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MelanyKoura
Aug 25, 2007, 10:01 AM
For a while I've been thinking about what spells I want/need to have/get before AoI comes out. I'm kinda looking for an expert's opinion on this, so I might be able to make a better decision. I'll even provide a spell list for my Fortetecher.

Right off the bat, don't say anything about Zonde, I'm gonna be dropping that when I can. Also keep in mind that I plan to go into Acrotecher when AoI comes out, so I want a few spare spaces for the Whip skills.


--Bow Bullets--
Ensei-sou (Fire)
Reisei-sou (Ice)
Raisei-sou (Lightning)
Jisei-sou (Earth)
Yousei-sou (Light)
Insei-sou (Dark)

--Card Bullets--
Yousei-shiki (Light)

--Spells--
Foie
Gifoie
Rafoie
Shifta
Barta
Gibarta
Rabarta
Dambarta
Deband
Zonde
Gizonde
Razonde
Zodial
Diga
Gidiga
Radiga
Resta
Reverser
Giresta
Retier
Ramegid
Megiverse

The list should total up to 29. 28 not counting Zonde, which I said I will drop.

So any recomended spell drops or pick ups from fellow Fortetechers in the know? It'd be a big help. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MelanyKoura on 2007-08-25 08:01 ]</font>

Rashiid
Aug 25, 2007, 10:10 AM
omg dont lose Zonde!

im gettin that to 30 so i can be 1st to hav it @ 31...

im dying to see it...and megid

Pillan
Aug 25, 2007, 10:13 AM
I beleive Sonic Team already confirmed a PA storage option, so rather than saving spaces for Acrotecher now, you can just deposit excess arts that the class can't use, such as the bow bullets.

You also may want to invest in Mayalee Fury, a few other card, mech, and/or twin handgun bullets, and a saber, dagger, and claw skill since AT was confirmed to be able to weild all those weapons. Most people in the AT thread seemed to prefer the defensive skills, such as Rising Strike and Shunbu, but I'm personally more in favor of high offense + resta > defense.

Anyway, good luck preparing for the class.


EDIT:

My mistake; I don't think AT can use claws.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-08-25 13:34 ]</font>

MelanyKoura
Aug 25, 2007, 10:13 AM
People keep spaming that Zonde is useless, and I'm about to agree with it. Though I have to admit, I'd like to keep the basic spells out of sentimentality.





I beleive Sonic Team already confirmed a PA storage option, so rather than saving spaces for Acrotecher now, you can just deposit excess arts that the class can't use, such as the bow bullets.

You also may want to invest in Mayalee Fury, a few other card, mech, and/or twin handgun bullets, and a saber, dagger, and claw skill since AT was confirmed to be able to weild all those weapons. Most people in the AT thread seemed to prefer the defensive skills, such as Rising Strike and Shunbu, but I'm personally more in favor of high offense + resta > defense.

Anyway, good luck preparing for the class.


But isn't the job more of a support job? I was kinda looking to focus on magic still since that's my area of expertise. I mean, I don't see my 'techer doing doing much other than spell casting, healing, buffing, and maybe sweeping away the occasional aproaching mobs with her whip.

And also, I am quite the defensive player most of the time. I jsut tend to go a little nuts with my Fighgunner... xD

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MelanyKoura on 2007-08-25 08:21 ]</font>

Rashiid
Aug 25, 2007, 10:35 AM
Zonde is actually not bad; better % modifyer then Barta (if only there were more ground enemies)...

nonetheless; Groves & Moatooby bow down to my zonde. =]

Pillan
Aug 25, 2007, 10:59 AM
On 2007-08-25 08:13, MelanyKoura wrote:
But isn't the job more of a support job? I was kinda looking to focus on magic still since that's my area of expertise. I mean, I don't see my 'techer doing doing much other than spell casting, healing, buffing, and maybe sweeping away the occasional aproaching mobs with her whip.


