Stop playing with dolls already

[Nanoframe]

Seems mostly evryone is still using scapedolls even with death penalty removed, why people why?

wasting all those nice 5k on them
why do you still carry dolls?

[Akaimizu]

For me(360), it's because the death penalty is not removed. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Mayu]

I just do <.<

[Aralia]

Cause I'm soloing and don't feel like going back to the lobby every time 4 vahras jump me and simultaniously hit, causing me to go from 1232 hp to 0 in less than a second....

I'll stop carrying dolls once I get my god damn cati/power...

[Dre_o]

Uh that's easy. Cause only two kinds of (PC/PS2) people don't bring Scapes, penalty or not.

1) Haxeta users who are still stingy with their money for some reason.

2) Stupid, fucking noobs.

I consider it polite to have 2 Scapes in my inventory at all times. Why? Cause it costs ME money to replace them, not SOMEONE ELSE money to buy more Moons.

I don't force someone else to pay for my mistake.

[mrlion]

Yeah but whats better? Spending 50,000 for 10 dolls or 3500 for 10 moons?

Let me put it this way you like to spend more than what it should? Why not just pay the dude the amount of Moons he used?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mrlion on 2007-07-25 11:38 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I'm personally willing to moon someone if they died w/ my moon x, and I wish those were sold in NPC stores, but yeah, now, Scapes seem to be pretty useless now. And yeah, in Dre O's list, I'm listed as the people at 1, I'm pretty stingy. Back in the penalty days, I made sure to have at least 5 scapes when going out on S2 missions.

[Mayu]

On 2007-07-25 11:33, Dre_o wrote:
Uh that's easy. Cause only two kinds of (PC/PS2) people don't bring Scapes, penalty or not.

1) Haxeta users who are still stingy with their money for some reason.

Thats me <.<

[Siertes]

I've never died without Scapes before and that isn't going to change anytime soon. I just couldn't stand laying on the ground waiting for someone to revive me. The thought is just...ugh...

[Theoderic]

I agree with the above. Besides who really carries Moons? I know I don't, because nobody elses death is my responsibility. I don't know aof many techers who have Giresta learned either. F... me? Then f... you, too. Cover your own ass... nobody has your back.

[Para]

On 2007-07-25 11:38, Ryuugu-Rena wrote:

On 2007-07-25 11:33, Dre_o wrote:
Uh that's easy. Cause only two kinds of (PC/PS2) people don't bring Scapes, penalty or not.

1) Haxeta users who are still stingy with their money for some reason.

Thats me <.<




I got a bit of meseta but I like to conserve too >_>

[Micro]

I said bye bye to my scapes once I heard the penalty was gone.

[Inazuma]

i noticed this on jp ver. it seems nearly everyone still uses scapes. but its not a problem at all. ppl are free to waste a lot of money on scapes if they choose to.
i recently did hive s2, and one player used up 10 scapes! oh well, his choice.

[EspioKaos]

To be completely honest, I jump at the opportunity to giresta someone back from the dead, so I don't mind when anyone dies mid-mission. The casting time might be ridiculous along with the PP cost, but I'm happy to give one of my TECHNICs a little more experience.

I don't buy Scape Dolls anymore, though. I synth them when I can and rely on drops to keep me stocked.

[Rashiid]

this sure as hell wont be a problem for tha 360 when we get it.

scape dolls are the leading cause of broke-ness.

[amtalx]

If you are broke because you're spending too much money on scapes...you need more practice.

[oooWaveooo]

360 players still have the death penalty intact, and even so people will still expect forces to carry scapes

[Nia]

"F... me? Then f... you, too. Cover your own ass... nobody has your back."

WOW!

Anyhow, I use moons now on a regular basis but I still carry a couple scapes when in a party out of courtesy (and I can afford it). The only times moons REALLY come into play is for new payers who can't afford it and still need to get their MP and when running hard missions like SEED Awakening S. Oh, and for NPC characters.

I suppose I'll never totally stop using Scapes, but as the community as a whole starts using moons more and more the Scapes will trail off respectively.

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-07-25 11:48, Rashiid wrote:
this sure as hell wont be a problem for tha 360 when we get it.

scape dolls are the leading cause of broke-ness.



Actually, combined recharge costs and traps generally slow funds better than Scape Dolls. Mainly for people who generally don't see death much, they're using plenty of both for the harder missions. For every time I lose a scape, I lose many times that amount on traps and recharges.

Still, I come out positive. Being broke generally means you've gotten continual raw deals on drops. Nobody's fault, except the best monsters still being able to drop the lowest valued items, and often.

[Rashiid]

On 2007-07-25 11:54, oooWaveooo wrote:
360 players still have the death penalty intact, and even so people will still expect forces to carry scapes



id be damned. moons = 100m (tink)

if sumone cant get 10; then theres sumthin wrong.

[drizzle]

I haven't run out yet http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[Jife_Jifremok]

I'd rather not wait for someone to revive me simply because I fell victim to poor hit detection, palette unresponsiveness, cheap shots, or just something stupid that I did. It's not like I have cute little kitties carting me off to base, so...

And so far, I've only seen two people die without scapes since the removal of the penalty: one who died and left (probably didn't know about the change) and someone who dies a LOT...and I don't mind using moons to revive someone.

Add: And I like to play with dolls. *cackles as he beats up a Godzilla toy with a Monster Hunter figure*

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2007-07-25 12:15 ]</font>

[Gen2000]

If you are broke because you're spending too much money on scapes...you need more practice.

Seriously. I carry them because I rarely die anyways so they aren't breaking my bank and I also don't like slowing down the team with my death. Don't like the idea of someone paying for my mistake even if it's only 100m. I can take care of myself.

