PSU's "darkness" (spoilers sorta)

[DurakkenX]

I can see how people say that PSU isn't that dark...but when you take a look at it PSU is pretty dark, probably more so than PSO's story

Kitov Milzu is cheating on Arsh Milzu with Sinenu Forin.
Laia Martinez's parents dead?
Ethan's dad died and then his mom died from being over worked.
Prafo Kaluen's father died saving Commander Stank Geece.
Mayton Pord, Mischec Pord's father is dead and he doesn't know.
Dohgi Mikuna tried killing one of his daughters so that he may retain his family's position.
Karren Erra's mother was killed and most likely eaten alive by gohgs.
Kou Taragi is killed by Ethan and co.
Darren Warren killed by Magashi.
Kid killed by Laia and co.
Kalam Ryme's parents are dead.
Tonnio Rhima are dead.
Liina Sukaya's parents are dead.
Lou died.
Mirei Mikuna is dead.
Fulyen Curtz dies.
Newmans and CASTs are taught that they are better than the other races, and beasts are considered savages.
Several characters are also openly just really messed up; thieves, killers, racists, adulterers, religious zealots, scammers, rebels, corrupt government officials.
Endrum Collective kills, kidnaps, and experiments on people.
The SEED forms are assumed to be former people and thus you are killing innocent people a lot.

Main Characters with dead siblings, or parents.
Laia Martinez
Ethan Waber
Mirei Mikuna
Karren Erra
Lumia Waber
Lou
Tonnio Rhima
Liina Sukaya

How can you not say the story is dark. Sure it's not thrown in your face, but most of PSO wasn't either. It was more mysterious which had more people digging, but it definately wasn't as dark as PSU is.

[Freshellent]

All I can say is :

"Hmm."

[Sydz]

Isn't there a whole plot thing with Illumanis and Ethan's father still being alive?

Edit: Noticed "Tonnio Rhima are dead." Might wanna fix that.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sydz on 2007-08-31 13:32 ]</font>

[Sychosis]

No, you're wrong lol, sorry. PSO's story is darker because PSO is better than PSU is every way. PSO's story is both darker AND more light hearted at the same time.

Fact of life.

[DurakkenX]

Proof? All PSO had in darkness was the fact you were killing your colleagues...which you do in PSU and you actually know the people you're killing. It's also had political corruption which PSU also has but it hasn't been fully explored at this point.

[DurakkenX]

On 2007-08-31 13:25, Sydz wrote:
Isn't there a whole plot thing with Illumanis and Ethan's father still being alive?



his mother is still dead v.v

[Sychosis]

On 2007-08-31 13:27, DurakkenX wrote:
Proof? All PSO had in darkness was the fact you were killing your colleagues...which you do in PSU and you actually know the people you're killing. It's also had political corruption which PSU also has but it hasn't been fully explored at this point.



Proof? The correlation is very simple. Romanian scientists proved it 3 and a half months ago using a store bought power drill and 2 packs of chewing gum.

Woosh.

[BanF]

PSO's story seems darker because you begin in Media Res. The Evil has been unleashed, the lack of foresight and the meddling of greedy organizations have allowed it to grow, and when PSO starts it has just wiped out everyone on Ragol. The realization that all those faces on the floor, when you fight Dark Falz, belong to the people of the Pioneer 1, is staggering.

PSU, meanwhile, puts us at the beginning; the initial invasion by seemingly mindless evil, the crescendo as the GUARDIANS attempt to stop it, and all the while we get snippets of the shadowy organizations willing to use the current crisis to further their goals. Now, as AoI approaches, we're finally hitting PSO's stride, with said organizations starting to make their hand felt, causing death, destruction and genocide that could be on par with what happened on Ragol; the true Evil is coming, and if the people squabble like the Army, the Scientists and the Hunters did on Ragol, it might just win. I can't wait to see how it all turns out!

[HFlowen]

Doesn't matter to me if the main story is "dark."

Every time I hear the main theme, I just cannot take anything seriously.