Well, you can do that and there’s nothing that I can really say against it. My personal preference is just to play it on my Caseal and use the high buffs to increase the melee and ranged damage, so most of my opinions on what I’d want to use would be more geared toward that play style.

Like I said, the general consensus is buff, use an attack tech, throw the mobs around when they get close, use more attack techs, and heal when necessary. You’ve got access to wands and madoogs at S rank, so the philosophy of using low cost spells is sort of thrown out of the window at this point. I’m on the opposite side of the spectrum, taking advantage of the higher speed of skills compared to techs combined with level 40 support techs and just casting Resta whenever I take more damage than I’d like.

Earlier I was just listing all the options. It’s up to you to choose how you actually want to play the class.

Dragwind
Aug 25, 2007, 12:29 PM
I think you can relax with this decision since we are supposedly getting the PA storage option.

Mayu
Aug 25, 2007, 12:30 PM
What he said http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

DonRoyale
Aug 25, 2007, 12:31 PM
As an AT, you'll want 41+ debuffs.

You'll also want more card bullets.

Umberger
Aug 25, 2007, 12:31 PM
I'm not sure if it's been said, but if you're going Acrotecher, you won't be needing those Bow bullets...seeing as how Acrotechers can't use Bows.

ljkkjlcm9
Aug 25, 2007, 12:35 PM
acrotecher is not a melee option class, so you're definitely set there. You might want a melee skill or two, but I suspect most people should use whip/madoog combo, because whip can stun enemies or what not.

Anyone who thinks this will be a useful melee class is seriously kidding themselves.
AT has second lowest ATP modifier (over FT) and second highest TP modifier (under FT)
It is NOT, I repeat NOT a melee class. I will laugh at all the cast AT's.

THE JACKEL

Pillan
Aug 25, 2007, 12:36 PM
On 2007-08-25 10:31, DonRoyale wrote:
As an AT, you'll want 41+ debuffs.

You'll also want more card bullets.



It was confirmed a while ago that AT's art cap was changed from 20/30/30/50 to 20/20/30/40, so you won't be taking advantage of 41+ support until ST decides to raise the cap to 50 for everyone else.

DonRoyale
Aug 25, 2007, 12:42 PM
It might not be the strongest class, Jackel, but the ATP of the weapons it uses will be more important, and therefore make it a...subpar at best melee class.

(Plus, there's level 31+ buffs, too...)

As a fT/GT/AT, I have planned:

Skills:

Rising Strike
Buten Shuren-zan
Renkai Buyon-zan
Hishou Jinren-zan (for style)
Whip PA

Bullets:

Ensei-sou
Reisei-sou
Raisei-sou
Insei-sou
Ensei-shiki
Reisei-shiki
Jisei-shiki
(the ice crossbow)
(the earth crossbow)
Mayalee Prism

Techs:

Foie
Rafoie
Shifta
Jellen
Barta
Rabarta
Dambarta
Deband
Zalure
Zonde
Gizonde
Noszonde
Zoldial
Zoldeel
Diga
Radiga
Nosdiga
Resta
Reverser
Retirer
Nosmegid



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DonRoyale on 2007-08-25 10:43 ]</font>

ThEoRy
Aug 25, 2007, 12:43 PM
Well, as pillan said, his opinion is based on his feelings towards his own play style. I suppose thats true for me as well. As an experienced ForteTecher, imo, you don't really need all those bow shots. Maybe it's just me, but I only have 4 bullets total. Dark and ice for both bow and cards. That's it. I have Foi capped so fire shots are kind of redundant PA wise. Same for ground shots and lightning. I can silence and shock quite well with my techs. So those shots aren't really adding anything to my repertoire either. Nosdiga however, fits nicely into my attacks because it offers something unique. 3 homing shots for massive dammage vs lightning types (varhas, volfus, polvaroah,) I highly recomend. Also I noticed you don't have damdiga aka bug spray. Another great tech vs lightning types mentioned above. especially polavoras and bees or volfu mobs. It does great damage, it has knock back and it can poison! The only other things I can say is why no debuffs? It's like double shifta/deband/zodial! People may debate me to the death on this one but the fact remains that parties with Expert Forces debuffing the mobs kill the enemies faster than those who just spam nukes. It only takes a second to debuff everything and then return to nuking. Meanwhile Fighter and Gunner types are all hitting harder and for even less zero's. Especially good for axe wielding beasts. Not to mention the def/eva advantage it gives us frail fTs. With attack debuff, what used to kill me in 2 shots would now take 5! With zodeel I am able to get the evasion blocking animation more frequently, causing me to counter attack, casting noticably faster than har / quick users! But as I said before. That is how I like to play so it's just my two MST.

