PSU 360 And The Death Patch

[Sol-Edge]

Why are so many of you guys against the patch?

I'm on PS2 and the game has gotten so much more friendlier ever since the patch arrived. You don't gotta worry too much about newbies joining in and then dying and now you can bring your P.M anywhere without worrying about it affecting your rewards. Also you now save TONS of money because you aren't obligated to carry dolls.(Men shouldn't play with dolls anyway jk.) Many people still carry at least 2 dolls when they play so I really don't get it.

It's so strange how many of you are against it when you have to work a bit harder for money than us PS2/PC players.

[HFlowen]

Some people enjoy the challenge I guess?

Or people have to find an excuse for console wars.

Calling the Ps2/PC patch the "noob patch" is one of them.

[RedX]

I really don't see how it makes it less challenging. You still don't want to die, so it's not like you stop caring.

For me all it did was save me a load of cash.

Edit: opps forgot the not in the first part >.>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RedX on 2007-09-08 18:09 ]</font>

[Mayu]

I though you o.0 you liked saving money

instead of

well http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Killing it on Scape dolls <.<

[HFlowen]

I believe the patch also included the slowdown for s2 enemies.

Remember when distova ran 99 miles an hour?

[BanF]

1. The game has little challenge as it is, and making death even more meaningless only decreases it. Without risk there's no fun or sense of achievement, and this patch reduces risk.

2. On the 360 there are already kamikaze idiots, or morons that sell all their stuff so they can buy the shiniest weapon. These idiots will jump into your game, and proceed to ruin the fun by loud remarks they be healed and taken care of because they won't do it for themselves. Aggravating to say the least, and should they die they cost your party points. Having this patch will just encourage more people to go this route, plus now they'll also be more reckless and demand they be resurrected when they finally do die; I for one don't see why I should waste my items on people who won't take care of themselves, or why I should suffer them at all. It is the increase of such idiots the main reason I'm against this patch.

[amtalx]

This game is too easy as it is. A team of gunners and a techer is more or less unstoppable. On top of that all the noobs will be like "moon me now! c'mon guys!" I always carry moons, and mistakes happen, but YOU are responsible for your own survival.

[RedX]

1. Deaths were always meaningless, since you were/are always caring dolls.

2. Then don't waste your items leave them there, or boot them. Hell why not boot them to begin with? It doesn't encourage idiots at all, if they're being jerks don't moon them, just boot or leave them there till they leave.

[Hath_Wrobo]

Well, for me, I solo frequently, so having a patch which would prevent my NPCs from destroying my rank would be very nice. I could actually start getting money and pa fragments! Besides, if it gets too easy, sonic team could just make some tweaks to enemy difficulty, making teamwork more crucial for survival.

[Gen2000]

As much as I see people still dying from Ragnus (learn to back off when he does his stomp for chirst sake) money is still getting wasted either way.

[HiroSan]

On 2007-09-08 17:45, Sol-Edge wrote:
(Men shouldn't play with dolls anyway jk.)


Hey Sol...That's Homo q<.<

[BanF]

On 2007-09-08 18:15, RedX wrote:
1. Deaths were always meaningless, since you were/are always caring dolls.

2. Then don't waste your items leave them there, or boot them. Hell why not boot them to begin with? It doesn't encourage idiots at all, if they're being jerks don't moon them, just boot or leave them there till they leave.



1. Dolls being neither cheap nor easy to find, they do not eliminate the risk of Death, only diminish it; plus, they still leave the onus of surviving on you, not on your party members, so it's a matter of personal responsibility; this patch throws it away.

2. I do boot the jerks, but if they already cost me points the damage is done, isn't it? The point is that there are going to be even MORE of them, so one's chances of running into one of these idiots will be increased.

[landman]

Today I've synthed my bear claws so I no longer care when they ad the patch http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[RedX]

Then moon and boot. Nothing lost.

