AotI: *SPOILER* Guardian’s Colony Fate

[ZEO_X]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_NXAqyWFEs&NR=1

Towards the end it looks like Clyez City is being ejected and the colony burns up. But burns up in the atmosphere of a planet, i didn’t know it was orbiting a planet? Could it be a different guardian’s colony? Does it even look like the colony to you?

These are just theories.I think it would be an awesome twist to have out with the old and in with a new lobby in AoI but after thinking about some of the new stuff we are getting in AoI like the Club the colony might be here to stay.

What do you think?




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ZEO_X on 2007-08-05 13:29 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ZEO_X on 2007-08-05 13:49 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryna on 2007-08-05 14:07 ]</font>

[Kylie]

lolspoilers



Cylez City gets disconnected from the Colony before it goes boom, and I bet it crashes into Parum because it's closest to it from the viewing plazas.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kylie on 2007-08-05 13:29 ]</font>

[beatrixkiddo]

I bet it falls into the Ragolian nebula and becomes Pioneer 1 zomghax!

[Pentence]

Yeah i noticed this too i think it orbits parum though.I mean it is always shown in the background when you take the ppt.Also if you notice i think the place Laia and Ethan are fighting is the colony as it goes down.How awsome would that be to play through.

[DurakkenX]

you got your lingo mixed up... Core is either an engine power source or the central part... What you are seeing is the city, Clyez City, being seperated from the rest of the colony.

The colony orbits Parum....well perhaps orbit is the wrong word... The Guardians colony is stationed "near" Parum with it's bottom facing down at parum. It doesn't orbit or move from it's position relative to the three planets.

below is how the planets and colony are stationed, shown in the opening scenes of PSU.
"-" mean blank space, and each of the 4 places are represented by their initials. The Gurhal sun is off on a 45 degree angle from between parum and neudaiz. Also the way the planets are can only be synthetically made and as such the ancient civ, or a previous one before them must have moved the planets into their orbits as they can not be in that formation in any natural way.

----p----
----g----
----------
-n-------
----------
---m----

As far as the colony being blown up like that we have to assume it's either not going to effect the game much OR it doesn't take place till the end of chapter 3 because we know you can travel back and forth to the colony in at least the beta... and thus far it hasn't happened in AoI since wer'e on chapter 9...so if we assume AoI has 12 chapters there are it wont happen till 11 or 12 if it happens in AoI

[Chaobo99]

It looks like theyre fighting in a burned up renzom city.

[Parn]

On 2007-08-05 13:44, DurakkenX wrote:
you got your lingo mixed up...

*snip*

we have to assume it's either not going to effect the game much
Since we're in the business of correcting everyone else, the word you're looking for is "affect". We wouldn't want to use the wrong lingo around here, now would we?

[Helly]

Clyze isn't the only city on the colony! Anyway I think that may just be a cutscene from chapter 4(?) where they go to detach the residential zone because of the monsters being released from the testing labs.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Helly on 2007-08-05 14:02 ]</font>

[Para]

im pretty sure the residential block is just a part of clyez city.

[DurakkenX]

there are also apparently different areas to the city as Ethan and Lumia grew up in the bumpkin district it seems or at least that the impression we get from all the conversations...

parn, as far as effect and affect, i forget the difference but from what i do remember it's not much difference at all. it's one of those words that when i use it in a scholarly manor I go and look it up, but always forget it afterwards. If it's wrong then I guess your right since I'm not going to look it up.

[Sinue_v2]

Er, Cylez is the only city on the colony. Although it's not the only place that people live. At least, if you take into consideration Ep 2 Chapter 4 where the "Residential Blocks" are threatened with separation in order to keep the SeeD from infesting further.

As for the Guardian Colony's orbit - it orbits the sun. It's not perpetually near any planet to the best of my knowladge. AFAIK, the reason why the planets seem so close together is because in offline storyline mode the planets had a sort of conjuntion called the Unification Point - which only happens once in a very great while. I would assume at least every 300 years, since it's well beyond the scope of the lifetimes of anyone in Gurhal - including casts who are known to be very old. Though the more likely timeframe is every 800-1,200 years considering the Millenial cycle which is predominant within the Phantasy Star franchise. (PSI, II, IV, and PSO all took place roughly 1,000 years apart, assuming the AW and AUW calendars overlap) When you see the planets up close, it simply means they haven't moved away from each other yet.

