WT + Har Quick + Gizonde +Madoog = Radius SE3 Shock huricane

[Kimil]

I'm still looking at the possibilities oh lvl 30 Attack Spells on my WT Chiyo come AoI... and got me thinking... What about Gizonde?

Gizonde lvl 30 can hit up to 6 targets with the chance of lvl 3 Shock right? Well... How effective is this? Like... how often does it shock ( minor enemies )? Compared to to Cross-bows, how effective is it at applying SEs?

Now, I realize that the cast time is long... So how were Gi-spells casted with a Madoog?
And how much more affective is Gizonde at aplying schock with Me/quick and Har/Quick?

With Madoogs, Har/quick or Me/quick and the 6 enemies affected per cast... can I applies Shock better than a Crossbow?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-08-05 18:47 ]</font>

[HaydenX]

You could do it even faster as an AT come AoI.

[Kimil]

AT doesn't Get speed bost for anything but Twin Daggers =/

[Dj_SkyEpic]

Gizonde with Har/Quick using a Madoog would be very fast indeed.

Also causing flinch per cast and the possibilities of level 4 SE at level 31.

Har/Quick and a Gi tech on a wand would cast every 1~ second, so a Madoog would make it a lot faster. Shock doesn't apply as fast with Gi techs but you get results the more you cast it.

Edit: Oh wait, you're talking about WT @_@

Well... You'll still be able to cast a lot faster than a wand with Har / Quick, so yes. Go for it but the SE will not apply instantly like you'd think.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dj_SkyEpic on 2007-08-05 18:57 ]</font>

[Kimil]

Thanks DJ!

I thought spells weren't getting any higher SE at 31+ =/
Wouldn't that invade Gunner Territory? -.- and make my hopes of having some use with attack techs die? ;_;

[HaydenX]

Everything I've read has said that ATs cast at the same speed as everyone else with a me / quick.

If that isn't true...wtf is the point of going AT?

[Kimil]

Highest Support Techs
unlike FTs, they have acces to Madoogs
S rank Madoogs
S rank Whips
Higher ATA than FT, so they can ACTUALLY use S rank Cards
Twin Dagger Speed Boost

[Dj_SkyEpic]

On 2007-08-05 18:56, Kimil wrote:
Thanks DJ!

I thought spells weren't getting any higher SE at 31+ =/
Wouldn't that invade Gunner Territory? -.- and make my hopes of having some use with attack techs die? ;_;

I've seen somewhere that Dam techs are getting level 4 SE such as Dambarta. But dambarta will be getting it's flinch side effect removed, so it's basically going to rely on the SE.

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-08-05 18:57, HaydenX wrote:
Everything I've read has said that ATs cast at the same speed as everyone else with a me / quick.

If that isn't true...wtf is the point of going AT?


because they cast at that same speed as everyone else with a me / quick...... wait for it.... without one!

[Xaeris]

Well, they are still the second strongest casters and share the highest support tech level. A wartecher that's spent their pre-AoI time supporting more often than all out melee'ing would still find a nice home in the class, I suppose.

And I don't believe it's known for certain that techs get a status upgrade at 31+. Skills don't receive extensions and bullets don't upgrade so consistency seems to suggest that techs just get more powerful and get their new animations. I mean, let's face it; Lv 4 Burn in a ridiculously wide radius would just be freaking imba.

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-08-05 19:00, Kimil wrote:
Highest Support Techs
unlike FTs, they have acces to Madoogs
S rank Madoogs
S rank Whips
Higher ATA than FT, so they can ACTUALLY use S rank Cards
Twin Dagger Speed Boost



Highest support techs? You've been out of the loop my friend. And why can't I use s rank cards again?

[Kimil]

On 2007-08-05 19:06, Octagon wrote:

On 2007-08-05 19:00, Kimil wrote:
Highest Support Techs
unlike FTs, they have acces to Madoogs
S rank Madoogs
S rank Whips
Higher ATA than FT, so they can ACTUALLY use S rank Cards
Twin Dagger Speed Boost



Highest support techs? You've been out of the loop my friend. And why can't I use s rank cards again?



I know that AT lost its lvl 50 Support Techs, but I'm betting FT wont get 40 anymore either.

And S rank Cards? The ATA Requirements are ridiculous for a class who's max ATA mod is 60%.

I could've Equip My Deva at level... 30?
My Shi-kikami... I would still be around 30 ATA off by lvl 100/10 FT

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-08-05 19:03, Xaeris wrote:
Well, they are still the second strongest casters and share the highest support tech level. A wartecher that's spent their pre-AoI time supporting more often than all out melee'ing would still find a nice home in the class, I suppose.