And it doesn't throw away personal responsibility. If you die a lot your going to get booted, plain and simple. It also becomes your responsibility, to help your team mates and their responsibility to help you. But of course you can't grasp this because you don't understand that this is a TEAM game and should be played like one. Thats why this patch was made in the first place.

[Agnostic187]

Who says we're even getting it anyway?

[BanF]

I don't see where in "team" the word "babysitting" is. I do my part in a party; I buff, I heal/restore either with spells or items, I bring people back if they die, and I try to keep myself from dying; I also fail to see where in the meaning of "team" it says you must put up with selfish idiots. The problem is still that too many such idiots play this game, and the fact is that this patch will only encourage them further, and make more come out of the woodwork.

[zandra117]

The only people against this patch are lvl 70+ where everything is completed without great difficulty. They enjoy booting lower lvls for lulz with the excuse that "they might die and ruin our rank in a C difficulty mission." It increases their E-Peen. It is difficult for starting players to gain exp with the assistance of a group nowadays because the majority is high level and will boot lower levels from their parties. Im lvl 60 and I get booted alot even before I die because im considered not high enough to party with them.

Back in pso people used to bring lower levels with them all the time and help them level up because there wasnt this death messes up rank crap. Now sega messed up and put in a score system that encourages elitism, it needs to be corrected before the elitism gets worse.

[Reipard]

*rolleyes*

There's no reason to be against this patch. A lot of people just are because of some preconceived notion that it will make the game easier when in actuality it doesn't affect anything at all.

New System:
You die, you're resurrected by a party member > No MP loss

Old System:
You die, you're resurrected by your Scape Doll > No MP loss

Huge difference, that http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

[Powder Keg]

I feel bad when it comes to 360 players and Dulk Fakis. Nothing but flying megid and insane foie blasts. Even a friggin' Newman FT can die in one Gaozoran crit. And the megid just speaks for itself. If PC didn't have that patch I'd refuse to run DF because I'd literally lose more money than the reward on each run.

[BanF]

I don't have a single chara at level 65, much less above 70. I don't boot anyone who makes an actual contribution to the game. Stop generalizing so your e-peen doesn't feel forgotten.

[Chaobo99]

w/o scapes..when people die..it'll slow u down.
w/o scapes..people will demand revival
AND dulk fakis S2 isnt THAT hard.Im a newman fortetecher and i only died 3 times throughout the whole thing while trying to support the entire party.
They should make it so that if YOU die only YOUR rank is affected and not everyone elses.

[youthisoverrated]

i solo a great deal w/ npc's, i would love if the patch came out. other than that i have no real say againist it, other than why we didn't get it also?

[BanF]

I solo a lot too, and part of it is choosing the NPCs wisely. Leo for instance gets chewed up in a hurry by Vandas and anything that breathes fire, so he's out of most if not all Moatoob missions, while Maya is no good at anything and so she never gets taken out for a spin. Lastly, if the risks of the NPCs dying at one point is greater than the help they'll bring (usually a boss fight) they are booted. So it's another thing where you have to use your brains, and not rely on a patch to dumb down the game.

[Hath_Wrobo]

Well, thinking about it, there really is no reason for them not to include the ability for moon atomizers to actually not affect rank. I mean, rank will still be affected if the incapacitated returns to the lobby, so its not like a total elimination. What people have to remember, is this is a TEAM game. Where people say "babysitting", I say "having someone's back". The death penalty now I think is too strict, where if someone dies without a scape doll, the party gets angry at said person and might even boot him. For what reason? People spam the hell of these missions that give decent meseta rewards, so why should it matter so much if one run gives you less money? Speaking of which, wouldn't the elimination of this problem actually be better for these people who are so anal about S ranks? Yes, the elmination of the death penalty will cause a reduction of scape doll use, but, why is this a problem? Moon atomizers are easily found and not really that expensive to even buy. (10 for 3500)

So you may have to actually help some weaker people in your party at certain moments, big deal. They are in your PARTY, meaning, you are suppose to go through the mission TOGETHER. Jesus Christ people, stop fuckin whining about the fact that you actually have to help support the party more.