[Mystil]

I almost don't die as a fortefighter and I've never died as a GT. I blew though scapes as FT though. Not anymore since I'm a FF again.

And I've never seen the "death scene" aka dying with no scapes. I plan to keep it that way.

[Kylie]

It's their money, so I don't care. =D

I don't buy them though. If I die with one, it's a leftover from my supply, or I found it.

[DikkyRay]

wait the death penalty was removed?
Ohhhh...
Well i use em when i find em. Since no one i know carries moons

[Shiryuu]

I don't like missing out on exp. :/

[creativehope]

Even when the death penalty is removed from the 360 side, I will still carry scape dolls. You cant count on those moons to heal you forever and besides there are people who feel like the above poster, Theoderic

Cover your own ass... nobody has your back

while he is entitled to feel that way, If you are one of the people in his party then it is in your best interest to bring them

Besides I'm a techer
I die really easily if I'm not careful

and no one heals a techer
thats just embarrasing



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: creativehope on 2007-07-25 12:29 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: creativehope on 2007-07-25 12:30 ]</font>

[BahnKnakyu]

I don't like missing out on exp. :/

That's the only reason why I carry scapes myself. I don't like waiting for people to revive me.

And to the OP, I've partied with you, and you don't do that much support and nuke everything on sight, so I would definitely carry scapes and mates because I wouldn't expect you to cover my rear.

[RegulusHikari]

Typically NPCs do not carry moons so I don't bother soloing without scapes. It's all I've been doing after all.

And if I ever do feel like joining a party, I'd have to run back to my room or sell them, which wouldn't be very efficient anyway.

[Wallin]

On 2007-07-25 12:21, Shiryuu wrote:
I don't like missing out on exp. :/



QFT, especially since as a Fortetecher the only time I really die is against bosses, and depending on the group I'm in they either kill the boss before someone can revive me, or they kill too slow and need all the help they can get. Experience is still experience after all, kill a single dragon or several dozen Pannon for the same amount, I don't like to waste either way. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And I don't know if times have changed since the patch (I've pretty much just been running HSM or soloing), but I really hate the diffusion of responsibility (wow, psychology came in handy) where you have 5 people running around you and none of them revive you because they expect someone else to do it, and continue to fight the boss anyway while you enjoy a full course meal of dirt for a couple of minutes until someone realizes, "Oh, huh... I guess I should revive that person since no one else has. Durrr..."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wallin on 2007-07-25 12:31 ]</font>

[Tigerram]

I solo a lot, but like Espio said, I rely on the dropped boards and/ or doll drops to stay stocked. I try not to purchase them, but I don't purchase more than 5 if I have to.

[Rashiid]

On 2007-07-25 12:17, Gen2000 wrote:

If you are broke because you're spending too much money on scapes...you need more practice.

Seriously. I carry them because I rarely die anyways so they aren't breaking my bank and I also don't like slowing down the team with my death. Don't like the idea of someone paying for my mistake even if it's only 100m. I can take care of myself.



as a force; many things in S2s take me out in a shot or 2 (dont even preach to me about armor %'s; even w/ those); espcially bosses.


On 2007-07-25 12:21, Shiryuu wrote:
I don't like missing out on exp. :/



thats why i hit tha cap EARLY after its raised.

[Mikura]

I still carry scapes because 1: I don't like to slow down the party and 2: I hate being a burden to someone else when it was my fault I died. Plus, I feel like a noob waiting on someone else to revive my sorry ass. >.>

[Akaimizu]

On 2007-07-25 12:13, Jife_Jifremok wrote: It's not like I have cute little kitties carting me off to base, so...


Yep. Monster Hunter references to PSU are always good. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

But I don't trust those Kitties. They always steal your good stuff!! Nobody should've ever given them those extendable mechanical Hamburger Helper hands.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2007-07-25 12:33 ]</font>

[Shiryuu]

On 2007-07-25 12:29, Rashiid wrote:


On 2007-07-25 12:21, Shiryuu wrote:
I don't like missing out on exp. :/



thats why i hit tha cap EARLY after its raised.


That's boring.

[Rashiid]

how? so i can resta/buff w/o having to tag everything?

id rather use a huge spell and just watch the enemy drop then see yellow numbers after.

[Freshellent]

Habit. Just a bad habit is all. I only carry two or 3 now. Less time my party worries about me the better I feel.

[Tykwa]

I don't, I never don't, theres always some event better than that said mission/ whatever, so "If your so worried about an S rank and money go to nuedaiz HQ"

[Neith]

EXP isn't a huge problem for me, but what I hate is knowing that a huge portion of Uni 2 players on PC/PS2 would rather nuke to death a whole room rather than revive someone who's died.

I've died without a scape once in the time I've played- and that was fighting Magas with a way underleveled job class. I burn through Scapes as my fT in some missions too. Thing is, I know a lot of people don't even bother to carry Moons, so why wait on someone to revive me when it's likely it won't happen anyway?

For the record, I carry 10 Scapes, 10 Moons and 10 Moon X's on all my characters. It's expensive sometimes, but until people learn to use Moon Atomizers, I'm not so sure I want to be left dead in some of the high end missions.

One way people could learn to use Moons is to return to lobby everytime you die, until they learn the hard way (by not getting any rewards from the mission). I'm not that cruel though. I've started picking up Scape boards when I solo to synth them- paying 5k a piece is killer.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2007-07-25 12:47 ]</font>

[DurakkenX]

i dont carry scapes because quite frankly i don't give a shyt if i waste someone's meseta...it's not like moons drop all the time...and techers expect me to dimate and trimate myself for 300-500mst a use when they can cast resta for a few PP which end up being maybe 500pp max. Seriously bad techers cost me more than half my take from missiondue to having to use mates...why add scapes on top of that?