[Esufer]

On 2007-08-31 13:27, DurakkenX wrote:
Proof? All PSO had in darkness was the fact you were killing your colleagues...which you do in PSU and you actually know the people you're killing. It's also had political corruption which PSU also has but it hasn't been fully explored at this point.


Oh, and you know the fact that you had to travel across the universe as Coral was facing the apocalypse.

And then Pioneer 1 asploding, insane animals murdering colonists, and D-Cell experiments on humans and a 1000 year old evil coming to take over the universe, light hearted light hearted light hearted! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gifDD

[HFlowen]

The last messages from Rico and Flowen were a bit eerie.

[Vicious1080]

The first time I fought Dark Falz on very hard was one of my most memorable gaming experiences. I remember the tranquil garden turning into a wasteland with the faces of the people of pioneer 1 making the floor... his different forms were interesting and challenging and just gave you a sense of awe. Then after you kill him, you see the ring and the "victory" music starts playing.

I proceeded to kill him many times and was always creeped out and awed by that fight. Very Hard was the difficulty where he has that final form and that light beam that 1 hits you, right? It really has been awhile.

[Ryo_Hayasa]

On 2007-08-31 13:43, HFlowen wrote:
The last messages from Rico and Flowen were a bit eerie.



Yeah, all i remember from Rico is like her state-of-mind was fading and she felt falz taking over her mind, and mutating her. she also was going through her own personal self conflict about not being a good daughter etc etc. then that one line.

"What awakes here, must stay here. it must not escape" or something like that.

Yeah freaked me the hell out, not to mention seeing falz for the first time.

This is off topic.

Everyone remember when you saw Falz's third form for the first time. Definitely a "Oh shi-" moment.

[Sydz]

On 2007-08-31 13:43, HFlowen wrote:
The last messages from Rico and Flowen were a bit eerie.


Agreed, and between those, the music, graphics, and overall feel, the ruins were effing creepy.

[BanF]

That thrid form, fighting around the ring, it was teh awzoms. I still play it on offline multiplayer with friends.

[Ryo_Hayasa]

On 2007-08-31 13:53, Vicious1080 wrote:
The first time I fought Dark Falz on very hard was one of my most memorable gaming experiences. I remember the tranquil garden turning into a wasteland with the faces of the people of pioneer 1 making the floor... his different forms were interesting and challenging and just gave you a sense of awe. Then after you kill him, you see the ring and the "victory" music starts playing.

I proceeded to kill him many times and was always creeped out and awed by that fight. Very Hard was the difficulty where he has that final form and that light beam that 1 hits you, right? It really has been awhile.




That'd be Grantz(s?) We really...really miss that one. I think, in PSU it should be that Light Hadoken(lol?) that the monsters in relic fire, which cause sleep.

[CelestialBlade]

They're both dark storylines (EVERY game has a dark storyline!) but PSO had creepier areas. PSO had Caves and Mines and Ruins, and even Forest had ominous music. PSU has stuff like Raffon Meadow, I don't think I need to explain that one.

Not saying I don't like PSU's story because I really do, and while I believe PSU is a vaaaaast improvement over PSO, PSU really does need some creepy area like Ruins. That place is one of the coolest areas in any video game.

[DikkyRay]

On 2007-08-31 13:25, Sychosis wrote:
No, you're wrong lol, sorry. PSO's story is darker because PSO is better than PSU is every way. PSO's story is both darker AND more light hearted at the same time.

Fact of life.


I fucking lol'd so hard

[ShadowDragon28]

In literary terms, or terms of a play PSU is a "tragedy" type of drama, since it's not purely a Comedy.

Tragedies can have some bits of comedy or dark humor though. It's not so much about "darkness", but more about the flaws of being "human" even if not all the characters are human.

Far to often the flaws of human nature are stereotypically called "darkness" when in *actuallity* "darkness" is about space-time, contemplation, being introspective, silence, stillness, potential, death that leads into possible rebirth, the cosmos born from nothingness. Darkness is the womb of creation. "Darkness" is all those things I've just mentioned.

