Carrying Scape Dolls

[Googlebonker]

Where do you stand on this issue?

I enter missions with 10 Scape Dolls. I find it rude to go into a party and expect partymates to revive my character every time he or she gets incapacitated. To me, it's QUITE annoying to see someone not bring Scape Dolls and expect their partymates to use their items to revive them over and over, especially if the incapacitated one starts complaining about how long the it's taking to complete missions or keeps getting repeatedly incapacitated.

[-Ryuki-]

To me, it's quite annoying for people to whine and complain about party members dying on the PC/PS2 servers.

First off, there's the death penalty that changed. Because of this death penalty change, Giresta is not longer useless, and Moons actually have usage. If at all, you find this death penalty change to be "annoying", make a petition to Sega and tell them to either give everyone meseta to fund for those scapes, or to bring back the old death penalty.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RyukiZero on 2007-10-08 19:48 ]</font>

[mizukage]

On 2007-10-08 19:08, Googlebonker wrote:
Where do you stand on this issue?

I enter missions with 10 Scape Dolls. I find it rude to go into a party and expect partymates to revive my character every time he or she gets incapacitated. To me, it's QUITE annoying to see someone not bring Scape Dolls and expect their partymates to use their items to revive them over and over, especially if the incapacitated one starts complaining about how long the it's taking to complete missions or keeps getting repeatedly incapacitated.


The idea of teamwork is to heal/revive each other during the missions. However, I think scapedolls are awesome too.

[xennec]

I usually don't carry scapes and I will most of the time pay people back for moons they use on me. You can either pay 5000 or 350 meseta to be revived. I choose the latter.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

I don't bother to carry them anymore. There's no point.

[-Ryuki-]

On 2007-10-08 19:21, xennec wrote:
I usually don't carry scapes and I will most of the time pay people back for moons they use on me. You can either pay 5000 or 350 meseta to be revived. I choose the latter.

If you do S2 missions, that 5K a pop adds up to a hefty sum, compared to .350 a pop.

[ljkkjlcm9]

let's see

one scape 5000 meseta
10 moons, 3500 meseta....

seems like an obvious choice

THE JACKEL

[GunnerGoddess]

meh :/ only a pain if someone dies every 2 minutes and not doing much damage to begin with

[DanMalak]

Even though scapes cost alot more then to be revived for free, when your doing missions with bosses at the end (especially hard bosses) you dont want to take the chance to die and not get any exp from your teammates killing the boss while your dead. Which is why I always bring 10 scapes http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Konstanse_Xx]

I don't bring Scapes, and I don't give money to the people who revive me for a few reasons.

I don't die really at all(megid though >_>;;), and Moons Drop during the missions as well, I mean yeesh meseta drops are 500+ sometimes, I don't think many cares if they waste 350 on someone. XD

EDIT: I changed a word. >_>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Konstanse_Xx on 2007-10-08 19:38 ]</font>

[McLaughlin]

On 2007-10-08 19:11, RyukiZero wrote:
To me, it's quite annoying for people to whine and complain about party members dying.

First off, there's the death penalty that changed. Because of this death penalty change, Giresta is not longer useless, and Moons actually have usage. If at all, you find this death penalty change to be "annoying", make a petition to Sega and tell them to either give everyone meseta to fund for those scapes, or to bring back the old death penalty.



360 players don't have the patch yet, so your point doesn't have much bearing on several members here.

360 users are required to bring them on missions where obtaining an S Rank is a primary objective. Otherwise, we go broke.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Obsidian_Knight on 2007-10-08 19:47 ]</font>

[Schubalts]

Not using a Scape Doll is far more economical then using one(unless you're on the Xbox server).

5000 meseta for ONE person
or
350 meseta for (up to)FIVE people?

[Wallin]

For the True Darkness A mission, I find that Dulk Fakis can own me if I get paralyzed or if I stand in the wrong place at the wrong time. The exp is slow enough as it is, and I am not about to miss out on 2k exp or whatever just because someone didn't feel like running to revive me before someone kills him.

I see all the time where someone dies and no one in the party lifts a finger to do anything but continue killing the boss. So anyone on the team who doesn't want to "waste" money on scape dolls is fine with me, but it's also not my fault if the boss dies while they're still eating dirt.

[-Ryuki-]

Post editted.

And yeah, I see Wallin's point. I've missed out on.. probably 6K exp today for dying before Fakis, but then again, there wasn't any time to get Moon'd due to Fakis dying a second or two right after.

[Zorafim]

You know how, when you leave your parent's house, you do all the stuff your parents told you not to do?

Yeah, same thing here.

[XDeathX]

On 2007-10-08 19:27, DanMalak wrote:
Even though scapes cost alot more then to be revived for free, when your doing missions with bosses at the end (especially hard bosses) you dont want to take the chance to die and not get any exp from your teammates killing the boss while your dead. Which is why I always bring 10 scapes http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif


Speak only for yourselves, not us capped people.

I bring 1 scape or 2 to satify lead. Thats all. Not doing Fakis or Magas S2 with 10 scapes. 50K

[Schubalts]

Real teammates would revive you at the first available chance. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif

[Wallin]

On 2007-10-08 20:02, Schubalts wrote:
Real teammates would revive you at the first available chance. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif



I think some of the time people honestly don't notice. If you've never played a healer at all before in an MMO, there's usually not a reason to keep an eye on the health bars. I've seen similar situations in other games where the party would be following the leader and one member would get stuck, lag, or get lost and no one even noticed.

And then there are the people who are trigger happy and just don't give a darn as long as they can keep mashing the attack buttons with that creepy gleam in their eyes... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Omega_Weltall]

This shit pisses me off when people don't carry moons and expect everyone to carry 50k worth of scape dolls every misison. my main is a Newman Fortecher and if a Carrguine even LOOKS at me I die, and not to mention Megid. And if you expect me to spend my entire mission reward on fucking scapes? COME ON! Not everyone have eleventy billion Haxeta! Sure i'll carry 4 or 5 but in some situations I cant avoid getting hit. and Resta takes a while to cast and sometimes I get smacked in mid cast. One time I had someone bitch cause i used items instead of Resta to heal my self quickly.... FUBARs... GAWD!!!

[Wallin]

I vote for S and S2 rank HSM to be implemented, then you don't need moons or scapes. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[-Ryuki-]

On 2007-10-08 20:06, Wallin wrote:

On 2007-10-08 20:02, Schubalts wrote:
Real teammates would revive you at the first available chance. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_mad.gif



I think some of the time people honestly don't notice. If you've never played a healer at all before in an MMO, there's usually not a reason to keep an eye on the health bars. I've seen similar situations in other games where the party would be following the leader and one member would get stuck, lag, or get lost and no one even noticed.

And then there are the people who are trigger happy and just don't give a darn as long as they can keep mashing the attack buttons with that creepy gleam in their eyes... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Both, quoted for truth.

[Kaloa]

I still carry around 10 scape dolls, but that's because I play alone 99% of the time. There's rarely anyone there to revive me.

In a party setting I'd imagine that I'd still carry my scape dolls with me. There always the chance that none of my party members will have moons, and since I play FT and am largely a support character, I'd like to be able to get right back up if I die and go back to supporting my team rather than having to wait for somebody to come to my aid. I wouldn't be bothered at all by having to revive other members. I just don't want them to have to worry about me. ^.^

[BanF]

I carry both dolls and moons. I'm nowhere near the level cap though I do S-rank missions regularly, and never have more than 150k at any time, but I don't consider dolls to be "too expensive"; I consider them a safeguard and a way not to overburden everyone else in the party, who might be busy not trying to die themselves to notice you are down. That said, I have strange luck and whenever I solo for an hour or so I will find at least one doll (once I found two in a group of three boxes!) so I don't have to spend too much on them; I have so many in fact I regularly have 10 on my PM and a couple more in the common box, in addition to those I'm running around with. Now, pretty much no one plays looking to die, which is why it generally doesn't bother me using moons on someone, not even if I run out; of course, if that happens it means that either we're doing something wrong, or that the dying player is biting more than he/she can chew.

[nooblet]

I carry maybe 2-3 scape dolls to some far away place. After those are done I dont really bother stocking up unless Im soloing. Also I carry moon X, I seen to find them a lot so might as well use the good stuff.

[Hikage818]

i carry dolls and scapes, though that may be a side affect from playing a PSO HUcast where i needed to bring a full set of heals into almost any mission i played.
plus i like jumping right back up from death instead of laying around waiting who knows how long for someone to moon me

[l_Will_l]

I dont carry scapes. sorry i never got any haxeta i cant afford them. And im capped so i dont mind waiting for someone to moon me back to life. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif and when im a techer im mainly a healer. anyone that has played with me here knows that. so i think all the money us techers save you hunters in trimates more than makes up for the one slow moon that you use. i believe that if everyone carried moons and not scapes, then ppl would be on the reviving alot faster. i blame sega for putting scape dolls in npc shops. i mean even if they just put the board in the synth shop that would turn down the usage of them alot more and it would work more towards teamwork. but thats just my 2 cents

[Mystil]

I'll still use them. If I run out in a party, obviously theres nothing I can do about it, until I get to the item NPC.

[Nia]

what is ur player name so I can BL you, googlebonker?

[Sasamichan]

I don't expect people to carry 10 scapes all the time, but I do expect them to carry at least 1. The only way i'm gonna be carrying moons is that if the loot is set on random or set in order.

[mvffin]

I play on 360 so naturally I have 7-10 scapes always. I never buy moons, but i keep what i find, so i usually have 10 of each moon as well. if someone dies with no scape, i usually moon them.

[Jainsea]

ahh the scape question, lolz. Im kinda with both on this side. Just depends on the mission. Real example: Friend and I were invited to True Darkness
S2 run. Tottaly party memebers four and not a Fo type among us XD. im going as FF pulling my own weight, everyone else above lv90 I'm lv88. So
the person dies in B2 1st room(no scapes) we kill the remaining few then we revive. Well instead of the "hey ty!" we get a "next time revive b4 clearing out the room" im like wtf I'm alrdy po'd because she's ungrateful and before hand she called
like pretty much all the rares that dropped there and she isnt leader. So she complains all the way to Falkis why she doesnt need scapes and we're like it would help if u carry just a few, expecailly during the Falkis fight which she complained during too, blamed us because WE were making her argue causing her to die. We spend more time running to her corpse reviving her instead of attacking Falkis. Thank god he didnt cheese that Metor attack on us. During the fight shes saying your suppose to help your teammates etc etc! Put moons on your pallet. I got my
pallet just the way I like it tyvm. I have sols, healing items and Agtaride. I'm not the quickest person going in my menu for a moon(b/c of lag) I dont have to alter my pallet b/c someone is plain out lazy and just refused to buy 1 scape. I can understand if this person isreally struggling with meseta but this person had 100mil. No excuse to buy just 1. I've revieved plenty of people before but when ppl like this come along be glad we revive you at all =/ So I'm divided on this one. If megid is involved and no Fo's around maybe a few scapes wont be a bad idea maybe?? that just my opinion though..

[ashley50]

On 2007-10-08 19:08, Googlebonker wrote:
Where do you stand on this issue?

I enter missions with 10 Scape Dolls. I find it rude to go into a party and expect partymates to revive my character every time he or she gets incapacitated. To me, it's QUITE annoying to see someone not bring Scape Dolls and expect their partymates to use their items to revive them over and over, especially if the incapacitated one starts complaining about how long the it's taking to complete missions or keeps getting repeatedly incapacitated.


Well...if you want EVERYONE to carry scape dolls ALL THE TIME.

Then you should switch to 360, where the death penalty is still in effect.

[bloodflowers]

On the 360 people still get kicked and blacklisted for not bringing scapes in, and getting killed. I'm hoping we just get a modified version so that NPC deaths won't count, because I don't want to play with lazy careless idiots with no fear of death.

[l_Will_l]

On 2007-10-09 01:28, Jainesa wrote:
ahh the scape question, lolz. Im kinda with both on this side. Just depends on the mission. Real example: Friend and I were invited to True Darkness
S2 run. Tottaly party memebers four and not a Fo type among us XD. im going as FF pulling my own weight, everyone else above lv90 I'm lv88. So
the person dies in B2 1st room(no scapes) we kill the remaining few then we revive. Well instead of the "hey ty!" we get a "next time revive b4 clearing out the room" im like wtf I'm alrdy po'd because she's ungrateful and before hand she called
like pretty much all the rares that dropped there and she isnt leader. So she complains all the way to Falkis why she doesnt need scapes and we're like it would help if u carry just a few, expecailly during the Falkis fight which she complained during too, blamed us because WE were making her argue causing her to die. We spend more time running to her corpse reviving her instead of attacking Falkis. Thank god he didnt cheese that Metor attack on us. During the fight shes saying your suppose to help your teammates etc etc! Put moons on your pallet. I got my
pallet just the way I like it tyvm. I have sols, healing items and Agtaride. I'm not the quickest person going in my menu for a moon(b/c of lag) I dont have to alter my pallet b/c someone is plain out lazy and just refused to buy 1 scape. I can understand if this person isreally struggling with meseta but this person had 100mil. No excuse to buy just 1. I've revieved plenty of people before but when ppl like this come along be glad we revive you at all =/ So I'm divided on this one. If megid is involved and no Fo's around maybe a few scapes wont be a bad idea maybe?? that just my opinion though..




i agree with you whole heartedly jainesa

[Tetsaru]

Gah, I was actually blacklisted by someone at the Dulk Fakis co-op mission a few days ago because people kept dying and I told them that maybe they should start carrying scapes...

THEY REVIVE YOU INSTANTLY WITH FULL HEALTH. Why shouldn't you carry them... because they're expensive!? Bah, as many people as I see with buttloads more meseta than I do, I swear... Also, keep in mind that only Moon Atomizer X's restore ALL of your health - regular ones only keep you in the near-death zone, which still puts you at risk of dying AGAIN. And unfortunately (unless things change), you can't buy Moon Atomizer X's, can you?

Here's how I think of it: Let's say oh noes, a random Megid spell beans me when I'm not looking and KO's me. I don't have any scapes on me, so I'm now a useless corpse lying on the ground, not helping the team kill stuff, or gaining any exp or loot of any kind for my own benefit. Now, because I'm dead, someone has to take their attention away from fighting the monsters and/or supporting those who ARE fighting them to tend to me. The only type of character that REALLY should be doing this is a Force/Techer of some sort with Giresta, and they can still be helping kill off stuff, or healing that one guy who was nice enough to tank while he/she was trying to help my sorry ass out. Get what I'm saying? It weakens the team's offense and slows down their progress in the mission when someone needs to be revived.