[Powder Keg]

I can't even afford dolls anymore from trying to make Pure PMs. If others want to waste their meseta, let them. Most of the people who buy them have millions of meseta anyway.

[ljk54167]

I kicked the scape habit. Why bother wasting the meseta? Hell I might even start selling ones I pick up to other folks for 1k.

I actually find it interesting dying without a scape as you can tell something the party you are with when it happens. Right now though, since most everyone is just doing PO and SW S2, people rarely die during those missions anyways.

Oh yeah, as far as I am concerned I have stacks of Moon X's that are waiting to be used. Don't feel bad about dying without a scape http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[ayrista]

i dont like people mooning me, so i carry dollies

[Finae]

Eh, if this was back in oct-nov, then I wouldn't be usin scapes. Still use em because uh well.....I got $ and I'm too lazy to wait to be revived. I don't die that often either so uh.........yeah. And like....I can find 10 of them after spamming whatever mission so uh....yeah. And uh...giresta useful? Uh, if I'm on my FT, I'ma use a moon. Giresta is useless.

The day I see people boot other people because they have scapes on them will be funny. No, I'd just call that person a nub because its a stupid reason to boot someone.

Look, if you want people to use moons 100%, get sega to get rid of scape dolls entirely. That is the only way to solve it. Majority of the population will continue to use scape dolls no matter how many people dislike it.

[majorgamer55]

1- saves tiem using scape
2- u look a bit noobish dying and being revived all the time
3- if you arent in a 5-6 pl party u might want some scapes, because what if you battling jarbas and megid kills you all w/out scapes?

[panzer_unit]

On 2007-07-25 11:39, Theoderic wrote:
I agree with the above. Besides who really carries Moons? I know I don't, because nobody elses death is my responsibility. I don't know aof many techers who have Giresta learned either. F... me? Then f... you, too. Cover your own ass... nobody has your back.


Awesome: do nothing to stop yourself from getting penalized for OTHER people's mistakes, and of course get really mad about it.

I don't bother carrying scapes now, there's no point when someone else saves themselves a few thousand meseta by using a 350 meseta Moon Atomizer, and of course I'll carry moons for the same reason: 350 meseta on an item, to earn 3500 more meseta on rewards... hmm let me think....

If I'm soloing somewhere I can die, I'm certainly not doing it for money. Again scapes are a financial loss with no benefit since my classes are maxed. IMO getting knocked out is just a shortcut to the recharge cube and saves on photon charges I'd use otherwise.

[Gen2000]

On 2007-07-25 12:29, Rashiid wrote:

On 2007-07-25 12:17, Gen2000 wrote:

If you are broke because you're spending too much money on scapes...you need more practice.

Seriously. I carry them because I rarely die anyways so they aren't breaking my bank and I also don't like slowing down the team with my death. Don't like the idea of someone paying for my mistake even if it's only 100m. I can take care of myself.



as a force; many things in S2s take me out in a shot or 2 (dont even preach to me about armor %'s; even w/ those); espcially bosses.



Heh, I won't then but I'll just say that on my FO my little old 30% element armor protects me against one-two shots well enough that I don't get one shotted unless like 6 enemies jump me at once or something extreme like that which then I deserve to die anyways for setting up that situation (which I sometimes do getting lost in the Gi-tech spam after a few grind sessions).

Working on better % element armors to become a better Tech Tank.

[chibiLegolas]

Honestly, I think I find dolls more frequently than how often I die. And as a result, my PM and storage box is too full of scapes, so I'm always carrying excess dolls on me cause of that. But once I naturally waste my dolls, I don't intend on carrying them anymore, unless for bosses.

I don't mind using moons on ppl, so I'd expect ppl to not mine if I die once in a while as well. Just don't die in some obscure place that's a trek to get to. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Sexy_Raine]

On 2007-07-25 12:13, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
I'd rather not wait for someone to revive me simply because I fell victim to poor hit detection, palette unresponsiveness, cheap shots, or just something stupid that I did. It's not like I have cute little kitties carting me off to base, so...

And so far, I've only seen two people die without scapes since the removal of the penalty: one who died and left (probably didn't know about the change) and someone who dies a LOT...and I don't mind using moons to revive someone.

Add: And I like to play with dolls. *cackles as he beats up a Godzilla toy with a Monster Hunter figure*

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2007-07-25 12:15 ]</font>


I told you why I don't die without em, To avoid the dreaded nubbish red screen of death. I try to be careful not to die, I always do. Plus, I'm not letting a nub see me lie there on the ground!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2007-07-25 13:11 ]</font>

[Fox_Makenshi]

What's with the constant "If someone brings you back to life you must be a noob." attitude? Mistakes happen and people die, it's how games work. Carrying a few scapes to be courteous to your team is nice but not a necessity.

I remember in PSO (I know this is not PSO but the death system is similar now) I only brought a couple scapes for bosses and such because most people were nice enough to rez you. I mean I know you could just town and pipe which we can't do anymore but just be nice and rez people. If you do die scapeless just swallow your pride and say "Thank you" or pay them back for the item if you feel obligated. I don't think less of people for dieing because I know it happens. If they die, they die. Just bring them back and get on with the mission.

When I come back I'll carry some scapes if I have them or for hard missions and if I die scapeless I'll apologize for making a mistake and thank the person that revived me. I won't think that they're paying for my mistake or that I suck just because I died. I'm going to carry 10 moon/moonX's on me at all time in case someone does die. I like to be a team player.

Most of you are right though that people would rather take the room down before reviving a team member and that's part of the problem. If you see someone is down be courteous and revive them when you aren't in danger of dieing. An example would be that you shouldn't run into storm of megid to revive someone because then you are likely to die too.