Pillan
Aug 25, 2007, 01:10 PM
On 2007-08-25 10:35, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
acrotecher is not a melee option class, so you're definitely set there. You might want a melee skill or two, but I suspect most people should use whip/madoog combo, because whip can stun enemies or what not.

Anyone who thinks this will be a useful melee class is seriously kidding themselves.
AT has second lowest ATP modifier (over FT) and second highest TP modifier (under FT)
It is NOT, I repeat NOT a melee class. I will laugh at all the cast AT's.

THE JACKEL



You do realize that even though AT had the second lowest ATP in the beta, it’s only like 2-4% lower than WT right now (i.e., higher than GT). I say in the beta because I expect all of AT’s base stats to go up since they decreased the support cap to 40. Plus did you ever think about why WT only gets 20 skills right now and only 30 in AoI? It’s simple balancing really: 30 skills + 20 buffs = 40 skills. It’s basically the same concept with AT; you get 20 skills to balance the 40 buffs.

Long story short, the trade off between fF and WT is pretty much just loss of potential damage in a party. In solo, a WT with buffs is slightly less damage than fF and an AT with buffs is slightly less damage than WT. So the real trade off between WT and AT as far as the beta stats were concerned was WT had more survivability and the ability to use the 3rd move in 2 hand skills while AT had more tech damage. You’ll definitely see a gap in damage in a party, but that has more to do with the 25% ATP buff the fF is gaining than your own weakness.

If you do a comparison of AT to fT in solo, you’re basically gaining survivability and losing 30% tech damage (between lack of rods, significantly higher base TP, and 10 extra attack tech levels). That really makes me think it’s a bit closer to a hunter class in the long run than, even though it depends heavily on support techs for that power. I honestly expect most Newmans to switch back to fT once they realize how much less damage they’re dealing and the novelty of whips wears off.


Just saying I’d do a more detailed analysis before laughing about it. But, as I’ve said before, play based on your style.


Back on topic, you’ll probably want to use the close range spells to take advantage of your higher survivability. All the gi- and dam- series, Megiverse, and Regrants will be a lot of fun on that class. You’ll also be able to pull off the 1.6x damage of near death Nosmegid. And, of course, Diga and Foie are always good.


EDIT:

I forgot to add that using anything other than the basic techs on a Madoog will make Sounomi cry, so you may want to invest in Zonde and Barta.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-08-25 11:14 ]</font>

RegulusHikari
Aug 25, 2007, 01:18 PM
On 2007-08-25 08:13, Pillan wrote:
Mayalee Fury



...ATs are getting Machine guns??

Pillan
Aug 25, 2007, 01:22 PM
On 2007-08-25 11:18, RegulusHikari wrote:
...ATs are getting Machine guns??


Yeah. A while ago ST announced AT gained mechs and S wands but lost 30 bullets, 50 support, and S twin daggers.

You can probably dig that post up somewhere in this section of the forum. I'm too lazy to find it.

RegulusHikari
Aug 25, 2007, 01:35 PM
On 2007-08-25 11:22, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-08-25 11:18, RegulusHikari wrote:
...ATs are getting Machine guns??