It's unfortunate that far to many use/view/talk of "darkness" as a metaphor for "evil", "sin", the flaws that can arise out of human nature, and as a perverbial scapegoat to blame terrible situations on which has little to "darkness."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShadowDragon28 on 2007-08-31 15:41 ]</font>

[Kismet]

Does it MATTER?

To me, it isn't death or dramatic misfortunes(ex: 'oh, boo-hoo, my parents are dead http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif' or 'i can't believe he/she cheated on me with John/Jane Doe http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif') that makes a story "dark". I will use When The Cicadas Cry (Higurashi no Naku Koro ni) as a reference/example of this.

Higurashi no Naku Koro ni is a "dark" anime. And it's not even because of any of the death in the show. It's because of the constant ever-lasting question of the "true" PoV in the story; it's up to the viewer to determine whether the story is told through the eyes of an insane person imagining things, and to figure out which events actually happened (although since Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai is now being broadcast, the sequel which gives us the answers to the first show, this is no longer necessary - or if one had played the games/listened to the drama CDs or w/e).

When something is "dark", it's more in reference to at what point does a person hit that mark of insanity, figuring out whether a present mania is widespread or contained within your own mind, or testing the limits of one's mental/emotional/spiritual resistance or stability.

[Sinue_v2]

I don't think it's so much the events themselves that make the storyline dark (although they are integral to a darker storyline), but the way that it's presented. You're bombarded by this cliche up-beat "Lets get stronger and with the power of spirit, and we can overcome anything!" atmosphere that clashes with and dulls the events which would otherwise help to make the storyline of the game more oppressive and dark. The opening song "Save this world" sets that tone rather explicitly (compare that to End of the Millenium, PSII's theme, or even Whole new World).

By the way, PSII is king of dark oppressive atmospheres and bittersweet endings. Don't even try to top it. The entire homeworld of the Parman humans destroyed, the computer systems society depended on running out of control or shutting down completely, the last vestiages of our race destroyed, your entire party (presumed) dead - with their legacy living on as terrorists rather than heroes. The Great Collapse ensued, killing 80% of the life and leaving the survivors to eek out a living on the two most inhospitable planets in the solar system.

Beautiful.

[Sydz]

Of course, PSII wasnt the end of the story either, More like a very dark series of chapters.

[Zer0_ConvoY]

psu may be a darker story line, but if I'm in a clown suit in the middle of the day at a park telling you in a very nonchilant way "a bunch of guys you kinda know got brutally killed" versus taking you down into the dark, creepy, eerie cave where the aformentioned people were mercilessly slaughtered and showing you video footage of them flipping out as scary effing shit is going down... then have YOU encounter the same scenarios you just saw and in the end actually encounter one of those men, find them alive and transformed into a monster... it just has a scoch more effect, the atmosphere YOU encounter is where the dark feel comes from, its why I like the relics so much, you are basically in an alien place with its security system on auto annihalate and you are trying to get to the other side, no light, no sky, just monsters, many of which tower over you, chasing you through.

[Zorafim]

On 2007-08-31 16:55, Sinue_v2 wrote:
I don't think it's so much the events themselves that make the storyline dark (although they are integral to a darker storyline), but the way that it's presented. You're bombarded by this cliche up-beat "Lets get stronger and with the power of spirit, and we can overcome anything!" atmosphere that clashes with and dulls the events which would otherwise help to make the storyline of the game more oppressive and dark. The opening song "Save this world" sets that tone rather explicitly (compare that to End of the Millenium, PSII's theme, or even Whole new World).

By the way, PSII is king of dark oppressive atmospheres and bittersweet endings. Don't even try to top it. The entire homeworld of the Parman humans destroyed, the computer systems society depended on running out of control or shutting down completely, the last vestiages of our race destroyed, your entire party (presumed) dead - with their legacy living on as terrorists rather than heroes. The Great Collapse ensued, killing 80% of the life and leaving the survivors to eek out a living on the two most inhospitable planets in the solar system.

Beautiful.