Really, imo, the only people who have an excuse to not carry scapes are noobs who haven't established a solid income to buy them yet... and even still, they could find one as a random drop in a mission, or one of those scape doll boards we all love so much, lol... Back when I only had about 250K or so on average, I STILL tried to keep 10 scapes on me at all times, cuz you never know when something stupid will happen and cause you to randomly die, or if you happen to run into some enemies that are a tad bit stronger than you expected.

So yeah, if you party with me, I'd REALLY appreciate it if you took some scapes along. If you're still dying a lot, consider one of these options:

1 - Do an easier mission until your levels are more competent
2 - Invest in some better armor
3 - Learn how to freaking dodge stuff. =/

[ljkkjlcm9]

I think only people who care way too much about the game... carry scapes....

no offense guys... but if you're that mad or upset about missing a few exp here or there, or an item or something, the game is way too important to you. If you're that mad that you have to go revive someone who died, which takes about 5 seconds away from you killing things, you care way too much. Sure it's annoying if someone dies constantly. When I die, I don't get upset if people don't revive me right away. I'm in no rush, they don't need to be either.

It's a freaking game, and especially without the death penalty on PC/PS2... there's no real harm to dieing.

THE JACKEL

[Jakosifer]

I carry 10 always, nothing to do with missing items or exp. I just like to ALWAYS be on the move, laying around dead waiting for someone to bring me back makes me bored.

And if you have the money for them, I sure as hell don't see why you wouldn't use them. And as easy as it is to get 5k these days, you really can't say you can't "afford them". Well unless you somehow manage to die 10 times a run and are doing 30+ runs a day..then I could see why you would rather be mooned. >_>


And about other people carrying scapes in mission with me... I honestly couldn't care less about if someone else runs with Scapes or not. I carry 10 Moons and 10 Moon X's at all time, just in case. I have no problem at all with reviving anyone, long as I'm alive.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jakomay_07 on 2007-10-09 03:08 ]</font>

[Nia]

<----- wants to run w/ The Jackel

[Jakosifer]

Since PSOW won't let me edit my damn post for some reason, I wanted to add this in...

And about other people carrying scapes in mission with me... I honestly couldn't care less about if someone else runs with scapes or not. I carry 10 Moons and 10 Moon X's at all time, just in case. I have no problem at all with reviving anyone. Isn't that hard to stop what I'm doing and run over to revive a teammate.

[Jakosifer]

Zomg PSOW >_<

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jakomay_07 on 2007-10-09 10:17 ]</font>

[Nai_Calus]

I carry them if they drop, otherwise, fuck it. This includes soloing. If I die and fuck up my own rank, oh well.

Mind you, I've been having between 7 and 10 on me at all times lately, but that's just because I've been spamming the second Rozenom mission like crazy, and the fuckers drop like candy there. >_>

If someone else dies on me, oh well, shit happens. I have Moons, and Moon Xs, and I'll be there as soon as I can.

PSU really isn't Serious Business. It's a game. You know, those things you play to have a good time? Yeah.

[Dragwind]

I never bring scapes unless I randomly found one, or I'm soloing. Other than that, it's the point of teamwork to revive each other imo.

[ashley50]

On 2007-10-09 02:02, Tetsaru wrote:
Gah, I was actually blacklisted by someone at the Dulk Fakis co-op mission a few days ago because people kept dying and I told them that maybe they should start carrying scapes...

THEY REVIVE YOU INSTANTLY WITH FULL HEALTH. Why shouldn't you carry them... because they're expensive!? Bah, as many people as I see with buttloads more meseta than I do, I swear... Also, keep in mind that only Moon Atomizer X's restore ALL of your health - regular ones only keep you in the near-death zone, which still puts you at risk of dying AGAIN. And unfortunately (unless things change), you can't buy Moon Atomizer X's, can you?

Here's how I think of it: Let's say oh noes, a random Megid spell beans me when I'm not looking and KO's me. I don't have any scapes on me, so I'm now a useless corpse lying on the ground, not helping the team kill stuff, or gaining any exp or loot of any kind for my own benefit. Now, because I'm dead, someone has to take their attention away from fighting the monsters and/or supporting those who ARE fighting them to tend to me. The only type of character that REALLY should be doing this is a Force/Techer of some sort with Giresta, and they can still be helping kill off stuff, or healing that one guy who was nice enough to tank while he/she was trying to help my sorry ass out. Get what I'm saying? It weakens the team's offense and slows down their progress in the mission when someone needs to be revived.

Really, imo, the only people who have an excuse to not carry scapes are noobs who haven't established a solid income to buy them yet... and even still, they could find one as a random drop in a mission, or one of those scape doll boards we all love so much, lol... Back when I only had about 250K or so on average, I STILL tried to keep 10 scapes on me at all times, cuz you never know when something stupid will happen and cause you to randomly die, or if you happen to run into some enemies that are a tad bit stronger than you expected.

So yeah, if you party with me, I'd REALLY appreciate it if you took some scapes along. If you're still dying a lot, consider one of these options:

1 - Do an easier mission until your levels are more competent
2 - Invest in some better armor
3 - Learn how to freaking dodge stuff. =/



You aren't suited for a team-based game if you're not going to revive a fallen ally.

This game is all about teamwork.

[Yusaku_Kudou]

I didn't vote--I don't have a choice if I want to carry Scape Dolls or not, because I'm on the 360. I just made 300k today in Seabed, but I bet I spent 200k on Scape Dolls alone; would've been 500k if I didn't need to. I always carry Moon Atomizers just in case as well.

[ACH]

I have 10 Scapes with my fF but that's just because I haven't played much with him since the death penalty was changed. My GT though has no scapes and if I die I will simply have to wait till I am revived, that is what I chose when I didn't bring scapes. Sometimes I say I'm sorry when I die and most people say it's cool since we still get an S and I always thank whoever revived me. On my fF I always carry 10 Moons and I try to be quick to revive anyone, and with my GT I got Giresta and I WANT to use it. So when anyone dies I get dissapointed when I see them jump right back up again.

[Zorak000]

being that im a 360 player, I always have 2 on me, and I don't ues them as often anymore 'cause I've gotten better at the game

[Tetsaru]

On 2007-10-09 03:37, ashley50 wrote:
You aren't suited for a team-based game if you're not going to revive a fallen ally.

This game is all about teamwork.


Don't get me wrong, I DO revive people if I get the chance - I try to keep full stacks of Moons and Moon X's too. I just find it annoying because I'd rather be helping kill off the enemies. My strongest two characters that I play with the most are both suited for combat, NOT support (FG and fG/FF). Also, my force character, which JUST made FT, btw, doesn't have Giresta yet anyway - I'm still trying to get frags for other PA's atm.

Also, keep in mind that playing video games is a passion for me; if I could make a living off of doing just that, I would, lol. As a result, I'm very competitive, and so I feel that I SHOULD carry scapes with me so I don't seem like a liability to my teammates.

Finally, you're gonna have to kill off the enemies in the mission eventually... I just feel that it's best to do it in a quick and/or efficient manner, and you can't do that if you're busy reviving the poor guy who can't seem to stay alive very long. A good offense is the best defense, y'know. :3

[RegulusHikari]

Rude? What's rude is me being expected to spend thousands of meseta per run, when everyone else COULD be spending only a few hundred. Where's the fucking common sense?

What's rude is when people die, and everyone else just sits there and doesn't revive until the room is clear, if they decide to revive at all.

Why are people so willing to spend over 10 times the meseta they could be?

[Tetsaru]

On 2007-10-09 04:31, RegulusHikari wrote:
Rude? What's rude is me being expected to spend thousands of meseta per run, when everyone else COULD be spending only a few hundred. Where's the fucking common sense?

What's rude is when people die, and everyone else just sits there and doesn't revive until the room is clear, if they decide to revive at all.

Why are people so willing to spend over 10 times the meseta they could be?



Sometimes you get what you pay for. I guess it's comparable to buying stuff irl: would you rather buy a good, yet more expensive, product that will last for a good long while; or the cheap "made in Taiwan" version of the same item that'll probably break down on you a few days later?

Here's another (yet I admit, situational) way of looking at it: let's say you're in a party, and you're the only one who's carrying scapes. You're going along on your mission, and suddenly, out of nowhere, one of the enemies unleashes a devastating attack on everyone, killing them. If it weren't for you, the party leader would have to restart the mission all over again so everyone would get an S rank (provided you all started at the beginning). Sure, it probably won't happen often, but a measly 5K is nothing to me compared to lost time.

[CelestialBlade]

Let's step back and remember something:

Not everyone has 99 million meseta.

5k a pop? Meh, I use what drops in missions and I leave it at that. Hell, not carrying Scapes kinda drives me to dodge a little better.

Now, if I'm on one of my low-level alts and I'm partying with some other low-level friends, and we might all be wiped out in one boss attack, then yeah, there's definitely merit in carrying around a few. But at the same time, it makes the game far more exciting and fun for me when death actually means something. Keeps me on my toes.

[redcell]

i keep 10 scapes on me at all times, but it's mostly out of habit. i do like the new death penalty that was implemented, so i get full use out of giresta now.

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2007-10-09 04:48, Tetsaru wrote:

On 2007-10-09 04:31, RegulusHikari wrote:
Rude? What's rude is me being expected to spend thousands of meseta per run, when everyone else COULD be spending only a few hundred. Where's the fucking common sense?

What's rude is when people die, and everyone else just sits there and doesn't revive until the room is clear, if they decide to revive at all.

Why are people so willing to spend over 10 times the meseta they could be?



Sometimes you get what you pay for. I guess it's comparable to buying stuff irl: would you rather buy a good, yet more expensive, product that will last for a good long while; or the cheap "made in Taiwan" version of the same item that'll probably break down on you a few days later?

Here's another (yet I admit, situational) way of looking at it: let's say you're in a party, and you're the only one who's carrying scapes. You're going along on your mission, and suddenly, out of nowhere, one of the enemies unleashes a devastating attack on everyone, killing them. If it weren't for you, the party leader would have to restart the mission all over again so everyone would get an S rank (provided you all started at the beginning). Sure, it probably won't happen often, but a measly 5K is nothing to me compared to lost time.

this is what gets me. Isn't the whole point of playing the game to waste time? Just kick back and have fun? How is the time lost if you're playing the game either way? I honestly never understood people that argue things like this, the entire purpose of playing the game is TO waste time.
Plus if you're that far in the mission, it's not even worth restarting... sheesh!

and as for you irl example... chances are the cheaper one will actually outlast the expensive one, because a lot of companies make it so their products wear out so you have to get another one, while cheaper product makers don't care because it's cheap to begin with.... lol

THE JACKEL

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-10-09 05:35, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:

On 2007-10-09 04:48, Tetsaru wrote:

On 2007-10-09 04:31, RegulusHikari wrote:
Rude? What's rude is me being expected to spend thousands of meseta per run, when everyone else COULD be spending only a few hundred. Where's the fucking common sense?

What's rude is when people die, and everyone else just sits there and doesn't revive until the room is clear, if they decide to revive at all.

Why are people so willing to spend over 10 times the meseta they could be?



Sometimes you get what you pay for. I guess it's comparable to buying stuff irl: would you rather buy a good, yet more expensive, product that will last for a good long while; or the cheap "made in Taiwan" version of the same item that'll probably break down on you a few days later?

Here's another (yet I admit, situational) way of looking at it: let's say you're in a party, and you're the only one who's carrying scapes. You're going along on your mission, and suddenly, out of nowhere, one of the enemies unleashes a devastating attack on everyone, killing them. If it weren't for you, the party leader would have to restart the mission all over again so everyone would get an S rank (provided you all started at the beginning). Sure, it probably won't happen often, but a measly 5K is nothing to me compared to lost time.

this is what gets me. Isn't the whole point of playing the game to waste time? Just kick back and have fun? How is the time lost if you're playing the game either way? I honestly never understood people that argue things like this, the entire purpose of playing the game is TO waste time.
Plus if you're that far in the mission, it's not even worth restarting... sheesh!

and as for you irl example... chances are the cheaper one will actually outlast the expensive one, because a lot of companies make it so their products wear out so you have to get another one, while cheaper product makers don't care because it's cheap to begin with.... lol

THE JACKEL



"Ah crap mang, this Scape Doll's three weeks old! Don't they only manufacture them to last like two weeks? Damn GRM...."

*dies*

"BLARGH x_x" *Scape Doll used to rev--SYSTEM ERROR!*

*stuck in some half alive, half dead state* "DAMN YOU GRM!!!!1111"

MORAL: Check that expiration date on your Scape Dolls!

[Rizen]

On 2007-10-08 19:51, Zorafim wrote:
You know how, when you leave your parent's house, you do all the stuff your parents told you not to do?

Yeah, same thing here.
You mean cow tipping?! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Its so fun to do though!

Personally, I stopped buying Scape Dolls. People I party with are always willing to use Moons on any member. I still carry Scapes if a situation calls for it (such as S2 boss missions), but even then its not 100% necessary.

I think the rule of thumb here is know your party. If they aren't willing to revive you, bring Scapes. If not, carry Scapes only if need be.

[Miyoko]

For the most part, I never buy scapes. I never spend a single meseta on them. I carry them, but only the ones I find, or the ones I can synth for free (ie. I pick up hustle berries, scape boards, and omega acids and make when I can). I never spend any money on them, and I always keep 10 moons / X's on me. They're easy as hell to find, so why not?

EXCEPT... On my Fortetechter. I make an active effort NOT to keep scapes on her. Why? Well when you die in one shot, there's really no point in carrying scapes >_>... Besides, the way I see it, if I'm going to be busting my ass off healing people, putting myself at risk, and building up some heavy recharge costs to resta them, then it's THEIR obligation to Moon / X me if I die. I don't -have- to resta you, just like you don't -have- to moon / X me.

... That being said, I give out moons to people who need them on my force. Again, they drop left and right, so why not? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Rashiid]

i always try to keep atleast 7 on me.

[Tetsaru]

On 2007-10-09 05:35, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
this is what gets me. Isn't the whole point of playing the game to waste time? Just kick back and have fun? How is the time lost if you're playing the game either way? I honestly never understood people that argue things like this, the entire purpose of playing the game is TO waste time.
Plus if you're that far in the mission, it's not even worth restarting... sheesh!

and as for you irl example... chances are the cheaper one will actually outlast the expensive one, because a lot of companies make it so their products wear out so you have to get another one, while cheaper product makers don't care because it's cheap to begin with.... lol

THE JACKEL



To have fun, YES. To waste time... only if you don't get anything accomplished. As I said, I'm very passionate about gaming, so I tend to get upset if I'm not making any sort of progress. =/

On your comment about my example: huh??