Love,
Fox Makenshi

[Shiryuu]

On 2007-07-25 12:39, Rashiid wrote:
how? so i can resta/buff w/o having to tag everything?

id rather use a huge spell and just watch the enemy drop then see yellow numbers after.


Grinding to cap like crazy is boring.

[Nanoframe]

On 2007-07-25 12:25, BahnKnakyu wrote:

I don't like missing out on exp. :/

That's the only reason why I carry scapes myself. I don't like waiting for people to revive me.

And to the OP, I've partied with you, and you don't do that much support and nuke everything on sight, so I would definitely carry scapes and mates because I wouldn't expect you to cover my rear.


It must have been the night I was grinding really tired and passing out and could not pay attention to peoples health.

I do like to keep the party well healed though

[Wraithwin]

I just wish, when you died, it gave you more options;

1) Return to City
2) Use Scape Doll (if you have one)
3) Wait to be Revived (not really an option so much as waiting)

That'd be nice.

[DarkEliteRico]

I don't use em enough as it is now, mostly running solo time to time, grinding and hunting for S-rank boards. When i'm in a group, i'll carry at least one, having enough mates and atomizers to heal myself and others if needed. Moon-X's though.....can't seem to carry any when i need em, stuck using shitty ole ones.

[HFlowen]

They aren't dolls, they're ACTION figures.... >.>;

[Rayokarna]

On 2007-07-25 13:19, Fox_Makenshi wrote:
What's with the constant "If someone brings you back to life you must be a noob." attitude? Mistakes happen and people die, it's how games work. Carrying a few scapes to be courteous to your team is nice but not a necessity.

I remember in PSO (I know this is not PSO but the death system is similar now) I only brought a couple scapes for bosses and such because most people were nice enough to rez you. I mean I know you could just town and pipe which we can't do anymore but just be nice and rez people. If you do die scapeless just swallow your pride and say "Thank you" or pay them back for the item if you feel obligated. I don't think less of people for dieing because I know it happens. If they die, they die. Just bring them back and get on with the mission.

When I come back I'll carry some scapes if I have them or for hard missions and if I die scapeless I'll apologize for making a mistake and thank the person that revived me. I won't think that they're paying for my mistake or that I suck just because I died. I'm going to carry 10 moon/moonX's on me at all time in case someone does die. I like to be a team player.

Most of you are right though that people would rather take the room down before reviving a team member and that's part of the problem. If you see someone is down be courteous and revive them when you aren't in danger of dieing. An example would be that you shouldn't run into storm of megid to revive someone because then you are likely to die too.

Love,
Fox Makenshi



That is exactly the attitude the PSU community needs. I have gone on many games and most of the time there higher than me by a good twenty levels. In this game, levels don't always save you from death in A, S and S2. So there will be a point where you gonna be lying there for a while before someone revives you.

I have seen many high level fall to unlucky situations like lag, megid, weapon loading or just being reckless. Most of the high level characters in parties don't carry Scapes and it's usually a race to see who can revive them the fastest. It's gotten to a point where I have wasted a scape trying to revive someone(wasn't on the pallete so I had 2 go through the menu, couldn't see what I was doing.).

Sometimes you just have to eat you're pride and just take the Moon like a real Guardian lol. But you should carry scapes just in case you're whole party dies at once, and trust me in boss fights, Ive seen it happen. Being the last one standing in a 6 person party is not the nicest thing for the lowest levelled character in the party.

[XDeviousX]

Who needs to spend 50k to restock scape dolls after every mission? Who dies every mission, scape doll or not? I die maybe once every four to five missions and when I do die on a mission a lot it is because I'm spamming a PA to cap it's level or to learn a new weapon up to it's fullest combo level, at the least....

Scape dolls are MY responsibility to the party. I saw a player die more then 10 time on Crimson Beast on block 3 fighting the Jabs and Gol Dova. They kept trying to fight the jabs melee, face to face, and without a stun locking PA!!! It wouldn't have been so bad but other people kept dying trying to revive her in the middle of a group of Jabs...

I find that bad or careless players are getting even more bad and careless because they assume no responsibility for their reckless gaming. I know if I want to go "hero" and charge into a group of Jabs to draw fire, it will be at my own cost for my actions.

Moons are cheaper, but I find I'm restocking them after each mission now, and since replace 1 or 2 after every four mission now on average, and I have to restock moons now after every mission, (at least 4 or more....) I spend more now on average to keep up with moon costs then I ever did on replacing Scapes since I knew how expensive they were to replace when I died...

[DreadKnight]

I haven't bought a moon or a scape doll yet but somehow I still manage to have at the very least a few moons on me when I begin missions. I'm really not seeing what the big deal is. If someone dies, be nice and revive them. I want my team to do well so I'm always happy to be the nice one to rez someone else. Scape dolls? I like to have them on me, but if I don't, it's not the end of the world(anymore that is).

People need to caaaalm down. Take a few breaths and enjoy the game, be considerate of others, treat people the way you want to be treated, etc.

[Jakosifer]

I don't play without them, I don't like being a burden to anyone else if I die...Nor do I like laying around if someone decides not to revive me.

[SStrikerR]

this wasnt listed, but okay, i bought 10 scapes a while back, and ive only died 3 times since then, so i still have 7. happy now?

[Lyrix]

hmmm, i find that the enemies die faster since i don't have to worry about dieing costing me money. that, and it's become a habit to avoid things, so i still don't die that often.

