something done to rebalance things. I'd be all for being able to alter the trajectory of grenades to make them even more fun to use, having a dodge roll and manual block (for EVERYONE) but with lower DFP and/or EVP to make you need to use it to avoid dying (especially if it helps in reducing the amount of cheap deaths). I wouldn't mind rangers being able to pistol whip or butt stroke enemies, and it might even be fun to combo a pistol whip into Rising Strike or something. Again, this is about FUN, not stats.

[Niloklives]

On 2007-07-09 20:51, Siertes wrote:

On 2007-07-09 16:02, NIloklives wrote:

FYI shock does stop a vanda's damfoie because it's not actually damfoie, but an attack similar to damfoie.

[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-09 16:03 ]


What crazy Vanda are you fighting? I just shocked a few vanda only a minute ago and they were still spitting fire in my face.



dunno, but it's always worked for me...

[Akaimizu]

Doesn't work for me. The only thing I've seen shock stop is actual physical swinging attacks from any of those Vanda/Vahra/etc class monsters. Any and all their other stuff I've seen them use even while shocked. I don't rely on shock to stop the fire, the only thing I do is back away and hope that their great tracking and *further than visual* hitbox of the move doesn't still hit me. It does occassionally. There are times in which from the moment they start the move (if you're the target) it's a guarranteed land on you, even if you start running the moment you hear them activate it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-07-10 01:14 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

weird...I'll have to check again.

I've heard there are some differences in attack patterns and the like going from PS2 to PC. I wonder if that's the case here too. the last time I fought vandas was FB though...something my have been switched up during that time too...I'll check next time I sign on. also what lvl shock are you guys inflicting?

[Akaimizu]

SE3, generally. I apply shock with Crossbows, of which I currently got them at 30.

[Niloklives]

yeah I use xbows too....hmm....well i'll try to get back to you guys on this tomorrow...I don't have a problem admitting I'm wrong, but I know I've canceled damfoie from them with shock and they didn't recast it til after shock wore off...multiple times....could be a lot of reasons for that though now that I think about it. ah well...guess well find out tomorrow. x.X

[LTrav2k]

I'd like rangers to be able to attach a magazine slot of sort to some weapons. Kind of like the PAs, but the status effect would be more constant I guess.

i.e. a stun bullet which deals minimal damage, yet guarantees a stun SE which lasts for one second.

I think that would make good use of the second attack button for rangers, so they could pick and choose a bit more when developing their strategy... moreso when they are having to deal with bullet resistant mobs.

[DreamLocke]

As a GT, I don't find the class boring at all. I'm far more mobile than my melee character is.

On top of the great things panzer mentioned; traps, SE's, shotgun management, prism, rising strike, and elemental advantages, GT's also heal and keep things buffed/ debuffed. One button, yeah, but a lot of things are going on with that button.

Every ranged weapon has its own tactical use and it's not about all "pew pew" till things die. If you're playing that way, switch to a melee class. If things ever get too boring for me, I just switch to my WT for a while and when I come back to my main, it's all fresh again.

[Akaimizu]

Well considering with GTs their weapon selection is all about specific tactical use if you want to make the most out of them. In fact, because there's so many situations that render various GT weapons lowly while giving them the option of a specific weapon, it's a tactical class all around. Quite a few tactics are specific to exactly, in what way they aid the group, at a given time.

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2007-07-09 11:54, NIloklives wrote:
if you want flashy, don't pick a gunner class...if you want efficiency...then play a gunner.



My thoughts exactly.

Overpowering the game > Flashy Variety

Though Mayalee Fury is probably more fun to use than any hunter skill out there. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[beatrixkiddo]

This thread is lol. "RANGER IS TOO EASY BUT GIVE US SOME MORE BUTTONS TO PUSH FOR MORE ADVANTAGES"

[Medic]

a good idea would be actual grenades for rangers. instead of shooting them throwing them with a shotgun still equipped. and different kinds (of course elements) but odd status effects like goo on the ground that makes it so they cant move(bad idea but just throwing it out there)

[Shiro_Ryuu]

One thing I've been thinking is if guns did their own damage, and base ATP having no impact on the damage done by the gun. That way, it would rely only on ATA. I don't know, one more thing I pulled from my ass. I know its not real life, but yeah. >.>

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-07-23 09:42, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2007-07-09 11:54, NIloklives wrote:
if you want flashy, don't pick a gunner class...if you want efficiency...then play a gunner.



My thoughts exactly.

