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ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 12:51 AM
I rarely pick up a melee weapon to fight. But in this case i decided to post this since to me its pretty werid the following issue. All other weapons, incluiding the new ones are beign shared with other jobs. As we know, whips and slicers are not just exclusive of one job. Yes, its true only one job has an S rank for it, but they have at least an A rank. About Double Sabers, i think someone noticed that only Fighgunners can use them. Not S rank only, A rank too. Can anyone explain me why? To be honest, Fighgunner is not my favorite job. Lacks on some bullets, and a rifle is needed. But i was just wondering why they keep with double sabers.

Oh by the way, you can also answer to the question "what job would you like to have A rank Double Saber?". I think maybe.....ummm........Acrofighter?

Oh, im sure this is one of top ten doubts on Phantasy Star Universe. Please dont get mad if i repost, i promise i searcged for it.

and... another thing. This is absoluty not a topic againts Fighgunners. By some reason everytime i ask this, the people who likes the job get offended O_o






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChaosAngel92 on 2007-10-14 22:53 ]</font>

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 12:52 AM
double post >_> read up

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChaosAngel92 on 2007-10-14 22:52 ]</font>

Nyreal
Oct 15, 2007, 12:53 AM
Yeah... I think Acrofighters and Fortefighters deserve this weapon.

February
Oct 15, 2007, 12:54 AM
I say why not, others should be able to use them. I wish the acro classes could use them as well.

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 12:54 AM
yeah fortefighters, why not?

Umberger
Oct 15, 2007, 12:55 AM
Fortetechers are also the only class to get A+S Rod access. It's just a little perk that will keep people interested in the class I guess. =p

Nyreal
Oct 15, 2007, 12:58 AM
but why on earth would Figunners of all things get a Melee weapon? That seems much more like a perk that they'd add to Fortefighter.

February
Oct 15, 2007, 01:01 AM
"cause we are mostly a melee class? The only S Rank we can are Melee weapons.

Chuck_Norris
Oct 15, 2007, 01:02 AM
On 2007-10-14 22:53, Nyreal wrote:
Yeah... I think Acrofighters deserve this weapon.



Fix'd. Noobsabers, in MY fortefighter?! GTFO!!

ljkkjlcm9
Oct 15, 2007, 01:05 AM
let's be honest. Any fortefighter, wouldn't use the weapon because they have S rank other crap, A rank doublesabers would be a waste.

And Acrofighter wouldn't use it either because it completely ruins their 1 handed versatility with S rank shadoogs.

There is no other class that would even consider using it, so there's no need for any other class to have it. It's really that simple.

THE JACKEL

beatrixkiddo
Oct 15, 2007, 01:08 AM
Split it into a single hand version! I wanna slap boomas with a paddle~

Uncle_bob
Oct 15, 2007, 01:09 AM
Fortegunners and Fortefighters have to share their toys..

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 01:11 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:05, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
let's be honest. Any fortefighter, wouldn't use the weapon because they have S rank other crap, A rank doublesabers would be a waste.

And Acrofighter wouldn't use it either because it completely ruins their 1 handed versatility with S rank shadoogs.

There is no other class that would even consider using it, so there's no need for any other class to have it. It's really that simple.

THE JACKEL



Ouch, excellent arguments, i must accept your right.
But considering that maybe the doublesabers are with FG for beign an hybrid weapon (ATP and ATA)and also considering its one fast, i dont see why Acrofighters shouldnt have it. Yes its true, they are 1 handed experts, but they also have 2 handed weapons. Fist and, well obiously sabers. Now for me the double saber its a pretty fast weapon, imagine it with the speed bonus of AF. For me, it suits very good.

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 01:13 AM
Oh.. and also. how about this. Fighgunners win A rank Slicers and Acrofighters win A rank double savers. Fair trade.
Oh and by the way, to the one that said "Fortegunners need to share their toys too". Honestly, dont make me laugh. But anyway, its true that Fighgunner need a god damn rifle.

Chuck_Norris
Oct 15, 2007, 01:14 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:08, beatrixkiddo wrote:
Split it into a single hand version! I wanna slap boomas with a paddle~



Well....then you'd just have a saber. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

And @ jackel. Maybe wartecher could get them. Protrannie could use them too, i guess.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chuck_norris on 2007-10-14 23:16 ]</font>

ljkkjlcm9
Oct 15, 2007, 01:18 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:11, ChaosAngel92 wrote:
Yes its true, they are 1 handed experts, but they also have 2 handed weapons. Fist and, well obiously sabers. Now for me the double saber its a pretty fast weapon, imagine it with the speed bonus of AF. For me, it suits very good.

you'll see soon enough less and less acrofighters using the two handed weapons. The only ones I'd even consider are twin sabers and twin daggers. But the entire reason they got rid of the twin sabers from the original BETA is because they want people not to use the two handed weapons often. Sure they gave them more two handed options, but that's not their main use

plus if they gave doublesabers to AF the only difference would be one uses Xbows and Mechguns, while the other uses cards... seriously


On 2007-10-14 23:13, ChaosAngel92 wrote:
But anyway, its true that Fighgunner need a god damn rifle.

all of fighgunner's ranged weapons are mobile weapons. Even with the addition of shadoog. That's just not the style of a fighgunner. Fighgunner needs an S rank gun, not another gun.


On 2007-10-14 23:14, chuck_norris wrote:
And @ jackel. Maybe wartecher could get them. Protrannie could use them too, i guess.


Maybe wartecher actually, considering they already have the least S ranks, giving them another A rank wouldn't be bad. But PT, they get all S rank weapons and EX traps, they have no need for anything else.

THE JACKEL


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ljkkjlcm9 on 2007-10-14 23:21 ]</font>

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 01:26 AM
Wartecher with Double Sabers? Sounds funky, there is something that dosnt match. Now i need a question answered. Obiously all this discussion started beetwen a friend and me because i wanted to recreate my RAmarl from PSO. Those veterans as me know that they can use some double sabers. My question is, Fighgunner is like RAmarl from PSO? Or its more like RAmar?