As far as it effecting the game - it shouldn't really. Cylez city survives - which is where pretty much everything you experience in the GC takes place is. They would just have to swap out the background picture of the GC with a picture of Cylez floating by itself. The GC's crash will likely cause widespread damage and destruction to Parum - but not close to Holtez city. Remember that Parum is covered in dense cities. Holtez is only one of them. They could effectually destory over 1/2 of the planet - and still leave Holtez and Raffon relatively unscathed. Even parts of Mellvore could be further destoryed - and we'd never be able to tell the difference since we only ever see the subterranean A-Photon reactor.

The other option is, of course, to allow players to choose which scenario they want when they log in... allowing players both a pre- and post-apocalyptic world to explore. Wasn't FFXI set up this way, in that you could enter the destoryed cities of Windhurst, Bastok, and San'doria or not depending on weither or not you were wanting to play the Dynamis campagins? I never made it that far, personally. Game sucked.

And finally, I think the Guardian Colony will be destoryed as a finale to Ep II - the current online story missions. Most of the FMV's we've seen in the previews can be additions to the parts of the current storyline in areas the player character doesn't directly witness - such as Leo's squad besieged by SeeD at the Hive leading up to his injury. Also, the Sochee explosion out in the middle of the Moatoob wastes which seems to be a re-envisioning of the what we've already seen.

Somehow, I doubt that the Ep III online missions will have FMV cutscenes - just as the current online story doesn't have FMV.

Not to mention that the falling of the Guardian Colony is an omage to the fall of Gaira which destoryed Palma in Phantasy Star II. It's fitting that the event be portrayed in Ep II - expecially since it leaves a cliffhanger ending to encourage people to buy AoI if they enjoyed the storyline and want to know what happens next.

[EspioKaos]

I've been thinking that SonicTeam might pull an "Egg Carrier II" on us, and a new GUARDIANS Colony will be pulled out of thin air so that Clyez can be connected to it. Maybe the GUARDIANS keep a spare on one of the planets? You know, for just such an emergency. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[DurakkenX]

#1. Clyez COULD be the only city and most likely is, but as far as we know it has not been stated whether it is or is not. More than likely there are districts if there is only one city.

#2. Don't tell people things that you haven't looked into. The Guardian's Colony is in a relational position between all 3 planets orbiting the sun (note the wording). It is just outside of Parum's atmosphere and if you were to use earth city maps as a reference point for how big it is, it is about the size of a very large city, such as detroit, pittsburgh, new york, etc....

#3. The planets orbit each other as this is the only possible way for their technology and positioning to work effectively. originally I thought they all orbited the star on their own orbits, but based on the visuals we are given and their technology this is not so. They have an orbit around each other that places them into the shape of an equilateral triangle every 10,000 years, which took place in 9,900BA and AC 0100.

#4. The oldest known casts are around 200 years old, but those that old have problems which manifests itself much like narcilepsy

#5. Dynamis if memory recalls either took place in another dimension or something to that effect. It wasn't time traveling or allowing you to go to after an apocalypse. More or less it was an attack on the cities and were done in the manner they were so that it didn't interfere with other players as dynamis was supposed to be an attack, not a permanent thing.

[Sinue_v2]

Christ, I hope not. I'd rather see some real consequences and some real tragedy, not some forgettable events which are glazed over in the next episode as if nothing ever happened. It's like watching a TV show where no matter how screwed up things get - at the end of the hour, the hero wins and everything is perfectly back to normal. Lame.

[Sinue_v2]

The Guardian's Colony is in a relational position between all 3 planets orbiting the sun (note the wording).

Relational is a vague term. There is no meaning behind it aside from the implication that there is meaning to it. Without details, which aren't provided, you really can't determine what that relationship is.

Also, it's never stated - to the best of my knowladge - that the Guardian Colony is stationed perpetually around Parum's orbit. You can see by observation of distances that Parum is the planet it's closest to right now.

Further - since Earth isn't present in PSU, you cannot determine the size of the Guardian Colony by it's relationship to Earth. A more accurate determnation of the GC's size is to look at the buildings within Cylez itself and make an approximation on how many stories tall that building is. Then use that as your measuring stick.


The planets orbit each other as this is the only possible way for their technology and positioning to work effectively.

No, it's not. First off, this is a fantasy game. It can work however Sonic Team decides it works. As a point of fact - the entire PPT transport system is a reference to the jumpgates from CowBoy Bebop. If you look closely, you'll find that PSU is littered with popular anime references - including the (slightly modified) line from Ghost in the Shell "The Net is Vast and Infinate".

Now, Cowboy Bebop is set in our solar system - and you know that our planets do not orbit each other - and they are not presented that way in the anime. Yet their jumpgate system functions properly reguardless of the planet's orbital positions. Why? Because it's a damn anime.