And Nei. Don't forget Nei.
...
...
...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Raj1os6j2T4

[DurakkenX]

The only thing that really gives PSO a darker edge then is the character going insane... 2 of which we hear only because the messages they left behind and they aren't that freaky. When given the fact that they are not going insane so much as an entity is messing with them. The other one that "goes" insane doesn't at all as he is already insane and just hides it better than most.

In PSU no one has been put in the situation where they could go insane or appear to be. Magashi is insane from the beginning. Someone that I'm betting on being insane is Olson.

[Anduril]

PSO's atmosphere was way more oppressive and hopeless just due to the fact that you know that there were once quite a few people in the areas you are exploring and now there is only nothing. PSU doesn't have such a depressing environment, since there are 3 planets that are populated that you go around exploring. I think this is really one of the only reasons, again in my opinion, why PSO seems to be "darker" than PSU.

[Dragon_Knight]

Yea...I think PSUs story is darker...the only problem is its presentation. Damn near everything in the game is in a well lit area and the characters are all dressed brightly, even the people that get fragged. Basicaly it feels like the characters have a strong hope and power of unity thing going so you feel like no matter what happenes it will all be all right in the end.

If it felt like Ethan was fighting and clinging to one last deperate hope of survival....or they were all dresssed in earthen tones then it would deffiantly have been darker. Becuase as it is the story made it sound like it was near extinction of the races by some unstoppable alien force. But Ethan's fight even against overwhelming numbers and upbeat speeches made it feel like they didn't need to keep hope alive because of how weak the SEEDs really were.

Oh and as for Lou being on the dead list...that kind of arguable either by the stand point of "they fixed her" (which they alluded to right after that scene where they argue about leaving the broken unit for dead) or "one of the hive" (because each Lou is part of a whole and unless completely cut off is controlled by a master Lou program...there for the only way to kill Lou is to destroy the master unit)

[DurakkenX]

What are you talking about? Gurhal was in a war for 500 year and nearly decimated them. There is only 1.5billion people left across those 3 planets and more than likely there was at least 12billion plus people. Not only that they are fighting something that the ancient civ that was more advanced couldn't beat AND their star is acting crazy.

They just keep an up beat attitude because they have to put a front for civilians. I'm sure if you saw PSO from the civilian side it would be pretty similar to PSU.

[Sinue_v2]

I'm sure if you saw PSO from the civilian side it would be pretty similar to PSU.

Not really. There's several civilian NPC's aboard Pioneer 2, and most of them at best seem doubtful and frightened.


The only thing that really gives PSO a darker edge then is the character going insane...

There's quite a few of them, actually. I think, From the Depths, is a good example. Not to mention Soul of Steel. Also... they're not insane, just having an entity messing with them? That's like saying the characters of Eternal Darkness weren't going crazy... it was just Ugyloth(sp) pulling pranks on them.


In PSU no one has been put in the situation where they could go insane or appear to be.

I have no proof, but I'm willing to bet that Hauser was a good person at one time who was tempted and whispered to, eventually twisting him.


Someone that I'm betting on being insane is Olson.

Again, I don't have the slightest shred of proof - but I think Olson is already dead. If not, he will die.

[Esufer]

BTW, this thread isn't "spoilers sorta"

it's "HOLY CRAP DON'T COME IN HERE IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED STORY MODE."

Might wanna change that buddy.

[Arika]

On 2007-08-31 13:16, DurakkenX wrote:

Kid killed by Laia and YOU



fixed! , and I was really happy to kill that brat http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



btw, when did Tonnio die?

[DurakkenX]

never...it's supposed to say his parent's are dead ^.^

The "civilians" that you see are still kept away from information and those let into the area are only there to give missions from what is seen and said.

The characters in missions that you are talking about aren't insane in the least. Falz ha telepathy that is in their head. That is not insanity when they react to that.

Hauser? I haven't come across this name >.>

From what is said Ethan has seen or spoken to Olson. He would not believe him to be alive if he had no proof or reason that he was alive. Considering how much they talk of Olson it is likely he'll be appearing.