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 01:28 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:18, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:



On 2007-10-14 23:13, ChaosAngel92 wrote:
But anyway, its true that Fighgunner need a god damn rifle.

all of fighgunner's ranged weapons are mobile weapons. Even with the addition of shadoog. That's just not the style of a fighgunner. Fighgunner needs an S rank gun, not another gun.



Yeah, keep dreaming with the Twin Dualies. But that is only a high privilage for my sweets Guntechers AKA Gunslingers ^.^

Garanz-Baranz
Oct 15, 2007, 01:29 AM
Heh, Fortefighters would make the Double Saber so much more useful then on it's Fighgunner user.

Fortefighters have the DFP and the HP to survive the bunk and bulk of almost anything, their lesser EVP reduces interuptions.

Admitably, The Double Saber has a bad reputation, as said by one above poster, refering as "Noobsabers", aside that, it's moderatly fast and powerful.

I have never used a Fighgunner to level ten, but I've used both common PA's on the Double Saber, both are great in power, but the Fighgunner is just lacking the brute wall needed to make it unmatched.

Fortefighters Axe and a Fighgunners Double Saber are far different, sure, 90% of the Fighgunners using double sabers say that our Axe matches their Double Saber, quite wrong.

Axes are best as defencive breakers, and utility masters, while Double Sabers are anti mobs.

Fortefighter surely deserves A-grade Double Sabers, being in the name FORTEfighter. Id trade S-grade Twin Saber usability for A-grade Doubles usability any day o.o

All in all, Double Sabers are powerful, and agreeably should be shared across with Fortefighter atleast. it's not right for the Fighgunner, a HYBRID class to have it's very own weapon.

Also another argument, Why not give Protransers Rods? biggest Force weapon really.

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 01:31 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:29, Garanz-Baranz wrote:

Also another argument, Why not give Protransers Rods? biggest Force weapon really.



is that sarcasm?

ljkkjlcm9
Oct 15, 2007, 01:33 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:29, Garanz-Baranz wrote:
Heh, Fortefighters would make the Double Saber so much more useful then on it's Fighgunner user.

Fortefighters have the DFP and the HP to survive the bunk and bulk of almost anything, their lesser EVP reduces interuptions.

Admitably, The Double Saber has a bad reputation, as said by one above poster, refering as "Noobsabers", aside that, it's moderatly fast and powerful.

I have never used a Fighgunner to level ten, but I've used both common PA's on the Double Saber, both are great in power, but the Fighgunner is just lacking the brute wall needed to make it unmatched.

Fortefighters Axe and a Fighgunners Double Saber are far different, sure, 90% of the Fighgunners using double sabers say that our Axe matches their Double Saber, quite wrong.

Axes are best as defencive breakers, and utility masters, while Double Sabers are anti mobs.

Fortefighter surely deserves A-grade Double Sabers, being in the name FORTEfighter. Id trade S-grade Twin Saber usability for A-grade Doubles usability any day o.o

All in all, Double Sabers are powerful, and agreeably should be shared across with Fortefighter atleast. it's not right for the Fighgunner, a HYBRID class to have it's very own weapon.

Also another argument, Why not give Protransers Rods? biggest Force weapon really.

you're absolutely right, Doublesaber is anti-mobs. But most mobs you use it on are small-medium enemies where even figh doesn't have a problem. I rarely ever have a problem using my doublesaber in the situations it best applies

Not only that, I've always seen fortefighter has the big hit, big enemy, 1v1 master. While figh to me has always been AoE mob destruction melee. Figh have the higher ATA to hit multiple enemies, while FF have the power to get behind one big enemy and just pound away.

Secondly, everyone arguing for AF to get it
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/ljkkjlcm9/AFFIcompare.jpg
if you give AF doublesabers as well, what really separates these two classes?
ok, figh gets... spears, swords, mechguns, xbows
while acro gets... cards
and then which has which S ranks

Now protransers with rods? Come on, they don't even have techs, let's be realistic

THE JACKEL




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ljkkjlcm9 on 2007-10-14 23:35 ]</font>

Garanz-Baranz
Oct 15, 2007, 01:33 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:31, ChaosAngel92 wrote:

On 2007-10-14 23:29, Garanz-Baranz wrote:

Also another argument, Why not give Protransers Rods? biggest Force weapon really.



is that sarcasm?



Posibly no, thing is, why does Protranser need the Force levels when the ONLY force weapon it get's is the Bow?

Chuck_Norris
Oct 15, 2007, 01:37 AM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/ljkkjlcm9/AFFIcompare.jpg
O_o

Does that thing say fortefighter gets level30 bullets?! i thought we only got level20.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chuck_norris on 2007-10-14 23:38 ]</font>

Garanz-Baranz
Oct 15, 2007, 01:38 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:33, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:

On 2007-10-14 23:29, Garanz-Baranz wrote:
Heh, Fortefighters would make the Double Saber so much more useful then on it's Fighgunner user.

Fortefighters have the DFP and the HP to survive the bunk and bulk of almost anything, their lesser EVP reduces interuptions.

Admitably, The Double Saber has a bad reputation, as said by one above poster, refering as "Noobsabers", aside that, it's moderatly fast and powerful.

I have never used a Fighgunner to level ten, but I've used both common PA's on the Double Saber, both are great in power, but the Fighgunner is just lacking the brute wall needed to make it unmatched.

Fortefighters Axe and a Fighgunners Double Saber are far different, sure, 90% of the Fighgunners using double sabers say that our Axe matches their Double Saber, quite wrong.

Axes are best as defencive breakers, and utility masters, while Double Sabers are anti mobs.

Fortefighter surely deserves A-grade Double Sabers, being in the name FORTEfighter. Id trade S-grade Twin Saber usability for A-grade Doubles usability any day o.o

All in all, Double Sabers are powerful, and agreeably should be shared across with Fortefighter atleast. it's not right for the Fighgunner, a HYBRID class to have it's very own weapon.