I have a question for the people who don't want this update, if you were a non-force, and you had star atomizers to spare, would use actually help your team out with a group heal if there was no force if someone was about to die, or just do nothing and then complain about the lack of said person's death without a scape doll? Now insert Moon Atomizer in place of Star Atomizer.


In short, TEAM game, stop being selfish pricks who only care about rank. Be there for your team in support once in a while instead of hack n' slash. It will make the game go much more smoothly without the atmosphere of hatred over someone dying.


I just hope they will give us the update so everyone can just shut the fuck up.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hath_Wrobo on 2007-09-08 21:41 ]</font>

[BanF]

If you think four letter words help make your points, allow me to tell you it's not working.

Also, if the other guy is not playing as a team member, I don't see why I should try to cover him. It'd be easier to have the empty spot, since you don't have to be watching out for someone who refuses to be responsible for himself.

And yes, the patch is coming no matter what we say, unfortunately, but that won't ever stop me from making my opinion known when it is asked. The patch is a bad thing for this game and nothing will change that.

[Agnostic187]

Who says the patch is coming besides everyone that wants it?

[BanF]

http://boards2.sega.com/psu_board/viewtopic.php?t=37550&highlight=patch

Scroll down to Clumsyorchid's post. He said there was going to be a delay, but that we're, sadly, definitely getting it.

[DonRoyale]

360 users whine about it coming, yet they're the ones with less money. Yeah, that makes total sense.

But open to explanations if possible.

[Dragwind]

When you guys get it, you'll love it. Or perhaps, you'll complain because that's all you guys do.

[BanF]

Less money != can't buy escapes.

I myself don't buy them anyway; all I have I find or synth (again, without spending a dime) and I never have less than two, and often have to put some away because I hoard up 10 or so. Staying alive without a scape doll on you only requires you stay on your toes, though the Colony S+ missions, with their hordes of Deljaban, do make it tricky (Jarbas are too few and too predictable). Outside of the Colony, playing S missions, I die maybe twice a month, and by then I've made or found a bunch of new escape dolls.

Having less money also doesn't mean we can't hoard up on atomizers and mates, stuff that when actually used will eliminate the need for a escape doll in most cases. People just want to be lazier than usual and spend even less money on keeping themselves properly alive, guess that's why they're over at HSM C all the time, buncha money with little effort involved.

[Reipard]

Teamwork defined is the very act of burdening yourself with the weight of another to support them as part of an implicit agreement that they will carry your own burden and support you in a like manner for the purpose of achieving the team's common goal. It is easier to accomplish things in a group than it is alone, hence the reason this is even being done.

Just because people freaking die doesn't mean they're being selfish. And I've yet to see anyone kamikaze enemies in the manner you're so afraid will occur.

All the patch does is give people the option of relying on eachother a little more and create opportunities for teamwork. Most of all, it takes the focus away from the freaking Scape Dolls. It doesn't make anything easier as nothing is easier than absolute invincibility, which the Scape Dolls give you.

[Midicronica]

I'm not against it, I'm all fucking for it and I hope it gets the "clear" from Microsoft soon.

[Sekani]

I just don't care anymore.

[landman]

I still have to buy a single scape doll, I have 30 at the moment on different characters, it 's not that I lose money using them, but I have never ran Dulk Fakis with scapes, I just go for fun

[amtalx]

On 2007-09-08 20:19, Artea wrote:
I feel bad when it comes to 360 players and Dulk Fakis. Nothing but flying megid and insane foie blasts. Even a friggin' Newman FT can die in one Gaozoran crit. And the megid just speaks for itself. If PC didn't have that patch I'd refuse to run DF because I'd literally lose more money than the reward on each run.



Dulk Fakis is supposed to be hard. In fact, its one of the ONLY missions that actually is hard. I want it to stay that way. With a solid team, you can do this mission without dying. Sure, someone will make a mistake or fall asleep at the wheel, but that will amount to only a few deaths at best. The patch would make this mission "loleasymode". It takes away all the risk.