But yeah, we're getting off-topic here... Lemme ask you guys this then: would it make a difference if scape dolls weren't as expensive as people claim them to be? Or what if they still weren't available for purchase, like how PSO was? Btw, I only played offline on that game, so if there's a discrepancy there, I apologize for my ignorance.

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2007-10-09 05:58, Tetsaru wrote:
But yeah, we're getting off-topic here... Lemme ask you guys this then: would it make a difference if scape dolls weren't as expensive as people claim them to be? Or what if they still weren't available for purchase, like how PSO was? Btw, I only played offline on that game, so if there's a discrepancy there, I apologize for my ignorance.


if 10 moons weren't cheaper than 1 scape doll, of course it would be different.
Simply, 1 moon *can* revive 5 people. 1 moon is 350. 1 revive = 70 meseta(minimum cost)
1 scapedoll revives 1 person. 1 scape is 5000. 1 revive = 5000 meseta.

It's not that they're expensive really, it just doesn't make sense to buy one when the alternative is so much cheaper and there's absolutely no harm in using them.

THE JACKEL

[DarkShadowX]

I carry at least 5 with me, but thats more cause of habit than anything else.

And as with Rizen, the ppl I party wit, Rizen included, have moons they use to revive each other and I would do the same. I'll probably stop buying scapes altogether pretty soon cause as The Jackel said no sense in buying em is the alternative is cheaper.

[Kimil]

I don't die often enough as a Beast Wartecher to even need them =/

[ne1first]

You should carry scape dolls for the same reason you use the opposite element weapons: Because you can. And because it's better for your team.

Or is doing things faster and more efficiently not teamwork?

[Kishin]

Well, for my point of view, SEGA give us a opportunity for make money, without spent 50k meseta for 10 scape. 10 moon atomizer are cheaper than 10 scape dolls thats is the fact. What is all this "boy I lose time revive you"... is justa second, put the moon in the action palette and use them when you need to use them -.- and its easy too, specially when you're in 4+ players, mean 40 moon atomizer, lesser money spent in scape. Lets see, a fortetecher, can die more of 5 time in Dulk S2, 5 x 5k mean 25k meseta spent for every run. The mission give mm 39k meseta I think in S2 (True Darkness)? So this poor techer get 14k meseta at mission, do you think now is better 39k meseta or 14k meseta? (Of course, you need to refill items after)

[Jarek]

lol, fT
I used to always carry a scape or two when I started a mission before true darkness came out. But after a few runs of that, I gave it up as a wasted effort. It was kind of a pride thing..I didn't like having to be revived by someone else; however, once I started dying anywhere from 2-5 times a run on average in TD, I said hell with it. I heal like mad-giresta included, especially at fakis, and if people have a gripe with spending 5 of their precious seconds to revive me when I die..well you and I don't belong in the same party.
I almost joined a random group recently that was running it on s2. There were 5 various fighters/gunners so I thought I could join and try to make the run(s) go smoother. Then the comment said something about bringing scapes so I said ah, oh well. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

On my fF though, things are a little different there. He has over twice the amount of hp as my techer, and a 50% armor I lucked into making a long time ago. Add in the fact I am trimate happy, and I hardly need to use any scapes on him (EXCEPT FOR MEGID I HATE YOU). So I won't mind buying maybe 1 or 2.

[ALC]

The only scapes I carry are the ones I just happen to pick up from time to time. I don't have tons of meseta, so I stick with moons and moon x's. I don't mind using them on party members at all. I don't expect them to thank me, either, because teamwork is expected.

[BlakLanner]

360 player, so I carry 5 on me.

[Rizen]

Two points I would like to make in this decision. First being that the fact that you find Moon and Moon X items quite often during missions, from boxes and enemies alike. Roughly you can find about 10+ moons on each mission and about 2-5 Moon X's. As for Scapes, you may find 0 - 3 each mission.

Second point is the fact that many Forces use Giresta. This both lessens the need for Moons and Scape Dolls if they are willing to switch out and revive.

So the need for constantly keeping a stack of Scape Dolls is no longer needed. I understand that people like to keep momentum during missions, but being able to stop for a moment and help a member out is just as important. After all, this game is about team work.

[Alpha-Hunter]

i don't carry 10 anymore because it's not really needed. but i always keep atleast 5. if i die a few times the cost of getting me back to 5 in minimal. But i have to keep some on me. it's so annoying to when a teamate dies 4 times a boss run and expects someone to revive them every single time.

team play goes both ways. keep a few scapes on you so we can focus on killing and i'll keep some moons on me for when you run out. I died atleast 6 times running to revive someone who doesn't carry scapes. no ones ever used a moon on me, though I'd appreciate it if I died more than 5 times a mission, lol.

[Jakosifer]

Nevermind...PSOW Lag fails. My post went through apparentely..-_-


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jakomay_07 on 2007-10-09 10:17 ]</font>

[OldCoot]

I play on the 360 version and find that when I do missions to go for the S rank, I hope everyone else carries scapes unless we agree to not carry them for runs. I wonder how much meseta and MP have been lost because some players choose to not carry scapes?

Sadly some players are more interested in saving up for that next rank weapon, instead of spending a little meseta to pick up some insurance.

[RadiantLegend]

I die like its my JOB. "cant let those moons go stale and leave your giresta untouched"

[CelestialBlade]

On 2007-10-09 10:18, Ragolismine wrote:
I die like its my JOB. "cant let those moons go stale and leave your giresta untouched"



It's because of people like you that our Giresta stays levelled. Your contributions are indeed a blessing upon our kind.

[BFGfreak]

On 2007-10-09 09:08, Rizen wrote:
Two points I would like to make in this decision. First being that the fact that you find Moon and Moon X items quite often during missions, from boxes and enemies alike. Roughly you can find about 10+ moons on each mission and about 2-5 Moon X's. As for Scapes, you may find 0 - 3 each mission.

Second point is the fact that many Forces use Giresta. This both lessens the need for Moons and Scape Dolls if they are willing to switch out and revive.

So the need for constantly keeping a stack of Scape Dolls is no longer needed. I understand that people like to keep momentum during missions, but being able to stop for a moment and help a member out is just as important. After all, this game is about team work.

Tell that when you're dead when Rappies spawn, or in the middle of a Jarba fight. I have yet to see a force use Giresta when there are Mike Sierra Foxtrots (Megid spamming -Blam!-) still in the area. Meaning if you die in LL S or Hive S, you are out of the fight until all Megid casters are dead. Now granted I play on the 360 servers which still has death penalty enabled, but still, I don't revive unless I'm the last one standing, or when everything is dead, because it doesn't make much sense getting myself killed trying to revive you.

[Rizen]

Err...there shouldn't be any difference whether not theres a rare spawn or Jarbas. If your party members aren't willing to revive you just because theres a certain spawn around, then in my opinion, they aren't for team work. I can understand if you are pinned down in a bad spot, but otherwise its not a big issue. Everyone I have partied with are smart enough to revive at the right time whether they are playing Megid ball or a "omg" rare spawn.

[kyle21]

I just don't like it when I join a random group and people have no dolls, but yet they have 10mil on them...

My self I carry 10 at all times. Being dead sucks.

[DavidNel]

I always keep 10 with me. I don't maind paying, because I still have way too much haxeta.

I also think that people should carry at LEAST two of them. I get tired of dragging dead people off the floor all the time. Gets really old, really fast.

[-Ryuki-]

Everyone I've played with, have always carried scapes, and never left me hanging. The only time I was truly ever left dead was in a random party (that I was hosting) and happened to be the only FT.

Coming from my point of view, when a teammate dies, I make it my obligation to get that person back up running. Like with SE's. If a team member is on fire or frozen, I try to get close enough to use a Sol. Granted, my team may not care about me, but I care about my team.

[Gen2000]

I carry Scapes on me because just because I can and I feel it's part of teamwork to carry them but I don't care about others who don't, just don't get pissy at me because I was across the other side of the room and didn't revive you within 3 seconds because I had to dodge a shitstorm of bullets from 6-8 S2 Grinna Beats or Magas/Dulk Fakis...ANYTHING to get to you.

I can understand fTs for not carrying them because not a lot of fTs put effort into wearing good armor and learn boss patterns enough to dodge properly but they are usually the only healer in the team so if you or the team want to save money and be on their good side so they keep up the heals it's probably best you revive them ASAP...

[Kylie]

You know, it's much cheaper to buy moons than it is to buy scapes, and it's not like I'm demanding people to revive me. No, I expect to do the same for anyone else, and so I just figure it's cheaper for everyone. I'm not one to push my beliefs on other people, so I don't complain if I see other people carry scapes... I'm sorry that my stance on the issue conflicts with anyone, but I would be happy to reimburse people for moons they used on me if they asked, but no one's asked so far... At any rate, I'd think anyone complaining about 350 meseta is silly.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kylie on 2007-10-09 13:00 ]</font>

[Egg99]

On 2007-10-08 19:08, Googlebonker wrote:
Where do you stand on this issue?

I enter missions with 10 Scape Dolls. I find it rude to go into a party and expect partymates to revive my character every time he or she gets incapacitated. To me, it's QUITE annoying to see someone not bring Scape Dolls and expect their partymates to use their items to revive them over and over, especially if the incapacitated one starts complaining about how long the it's taking to complete missions or keeps getting repeatedly incapacitated.


In all honesty, your attitude somewhat bugs me. I totally understand both sides of the argument, but the way you phrase your opinion just makes you sound arrogant.

This game is a team-based game. We have parties of six for a reason. We have cooperative missions for a reason. We have no death penalty for a reason. We have revival items for a reason. Need I go on? To "expect" your teammates to revive you if you die is in no way unreasonable, since this is in fact, a team-based game. If Moon Atomizers were completely uncommon, pricey as hell, and/or an unnecessary item, then yes, wanting your teammates to help you would be asking alot. But as it stands, that's not the case. Nor will it ever be.

I'm sorry that I don't have millions of leftover haxeta from 5 months ago to continue buying a stack of scapedolls every several runs. Coincidently, neither do alot of other players. The majority of us "annoying" players really don't have a problem using up a bunch of Moons during a mission, since using teamwork and helping each other out is what this game is all about. If we're ruining your day that much, consider all the factors that I've mentioned, and try not to act so selfish.

However, in your defense, the ones who complain about mission length and how I'm "not reviving them fast enough" are a complete pain in the ass. Especially, as you said, when they're dropping left right and center. No one likes those kinds of people, and they give the rest of us a bad name. Regardless, they don't constitute the majority of the playerbase, so I really don't find it to be as big of a problem as you make it sound.

[Konstanse_Xx]

I remember one time I was in a random party, on TD A helping my best friend level when this nub came in(level 37 I believe)

Died like 4 times during fakis, I was like "What the hell? o.o"

I looked at his armour, he had that C Rank light armour...you know, I think Hel-Senba?

He didn't even make it into the second block of the next run, not only did he begin to leech, ALL his weaponry was 2*

I loved booting him. n_n

[Eleina]

I carry scapes because i feel that if i die it's not someone elses duty to come and revive me...My thought works both ways so i don't revive ppl who die in my partys...

[Xaeris]

I don't mind when other people don't carry Scapes. Usually. I mean, hey, we all run into scrapes of bad luck like getting sandwiched in the corner by a Carriguine and getting paid in the face by a Megid. So, sparing a bit of time and a Moon to get someone back on their feet to save them 5k is no problem. Now, my issues begin when people die so often, that I have to restock on Moons every, single, mission. Honestly, when you die 8 times in one run, you should seriously consider offering to reimburse your reviver for the moons he's dumping; that **** adds up.

I, personally, always have at least 5 scapes on my person. I just don't like leaving anything important to other people, reviving included. All in all, I like to have scapes, but don't mind if others feel differently, so long as they don't make a habit of dying consistently. Ironically, the people I wouldn't mind reviving tend to have scapes.

[Omega-chan]

I don't carry Scapes any more, mostly because I've been doing Her Secret Mission a lot and it's taught me how to get through mobs WITHOUT having to die. Plus, as people have mentioned, it costs too damn much to keep stocking up.

I will, however, revive people if I happen to be in the vicinity and they've bit the dust. I have Moons on my action palette, within three presses of the arrow keypad, for a reason. Usually, though, being the FO, I try not to let them die at all... ^_~

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Omega-chan on 2007-10-09 14:00 ]</font>

[Golto]

I've bought a grand total of 3 scapes since before Firebreak. I usually try to keep 5 in my inventory. I agree with Xaeris, if you are dying 5+ times a run you better learn how to play better or give out moons to the people who revive you.

[Googlebonker]

I didn't mean to sound arrogant, and I'm honestly glad that post has received this much response! Keep those PoV coming!

For me, it's more of a... How do I explain it? I'll use an example!

This example isn't something that would necessarily EVER happen, but I think it helps give a point.

Let's say we're both in a party of 6. I'm carrying 10 Scape Dolls, and you're not carrying any. After each run, I go to an NPC and refill on Scape Dolls and Moon Atomizers. You don't buy Scape Dolls, but you would refill on Moon Atomizers if you ever used any. During the next 5 runs, my char gets incapacitated 10 times each run. That's 250,000 Meseta to refill on Scape Dolls 5 times. You also get incapacitated 10 times per run. Your teammates end up spending 17,500 meseta on Moon Atomizers for you. You find that everyone else in the party NEVER gets incapacitated (Wow, don't we suck?!). It's time for you to go to work! You haven't spent 1 meseta on reviving items, although you have them on your action palette and would immediately run to the aid of anyone who needed one. Nice intentions, but I'm out at least 250,000 meseta saving my party members from spending their money to revive me. The party members you had are out 17,500 meseta from footing your reviving bill.

This might be kind of innacurate as a comparison situation, but consider:

We go to eat at a restaurant. We're all humans on this planet, and we all need sustainence to live! Isn't that something humans do? After the meal, you tell me, "Bye!" and leave me with the tab! I pay for your meal, but I'm mad because of what you did. I call you, and you explain that I should be glad that you took the time out of your day to be in my company.

I liked the idea about giving compensation for reviving. It seems very considerate. I think I'll offer that if I ever need a Moon Atomizer used on me in the form of a replacement Moon Atomizer or 500 meseta. One Giresta cast (even by a Force or Wartecher...

[Googlebonker]

with LV21 or higher Giresta) is more than covered by 80 meseta for a full recharge of the Giresta-used PP.

[Reipard]

Lalala~ Time to reiterate the mantra again~~


Teamwork is, by definition, an implicit agreement to carry the burden of other party members and selflessly support and watch out for them. In exchange, they are to carry your burden and selflessly support and watch out for you in turn. The reason for this strange agreement is so that the team can more easily work towards its common goal.