Also another argument, Why not give Protransers Rods? biggest Force weapon really.

you're absolutely right, Doublesaber is anti-mobs. But most mobs you use it on are small-medium enemies where even figh doesn't have a problem. I rarely ever have a problem using my doublesaber in the situations it best applies

Not only that, I've always seen fortefighter has the big hit, big enemy, 1v1 master. While figh to me has always been AoE mob destruction melee. Figh have the higher ATA to hit multiple enemies, while FF have the power to get behind one big enemy and just pound away.

Secondly, everyone arguing for AF to get it
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/ljkkjlcm9/AFFIcompare.jpg
if you give AF doublesabers as well, what really separates these two classes?
ok, figh gets... spears, swords, mechguns, xbows
while acro gets... cards
and then which has which S ranks

Now protransers with rods? Come on, they don't even have techs, let's be realistic

THE JACKEL




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ljkkjlcm9 on 2007-10-14 23:35 ]</font>
AF? I was talking only on a Fortefighters behalf. <.< If a Fortefighter got Double Sabers, it's only going to rid the status of FIGHGUNNER ONLY, and reduce the Fighgunner population a smidge, which probably is a good thing sence 80% of my past parties had atleast one Fighgunner, 60% had 2 or more.

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 01:38 AM
Ok Jackel i got it. I bealive your stats arguments and etc.. Your right, but to be honest, i still want that Fighgunner share the doublesaber toy. It something like...how may i explain you....balance beetwen jobs? And also people use doublesabers cause it looks pretty good. The weapon is all fashion. And now that yohimehi is on the production, hell more. And with that new PA? Absolute Dance call? Dammit, they share it or Fighgunners get A rifles.

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 01:39 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:37, chuck_norris wrote:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/ljkkjlcm9/AFFIcompare.jpg
O_o

Does that thing say fortefighter gets level30 bullets?! i thought we only got level20.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chuck_norris on 2007-10-14 23:38 ]</font>


fortefighter?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChaosAngel92 on 2007-10-14 23:39 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChaosAngel92 on 2007-10-14 23:40 ]</font>

ljkkjlcm9
Oct 15, 2007, 01:40 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:38, ChaosAngel92 wrote:
Ok Jackel i got it. I bealive your stats arguments and etc.. Your right, but to be honest, i still want that Fighgunner share the doublesaber toy. It something like...how may i explain you....balance beetwen jobs? And also people use doublesabers cause it looks pretty good. The weapon is all fashion. And now that yohimehi is on the production, hell more. And with that new PA? Absolute Dance call? Dammit, they share it or Fighgunners get A rifles.


so either figh has to share it, or get another weapon? lol sounds like you're just making demands for everything... I can see why they have it set up that way, it just doesn't apply to any other classes intended play style.

and chuck, that was figh vs acrofighter, no fortefighter anywhere there

Garanz-the AF stuff wasn't directed towards you, but to the other posters saying AF should get it

THE JACKEL

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ljkkjlcm9 on 2007-10-14 23:41 ]</font>

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 01:42 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:40, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:

On 2007-10-14 23:38, ChaosAngel92 wrote:
Ok Jackel i got it. I bealive your stats arguments and etc.. Your right, but to be honest, i still want that Fighgunner share the doublesaber toy. It something like...how may i explain you....balance beetwen jobs? And also people use doublesabers cause it looks pretty good. The weapon is all fashion. And now that yohimehi is on the production, hell more. And with that new PA? Absolute Dance call? Dammit, they share it or Fighgunners get A rifles.


so either figh has to share it, or get another weapon? lol sounds like you're just making demands for everything... I can see why they have it set up that way, it just doesn't apply to any other classes intended play style.

and chuck, that was figh vs acrofighter, no fortefighter anywhere there

THE JACKEL



Sorry. Your right.
But still................double sabers will BE shared someday >_>. MUAHAHA!

Im not a GM but..... topic close.

Wait..before of that, i incist, most people uses double sabers for fashion!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChaosAngel92 on 2007-10-14 23:43 ]</font>

ljkkjlcm9
Oct 15, 2007, 01:45 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:42, ChaosAngel92 wrote:
Wait..before of that, i incist, most people uses double sabers for fashion!

and that's why fighgunner gets the label noobgunner, because people play it for the weapon, not because they actually know how to play the class

THE JACKEL

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 01:48 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:45, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:

On 2007-10-14 23:42, ChaosAngel92 wrote:
Wait..before of that, i incist, most people uses double sabers for fashion!

and that's why fighgunner gets the label noobgunner, because people play it for the weapon, not because they actually know how to play the class

THE JACKEL



But what about that? I mean, lets face it, PSU is a game of fashion and style and hunt the weapons you like for look good and clothes and etc etc etc. Now this is a question, not something againts. Those rly ppl care that much about stats and if you do 294329480240820 k more damage than the other user?

Nai_Calus
Oct 15, 2007, 01:50 AM
Double Sabers would make absolutely no sense with the AF playstyle, or with their current weapon selection.

Rifles would likewise make no sense on FI.

If anyone else got DSes, it should be WT. God knows that class needs all the help it can get.

Garanz-Baranz
Oct 15, 2007, 01:53 AM
If Fortefighter was anti-Big Enemy, then why does it get the AoE Long Sword, and mob killing Twin Dagger/Saber? and then the Knuckles?

Fortefighter is designed as the hard hitting T.A.N.K. in a group, Fighgunners are the swift hit and run fighters.

Fortefighters can do more damage then a Fighgunner, and take more too, WAY more, the ATA is allways underestimated, Zodiarides and Zodails are the crackpot of that stuff.

I see Fortefighters as the front lines, charging in as a WALL, Twin Sabers/Daggers can do tons of damage repeatedly, heck, Spendor Crush on a Fortefighter rules in mid-mob, they can go in a battle and stay in a long time, since their HP/DFP lets them.