Yeah. A while ago ST announced AT gained mechs and S wands but lost 30 bullets, 50 support, and S twin daggers.

You can probably dig that post up somewhere in this section of the forum. I'm too lazy to find it.



Ah. I believe you, I just thought you threw that in accidentally and meant something else. Wow. Not sure why AT is getting mechs over AF.

It's really too bad that in order to use S rank of any of the new weapon types, I'd have to throw any versatility I had out the window. The Acro classes really aren't interesting me very much.

Shiro_Ryuu
Aug 25, 2007, 01:46 PM
On 2007-08-25 11:10, Pillan wrote:

On 2007-08-25 10:35, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
acrotecher is not a melee option class, so you're definitely set there. You might want a melee skill or two, but I suspect most people should use whip/madoog combo, because whip can stun enemies or what not.

Anyone who thinks this will be a useful melee class is seriously kidding themselves.
AT has second lowest ATP modifier (over FT) and second highest TP modifier (under FT)
It is NOT, I repeat NOT a melee class. I will laugh at all the cast AT's.

THE JACKEL



You do realize that even though AT had the second lowest ATP in the beta, it’s only like 2-4% lower than WT right now (i.e., higher than GT). I say in the beta because I expect all of AT’s base stats to go up since they decreased the support cap to 40. Plus did you ever think about why WT only gets 20 skills right now and only 30 in AoI? It’s simple balancing really: 30 skills + 20 buffs = 40 skills. It’s basically the same concept with AT; you get 20 skills to balance the 40 buffs.

Long story short, the trade off between fF and WT is pretty much just loss of potential damage in a party. In solo, a WT with buffs is slightly less damage than fF and an AT with buffs is slightly less damage than WT. So the real trade off between WT and AT as far as the beta stats were concerned was WT had more survivability and the ability to use the 3rd move in 2 hand skills while AT had more tech damage. You’ll definitely see a gap in damage in a party, but that has more to do with the 25% ATP buff the fF is gaining than your own weakness.

If you do a comparison of AT to fT in solo, you’re basically gaining survivability and losing 30% tech damage (between lack of rods, significantly higher base TP, and 10 extra attack tech levels). That really makes me think it’s a bit closer to a hunter class in the long run than, even though it depends heavily on support techs for that power. I honestly expect most Newmans to switch back to fT once they realize how much less damage they’re dealing and the novelty of whips wears off.


Just saying I’d do a more detailed analysis before laughing about it. But, as I’ve said before, play based on your style.


Back on topic, you’ll probably want to use the close range spells to take advantage of your higher survivability. All the gi- and dam- series, Megiverse, and Regrants will be a lot of fun on that class. You’ll also be able to pull off the 1.6x damage of near death Nosmegid. And, of course, Diga and Foie are always good.


EDIT:

I forgot to add that using anything other than the basic techs on a Madoog will make Sounomi cry, so you may want to invest in Zonde and Barta.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pillan on 2007-08-25 11:14 ]</font>


Well, stat-wise, I think that Newmans can still do mediocre at melee because they don't suffer so much from ATP despite being the worst, unlike CASTs or Beasts who's TP is much worse than Newman ATP, which is the reason for SUVs. For my female newman, if I happen to not like Acrotecher, she'll be heading back to Wartecher if anything. Either way, you seem to support CASTs going outside of Fortegunner, why can't Newmans go outside of Fortetecher? And yeah, I think whips look cool so far, but by appearance alone. If I don't like whips, well, AT has other stuff too.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2007-08-25 11:58 ]</font>

Pillan
Aug 25, 2007, 01:54 PM
On 2007-08-25 11:46, Shiroryuu wrote:
Well, stat-wise, I think that Newmans can still do mediocre at melee because they don't suffer so much from ATP despite being the worst, unlike CASTs or Beasts who's TP is much worse than Newman ATP, which is the reason for SUVs. For my female newman, if I happen to not like Acrotecher, she'll be heading back to Wartecher if anything, not Fortetecher, I like survivability [who knows, I might even make her a Protranser, that's unlocked w/ her too]. And yeah, I'm totally loving whips, but by appearance alone. If I don't like whips, well, AT has other stuff too.


