PSU-PC/PS2: Hikai Shuha-zan combo 2 a disappointment?

[pRoJeCtFaMe]

well a friends of mine and i were leveling this new PA and we both got it to level 11. we both agreed that the 2nd combo was a big disappointment because its really hard to hit an enemy(unless your surrounded but even with that its hard to hit).

For those that havent tried this PA, the 2nd combo does a roll back and charges forward(like sonic)to do a big damage but the problem is, he doesnt come back far enough to hit an enemy.

is anyone not having trouble with this?

[Zorafim]

I think that's the major complaint about the PA.

[HFlowen]

I kind of saw this coming just from seeing the videos of that PA in action.

[pRoJeCtFaMe]

well its a great PA but, the end of the 1st combo does a knockdown effect, the 2nd combo doesnt reach where the fallen enemy lays. ;(

[Gryffin]

What? I absolutely ADORE this PA.. every aspect of it. Its amazing if your in close quarter, or in a crowd.

Just work with he controls, and you'll get the hang of rotating about, I can hit 3 enemies 3 times each with the roll portion, and send them across a room, leaving them open for another blow.. It's spectacular.

[HFlowen]

On 2007-09-28 22:40, pRoJeCtFaMe wrote:
well its a great PA but, the end of the 1st combo does a knockdown effect, the 2nd combo doesnt reach where the fallen enemy lays. ;(

Sounds like Bogga Danga.

[-Ryuki-]

Do what the Regrents users have been doing. Knock them into a corner to use that PA efficiently.

[Kion]

i love this PA. i haven't seen the second combo, but the first move is like the second move from buten just with more hits. as GT only has level 10 sklls, I love actually being able to rack up damage with a melee weapon.

[Xaeris]

I love Hikai. At first, I didn't appreciate the second step, but when I saw how to make the damn thing work, I made it my business to work on using it on command. The idea is to use the first step so that the last hit (the knockdown) lands just behind your intended target. When you go into the spin dash, ideally, you'll roll backwards into the enemy's back, thus using it as an impromptu wall to keep you from moving back.

Troublesome, but worth it; that launch is no joke.

[Weeaboolits]

On 2007-09-28 22:46, HFlowen wrote:

On 2007-09-28 22:40, pRoJeCtFaMe wrote:
well its a great PA but, the end of the 1st combo does a knockdown effect, the 2nd combo doesnt reach where the fallen enemy lays. ;( Sounds like Bogga Danga.Bogga Danga does reach, unless enemies got lighter online.

[HFlowen]

The leap reaches, the hand spring doesn't

[Fure_Rakune]

On 2007-09-29 00:11, Kion wrote:
i love this PA. i haven't seen the second combo, but the first move is like the second move from buten just with more hits. as GT only has level 10 sklls, I love actually being able to rack up damage with a melee weapon.


As a fellow guntecher, I second this message.

[imfanboy]

So, it's good for a GT? How many hits does it have?

[Shishi-O]

the first part is a bit much for the first part, you know?

it does a lot of damage.

[Kimil]

I only have the first part so far, but It VEEERY good at racking up damage, no complaint there.
From what I've seen on Vids, the Second Part Should Work better:

1) Against a Wall
2) Against a big Enemie
(Much like Yoyos)

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I really love this PA, and I truly believed that the 1st move alone gives this the potential to be one of the best PAs in the game, its just so awesome and tears things apart, and its fast as hell. But yeah, that 2nd move kind of sux, it kind of sends you back, and you more likely than not won't reach them unless you trap them in a corner.

[Dragwind]

It's sad people complain about a PA not being easy to use. Once again I quote, "IZ PSU 2 E Z?!"

Anyhow, the 2nd combo of this art actually takes a bit of manuevering to land the coupe de grace.

If you notice before you start the 2nd combo, you "pull back" somewhat like a slingshot, then "launch." The trick to this is to rotate while you are pullling back. Once you are in that position, you have roughly enough time to rotate yourself into a 45 degree angle change.