And I don't believe it's known for certain that techs get a status upgrade at 31+. Skills don't receive extensions and bullets don't upgrade so consistency seems to suggest that techs just get more powerful and get their new animations. I mean, let's face it; Lv 4 Burn in a ridiculously wide radius would just be freaking imba.


omg what is it with this post! since when do bullets not upgrade?!!

[HaydenX]

On 2007-08-05 19:01, Octagon wrote:

On 2007-08-05 18:57, HaydenX wrote:
Everything I've read has said that ATs cast at the same speed as everyone else with a me / quick.

If that isn't true...wtf is the point of going AT?


because they cast at that same speed as everyone else with a me / quick...... wait for it.... without one!



That's what I remember reading and hearing multiple times. If you add a me / quick or Har / quick, they would assumingly cast even faster.

[Kimil]

On 2007-08-05 19:09, Octagon wrote:

On 2007-08-05 19:03, Xaeris wrote:
Well, they are still the second strongest casters and share the highest support tech level. A wartecher that's spent their pre-AoI time supporting more often than all out melee'ing would still find a nice home in the class, I suppose.

And I don't believe it's known for certain that techs get a status upgrade at 31+. Skills don't receive extensions and bullets don't upgrade so consistency seems to suggest that techs just get more powerful and get their new animations. I mean, let's face it; Lv 4 Burn in a ridiculously wide radius would just be freaking imba.


omg what is it with this post! since when do bullets not upgrade?!!



Bullets and Melee have been reported to not get any boost lvl 31+

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

This topic is stupid.

Why use Gizonde to apply shock when an electric-element whip will do the same thing and more damage?

[Kimil]

Whips Aren't Left Hand Equipable

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-08-05 19:24, Kimil wrote:
Whips Aren't Left Hand Equipable

And? They'll likely do much more damage than Gizonde, which is what really matters. Let the ranged classes take care of SEs, that's not a WT's job.

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-08-05 19:09, Kimil wrote:

On 2007-08-05 19:06, Octagon wrote:

On 2007-08-05 19:00, Kimil wrote:
Highest Support Techs
unlike FTs, they have acces to Madoogs
S rank Madoogs
S rank Whips
Higher ATA than FT, so they can ACTUALLY use S rank Cards
Twin Dagger Speed Boost



Highest support techs? You've been out of the loop my friend. And why can't I use s rank cards again?



I know that AT lost its lvl 50 Support Techs, but I'm betting FT wont get 40 anymore either.

[b]i'll take that bet

And S rank Cards? The ATA Requirements are ridiculous for a class who's max ATA mod is 60%.

I could've Equip My Deva at level... 30?
My Shi-kikami... I would still be around 30 ATA off by lvl 100/10 FT
[b]what race are you and, don't you plan to lvl up to 200/20 or whatever the class cap goes to?

[HaydenX]

Why would it matter in which hand you equip whips. Wands = right hand
madoogs = left.

Use whip with madoog.
Simple logic http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HaydenX on 2007-08-05 19:30 ]</font>

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-08-05 19:30, HaydenX wrote:
Why would it matter in which hand you equip whips. Wands = right hand
madoogs = left.

Use whip with madoog.
Simple logic http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Except the whip will make Gizonde pointless, so the Madoog should have something like Resta/Reverser on it. Maybe debuffs, if the GT/AT/fT in the party is too lazy to cast them.

[Kimil]

SE application... not Damage Dealing....
Whips didn't Get SE 3 Shock Right?
And I know SE 3 Shock isn't our Job, but NOTHING is, NOTHING we do is better than any other class.

Melee: Beaten by FF
Medic: FT beats us
Ranged: Beaten By Everyone But FF
SE application: Beaten by Rangers and Proransers
Attack Spells: no brainer here
Buff/Debuff: FT, hell even Rangers with Dualies

Our specialty is we can do ALL of the above.
Including casual SEs come AoI, I'm not going to focus on SEs of course, just do them on occation with a side mag then tare everything up with a single dagger.

Plan:
1) Enter Battle Area with 6+ Enemies in it
2) Cast lvl 30 Gizonde or Gibarta 4 times to inflict SEs to stop their attack ability ( defencive move )
3) Deal damage with dagger



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-08-05 19:36 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kimil on 2007-08-05 19:37 ]</font>

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-08-05 19:35, Kimil wrote:
SE application... not Damage Dealing....
Whips didn't Get SE 3 Shock Right?
And I know SE 3 Shock isn't our Job, but NOTHING is, NOTHING we do is better than any other class.
I'm not sure what SE level the whips applied, but I know that its PA, like Gizonde, hit 6 targets.