It is easier to do things in a group. If people are supporting you, it is not burdening them. If you support them in turn, you are being a team player.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2007-10-09 14:26 ]</font>

[Bitey]

I have to say this, flame me if you want, but I wholeheartedly believe in this.

Scape Dolls and Scape Doll synth materials are fairly common drops. That said, if you are dying so much on average that normal Scape Doll drops or Scape Doll synth drops cannot replenish your supply of lost Scape Dolls, then you need to work on your dodging skills or find an easier mission, unless you are like level 10 (a level 10 could not possibly be expected to have anough meseta for Scapes).

Meseta and the cost of Scape Dolls is not an issue in the mid to late game if you are playing the game correctly. Hell, if you are even having a bad death day there are some missions like Eastern Peril that are known for their Scape Doll friendly drops. If you are running dangerously low, take the time to solo one of those missions while leveling some skills or something to replenish your supply. It might suck that you cannot run the missions you want to run without running to an NPC, but you have to keep in mind that is is your own fault that you need Scape Dolls and it is your responsibility to get them no matter how you choose to do so... You cannot complain...

Now, it is also an issue of respect for you to carry a Scape Doll, death penalty or not, when you team with strangers. It is your own fault that you have died in a mission, why should somebody else who does not know you have to pay for your shortcomings whether they are using their own supplies on you or taking the time out of fighting (possibly missing exp and items) just to run to your side? If you are with a group of friends, whatever, you guys are friends and that is a more personal subject, but with complete strangers you must have the common courtesy to be respectful and not force them to compensate for your failure.

To me, the addition of being able to revive a teammate with no Scapes and keep your rank is just an added plus to where you can revive then kick the rude party member keeping your rank as opposed to the past where if somebody died without a Scape you kicked them but you were also powerless to recover the lost rank.

You are just being childish if you honestly feel that strangers should spend their meseta/time on you for whatever benefit on your behalf. Grow up and take some responsibility for your own actions...

EDIT FOR AN EMPHASIS OF DEFINITION: A "team" and a "party" are two different things. When you play with friends, you are in a "team". You are with a group of individuals who know your strengths and weaknesses and you know their's as well. With this information teamwork is possible. When you play with complete strangers, you are in a "party". You are with a group of individuals that do not know each other and you are merely cooperating under a common goal. with this arrangement it is possible to meet goals that are not normally possible solo.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bitey on 2007-10-09 14:39 ]</font>

[Reipard]

And like always, my words go completely unread and unnoticed. Scape Dolls and the Death Penalty really did create a rather uncooperative attitude among the PSU playerbase.

Be responsible for your own failures, indeed. Look down on people who die. Because after all, just because they die, they are being inconsiderate, rude, and especially burdening the party.

You might as well not carry Moons either. Nobody should burden eachother with unnecessary costs. Every Man For Himself.

PSU will be a better place, I'm sure.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2007-10-09 14:34 ]</font>

[Ryo_Hayasa]

I don't see how so many people could be upset over the fact that people don't bring scape dolls with them. -ahem-

Sorry to bring back something that's too old for it's own good in comparison to PSU but....

In PSO no one complained about Scape dolls. we'd carry maybe one or two. (Given, Scape dolls were rare, but you could carry as many as you could fit in your inventory, and over time in mid/late game play you could have a hundred of the things)

If you died in PSO, your party would have no problem using a moon/Reverser on you. Because as team you work toward a goal. Truly, if someone is that much of a burden on your party (assuming your leader) that ressurecting them because they got one-shot by Megid, over and over again while wearing 40% dark armor, then by all means.

Boot them.

Personally, i have no problem mooning someone whenever they die. It's just another way of doing my part. (And seriously, i have 10 moons on me as well as 10 Moon X's, and ten more in my PM, i just can't get rid of them fast enough)

Another point, If someone in your party continues to die, with or without scapes. shouldn't it be the parties job collectively be protect that person and get that person out of the situations that are leading to them being slaughtered?

That's what i call team work.

</wall of text>

[Yuicihi]

Considering I'm pitifully poor, and the odds of getting into a random party without getting kicked on the spot are exceptionally low nowadays on the 360...

No, I don't carry Scape Dolls. In fact, I only care a few Atomizers just in case some person randomly decides to join my party.

But honestly, I've found that this community relies on eachother far too much. Yes, things happen. You'll need rezzing every once in a while. However, it's not a reason to get mad at each other. Some just can't afford Scapes. It's almost past teamwork into straight out dependance.

[drizzle]

Hold palette button, tap L1 or L2 a few times to scroll to Moon X, release, tadaaa! Rezzed team member. That's not so hard is it, heh.

[Googlebonker]

On 2007-10-09 14:24, Reipard wrote:
Lalala~ Time to reiterate the mantra again~~


Teamwork is, by definition, an implicit agreement to carry the burden of other party members and selflessly support and watch out for them. In exchange, they are to carry your burden and selflessly support and watch out for you in turn. The reason for this strange agreement is so that the team can more easily work towards its common goal.

It is easier to do things in a group. If people are supporting you, it is not burdening them. If you support them in turn, you are being a team player.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2007-10-09 14:26 ]</font>


Yes, that sounds great, and would be all hunki-dori, but things don't work like that even irl. That's one reason I gave the second example. I'm not saying you that should never help anyone, but, referring to the example, that doesn't mean I should have to pay for your meal when you can pay for your own.

PSO was a little different in that you could return to Pioneer 2 without causing a penalty to your teammates (except time and maybe a Telepipe use or Ryuker cast).

Also, there's not much you can do to protect a teammate sometimes, especially if he or she is a Fortetecher trying to level Gifoie.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Googlebonker on 2007-10-09 14:58 ]</font>

[mizukage]

On 2007-10-09 14:39, Ryo_Hayasa wrote:

If you died in PSO, your party would have no problem using a moon/Reverser on you. Because as team you Another point, If someone in your party continues to die, with or without scapes. shouldn't it be the parties job collectively be protect that person and get that person out of the situations that are leading to them being slaughtered?

That's what i call team work.



Totally agreed. I don't understand why so many people are getting upset over reviving party members. I mean, if you go into a battle with teammates and they get hurt, the idea of teamwork is to heal them with resta or revive them using reverser. When the TP drops low, all one got to do is use a cheap photon charger. More over, its not that difficult to earn meseta, as long as people would do missions after missions.

Personally, I have no problems using resta, reverser, or photon charges for healing and reviving teammates. Personally, I would do missions while holding 5 or so scapedolls though. It would suck when the other teammates take out the bosses, while the unrevived are eatting dirt.

[DavidNel]

Come on now, scapes are really needed, expecially for some people. If you die more than two times, and don't have any scapes, I'm probably not going to revive you. This is mainly for under S rank missions, where megid isn't spammed.

But really, would it kill anyone to carry two scapes? No. The only exeption to this rule is for the new mission and forces. In that mission, you CAN'T dodge the giant fireball, so it will probabily kill the forces. Why? Because they simply don't have the HP to survive it.

PS: I'm a Figunner, not a force.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-10-09 14:54, DavidNel wrote:
In that mission, you CAN'T dodge the giant fireball, so it will probabily kill the forces. Why? Because they simply don't have the HP to survive it.You're showing your ignorance on that.

Dulk's HUEG liek bahn meteor attack does roughly 9/10 of your total HP. Hypothetically, a level 1 female Newman fT could survive it on S2 (if that were possible) provided she had full HP when it hit.

[beatrixkiddo]

Giant fireball = ???

If you're talking about Fakis's meteor, it does a relative amount of damage (around 85% of your max HP), so ANYONE can survive it, as loong as they are at nearly full health.

[ljkkjlcm9]

what's absurd is everyone saying that you're making other people pay to revive you....
uhm it goes both ways, when they die, you go revive them. Why should I reimburse them when I revive them when they die as well? Just because I died a few more times?

I honestly don't get it. Would you rather pay 350 meseta and revive other people, while they spend 350 meseta to revive you. Or spend 5k to revive yourself?

Anyone who refuses to revive other people when they die, I wouldn't care if you booted me when I died. If you're that inconsiderate, I don't want to play with you.
"OMG you died, you're such a newb, learn to dodge. And you don't have scapes? Pfft I'd rather you dead the entirety of the mission, probably slowing the team down because we've lost a player, just to teach you a lesson." You know what lesson I'd learn from that? You're self centered and think you're better than everyone else. Revive the person, they'd do the same for you.

THE JACKEL

[Ashkahn]

I enter missions carrying a few Scapes, but ONLY because I play 360. When the Death Penalty gets fixed, I'll still carry them, but less then I usually do.

[Turambar]

The only missions that I will actually buy scapes for are high death rate missions like Fakis S2. Since it's tailswipe has a good chance of one-hitting me, and he uses that attack quite often, I'll come with a few scapes. That is just me though. For other missions where deaths are not as common, there is no point to scapes.

While idiotic parties where people refuse to rev. you do exist, I'm going to go out on a very optimistic ledge and say those are the exceptions, not the rule. Most that I've ran into have moons and use them. The idea of "burdening the party" is quite absurd as well.

As for the Fakis meteor, the smaller space rocks that fire off before has a chance to stun someone, and the damage they deal before hand is usually enough to send someone's health bar into instant-death range by the big meteor.

[Zarbolord]

I don't carry scape dolls anymore, waste of money...

[Ithildin]

On 360 I carry about three scapes because of the penalty. On PC however, if I'm with my usual team mates I sometimes don't bother because I'm sure they don't mind reviving me... well I hope not...

[Zarbolord]

Actually it depends on which character, cos as a force its better to have a few scapes.

[Vegechan]

I carry about 3 if it's a 3-man party. As for a full party i dont carry any scapes. Someone will always get your back if it's a full party.

[Reipard]

Yes, that sounds great, and would be all hunki-dori, but things don't work like that even irl. That's one reason I gave the second example. I'm not saying you that should never help anyone, but, referring to the example, that doesn't mean I should have to pay for your meal when you can pay for your own.

You quote it, you seem to respond to it. And yet, you have completely missed my point. How can that be?

[Wallin]

On 2007-10-09 14:39, Ryo_Hayasa wrote:
"...shouldn't it be the parties job collectively be protect that person and get that person out of the situations that are leading to them being slaughtered?"

Unless your definition of teamwork is babysitting, then no, I don't agree with this. This is pretty one-sided; why should 5 people cover one person who is constantly dead? What does this dirt-eating teamster actually provide to the rest of the group besides spare baggage? It's one thing to give extra fire power, it's another when everyone else has to stop attacking to constantly heal or revive.

If you have a party member who is being 'slaughtered', unless it's a friend in which case it shouldn't even matter, you're not doing them kindness by holding their hand in a mission that's obviously too hard for them. There's guns and there's techs, if they can't stay out of trouble with these outside of the boss battles, then there's a problem.

[Nai_Calus]

This thread is full of fail and lulz. Apparently none of the following things has ever happened to anybody in this thread!

Some other monster hangs you up, either by freezing/stunning/whatevering you or by simply being physically in the way, and you were unable to dodge a Megid ball in time.
Something one-shotted you.
Megid came from behind you from something that had spawned while you were dealing with something else.
Someone else in the party triggered a Bil de Vear/Karajibari/whatever while you were near enough it to get knocked into it, and you died from the spin attack.
You hit a lag spike and during the lag spike, when there was absolutely nothing you could do to heal yourself or even really properly try to dodge, you took enough damage to die from it once the spike wore off and it all hit at once.
Etc.

Yeeeah. Shit you can't avoid is a personal 'failure'. Somehow, I don't think so. Dear god I'm glad I'm on the JP version now where I don't have to play with half the idiots in this thread. >_>

Big whup. Someone dies, I revive 'em. I don't care if they say thank you or apologize for the death or give me money/moons or not. I'm in the team, that's my job. I do apologize and thank if I die and am revived, and if they want it I'll gladly give them replacement moons/meseta. Teamwork, like what Reipard posted. I've got your back, you've got mine, maybe we'll end up splattered on the floor a few times if things go badly, but oh well.

You know, people never bitched about this shit on PSO. You died, oh well, worst you got was a http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif symbol chat. The only bitching would come from the person dying, actually, rofl. I used to get dragged along to TTF runs back when my FOmar didn't have the HP to survive half the stuff Falz did, and I'd have to tell people to stop reviving me at the second form so my Mag wouldn't hate me so much. XD Scapes also couldn't be bought, so there was no real expectation that you'd carry them. Hell, you'd have the whole party dead in Seabed or Tower or something and you'd all just LOL and someone would volunteer to go back to P2 and be the one to come back down and revive everyone else. Now, that doesn't quite work anymore in PSU, and more's the pity, but for all other death situations... Yeah, jesus christ, what the hell happened between games? When did everyone get so Serious Business and unfriendly? When did we transition from 'lulz' to 'zomg u sukk'?

There are days when I really, truly miss PSO and its attitudes.

[mizukage]

On 2007-10-09 14:59, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
what's absurd is everyone saying that you're making other people pay to revive you....
uhm it goes both ways, when they die, you go revive them. Why should I reimburse them when I revive them when they die as well? Just because I died a few more times?



I have never tried the online yet, but as far as I know..it isn't that difficult to earn meseta and spending it as teamwork expenses. Why are there so many people making a fuss about reviving teammates?? Besides, considering that the meseta isn't real money, I think the people who plan on leaving their teammates to eat dirt while they get their items and boss exp should just try solo mode instead. Jeez!

[Wallin]

On 2007-10-09 19:59, mizukage wrote:
I have never tried the online yet, but as far as I know..it isn't that difficult to earn meseta and spending it as teamwork expenses. Why are there so many people making a fuss about reviving teammates?? Besides, considering that the meseta isn't real money, I think the people who plan on leaving their teammates to eat dirt while they get their items and boss exp should just try solo mode instead. Jeez!



Actually, you hit the nail right on the head, so I'm not sure why you're not getting this. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

What is the common goal of a majority of players on teams in PSU? "Work together to stay alive and kill as much as possible!" No, wait, that's not it at all.

You're right, why not try soloing instead? It's simple - you gain exp, mp, and money much faster doing group mission than you would solo. But PSU is not like most MMORPGs - you don't need any organization whatsoever in this game. You can run off and attack things, heal yourself instantly, go back to town whenever you want to, and the group will still carry on.

