Has there been ANY mention of correcting the framerate issue [Archive]

Fredrick

Jul 10, 2007, 02:27 PM

On 2007-07-10 12:24, Serephim wrote:
If they dont fix this, the game wont be much better for me.

The slowdown is mother fucking retarded for a console game, it makes no sense.

They either need to add Frameskip or lower the overall refresh rate for the game, becuase its HORRIBLE. it ruins gameplay completely when it takes me 5 seconds to cast a spell that should only take 1.

Exactly! I'm am a total PSO / RPG crack whore, and I haven't even bothered to get the game because I was so frustrated with the Demo.

When I heard the worst areas aren't even in the Demo, I just didn't even bother picking it up.

Serephim

Jul 10, 2007, 02:46 PM

God, your lucky you diddnt play Firebreak then, because effing hell the mission would be tons easier to S-rank if you diddnt lose a whole 4 miniutes to moving in slow motion.

Niloklives

Jul 10, 2007, 02:57 PM

yeah I had that happen a lot on moatoob and urgent orders. it was rediculous

Tykwa

Jul 10, 2007, 03:00 PM

My 360 barely slows down
(except for a few select areas)
Or having 5 people in a party using some super awesome PA that lights up the screen theres not much of an issue for me
but, with a game that looks so bad why does it slow down, if you look at games like GoW it never slows down
But, it could be a problem of putting japan> into USA format or somthing that made it slow down

A2K

Jul 10, 2007, 03:17 PM

Please do try to stay on topic.

I think we'd all be happier without slowdown, but it's never bothered me that much on the Xbox 360 version.

[ This Message was edited by: A2K on 2007-07-10 13:18 ]

amtalx

Jul 10, 2007, 03:21 PM

Sonic Team knows how to design fun games...thats it. The development side of things is completely lost on them, QA as well. I don't think it will get fixed because ST sucks at coding. There is no excuse for a game like PSU to have slowdown on a hardware as powerful as a 360. I if I can destroy a $300k car in Forza 2 at 60fps I should be able to swing a sword at more than 20fps in PSU.

landman

Jul 10, 2007, 03:27 PM

It shouldn't even slow down, it's a PS2 game in a 360 -.-

I am pessimistic, with new graphical effects we will provably get more slowdowns if it is possible...

ThEoRy

Jul 10, 2007, 05:21 PM

On 2007-07-10 13:21, amtalx wrote:
Sonic Team knows how to design fun games...thats it. The development side of things is completely lost on them, QA as well. I don't think it will get fixed because ST sucks at coding. There is no excuse for a game like PSU to have slowdown on a hardware as powerful as a 360. I if I can destroy a $300k car in Forza 2 at 60fps I should be able to swing a sword at more than 20fps in PSU.

el oh fucking el.
can't stop laughing.
but seriously Amtalx.
I don't think I've ever even seen you swing a sword! lol

Parn

Jul 10, 2007, 05:27 PM

On 2007-07-10 13:21, amtalx wrote:
There is no excuse for a game like PSU to have slowdown on a hardware as powerful as a 360.
Actually, there is. It's called porting the PC version at the last minute and putting it on 360. The game relies too heavily on the CPU just like Final Fantasy XI did, all because the core game engine revolves around the PS2 hardware. The game wasn't designed with the 360 in mind from ground up, so it's not an issue of their competence in coding, it's an issue of whether the management is willing to devote money to fund such a thing.

People like to oversimplify how game development works and just throw around "Developer X doesn't know how to code", but that's not how it is at all.

Dragwind

Jul 10, 2007, 05:32 PM

On 2007-07-10 15:27, Parn wrote:

On 2007-07-10 13:21, amtalx wrote:
There is no excuse for a game like PSU to have slowdown on a hardware as powerful as a 360.
Actually, there is. It's called porting the PC version at the last minute and putting it on 360. The game relies too heavily on the CPU just like Final Fantasy XI did, all because the core game engine revolves around the PS2 hardware. The game wasn't designed with the 360 in mind from ground up, so it's not an issue of their competence in coding, it's an issue of whether the management is willing to devote money to fund such a thing.

People like to oversimplify how game development works and just throw around "Developer X doesn't know how to code", but that's not how it is at all.