Overpowering the game > Flashy Variety

Though Mayalee Fury is probably more fun to use than any hunter skill out there. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Believe me. Gunners DO have flash and variety. All you have to do is stop relying so damn much on rifles and you'll find out just how much fun being a gunner can be. Elemental grenades, Boma Maga, shotguns and crossbows, the occasional Mayalee Hit and laser cannon shot (especially of the Mayalee variety), sabers mixing in with crossbows or handguns. Status effects? Just use traps and/or party with someone who's got dark shot or some kinda burn4 loaded up. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[panzer_unit]

... maybe guns could rely on ATP to equip, to reflect hauling a heavy firearm around, and dealing with recoil. Character ATA would be added to weapon ATP to represent hitting more vital spots with fixed-damage bullets.

... it's kinda silly that gun damage is determined by whoever can pull the trigger hardest.

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-07-23 12:25, panzer_unit wrote:
... maybe guns could rely on ATP to equip, to reflect hauling a heavy firearm around, and dealing with recoil. Character ATA would be added to weapon ATP to represent hitting more vital spots with fixed-damage bullets.

... it's kinda silly that gun damage is determined by whoever can pull the trigger hardest.



You do realize how much more complcated and sensible this is, right? It's WAAAAY beyond the standard RPG formula, and thus probably does not appeal to the devs. <_< (but believe me, I would LOVE this idea.)

[Serephim]

Ill slap any ranger who complains about his class abilities while during firebreak my strongest Melee PA's were doing 1/4 the damage while these Fortegunners walk in and completely lay the place to waste like with Twin Handguns in a HUGE fraction of the time.

If anyone should get a makeover, its Fortefighters. There are points in this game where it just plain sucks to be us.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-07-23 12:35 ]</font>

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2007-07-23 12:31, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

On 2007-07-23 12:25, panzer_unit wrote:
... maybe guns could rely on ATP to equip, to reflect hauling a heavy firearm around, and dealing with recoil. Character ATA would be added to weapon ATP to represent hitting more vital spots with fixed-damage bullets.

... it's kinda silly that gun damage is determined by whoever can pull the trigger hardest.



You do realize how much more complcated and sensible this is, right? It's WAAAAY beyond the standard RPG formula, and thus probably does not appeal to the devs. <_< (but believe me, I would LOVE this idea.)



This would also change the races performance as gunners. Either way I don't care.
Beast Gunner ATP is overrated anyway, My Nova can put their total output damage to shame usually.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2007-07-23 12:43 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-23 12:42, Sexy_Raine wrote:
This would also change the races performance as gunners. Either way I don't care.
Beast Gunner ATP is overrated anyway, My Nova can put their total output damage to shame usually.


Casts and high-level (caught up w/ weapon equip requirements) Newmans would be the strongest gunners, and gunning would be a poor endgame choice for Beasts ... maybe on par with Cast Fortetecher? Fighgunner and Protranser strategies would play differently depending on race as well.

[ShineOnline]

It's not all "pew pew". fGs have access to sabers and spears, and GTs have sabers and wands, and all rangers have some access to traps. If you just go "pew pew", it's by choice.

I have one particular weapon in mind that would make rangers really fun to play....

Scorpion's Harpoon... "GET OVER HERE!!!!"

[Wallin]

I was under the impression from other posts that rangers were actually one of the best solo classes, is that wrong?

[Sekani]

I still don't understand why you can't equip two PAs to a gun instead of just one. The main reason I don't use Twin Mayalee on my fighgunner is because I don't feel that it's worth a full palette spot.

Besides, I really don't see how it's game breaking to be able to equip a rifle and fire Dark Shot with one button and Burn Shot with another.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2007-07-23 13:28, panzer_unit wrote:

On 2007-07-23 12:42, Sexy_Raine wrote:
This would also change the races performance as gunners. Either way I don't care.
Beast Gunner ATP is overrated anyway, My Nova can put their total output damage to shame usually.


Casts and high-level (caught up w/ weapon equip requirements) Newmans would be the strongest gunners, and gunning would be a poor endgame choice for Beasts ... maybe on par with Cast Fortetecher? Fighgunner and Protranser strategies would play differently depending on race as well.
sa


Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Beasts INTENDED to be the worst Gunners? I mean, they were given the lowest ATA. Like CASTs are the best Rangers, and since they're robots, it limits their magic abilities, making them the worst Forces. Newmans are the best Forces, and since they focus more on metnal training and not enough on physical[stereotype], that makes them the worst Hunters. Beasts are the best Hunters, and since they are the fighter race, they have too much samurai or warrior pride and honor to use guns[stereotype again], making them the worst Rangers. Makes sense in my book, and CASTs should be the best gunners.

[APEXi]

as the game goes on, fortegunners will continue to grow stonger; what with the higher level the enemy, the more damage done through SE's.. there's is nothing that needs fixing/nerfing on forteguns - if you endure the curve levelling up bullets and your character, you should get the payoff.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Apexi, Rangers should be nerfed for the exact reason you gave, because they get stronger as the game goes on. I know its a co-op game, but I don't want to get yelled at or booted from games for being a Fighter, which I am simply for my love for swords and melee fighting, and not for stats and number crunching. And I don't want Gunners to get booted if they play how they like and do anything other than SE 4 Fire or Dark rifle and DoT.