Think of a group as 6 individual players trying to get from point A to point B, and they all happen to be traveling together and decided, "what the heck, they're going the same direction, we'll just all walk together, there's no harm in it" (notice I didn't mention anything about the benefits, just that there weren't any disadvantages to it). If one member dies and gets left behind, what of it? No harm done. You can argue that the walk will take longer with one less member, but it would have taken longer if they were alone anyway, and when all the players in the group share this frame of mind, then no one really cares enough to revive.

[Garnet_Moon]

No scapes.

This is why we have Field Medics. Scapes make it too easy.

[Tetsaru]

On 2007-10-09 19:32, Ian-KunX wrote:
This thread is full of fail and lulz. Apparently none of the following things has ever happened to anybody in this thread!

Some other monster hangs you up, either by freezing/stunning/whatevering you or by simply being physically in the way, and you were unable to dodge a Megid ball in time.
Something one-shotted you.
Megid came from behind you from something that had spawned while you were dealing with something else.
Someone else in the party triggered a Bil de Vear/Karajibari/whatever while you were near enough it to get knocked into it, and you died from the spin attack.
You hit a lag spike and during the lag spike, when there was absolutely nothing you could do to heal yourself or even really properly try to dodge, you took enough damage to die from it once the spike wore off and it all hit at once.
Etc.

Yeeeah. Shit you can't avoid is a personal 'failure'. Somehow, I don't think so. Dear god I'm glad I'm on the JP version now where I don't have to play with half the idiots in this thread. >_>

Big whup. Someone dies, I revive 'em. I don't care if they say thank you or apologize for the death or give me money/moons or not. I'm in the team, that's my job. I do apologize and thank if I die and am revived, and if they want it I'll gladly give them replacement moons/meseta. Teamwork, like what Reipard posted. I've got your back, you've got mine, maybe we'll end up splattered on the floor a few times if things go badly, but oh well.

You know, people never bitched about this shit on PSO. You died, oh well, worst you got was a http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif symbol chat. The only bitching would come from the person dying, actually, rofl. I used to get dragged along to TTF runs back when my FOmar didn't have the HP to survive half the stuff Falz did, and I'd have to tell people to stop reviving me at the second form so my Mag wouldn't hate me so much. XD Scapes also couldn't be bought, so there was no real expectation that you'd carry them. Hell, you'd have the whole party dead in Seabed or Tower or something and you'd all just LOL and someone would volunteer to go back to P2 and be the one to come back down and revive everyone else. Now, that doesn't quite work anymore in PSU, and more's the pity, but for all other death situations... Yeah, jesus christ, what the hell happened between games? When did everyone get so Serious Business and unfriendly? When did we transition from 'lulz' to 'zomg u sukk'?

There are days when I really, truly miss PSO and its attitudes.



Thank you! Apparently someone is aware of the random wtf situations that happen every once in a while that you can't always avoid.

But, any other time... if you simply learn your characters' limits, attack/support accordingly, and don't die in the first place, it's not a problem, is it? I'd say a good team is one that stays alive to fight... and a corpse can't fight... unless you're a zombie, I guess... =/

[Mayu]

Meh

[Midicronica]

On 2007-10-09 21:16, Mayu wrote:
Meh



lol post count +1!

Uh...yeah.. I carry at least 3 scapes on me because I have to. X360 'n stuff.

[PJ]

On 2007-10-09 21:16, Mayu wrote:
Meh



Why do mods get away with posts like these?

I bought 10 scapes, kind of as a joke. My friends got annoyed with me trying to attack Fakis in True Darkness S cause he'd keep one-shotting me. It's not my closeness that's causing my death, cause the attack that usually kills me he can hit me from a distance anyways. But I started using a wand + card combo for mobile resta. Until PP runs out, then I go back to my Rod and heal the rest of the match.

That run I bought the scapes, I used 3. I think I died the least. I was happy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[unicorn]

I personally don't carry scapes. My main has less than 1 mil on him, and I really can't afford 50k every once in a while. Plus, I don't die as often, so why bother? In parties I generally play the support role, and I expect people to revive me, since I'm indirectly saving them trimate and scape doll money.

As for the PSO vs PSU on deaths... I think the main problem is that PSU started out with the dreaded death penalty, and you really got to see a player's true colours then. Even with the death penalty fixed, I can't help but to feel guilty when I die. PSU really likes making you feel like you suck.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: super_luu on 2007-10-09 21:31 ]</font>

[Rizen]

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc299/RizenAoI/Other/300.jpg
They didn't use Scape Dolls! Why should we!

[xgp]

i all was have 10 scaps it cost a lot but i do not lack to heder pll by macking them look avter me.

[Garanz-Baranz]

As i am on the PC/PS2 servers, I no longer carry purchased scape dolls.

The reasons for doing so are-

1- slight waste of money, sure it's faster, but is 350 meseta less then 5000? in an S-mission like True Darkness, dying losses EXP fairly quick, nearing 460+ EXP lost, or 1000+ lost if big enemies are killed before revival, I'm sure loss of EXP is forgivness enough thank you.

2- Without Scapes, dying is ACTUALLY POSIBLE!!! WAHOO!!, I find dying in mid mission comical and funny, like in PSO. Heck, I remember dying like 20 times on PSO in the hardest mission I've ever played, on one specific private server posibly known by many on here or not.

3- drawing the "Faint" pose. o.o;;;

[Sexy_Raine]

I carry at least 6 scapes on me at all times. I don't like being revived at all, it's my personal preference. I don't die that much anyway, so I don't really care about scape price.

As far as others go, I really don't care. I have giresta and always carry moons, so I can revive that person. I won't bash a person for not having them, but I will bash them if they die constantly on the same mission.

[Tsundere]

If you think there is even a remote chance of dying, then you should bring along a few scapes. It's an inconvience to others to have to revive you in battle, simply because you chose not to buy any scape dolls. It's a courtesy issue.

Plus, it makes you look cheap and/or lazy and makes it so people don't want to party with you.

[DAMASCUS]

I carry one Scape Doll on me just in case I do get cheesed and then if I lose it before the boss battle I will either restock and get another or borrow one from someone which is easier than you would think http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[DonRoyale]

i bring three scapes always, despite being a fortetecher. i run true darkness s, and only die to the possible darbelan room via those two ghey gaozorans. falkis can only kill me with those stupid schplosion missles. :<

i can always dodge the shoop da whoop, body slams, and warps (or at least stay alive through them)

i'd rather not take my chances when it comes to falkis. with 15 foie, i usually hit him for 5-700 damage, so i like to think i'm useful (unless we hab hunters that spam majarra or gravity on him endlessly, but they always get pwned by his "IM'A CHARGIN MAH LASER!")

i say if you know the mission well, scapes aren't totally nescessary. :>

[Ryo_Hayasa]

You know, people never bitched about this shit on PSO. You died, oh well, worst you got was a symbol chat. The only bitching would come from the person dying, actually, rofl. I used to get dragged along to TTF runs back when my FOmar didn't have the HP to survive half the stuff Falz did, and I'd have to tell people to stop reviving me at the second form so my Mag wouldn't hate me so much. XD Scapes also couldn't be bought, so there was no real expectation that you'd carry them. Hell, you'd have the whole party dead in Seabed or Tower or something and you'd all just LOL and someone would volunteer to go back to P2 and be the one to come back down and revive everyone else. Now, that doesn't quite work anymore in PSU, and more's the pity, but for all other death situations... Yeah, jesus christ, what the hell happened between games? When did everyone get so Serious Business and unfriendly? When did we transition from 'lulz' to 'zomg u sukk'?

There are days when I really, truly miss PSO and its attitudes.

Well, minus the anger in this post, i agree. even though the original poster agreed with me.

Personally i think it's the mixing of the consoles. the DCers and GCers are different fom PS2ers. It's prolly because in other MMRPGs dying truly IS annoying, and is negative. PSO, well in PSO no one really cared if you died. infact, dying was always funny.

Anyone remember being in ruins and getting blind sided by a....what were those things called? Belta? a Belta claw from across the room that ended up being critcal.

Good times.

[Reipard]

If you think there is even a remote chance of dying, then you should bring along a few scapes. It's an inconvience to others to have to revive you in battle, simply because you chose not to buy any scape dolls. It's a courtesy issue.

Plus, it makes you look cheap and/or lazy and makes it so people don't want to party with you.

-_-
Where has the spirit of cooperation gone? With the wind, with the wind. C'est la vie.

Such is what Sega's poor play mechanics have done to this community. Being in a party should be fun. It should not be a frustrating experience wherein people single out one another and get offended over supporting the others.

Courtesy issue, indeed.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2007-10-10 14:19 ]</font>

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Belra.

Confused Indi Belras were the shit.

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-10-09 21:30, super_luu wrote:
I personally don't carry scapes. My main has less than 1 mil on him, and I really can't afford 50k every once in a while. Plus, I don't die as often, so why bother? In parties I generally play the support role, and I expect people to revive me, since I'm indirectly saving them trimate and scape doll money.

As for the PSO vs PSU on deaths... I think the main problem is that PSU started out with the dreaded death penalty, and you really got to see a player's true colours then. Even with the death penalty fixed, I can't help but to feel guilty when I die. PSU really likes making you feel like you suck.


This is almost my situation exactly.

In my free time, I've been trying to level my off-main character, Raul DiUragano, so he can catch up to and play with some of my friends who are level 50's (he's level 39 as of this post).

He does not have the money to keep buying scapes each mission in True Darkness. Especially after trying to upgrade his armor and units so that he might better take punishment from those @&** Gaozorans.

I was kind of surprised when I started running public True Darkness runs with Raul because people seemed to groan when I admitted I don't carry scapes, then gave me five of them. I felt guilty and disliked it that they expected me to carry scapes for the mission, but I wound up blowing 50000 meseta on ten more a few runs later.

I hate carrying scapes, to be honest. Not just because they're expensive to buy and a massive hit to the purse of people who aren't rich, but because you don't have the option not to use them. They'd be a lot better if you could opt to revive with one (and only autorevive with bosses), because afterwards when I tried soloing on my own due to the lack of True Darkness A runs, I died a bullshit death to Gaozorans in SEED Awakened B. I would have rather not autorevived and just abandoned the mission.

This isn't a case of "lol dodge more noob http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif" either--Raul DiUragano is a Fortefighter and thus isn't always able to tapdance past stuff. Much less some of Dulk Fakis' attacks.

[DavidNel]

On 2007-10-09 14:58, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:

On 2007-10-09 14:54, DavidNel wrote:
In that mission, you CAN'T dodge the giant fireball, so it will probabily kill the forces. Why? Because they simply don't have the HP to survive it.You're showing your ignorance on that.

Dulk's HUEG liek bahn meteor attack does roughly 9/10 of your total HP. Hypothetically, a level 1 female Newman fT could survive it on S2 (if that were possible) provided she had full HP when it hit.



(sorry to drag this back up)

But, the 1 big meteor isn't really the problem. I'm talking about the paralyzing ones that come before it. Those are the real killers. You get para, then the big ball of doom comes. The small ones don't hurt high level figher classes as much as it would a force of the same level.


But that's not really the point. People should carry around a few. I just find it a personal luxury to have on hand. I don't like making other people clean up my rotting body... Then again, they are really expensive, so I can understand only having 1 or two on your person.

[OldCoot]

How is not being ready for a run, gambling on everyone's shot at MP(If they still need it) and Mesta being a team player?

Here is two examples of player types I have gamed with.

1. "Hey, I just ran out of scapes. Can I buy one or I will go out and pick up some more. I don't want to blow it for everyone else. "

2 "I don't carry scapes because I want to save up for a new, (whatever). Sorry, I blew the rank. "

Which person is the team player? Number 1, or number 2.

Isn't thinking about the rest of the team rather than your own personal gain a true team player?

[Chibi_psu]

i always carry 10 scapes but i dont mind if people carry or not.I always carry too 10 moons.Ill try to res people that dont carry or that cant buy scapes.

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-10-10 15:06, OldCoot wrote:
How is not being ready for a run, gambling on everyone's shot at MP(If they still need it) and Mesta being a team player?

Here is two examples of player types I have gamed with.

1. "Hey, I just ran out of scapes. Can I buy one or I will go out and pick up some more. I don't want to blow it for everyone else. "

2 "I don't carry scapes because I want to save up for a new, (whatever). Sorry, I blew the rank. "

Which person is the team player? Number 1, or number 2.

Isn't thinking about the rest of the team rather than your own personal gain a true team player?


That's even considering you have the money to buy scape dolls with in the first place ... I will tell you that right now my character is unable to buy even nine of them with the meseta he has.

Sometimes it's not about saving up to buy something, it's just about having money in the first place. And also, you're on 360, are you not? They still don't have the scape nerf? Because I'm a PC/PS2 player ... the scape nerf changes things considerably for most situations.

Granted, on PC/PS2 there are moments you'd want to have scape dolls handy for autorevival (boss fights, especially Dulk Fakis) but the fact they are not flexible and meseta could be saved if someone would just run over and use a moon atomizer makes them ... eh.

Since there's little control over using them, I tried to drop them at the start of another private solo mission so they wouldn't try and use themselves if I died a BS death, as I'd rather just pick them up and restart the mission over rather than waste them in such a situation.

Then my router demonstrated why that is also a bad idea by nearly dropping my connection. I was able to pick them up beforehand, but that would've made me really mad to have lost a multiple of 5000 meseta worth in items from a disconnect.

[Jarek]

On 2007-10-10 14:40, F-Gattaca wrote:

I was kind of surprised when I started running public True Darkness runs with Raul because people seemed to groan when I admitted I don't carry scapes, then gave me five of them. I felt guilty and disliked it that they expected me to carry scapes for the mission, but I wound up blowing 50000 meseta on ten more a few runs later.



lol I can't believe they'd rather give you that many scapes than just use a moon.
I'd like to level up my cast (Adidas-lv 48), so if you (or anyone who doesn't have an issue with dying scapeless) felt like doing any runs, yeah. I've been hanging around in front of true darkness.

[rogue_robot]

Because I play offline, I obviously carry scapes.

This thread only makes me think of one thing: LEE-ROOOOOY JENKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, some people should lighten up and remember that this is just a game. If they're carrying scapes, cool. If not, it's a free opportunity for one of the party techers to gain some Giresta xp - or just exercise the ability they spent all that time developing. And if nobody's a techer, using one cheap moon isn't going to end your life. They're nothing more than rounding error compared to the cost of a stack of scapes, so if you can afford those stacks of scapes, a single moon clearly shouldn't be a problem.

(Now in the event that someone eats dirt often enough to suck up a stack of moons, it might be an idea to *politely* avoid partying with said person in the future.)

[Wallin]

On 2007-10-10 14:47, DavidNel wrote:
But, the 1 big meteor isn't really the problem. I'm talking about the paralyzing ones that come before it. Those are the real killers. You get para, then the big ball of doom comes.