That is true, but it really boils down to funding in the end, as you can see. Either way, blame funding.

Foxix

Jul 10, 2007, 05:35 PM

On 2007-07-10 15:27, Parn wrote:

On 2007-07-10 13:21, amtalx wrote:
There is no excuse for a game like PSU to have slowdown on a hardware as powerful as a 360.
Actually, there is. It's called porting the PC version at the last minute and putting it on 360. The game relies too heavily on the CPU just like Final Fantasy XI did, all because the core game engine revolves around the PS2 hardware. The game wasn't designed with the 360 in mind from ground up, so it's not an issue of their competence in coding, it's an issue of whether the management is willing to devote money to fund such a thing.

People like to oversimplify how game development works and just throw around "Developer X doesn't know how to code", but that's not how it is at all.

Care to explain why a game designed for the PS2 runs so poorly on the system it was built from the ground up for?

Almighty_Envy

Jul 10, 2007, 05:47 PM

I had massive slowdown on Urgent Orders.

Parn

Jul 10, 2007, 05:50 PM

On 2007-07-10 15:35, Foxix wrote:
Care to explain why a game designed for the PS2 runs so poorly on the system it was built from the ground up for?
Because the game was designed with the hard drive in mind before Sony officially pulled the plug on support. It's much more feasible to adapt your code than it is to scrap it when you have a deadline and money's involved.

Sekani

Jul 10, 2007, 06:12 PM

On 2007-07-10 15:27, Parn wrote:

On 2007-07-10 13:21, amtalx wrote:
There is no excuse for a game like PSU to have slowdown on a hardware as powerful as a 360.
Actually, there is. It's called porting the PC version at the last minute and putting it on 360. The game relies too heavily on the CPU just like Final Fantasy XI did, all because the core game engine revolves around the PS2 hardware. The game wasn't designed with the 360 in mind from ground up, so it's not an issue of their competence in coding, it's an issue of whether the management is willing to devote money to fund such a thing.

People like to oversimplify how game development works and just throw around "Developer X doesn't know how to code", but that's not how it is at all.

I'm not gonna pretend to understand the reasoning, but in this era of video gaming, ports or not, framerate and slowdown issues of this magnitude should be inexcusable.

CelestialBlade

Jul 10, 2007, 06:13 PM

Jul 10, 2007, 06:26 PM

On 2007-07-10 16:12, Sekani wrote:
I'm not gonna pretend to understand the reasoning, but in this era of video gaming, ports or not, framerate and slowdown issues of this magnitude should be inexcusable.

Then why have you played this game for so long?

Serephim

Jul 10, 2007, 07:33 PM

On 2007-07-10 15:50, Parn wrote:

On 2007-07-10 15:35, Foxix wrote:
Care to explain why a game designed for the PS2 runs so poorly on the system it was built from the ground up for?
Because the game was designed with the hard drive in mind before Sony officially pulled the plug on support. It's much more feasible to adapt your code than it is to scrap it when you have a deadline and money's involved.

Red flag, ignorance detected.

A harddrive has absolutely NOTHING to do with slowdown or slow loading times.

Like ive said, the reason for the slowdown is because Sonic Team SUCKS at making games now. The Load times on this game relate closely to the load times on Sonic the Hedgehog 360/ps3 - Also known as the WORST platformer to ever be released to the public since Superman 64. Sonic Team isnt the sonic team that made Sonic Adventure 2 or PSO anymore. Their standards have dropped entirely. PSU actully is the best game they've done since, but even this game has unexceptable problems.

The slowdown needs to definately be addressed, as it DOES make this game unplayable in a sense. It wastes time (No matter how bad your lagging the clock still ticks perfectly, so you lose mission time for unfair reasons), and makes it extremely hard to even hit some enemys in big parties when they die before you get a hit off.

We need to send a letter to them making SURE they deal with this problem. There's no reason it should exist.

[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-07-10 17:34 ]

Niloklives

Jul 10, 2007, 07:39 PM

the slowdown is based on video memory and processing speed. in fact 90% of the game's technical problems are rooted in memory issues. A lot of it could be solved with frameskip as it would prevent some of the issues with memory dumps...but we can only hope ST pulls their heads out of their asses to fix these problems.