[Yunfa]

I think someone's got an ego issue. (This kind of attitude ruins the game for others) <_<; Theres always one out there who refuse to accept the majority's opinion, its pathetic really. I, like the many others, are waiting patiently for the patch. Hehe >:3



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Yunfa on 2007-09-09 06:58 ]</font>

[amtalx]

Just because I don't agree with the masses doesn't mean that I have an ego issue. I just want the hard missions to remain hard. I really liked doing missions like PW #4 in PSO because it forced everyone to play at the top of their game. With the removal of the death penalty there no deterrent from dying aside from the annoyance to your team and the cost of a Moon. Even in PSO, the synchro on your Mag would drop...with this patch there will be nothing.

[pikachief]

On 2007-09-08 17:45, Sol-Edge wrote:
Why are so many of you guys against the patch?

I'm on PS2 and the game has gotten so much more friendlier ever since the patch arrived. You don't gotta worry too much about newbies joining in and then dying and now you can bring your P.M anywhere without worrying about it affecting your rewards. Also you now save TONS of money because you aren't obligated to carry dolls.(Men shouldn't play with dolls anyway jk.) Many people still carry at least 2 dolls when they play so I really don't get it.

It's so strange how many of you are against it when you have to work a bit harder for money than us PS2/PC players.



yea i competely suck at playing a hunter so i always play with like 5 scape dolls on Kitty on 360.

When i die on 360 i usually get very angry responses followed by a boot.

I played on PC and their just like, "Oh hold on i'll revive u."

its SSSOSOOOOO much better with the patch.

[BanF]

On 2007-09-09 01:40, Reipard wrote:
Just because people freaking die doesn't mean they're being selfish. And I've yet to see anyone kamikaze enemies in the manner you're so afraid will occur.


"Will"? If you haven't run into these idiots consider yourself very lucky. I run into at least one every week.

And, like I said before, I refuse to babysit someone who won't take care of himself. The intent of the patch is nothing compared to the abuse these people will put it to.

[KaffeKane]

Huh. I don't really see any difference other than if someone dies and gets revived in a party, that it won't cost a rank down.
Of course, you have had those demanding idiots that don't know how to survive on their own from even the days of Blue Burst, right? The ones that always treat forces like they exist only to be a heal slave and nothing else while they spam Berserk until something manages to hit and kill them in a single shot.
Except that this is PSU, and not Blue Burst, so now it's gotten to a bunch of players that can't even handle playing in a group without dying, and I almost never die in a group unless I'm the only one fighting while everyone else is off in some other direction having an afk or tea party, whatever.
At least I'm not one of those "HELA ME, BESH" kinds of people. I know just how far my items, weapons, and PAs can take me, and try to conserve stuff as much as possible, because I hate spending Meseta. (Mo-ney makes the world go round...) <_< Unfortunately they made money the driving force that turns the world way too singularly in PSU.

I just thought yesterday, though, that I don't need S-Rank for a mission grade if I want to hunt rares, anyway, so Falkis S2 can own me all it likes, I don't care about getting a PA Frag or two, I want me a Cati-senba! :3 (Still can't play PSU yet, though... >_>)

EDIT: @ amtal -- There is still a way for rank to drop with this patch. If someone is still dead while the mission ends, then it still counts against you, anyway. So then the real challenge for you people who want consistent "S" grades on your missions is keeping everyone alive before the boss dies.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KaffeKane on 2007-09-09 08:21 ]</font>

[Fox_Makenshi]

Just because people CAN die without destroying the rank doesn't mean they should. If you're playing with someone who you think isn't fit to be in your party, boot/blacklist them. Problem solved, you'll never have to play with them again.

You should only play with people that have a similar mindset in reference to deaths. Some parties are laid back and don't care if anyone dies, you'll just revive them. Some parties act like the death patch never happened and will give you a hard time if you die at all.