This can then be used to slaughter the enemies that are running towards you at either side, and if you position yourself even before the last hit of the 1st combo starts, you can completely about-face yourself to launch the 2nd combo on the enemies behind you.


Basically, always realize that you will be sent back once you reach the 2nd combo, so position yourlsef accordingly. The 2nd combo is not meant to be used as an all out frontal assault hence the reduced range.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dragwind on 2007-09-29 05:18 ]</font>

[ZodiacNKnight]

I think it's a great PA.
The second part requires some practice, that is all.
Like Drag said you need to position yourself pior the second form.

This would be one example:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/FallenAngelicLeo/DaggerULTpa.png

[Dragwind]

I love you for posting that. That's also a good tactic of hitting an enemy near you with it. It takes a bit of practice, but once you get it down its well worth it.

[Gen2000]

Yeah at first I was thrown off by the "Spindash" part but surprisingly it takes some effort to use compared to other PAs. Like mention above you have to "turn" when doing it so your character doesn't roll back far or at all.

If good enough sometimes you'll get to the point when you get can roll backwards into enemy then spindash right at em.

I believe because of that extra execution to be effective though it won't be well liked. Combo 1 is great by itself because of the high ATP mod and knockdown on Combo 1 like Buten so it's still not a PA to be ignored imo.

[pRoJeCtFaMe]

This PA is similar to assault crush's final combo..u do a roll back to gain some speed and release with a fury.

for those who uses assault crush knows how lethal that PA is. I was expecting the dagger PA to have the same effect. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Tita]

i've been using it to send large mobs flying into the air and its really really useful on Olgohmon mobs.
spammed MD S2 to level the dagger PAs and after a couple runs, i was able to really get the hang of Hikai Shuha-zan's knock up and blow back properties. i'm not dissapointed http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

just pay a little more attention http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[KaffeKane]

On 2007-09-29 01:32, Xaeris wrote:
I love Hikai. At first, I didn't appreciate the second step, but when I saw how to make the damn thing work, I made it my business to work on using it on command. The idea is to use the first step so that the last hit (the knockdown) lands just behind your intended target. When you go into the spin dash, ideally, you'll roll backwards into the enemy's back, thus using it as an impromptu wall to keep you from moving back.

Troublesome, but worth it; that launch is no joke.


This is cool. Your quote's going into my Fortegunner guide for Meele PAs to pick. Especially since FG gets like, 20 skills cap when the system update comes?

[imfanboy]

Yes, they do.

Now, how many hits does the first part of the combo have? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

First part? 4 hits to 2 targets, I think.



Anyway, I only got Hikai to like 8 or something. It's nice so far, but I still think Buten wins out for overall effectiveness, with the greater number of hits and all.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2007-09-29 13:45, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
First part? 4 hits to 2 targets, I think.



Anyway, I only got Hikai to like 8 or something. It's nice so far, but I still think Buten wins out for overall effectiveness, with the greater number of hits and all.



It's four hits on two targets, you're right.

Buten wins out for being easier to use, but it doesn't serve the same purpose. This PA is great defensively, you just can't use the second part whenever you want. The "spin-dash" is useful when you have enemies coming to stab you in the side/back.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Agreed.

Also, something else I forgot to mention. This may be only coincidental, but I found Hikai to get canceled by enemy hits much less often than Buten.

[Sgt_Shligger]

On 2007-09-29 14:06, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
Agreed.

Also, something else I forgot to mention. This may be only coincidental, but I found Hikai to get canceled by enemy hits much less often than Buten.



I also agree, though I think it's due to the PA's speed. The first hit of Hikai resembles Buten's second strike animation but it's much faster. It strikes like Buten's first hit though (4 hits, two enemies, knockdown.)

Buten does more damage since it's second strike hits more targets but Hikai works better defensively at the cost of some damage. The speed alone is why it can still compete with Buten for damage.