Further - the planets of Gurhal are numbered by their distance from the sun. Parum is the first planet. Newdaiz is the second planet. Moatoob is the third. This is explicitly stated in the game.


every 10,000 years, which took place in 9,900BA and AC 0100.

It's never stated exactly what length of time of occurs between each Unification Point. You cannot assume that the period is 10,000 years based on the activation of the Gates of Denikaya simply because between the time of the ancient civilization's destruction and the time of PSU - nobody was around (or at least, nobody with the knowladge necessary) to activate the Gates.

As said, while it's also an assumption - the 1,000 year interval is by far the more likely candidate simply because the franchise puts so much of an emphesis on the millenial cycle.


but those that old have problems which manifests itself much like narcilepsy

Actually, they sporatically crash and have to reboot their systems. It's called ICS (Instant Crash Syndrome). Although not all old casts get this affliction - and there are some casts older than 200.

[Kismet]

No, you're all wrong. At the end, the whole universe explodes. Because it turns out that Clyez City was built over a massive atomic bomb forged from uranium, plutonium, and nitroglycerin. Clyez City flies into Parum, creating a galatic space quake that ends all life.

Thus, in the process, a new galaxy is created through a 'Big Bang' effect relating to the space quake. That's why Episode 3 takes place millions of years into the future, since the human civilization was reborn and life's major events repeated itself.

In this new world, the SEED is in control of everything. So this caused the story to be reversed. You'd then have a choice of being a Seed Defender, which is the 'good' side, and conquer any and all who oppose the SEED's mighty will. Or you can be a Guardian, which is the 'bad' side, and destroy the SEED.

The planets become reversed as well. Moatoob is the new Neudaiz, Neudaiz is the new Parum, and Parum is the new Moatoob. Clyez City is now Zelyc Zone and is part of the Seed Defender Orbital Base (SDOB).

[DurakkenX]

The vector tracks are not jump gates.

Jump gates are where you have one gate in one place and one in another place and then when a ship passes between one they are shot are incredible speeds, warps, teleported, enter slipstream, or any other number of things that results in you being sent to the other jump gate.

Vector Tracks are system of physically connected rings that generate some sort of warped space that allows the ship to go faster than usual. These rings extend from the station to each planet. they do not grow or shrink and they are all connected thus the relative distances between each planet must remain the same.

The planets are ALWAYS shown on the same side of the sun meaning that they have the same or close enough to the same orbital speed as each other and we see it multiple times throughout the year.

Together these 2 points show that the planets are orbiting together and are a triplanetary system of some sort AND that the distances between the planets are all equal. This is the only logical way for the system to be set up.

The "numbering" you refer to has NOTHING to do with distance from the sun, but rather the order in which they were populated.

As far as comparing sizes, actually there is an easy way. The sun in the gurhal system is the same type as Sol, meaning that one can do a measurement if you really wanted to, BUT i was speaking as if you saying as in...an orange is to an apple as a grape is to a cherry. It's not a direct measurement but a relative size. If Parum was Earth then the GC would be as big as one of the cities i mentioned, thus is Parum is smaller the GC would be smaller or if it was bigger the GC woulkd be bigger. It's not hard to figure out.

Now beyond that...using "it's a game" is lame and throws out any explanation one can give despite it being right or wrong. The rule of thumb is that all things work as they would in reality unless otherwise stated when dealing with any fiction. As far as one can see my explanation is correct, until ST comes up with their own version it is what works.

the 10,000 year thing...guess what, it is stated. I believe that the quote even is "The planets only align themselves in the proper way every 10,000 years" I haven't played that chapter in a year but I know it is directly stated several times.

Name a CAST older than 183 that you have direct knowledge of.

[burninglink5]

New colony? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[HaydenX]

As I recall, the word they use is "aeon." an aeon is 10,000 years.

[Sinue_v2]

Yes, they are connected. However, there is a missing step because the planets orbits most certainly are not stable with one another. The very fact that there is a unification point at all proves that - because if they were all in orbits synchonized enough to allow the vector track as you're describing it - then they would be in a state of perpetual unification. This most certainly is not the case, as we even SEE the planets moving into position during chapter 11.


Also, the planets are not always on the same side of the sun. Again, the Unification point shows them as being on equally opposite sides of the sun. While I will agree that the planets do have a close orbit to each other in compairison to our own solar system - or even Algol - the planets likely orbit on different axis and/or have more eliptical orbits.

Either way - the planets cannot have static orbits in relation to one another.

So no, the orbits are not synchronous. Now that I'm on the PC version, on my next playthrough I'll be sure to take a screencap of the HAL reports - as I believe the orbits may be shown there in the background.