At least on C-A, all you need is one smart techer, and a group of people smart enough to stand near them.

The boss follows a pattern - before using the meteors Dulk flies off screen, the camera zooms out, he appears and crosses over the board in a straight line, reforms, and when he starts casting a red orb spell, he's casting meteor.

The moment he reforms, everyone should run for the techer because Dulk will definitely use the meteor spell, unless his HP isn't low enough to warrant it which rarely happens. At the point where he's casting the red orb, the techer should be spamming Reverser until the camera zooms out. The beauty of Reverser is that even if you're paralyzed in the middle of casting, the spell will still complete itself and will unparalyze the caster and everyone else in range, and the effect of Reverser lasts long enough for the techer to cast the spell again (at least with wands). So as long as they chain cast the spell they're free to heal before, during, and after the giant meteor.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wallin on 2007-10-10 16:40 ]</font>

[DavidNel]

A "smart" techer is hard to come by, lol.

[Inazuma]

it all depends on the situation really.

basically, if you think there is a good chance the entire party can be dead at the same time, you should carry scapes.
otherwise, they are a waste of meseta. also, everyone is free to decide for themselves if they carry scapes or not. if the entire party dies at the same time, you could yell at the others for not using scapes, but you are equally responsible b/c you didnt use scapes either.

i do think everyone should carry moons at all times. but even if they didnt, so many moons drop during a mission, it would be rare for them not to have moons on hand. if someone refuses to revive you and is insisting on scapes, just leave the party.

for those of you who demand everyone use scapes, i suggest you give everyone meseta at the start of each mission so they can buy em. dont complain to me about how thats a waste of money, b/c you obviously love wasting money.

to sum up everything i just said in 1 simple sentence:

more meseta > less meseta

[Wallin]

On 2007-10-10 16:50, DavidNel wrote:
A "smart" techer is hard to come by, lol.



No comment. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[AweOfShe]

Scape Dolls are for cheaters. If god wants you to die, you better damn well die.

[Tsundere]

On 2007-10-10 14:18, Reipard wrote:

If you think there is even a remote chance of dying, then you should bring along a few scapes. It's an inconvience to others to have to revive you in battle, simply because you chose not to buy any scape dolls. It's a courtesy issue.

Plus, it makes you look cheap and/or lazy and makes it so people don't want to party with you.

-_-
Where has the spirit of cooperation gone? With the wind, with the wind. C'est la vie.

Such is what Sega's poor play mechanics have done to this community. Being in a party should be fun. It should not be a frustrating experience wherein people single out one another and get offended over supporting the others.

Courtesy issue, indeed.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2007-10-10 14:19 ]</font>


Aparantly, your idea of teamwork means allowing yourself to be a burden to others. If everyone else is carrying scapes and you aren't, then you really aren't putting forth the same effort as the rest of the group. Where is the teamwork in that?

Being courteous means bringing both scapes and moons. Not carrying one or the other is simply rude.

[Sasamichan]

On 2007-10-10 17:08, AweOfShe wrote:
Scape Dolls are for cheaters. If god wants you to die, you better damn well die.



The power of God does not apply to video games.

[Shadow_Wing]

On 2007-10-11 02:13, Sasamichan wrote:

On 2007-10-10 17:08, AweOfShe wrote:
Scape Dolls are for cheaters. If god wants you to die, you better damn well die.



The power of God does not apply to video games.



Right answer.

[AweOfShe]

/facepalm

[Tigerram]

I honestly don't care what people do, if peeps die, I level my Giresta on them http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

I always carry 10 Scapes, no matter what. I solo every now and then, so that's pretty much why I do. Then again, The True Darkness mission is hell on a FT's defense, so I just carry them anyway.

But, the only small tiny rant I have is when one person doesn't carry dolls, it's okay. But when you have 3+ pt members that doesn't carry dolls, the mission doesn't go quick and smooth like it should, since the other members are going around like chickens with their heads cut off reviving people.
It's no biggie to me, but that can get a little dull however sometimes.

[Suz]

Like alot of people on here, I don't carry scape dolls anymore due to the fact that they're so expensive compared to a full stack of moons. but of course, any scapes that drop during a run that I happen to get I do hold onto. And plus, without any scapes, you get that sense that once you die, you're like, dead. It gives you the incentive to live longer, rather than just think "Oh, I was killed. Ah well. I got (how ever many scapes you have left) more lives left." Other than that, I rely on my team mates to revive me when I get incapacitated.

[Rizen]

On 2007-10-11 02:13, Sasamichan wrote:
The power of God does not apply to video games.
What about the power of the ingame gods?!

[stukasa]

Playing with a good friend: none

Playing with a casual friend/stranger: 1-5 dolls, depending on the mission

And I *always* carry lots of Moons and Moon Xs so I can revive others when needed. It doesn't bother me at all, and hopefully they would do the same for me when I die. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

(I'm on PC btw...)

[Jainsea]

Like i said on waaaay before post. Depends on what mission
you're doing. Places of megid happiness, plz carry a few scapes!(been doing lots of TD S2 lately)
Its not like we cant make our own scapes w/ the mats we already
have right?(I know this doesnt imply to all of us but a majority umm yea, mats for scape dolls are bound to be in ur storage just from regular gameplay =/ ) I carry around 5 scapes,10 moon and 9 moon X. Most of those just from regular mission drops. I have no problem reviving someone but please dont get pissy when I have to play frogger through the room of monster traffic just to get to you!! Everyone's
pallet setup is different and most have how they want it already.
So you just gonna hafta cool your jets. I'll get to you! Also as awesome and VERY helpful( i <3 u guys!!) as they are, Force types
may not be in your party ALL the time so no giresta for no one and even so if they are they may not have giresta! I can take care of myslef but help and reviving is always welcomed http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Just trying to
say if you die,(and dont have scapes) give us a few seconds. There are many times when your team just cant drop everything and go revive you..and if they leave you x.x and go on, I suggest find a new party http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif
[center]

[Egg99]

I can't believe some of the stupidty that I'm (continuing to) read in this thread. It's unreal.

There is a massive line between carrying scapes out of your own personal preference and carrying scapes because you look down on people who die. Those on the 360 have an excuse to be self-centered idiots, because they still have the death penalty. If I were on 360, I'd be the same way no doubt.

The fact that I'm reading about multiple people who truly believe not carrying scapes is "rude" is the eptiome of ridiculous. This whole thread is like a stupid political discussion, except for the fact that the entirety of one side doesn't have a valid point whatsoever. I'm not even gonna bother writing another wall of text to reinforce what (at least) ten other people have already said. If you don't get it by now, you really should stop playing this game. You'd be better off auditioning for another one of MTV's selfish-rich-kid-it's-all-about-me reality show.

Unreal...

[zandra117]

I find it rude to enter missions without moon atomizers or giresta. scapes are a waste of meseta. especially after the death penalty patch. I also find it extremely rude to boot someone that has no scapes, use moon atomizers instead of scapes people, they cost less and they encourage you to support your teammates. If you boot someone for not carrying scapes after the patch it shows that you are selfish and dont care about supporting your team. This game is built around teamwork, scapes are for soloing.

After the patch carry moon atomizers to support your party. Don't waste meseta on scapes, moons are cheaper, you can save that extra meseta for that weapon you want to buy from someones shop. If you find scapes keep them for soloing or for difficult missions where the party can get wiped quickly.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zandra117 on 2007-10-11 13:47 ]</font>

[FOnewearl-Lina]

On 2007-10-10 16:51, Inazuma wrote:
it all depends on the situation really.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/FoLina/PSU/BEST/psu20061206_150812_018.jpg


basically, if you think there is a good chance the entire party can be dead at the same time, you should carry scapes.
otherwise, they are a waste of meseta. also, everyone is free to decide for themselves if they carry scapes or not. if the entire party dies at the same time, you could yell at the others for not using scapes, but you are equally responsible b/c you didnt use scapes either.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/FoLina/PSU/BEST/psu20061206_150138_014.jpg


i do think everyone should carry moons at all times. but even if they didnt, so many moons drop during a mission, it would be rare for them not to have moons on hand. if someone refuses to revive you and is insisting on scapes, just leave the party.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/FoLina/PSU/BEST/psu20061206_145054_000.jpg


for those of you who demand everyone use scapes, i suggest you give everyone meseta at the start of each mission so they can buy em. dont complain to me about how thats a waste of money, b/c you obviously love wasting money.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/FoLina/PSU/BEST/psu20061206_150052_012.jpg



to sum up everything i just said in 1 simple sentence:

more meseta > less meseta

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y274/FoLina/PSU/BEST/psu20061206_150223_015.jpg

I hear ya man, I hear ya...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/RyuuHasha/PSO/PSU309.jpg

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FOnewearl-Lina on 2007-10-11 17:37 ]</font>

[VanHalen]

On 2007-10-10 17:08, AweOfShe wrote:
Scape Dolls are for cheaters. If god wants you to die, you better damn well die.



Not when you have technology! Muhahahahaha!

[Xaeris]

I really am grateful for posts like Lina's. Sometimes I feel that I've changed from the happy go lucky adventurer I started online gaming as into a performance obsessed metagamer, the thing I hated most from day one. Then a post like that comes along to fill me with that familiar indignation and remind me, "hey, relax, you're not that far gone yet."

So, I thank you. Truly.

[Garanz-Baranz]

This Topic is now crazy, but I'll still post.

I don't carry scapes, for two reasons.

1- Meseta conservation- I'm on PS2/PC servers, and guess what, I do have 10 Mil or so, but guess how much I had befor dropping to 10mil? 100 million meseta, wanna know what costed 90mil? A Degahna Cannon my bro bought. >.< I have a reason because my bro used up 90% of my meseta. I'm saving up so that all this Inflated sheep is buyable by me.

2- The halarity of death- Sure, all you "I MUST PROGRESS" people would hate me dying, but I don't care, PSO had a funny dying phenomenon, but aparantly PSU doesn't, I'm trying to rebirth that o.o

I carry Scapes that I find, I don't sell them.

If I absolutly NEED to buy scapes, like on a Jarba or Deljaban mission that I fear, I will.

<.< I do find it overzealously rude to not Rev people as fast as posible, and to say "BUY SOME SCAPES NUB!", It's not your job to tell that person what the heck he should have when he doesn't ask first.

If you want to carry Scapes, be my guest, but don't EVER tell me to buy scapes because I died by Megid and not revive me. T.T I've had that happen to me trice.

[Gunslinger-08]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Such laziness. How can it be teamwork if it's too much to go and revive someone? It's one thing to go into a mission without scape dolls simply because you don't think of it, but it's another to go into a mission expecting someone to revive you every time you die. I can understand frustration with the latter type, but seriously. Get off your high horse and heal the damn player. You were willing to work with them when you joined the party and started the mission.

[Inazuma]

lina, there was an update to the game that changed how deaths work. in the past, using scapes saved money. now, not using em saves money. things have changed. i havent changed. its not very nice of you to post those mails of mine and not tell ppl that it was back in the day before the death penalty change.

[Wallin]

On 2007-10-11 17:38, Garanz-Baranz wrote:
2- The halarity of death- Sure, all you "I MUST PROGRESS" people would hate me dying, but I don't care, PSO had a funny dying phenomenon, but aparantly PSU doesn't, I'm trying to rebirth that o.o


Good luck with that on the 360. There's a difference between operating freely when there were absolutely no penalties to anyone including yourself, and screwing over an entire group of 6 people on a single death no matter what the circumstance.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

On 2007-10-11 17:46, Inazuma wrote:
lina, there was an update to the game that changed how deaths work. in the past, using scapes saved money. now, not using em saves money. things have changed. i havent changed. its not very nice of you to post those mails of mine and not tell ppl that it was back in the day before the death penalty change.

They can see the post date in the actual screenshots, it doesn't change the fact that while everyone else was playing for fun, you were an asshat that refused to use moons and left parties because other people refused to use scapes. And on S rank LL no less, liek ohnoes you missed out on 1 PA frag and liek 500 meseta? cry much?

[Reipard]

Good! This thread needed some draaaaaaaaaaaaama ^_^.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

Yeah, cause getting A rank is SERIOUS BUSINESS http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

[Inazuma]

lina, why bring up the past when it doesnt event apply to today's game? you know how i feel about scape dolls now.

yes, i liked meseta back then! and i didnt like taking meseta away from others! if this bothers you so much, even to this day, why dont you give me meseta so you can feel better about yourself.


On 2007-10-11 17:49, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2007-10-11 17:46, Inazuma wrote:
lina, there was an update to the game that changed how deaths work. in the past, using scapes saved money. now, not using em saves money. things have changed. i havent changed. its not very nice of you to post those mails of mine and not tell ppl that it was back in the day before the death penalty change.

They can see the post date in the actual screenshots, it doesn't change the fact that while everyone else was playing for fun, you were an asshat that refused to use moons and left parties because other people refused to use scapes. And on S rank LL no less, liek ohnoes you missed out on 1 PA frag and liek 500 meseta? cry much?

[Reipard]

Right on!

[PJ]

ITT inazuma completely misses lina's point

[FOnewearl-Lina]

On 2007-10-11 17:57, Inazuma wrote:
lina, why bring up the past when it doesnt event apply to today's game? you know how i feel about scape dolls now.

yes, i liked meseta back then! and i didnt like taking meseta away from others! if this bothers you so much, even to this day, why dont you give me meseta so you can feel better about yourself.


On 2007-10-11 17:49, FOnewearl-Lina wrote:

On 2007-10-11 17:46, Inazuma wrote:
lina, there was an update to the game that changed how deaths work. in the past, using scapes saved money. now, not using em saves money. things have changed. i havent changed. its not very nice of you to post those mails of mine and not tell ppl that it was back in the day before the death penalty change.

They can see the post date in the actual screenshots, it doesn't change the fact that while everyone else was playing for fun, you were an asshat that refused to use moons and left parties because other people refused to use scapes. And on S rank LL no less, liek ohnoes you missed out on 1 PA frag and liek 500 meseta? cry much?


I don't have 2 accounts like you to leech meseta during play, if anything you should be giving ME meseta.

[Inazuma]

lina, once again you forget about changes to the game that make your arguments invalid. in today's psu, if i had a 2nd char sit in town, everyone in the party would get extra meseta from it. if you want to complain about getting extra meseta for free, be my guest.