Personally, on PS2, I carry moons because in the event someone does die I revive them. The fact of the matter is sometimes people make mistakes and die. This patch doesn't encourage me to go run into a group of spinning Vears. Point is you should still play the same way but if an accident happens or someone was careless for a second they won't have the whole group up their ass about it.

Love,
Fox Makenshi

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-09-09 08:14, BanF wrote:
And, like I said before, I refuse to babysit someone who won't take care of himself. The intent of the patch is nothing compared to the abuse these people will put it to.


Question. Why is the pre-scape nerf world so different in abuse? I mean, what's stopped griefers from abusing the original ruleset where rank drops if you so much as faint without a scape? I figured that kind of griefing would be MORE common since they could easily get away with it.

The scape nerf makes it a little harder for them to grief!

Originally, all they had to do was die scapeless and your rank would be sabotaged. Thanks to the new scape nerf patch, dying won't automatically penalize your ranking; they have to try and leave the party before they're revived. In the case of griefers who try to sabotage ranking by catching up with the party and playing crash dummy, they can be deftly revived and kicked out. Sure, you lose a bit of meseta, but you've saved your ranking from the hands of a griefer (therefore securing much more meseta as well as possible PA frags), not to mention spoiled his fun.

Now, in the case of cakebombers, there's not much that can be done if they remain at the start point or run off to some secluded area to commit suicide by cake. That was already a problem with the pre-scape nerf ruleset; just ask any jeM member how they perfected cakebombing as a means of vengance.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: F-Gattaca on 2007-09-09 08:30 ]</font>

[Powder Keg]

On 2007-09-09 05:38, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-09-08 20:19, Artea wrote:
I feel bad when it comes to 360 players and Dulk Fakis. Nothing but flying megid and insane foie blasts. Even a friggin' Newman FT can die in one Gaozoran crit. And the megid just speaks for itself. If PC didn't have that patch I'd refuse to run DF because I'd literally lose more money than the reward on each run.



Dulk Fakis is supposed to be hard. In fact, its one of the ONLY missions that actually is hard. I want it to stay that way. With a solid team, you can do this mission without dying. Sure, someone will make a mistake or fall asleep at the wheel, but that will amount to only a few deaths at best. The patch would make this mission "loleasymode". It takes away all the risk.


What it's really taking away is "lolyoulostallyourmeseta" Meseta isn't easy to obtain without spending a LOT of time, and it gets literally blown away from scape dolls in missions where you can die in just one hit. I shouldn't even have to explain Giresta and Moon Atomizers. The whole idea was dumb in the first place and it's painfully obvious.

[KaffeKane]

On 2007-09-09 08:26, Fox_Makenshi wrote:
This patch doesn't encourage me to go run into a group of spinning Vears.


It does one person: "LEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOOY--JENKIIIIIIIIINS!!!" *echoes*

[OldCoot]

Where did you hear this rumor that a lot of players on the 360 don't want this update?

Sounds like a number of posters here who play the PS2/PC version, love the change and I think it will be a welcome change for the 360 populace as well.

When I needed MP and meseta then death without a scape was an issue, and a player's decision to not carry scapes blew a lot of time and effort. That is why when I care, I put in comment that death without a scape=boot.

But with this update it won't matter anymore. Just revive them saving the rank and decide from there.

I think a lot of people like to help others. Usually when I see players wander into games being unprepared they are around the same level as me and they have good gear. They can afford scapes but they decided to not carry them.

How often do you with level maxed characters run missions that are 1 to 2 ranks below what you can do? Rare for me unless I am helping another player.

With this patch if anything, help preserve the rank so everyone wins.

[Hath_Wrobo]

Well, another good reason for this update, maybe if missions do get too easy or whatever, you know, they could always later have missions or bosses that really fuck the party up so much, that having everyone with full moons will be necessary. I don't understand why people say loleasymode when a) the game is easy as it is for people with the ability to buy 10 scape dolls every run b) there are many missions we havent seen yet that might come out in the expansion that may prove to be very difficult even with this new update.

