A Rebellion I Say!

[AlexCraig]

I have been in my Boy Scout Troop for pretty much all my life. I was in Cub Scouts when I was a kid. Now, as a 19 year old adult, I am an Assistant Scoutmaster in my troop.

When I was younger, I was an idol scout. I earned a lot of badges and did a lot of fun things, such as lead my friends deep into the catacombs of a cave. The adults praised me for being Instructor, a role which allowed me to train younger boys so that they can acquire higher ranks.

At 18, things shifted. Either I was just no longer the idol scout, or as an adult you get less respect. In any case, the adults shun me and scold me. I have lost my value and become nothing more than a larger hassle for them.

I think the first sign that I had become an outcast in my troop was when I was in Canada for a High Adventure trip at Boundary Waters. We were in a swamp and stuck. The first canoe, which had our scoutmaster's wife, our guide, and our strongest scout, was out in the middle of a lake on its way to an island for camp. I was stuck in the swamp behind them along with 2/3 of our crew. After a while, I used an SOS whistle to call them back for help. Yet when I whistled, they only looked back and kept moving, leaving us behind.

The second time I noticed they dispised me was when we got back from that trip and our scoutmaster told myself and one of my friends to apologize to our guide, who injured herself while carrying a backpack. He said she was hurt while carrying a canoe, and my friend and I never carried canoes (We couldn't as we had poor upper body strength). He kept pestering us 10 minutes at a time to apologize, until the point where my friend broke into tears. I mentioned this to the other leaders, and they sided with me. Later that day, he told me to carry a canoe, knowing fully well that I cannot, to the holding place. Even later that evening, he made an announcement to the troop:
"I am glad you all had fun this week. I know you all worked hard, I even heard Alex and ***** carried the heaviest packs in their crew"

That SOB was covering his ass!

In recent days, he has been ordering me to do things other than be with my friends. Saying things like "You are no longer 'one of the guys'". He has been nothing more than a pest to me. Even today, he called a meeting saying that we are not acting like scouts. Well, duh! Things are not as fun as they were! Scouts are losing interest!

So, I have recently made an underground rebellion in my troop. We are going to expose the faults of the troop to the parents of the boys and end this madness (Before anyone asks, he does things like this to all the older boys).

So there you have it. I may have more later, but for now this is my rant.

[WrathOfMegid]

Hmmm, I suggest caution. You say he treats all the older kids like this, in other words, like crap? I suggest recorded information. Times, dates, and as full of a written and affidavited account as you can get. Otherwise, you're just a bunch of rowdy kids with a grudge.

I don't mean post that stuff here in a "pic or didn't happen" scenario. I mean keep records as evidence to use and cite in your expose (pronounced eks-poh-zay).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: WrathOfMegid on 2007-07-12 10:33 ]</font>

[AlexCraig]

Yeah, I know. I have been using my digital camera to take vids every once in a while. I intend to get accounts from the boys to get their POV on the situation. I have one account already (or if you count the ones from yesterday, 3 or so).

[Sord]

you already know my view on this http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

ok, seriously though. You're on the right track with video and documentations. The stuff even does loads in the courts. I would know, my mom won custudy of me through it, and is now battling for child insurance for my little half brothers. It really helps. I'm just glad you are actually doing something about this instead of just sitting around and complaining like the majority of the people in the world do. Good luck.

[AlexCraig]

That is my view on things. Two other members here (With and Shergon) are also in my troop. I am sure they could add a few things to this.

[Shergon]

yup

[DurakkenX]

if you really want to see some action, present your documents and such, and make sure they are only copies. THEN add onto it "if this person is not removed or dealt with in a manner that we accept we will be prosecuting for emotional damages" of course i don't know all the circumstances and i'm sure you need something else to add onto the emotional damages to make it a valid case, but hey it should help ya...

Of course i have to add that i do not have a license to practice law or give law advice so if you do follow this advice i can not be held accountable...

Basically, this will help push your case as cub scouts and groups like that do not want to have major negative press which a court case would do so you most likely would win out...

[DikkyRay]

i wish i was in boyscouts.
Been in it since cub, dropped out at boyscouts because another boy was REALLY threatening me.

[AlexCraig]

I don't really want to go to court. As tempting as it is, I think that just exposing all of the accumulating evidence of said cruel actions to the parents of the other scouts would be enough. I agree that I should have copies of all of this and present it to him. Blackmail. Basically tell him to cut it out or quit, or I will present the material to the parents. Them seeing this, and not wanting their children to suffer this, pull their kids from scouts. Thus the troop diminishes until no scouts are left in my troop. No boys means no troop, nor any need for a scoutmaster.