The fact that timed missions become nearly impossible to finish at times due to slowdown to such extreme degrees is rediculous. I have to point my camera downwards at times to even keep up with my teammates when running to the next room.

It's not alwasy the case, but it happnes often enough that I get frustrated just thinking about it

Sekani

Jul 10, 2007, 07:49 PM

On 2007-07-10 16:26, PJ wrote:

On 2007-07-10 16:12, Sekani wrote:
I'm not gonna pretend to understand the reasoning, but in this era of video gaming, ports or not, framerate and slowdown issues of this magnitude should be inexcusable.

Then why have you played this game for so long?

Because I just like to talk tough and not back it up with any action. That's what message boards are for.

Niloklives

Jul 10, 2007, 07:54 PM

On 2007-07-10 17:49, Sekani wrote:

On 2007-07-10 16:26, PJ wrote:

On 2007-07-10 16:12, Sekani wrote:
I'm not gonna pretend to understand the reasoning, but in this era of video gaming, ports or not, framerate and slowdown issues of this magnitude should be inexcusable.

Then why have you played this game for so long?

Because I just like to talk tough and not back it up with any action. That's what message boards are for.

own'd

Sekani

Jul 10, 2007, 07:55 PM

On 2007-07-10 17:33, Serephim wrote:
Red flag, ignorance detected.

A harddrive has absolutely NOTHING to do with slowdown or slow loading times.

You can access data much faster from a harddrive than from a game disc. The end result would be less time spent at loading screens and less lag when switching weapons, among other possible improvements. It wouldn't be a panacea for everything, but it's incorrect to say that it does "absolutely NOTHING."

Niloklives

Jul 10, 2007, 08:08 PM

well...technically...you're both wrong.

the HDD can only help if the bus speed and seek time on the drive are fast enough. generally speaking with HDDs that's never a problem, as even an ata100 5400rpm standard would be faster than say a 4x DVD rom...but if the expansion bay bus that Sony developed or bought for the PS2 were slower than the DVD rom bus...then we'd be faced with different issues. seeing as how the HDD CAN be used to play games from (thoughI've never done this my self to say what the loading time was like) It's safe to say the HDD in the very least wouldn't hurt. installing data to the HDD while still readong from the disk would at least allow for the PS2 to read frm two places at once to lower read times. Still there's processor and system bus speed to consider too so it's hard to say exactly how it would impact overall performace without exact specs.

of course there's also coding to be considered as poorly writen code and bad compression also impact loading time.

a lot of this is just memory issues across the board. there a few step taht COULD be taken to alliviate these issues...but I doubt they could be prevented completely. at this point I'd just like something resembling consistancy when it comes to load times. I'll run a mission and never have the slightest bit of wait time between switcing weapon types...then have moments where it takes 10 to 15 seconds. and the general slowdown has been rehashed enough times that I'll just leave it at that

KidoKresh

Jul 10, 2007, 08:53 PM

The only time my 360 slows down is when a bunch of monsters spawn at the same time or everyone uses a PA at the same time.

ThEoRy

Jul 10, 2007, 09:12 PM

On 2007-07-10 16:26, PJ wrote:

On 2007-07-10 16:12, Sekani wrote:
I'm not gonna pretend to understand the reasoning, but in this era of video gaming, ports or not, framerate and slowdown issues of this magnitude should be inexcusable.

Then why have you played this game for so long?

He did say SHOULD be inexcusable. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Parn

Jul 10, 2007, 09:59 PM

On 2007-07-10 17:33, Serephim wrote:
Red flag, ignorance detected.
Thanks for the unwarranted attack. Right back at you.

For starters, this game has the slow-as-hell DVD-ROM drive that's streaming and decompressing ADX audio files on the fly, loading map data as you move, AND trying to load in weapon data for every player who swaps weapons. The very fact that you think the game being installed on a hard drive wouldn't improve load times is downright crazy.

Turn the music off on the PS2 version of the game and watch how much faster the game runs. The DVD-ROM drive is a huge bottleneck for the game. But hey, if you refuse to believe me and want to fall back on "SONIC TEAM'S JUST A BUNCH OF RETARDS", then be my guest.