[PrinceRhys]

Interesting topic...interesting replies. Here's my 2 cents. Put me in the anti scape group. I was always hoping for these new set of death rules because I like the classic "RPG" team mentality. Since I've played all the old PSs, I guess I automatically assume that the game should be like that where teams support each other. If someone runs into a hail of death, it's their fault and maybe that type of player should carry scapes. But for players who play with sense and skill, I think it could be a really fun experience and just accentuate the party atmosphere. Like on PSO, I find a sick pleasure in having to risk life and limb to save party members that made honest mistakes/were in the wrong place at the wrong time. And maybe complete parties should dies sometimes--keep things challenging. Add a little risk.

Ideally, and I know most don't agree, I would prefer npcs not sell scape dolls. You could still find them, but teams would then HAVE to work together instead of being "every man (or woman) for him(her)self." Like others, I can't believe the pride on here. It's just a game. If someone calles you a "noob," who cares? They will be just as "noobish" when die.

Have fun out there.

[Lyrix]

ya, i always preferred the PSO method of mooning when someone dies to make things easier, with scapes being a luxury. i always carried moons and i always will, its just the way i am.

[Reipard]

The 'every man for himself' conditioning that this incredibly poor play mechanic helped cause is part of the reasoning.

Sega should have just removed them from the stores and made them rightfully psuedo-rares. Then we would be completely back on track, yo.

[Nia]

Agreed! I loved the added play mechanic of "OH CRAP FALZ GOT ME! HALP!" and your buddies come running to save you! All the while dodging death to rez you... good times. People have been spoiled by Scapes in player shops.

[Lyrix]

On 2007-07-25 17:13, Nia wrote:
Agreed! I loved the added play mechanic of "OH CRAP FALZ GOT ME! HALP!" and your buddies come running to save you! All the while dodging death to rez you... good times. People have been spoiled by Scapes in player shops.



ya, I remember that with my friends XD I was always the lowest level, but I survived by about 50 hp and had to run around the giant ring reviving everyone. I think it would be interesting to see how different things would be if this was the method from the start.

[dragoon-girl]

I'll still carry some scapes, but not as meny now... The ones who are going on about not wanting to revive you just make me annoyed... You're meant to be a team, I will always keep fully stocked on moons. (unless I become short on funds one day).
Infact my favourite thing about now being a WT is healing powers, even if I am a beast.

[Kinako78]

On 2007-07-25 11:48, Rashiid wrote:
this sure as hell wont be a problem for tha 360 when we get it.

scape dolls are the leading cause of broke-ness.



No kidding. And yet people keep buying them for me cause, I guess, they're too lazy to want to revive me. >_<

[RappyRobot]

On 2007-07-25 11:32, Aralia wrote:
Cause I'm soloing and don't feel like going back to the lobby every time 4 vahras jump me and simultaniously hit, causing me to go from 1232 hp to 0 in less than a second....

I'll stop carrying dolls once I get my god damn cati/power...




*you'll never get cati/power hahahhahahahhhahahahhahahahhahahahahh (evil laugh)

[RappyRobot]

but seriously, I solo and hunt a lot so its better for me to carry them with. Going back and forth to lobby sucks!!! plus it makes the mission go faster and many pppl have died trying to revive others. but I do see your point and may stop in AOI. we'll see. Not to mention I also play fortetecher a lot ....how do i cast giresta on myself? lol if I'm dead. if the fo is dead who revives the others? ppl dont always notice right away too , or are too busy to do it if your on other side of screen.

[RappyRobot]

On 2007-07-25 16:29, Reipard wrote:
The 'every man for himself' conditioning that this incredibly poor play mechanic helped cause is part of the reasoning.

Sega should have just removed them from the stores and made them rightfully psuedo-rares. Then we would be completely back on track, yo.




rare??? O.O are we playing the same game. Scape doll brds are rare right now lol. and even then I get tons of them all over the place.

[DurakkenX]

I don't die until I get to "large" enemies and mainly because they are cheap... I'm almost always dying when I have max HP when I can do something about HP...i've been stuck frozen long enough for the same jarba to cast ir's barta tech THREE times...and their megid 1hit KOs me. I die a lot against them mainly because I'm the only target against them when there is multiple and not when there is one... Controlling mobs via aggro is easy but fucks you up when someone else decides to hit the mob cuz then you have no idea where their going and that's often why i die to megid or jsut being hit... So it's the TEAM that gets me killed most times, not myself... The only time my HP gets to dangerous levels is when there is a techer in the room...

how fair is it for someone to die to cheap stuff and be expected to carry scape dolls...not only that also be expected to carry dimates and trimates and heal themselves...especially on s2 missions. Think about it. Every hit that a melee fighter takes is 300mst at minimum. So lets assume someone gets hit 20 times...that's 6000mst per run... and if you play well you can let your HP fall to a lvl that makes trimate worthwhile which is more than 1000dmg and is roughly 40hits and 10000... You're telling me if I get hit 60times in a run I should pay 16000mst? Assuming that you are playing missions with average amount of enemies which is around 90 and you get hit once by each of them...you're spending 16k for that mission. THEN lets assume you die once a mission... that's another 5k. You're up to 21000mst when a techer should be absorbing all this with technics. All of that costs no more than 1k. I carry photon charges, full stock of dimates, trimates, monomates, moonatomizers, and moon atomizers Xs, and quite frankly I'd rather just give someone a photoncharge than waste money on trimates and dimates when in a team....

I just find it funny that everyone yells "THIS IS A ONLINE GAME, WHY ARE YOU PLAYING SOLO" also are the ones who refuse to carry moons, and heal others... you know, acting as a team.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DurakkenX on 2007-07-25 19:05 ]</font>

[PrinceRhys]

Not to mention I also play fortetecher a lot ....how do i cast giresta on myself? lol if I'm dead. if the fo is dead who revives the others? ppl dont always notice right away too , or are too busy to do it if your on other side of screen.