[Shardio]

Uhm, wasn't that patch implemented a LONG time ago? Why's there a thread about it popping up now? I think I missed something...

[Powder Keg]

On 2007-09-09 09:05, Shardio wrote:
Uhm, wasn't that patch implemented a LONG time ago? Why's there a thread about it popping up now? I think I missed something...


You did. 360 doesn't have it yet.

[Rashiid]

dont really care for it; ill probably still buy scapes and stay alive anyway.

why should others revive me for running aimlessly into a Jarba?

[Esufer]

I don't give a flying shit if we get this or not now.
I used to be against it, but apparently that enraged a few people.

[ThEoRy]

On 2007-09-09 09:26, Rashiid wrote:

why should others revive me for running aimlessly into a Jarba?




Because that's my job
it's what I do... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Hath_Wrobo]

On 2007-09-09 09:26, Rashiid wrote:
dont really care for it; ill probably still buy scapes and stay alive anyway.

why should others revive me for running aimlessly into a Jarba?



Because this is a team game, not a "stand alone complex." By that, I mean its not supposed to be a game where we each individually try to accomplish the same goal, but more of accomplishing the goal together.

A very good example is if anyone has ever played Halo 2 online. If you join a team slayer game, you can do one of two things. The first is you and all of your teammates can go your separate ways, not communicating, and individually attempting to get as many kills as possible to win the game for your team. The second way is for you and the other members of your team to actually act as a team, supporting each other and watching each other's back. I feel this method is more enjoyable as it doesn't put blame or admiration on any single person for the loss or win, the win/loss rather being the consequences of teamwork and strategy.

And why would this update cause someone to aimlessly run into a Jarba anyway, I mean, its not like the party leader can't boot the person if he sees a pattern of carelessness.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hath_Wrobo on 2007-09-09 09:55 ]</font>

[amtalx]

On 2007-09-09 08:31, Artea wrote:

On 2007-09-09 05:38, amtalx wrote:

On 2007-09-08 20:19, Artea wrote:
I feel bad when it comes to 360 players and Dulk Fakis. Nothing but flying megid and insane foie blasts. Even a friggin' Newman FT can die in one Gaozoran crit. And the megid just speaks for itself. If PC didn't have that patch I'd refuse to run DF because I'd literally lose more money than the reward on each run.



Dulk Fakis is supposed to be hard. In fact, its one of the ONLY missions that actually is hard. I want it to stay that way. With a solid team, you can do this mission without dying. Sure, someone will make a mistake or fall asleep at the wheel, but that will amount to only a few deaths at best. The patch would make this mission "loleasymode". It takes away all the risk.


What it's really taking away is "lolyoulostallyourmeseta" Meseta isn't easy to obtain without spending a LOT of time, and it gets literally blown away from scape dolls in missions where you can die in just one hit. I shouldn't even have to explain Giresta and Moon Atomizers. The whole idea was dumb in the first place and it's painfully obvious.



Point well taken, but I think hard missions like Dulk Fakis balance the risk with the reward. Sure you need a solid strategy and a good team to get through without blowing 40k on scapes, but the reward is chance for good rares (yeaaahhh...) and big pile of meseta. Getting rid of the death penalty destroys the whole risk vs. reward system. With the current system its like "Oh $#!%, I died!...there goes 5k", with the patch its just going to be "Oh well...Ok, where's the Moon action?" Now really lame players can roll in and grab 40k easy. It will take them 2 hours, and they would be better off running S2 Labs but still...



On 2007-09-09 09:33, ThEoRy wrote:

On 2007-09-09 09:26, Rashiid wrote:

why should others revive me for running aimlessly into a Jarba?




Because that's my job
it's what I do... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif



QFT http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Neith]

I still think it's stupid that people don't carry at least a couple of Scapes in the harder missions. Moons cost next to nothing, but by dying without a scape, you're relying on the hope the team carries them. I've seen some people who don't even bother, to save on precious inventory space..