[Sinue_v2]

I would consider them insane, simply because it is their own desires and their own personality that Falz is twisting to make them behave that way. We don't see it explicitly in the NPC's in From the Depths, but we do see it in Ult in Soul of Steel. She sought freedom, like her sister enjoyed. Falz amplified this urge, and twisted her thoughts, especially since he also sought freedom from his prison. The Governor of Motavia and Rulakir also were similarly overwhelmed by their own urges, amplified by the Darkness. However, both had "snapped out of it" later on and regretted their decisions. I think Lassic would have as well but for whatever reason the Darkness revived him, absorbed him, was too far gone to be saved. Zio is another example of this, although it's impossible to tell whether or not he was a good person before his corruption.

As for Hauser - he's the man behind Magashi, and to the best of anyone's knowledge - Ethan has not yet met his father. He KNEW he was still alive when he was ordered to try to assassinate Olbel Daligun - but since he failed, Ethan is unsure whether of his father's fate. He knew he father was alive, at least at the time, because he's seen pictures of him bound and incarcerated by the Illuminus. This comes from Ep II Chapter 9: Flash of Ruin as well as the preview video for the PSU moving comic.

[Broodstar1337]

PSU is fucking rainbows.

[DurakkenX]

Where does this info about Hauser come from? Like I said I have never come across this name.

[Kaydin]

The fact that so many characters have relatives that were killed makes the game worse. I mean, can't SEGA come up with better back stories than "OMG his parents/sister/whoever are dead."?

[Alisha]

so im guessing you never played ep 3 dura cause that was dark as fuck. kranz dies by jumping in front of an explosion to sheild his friends then gets cloned then everyone acts like nothing happened. oh and that explosion happend on pioneer 2. 2 characters(Ino'lis and Glustar) betray the heroside. yes casts were massacared. remitos aka nef miyama is the father of zoke whos last breath you witness in a pso quest. Viviana is a graves so 2 people of relation to her died in the seabed. pso as a series is littered woth corpses,and i dont even know the story of blue burst.

[D1ABOLIK]

On 2007-08-31 13:55, Sydz wrote:

On 2007-08-31 13:43, HFlowen wrote:
The last messages from Rico and Flowen were a bit eerie.


Agreed, and between those, the music, graphics, and overall feel, the ruins were effing creepy.

The ruins are the best stage in any video game ever.Nothing in PSU,so far,even comes close to the atmosphere of the ruins and final bosses of PSO.

________
Portable vaporizers (http://vaporizer.org/)

[ShadowDragon28]

A mass genocidal war certainaly could explain why many NPC in offline mode are like ghosts.

Online GC and the planets seem suspiciously devoid of wandering NPC's to talk to...
Without player-characters the main city/town areas you have access to on the three planets, and GC , are practically ghost towns with only shop-clerks, a bar-tender, and special mission npcs being the only other humaniod life you encounter other that player-characters...

This either is due to hardware memory limitations of the PS2 & CD space,
*OR* it's to intentionally impress a kind of feeling of isolation; to maybe intentionall show that there are only a scattered few left after the war?

Maybe there's supposed to be millions of hypothetical/imaginary NPC's over in far-off parts of the city that is beyond the local instances you can travel in...Just a little food for thought...

[Nai_Calus]

PSO:

Coral has been engaged in brutal civil war for ages, to the point where the environment is completely ruined, not to mention the planet is overpopulated.

A sample of the D-factor ends up in the hands of Coralian scientists who want to use it to make weapons, specifically bio-weapons.

The Pioneer Project is a massive front for going to Ragol specifically to search for more of them and do experiments.

Newmans and androids are second-class citizens. Androids are actually forbidden from looking too human.

Much unethical research is done on Ragol. Corruption runs rampant throughout all facets of both Pioneer 1 and Pioneer 2. Black Paper is controlled by the government. Flowen becomes infected with D-cells and is used as a human test subject.