[Shergon]

In the troop the adults say it is boy runed ,but it is the adults that run it

[AlexCraig]

Yeah. They say that the boys run the show, but the adults restrict us so much that it is more or less ruled by them and not the scouts.

[Shergon]

The adults are making some of the boys quit or go to an another troop. The adults are blameing us for the condition of the troop.

[AlexCraig]

Isn't that what they were talking about last night? That's what I got from it.

[Shergon]

Every time they talk I day dream or ignore them because almost every thing they say is not important.

[Shergon]

Every time they talk I day dream or ignore them because almost every thing they say is not important.

[Thalui89]

Heh sounds like the b*st**d's at my college and former school. I say rise up and rebel! You need to ensure that your place as an adult is a firm one and that your not just going to be pushed down by people of higher authority. Whilst i wouldnt advise this in a workplace sometimes the higher powers need to feel the earth once in a while. Go for it!

[AlexCraig]

Well, aside from myself, there are about 4-5 other people in my little rebellion, including Shergon and With. That is about half the troop and almost all of the older scouts.

[CupOfCoffee]

I'm gonna go ahead and throw it out there that I find the idea of using blackmail to repair the Boy Scouts a pretty hilarious idea. Strangely, I can't figure out why.

[AlexCraig]

Either it is crazy or effective. In any case, that is the gist of my plan.

[Allos]

Granted, the guy may be an asshole, but come on...you're 19. Stop the whole rebellion/blackmail deal. It doesn't really reflect very well on your age or your position as assistant scout master. Just talk to the guy or leave the troop.

[AlexCraig]

I have tried talking in the past. So have many of the scouts. But he is stubborn as a mule. He would establish himself as "higher up" and I am left with nothing. As for leaving, no. I love doing things in scouts. I love the campouts and the activities that we do. If I leave, not only will I miss out, but my friends would quit since I won't be there. Without the older scouts, no one will be there to teach the young ones. They will eventually leave due to boredom. Thus, the troop is ended.
My goal is not to end the troop, but to make it more fun for the boys. More activities. I don't care if I am 19 and he is in his forties. That is not the discussion here. My actions reflect not just me, but the voice of the entire troop. The scouts want fun, so I am trying to help them. If he intends to pull the old "I am older, I am wiser" crap on me, let him. I will show him damning evidence of his faults and THEN we will see who is wiser.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlexCraig on 2007-07-12 18:37 ]</font>

[zentetsua]

i say don't get pushed any further keep your plan running smoothly. i've been under my dad's thumb for 20 yrs. and don't like it. so continue by all means.

[ABDUR101]

You know, you're 19; you could just grow up and move on. I doubt the scouts have much more to offer you as an "adult". There are no more knots to be taught. Really, the scouts served their purpose in your life I'm sure, but if you're having an issue and getting flack, and honestly have the time to put together evidence against a scout master...what a waste of time, effort and energy on your part. That could all be going toward school/college or a job.

Oh; and your tone..very unbefitting of a boyscout. Really, who will teach the younger scouts? Are you DAFT? The fucking scoutmaster! And you like going camping and shit, and if you leave your friends will leave. Oh my, lets never consider going camping...outside of the boyscouts!

Really, all it sounds like is you're trying to start shit and drama when it's unnecessary. Grow up and move on.

[AlexCraig]

On 2007-07-12 21:14, ABDUR101 wrote:
You know, you're 19; you could just grow up and move on. I doubt the scouts have much more to offer you as an "adult". There are no more knots to be taught. Really, the scouts served their purpose in your life I'm sure, but if you're having an issue and getting flack, and honestly have the time to put together evidence against a scout master...what a waste of time, effort and energy on your part. That could all be going toward school/college or a job.

Oh; and your tone..very unbefitting of a boyscout. Really, who will teach the younger scouts? Are you DAFT? The fucking scoutmaster! And you like going camping and shit, and if you leave your friends will leave. Oh my, lets never consider going camping...outside of the boyscouts!

Really, all it sounds like is you're trying to start shit and drama when it's unnecessary. Grow up and move on.


1.) I choose to stay in scouts because I like it. Just the same as someone who likes their job sticks with it. I am getting a job and will be going to college after a year of work. And while I may have no real purpose left in scouting, I am relied on to teach the new boys since we no longer have an Instructor.
2.) My tone may not be fitting for a scout, but as a man who is pissed off it is spot on. There are 12 points to the scout law, and nowhere in it does it say "A scout has no right to be angry". Besides, I am no longer a scout. Once I became 18, I was considered too old to be a scout.
3.) Like I said, if I leave, my friends will leave. They are who are supposed to be teaching the younger boys. The scoutmaster does not teach the boys, older scouts do. He merely quizzes them. And he is too busy with too many other things to worry about teaching each individual scout.
4.) I don't get to camp every time I damn well feel. Maybe you have that kind of time, but I don't.
5.) Shit and drama my ass. You have no fucking clue what goes on in our troop. I hear every time I go to one of those pathetic excuses called meetings scouts saying "I'm bored", "This isn't fun", and let's not forget "Fucking scoutmaster". I deal with this crap every week I go. And every week I go, I get more evidence that the scoutmaster is ruining our troop. Before you say I am starting shit, try reading what I say.

[DurakkenX]

the problem here is not him v.v Let's say your kid was under a "scout leader" like the guy he is describing, wouldn't you want to know? While I agree that being in cub scouts at 19 is a bit much I can not say that what the guy is doing is right and what alex is doing is just staying with something he likes which is perfectly fine, there is no "age limit" for things unlike what people wish to make you believe.

Also blackmailing is not what i am suggesting... I am saying to present it to the appropriate people and if those do not listen take it further along the chain of authority and tell them that you will take it further. The telling of the parents should be done before that and more than likely will be willing to help you formulate a better presentation if they care at all. you must allow someone to correct themselves before you force them to correct it for if you simply force them they will learn nothing.

[AlexCraig]

Fair enough.

[Solstis]

I have mixed feelings here.

I was in Scouts for a while, but I grew out of it after the whole cub business.

I understand your frustration, but this guy seems like the sort of person that would troll a forum, and no amount of evidence is probably going to convince him.

And, uh, if you weren't involved in scouts, you probably would have time to camp.

Still, what you're trying to do is sounds one part neat, one part childish. But, I'm not personally involved, and I can't tell which it is.

[AlexCraig]

He is one of those guys who believes he is superior to me because he is older. I don't care how old he is, I know a thing or two about how things should be run and how they are run. In my first post, I explained how he blamed my friend and I personally for the injury to our guide in Canada. SHE carried a backpack rather than a canoe, which is what hurt her back. This is just a sample of what he does. Restricting games/activities, restricting nicknames (including those we give ourselves), and forcing us to sit 20 minutes after the meeting is supposed to be over.

Scouting only takes up from 7:30-9:00 on Wednesday nights. Hardly enough time to consume a campout.

[ABDUR101]

The point is though that you're coming across very childish. If everyone in the scouts there aren't having fun, call the parents and go en masse to get a new scoutmaster, or maybe one of you older boys can even become one to take his place. Video documenting different people's point of views? Come on, waste of time. You're all on the same page, if this guy sucks you don't need signed papers and video documentary of it, I'm pretty sure when the entire boyscout troop hates the scoutmaster; there's a way to get him removed or have someone put in his place.

I stand by about being 19 and maybe you should move on, and I understand you enjoy the scouts; it no doubt gives you a sense of purpose to be one of the older boys and able to teach to the younger kids. But don't use the "I'm not a scout anymore so how I act doesn't matter"; thats a cop-out. So rather than beating around the bush, why are you taking this scoutmaster's bullshit? You're 19, stop messing around with video documentary and make phonecalls to parents. You know, be a scout; show initiative and be assertive with the situation.

[Sord]

On 2007-07-13 08:10, ABDUR101 wrote:
The point is though that you're coming across very childish. If everyone in the scouts there aren't having fun, call the parents and go en masse to get a new scoutmaster, or maybe one of you older boys can even become one to take his place. Video documenting different people's point of views? Come on, waste of time. You're all on the same page, if this guy sucks you don't need signed papers and video documentary of it, I'm pretty sure when the entire boyscout troop hates the scoutmaster; there's a way to get him removed or have someone put in his place.

I stand by about being 19 and maybe you should move on, and I understand you enjoy the scouts; it no doubt gives you a sense of purpose to be one of the older boys and able to teach to the younger kids. But don't use the "I'm not a scout anymore so how I act doesn't matter"; thats a cop-out. So rather than beating around the bush, why are you taking this scoutmaster's bullshit? You're 19, stop messing around with video documentary and make phonecalls to parents. You know, be a scout; show initiative and be assertive with the situation.


I'd say taking the videos and stuff as evidence to present to the parents is taking initiative. Also, maybe it's just me, but the fact he want to stay in the scounts when his primary role is to teach the younger ones and make things enjoyable for them isn't any lack of maturity. If that's the case then you might as well damn any kid who wants to become a teacher in some area (in this case survival skills and some morals.) Granted, yes, Alex does not plan to make a job out of this, but the fact that he wants to stay in a position where you have to teach kids should give you some slight sense of respect, or maybe something else, but not scorn.