That's where the team comes into play. In classic PS, the force/mage/tech user was always the fall guy--Rune, Noah/Lutz. That's where intermediate healers such as WT come into play. Like w/ my WT, I'm enjoying the ability to take attacks and still use techs, albeit weaker techs. Good thing about Giresta is it doesn't matter how weak it is--it revives at lvl 1. And if they were to do away with/limit/not sell scape dolls, who's to say sega won't balance that out with making giresta casting speed faster so you can put your team back together in dangerous situations. Or...you can always use a moon.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PrinceRhys on 2007-07-25 19:15 ]</font>

[Anduril]

I only carry 2 Scapes with me, and that's only when I solo play, just so I don't have to keep running back to where I was when I died to finish my fight. But I think I've only ever bought one Scape, I usually find 2 or 3 a week when running Train Rescue. I usually just sell them at my store for 3500. I will definitely start carrying moons(seeing as I don't have enough frags to get Giresta yet) when we on the 360 get the no death penalty update.

[Theoderic]

I didn't mean to come off as I won't cover anyone else's ass. I was saying that nobody covers mine. I get Resta and Reverser but that's as far as it goes. People might want to carry Moon Atomizers but I don't expect anyone to cover me. A few non-techers I have partied with did not have Moons, and let someone lay dead, without going to get any Moons, and told them to lay dead until the mission was over. I hate rude people, and I would hate it if I was the player laying dead without Scapes. It inconveniences me and the other players, so to avoid the hastle I just keep 10 on me. I rarely die, unless I get stunned by a Svaltus, or OHKOed by a critical from the fire Gohmon (oh wait, FB is over), so I don't mind keeping them on me. Anybody who has had bad experiences like this would carry Scapes. I pay for my own mistakes. EVERY ONE! I keep Moons on me, but I don't buy them. So if people die on my watch, I will revive you. If I can't, I won't mind going to get supplies. It's not like it's the end of the world. But I cover my ass because I don't expect people to cover it for me. That's what I meant.

[Kinako78]

I actually try my best to keep myself alive, as well, but, as you said, with certain enemies, it's very difficult.

[SarinSerafi]

I hardly ever die in missions with parties or in solo/duo, so it's not really an issue. I used to carry 10 - now I just carry 5 scape dolls. In the off chance I happen to get caught off guard and do die, I can get up quickly and get back to business.

I never buy Moons either - I just pick up Moon X's in missions (God knows there's way too many of them) and keep them, just in case.

[Fox_Makenshi]

Well there's no doubt you should still play the same way. As in "Try really hard not to die because it is not fun." Just because there is no penalty it doesn't mean HP has no meaning anymore. You should always watch your HP and heal up when necessary but if you happen to die your team should help you back up. If someone leaves you for dead until the end of the mission you should just return and leave the party, they obviously don't deserve the S rank. In case anyone hasn't noticed this is a TEAM based game. If you solo that's cool but for the rest of us we need to start working as a team and stop worrying about how much meseta you spend on moons and whatnot.

Love,
Fox Makenshi

[Jife_Jifremok]

And why should the team be fucked up by an individual? Although they're wrong for leaving a man behind, are you not just as wrong for dying?

[Fox_Makenshi]

I think it depends on the death. If it was an accident or a once in a while thing then I think you shouldn't get on their case about it. People die, it happens. Sometimes you just get screwed over, stuck in a corner, surrounded, hit by megid, etc... If the person is constantly dieing every mission then I think you have a problem. You shouldn't play with people who use the new system as an excuse to suck, I think that goes without saying.

Love,
Fox Makenshi

[Lyrix]

On 2007-07-25 20:58, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
And why should the team be fucked up by an individual? Although they're wrong for leaving a man behind, are you not just as wrong for dying?



thats just wrong, is it wrong to NOT wanna waste money, is it wrong to die by ACCIDENT. as many have said, it is a TEAM game, if you don't wanna work as a team, go solo or play a single player game.

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-07-25 21:28, Lyrix wrote:

On 2007-07-25 20:58, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
And why should the team be fucked up by an individual? Although they're wrong for leaving a man behind, are you not just as wrong for dying?



thats just wrong, is it wrong to NOT wanna waste money, is it wrong to die by ACCIDENT. as many have said, it is a TEAM game, if you don't wanna work as a team, go solo or play a single player game.



Having a TEAM is no excuse to be a burden. I'm a team player myself and will revive people who are dead, but that shouldn't be an excuse to just lay around dead. You're still making other people pay for your mistakes or misfortune.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2007-07-25 22:15 ]</font>

[Lyrix]

On 2007-07-25 22:12, Jife_Jifremok wrote:

On 2007-07-25 21:28, Lyrix wrote:

On 2007-07-25 20:58, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
And why should the team be fucked up by an individual? Although they're wrong for leaving a man behind, are you not just as wrong for dying?



thats just wrong, is it wrong to NOT wanna waste money, is it wrong to die by ACCIDENT. as many have said, it is a TEAM game, if you don't wanna work as a team, go solo or play a single player game.



Having a TEAM is no excuse to be a burden. I'm a team player myself and will revive people who are dead, but that shouldn't be an excuse to just lay around dead. You're still making other people pay for your mistakes or misfortune.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2007-07-25 22:15 ]</font>


not everyone who dies is a burden, and if they really suck that much, kick their asses out. its only a burden if you let it be. it's good that you're a team player, but if someone doesn't wanna play as a team, tell um to go solo. and don't say you've NEVER made a mistake thats affected someone else, cuz that would be a big ass lie.

