Ageha-kikami with Ageha-Senba?

[RedMussel]

How much of a advantege will it give?

[Mayu]

+64 ATA, +56 ATP and +18DFP

I think o.0

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mayu on 2007-08-19 03:29 ]</font>

[RedMussel]

Thats actully relly good wats FP?

[SaiSpagS]

Thats +18 DFP, not +180 FP which you might think...

[jayster]

I remember hearing someone say that the combo was really bad. Personally I havent tried it out yet.

[DonRoyale]

As a newman Guntecher, the combo adds about 45 points of damage (unbuffed)

Any combo is really worth it if you ask me. =D

[HaydenX]

Whether or not it's worth it to you depends upon your need for decent armor...and how many ageha-kikamis you actually have. I personally found it to be more useful to have Hoza-Senba for the huge overall defense difference. Also, I like to use rifles too, and the combo just isn't worth it unless cards are all you use...Agea-senba sucks. I ended up switching to Gigaline with a power-enhancing unit. That makes a difference on every weapon.

[CelestialBlade]

Yamata-senba with a Mira-kikami and a Mega/Power > Ageha-senba with a Ageha-kikami.

[bloodflowers]

Ageha-Senba being a B class is really limiting. For Fortetechers it prohibits A rank units such as Har/Quick and the Puyoment Aura, for Guntechers it prohibits A class SUVs, HPC/SPS and so on. My techer has a Hard/Power Charge, does a much better job.

[Powder Keg]

On 2007-08-19 10:23, Typheros wrote:
Yamata-senba with a Mira-kikami and a Mega/Power > Ageha-senba with a Ageha-kikami.


He speaks the truth.



The Ageha combo is alright for a guntecher at a low level, otherwise it isn't worth it.

[Zoamel_Gustav]

On 2007-08-19 11:04, Artea wrote:

On 2007-08-19 10:23, Typheros wrote:
Yamata-senba with a Mira-kikami and a Mega/Power > Ageha-senba with a Ageha-kikami.


He speaks the truth.



Yamata-senba with a Mira-kikami and a Mega/Power < Ageha-senba with a Ageha-kikami.

Here are my old posts from the topic How effective is the Ageha-Kikami Weapon/armor set? (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=140203&forum=22) Note that by now the number of available a rank units has increased. Anyways here are some relevant stats:

Mira-kikami + Yamata-senba + Mega/Power =
ATP 243, ATA 286, DFP 170,

Ageha-kikami + Ageha-senba =
ATP 281, ATA 322, DFP 93,

Yamata-senba reqs DFP: 66
A rank head, body, arm slots

Ageha-senba reqs DFP: 20
B rank head, body, extra slots

The Ageha set has higher ATP and ATA then a Mira-kikami with Mega/Power. A difference of 77 DFP is only 16 points of damage reduction per attack, elements don't change this.

A rank body units are rare Orpads or Resists only. Mega/rainbow is a cheap B rank unit. No Arm unit out does +64 ATA, +56 ATP and +18DFP at no PP cost. B rank Extra units mean SUV or STA +3. Rare A rank head units are tech based.

I don't know how much a Yamata-senba costs, but it's much more than an Ageha-senba of the same element percentage. I've seen neutral Ageha-senbas for under 4k and 20% for 20k. The Ageha-senba is wearable much sooner and easier to synth.

So:

More ATP, ATA, extra slot, cheap Mega/Rainbow, affordable B rank head unit with a cheaper to synth/buy/grind, easier to wear, Ageha set usable after buying these cheap items. (Better or equal stats from easy to get items.)

Or:

Less ATP, ATA, no extra slot, 16 more damage resistance from a more expensive to synth/buy/grind, harder to wear, Mira-kikamis and Yamata-senba after hunting for rare A rank head unit and rare A rank arm unit and rare A rank body unit. (Equal or worse stats from harder to get items.)

[Dragwind]

I suppose it would be a good combo if one didn't have better equipment. I'd say higher tier equipment outshines it though.

[Zoamel_Gustav]

On 2007-08-19 12:59, Dragwind wrote:
I suppose it would be a good combo if one didn't have better equipment. I'd say higher tier equipment outshines it though.
I'm saying higher tier equipment doesn't outshine the Ageha set.