The risk vs reward may be unbalanced now, but there SHOULD be a huge reward for doing Fakis S2, or even HIVE S2 in general. The S-Ranks are virtually non-existant in terms of droprates, and the average player will still spend a ton of money on mates, charges, traps etc. You need a good reward after that to counterbalance the spending you did during the run.

To take it to the extreme, I did one block of Hive S2 with a Fortefighter earlier. It cost me around 20,000 meseta (high usage of mates, charges, buff items). Although in a team your spending will be a lot less, you still need a massive reward to get any real monetary benefits.

Without the death penalty, PSU is a lot more fun. No longer do I have to worry about idiots who decide to trigger Bil De Vear spins, or that stick around De Ragnus when he stamps. It feels more like PSO, where you just revived them, and got on with it, rather than bitching at each other for lowering the rank. What's more, it makes solo slightly more viable. NPC's won't make every mission a C-Rank reward, and it gives options for a player when it's quiet online (which if you're GMT timezone like me, you'll know what I mean.)

One of the things that sucked about PSO BB was the death penalty, where you lost EXP if you died, which was in proportion to your level. Losing thousands of EXP at high level because of something as stupid as Del Lily Megid was a nightmare. I remember getting an unlucky encounter with a Hildetorr at Lv199, which set me back a few hundred thousand EXP. There is no real need for a penalty, especially if Sega want Scapes to be as extortionate as 5,000 a piece. When you're one of the few who doesn't have 99mil on PC/PS2, mass buying scapes was the biggest monetary drain. With no death penalty, there's less need for them (I still carry a couple for harder missions mind), and I can play knowing that I am slowly making some progress.

To be honest, I don't think I could go back to having a death penalty. Looking back at it, it was one of PSU's fundamental flaws.

[KaffeKane]

On 2007-09-09 12:33, UrikoBB3 wrote:

The risk vs reward may be unbalanced now...
To take it to the extreme, I did one block of Hive S2 with a Fortefighter earlier. It cost me around 20,000 meseta (high usage of mates, charges, buff items). Although in a team your spending will be a lot less, you still need a massive reward to get any real monetary benefits...
There is no real need for a penalty, especially if Sega want Scapes to be as extortionate as 5,000 a piece. When you're one of the few who doesn't have 99mil on PC/PS2, mass buying scapes was the biggest monetary drain.
To be honest, I don't think I could go back to having a death penalty. Looking back at it, it was one of PSU's fundamental flaws.


The risk vs. reward factor is unbalanced because of how missions are worth squat for Meseta, when you're losing maybe 1-2 Scape Dolls a mission, and the only way to get money back for that is to get S Rankings on Lab Recovery S2. 11.2k Meseta, the most reward that I've ever seen from a mission to date, woo.

I think that they should change that around by doing this: For how many players there are involved in a mission, divide up the mission point and meseta rewards. The greedy soloers get more out of them because the rewards are worth more when there are fewer players. And people who DON'T care about rewards get jack in a crap. Effectively the risk to reward would see a balance in that way, because traveling in a six person group offers barely any risk at all.

[A2K]

My concern actually lies with the bigger picture here, and the way the game's meseta economy (outside of the US PC/PS2 servers, of course) will change in light of all the crazily high-paying missions and the removal of the scape doll meseta sink. I don't think enough is leaving the system--which, in time, will inevitably result in meseta being worthless, once everyone has more than enough in their inventory but nothing to spend it on.

[KaffeKane]

On 2007-09-09 13:00, A2K wrote:
My concern actually lies with the bigger picture here, and the way the game's meseta economy (outside of the US PC/PS2 servers, of course) will change in light of all the crazily high-paying missions and the removal of the scape doll meseta sink. I don't think enough is leaving the system--which, in time, will inevitably result in meseta being worthless, once everyone has more than enough in their inventory but nothing to spend it on.