As for the Gurhal sun - it's color is not an exact measurement of size or mass. It's only approximately similar - but there's a wide variance in mass (relatively speaking) between the boundries of the orange stars and the white stars (yellow-white falls in the middle). If there is even so much as a 1% difference in mass between the Gurhal sun and Sol - then it's going to throw the measurements off by quite a bit. It would be easier to measure the GC against something else that is within the game. As said, a building or something would do well enough.

As for "it's just a game" - that argument is valid enough. Unlike reality, Sonic Team looks to astetics to make the game more attrative and "Sci-Fi"-ish. There's not a lot of thought put into explaining the intricacies of physics or technology in PSU - as the most common explanation for anything in the game is "lol, Photons did it". If you want to make a theory, then make it on information that is expressly stated in the game. If you want to fill in the blanks, with real-world examples - then that's fine. But it comes with the caveat that it cannot be proven "true" until the fantasy writers expressly state such is the case. They are a temporary crutch, not a solution.

In reguards to the numbering of the planets, for reasons stated above - I can't see that as being true. yes, they were colonized in that order - but again... with Parum being the first planet out from the sun, and Neudaiz being the second - it would make more sense that Neudaiz be populated first. Were there another relatively inhostile planet between Mars and Jupiter - it would make sence for humanity to land on Mars first before attempting to land on a planet even further out. This would hold true in Gurhal's case as well, since before the PPT was built they would have had to have traveled to the planets the long way. Fuel and supplies may have been a major concern, making colonization of Neudaiz first the smarter decision to allow for a shorter travel distance.

And finally it was 12,000 years ago that the ancient civilization dissapeared. Your estimate is well off to begin with. At least 12,000+ years ago that the gates were last activated. And there is no quote mentioning that in the game. You may have played a year ago, but I've played it several times through - just recently, actually. And I'm about ready to play through it again.

As for the 200+ year old casts - you're never introduced to one, but they're mentioned in NPC dialouge. When I find the exact quote, I'll post it.

[beatrixkiddo]

This entire thread is tl;dr

[DurakkenX]

the unification point has nothing to do with the sun...people mistake that the unification point happen around the sun, but it doesn't as shown in the actual video of it.

The planets are ALWAYS on the same side of the sun and this is shown on every image.

the planets are not in synchronous orbit, but the vector tracks probably match them in orbit so that they are always close enough to their destinations...there would be an easier way, but plenty more dangerous. and given the name wouldn't make sense.

while details are often left out the general principles are described and given what we know of photons or that we can infer about them, most of the time how something works can easily be deduced, but it's a lot easier to just leave it out and allow people like me to figure it out.

They never number the planets except when they say 'we settled here first' "we colonized here second" They never state anything about distance or where the planets are exactly located. In fact the only thing said about position is when they say that the alignment needs to be exactly like this...they don't even mention the alignment exactly.

As for the civ and your dating... you are wrong on both accounts... the civ disapeared 11,000-6,000 years ago. but is said to have died out 12,000 years ago...the unification point is said to happen every 10,000 years...even though for some reason in my timeline, which is the most accurate one, though not up to date anymore, says that the unification point happened 9,500 years ago, and then 10,000 years before that...

Also...in game and official time lines are a bit different... for example according to in game CASTs took over Parum in AC0000, but according to the official timeline it was in BA 10, and took most offices in BA 90...Which do you think is right?

[Helly]

On 2007-08-05 15:45, Sinue_v2 wrote:
Er, Cylez is the only city on the colony.


Room Tutorial

NPC Partner: "The residential area of the GUARDIANS Colony contains many cities like this one."

[ZEO_X]

On 2007-08-05 13:59, Parn wrote:

On 2007-08-05 13:44, DurakkenX wrote:
you got your lingo mixed up...

*snip*

we have to assume it's either not going to effect the game much
Since we're in the business of correcting everyone else, the word you're looking for is "affect". We wouldn't want to use the wrong lingo around here, now would we?



Thank you Sexy.

[KTani]

On 2007-08-05 21:23, Helly wrote:

Room Tutorial

NPC Partner: "The residential area of the GUARDIANS Colony contains many cities like this one."



I've always taken that as an in-character explanation for servers. Note that they're "identical". (Leo, at least, says they're identical) Clyez takes up the whole of the blue dome seen from outside the colony. There are no other blue domes of that size, thus no identical cities.

[A2K]

Perhaps when they say "city" they mean something more along the lines of a borough within the dome itself. There are other areas with identical central tables, shopping malls, and linear line platforms (but lacking a PPT spaceport and, of course, Guardians HQ).