I just want you and everyone else to know that I have nothing against Newman Acrotechers or Newmans in general. I was just explaining the reasoning behind my play style and my own expectations, nothing more.

And, yes, I agree with you entirely. A melee Newman is a magnitude above a Cast or even a Beast techer damage wise.

Play how you like.

I apologize for getting so far off topic and I’ll try to refrain from anymore posts that lean off.

Gryffin
Aug 25, 2007, 02:02 PM
I planned mine out a while ago... Gryffy has always changed classes alot, 'cause nothing suited him... AT is all the main things I love, so I'm gonna stick with it..

Gryffy's List<3

Melee
Whip PA 1
Whip PA 2
Whip PA 3

Buten Shouren-Zan
Sonic Rolly-attack
Dagger Art 3

Gravity Strike (Replaceable)
Rising Strike
Saber Art 3

Moubu Seiren-Zan
Yoyo's-zan
Daggs Art 3

Ranged

Ice Card (Replaceable)
Fire Card (Replaceable)
Light Card

Twin Light
Twin Dark (Replaceable)
Twin Penetrate

Techniques
Foie
Rafoie
Shifta

Barta
Dambarta
Deband

Zonde
Zoldeel

Diga
Gidiga

Megid
Nosmegid (Replaceable)
Dammegid (Replaceable)

Resta
Reverser
Giresta


And that adds up to 34, so room for two more http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Pallete:

Whip-Madoog
Dagger-Madoog
Saber-Madoog
Wand-Card
Twin Handgun
Twin Dagger





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gryffin on 2007-08-25 12:05 ]</font>

DonRoyale
Aug 25, 2007, 02:09 PM
Melee-oriented:

Whip/Madoog (Shifta/Zalure)
Saber/Madoog (Resta/Zalure)
Dagger/Madoog (Jellen/Zoldeel)
Wand (Resta/Reverser)/Card
Wand (Shifta/Deband)/Madoog (Zoldial/Retirer)
Twin Dagger

Tech-oriented:

Whip/Madoog (Resta/Ra-tech)
Wand (Shifta/Deband)/Madoog(Zoldial/Retirer)
Wand (Resta/Jellen)/Madoog (Zalure/Zoldeel)
Wand (Barta/Zonde)/Madoog(Foie/Diga)
Whip/Madoog (Resta/Dambarta)
Wand (Diga/Radiga or Nosdiga)/Madoog (Foie/Rafoie)

EDIT: Did two orients, one for melee, one for tech. Because I'm bored. =

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DonRoyale on 2007-08-25 12:14 ]</font>

Shiro_Ryuu
Aug 25, 2007, 02:15 PM
Well, back to topic now, I think I'll try to post my female newman's PA distribution for Acrotecher and Wartecher which will be her 2nd job, and her current PSU job. I'm still planning things out for her.

Melee:
Whips
Gravity Dance
Buten Shuren Zan
Single Claw

Bullets:
Ice Cards
Light Cards
Dark Longbow
Dark Twin Pistols
I'm still thinking about the rest

Attack Techs:
Foie
Rafoie
Barta
Rabarta
Zonde
Razonde
Diga
Radiga
Megid [well, a placeholder at least for when I ever go to a place w/ Light enemies]
Ramegid

Support Techs
Resta
Reverser
Shifta
Deband
Zodeel
Retier

She's my Force character, and the only one who uses techs. My other characters will be much easier to manage for PAs IMO. My human, while maybe multi jobbing in Acrofighter and Fighgunner, will not have much problems due to overlapping of PAs except that I'll interchange between Cards and Crossbows if I change jobs.

MelanyKoura
Aug 25, 2007, 03:55 PM
On 2007-08-25 10:43, Octagon wrote: The only other things I can say is why no debuffs? It's like double shifta/deband/zodial!