Nor is using video to document immature or something a 19 year old would do. It can show a lot more and provide more solid proof than a mere voice over the phone or writing on paper. Especially if it has the guy being an ass on it, constantly. If scouts just complain, the parents can become liable to think that their kids are just whining or lazy or it's the typical "I hate my superiors," attitude. If they have actual proof the guy is being an ass, they are more likely to get involved. Over-initiative may involve work that becomes a waste because it's not needed, but that can't really be determined until after the fact.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sord on 2007-07-13 08:53 ]</font>

[AlexCraig]

I see Sord is on the same page as me.

It may not be a job, but it can be put in the same context as a job. Say you have a position in your occupation that you have worked all of your life for. 20-30 years of hard work got you to where you are, and you love it. But your boss is making crappy decisions that are ruining the company. He says it is for the good of the company. Every other employee knows it isn't good. So what do you do? Quit? Hell no! This is your job, this is what you are experienced in. You fix the problem. That is exactly what I am doing.

You may think I am childish, Abdur, but you have no clue who I am or what I am like. To me, you sound like one of those guys who has had a crappy life and believes that everyone else should feel this bad and quit doing what they do. To me, you sound just like my scoutmaster. But I don't have a crappy life, and I am not willing to let people trod all over it like a doormat. I take initiative to make my life better. I want my troop to carry on, so I WILL get video documentary, written statements from the boys, and I WILL present them to the parents of these scouts. I don't give up because I know things can work for the better.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlexCraig on 2007-07-13 09:28 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlexCraig on 2007-07-13 09:29 ]</font>

[Sord]

On 2007-07-13 09:28, AlexCraig wrote:

You may think I am childish, Abdur, but you have no clue who I am or what I am like. To me, you sound like one of those guys who has had a crappy life and believes that everyone else should feel this bad and quit doing what they do. To me, you sound just like my scoutmaster.

I'm afraid that while I agree with you on many points, I wouldn't go about saying stuff like this. It's often what is percieved as childish. Especially the "No clue who I am what I am like line." Even if it's technically true, it's still seen as childish for whatever reason. You don't know much more about Abdur's life either, so I wouldn't go mixing him with your scoutmaster.

[AlexCraig]

Alright, I apologize. But I do hope that he would knock it off sometime. I understand that he does not agree with me, but I feel that he is making fun of me half the time, and I do not appreciate that. He and I just seem like complete opposites.

[ABDUR101]

I'm saying rather than put all this over-extended effort into getting video documentary of what the kids think, just call the parents and say "Hey, those of us in the scout aren't having fun and we wanted to get together with our parents and talk about some issues we've been having with the Scoutmaster..blahblahblah".

One or two kids whining, of course nothing would come of it; but if the entire troop see's the problems and wants it changed I'm pretty damn sure the parents are going to hear everyone out on it. I'm saying why waste time and energy on things that aren't needed. It doesn't matter if someone see's a point of view on camera, or if the kid is right there and tells his side of things. I'd actually be more inclined to beleive a kid who's telling me something in person, than what I see pre-recorded.

Taking notes of what the scoutmaster does, I'd certainly get everyone together and make a list of what he's been doing and saying, and have everyone give their views on how it makes things harder or less fun/interesting.

But your tone goes a long way in this; it really just comes across like you're frustrated and you're lashing out in an underhanded way; and as Cupofcoffee said; thats rather humorous. But thats ok, I was never a boyscout or had anything to do with such things, and I guess if you enjoy it and enjoyed the morals they instilled, thats a-otay.

Overall: If everyone in the scout is having a shitty a time as you say they are; and there parents haven't shipped them and you off to the scouts just to get rid of you guys; then I'm pretty sure your parents would show concern over the issues you have. But maybe they don't, and maybe thats why you feel the need to go through all the bullshit of having video evidence. Oh well, tit for tat. Goodluck; hopefully it gets resolved and everyone can go back to making knots and eating smores.

[DurakkenX]

Yeah like ABDUR said it would do you good to sit down with the parents and scouts and talk it over with them... what you should do as for the telling of parents and such is try to get a meeting together where all the parents and scouts are there, but not the scout leader, then make it in such a way that the scout leave for a period (yourself excluded) so the parents have time to talk and discuss among themselves, and then have the scouts come back and then discuss what the parents have decided and get the input of the scouts ... This important as it will allow the parents not be pressured to consider there kids only but also whatever else they think is important and trhen with the introduction of the scouts back it gets their input and such...

[Ryna]

This thread is being locked at the OP's request.