[FOnewearl-Lina]

On 2007-10-11 18:01, Inazuma wrote:
lina, once again you forget about changes to the game that make your arguments invalid.
Argument: Asshat refuses to revive friend with moon because said friend died in S rank LL without a scape.
Argument: Above mentioned abandons friend in S rank LL because they can no longer acquire S rank, then sends a harsh mail about it.
Argument: Above mentioned refused to do mid-terms because they weren't multiple choice.

Explain just how these arguments are invalidated. I'd assume they would always be common courtesy no matter how PSU rules change.

[Inazuma]

times have changed. if i would revive someone back in the day, they would be alive w/o scapes, rite? thats why i didnt carry moons. i didnt want to support someone not using scapes b/c it puts the party at risk.

i was upset gravity didnt carry scapes, and he was upset i didnt carry moons. so i left. we couldnt reach an agreement, so going our seperate ways seemed like the rite thing to do. once again, things are different now. i will always carry moons and always revive ppl. and if ppl dont want to carry scapes, fine. the only way we can lose meseta from reward is if EVERYONE doesnt use scapes and died at the same time, which includes me. and if that happens, i wouldnt be in much of a position to bitch at others. everyone would be equally responsible.

lina, its stupid to argue about this b/c its all in the past and doesnt matter now. things have changed. we could play together today and never have a chance for this argument to come up, so just relax and move on.

[Kamica]

times have changed. if i would revive someone back in the day, they would be alive w/o scapes, rite? thats why i didnt carry moons. i didnt want to support someone not using scapes b/c it puts the party at risk.

lol



i was upset gravity didnt carry scapes, and he was upset i didnt carry moons. so i left. we couldnt reach an agreement, so going our seperate ways seemed like the rite thing to do. once again, things are different now. i will always carry moons and always revive ppl. and if ppl dont want to carry scapes, fine. the only way we can lose meseta from reward is if EVERYONE doesnt use scapes and died at the same time, which includes me. and if that happens, i wouldnt be in much of a position to bitch at others. everyone would be equally responsible.

I was playing SOLO when you joined UNINVITED. I should have a choice to use scapes or not when I am playing by myself. So what if I don't want to waste my own meseta on scapes if I were to be killed a bunch of times by megid?



lina, its stupid to argue about this b/c its all in the past and doesnt matter now. things have changed. we could play together today and never have a chance for this argument to come up, so just relax and move on.


Despite saying how things have changed, you still don't think of equality for the party. When you leech with your alternate character, the rest of the party has a right to the rewards you reap. But what do you say when I ask you to remove your alt? "If you don't want meseta so badly, give me some". The answer for everything huh?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kamica on 2007-10-11 18:58 ]</font>

[Inazuma]

gravity, there were 4 ppl in the party when i offered to get everyone extra meseta by sitting a 2nd char in town. 3 of the 4 ppl were happy w/ the idea of extra meseta. but only you had a problem w/ it and was demanding more. just because you happened to be leader, you think your opinion is the only one that matters? shouldnt a good leader do whats best for the entire party?

if you wanted to use that char slot for another real player to use, i can understand. but free meseta w/ no drawbacks is win/win for everyone. its important to consider other ppl's viewpoints.

back when i complained about scapes, i was the only one who felt that way, rite? so, i stopped playing w/ you guys. i saw that i was the odd man out, so i should just leave. i dont like harming others, i really dont.

and i dont want to start more arguments w/ anyone, especially about stuff thats in the past.

[Sasamichan]

On 2007-10-11 12:12, Rizen wrote:

On 2007-10-11 02:13, Sasamichan wrote:
The power of God does not apply to video games.
What about the power of the ingame gods?!



There is no such thing as an ingame God.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Haha, best part about this is, you can get banned for having a second account to do that kind of shit.

[Wallin]

On 2007-10-11 20:19, Ffuzzy-Logik wrote:
Haha, best part about this is, you can get banned for having a second account to do that kind of shit.



Err, what?

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-10-11 20:14, Sasamichan wrote:

On 2007-10-11 12:12, Rizen wrote:

On 2007-10-11 02:13, Sasamichan wrote:
The power of God does not apply to video games.
What about the power of the ingame gods?!



There is no such thing as an ingame God.



This coming from the guy using Mirei as an avatar.


On 2007-10-10 17:08, AweOfShe wrote:
Scape Dolls are for cheaters. If god wants you to die, you better damn well die.




The PSU Episode 1 Script says:
--Male Beast: I didn't used to believe in fate. But it seems like now there's some greater force that wants us to live.


Thanks to Sinue V2 for compiling the script. And that line pretty much summed up one of the major themes of Episode 1, I think.

I think the Holy Light wants people to use scape dolls and moon atomizers!

[FOnewearl-Lina]

On 2007-10-11 19:07, Inazuma wrote:
and i dont want to start more arguments w/ anyone, especially about stuff thats in the past.

Oh it's still current, and will remain so until you stop using your second account for botting and faming meseta. You're just lucky ST are too stupid to ban people who use multiple accounts to exploit the system like Square Enix does with FFXI. The Midori I knew used to be like 100% legit and anti cheat, the Midori we have now uses every exploit he can get his hands on and calls it "being strong".

[Sasamichan]

On 2007-10-11 20:26, F-Gattaca wrote:

On 2007-10-11 20:14, Sasamichan wrote:

On 2007-10-11 12:12, Rizen wrote:

On 2007-10-11 02:13, Sasamichan wrote:
The power of God does not apply to video games.
What about the power of the ingame gods?!



There is no such thing as an ingame God.



This coming from the guy using Mirei as an avatar.




What are you trying to say?

[Wallin]

On 2007-10-11 20:29, Sasamichan wrote:

On 2007-10-11 20:26, F-Gattaca wrote:

On 2007-10-11 20:14, Sasamichan wrote:

On 2007-10-11 12:12, Rizen wrote:

On 2007-10-11 02:13, Sasamichan wrote:
The power of God does not apply to video games.
What about the power of the ingame gods?!



There is no such thing as an ingame God.



This coming from the guy using Mirei as an avatar.




What are you trying to say?



Your avatar is the symbol of hope and faith across the worlds and you're saying there's no God, and you don't see the irony?

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-10-11 20:34, Wallin wrote:
Your avatar is the symbol of hope and faith across the worlds and you're saying there's no God, and you don't see the irony?


Pretty much. Especially since the Divine Maiden is analagous to the Pope, seeing as it's the central clerical figure of a major religion.

[PJ]

The thing is, what Inazuma is doing isn't actually cheating or exploiting at all!

Frankly, he's just wasting his earned money for a second account. And if he feels that he wants to, to earn that extra in-game money, that will be useful nowhere else in real life, just by doubling his monthly fee I say, more power to him.

[Sasamichan]

Well, whatever.

[Wallin]

On 2007-10-11 20:41, PJ wrote:
The thing is, what Inazuma is doing isn't actually cheating or exploiting at all!

Frankly, he's just wasting his earned money for a second account. And if he feels that he wants to, to earn that extra in-game money, that will be useful nowhere else in real life, just by doubling his monthly fee I say, more power to him.



I was going to make a second account at the end of 1-Up cup since I need a ton of feathers and don't want to delete the 4 characters I have now if it's not repeatable. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[PJ]

Now, are you saying that as a joke to make me see it as a perspective of cheating, or are you actually saying you'll do it?

Cause, again, that's not cheating, that's just a fucking awful waste of money http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Sasamichan]

On 2007-10-11 20:46, PJ wrote:

Cause, again, that's not cheating, that's just a fucking awful waste of money http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



Well, if you got the money, then more power to them.

[Wallin]

Nope, I'm serious. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif All the formalwear, formaldresses, and swimsuits will be mine... and then as soon as AoI comes out I'll probably wear something different, but I still want them anyway!!

And about the scape dolls, this is getting to be as pointless as arguing over whether techers are obligated to cast Resta instead of using mates. -_-

[AerisZeal]

Why is this thread still alive? >.> Buy scapes if you want to, don't buy them
if you don't want to. If you play with someone who doesn't and you don't
like it, deal and use a moon/x, or don't play with them.

/thread
(Probably not but it'd be nice.)

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-10-11 20:46, PJ wrote:
Now, are you saying that as a joke to make me see it as a perspective of cheating, or are you actually saying you'll do it?

Cause, again, that's not cheating, that's just a fucking awful waste of money http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



If I were to pay for two accounts, it'd only be because I'd want more characters.

But I'd rather wait and hope that our accounts get more slots rather than pay for an entire GL.

[PJ]

Well, yeah, I want more characters too. I'm just putting it in the perspective that it's somehow about, "Exploiting and cheating."

(And the only reason I wouldn't pay, other than not being able to afford it, is because I frankly barely have the time for 4 characters as it is)

[mizukage]

Strangely enough, people are still arguing over scapedolls. The most peaceful solution to this huge dispute would be solo-ing missions until the resta technic is leveled up and so, it will prevent both the need of scapedolls or reviving. Since I only play the extra mode for awhile now, things are different. No scapedolls means game over.

Edit: fixed typo


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mizukage on 2007-10-11 21:36 ]</font>

[Wallin]

Well I think the poll says it all, 32 people out of 115 don't care scape dolls. So expect that 1 out of 5 people you meet won't have one and bring a moon instead. Okey dokey...

[Cz]

har/quick + giresta...i am loving it. You can die as many times as you like because i am gonna run to you and revived your poor soul without scape. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[ljkkjlcm9]

On 2007-10-11 21:40, Wallin wrote:
Well I think the poll says it all, 32 people out of 115 don't care scape dolls. So expect that 1 out of 5 people you meet won't have one and bring a moon instead. Okey dokey...


the poll says, 32 out of 115 people on PSOW, the non typical population, doesn't carry scapedolls. I guarantee the general population, doesn't carry scape dolls they buy from stores every run

THE JACKEL

[F-Gattaca]

On 2007-10-11 21:40, Wallin wrote:
Well I think the poll says it all, 32 people out of 115 don't care scape dolls. So expect that 1 out of 5 people you meet won't have one and bring a moon instead. Okey dokey...



It'd be better if this poll distinguished between 360 and PC/PS2 users ... there's still no word on a patch for the 360 users, is there?

If they still haven't recieved the scape nerf, a lot of 360 users will vote for carrying scape dolls and will be a lot more supportive (or demanding) of having them on hand.

[DraginHikari]

I've remained in the habit of carrying at least 2-3 with me particular in Megid spammed missions like HIVE and such. Also during Dulk Fakis fights becaus strangely enough that seems to be the least likely place to get someone to revive before they finish Fakis off >>

[Germ]

I always carry 9. Even on an A True Darkness you get 10k Meseta. Quit being cheap or don't whine while you are sitting there dead. If you dont want to spend the money dont cry if you miss out on something

[Reipard]

I always carry 9. Even on an A True Darkness you get 10k Meseta. Quit being cheap or don't whine while you are sitting there dead. If you dont want to spend the money dont cry if you miss out on something

This brings a tear to my eye. In the same way as that indian from that commercial where he sheds tears at the people who threw garbage at him from out their car window.

Only admittedly, much stranger.

[Reginaldo]

Google, I thought you were alot smarter then this -_-

I guess you didn't like to play PSO then.

[Googlebonker]

(What, are people waiting for me to respond to that?)

Look, I could argue my views of this topic, and others could argue theirs until who-knows-when. The points we CAN take from the information in this thread are:

Some people do carry Scape Dolls.
Some people don't carry Scape Dolls.
People that play the XBox360 version are more likely to have Scape Dolls than not because of the death penalty.
There are views that this is a teamwork game, and in this game, you should use Moon Atomizers instead of Scape Dolls because they are cheaper.
There are views that people who don't carry Scape Dolls are inconsiderate of others' time and money.
(Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

You're right, as far as PSO goes. Most people didn't have Scape Dolls, and I think I rember trying to compensate people for those when one was used on me. Some might have taken it, and some might have said, "it's np" and moved on. I remember in Dark Falz battles, if you were the one getting incapacitated a lot, you didn't have Scape Dolls, and there was no Force, you had BETTER have dropped all your Moons so people could revive you.

So, what do we do now? Keep throwing in our strongly-willed opinions and observations about Scape Dolls, start a flame war, and blacklist everyone that doesn't agree with us, or try to find a solution? If most of the people in a community do a certain thing or set of things, it's likely to effect the people that don't necessarily want to change.

Come on, people! What can we do?! : D

[Rizen]

Well said Googlebonker. Well said.

I do remember back in the PSO days that everyone would drop 1 Moon Atomizers around the circle so that when someone died. You would just pick one up and use it. Good times...

[Nyreal]

People aren't as polite as back in PSO. The fact that there's now an actual economy has turned alot of people into jerks. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[BigBadWolf]

w00t broke the tie.
Down with Scape Dolls, (.'_')p
Up with Newman Fortetechers (>'.')b!

[Egg99]

On 2007-10-12 09:27, Germ wrote:
I always carry 9. Even on an A True Darkness you get 10k Meseta. Quit being cheap or don't whine while you are sitting there dead. If you dont want to spend the money dont cry if you miss out on something



You fail, badly.

Off to MTV with you.

[DaRkWoLf30]

I bring 10 usually, only once i can start doing S mission.

[Reipard]

So, what do we do now? Keep throwing in our strongly-willed opinions and observations about Scape Dolls, start a flame war, and blacklist everyone that doesn't agree with us, or try to find a solution? If most of the people in a community do a certain thing or set of things, it's likely to effect the people that don't necessarily want to change.

Come on, people! What can we do?! : D

You're calling people to action as if there is genuinely some way for the community to force people to change. People will be people unfortunately and any kind of organized efforts you do will only spur a division and discourage that change.

Really, little can be done but just stop taking it seriously and taking PSU like it's supposed to be; a fun, cooperative experience. I don't give a damn if people die without Scapes. I buy Moon Atomizers because I want to resurrect people, not because I expect things from them. Likewise, if people don't have Moon Atomizers, I'm a little annoyed but it ultimately doesn't matter to me.

[mizukage]

My impression from this poll on scapedolls: The fun & cooperative online multiplayer PSU experience cease to exist. Many people have started a flame war over teamwork equality, its not like people have to exchange real money with meseta in order to purchase scapedolls, moon atomizers and photon charges for resta and giresta. Perhaps, outside this poll, in the actual world of PSU/AOI online, things are actually much different. PSU/AOI is all about teamwork!!!

[Googlebonker]

On 2007-10-14 18:55, Reipard wrote:

So, what do we do now? Keep throwing in our strongly-willed opinions and observations about Scape Dolls, start a flame war, and blacklist everyone that doesn't agree with us, or try to find a solution? If most of the people in a community do a certain thing or set of things, it's likely to effect the people that don't necessarily want to change.