I see Fighgunners as hit and run due to the fact that their ATP is quite lower then a FF's, and their EVP/ATA allows for fast hit's and getaways. I've never seen DFP on Fighs that can handle mobs, unless that Figh has like a 50% armor, he's going to get hurt.

Fortefighters are anti-mob, only their Axes are one on one/two. Fighgunners are anti-mob with long range to keep from heavy damage, mid range fighters if you will.

Niloklives
Oct 15, 2007, 02:03 AM
[b]On 2007-10-14 23:33, Garanz-Baranz
Posibly no, thing is, why does Protranser need the Force levels when the ONLY force weapon it get's is the Bow?


cause you have to earn your goddamned wings. protranser is an awesome class. if you have to run HSM 3 times more what difference does it make to you?

Anyway, look at how much they've changed the classes around in AoI. the rebalancing really took a bite out of the fighgunner class.

fortefighter can now use almost all melee weapons at S rank, and with the upcoming patches will even be able to infectlarge enemies with their handguns

fortegunner can now use full combos on single handed weapons, which will up their melee capablility to ridiculous levels for being a gunner class. they also are the second best trap users in the game.

fortetecher has exclusive access to lvl 31+ attack techs...and is still the only class that can use rods...enough said

guntecher now is a good healer, can actualy make use of attack techs and is second in buff/debuff with the only class beating them being Acrotecher. they were also given access to S rank bows.

Wartecher now can make full use of two handed weapons, can melee and cast from one palette slot, can better use cards bows and hand guns, got access to S rank wands, can now use swords and makes significantly better use of attach techs. The HUmar is back.

Protranser got a massive atp boost and can use all of their weapons at S rank.

Acrotechers and acro fighters are now, so there isn't much to be said about them, but they're the only classes that ca use the new weapon types at S rank, get really good stats and Acrotecher gets exclusive access to lvl 31 buffs and debuffs.

Fighgunner got the same basic upgrades everyone else did and got access to the new weapons like everyone else, no new S ranks, no significant changes to gameplay or clear understanding of a particular role in the group, but they got to keep exclusive rights to DSes. seriously...they got enough upgrades to keep things fair and no one else gets to play with their "defining" weapon. we've already got people leaving fighgunner for AF and FF, if DSes were more accessible, with fortegunner able to melee well, we might see a lot of the more gunner oriented fighs move that way too for the cost down on xbows and mechs...the town of fighville would be nearly a ghost town.

I think its fine as it is



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-10-15 00:07 ]</font>

Zorafim
Oct 15, 2007, 02:13 AM
Aesthetically speaking, I can see doublesabers on acrofighters. If only for looks, I'd support them getting A rank access to it (definitely not S rank, though).

Fortefighters are more heavy weapon specialist, and since videogames insist that attack points are more important than any other stat, this makes us the best hunters. Seeing how we specialize in heavy weapons, doublesabers (bo-staffs) wouldn't go too well with us. I'm not against us getting it, mind, I'm just not for it either.

VanHalen
Oct 15, 2007, 02:13 AM
Fortefighter with a doublesaber?! I'll never degrade myself with a puny Fighgunner weapon!

/Fortefighter elitism

Garanz-Baranz
Oct 15, 2007, 02:15 AM
On 2007-10-15 00:13, VanHalen wrote:
Fortefighter with a doublesaber?! I'll never degrade myself with a puny Fighgunner weapon!

/Fortefighter elitism



>.> Why is it degrading then? tell me that.

VanHalen
Oct 15, 2007, 02:16 AM
Its a joke post.

Don't worry I don't really think like that :3

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2007-10-15 00:17 ]</font>

Miyuki-chan
Oct 15, 2007, 02:29 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:50, Ian-KunX wrote:
Double Sabers would make absolutely no sense with the AF playstyle, or with their current weapon selection.

Rifles would likewise make no sense on FI.

If anyone else got DSes, it should be WT. God knows that class needs all the help it can get.



We Wartechers do not need the so called "help" of a Doublesaber, or as Chuck called it "Noobsaber".


On 2007-10-15 00:03, NIloklives wrote:

[b]On 2007-10-14 23:33, Garanz-Baranz
Posibly no, thing is, why does Protranser need the Force levels when the ONLY force weapon it get's is the Bow?


cause you have to earn your goddamned wings. protranser is an awesome class. if you have to run HSM 3 times more what difference does it make to you?

Anyway, look at how much they've changed the classes around in AoI. the rebalancing really took a bite out of the fighgunner class.

fortefighter can now use almost all melee weapons at S rank, and with the upcoming patches will even be able to infectlarge enemies with their handguns

fortegunner can now use full combos on single handed weapons, which will up their melee capablility to ridiculous levels for being a gunner class. they also are the second best trap users in the game.

fortetecher has exclusive access to lvl 31+ attack techs...and is still the only class that can use rods...enough said

guntecher now is a good healer, can actualy make use of attack techs and is second in buff/debuff with the only class beating them being Acrotecher. they were also given access to S rank bows.

Wartecher now can make full use of two handed weapons, can melee and cast from one palette slot, can better use cards bows and hand guns, got access to S rank wands, can now use swords and makes significantly better use of attach techs. The HUmar is back.

Protranser got a massive atp boost and can use all of their weapons at S rank.

Acrotechers and acro fighters are now, so there isn't much to be said about them, but they're the only classes that ca use the new weapon types at S rank, get really good stats and Acrotecher gets exclusive access to lvl 31 buffs and debuffs.

Fighgunner got the same basic upgrades everyone else did and got access to the new weapons like everyone else, no new S ranks, no significant changes to gameplay or clear understanding of a particular role in the group, but they got to keep exclusive rights to DSes. seriously...they got enough upgrades to keep things fair and no one else gets to play with their "defining" weapon. we've already got people leaving fighgunner for AF and FF, if DSes were more accessible, with fortegunner able to melee well, we might see a lot of the more gunner oriented fighs move that way too for the cost down on xbows and mechs...the town of fighville would be nearly a ghost town.