Due to how damage is calculated, element percentages mean a few DFP and MST points is negligible. Being cheaper means it's easier to make higher elements. For stats, I'd rather use a Mega/rainbow than use an orpad or resist unit.

I rather use a SUV or STA +3 than none. No Arm unit out does +64 ATA, +56 ATP and +18DFP at no PP cost.

Only rare hunted A rank head units outshine B rank head units which were fine until then. Otherwise the cheaper items outshine the rarer ones and saves time for other things.

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-08-19 05:41, SaiSpagS wrote:
Thats +18 DFP, not +180 FP which you might think...


No, FP stands for Frapachino Power!

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-08-19 13:19, Zoamel_Gustav wrote:

On 2007-08-19 12:59, Dragwind wrote:
I suppose it would be a good combo if one didn't have better equipment. I'd say higher tier equipment outshines it though.
I'm saying higher tier equipment doesn't outshine the Ageha set.

Due to how damage is calculated, element percentages mean a few DFP and MST points is negligible. Being cheaper means it's easier to make higher elements. For stats, I'd rather use a Mega/rainbow than use an orpad or resist unit.

I rather use a SUV or STA +3 than none. No Arm unit out does +64 ATA, +56 ATP and +18DFP at no PP cost.

Only rare hunted A rank head units outshine B rank head units which were fine until then. Otherwise the cheaper items outshine the rarer ones and saves time for other things.



No Arm unit outdoes +56 ATP? Are you kidding?

[Jaden_Korr]

Alone it might,not with the other perks though

[FUFME]

I synthed a few of those armors but the element % was too low, so I sold them



>>>>> Trading 2 Headed Ragnus 24% FIRE for 10* Bow <<<<< (http://pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=151765&forum=2&0)

[HaydenX]

Again, these big boosts only matter if the card is your main DD. I can tell you from experience that the xbow is better than the card. The rifle is great at keeping enemies at bay, which the card doesn't do. seriously, do yourself a favor and just don't bother with Ageha-Senba unless you are a low lvl.

[beatrixkiddo]

Er, he didn't say no Arm unit outdoes +56 ATP. He said No Arm unit outdoes +64 ATA AND +56 ATP AND +18DFP with no PP penalty to boot.

[Zoamel_Gustav]

On 2007-08-19 15:15, Typheros wrote:
No Arm unit outdoes +56 ATP? Are you kidding?

The quote is:


On 2007-08-19 13:19, Zoamel_Gustav wrote:
No Arm unit out does +64 ATA, +56 ATP and +18DFP at no PP cost.

The bonus raises both ATP and ATA with no extra PP cost. That's practically almost like a "Cati / Knight" unit. It's also a free slotless Stella / Guard unit but DFP is negligible.


On 2007-08-19 19:05, HaydenX wrote:
Again, these big boosts only matter if the card is your main DD. I can tell you from experience that the xbow is better than the card. The rifle is great at keeping enemies at bay, which the card doesn't do. seriously, do yourself a favor and just don't bother with Ageha-Senba unless you are a low lvl.

For a Fortetecher, your cards and bow are your only source of non technic damage and your only current source of light element damage. (Other than a handgun.) For a Wartecher, your cards and bow are your only source of ranged damage. (Other than a handgun.)

Bows are SE4 inflicters which ignore DFP. This means you never have to overcome a creature's DFP to deal damage and thus inflict SE4. Bow shots can be evaded but never rendered immune to.

Damage dealing from bows leaves you with out the mobility of cards. You lose the quick access to a wand that offhand cards offer as well. For these two types, if you use a wand, your offhand will have to carry a card, handgun or be empty.

For a Guntecher, I find cards and crossbows to be about equal. They both have the mobility that rifles and bows can't offer because they are long range weapons with no need to place one self in danger. The mobility means you don't need to keep them at bay. At long range, and without a ready wand, techs will become that much more difficult.

Both cards and crossbows are offhand, allowing wand use. However most techs are mid range. Cards are always mid range while crossbows require going into melee range for focused damage. For guntechers, if you use a wand, your offhand will have to carry a card, crossbow, mechgun, handgun or be empty.

Even at level 90, I still use my ageha set. If you cast resta, using cards keeps you at mid range with a wand ready, near both melee allies, and long range allies and out of reach of enemy melee attacks, and you can sidestep attacks without missing due to the homing ability.