Grinding weapons to +10.

[Parn]

On 2007-09-09 13:00, A2K wrote:
My concern actually lies with the bigger picture here, and the way the game's meseta economy (outside of the US PC/PS2 servers, of course) will change in light of all the crazily high-paying missions and the removal of the scape doll meseta sink. I don't think enough is leaving the system--which, in time, will inevitably result in meseta being worthless, once everyone has more than enough in their inventory but nothing to spend it on.
Nail on the head. People hate on the current synth system, but it being the way it is, is the only reason why meseta continues to have value. Scape dolls were just another money sink that is now gone.

I'm curious as to what new money sinks the expansion brings, because if they truly are raising synth rates, meseta will become valueless like it was in PSO, and folks here will proceed to trash talk Sonic Team on how they're incompetent again, even though they keep giving their playerbase exactly what they want.

[F-Gattaca]

and folks here will proceed to trash talk Sonic Team on how they're incompetent again, even though they keep giving their playerbase exactly what they want

It happens even now though, so ...

The reasons I was personally glad for the scape nerf was that I could actually use NPCs and my Partner Machine in combat without them ruining the S-rank due to their inability to use items like the rest of us (except for their seemingly endless supply of scape dolls, even though they still penalize you for that).

It also brought use to other revival items which were useless under the original rules.

I won't deny that the PSU economy NEEDS meseta sinks to keep the economy stable (especially since, unlike PSO, we're mercs who get paid for every mission we do on top of whatever we find). However, I think that the sinks should come in different flavors rather than relying on scape dolls to do that function, since it made other major features of the game unused by players.

I want to see more meseta-consuming photon arts, myself. Hell, I want a Yasminakov 9000M.

[KaffeKane]

On 2007-09-09 13:05, Parn wrote

I'm curious as to what new money sinks the expansion brings, because if they truly are raising synth rates, meseta will become valueless like it was in PSO, and folks here will proceed to trash talk Sonic Team on how they're incompetent again, even though they keep giving their playerbase exactly what they want.



Sonic Team is not usually one step ahead of the playerbase. That's why they get complained against.
They made the game center around mainly one currency, and that was the key mistake. While there may be a trade for rare weapons, armor, and materials, most of the time, the cost is represented by a hefty tag of Meseta because that's what this game requires for the players to get better weapons and improve them, even.

The Casino Volyale will be a money sink for some people, investing in tokens/trying to win more for the rewards there.

I believe I already said "Grinding weapons to +10". Know how much chance that'll take in comparison to a successful weapon synth? What if you only managed to get a particular weapon to +9 and you wanted to be the first one who posts the legendary info on that +10 grind for the information database here? Getting the grinder bases and boards still costs something, you know, and getting the materials to synth a new weapon still costs something.

There will always still be a market for recovery items, so long as people use them.

Although this could be another idea: Make something like the "PD market trade" that PSO players used to have, except have the equivalent to PDs worth outlandish amounts of Meseta rather than be a really rare (or common depending on your luck) find, so that the common stuff is easily accessible, while the really uber stuff would cost a vertiable Fort Knox's worth of Meseta.

If they're going to center this game around Meseta so badly, then they need to gradually make ways for us to get easier access to older stuff, and on the other note of things, gradually include more expensive...in some cases FAR more expensive, things for the rich players to splurge on.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KaffeKane on 2007-09-09 13:27 ]</font>

[A2K]

The thing, come expansion time, weapons aren't going to break. Are there going to be people who will get their weapons to 4 or 7 or what have you and think, "that's good enough for now"? I'm not entirely convinced the desire and will to own +10 weaponry is necessarily universal, either--at least not universal enough to actually balance the economy.

Recovery items don't make much of a dent when you can get 10~25K on high level missions. Scape Dolls are depreciated, of course, and that essentially just leaves stacks of 20 Trimates (10000) primarily--which may not even be entirely necessary if you are or have a capable Resta caster around.

[littleman2347]

we should have it