And yes, WT does have a job. The job of a WT is to heal, buff if needed, and kill things. Trying to do anything else (like reliably applying SEs) wastes time that is better spent killing things.



If you're soloing, then sure, go ahead and try to immobilize enemies so you can easily smack them around. That sounds like a good strategy.

But in a party? Don't bother, if you melee from the get-go, the things will be dead before the time your SEs would have stuck in a reliable fashion. That, and practically any other class (except fF) can apply better SEs than you more quickly.

[Miyoko]

On 2007-08-05 19:35, Kimil wrote:
SE application... not Damage Dealing....
Whips didn't Get SE 3 Shock Right?
And I know SE 3 Shock isn't our Job, but NOTHING is, NOTHING we do is better than any other class.


You sound like a WoW playing >>

I think the fact that you CAN do EVERYTHING is reason
enough for you not to be the best at anything. Isn't that the point of a hybrid? You're the best at doing multiple tasks. You're supposed to fill whatever area your team is most lacking in. That's your job.

[Rashiid]

no forte-PP cut from WT + Lv30 Gi-tech = Madoog runs out in 2 seconds.

[SolomonGrundy]

whips may not outdamage gizonde.

a) gizonde goes not miss
b) whip ATP might suck, and the PA might have a low modifier.
c) me/quick - there is not /battle units in PSU

[Xaeris]

At the moment, all we can really do is theorycraft, but it seems to me that the purpose of a madoog is to allow us to do what the fighgunners have been doing since day 1; facilitate the use of our secondary ability (casting) while still being open to melee on a half second's notice. If the enemies aren't grouped up quite right to make good use of a skill, you can usually see a fighgunner firing their mech or crossbow while the one in back shambles forward into the skill's effect range, when they pounce.

Us, we don't have that option. These little windows where an area wide tech would fill in time are very small and generally don't stay open long enough to swap to a wand. But now, we can just hit R1 and make with the Gi-tech while waiting that second or two for a pair of enemies to line up properly.

It's entirely possible that it won't work out the way I imagine it. Still, discounting the possibility and calling a thread inquiring on it stupid is just plain ignorant.

[Soukosa]

Gizonde + Madoog = No PP left to do anything. They have a bit over half the PP of wands, they weren't meant for such techs >.>



On 2007-08-05 18:51, Kimil wrote:
AT doesn't Get speed bost for anything but Twin Daggers =/

aF and aT get a shorter delay on ALL melee attacks. Why do old incorrect things continue to float around on here? >.>

[Arika]

On 2007-08-05 18:52, Dj_SkyEpic wrote:
Gizonde with Har/Quick using a Madoog would be very fast indeed.

Also causing flinch per cast and the possibilities of level 4 SE at level 31.

Har/Quick and a Gi tech on a wand would cast every 1~ second, so a Madoog would make it a lot faster. Shock doesn't apply as fast with Gi techs but you get results the more you cast it.

Edit: Oh wait, you're talking about WT @_@

Well... You'll still be able to cast a lot faster than a wand with Har / Quick, so yes. Go for it but the SE will not apply instantly like you'd think.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dj_SkyEpic on 2007-08-05 18:57 ]</font>



I saw the picture of Gizonde lv 31+, they don't get SE 4, http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-08-06 02:28, Sounomi wrote:
Gizonde + Madoog = No PP left to do anything. They have a bit over half the PP of wands, they weren't meant for such techs >.>



On 2007-08-05 18:51, Kimil wrote:
AT doesn't Get speed bost for anything but Twin Daggers =/

aF and aT get a shorter delay on ALL melee attacks. Why do old incorrect things continue to float around on here? >.>



According to Durakken, all of the stupid rumors come from the 360 servers...

[JAFO22000]

On 2007-08-06 02:28, Sounomi wrote:
Gizonde + Madoog = No PP left to do anything. They have a bit over half the PP of wands, they weren't meant for such techs >.>



On 2007-08-05 18:51, Kimil wrote:
AT doesn't Get speed bost for anything but Twin Daggers =/

aF and aT get a shorter delay on ALL melee attacks. Why do old incorrect things continue to float around on here? >.>



According to Durakken, all of the stupid rumors come from the 360 servers...

[Stezan]

It sounds like it would be a good combination. If Gi-techs do in fact end up costing too much to be worth using with mags, then you could also try using Razonde instead. With lv 21+, it has a nice radius of attack, is stronger than a gi-tech, and costs less.

[Nani-chan]

I'd think with a wand + madoog with a same spell on each alternating might get closer to what a rod could do. Specially with both weapons recovering PP at same time.

I'd admit it's not what a ft can do since: Rods can have a +12% (great for damubarta), FT has the higher TP and will get lvl 31-40 attack techs.