[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2007-07-10 20:00 ]

beatrixkiddo

Jul 11, 2007, 12:43 AM

On 2007-07-10 17:33, Serephim wrote:

On 2007-07-10 15:50, Parn wrote:

On 2007-07-10 15:35, Foxix wrote:
Care to explain why a game designed for the PS2 runs so poorly on the system it was built from the ground up for?
Because the game was designed with the hard drive in mind before Sony officially pulled the plug on support. It's much more feasible to adapt your code than it is to scrap it when you have a deadline and money's involved.

Red flag, ignorance detected.

A harddrive has absolutely NOTHING to do with slowdown or slow loading times.

Like ive said, the reason for the slowdown is because Sonic Team SUCKS at making games now. The Load times on this game relate closely to the load times on Sonic the Hedgehog 360/ps3 - Also known as the WORST platformer to ever be released to the public since Superman 64. Sonic Team isnt the sonic team that made Sonic Adventure 2 or PSO anymore. Their standards have dropped entirely. PSU actully is the best game they've done since, but even this game has unexceptable problems.

The slowdown needs to definately be addressed, as it DOES make this game unplayable in a sense. It wastes time (No matter how bad your lagging the clock still ticks perfectly, so you lose mission time for unfair reasons), and makes it extremely hard to even hit some enemys in big parties when they die before you get a hit off.

We need to send a letter to them making SURE they deal with this problem. There's no reason it should exist.

[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-07-10 17:34 ]

If everyone on the 360 lags, shouldn't you have no problem keeping up with your party? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Serephim

Jul 11, 2007, 02:33 AM

On 2007-07-10 19:59, Parn wrote:

On 2007-07-10 17:33, Serephim wrote:
Red flag, ignorance detected.
Thanks for the unwarranted attack. Right back at you.

For starters, this game has the slow-as-hell DVD-ROM drive that's streaming and decompressing ADX audio files on the fly, loading map data as you move, AND trying to load in weapon data for every player who swaps weapons. The very fact that you think the game being installed on a hard drive wouldn't improve load times is downright crazy.

Turn the music off on the PS2 version of the game and watch how much faster the game runs. The DVD-ROM drive is a huge bottleneck for the game. But hey, if you refuse to believe me and want to fall back on "SONIC TEAM'S JUST A BUNCH OF RETARDS", then be my guest.

[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2007-07-10 20:00 ]

First off, if you think me calling you ignorant is an attack, then you need to look up the defination.

Second, anyone, and i mean ANYONE who's played any console game that was actully GOOD should know this is NOT a ps2 hardware problem. Shadow of the Collosus is a PERFECT example. do we get horrible slowdown on that game? Hell no, and that game is 10x more straining on the PS2 than PSU ever will be.

This is a case of bad programming and nothing more. I shouldnt have to fucking turn off my music or sound for a game to run correctly on a frigging CONSOLE SYSTEM, thats just asinine to comphrehend.

This was just a horrible problem to let happen. Im about 100% sure the PS2 is capable of running this game correctly. I mean hell, badly programmed Frameskip would be TONS better than the Sharigian Matrix Bullet-time slowdown we get anytime more than 5 enemies are on the fucking screen. If the PS2 can run Resident Evil 4 with absolutely no lag or slowdown, then why the HELL does this game lag so much?

Its not a Harddrive problem, and its not the disc drive. Each are perfectly capable of loading everything in time. Im also not sure why the Sound effects and weapons load as slow as they do, but im sure thats bad programming/ disc placement as well. The weapons sounds and animations shouldnt take up that much memory to where you cant load them in time.

The load times and slowdown make this game feel more like a Beta test than anything, and im going to be EXTREMELY fucking dissapointed if we dont get a simple Autoframeskip in AoI. If you dont fix the load times on the weapons and sounds, at LEAST fix the goddammed gameplay-destroying slowdown. Theres no reason a game like this should try to push a constant 60 fps anyway.

Niloklives

Jul 11, 2007, 03:05 AM

On 2007-07-10 22:43, beatrixkiddo wrote:

On 2007-07-10 17:33, Serephim wrote:

On 2007-07-10 15:50, Parn wrote:

On 2007-07-10 15:35, Foxix wrote:
Care to explain why a game designed for the PS2 runs so poorly on the system it was built from the ground up for?
Because the game was designed with the hard drive in mind before Sony officially pulled the plug on support. It's much more feasible to adapt your code than it is to scrap it when you have a deadline and money's involved.