[Reipard]

rare??? O.O are we playing the same game. Scape doll brds are rare right now lol. and even then I get tons of them all over the place.

Tell me, what does the word psuedo mean to you?


And why should the team be fucked up by an individual? Although they're wrong for leaving a man behind, are you not just as wrong for dying?

Having a TEAM is no excuse to be a burden. I'm a team player myself and will revive people who are dead, but that shouldn't be an excuse to just lay around dead. You're still making other people pay for your mistakes or misfortune.


Sure, it's wrong to die. Because everyone runs around dying on purpose all the time just to spite others.

The point of teamwork is to allow other people to help you carry a burden, thereby burdening themselves and supporting you.

The implied agreement is that you, in turn, carry theirs and burden yourself to support them.

Such is the circle of teamwork. Dying is an inconvenience to a team and yes, the team can pay for such mistakes. But a team handles it and supports its members for their common goal. Otherwise, they are not a team.

[D1ABOLIK]

On 2007-07-25 11:33, Dre_o wrote:
Uh that's easy. Cause only two kinds of (PC/PS2) people don't bring Scapes, penalty or not.

1) Haxeta users who are still stingy with their money for some reason.

2) Stupid, fucking noobs.

I consider it polite to have 2 Scapes in my inventory at all times. Why? Cause it costs ME money to replace them, not SOMEONE ELSE money to buy more Moons.

I don't force someone else to pay for my mistake.

Cause moons dont drop like crazy or anything.And its not like they are way cheaper than scapes or something too.That would be crazy.

________
Toyota celica gt-four history (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_Celica_GT-Four)

[Uncle_bob]

No. I took advantage of the shitty economy. I have the money to buy Dolls as I please and I will continue to do so. Not that I die that much anyway, this game isn't that hard. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[mvffin]

during firebreak, i carried at least 5 moons at all times(jarbas like to use dambarta). no, its not my responsibility to revive someone, but i'm not gonna crucify them for catching a random megid either. 350 for a moon at npc is a drop in the bucket, and right after i use the moon, switch to my wand and resta them. its called being a TEAM PLAYER.

[bloodflowers]

I'm hoping the death penalty change never reaches the 360. Reduce the cost of scape dolls significantly, but make scaped deaths still cost S rank. Increase the S and A rewards. I still believe in games being difficult to get the best rewards from.

[DurakkenX]

btw i should mention that saving money will help the team more and burden people less by allowing those players to get better equipment...but then of course all of us Ps2/Pc players have tons of meseta and rares...wait... what, almost everyone on those servers are broke and it's nearly impossible to get a rare...so that's kind of a stupid statement.

oh well...

[SStrikerR]

also, about the topic title, you cant just tell people, stop using them. if they want to use them they can, THEY pay for it, YOU dont have to worry, so why the crap do you care?

[Fox_Makenshi]

To the people say that someone who dies is a burden or a noob, I said that if they die all the time then you shouldn't play with them. If they die once in a while it shouldn't be that big a deal. As I said, you shouldn't play with people who use the new system as an excuse to suck.

Love,
Fox Makenshi

[dragoon-girl]

What if they just suck reguardless?

[Guitarsmasher]

Why was the death penalty removed from only the PS2/PC servers and not the 360 one?

[Fox_Makenshi]

On 2007-07-26 07:11, dragoon-girl wrote:
What if they just suck reguardless?



Well then don't play with them lol. It's your choice who to play with but all I was saying is that we need to act like a team and if someone dies just revive them. If one person costs you all of your moons then you have a huge problem b/c they do just plain suck.

Love,
Fox Makenshi

[relentless]

I use the scapes I find now.
I get enough of them to keep me stocked and I don't die so easily. (ya I'm fT so what.Lol)

[Esufer]

It's not a doll, it's an action figure.

EDIT: Damnit, someone already said it.!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Esufer on 2007-07-26 07:53 ]</font>

[amtalx]

On 2007-07-26 07:21, Guitarsmasher wrote:
Why was the death penalty removed from only the PS2/PC servers and not the 360 one?



Any updates downloaded through Xblive have to pass through MS certification.

[Aluria]

this has been a very interesting topic. from my offline experience I've rarely needed dollys but I'm sure that it is different online. Chances are I'll try to keep two on me at all times based on what everyone has said and keep Moons with me as well. I just wonder at what level does carrying Dolls really start to make the difference? I don't think carrying them at levels one to ten would make a difference but 30s? 40s?

[Guitarsmasher]

On 2007-07-26 07:57, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-07-26 07:21, Guitarsmasher wrote:
Why was the death penalty removed from only the PS2/PC servers and not the 360 one?



Any updates downloaded through Xblive have to pass through MS certification.



So is there any chance an update like this would happen in the near future? or Microsoft absolutely won't allow an update like this?

[chibiLegolas]

On 2007-07-25 17:13, Nia wrote:
Agreed! I loved the added play mechanic of "OH CRAP FALZ GOT ME! HALP!" and your buddies come running to save you! All the while dodging death to rez you... good times. People have been spoiled by Scapes in player shops.



I 2nd that idea as well!
I'm not sure why they made scapes available in shops now instead of rare drop only. (Falz's grants too cheezy in PSO? So lets give a shyt load of mobs with megid now in PSU AND make dolls easily available?).
But yea, getting rid of dolls from npc's = no more crying over who picked up the scapedoll/[B] scapedoll/ omega acid....
And forces team mates to go into that crowd of jarbas to revive a player (for example). So more stradegy of who goes in, who distracts which jarbas, etc.
Sounds fun to me!

[AweOfShe]

I have Scapes because I solo more often than not. It's not as if NPCs can revive me. Durr...