Well as things seem to stand for me right now, I don't have the room (nor feel the need) for the de-buffs. Normally any of the friends I'm playing with (usualy Wartechers or Guntechers) have the de-buffs and take care of that for me. I'm usually healing people who aren't fast enough (for whatever reason) with their 'mates, nuking certain monsters (usually the big guys) to cut the damage done to the party significantly. At times I'm also reviving people who have run out of or don't carry scapes.

Personally I just like supporting the party through healing/reviving, buffing, then helping topple the mobs with my magic. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif I suppose you could call me the White Mage/Black Mage hybrid without the enfeebling magic (*curses the FFXI refrence under her breath*).

Guildenstern
Aug 25, 2007, 03:58 PM
Umm, here was my list for Acrotecher...

Melee:
Rising Strike
Gravity Strike (replaceable)
Spinning Strike
Renkai Buyou-zan
Hishou Jinren-zan
Buten Shuuren-zan
Hisai Shuuha-zan (? The ult dagger PA, whatever it's called)
Whip PA (Vishi Grudda I think?)

Ranged:
Ice, Light, Dark, Earth, Lightning fans, maybe Masei-shiki for the fun DEF down?

TECH:
Foie, Rafoie, Shifta
Barta, Rabarta, Gibarta, Deband, Zalure
Razonde, Zodial, Zoldeel
Diga, Radiga, Gidiga
Resta, Reverser, Retier
Megiverse, Ramegid

Poss. Regrants, Dambarta, Megid, Giresta (wands only ww)

My hypothetical palatte setup was something like
#1. Left hand, fan-- Right hand, wand (Reverser>Resta)
2. Left hand, Madoog (Zodial, Deband, go go ground Yohmei madoog with photon charges) Right hand, wand (Shifta, Retier)
3. Either Twin Daggers or Left hand, fan--Right hand, nuking wand with...something painful on it
4. Left hand, Madoog (Diga, radiga)-- Right hand, melee weapon(Sword, whip, dagger, whatever I need)
5. Left hand, Madoog (Foie, Rafoie)-- Right hand melee
6. Left hand, Madoog (Barta, Rabarta)--Right hand melee

It'll take a lot of trimming between different missions for feasibility, but that's just kind of the basic one I worked out... (._.)b

Remedy
Aug 25, 2007, 09:40 PM
On 2007-08-25 10:36, Pillan wrote:
It was confirmed a while ago that AT's art cap was changed from 20/30/30/50 to 20/20/30/40, so you won't be taking advantage of 41+ support until ST decides to raise the cap to 50 for everyone else.Are Fortechers still 1/30/40/40, however? (or whatever they were in the beta, I forget...)

Pillan
Aug 25, 2007, 09:48 PM
On 2007-08-25 19:40, Remedy wrote:
Are Fortechers still 1/30/40/40, however? (or whatever they were in the beta, I forget...)


I haven't heard about any changes besides AT getting nerfed and AF getting buffed. I'd assume fT is still 10/30/40/40 though.

Rashiid
Aug 25, 2007, 09:52 PM
i beleve we get skills to 10 now? lol....

ashley50
Aug 25, 2007, 09:57 PM
I'll plan mine when the Expansion really comes...
no use planning it right now as it won't change anything in the future.

ThEoRy
Aug 25, 2007, 09:59 PM
On 2007-08-25 19:52, Rashiid wrote:
i beleve we get skills to 10 now? lol....


Ahh Schweet!! I'ma drop half mah techs for skillz now!! Awww yeeaahh!!

Remedy
Aug 25, 2007, 10:19 PM
On 2007-08-25 19:48, Pillan wrote:
I haven't heard about any changes besides AT getting nerfed and AF getting buffed. I'd assume fT is still 10/30/40/40 though.Fantastic, meaning we still retain our support superiourity, but we just have to share it, which is fine by me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif