PSU JP 09/18 Update: Just Analysis

[AC9breaker]

This weeks update for JP PSU saw the implementaion of the Just Attack, Just Counter, and various other things in PSU.

I have classes in a few so I'm only going to talk about Just Attack, as well, I didn't get enough time to mess around with the other things.

First off, just attack is based off of your currently equipped weapons time. The first attack is initiated, once that is started you can choose to continue with a Regular just attack, or a Photon art Just attack. A just attack is a 100% critical hit. Just attacks also cause additional PP recovery. I'm not sure if the amount recovered is definite or what but it is certainly significant and extremely noticeable.

Next point, as I stated before Just Attack is based off of your weapons attack time. Just attack is triggered when you press the buttons at the end of the attack animation. Fists, Daggers, and Sabers seem relatively easy. Swords however are a bit tricky. Haven't messed around with other weapons enough to give an opinion on them.

At first it seemed difficult to tell if we where doing just attack properly but the game lets you know your doing it right subtly. heres how:

http://apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/Videogames/PSU/psu_JA01.jpg
Notice the pink circle around the button I just pressed. All of us should be familiar with that by now.

http://apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/Videogames/PSU/psu_JA02.jpg
Now notice here, the circle seems to be doubled. This is indication that I performed a Just Attack. That attack in particular was a Just Attack Photon Art I performed. The same type of representation is also portrayed with Regular Just attacks.




Now lets review:
1: Just attack is triggered by pressing the desired attack at the end of the weapons attack animation.

2: First hit of a combo is always normal, any following attacks in the combo can be made to Just Attack'D

3: Triggering a just attack causes additional PP recovery. Amount recovered seems to vary.

4: All Just Attack hits are criticals, yes. Even Photon Art Just attacks.

5: To properly tell if one has performed a Just Attack, The attack is represented by Double Circles appearing from the icon of the button that was pressed.

6: Just Attack feature is mega hella awesome and makes PSU over 9000.



Other Quick notes: Just Counter seems similar to Just Attack except, Techs can be used in Just counter. Just Attacks seems limited to only Melee. I speculate Range attacks can be Just be used as Just Counters too.

Teleport casts at Flyer bases now Teleport players to areas for a small fee. The Players are treated as not having there with this update and therefore have to journey to those areas first before they can pay to get there.

Theres a lot more to cover from this update, I'll get more intel on this update as I get the chance and Hopefully try to experiment more with Just Counter and Just Attack.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AC9breaker on 2007-09-18 04:28 ]</font>

[STRANG]

sweet

[Freshellent]

On 2007-09-18 04:24, AC9breaker wrote:


6: Just Attack feature is mega hella awesome and makes PSU over 9000.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AC9breaker on 2007-09-18 04:28 ]</font>

Outstanding. Thanks for the info.

[Lyrise]

Using any attack recovers PP. But since JAs force a critical strike, and criticals ramp up the PP regenerated, you should get more in the end. The type of weapon does change the amount regained, but I'm not sure oif the brand will too. (i.e. 1PP per hit for a spear, 3 for critical. 2-3PP for a sword hit, 7 per critical hit, 21 if you hit all 3).

While JAs are highly damaging, they aren't always useful. For one thing, a JA is performed by chaining the next attack to the very last frame of the previous attack (fighting game freaks will know what I mean when I say we're going to need frame data). For some weapons like sword with huge recoil times, this is a really bad idea unless you have a clean shot at the target, otherwise you'd miss completely (rewarding if you connect, I hit 2700 damage with JA using Gravity Break consistently on grunts, and I'm just a newman); but for stuff with low afterdelay, like daggers and sabers, this is a wonderful thing to use. This goes double for PAs as well, since most of the new PAs on the Japanese servers are slow, and the first generation stuff is usually fast as heck.

[Zael]

Sounds awesome.

[Menochi]

Thanks for the tip, didn't know where to look for confirmation on if I was doing it or not.

Don't evade enough to get good practice in with just counter. Guess it'll be something that I pick up as I play.

Hooray for real hand spear pulling out multi-thousands with robado though. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Rashiid]

so..

basically its well-timed attacks?

interesting. well its not anything bad so im down for it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[EspioKaos]

Awesome. It's great to finally see this stuff in action. Thanks for the info, guys!

[Shiro_Ryuu]

Thanks for the info dude, I'm totally stoked about this.

[panzer_unit]

lol nonstop Tornado Break anyone? It'll be easy to make that move pay for itself I think.

Seems like you want to throw a normal attack out before going into a PA, so you can JA starting with the first hit.

[ne1first]

You know, this Just attack thing kind-of already existed, we just didn't get the guaranteed crit, but if you timed your button presses on all of melee, ranged or techs, you could hit/shoot/cast faster than if you just mashed the attack button. Gettig a guaranteed crit for doing it sounds almost too good to be true though, can't wait...

[PsyGuy]

sounds awesome!

[panzer_unit]

I guess the PT crit bonus doesn't count for a whole lot any more.

[Menochi]

On 2007-09-18 07:19, ne1first wrote:
You know, this Just attack thing kind-of already existed, we just didn't get the guaranteed crit, but if you timed your button presses on all of melee, ranged or techs, you could hit/shoot/cast faster than if you just mashed the attack button. Gettig a guaranteed crit for doing it sounds almost too good to be true though, can't wait...



The timing isn't the same at all. YOu have to let attacks last longer before hitting the next attack button. Theres a pause at the end of the weapon animation, and thats when you'd press the button. It takes a little feel and seeing, I'll probably hop on my fF and make a video if noone else gets around to it once I've sorted out the stat fiasco.

[Inazuma]

you can use just counter w/ techs and even guns, but it doesnt do criticals like blades do. it does seem a slight bit faster to attack but thats it. im sure im doing it correctly cuz of the double circle too.

[Lamak]

God I hate my fucking school, on another note can't wait until we get this update. Daggers will finally get a good extra special type thing

[Arika]

I just want to know if Just counter an perform PA or not?

[donkeybeatz]

On 2007-09-18 08:45, Arika wrote:
I just want to know if Just counter an perform PA or not?


Yes you can.

[Arika]

cool , this iwll make eva really good now, but just ...um you can do both 3 part right ?

[Menochi]

Your first attack will be normal whether you start with a PA or a normal attack. Every following attack can crit if you just attack, and you can even sequence break. N/JN/PA/JPA and get crits for each of the just attacks. It definately added a whole new layer to melee combos.
At optimal you can N/JN/NJA/JPA/JPA/(two handed weapons)JPA resulting in a long long string of crits. Just counter can also chain right into a just combo.

[omegapirate2k]

On 2007-09-18 09:07, Menochi wrote:
At optimal you can N/JN/NJA/JPA/JPA/(two handed weapons)JPA resulting in a long long string of crits. Just counter can also chain right into a just combo.


So basically its fucking awesome then.

[Agnostic187]

Any specifics on % on the weapons and how much they have changed. Very interested to hear.

[Agnostic187]

And then I notice what this topic meant, was about the new "Just" system. So I'll leave >.>

[Bliven]

I'm really anxious to find out the synthesizing differences, but calm down, people will get to stuff as they can, and I'm sure they will keep us updated.

[amtalx]

Is it me or can you just "Just" all day long and never loose PP and critical the hell out of everything?

[Fredrick]

On 2007-09-18 09:53, amtalx wrote:
Is it me or can you just "Just" all day long and never loose PP and critical the hell out of everything?



.... Well that seems pretty unbalanced. They need to make techers cast faster to compensate >:|

[Menochi]

From my dagger, any crits I do with my PA don't regen the pp, but if you N/JN/JN before doing JPA/JPA you'll pretty much stay on top of your pp. My fortegunner used her single dagger, now level 11, on pretty much everything, resulting in a few deaths, but good practice with just.
With my 14% ice dagger and level 11 buten, ignoring the assraping I got from the sword vahra's fire breath, I outdamaged my ice shotgun pretty easily.


Synthesis differences are listed in another topic, but nothing exstensive. That'll take quite a while.

[NexGen]

With all this "just" chaining, it will really help make up for lack of melee on hybrid classes that can't get their PA's up to FF levels. Hrmmmm....interesting http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Thinking about it though, WT is already getting to 30....but for GT and ForteG, this might be fun

[Jaspaller]

This... is... GODLY!!! Damn, I can't wait till this comes out, I'll finally be able to ENJOY playing PSU again when it comes out... maybe.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jaspaller on 2007-09-18 10:46 ]</font>

[Menochi]

On 2007-09-18 10:31, NexGen wrote:
With all this "just" chaining, it will really help make up for lack of melee on hybrid classes that can't get their PA's up to FF levels. Hrmmmm....interesting http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Thinking about it though, WT is already getting to 30....but for GT and ForteG, this might be fun



Not to mention it'll make the pp cost of melee PAs less harsh because you won't have to wait for the pp tics to use a PA that doesn't get the fF discount.

[amtalx]

Ok, now this doesn't seem so broken. Although, it would be amusing to see people PA criting all day long without losing PP...until I quit since I'm a gunner. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ShadowDragon28]

Awesome. I can't wait to master the new feature. Sounds really sweet and kick-@**. I can only imagine what Just attack combos are like with twin daggers and twin sabers.

[Zorafim]

Can you Just-Attack without a target? If so, it seems like you can spam normal attacks to regain PP in between rooms.

It looks like I'm going to have to find a new way to play now. I just got my palette the way I wanted it, too...

[Pengfishh]

Mmm, JA Buten Shuren-zan will be amazing, I think.

[donkeybeatz]

On 2007-09-18 11:48, Zorafim wrote:
Can you Just-Attack without a target? If so, it seems like you can spam normal attacks to regain PP in between rooms.

It looks like I'm going to have to find a new way to play now. I just got my palette the way I wanted it, too...


Technically yes, but you still have to hit your target in order to regain PP.

[AC9breaker]

Now onto Just Counter.

Just counter is an attack that is activated once the player press the desired attack at the right time during a block animation. Melee, Range and Techs can all be used in a Just Counter. Melee attacks from Just Counters are 100% criticals. Just counter attacks as Range or Techs however are not criticals. At the moment, it is unclear weather Just Counter attacks from range or Techs receive any kind of bonuses but there doesn't appear to be indication that they do. They only observable bonus I was able to make was a quicker then normal reaction time.

Some images to illustrate Just Counter.

Here's my character commencing a Just Counter attack with my Handgun.
http://apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/Videogames/PSU/psu_JC01.jpg



It was speculated when we first heard about Just Counter that perhaps we would be temporarily invincible. This image should bring to rest any further speculation.

http://apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/Videogames/PSU/psu_JC02.jpg

I was still getting hit and even had my Just Counter Attacks Canceled by the blocking animation.
Just Counter doesn't seem as practical as Just Attack, however I think its because it seems to require a bit more practice and more thought on when to use it and what types of attack to use for it then Just Attack. It reminds me a bit of Street Fighter 3rd Strike and the Parry system. If you where skilled enough you could parry a hit from a combo and perform your super combo canceling out their combo and doing massive damage at the same time. But it all relied on your knowledge of what you can avoid and what you can't avoid. Its certainly interesting.


Oh yeah, I know this doesn't have anything to do with Just Attack and Just Counter but...

Guess what job this is!
http://apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/Videogames/PSU/protranser2.jpg

[HFlowen]

On 2007-09-18 17:32, AC9breaker wrote:

Guess what job this is!
http://apocalypse-tribe.com/ac9breaker/Videogames/PSU/protranser2.jpg

Finally!

now to check what they changed stat-wise...

[omegapirate2k]

I'm glad to see they boosted (and at level 10 it will make a huge difference) protranser attack, I might even be bothered to finish levelling protranser on my main after they get these new stats and weapon ranks.

[HFlowen]

Edit: nevermind, apparently i don't know how to use a calculator.

I'll list PT 10 stat changes in a second.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HFlowen on 2007-09-18 17:58 ]</font>

[AC9breaker]

[Video Footage] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TBszScZJ1I)

[HFlowen]

Did you do a critical counter resta?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HFlowen on 2007-09-18 19:03 ]</font>

[Dein]

Just a question AC9, how much PP did you get back per hit with Sabers and Daggers? The video was too blurry to properly see the small numbers for PP.

[AC9breaker]

Dj_Donkey made the video, so only he can answer those questions.

[Dein]

Ah... Well the video was at least nice to see that JA affects the second and third hits in a combo but I've had no luck getting much info about the PP regen. Thanks for posting the video up though.

[Brisk]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a157/brisk_/PSU/PostUpdateStats.jpg

Guntecher 10 Male Hume 100

[beatrixkiddo]

Guntechers, who have been the best with bows for a long time?

[donkeybeatz]

On 2007-09-18 19:17, Dein wrote:
Ah... Well the video was at least nice to see that JA affects the second and third hits in a combo but I've had no luck getting much info about the PP regen. Thanks for posting the video up though.


[Just Attack PP Regen - Dagger] (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6sVQnCbQOCg)

It's still a bit blurry but it should give you an idea of how much you get back (at least for daggers).

[Freshellent]

Gah,I can't say it enough. This is downright outstanding. I'm tripping so hard about all this new info. Maybe this will justify my use of an arcade stick when I play this game now.

Eitherway,it's nice to be rewarded for playing smart now.

Thanks for all the vids,pics and clear information. I'm very excited.

lol @ AC9 I can't wait to whore out PT again. I had such a blast playing that class.

[Menochi]

I liked PT before the update so I find the majority of the changes unnecessary. But trap vision and just attack are fun additions, along with cheaper traps. In AoI synthable traps and EX trap exclusives.

[ne1first]

If you Just Attack with a PA that has many hits, say Buten, do all hits get crit or only the first?

[Breadmaker]

SO S RANKS HAVE BETTER JUST ATK RATES?

[Dein]

On 2007-09-18 22:22, donkeybeatz wrote:
[Just Attack PP Regen - Dagger] (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6sVQnCbQOCg)

It's still a bit blurry but it should give you an idea of how much you get back (at least for daggers).



That looks like about 3 pp per hit on normal strikes with dagger and 6 pp on critical strikes. That's a pretty good amount to regen per hit.

[PsyGuy]

On 2007-09-19 03:59, ne1first wrote:
If you Just Attack with a PA that has many hits, say Buten, do all hits get crit or only the first?

]

Yeah how do multi hits in PA combos work?

[omegapirate2k]

On 2007-09-19 09:19, PsyGuy wrote:

On 2007-09-19 03:59, ne1first wrote:
If you Just Attack with a PA that has many hits, say Buten, do all hits get crit or only the first?



Yeah how do multi hits in PA combos work?



Last I saw every hit in the PA is a critical.

[Agnostic187]

So do you have to tap right, down etc or the old PA and then the button?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Agnostic187 on 2007-09-19 09:44 ]</font>

[AC9breaker]

On 2007-09-19 09:42, Agnostic187 wrote:
So do you have to tap right, down etc or the old PA and then the button?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Agnostic187 on 2007-09-19 09:44 ]</font>


No, you wait till the Sega logo pops up then after it dissapears you press up up down down left left right right, A, B ,C then start. Then when sonic comes up you should hear a ding and...

No but seriously, I'm not really sure I understand what you're asking. Are you inquiring if we have to press additional buttons besides our attack buttons to do just attack? If thats what your asking no. Its all about button timing. You have to time your button pressing so that you press the attack at the very end of the attack animation. If i press my attack too early, it won't be a JA and if I wait too much my character will revert back to his defualt weapon stance


Edit: Yes, Omega is correct. All hits from a multi-hit PA will be critical hits.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AC9breaker on 2007-09-19 10:19 ]</font>

[Menochi]

Just my 2 cents and to summarize after playing fF this morning.

Each melee weapon handles differently, and thus requires different timing to just with. Same with each PAs, its a whole new level for melee users who want to be on top of things.

A just counter can chain into just attack resulting in a full combo of crits if you choose. You can skip or miss getting a just on one attack, but do it on any subsequent attacks. This also brings up the ability to do different PAs with justing at the highest damage point, and going through the others as fast as possible. (Yes, it is faster to just spam the button, much faster, but isn't a just unless the button is pressed at the last 3 frames of each attack)

You can just counter with anything, though only melee attacks get the crit bonus. It does speed up casting/shooting because it cancels the evade animation early. You cannot force your character to evade by a well timed button, you simply have to be on your toes in order to just counter.

Nanoblasts can just attack as well as just counter. So with this, even nanoblasts become much more interesting. High power crits with the attack one? unhindered just spam with invinsibility? Just counter with the evasion one? Or reliable, constantly hitting (instead of missing) with the accuracy?

A lot of PAs were balanced with just in mind, thus changing a few things around, but they're all still quite good or better than you'll be used to from my experience and memory.

[DAMASCUS]

I hate button mashing so I have always tried to get my button timing just right to get a combo out. This will be interesting to see if I even have to try to get Just Attack to work or if it just fits in nicely with the way I normally play. If it does I will be a killing machine right from the get go.

[Menochi]

I can almost gurantee you'll have to adjust. Unless you're the type that likes to let each and every attack draw out the full length, each and everytime, its a bit different. The timing for just regular pressing of the button between the attacks is much, much larger.

[beatrixkiddo]

Yeah it's a lot of work, and it's easy to get distracted about the enemies around you if you're focusing on timing.

[Menochi]

Or dambarta covers your screen. I've only got one PA down to where I can feel it without needing to see, and even then, I still miss on occasion.

I find myself watching the attack buttons more than the attack sometimes, just so I can get the timing rather than the visual (monsters in the way, etc, etc)

[beatrixkiddo]

yeah xD

I focus so hard on the timing that enemies hit me from behind or the enemy moves out of the way entirely http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Menochi]

single claw? Almost flawless.
Everything else? Need to watch.
Just counter? Sometimes I get lucky....

[beatrixkiddo]

Just Counter is a bit annoying. Unless you assume you're always gonna block, you never know to hit it or not...

[Menochi]

Just counter is more for newmans from my experience. Their EVP actually is somewhat reliable in determining what kind of attacks have a good chance of setting off the EVP, but you still need to not be hitting the button at any time once the EVP animation starts, and be ready to counter back at the end.

[Sol-Edge]

Does Just Counter work if you are equipped with any weapon?

[beatrixkiddo]

Yeah I only really bother when I've got a good chance of dodging. My Newman usually dodges most attacks from things like Pola, Kog Nadd, etc, so that's mainly when I do it.

It was fun doing Festa Beta on C today... Grinna machinegun is constant block, I got a few rapidfire digas off but they were aimed at the wallx D

[AC9breaker]

On 2007-09-19 19:19, Menochi wrote:
Or dambarta covers your screen. I've only got one PA down to where I can feel it without needing to see, and even then, I still miss on occasion.

I find myself watching the attack buttons more than the attack sometimes, just so I can get the timing rather than the visual (monsters in the way, etc, etc)



It would be more helpful if you watched your characters animation then the double button circle flash. There are ques for each weapons attack combo. I find it much more reliable to look for the ques then wait for timing since my PC is pretty shitty compared to other peoples PCs and when I get slow down, looking for the que proves to be much more reliable. Once servers go back up I'll see if I can post some demostration images for sword since it seems to be one of the more challenging ones. Hopefully I'll have Fortefighter unlocked soon and I'll work on the other weps.

[Menochi]

Since I never solo, I tend to have a lot of stuff going on and so its hard to even look. Unless I want to look at the floor the whole time, I pretty much just have to rely on the crit sound or my button appearance on if I got it off. Thus, I can do the single claw and the one PA I have for it flawlessly, while the rest I have to rely on sight, which ends up obstructed 70% of the time. If not by the enemy I'm attacking, then by something else.

I'm sure if I play with my fF for more than just 4 hours and spend a lot of time with the other melee weapons/PAs, I'll get it down for all of them. my twin harisen and piko axe are close, and those are being based off of sound (which might be the same with single claw but its not as noticeable)

[Pengfishh]

So considering the addition of Just Counter, does blocking occur more often? Has EVP been recalculated enough to consistently guard or can we pretty much rely on rarely, if ever, using this as a non-Newman?

[Menochi]

EVP is about the same in terms of blockability. Depending on the enemy and attack, you can sometimes plan to evade. And just because you don't get crits if you're a gunner/techer, doesn't mean that just counter is useless to you. I pretty much double my rate of fire against most small enemies with my shotgun when I just counter their attacks.

[RadiantLegend]

I can't wait for this update. I know most of the timing for every melee weapon (except noobsabers) in my sleep.

[Menochi]

You say that now, but wait until you get it. The just attack timign is fairly drawn out on a lot of weapons. Just think that yo're actually building up strength behind each attack, winding up a little harder for each one.

[RadiantLegend]

Trust me over 1k hrs on fF i think i would know.