I think its fine as it is



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NIloklives on 2007-10-15 00:07 ]</font>


Wartechers are getting Swords? THAT sounds like the kind of help we could use (but certainly not need since all the changes make us quite a bit stronger anyway).

physic
Oct 15, 2007, 02:40 AM
i think doublesaber is kept from fortefighters because it might be too hax, at least with teh old system. being able to hit so many mobs so many times with good % weaps and skills would make it the new daggers. of course now, who knows, the new axe is hax if its anything like offline, ff will only use most other weapons for playstyle and kicks. the reg attacks are AE and do knockdown on 2 out of 3 reg attacks, and the new ws, well offline its insane, i hear it is online as well.

Niloklives
Oct 15, 2007, 02:43 AM
ws?

Gen2000
Oct 15, 2007, 02:51 AM
I wouldn't really care if other classes could use them or not, I probably still end up using my other weapons waaaay more anyways. Dbl Saber is pretty weak overall compared to other melee options (post-AoI Tornado Dance and Absolute Dance could save it though). Nowadays I basically only use em on my FiG currently to break up the boredom of owning everything with Majarra. I didn't pick FiG for Double Sabers.

physic
Oct 15, 2007, 02:57 AM
ehh ws= weaponskill, PA rather, my mistake

Niloklives
Oct 15, 2007, 03:02 AM
On 2007-10-15 00:51, Gen2000 wrote:
I wouldn't really care if other classes could use them or not, I probably still end up using my other weapons waaaay more anyways. Dbl Saber is pretty weak overall compared to other melee options (post-AoI Tornado Dance and Absolute Dance could save it though). Nowadays I basically only use em on my FiG currently to break up the boredom of owning everything with Majarra. I didn't pick FiG for Double Sabers.



While im happy to hear you don't use DSes like they're the only weapon fighgunners have, double sabers do have their uses. they're incredible good at taking out groups of small enemies since they hit 4 at a time. as a result I actually kill off smaller enemies like polty and badira en masse faster than my team mates can kill 1 or 2 at a time. I'm not saying the weapon is the reason to pick the class, because it isn't, but don't downplay the weapon either.

Zael
Oct 15, 2007, 03:06 AM
I think Double Sabers are perfect being Fighgunner exclusive.

ashley50
Oct 15, 2007, 03:18 AM
don't complain...

if you want to use a specific weapon. Change to that class.

Eleina
Oct 15, 2007, 03:45 AM
On 2007-10-15 01:06, Zael wrote:
I think Double Sabers are perfect being Fighgunner exclusive.



Yea if you see someone using it you know he's a figgy and thus can instantly remove hiim XD..
Not to mention that double sabers are insanely weak so fF doesn't really need to use it lol.

Niloklives
Oct 15, 2007, 03:51 AM
DSes are only weak when used improperly. as someone who plays the class often and can say beyond doubt that they do it damn well...I can say that DSes are good weapons if you when to use them. the reason why everyone hates fighgunners and DSes is not because of the class or the weapon, but the majority of the playerbase that tries to gravity dance a jarba. if you don't know how to use a weapon of course it will seem weak, but as a fighgunner, I really only use a few weapon types and doublesabers are one of them.

Zael
Oct 15, 2007, 03:53 AM
On 2007-10-15 01:45, Eleina wrote:

On 2007-10-15 01:06, Zael wrote:
I think Double Sabers are perfect being Fighgunner exclusive.



Yea if you see someone using it you know he's a figgy and thus can instantly remove hiim XD..
Not to mention that double sabers are insanely weak so fF doesn't really need to use it lol.



Yeah. I literally let my friend indefinitely borrow my 50% Nightwalker set :/

physic
Oct 15, 2007, 04:08 AM
lot of pointless hate for double sabers apparently. You guys really think your better than someone because they sue a double saber? which hits multi mobs fairly fast for multi hits? i think yall are all just riding the wave of "haha doublesaberz are noobz eq" makes you seem noobish yourselves. I dont even really like them, but that doesnt mean they are useless.

darthplagis
Oct 15, 2007, 04:08 AM
if the vets remember PSO the dblsbr was actually aimed at rangers more than hunters.......... the hunters had the swords and daggers where as the rangers had the dblsbr and spear/lance/poking stick.

now translate that over to PSU class system.

hunters (forte fighters) who use the big ATP hit weapons dont get dblsbrs as they dont need them....... the ATP from the class as well as the ATP of the weapons makes them more suited to one on one, up close and major damage. now does that sound like the kind of style that would ever use a fast super choppy oar, which requires high ATA to use, as its a fast multi hit rather than slow powerful strike?

rangers (figunners) who use double sabers and twin sabers up close need the speed rather than the power as they generally (this is the dividing line between the true figunner and the noobgunner) soften the foe with shots from twin hand guns then close in with the death blow from the mele weapons. yes we do get access to the slower mele weapons but they are as backup for those nasty bullet resistent monsters that need raw power rather than multiple fast but rather weak hits from say dblsbrs or twin sabers.

now to go giving a hunter (fortefight or wartec) access to a weapon they probably will be to implement yet will fall short because of lacking the back up weapons to support them seems silly lmost as bad as tech protransers. (and transers 'could' use them but not really, given what i just typed a few lines ago)

in all i suppose it comes down to people being able to use it and people actually using it as it is intended.

Zael
Oct 15, 2007, 04:10 AM
On 2007-10-15 02:08, physic wrote:
lot of pointless hate for double sabers apparently. You guys really think your better than someone because they sue a double saber?


Nah. There's other reasons.

Gen2000
Oct 15, 2007, 04:21 AM
Yes Double Saber can hit multiple enemies with its normal attacks and that is indeed cool and unique for the weapon (I guess), but really this in PSUv1, normal attacks for boxes onry (basically besides the few normal attack finishers after PA spam). Melee PAs from almost any other weapon will destroy the same enemies much more quickly.


i think yall are all just riding the wave of "haha doublesaberz are noobz eq" makes you seem noobish yourselves.