The three AIs, Calus, Olga and Vol Opt, are created first to be eventually evolved into bio-weapons, and then when Osto runs out of patience for that idea, used to try to control the D-factor. Olga is basically destroyed when her core is implanted in Flowen, we fight and defeat the result. Vol Opt is hacked, presumably by Dark Falz, and by the time we face him/her already completely gone. Calus is also hacked, but manages to hold out long enough to meet Elly once before having to commit suicide to escape sharing Vol Opt's fate. Elly of course loses her friend. Calus is later restored by the Lab, but suffers further at their hands, his very self tampered with and nearly destroyed by the modifications the Lab made. His only hope of escape is to hope that the Mother project can actually work and that it wasn't corrupted by Falz along with everything else. Either way he'll be seperated from Elly once again, and may very well still die, or lose himself again.

Matha Grave's parents are MIA(And also dead, since they were on P1). Her butler, the man who has taken care of her for pretty much her entire life, went to Ragol to investigate, is killed.

Only Hunters, the Lab, the government and organizations like Black Paper have any sort of freedom - The military guards on Pioneer 2 are jealous of your ability to investigate freely. Civilians aren't allowed to go anywhere, are kept totally in the dark, food is strictly rationed, they'll potentially spend the rest of their lives living in Pioneer 2's eternal night with no hope of even knowing exactly why, the population eventually starts getting out of control, everyone has to submit to daily scans once the cloning technology is developed...

There's a hostile takeover, and Pioneer 2's population is subjected to some really crappy dictatorship for a while. The OPSS incident kills thousands of androids and leaves androids and humans alike scarred for years.

Everyone on Pioneer 1 dies. Every. Single. One. Except Calus. But he doesn't exactly get off easy. (And he technically DOES die, it's just that due to what he is he's able to be brought back. Sort of.) Falz basically absorbs them, so far as we can tell, and presumably they're tortured up until we defeat it and free them.

Rico is corrupted and turned into a horrible monster. Flowen is also corrupted and turned into a horrible monster(Along with Olga, whom everyone forgets, poor thing - And Olga presumably had an opinion about it, and suffered as well. Calus, Olga and Vol Opt were 'siblings' and presumably had similar emotional capacities). You kill hunters who have been corrupted and it's a widely held theory that many of the monsters you fight in the Ruins and the Seabed are the mutated remnants of people from Pioneer 1.

Twenty-one years later, the damned ship STILL hasn't landed. People have died of old age aboard it in the meantime, and people have grown up who have never set foot on a planet. And it's not a nice cushy worldship like the Alisa III in PSIII, either.

Ep III is also filled with plenty of angst besides this.

There's a hopelessness and desperation to PSO that PSU lacks. There's still bright sunny Holtes City and tranquil Ohtoku City and three planets with people living happily *on* the planets and relatively non-oppressive governments. The Colony was designed to be a permanent settlement, not just some place to make due with for a couple of years until you get to your real home. Pioneer 2 can't return to Coral, what's left there for them? Nor can they safely land on Ragol until after EpIII's events. People are worried and upset about this. It's not something that people are happy about.

"We can't go back, and we can't proceed. Where is home now?"

So PSU, no matter what's going on behind the scenes, just isn't going to seem as foreboding as PSO. No dark force(Pun intended) has wiped out the entire population of a world. People aren't totally without hope. There's no cutesy 'let's all hold hands over this glowy orb thing to show our unity, rofl' moments. Just a bunch of glorified bounty hunters scrabbling out a living and trying to figure out just where the hell it all went wrong, while everyone tries to somehow go on living when the future seems unimaginably bleak and their friends and family members aboard Pioneer 1 have all died.

PSU ain't even fucking started being dark yet. Sure, they had their wars, and they have their rumblings of Big Bad Evil things, but don't forget that they're coming off a hundred years of peace, which PSO sure as hell hasn't had, and that it's not complete doom and gloom and hopelessness yet. XD

Plus, yeah, then like Sinue said, you have PSII. XP (Psst, great Collapse was 90% of the population, not 80.)

[Sinue_v2]

Where does this info about Hauser come from? Like I said I have never come across this name.

That's because it's not in the game (yet). It should be revealed in Ep 2 Chapter 10, which has already been released in Japan and has seen quite a bit of discussion.