[APEXi]

nothing needs nerfing, equip a hard / power charge if you feel your damage is inadequate

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Rangers can do the same too. Either way, Hunters should be doing more damage than Rangers since damage is their job, and come on, I'll never even get an A rank unit, so yeah.

[APEXi]

just another way to look at it - hunters will have access to the most s-rank weapons. AND - those rangers you see doing all that SE damage probably spent more time raising that single bullet than a typical hunter does on all their skills linked to whatever they have equipped on their palette. -EXAMPLE- my first character, apexi(pc) took about the same amount of time to level renkai, daggas, gravity dance/spiral dance to 21 as it took either of my forteguns to get frozen shot 30

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Well, at least you'll eventually get those level 21 bullets, many of us Hunters will never even GET an S rank board, let alone an S rank weapon.

[pikachief]

On 2007-07-09 01:04, Zorafim wrote:
You can do thousands of damage to enemies in a matter of seconds, completely ignoring their defenses. The bigger the enemy, the more harm you can cause it. All this outside of the enemy's attack radius.
You guys are fine.



sure i usually do way more damage than anyone else in my party but bieng a gunner is BORING!! T_T

[Lyrix]

then go be a hunter and do less damage from within arms reach of the enemy XD

[DEM_CIG]

[/quote]

sure i usually do way more damage than anyone else in my party but bieng a gunner is BORING!! T_T

[/quote]
its not that boring... i enjoy being a pt and gt its fun to say back and shot.

[DikkyRay]

Eh...
Some skill pa's would be cool, not just elemental abilities.
Like for rifle a "super shot" (god what an awful name) kinda like a hard attack from PSO, does ALOT more dmg, higher lvls=bigger bullet=assload of more dmg.
You get the point...

[Tekknight]

I didn't read all of the replies but I've felt strongly since day one... Whenever a type that uses traps is using a weapon that does not utilize the "Photon Art" button, the ability to "Detonate" all set traps should appear. To make this work, traps should NOT disappear when you witch weapons and the '5 set traps at a time' limit should be in play. I don't think this idea has any flaws in it.

[ChaosAngel92]

Well, since this topic was replied again. i must incist. speacial evade movements for rangers!

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I still keep to my opinion that things need to become harder and more difficult for Rangers and at the same time, give them more flashy and cool looking stuff to take the place of that easiness. Maybe have their ATP and HP reduced or something. Or they can make more big, multi-targeted enemies, and make them both bullet resistent AND unable to get burned or infected, give them Go Vahra speed, long range attacks, put such enemies in every single mission in the game, and put them in large numbers.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-07-24 05:08, Shiroryuu wrote:
I still keep to my opinion that things need to become harder and more difficult for Rangers and at the same time, give them more flashy and cool looking stuff to take the place of that easiness. Maybe have their ATP and HP reduced or something.


Already done. You described the Guntecher right there. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif


On 2007-07-24 05:08, Shiroryuu wrote:
Or they can make more big, multi-targeted enemies, and make them both bullet resistent AND unable to get burned or infected, give them Go Vahra speed, long range attacks, put such enemies in every single mission in the game, and put them in large numbers.

But that means ranger classes might get a big heads that they're the best players in the game, because they can survive as them. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-07-24 07:23 ]</font>

[Esufer]

On 2007-07-24 05:08, Shiroryuu wrote:
I still keep to my opinion that things need to become harder and more difficult for Rangers and at the same time, give them more flashy and cool looking stuff to take the place of that easiness. Maybe have their ATP and HP reduced or something. Or they can make more big, multi-targeted enemies, and make them both bullet resistent AND unable to get burned or infected, give them Go Vahra speed, long range attacks, put such enemies in every single mission in the game, and put them in large numbers.


You forgot Megid.

They need to shoot Megid.

[Akaimizu]

Megid? Who needs Megid if they can simply shoot a long range technique that hits for 1 1/2 times their health or better. Those are quite a bit better than Megid.

[APEXi]

On 2007-07-24 05:08, Shiroryuu wrote:
I still keep to my opinion that things need to become harder and more difficult for Rangers and at the same time, give them more flashy and cool looking stuff to take the place of that easiness. Maybe have their ATP and HP reduced or something. Or they can make more big, multi-targeted enemies, and make them both bullet resistent AND unable to get burned or infected, give them Go Vahra speed, long range attacks, put such enemies in every single mission in the game, and put them in large numbers.



at first i thought maybe you'd make a point, but after that i think everyone should disregard anything you say

[Esufer]

On 2007-07-24 07:26, Akaimizu wrote:
Megid? Who needs Megid if they can simply shoot a long range technique that hits for 1 1/2 times their health or better. Those are quite a bit better than Megid.