No, stop assuming things like this.

physic
Oct 15, 2007, 04:35 AM
i disagree, daggers got rebalanced because they hit like 8 or 9 times extremely fast, double sabers also do this, daggers offer up almost no atp, but the more your base atp is, the better it is to strike quickly. because your getting ((900+200)x1.2 shifta)x pa modifier)x weapon ele) x number of hits. so if you can use the first double saber pa to hit 3 enemies from the first hit, 6 times in six seconds, your probably gonna way outdo hitting something 3 times with only say 100 or 200 more atp in that equation. I think they gave this to figunner to make figunner cooler, as well as the fact that it shows up a lot of other weapons the more base atp you get. its like imagine if a ff could use mechs, theyd just get behind enemies and destroy them.

this idea that FF is supposed to be a slow fighter isnt really on point, FF is supposed to be the best at melee, figunners are supposed to be balance with guns, access to level 20 bullets mechs twins and xbow is what makes them different. i can use A ranks to do just as much damage as figh with s ranks if not more usually. the idea that FF is supposed to be slow is foolish.

As to stop assuming things, there have been many posts in this thread thats whole argument and reasoning is lolz figunner doublesaber noobz, so its not really an assumption. its basically a go to joke that people use an argument to say that figh or doublesabers suck without any real basis.

Niloklives
Oct 15, 2007, 06:24 AM
rather, it's a cop out...they use it in place of an argument because they don't have one.

McLaughlin
Oct 15, 2007, 06:51 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:05, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
let's be honest. Any fortefighter, wouldn't use the weapon because they have S rank other crap, A rank doublesabers would be a waste.

And Acrofighter wouldn't use it either because it completely ruins their 1 handed versatility with S rank shadoogs.

There is no other class that would even consider using it, so there's no need for any other class to have it. It's really that simple.

THE JACKEL



For once, I agree.

And Fortefighters have too much ATP to use a Double Saber.

Serephim
Oct 15, 2007, 08:56 AM
On 2007-10-14 23:05, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
let's be honest. Any fortefighter, wouldn't use the weapon because they have S rank other crap, A rank doublesabers would be a waste.

And Acrofighter wouldn't use it either because it completely ruins their 1 handed versatility with S rank shadoogs.

There is no other class that would even consider using it, so there's no need for any other class to have it. It's really that simple.

THE JACKEL



True. It also could have been for balance purposes.

Can you SERIOUSLY fathom Fortefighter strength + Tornado Strike? It would be annoying to everybody.

Shinou
Oct 15, 2007, 09:38 AM
The way I see it like a few others said FF is the heavy weapon class. While Figh is more of an agile type. FF are getting a lot more S ranks in AoI and yet it seems they still want more or should I say they want to use every single melee weapon. Well not all FF's are like that some are satisfied with what they have now.

Also like physic said I don't understand all the double saber hate. I'm a figh I use my DS's here and there. Do I spam it? No but if I did I guess that would make me a noob for using a weapon ST has given to the class I play. Seems whoever spams the same weapon over and over is consider'd a noob, but I like how that rule doesnt apply to any other class.

lethe
Oct 15, 2007, 10:32 AM
I think double sabers are fine being exclusive to FG, and all this FG hate has some truth to it TO AN EXTENT, as in the ppl who become FG becuase they can use a doublesaber and have no skill whatsoever in being that class, ill admit i do have alittle worry when i invite a FG into my party becuase i dont know if theyre actually in it becuase the class or the doublesaber, the ones who are in it for the doublesabers you can tell right off the bat, theyll charge into huge groups of enemies that do massive damage to them and then get mad at the force for not healing them in the 3 seconds they lived, the ones who went FG for the class go into big groups of smaller enemies like badira and what not, use the doublesaber or other sort of multi target fast hitting weapon on them and effectivley aid the team in taking out the enemies while taking minimal damage themselves, when the same group of enemies come that killed the other FG they pull out their xbow, mechs, or twin handguns and effectivley aid the team in killing that group, a good FG knows his/her limitations and those are the ones i respect, the ones that just did it for the doublesaber and have no idea how to effectivley play as that class and get mad when you try to give them pointers are the ones i have no respect for....as well as the ones that override protransers traps...
that was a long rant now wasnt it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

Zorafim
Oct 15, 2007, 10:35 AM
People seem to be under the impression that twin weapons are fast. I wonder where they got that impression from...

lethe
Oct 15, 2007, 10:49 AM
On 2007-10-15 08:35, Zorafim wrote:
People seem to be under the impression that twin weapons are fast. I wonder where they got that impression from...


the swishy swinging noises they make http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Jaspaller
Oct 15, 2007, 10:55 AM
Doublesabers on Fortefighter? There would be a huge load of 0's on them. Fighgunner is fine with them, although I wish that Fighgunner got Rifles as well so it would be closer to my RAmar...

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 01:02 PM
Ok i got it. I give up. you guys win. But remember i was only talking about the looks.

McLaughlin
Oct 15, 2007, 01:13 PM
On 2007-10-15 07:38, Shinou wrote:
Also like physic said I don't understand all the double saber hate. I'm a figh I use my DS's here and there. Do I spam it? No but if I did I guess that would make me a noob for using a weapon ST has given to the class I play. Seems whoever spams the same weapon over and over is consider'd a noob, but I like how that rule doesnt apply to any other class.



To be more specific, it doesn't seem to apply to any Technics.

Why do I play Fighgunner? S Rank Sabers and Twin Sabers (they are NOT called fucking Musashi's, Shiro). Double Sabers? Cool, I'll use those too. You're just being asinine if you ridicule me for using a tool at my disposal.

Besides, I thought everyone was all BIG NUMBAR crazy. Double Sabers don't do that. Though, they might with Fortefighter ATP, which would make them broken, which would incite a nerf from Sega, which would make the already-weak-in-Fighgunner-hands weapon even worse.