Red flag, ignorance detected.

A harddrive has absolutely NOTHING to do with slowdown or slow loading times.

Like ive said, the reason for the slowdown is because Sonic Team SUCKS at making games now. The Load times on this game relate closely to the load times on Sonic the Hedgehog 360/ps3 - Also known as the WORST platformer to ever be released to the public since Superman 64. Sonic Team isnt the sonic team that made Sonic Adventure 2 or PSO anymore. Their standards have dropped entirely. PSU actully is the best game they've done since, but even this game has unexceptable problems.

The slowdown needs to definately be addressed, as it DOES make this game unplayable in a sense. It wastes time (No matter how bad your lagging the clock still ticks perfectly, so you lose mission time for unfair reasons), and makes it extremely hard to even hit some enemys in big parties when they die before you get a hit off.

We need to send a letter to them making SURE they deal with this problem. There's no reason it should exist.

[ This Message was edited by: Serephim on 2007-07-10 17:34 ]

If everyone on the 360 lags, shouldn't you have no problem keeping up with your party? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

It never occurs at the same time...

F-Gattaca

Jul 11, 2007, 03:47 AM

Something that'd be nice for PSU is a floating frameskip, whatever the technical term is for it. I'd like to be able to keep a decent FPS when I can, but have the game automatically skip frames when things get too slow.

I'm somewhat sure that there are games which do this; either having a "max frameskip" setting or "target fps" setting. Either would be nice to have.

It might also be just me, but ... Has anyone noticed that frameskips tend to also skip commands? Sometimes I could swear that input gets dropped at times due to frameskip ... which would go hand in hand with the slowdown affecting your realtime performance. Bullet time is all good fun, but when people reguarly zoom ahead of you while you're still pretending to be Neo dodging bullets in an empty room, it can be a turnoff.

(Suffice to say, that happened a lot in Urgent Orders. Yeesh.)

Sgt_Shligger

Jul 11, 2007, 04:05 AM

On 2007-07-11 00:33, Serephim wrote:

On 2007-07-10 19:59, Parn wrote:

On 2007-07-10 17:33, Serephim wrote:
Red flag, ignorance detected.
Thanks for the unwarranted attack. Right back at you.

For starters, this game has the slow-as-hell DVD-ROM drive that's streaming and decompressing ADX audio files on the fly, loading map data as you move, AND trying to load in weapon data for every player who swaps weapons. The very fact that you think the game being installed on a hard drive wouldn't improve load times is downright crazy.

Turn the music off on the PS2 version of the game and watch how much faster the game runs. The DVD-ROM drive is a huge bottleneck for the game. But hey, if you refuse to believe me and want to fall back on "SONIC TEAM'S JUST A BUNCH OF RETARDS", then be my guest.

[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2007-07-10 20:00 ]

First off, if you think me calling you ignorant is an attack, then you need to look up the defination.

Second, anyone, and i mean ANYONE who's played any console game that was actully GOOD should know this is NOT a ps2 hardware problem. Shadow of the Collosus is a PERFECT example. do we get horrible slowdown on that game? Hell no, and that game is 10x more straining on the PS2 than PSU ever will be.

Its not a Harddrive problem, and its not the disc drive. Each are perfectly capable of loading everything in time. Im also not sure why the Sound effects and weapons load as slow as they do, but im sure thats bad programming/ disc placement as well. The weapons sounds and animations shouldnt take up that much memory to where you cant load them in time.

You forgot something. PSU goes online.

Multiple character have to be managed. Not only your own, but up to five other players are switching weapons, making sounds, moving around and all that. . .

Also, you realize, though SoC graphics are excellent, the game doesn't push 30 frames a second. . . It does around 15-20, usually lower.

Parn

Jul 11, 2007, 05:59 AM

On 2007-07-11 00:33, Serephim wrote:
First off, if you think me calling you ignorant is an attack, then you need to look up the defination.
Come on now. Take the statement away and your argument remains the same. What purpose did it serve if it wasn't an attack?