Megid makes you die.

[Akaimizu]

Megid has a lower chance of making you die that those other techniques. If I had a choice, to live, between a High Speed Foie that does 2000+ and a Megid ball. I'd take the Megid Ball. That lowers your chances of being 1-hit killed, because it isn't guarranteed upon successful impact. I'm no stranger to that scenario. There are now things that make Megid look like old news.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-07-24 07:44 ]</font>

[Esufer]

I'M RIGHT GODDAMNIT!
I'M RIGHT!

*stamps feet*

Besides, I'm a cast.

If it's not Physical, I'm going down.

[Akaimizu]

I'm human. If it's either, I'm going down.

[panzer_unit]

I'm on PS2. It doesn't matter if I go down.

[APEXi]

On 2007-07-24 07:47, panzer_unit wrote:
I'm on PS2. It doesn't matter if I go down.



lol pc/ps2... all that haxeta AND deaths dont even count anymore.

[panzer_unit]

bitter, much?

EDIT: as if this thread has enough whinging about classes. Yeah lets bitch about platforms too lol.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2007-07-24 07:57 ]</font>

[Niloklives]

On 2007-07-23 12:25, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

On 2007-07-23 09:42, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2007-07-09 11:54, NIloklives wrote:
if you want flashy, don't pick a gunner class...if you want efficiency...then play a gunner.



My thoughts exactly.

Overpowering the game > Flashy Variety

Though Mayalee Fury is probably more fun to use than any hunter skill out there. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



Believe me. Gunners DO have flash and variety. All you have to do is stop relying so damn much on rifles and you'll find out just how much fun being a gunner can be. Elemental grenades, Boma Maga, shotguns and crossbows, the occasional Mayalee Hit and laser cannon shot (especially of the Mayalee variety), sabers mixing in with crossbows or handguns. Status effects? Just use traps and/or party with someone who's got dark shot or some kinda burn4 loaded up. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

if you read anything else I said, i quite clearly stated that rangers have more variety than any other class in the game. but variety is not synonymous with flashy. flashy is hittting and enemy 8 times in one spot then leaping into the air and flipping forward sending the enemy flyying across the screen. flashy is flying forward parallel to the ground and spinning (ala psycho crusher) and sending things flying in every direction then landing on your feet in a sliding fashion for several seconds before standing up. FLASHY is slamming your entire mass along with your weapn into an enemy and causes them to fly along the ground into a roll then leaping after them plunging your weapon into their doby while they lay helpless then fliping your weapon out of the ground and fliging the enemy again.

Flashy is not a single solitary boom.

variety hoever is very much having a list of weapons each with their own specific abilities and very unique purposes for various situations.

I have never said "rangers are great...I love rifles.../end" thanks.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-07-24 08:18 ]</font>

[APEXi]

the thing i like most about rangers is how you can have one rifle/shotgun/whatever - but it's really like have more than just that one, because you can equip various bullets - whereas hunters (when i was one anyway) would have to run to and fro from their room to restock weapons depending on what mission they were going to be doing. same can be said for techers.. ya ya

[amtalx]

On 2007-07-24 07:41, Akaimizu wrote:

Megid has a lower chance of making you die that those other techniques. If I had a choice, to live, between a High Speed Foie that does 2000+ and a Megid ball. I'd take the Megid Ball. That lowers your chances of being 1-hit killed, because it isn't guarranteed upon successful impact. I'm no stranger to that scenario. There are now things that make Megid look like old news.



You need better armor. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[DEM_CIG]

On 2007-07-24 08:22, APEXi wrote:
the thing i like most about rangers is how you can have one rifle/shotgun/whatever - but it's really like have more than just that one, because you can equip various bullets - whereas hunters (when i was one anyway) would have to run to and fro from their room to restock weapons depending on what mission they were going to be doing. same can be said for techers.. ya ya


Justfor that reason i like being a gunner... cause i dont have to equip different weapon to be efective i can just switch my bullets and use them when ever i want...

[Niloklives]

oh...as a followup, from before. during firbreak, shocking vandas I know for a fact prevented their Damfoie or flat out stopped it. but running desert terror S2 the other day it didn't do the same thing. not sure how or whyit worked back then but doesn;t now, but clearly that strategy no longer works, so i take back that statement, my apologies. I maintain though that getting hit as a gunner denotes a lack of skill. heck I get hit too...it's not like I'm trying to say I'm better than anyone. but I'm also not so full of pride as to say it's not my fault when it happens.