We're there to wipe out the small stuff so you can go batshit crazy on the big mobs. Stop trying to make us redundant and do your own job.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Obsidian_Knight on 2007-10-15 11:15 ]</font>

Zorafim
Oct 15, 2007, 01:13 PM
Someone admitting defeat on the internet? How can this be?

Shiro_Ryuu
Oct 15, 2007, 02:15 PM
On 2007-10-15 08:55, Jaspaller wrote:
Doublesabers on Fortefighter? There would be a huge load of 0's on them. Fighgunner is fine with them, although I wish that Fighgunner got Rifles as well so it would be closer to my RAmar...



Well, a Newman FF has more ATA than a Beast FI as far as I know, so it wouldn't be that bad. And FI with Rifles would be silly since I thought FI was supposed to be more Hunter than Ranger. >.>

I think Longbows would be better, since its more Hunter-ish than a Rifle, but still, its a Force thing.

Rizen
Oct 15, 2007, 02:32 PM
If Acrofighters got Double Saber, this game would some serious rebalancing. I'm being 100% honest here.

If Fortefighters got Double Saber, it wouldn't be so bad. Their accuracy would balance out the damage output.

blkbeast
Oct 15, 2007, 03:35 PM
On 2007-10-14 22:55, Umberger wrote:
Fortetechers are also the only class to get A+S Rod access. It's just a little perk that will keep people interested in the class I guess. =p

little perk that will keep people interested in the class individuality is all sega wants

Aries2384
Oct 15, 2007, 03:58 PM
Why does everyone want rifles on fighgunners? Use a fortegunner if thats what you want. The Fg class is about versatility, IE. Not advanced in any particular area. If you want to specialize in ranged. Go gunner, If you want big damage, go Fighter. Fg is a hybrid class thats meant to fill in small gaps in the party areas. Its a fun class where you can run in and out of the fighting, keeping pace all the while. You have traps, twin pistols, mech guns, high speed weapons. Its a fun class. What you are saying... might as well give everyone double saber abilities. The class is fine the way it is. Stop trying to make an ultimate class.

Sgt_Shligger
Oct 15, 2007, 04:04 PM
Fortegunners and Fortefighters sharing? Sounds like Protranser.

Turb0
Oct 15, 2007, 04:05 PM
I'm just gonna throw my opinion out there. Having been a fighgunner for about 30 levels I haven't really experienced these people who automatically think I'm a n00b. I have about 10-15 weapons I switch between but double sabers are one of my main melee weapons. They're not all I use but I do use them a lot and not just because they look cool, they do pretty decent damage as well. I've hit criticals of 1700+ w/ gravity dance (the last hit w/ ~6 hits before that) and my nightwalkers are only 18%. Like I said, they're not the only weapon I use: If we're up against Jarbas, I'll debuff them and then shoot them with my deathmakers/drumline, but for the smaller enemies I mostly use double sabers.

Adding to my n00b factor, (apparently) is tornado dance which I got just to have fun and mess around with. People may think I'm n00bish seeing me tornado dance everywhere in easy missions but that's why I got it, I don't care.

In reading this thread, it's slightly annoying when people tell other people how to play the game. Obviously there's a difference between someone who isn't helping at all and someone who can do good damage/help the team, but if they're helping let them play however they want. [/semi-rant]

Jaspaller
Oct 15, 2007, 04:22 PM
On 2007-10-15 12:15, Shiroryuu wrote:

On 2007-10-15 08:55, Jaspaller wrote:
Doublesabers on Fortefighter? There would be a huge load of 0's on them. Fighgunner is fine with them, although I wish that Fighgunner got Rifles as well so it would be closer to my RAmar...



Well, a Newman FF has more ATA than a Beast FI as far as I know, so it wouldn't be that bad. And FI with Rifles would be silly since I thought FI was supposed to be more Hunter than Ranger. >.>

I think Longbows would be better, since its more Hunter-ish than a Rifle, but still, its a Force thing.



How many people actually play a newman fortefighter though lol, not many. It's just wishful thinking and it's not going to happen but like I said I wouldn't mind having it closer to my old RAmar.

Rashiid
Oct 15, 2007, 04:24 PM
was i the only one that noticed him/her saying figuns need a rifle lawl?

Aries2384
Oct 15, 2007, 04:27 PM
Actually, if you had read any of the thread(Besides the opening statement) you would have noticed that the rifle comment has been discussed at length. Bottom line, if you want a rifle, be a Fortegunner. FG's just don't have the accuracy to back it up.

February
Oct 15, 2007, 04:45 PM
On 2007-10-15 13:58, Aries2384 wrote:
Why does everyone want rifles on fighgunners?



I'm a Figh, and I say we don't need Rifles at all. It would make the class a little too untouchable. Balance is the key, not making your favorite class the most superior.

Of course, I am aware everyone thinks their class already is superior and sucks compared to them.

Chuck_Norris
Oct 15, 2007, 04:54 PM
On 2007-10-14 23:39, ChaosAngel92 wrote:

On 2007-10-14 23:37, chuck_norris wrote:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/ljkkjlcm9/AFFIcompare.jpg
O_o

Does that thing say fortefighter gets level30 bullets?! i thought we only got level20.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chuck_norris on 2007-10-14 23:38 ]</font>


fortefighter?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChaosAngel92 on 2007-10-14 23:39 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChaosAngel92 on 2007-10-14 23:40 ]</font>


Ah never mind. I read it wrong. FIGUNNER gets 30 bullets. Sorry for going off topic.

Sgt_Shligger
Oct 15, 2007, 05:17 PM
On 2007-10-15 14:22, Jaspaller wrote:

On 2007-10-15 12:15, Shiroryuu wrote:

On 2007-10-15 08:55, Jaspaller wrote:
Doublesabers on Fortefighter? There would be a huge load of 0's on them. Fighgunner is fine with them, although I wish that Fighgunner got Rifles as well so it would be closer to my RAmar...