At any rate, I give up. It won't matter what I say to you, because you've convinced yourself that a hard drive wouldn't make a lick of difference in performance and that Sonic Team's just a bunch of retards, so I'll leave you to your incessant bitching.

amtalx

Jul 11, 2007, 06:13 AM

On 2007-07-10 15:21, Octagon wrote:

el oh fucking el.
can't stop laughing.
but seriously Amtalx.
I don't think I've ever even seen you swing a sword! lol

Haha, so true. I had NEVER equipped a melee weapon in a mission until about 650 hours into my character. I picked up Xbows a little while ago so now I have Rising Strike.

Serephim

Jul 11, 2007, 12:02 PM

On 2007-07-11 03:59, Parn wrote:

On 2007-07-11 00:33, Serephim wrote:
First off, if you think me calling you ignorant is an attack, then you need to look up the defination.
Come on now. Take the statement away and your argument remains the same. What purpose did it serve if it wasn't an attack?

At any rate, I give up. It won't matter what I say to you, because you've convinced yourself that a hard drive wouldn't make a lick of difference in performance and that Sonic Team's just a bunch of retards, so I'll leave you to your incessant bitching.

Sonic Advance 2
Sonic Advance 3
Sonic Heroes
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog 360/PS3

....need i go any further? If Shadow the Hedgehog wasnt indication enough to know that Sonic Team was run by a bunch of fucking retards, then i dont know what is. Sonic the Hedgehog was the worst game ive played in the last 2 years, and THATS saying something.

And no, a harddrive wouldnt make any difference. And if it did, it would be such a small one it would require research to prove. This game just suffers bad programming, the slow weapon/spell/animation loading is just fucking sad, there's no game ive ever played with such a problem...

..Except for Sonic the Hedgehog, which had HORRIBLE animations, the worst movement system imaginable, and up to 3-4 MINIUTE LOADING TIMES on cutscenes that may only last 3 or 4 seconds. Then you have to load for another 3 or 4 miniutes.

I dont know if they've just forgotten how to correctly program shit or what. There's no excuse like "You dont know what ur talking about game development isnt that easy". For a First Party development team of SEGA, problems like this should be just dishonorable.

Not like im saying they havent done anything RIGHT in this game. They've done plenty right. They just left such huge problems behind that they should have simply delayed the game another 2 weeks to fix.

Kietrinia

Jul 11, 2007, 12:17 PM

The programmers don't always have a choice when it comes to releasing the game or cleaning it up a bit for a couple more weeks. The people who pay them are the ones who decide when a game comes out. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Kent

Jul 11, 2007, 12:42 PM

While I do agree, that there are huge flaws in the way PSU was built, I'm not stupid enough to think it's just because Sonic Team is a bunch of morons.

Of course, I'm not specifically stating that they aren't, but rather, that it's not as big of a deal as one can get their panties into a knot thinking it is.

The vast majority of game-breaking bugs and glitches stem from producers/publishers wanting to get the game out the door, to sell it, to make some of their investment back. Some companies are very lenient about this, in that they want to keep the game in development, to release the highest-quality product they can, such as Nintendo.

...Sega pretty much stopped being one of those companies, after they went third-party. When you spend time developing for multiple platforms, you don't have as much time or money to polish the game and remove all its bugs. As some of you may recall, there are a good few companies (like SOE) that make two more bugs for every problem they fix - imagine how bad that must be when trying to make something like this for three platforms.

As for slowdown on the 360, yes, it's because the system is badly emulating a game that wasn't exactly efficient in the first place, and then bumping up the resolution. All things considered, the system fares pretty well at that... But fares much better when a game is at least partially developed with that system in mind (a good example would be The Darkness - it runs quite well, but it was built with the 360 in mind, from the beginning).

Another good example would be to compare Sonic the Hedgehog (360/PS3) and Sonic and the Secret Rings. Two games by Sonic Team, and which one is seen as resoundingly superior? The one that was made for a single platform... And no doubt, Sonic Team's forces were stretched pretty thin, during development.

...

Basically, the game would've been a whole lot better-made, if they were making it for one system. If they had all of the same graphical quality, but had made the game only for the 360 from the get-go, I can guarantee you that it wouldn't see any slowdown, anywhere - the amount apparent with the current game, is simply due to the fact that it's taking the instructions designed for another platform, and having to translate them to work for the 360.