[Cracka_J]

I just keep what I find in the field. If I run out, then I run out.
It's funny still seeing people get pissed about deaths. I got hit by 2 svaltus shots and a spin yesterday on my ft (all at once), had full health/buffs/debuffs on svaltus and someone still ended up crying, even though we ended on srank. But whatever, people always find something to complain about.

[XDeviousX]

I like how people keep saying "Moons are cheaper..." because they mean cheaper for THEM...

I don't know why ANYONE should have a problem with people being EXTRA responsible by carrying scapes. It is their money and their sense of team responsibility, not other people's idioms of how to conduct themselves.

It seems to me like people posting on the "No Scapes" side are trying to justify why they don't carry scapedolls on missions. If you don't carry them, fine, but realize unless you replace the moons people use to revive you, or the money for the moons used to revive you, you are costing other players money, period.

At least when I die using a scape I am costing myself money, therefore I try extra hard not to die because I don't want to lose money and resources. I generally use moons for lower leveled players learning how to play and trying to gain some cash from mission rewards, but anyone level 50+ should at least have a few scapes as a common courtesy to the team....

There is really no debate about this. People will carry scapes if they want to, and I for one appreciate other gamers that take on an EXTRA responsibilities for team rewards. Not saying that people that don't carry moons are irresponsible, just that people that carry scapes, and moons, are more responsible...

[Fox_Makenshi]

You're forgetting the people who don't care if others use scapes but will carry moons so they can be a team player. There's nothing wrong at all with using scapes, if you want to spend your money that way go ahead. Hell even I'll carry scapes if I have them or need them for a specific mission. There's nothing wrong at all with using scapes but I wouldn't assume that people have them all the time.

Love,
Fox Makenshi

[Nanoframe]

Im thinking the game would be more fun if people did not use scapes for most missions.
With scapes its the usual boring grind with no danger and intense battles , moon and gi resta use would add more depth to the game.

[panzer_unit]

I try hard to avoid dying because it sucks. Using a scape, getting mooned, or walking back from the field base... they're all bad, being revived is the best option of that lot however. Unfortunately it's impossible to let someone revive you while carrying scapes.

Simple enough, I don't carry scapes. If worst comes to worst and nobody revives me, the only people losing out on money are me (who would be spending a compareable amount on a scape doll) and a bunch of jerks who couldn't be bothered to use one of the dozen moon atomizers we've no doubt come across by that point. I'm sure they're hardcore enough to accept an A rank on the mission for their lack of teamwork and preparation.

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2007-07-26 12:46, Nanoframe wrote:
Im thinking the game would be more fun if people did not use scapes for most missions.
With scapes its the usual boring grind with no danger and intense battles , moon and gi resta use would add more depth to the game.



And how would that add more depth? All it is is simply throwing a moon at someone who's dead (with maybe a joke or two) and going right back into the fray. It's still the same boring grind.

[Maverynthia]

I carry only waht I pick up in groups, Moons are there for a reason. The only time I carry scapes is if I'm soloing.

Go ahead and call me a n00b, it just show how n00b you are for not wanting to revive a person.

[Garnet_Moon]

I don't use Dolls because I can't afford them. I have one Moon Atomizer to my name, and that was a drop.

Don't die in my party, and be sure to bring Giresta or a Moonmizer when i'm in yours.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[XDeviousX]

People that have a problem with others using scapedolls are seriously made of failure...

I wish that scapedolls and moon atomizers where only available by finding them in missions, buying them in player shops, or synthing them, then people wouldn't blow through them like life-candy...

This game is too easy and it makes me sad when people say they die a lot due to "cheap attacks" because if you know those attacks are there, and what they do, then you should know how to avoid them/not be killed by them!!!

Also, if you have a bad internet connection and it causes you to die in dicey situations then stay out of those situations!! It's not like my internet connection is better then everyone else's, or that I'm so much better at playing this game that I never die, it's that a lot of people aren't being honest as to why they die so much and or do not know how to apply tactics to their weapon/PA selection...

As long as the system is how it is, if you don't bother buying a scapedoll, and you die a lot without saying a simple thank you when you get revived, and you also fail to buy moons, then you need to be black-listed from PSU... It's bad enough when people expect you to revive them instantly in a group, but when playing with only 2 or 3 people, the lack of scapes on missions becomes quite annoying and obvious. Being in a room with Jabs and trying to revive the only 1 or 2 players there to help without dying yourself can get tedious and annoying...

[Realmz]

you all can go to hell, my barbie is pretty D:

[HFlowen]

^Thank god someone other than myself made a doll joke, I thought no one got it...>.>

[Nobo]

I'm on 360 and the scape dolls are making me poor! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_beer.gif

[Realmz]

On 2007-07-26 14:56, HFlowen wrote:
^Thank god someone other than myself made a doll joke, I thought no one got it...>.>



wait you made a doll joke? I'm sorry i didn't really even read the thread.

you ever set up a battle field in a wallmart using refunded GI. Joes and Barbies and what not?

[ljkkjlcm9]

I have scapes from when I solo. I also carry 10 moons around. If I don't have scapes, well I prolly haven't solo'd in awhile

THE JACKEL

[TheLOLBandit]

where is the "i play on the 360 and i still need them option"?

[Nanoframe]

On 2007-07-26 15:43, TheLOLBandit wrote:
where is the "i play on the 360 and i still need them option"?


I guess that would be the <3 dolls option

[Reipard]

when playing with only 2 or 3 people, the lack of scapes on missions becomes quite annoying and obvious. Being in a room with Jabs and trying to revive the only 1 or 2 players there to help without dying yourself can get tedious and annoying...

Indeed. But that's the nature of teamwork; it's not a beast of convenience. Gotta support the team if you want to attain that common goal.