Well, a Newman FF has more ATA than a Beast FI as far as I know, so it wouldn't be that bad. And FI with Rifles would be silly since I thought FI was supposed to be more Hunter than Ranger. >.>

I think Longbows would be better, since its more Hunter-ish than a Rifle, but still, its a Force thing.



How many people actually play a newman fortefighter though lol, not many. It's just wishful thinking and it's not going to happen but like I said I wouldn't mind having it closer to my old RAmar.



Go check people's sigs/profiles, you'll find quite a few newman fortefighters. An awesome pal of mine plays a newman fortefighter himself.

February
Oct 15, 2007, 05:28 PM
I've done the Newman FF thing, And I'm pretty sure Keiko Seisha has too. We're out there, and there's more than you'd think.

Niloklives
Oct 15, 2007, 05:39 PM
the real reasona fighs don't need (and wouldn't even benefit from) rifles:

Rifles do SE4 which unless we're talking about burn, come these next few patches...will be extremely overrated. with lvl 21+ xbow bulets, fighs will be able to infect a svaltus with ease.

most anything you want to stick aside from virus, you have a trap for as a figh

shadoogs will be applying a fair amount of SEs as well and stick SE3 at A rank...and A rank shadoogs fire in bursts of 3. freezing and burning ect while on the move AND attacking...

the rifle campaign is ridiculous.

BTW RAmar was a broken class in PSO. the way that game worked with the weapon selection and their ability to provide support, they were just too much. in their place the got Guntechers which I think with the changes made in AoI, and a much more balanced version of that class.

I swear the way some people think, we may as well have a single class that could just use everything at once...of course then the argument for variety would run this game into the ground.

The classes are fine as they are. I think ST did a much better job with balancing the classes this time around. at this point our only choices are to keep playing or quit.

Ashkahn
Oct 15, 2007, 05:47 PM
I'm a Fortefighter, and I think we're just fine without Double Sabers.

Sure, Fighgunners can slaughter hordes of little monsters with one, but when it comes right down to it, we've got the raw ATP to make our melee skills count against large enemies. Fighgunner is more about utility with hit-and-run tactics, and the Double Saber really compliments that, allowing decent power with the Fighgunner's base ATA.

Besides, a Double Saber on a Fortefighter would either be really overpowered or just miss all the time. While both outcomes would be comedic, they have no place in PSU.

VanHalen
Oct 15, 2007, 06:18 PM
On 2007-10-15 15:17, Sgt_Shligger wrote:


Go check people's sigs/profiles, you'll find quite a few newman fortefighters. An awesome pal of mine plays a newman fortefighter himself.



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/blush.gif

Newmans?! In my Fortefighter?

Its more likely than you think http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2007-10-15 16:19 ]</font>

Miyuki-chan
Oct 15, 2007, 07:02 PM
I like to switch between Fortefighter and Wartecher for variety's sake. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif
Being a newearl FF is a blast! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

SStrikerR
Oct 15, 2007, 07:10 PM
On 2007-10-14 23:26, ChaosAngel92 wrote:
Wartecher with Double Sabers? Sounds funky, there is something that dosnt match. Now i need a question answered. Obiously all this discussion started beetwen a friend and me because i wanted to recreate my RAmarl from PSO. Those veterans as me know that they can use some double sabers. My question is, Fighgunner is like RAmarl from PSO? Or its more like RAmar?

its more like huamr.......humars could use basically all melee weapons, and ten mostly all guns except rifles and shots.
ramars can use rifles and shots. can fighgunners? no

ChaosAngel92
Oct 15, 2007, 09:22 PM
I incist okay!!! IIIII GGGGIIIVVVEEEEE UPPPPPP!!!!!!!!! I juat want to recreate my RAmarl form PSO. But its fine i got it. (Now all anti ragol commuinity will flame me with the nice words "GO BACK TO PSO YOU NOOB!")

DurakkenX
Oct 15, 2007, 11:00 PM
Garanz your argument that it is a Hybrid class is really not based on good logic... most hybrid fighting styles are better than pure ones when it comes right down to it and even often are able to use new techniques more often than pure style, at least in real life.

ChaosAngel92 Fighgunner is most like a HUcast/HUcaseal imo, but if you are going to put it in the RA category it's more like a RAcast. HUmar, HUnewearls, RAmars, and RAmarls are more akin to Wartecher and Guntecher

as far as the argument that the new weapons are being dispersed between all the classes...look at what classes get what weapon. It's not like there isn't a pattern easily distinguishable...

engelsein
Oct 15, 2007, 11:41 PM
everyone is so concentrated on how to play that they have forgoten to just...play

Aries2384
Oct 16, 2007, 08:41 PM
On 2007-10-15 21:41, engelsein wrote:
everyone is so concentrated on how to play that they have forgoten to just...play


Indeed Engelsein. I do agree with you. But, for S&G's, consider this. I work full-time and I go to college full-time. I get maybe.. 1-2 hours a day to play if I'm tired (which is alot). When I get some idiot who wanders in the party and dies without a scape or several morons in the party that haven't even bothered to TRY to learn their class and a otherwise 10 minute run turns into a 20 minute run, or I don't get rank at all... How is that fair to me or any others in the same situation. Yes it is JUST a game, but it's something I choose to spend my time on. Anyway, to validate me posting in this thread. You shouldn't have to be "cookie-cut" as I like to call it in any games. So what if Newman FF's have alil less ATP and DFP than beasts. We shouldn't be confined to the playstyles that everyone thinks we should be.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aries2384 on 2007-10-16 18:41 ]</font>

DarthLasek
Oct 17, 2007, 12:44 AM
well fighgunners need something unique like FF and axes...and howcome GT gets to use S rank twin guns but not fortegunner? its just a tradeoff thats all

Schubalts
Oct 17, 2007, 06:42 AM
PT gets axes, too.