Come on, people! What can we do?! : D

You're calling people to action as if there is genuinely some way for the community to force people to change. People will be people unfortunately and any kind of organized efforts you do will only spur a division and discourage that change.

Really, little can be done but just stop taking it seriously and taking PSU like it's supposed to be; a fun, cooperative experience. I don't give a damn if people die without Scapes. I buy Moon Atomizers because I want to resurrect people, not because I expect things from them. Likewise, if people don't have Moon Atomizers, I'm a little annoyed but it ultimately doesn't matter to me.



So, should we sit back, let the Scape divisions continue (because there's already division on this issue), and do nothing? You've basically said, "Everyone should play like me, and everything would be better!" How is that helping any divisions, especially when others have already stated that they don't want to play the way you're proposing?

No matter what we propose, there's going to be SOMEONE who doesn't like it. How can we get an effective majority of the community to approach this issue in the same way, or am I wasting my time bringing all this up in the first place?

While we're at it, how about we discuss the 1Up Platinum Cup's impact on this issue? The event missions have time parameters. I wouldn't be surprised to see parties with comments saying something about Scape Dolls.

[Reipard]

So, should we sit back, let the Scape divisions continue (because there's already division on this issue), and do nothing? You've basically said, "Everyone should play like me, and everything would be better!" How is that helping any divisions, especially when others have already stated that they don't want to play the way you're proposing?

I said absolutely nothing of the sort. Please do not put words in my mouth.
What I said was that you're talking about this like it's some kind of political issue or something that can be solved by taking up to arms and rallying against The Man. It's not. People will be people and no amount of arguing or shooting them down is going to change their opinion if they're unwilling to listen.

I'd think this very thread you created would attest to that the most.

PSU doesn't need to be taken this seriously, is my point. Scapes or no scapes isn't supposed to be some kind of issue that affects us all like pollution and taxes.


No matter what we propose, there's going to be SOMEONE who doesn't like it. How can we get an effective majority of the community to approach this issue in the same way, or am I wasting my time bringing all this up in the first place?

You're wasting your time, honestly. Nothing proposed in a thread such as this will spur action of any kind, much less solve any problem.


While we're at it, how about we discuss the 1Up Platinum Cup's impact on this issue? The event missions have time parameters. I wouldn't be surprised to see parties with comments saying something about Scape Dolls.

Oh, good. More Urgent Orders-style efficiency BS to look forward to http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

[ljkkjlcm9]

I'd just like to say, playing a run at True Darkness today with random people, I got a scape DURING the run, had none when we started. I died during the boss and someone literally said to me, "Don't buy scapes, we have moons."

This person was not a PSOW person in the least, and is more of the common person. I'll tell you this right now, it's only the high level elitist people that get mad about people not bringing scapes and feel everyone should carry them. No common players feel you should. That's my last statement on the subject.

THE JACKEL

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-10-14 22:13, Reipard wrote:
Oh, good. More Urgent Orders-style efficiency BS to look forward to http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.

I hope so. Urgent Orders was great because it really separated the players who know what the hell they were doing (or could at least take advice without getting their little feelings hurt) from those that JUST WANT TO PLAY MY OWN WAY OKGOD F U DONT U TRY TO TELL ME WUT ROOM 2 GO 2 OHBTW I DUN WANNA SKIP ENEMIES WTF NO JAGGERZ REMAEK MISSION I CAN TELL FRUM DA SEED PODZ EVEN THOUGH THATS CLEARLY A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT BAAAAAAAAAWWWW!!1!!11



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ffuzzy-Logik on 2007-10-14 22:27 ]</font>

[physic]

i dont see why you want people to bring a bunch of scapes, they cost a lot compared to to moons, and if you have a force then its semi free. I think its kind of just being anal. Unless the level has some type of high likely hood of everyone getting killed at the same time it seems excessive.

Im guessing you just want people to burn lots of cash.

[Ryo_Hayasa]

Oh with special event missions that ARE timed based. and require abit of coordination with a big price on the line, like the 1up cup missions i would, well i would change my opinion i would, personally (because even though i consider myself an excellent player, i tend to be a Hero alot. Umm, this might sound silly, but i'll actually take a Foie or two for my team mate, especially a Force who's trying to keep us all alive.)

Nothing is more annoying that going into the animation of Resta only to get hit and DIE as resta goes up. healing everyone but yourself.

Off topic: even funnier when you start casting Giresta, and you get blind sided and die, as giresta casts and you resurect your target. it gets you thinking, isn't it suppose to resurect you too? e_e

ANYWAY back to the point.

If it is TRULY important and i'm not in charge, or just out of courtesy i would carry make 3 dolls with me. 15k isn't terrible hard to come by, and after doing some grinds of S2 missions you make it back fairly quick. as opposed to 50k. or whatever.

Basically not everyone is going to agree on this, not everyone is going to be happy.
There's just NO way to please everyone, but come on. we've come a long way, remember how vicious some of us were when we had the death penalty (sorry 360ers...no offense.)

[mizukage]

Funny thing about giresta.. It would surely suck when one casts giresta to revive the whole team, yet to be left out eatting dirt for not having a scapedoll.

[Reginaldo]

Google, there is no solution. The best solution of all would of been to never create this topic to begin with. Don't expect us to find some "solution" for you when you're the one stirring up the issue to begin with.

Do you honestly expect an entire community of internet strangers to band together and all have the same point of view on something as unimportant as scape dolls?

It's hard to find a solution when there was no real issue to begin with.

Do yourself a favor and just ask for a mod to lock this.

[CelestialBlade]

He could just buy everyone Scapes, if he wants it that much. :D?

[Reipard]

I hope so. Urgent Orders was great because it really separated the players who know what the hell they were doing (or could at least take advice without getting their little feelings hurt) from those that JUST WANT TO PLAY MY OWN WAY OKGOD F U DONT U TRY TO TELL ME WUT ROOM 2 GO 2 OHBTW I DUN WANNA SKIP ENEMIES WTF NO JAGGERZ REMAEK MISSION I CAN TELL FRUM DA SEED PODZ EVEN THOUGH THATS CLEARLY A BUNCH OF BULLSHIT BAAAAAAAAAWWWW!!1!!11

lol no.
People playing Urgent Orders got obsessed with efficiency to the point of it being ridiculous. UO wasn't a mission that encouraged THAT much efficiency. You could kill every mob and still S rank it just fine, but there's these people that wanted it done QUICKLY and EFFICIENTLY and turned into gigantic jackasses if you wanted to play it casually as opposed to running Jaggos and rushrushrushing through the mission so you have 5 minutes to spare when S ranking it instead of 2.

Doing the quick, efficient thing was fun for a while but after about 20 runs I was like 'OK got enough MP want to exp run now' and UO was also the best place for exp so that worked out. Too bad people joined clearly labeled exp runs and bitched/whined about me going ~_~ when they pull the usual UO efficiency BS such as skipping mobs.

Thankfully 1up Cup does have different circumstances in that the team missions aren't necessarily where the main profit lies; it's what they lead to. So perhaps it won't be too bad.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Reipard on 2007-10-15 05:33 ]</font>

[BigBadWolf]

I understand what the OP is trying to do, he wants to find the general consensus on scape dolls in a party? Should we carry, them or shouldn't we? Once the community decides what's the just course of action, they will then work together to convince the minority of players to play a certain way to ultimately the benefit of everyone in the game.

That said, the OP is smoking crack. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif
The PSU community is different from the typical MMO community in that there is absolutely no incentive to get better at the game. A good example is drops, a "bad" player has just as much of a chance at getting a uber rare then a "good" player because it's so random.
In exp, the only difference between a good party and a bad one is usually like 6 minutes per run, which equates up to an hour saved every 10 runs. This game has no guild system, nor does it have a force partying system, or PvP. Unlike MMOs, the hardcore community in PSU has no effect on the playstyle of the casual gamer.

I think a more interesting poll would be to the PSO-W players believe do any polls by forumites have any relevant impact on the general PSU population? If you want an answer to that, just look at the economy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BigBadWolf on 2007-10-15 06:02 ]</font>

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2007-10-15 05:32, Reipard wrote:
stuff

I don't know about you, but Urgent Orders was by far the most enjoyable mission yet on PSU for me, not because of the great EXP, not because the ridiculously large Meseta reward (although I certainly didn't mind that), but because it actually took skill, teamwork, and coordination to do well. In other words, it's the closest PSU has come to challenge mode, and I want more of it.

Sure, you could go through and kill everything and take your time and still get S, but that's boring. You can go through any old mission and kill everything to get S. Besides, you got just as much EXP if you skipped enemies and got onto the next run faster.

And don't blame me for the joining party thing, since I never did that with Urgent Udders. I always made my own parties and waited for people to join, then made sure they knew what the hell they were doing and booted the ones who wouldn't listen.

[OldCoot]

On 2007-10-14 22:18, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
I'd just like to say, playing a run at True Darkness today with random people, I got a scape DURING the run, had none when we started. I died during the boss and someone literally said to me, "Don't buy scapes, we have moons."

This person was not a PSOW person in the least, and is more of the common person. I'll tell you this right now, it's only the high level elitist people that get mad about people not bringing scapes and feel everyone should carry them. No common players feel you should. That's my last statement on the subject.

THE JACKEL



Interesting. Usually when we run True Darkness S2 we all see that carrying scapes isn't worth it, so as a party we all agree to put them away and just revive each other when we get Koed. If the party wants to go for the rank and payout, then we agree to carry them. If I join a random party, I will be carrying scapes. I don't want to blow it for others.

I have found players who valued their pallet above the mission rewards that the rest of the party could have obtained.

[CAST-Sapphire]

Normaly I try to have 10 scaps, but I guess with the DP being taken away, I really don't need to. So long as the group has Moons.

[Reipard]

I don't know about you, but Urgent Orders was by far the most enjoyable mission yet on PSU for me, not because of the great EXP, not because the ridiculously large Meseta reward (although I certainly didn't mind that), but because it actually took skill, teamwork, and coordination to do well. In other words, it's the closest PSU has come to challenge mode, and I want more of it.

I have no qualms about the mission, it's that it brought out the absolute worst in people.

Once the novelty of it wore off and I just wanted to run it, as opposed to super rush x S-rank action or Jaggo Hunts, I could not. Because either nobody would join me or people would join, then turn into jerks and start whining as soon as they found out I wasn't in it for that mad MP. I got maybe two good parties together once I got sick of S-ranking it after over two weeks of running it.


Sure, you could go through and kill everything and take your time and still get S, but that's boring. You can go through any old mission and kill everything to get S. Besides, you got just as much EXP if you skipped enemies and got onto the next run faster. [QUOTE]

Been there, done that, do not care anymore. If they didn't like it, then they shouldn't have joined the clearly labeled 'EXP RUN DOES NOT SKIP' with description 'NOT GOING FOR S RANK K?'

[quote]And don't blame me for the joining party thing, since I never did that with Urgent Udders. I always made my own parties and waited for people to join, then made sure they knew what the hell they were doing and booted the ones who wouldn't listen.

Don't blame you what the?
If you're implying that I used to join people's parties and then complain about how they run it, then you're dead wrong. That would be positively ridiculous. No, people used to join my exp runs and then whine at me because I didn't want to do the 'rushrush omg must be S rank within record time' thing until I booted them or they got frustrated and left.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

Don't get me wrong, I agree 100% with you when it comes to idiots not looking at party names/comments to know what the party's about. Consequently, all mine were labeled something like "S-Rank Speed Runs" with a comment something along the lines of "don't care about Jaggers."

But yeah, I'm with you on that. People really need to looks before blindly joining parties.

[MelodyKuro]

I have a scape with me all the time, in case of emergencies.

[Reipard]

Strangely enough, I thought that hadn't posted http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif. It saves me having to retype it at home.


Don't get me wrong, I agree 100% with you when it comes to idiots not looking at party names/comments to know what the party's about. Consequently, all mine were labeled something like "S-Rank Speed Runs" with a comment something along the lines of "don't care about Jaggers."

But yeah, I'm with you on that. People really need to looks before blindly joining parties.

I realize I might have inadvertantly given the wrong first impression anyway, so I'll take full blame for the initial misinterpretation. Yes, indeed, people need to read party name/descriptions a bit more. It's usually not a problem during normal missions because almost everyone runs those casually; it was mainly the nature of Urgent Orders.

I'd kill for a real C-mode in PSU.

[Kinako78]

I admit that Scape Dolls are useful, but not everybody has the means to drop 50k to buy a full supply of them. Especially new players. Before the death penalty changed, I understood why people wanted their teammates carrying scape dolls. But now, it's just unnecessary. But the elitists of PSU are still going to complain and they may come to find that no one wants to play with them except for their fellow elitists. They probably won't care, though.

[Sasamichan]

If you have to spend 50k on scapes every run, you fail.

[Kinako78]

I mean when you buy your first batch, of course. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[TranceZiggy]

Referring to the original post/question.. I think this is an area that defines the PSO Vets from the PSU Newbies.

Myself, coming from however many bloody years of PSO (since DC V1), it was normal to see someone die and lay there waiting to be revived. Back on PSO, scapes were rare. VERY rare. So, as soon as someone died, it was the party's priority to revive that person, because, one person dies, the whle party starts to slide. The whole thing was about being a team, we watched each ther's backs, and nine times out of ten, if you neglected to revive your mate 5 metres away from you, thinking you could take the mob out quickly, you were almost always raped in the face with Megid or swarmed and destroyed gang-bang style. Ult Falz, I can't remember how many times quickly reviving someone saved the entire party's ass. One person dies, then we run to revive them, as theyre reviving the rest of the party is being wiped out, but during the chaos, theyre invulnerable to the crap going on around them, because theyre being revived. And THAT saved parties SO many times.

I still follow that reaction on PSU. Someone dies, i stop attacking shit and run to them. Most PSU players I see will leave people dead and continue killing the mob until everythings gone, THEN they will revive. I even knew someone who stood by the saying: "If you die without scapes, I will not revive you until all monsters have been defeated." Imho, that was just plain rude. Selfish, whatever you like lol. And most PSU players have become accustom to everyone having 10 scapes, because of the old death penalty, and they still stick to that idea that we all have scapes.

Do what you like in parties, be selfish and take the monsters by yourself and let people lay there dead, but If you fuck up and get owned in the process, or die without scapes yourself, don't go having a whinge that people aren't reviving you.

I carry scapes, simply because theyre convenient and readily available. I'll buy 10, and do as many missions as I want, until I run out of scapes and start laying there dead, then grab another 10 and wait until I run out again, so I usually walk into a mission with 4-7 scapes. But ALWAYS max Moons.

End Rant ;o

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TranceZiggy on 2007-10-16 12:14 ]</font>